cc limit for L plate car drivers

[GN1NiteStnd]

Hey do you guys reckon that learner car drivers should have a cc limit?
From step one they get to drive cars as powerful as they can buy. And there has been a lot of deaths lately.

[madboy]

Quite a bit of debate about this in the thread on the Hastings teenagers. I can only speak from experience. The significant crashes I've had were in my parents Honda Civic (1.5l 66kw) x 2 or 3, and my first MX-5 (1.6l 88kw) where that got effectively written off twice.

Strangely outside of racing I never crashed my 1.6 turbo 323 (120kw odd), nor my 1.8 turbo 323 (140kw odd), nor my heavily modded turbo Lancer (200kw+ at the wheels).

IMHO a cc limit is not the answer. I didn't calm down until common sense arrived with maturity (some debate is still going on there). How do you teach common sense?

[bugjuice]

fuk yeah.. might reduce a few deaths.. might..
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=12717

[SpankMe]

It should be restricted by horsepower. Also they should not be allowed to own a modified car.

Either they get some sort of restriction or remove the 250cc restriction. The current situation is just completely biased. More people can be killed by a learner cager than a leaner biker.

[Odin]

IMHO a cc limit is not the answer. I didn't calm down until common sense arrived with maturity (some debate is still going on there). How do you teach common sense?

I agree to some extent. the lesser cc rating is not going to stop all crashes but i dont think it would be an all bad think to impliment. Though it should not just be based on cc but more a relationship between cc and weight.
I think the lincensing age should be 18 but from 16 - 18 you can drive 50cc mopeds.
I also think a compulsory wetweather/advanced drivers cource is needed.
And generally a bit more "complet" driver trainning required both for car and MC.

I didn't get my license (car and MC) till i was 20 and have never crashed in/on anything other then my bicycle. :innocent:

[Motu]

It won't make a scrap of difference,same as our 250 limit keeps learners off fast bikes - a small capacity car is still very capable of serious killing speed...the Pukekohe crash last year was just an old Civic.If you want to limit them to a small low powered car they will have to start a whole new importing program - in Japan small 600cc micro cars are very popular in the cities,these will be ideal for learners.Honda Civics,Daihatsu Charades,Toyota Starlets????? I drive these things every day - they are NOT slow,and certainly won't stop young guys killing themselves and their ''friends''.

[unhingedlizard]

i had an idea regarding this. havent thought it through completely but wondered about making the age limit higher (say 18) but allow kids that become prefects or have high grades etc, basically good school performance get thier licence a year earlier.

Just random thoughts.

[ajturbo]

It should be restricted by horsepower. Also they should not be allowed to own a modified car.

Either they get some sort of restriction or remove the 250cc restriction. The current situation is just completely biased. More people can be killed by a learner cager than a leaner biker.

now we are talking!!!
a hp limit......
this IS the only wat to go... and reduce the age !!!

[Motu]

How much HP is your limit?....now go and find cars of that HP and see what you come up with - I'm picking you won't find cars available in that HP range...and if you do,then they'll be the ones that are already killing our youth.

[ajturbo]

How much HP is your limit?....now go and find cars of that HP and see what you come up with - I'm picking you won't find cars available in that HP range...and if you do,then they'll be the ones that are already killing our youth.

bugger and i thought i had ALL the answers!!:no:

[Lou Girardin]

.the Pukekohe crash last year was just an old Civic.''.

Integra Type R.
He boasted of regularly seeing over 200 in it. Say 170 minus the bullshit factor. Sure even small modern cars can reach high speeds, but it takes longer to get there than in some 250 - 300 hp shopping basket.
Power to weight ratio is the ticket. Use the Holden Sunbird as an example - no power, lots of weight.
Make the dumbarses drive shit cars like I had to.

[oldfart]

Hey do you guys reckon that learner car drivers should have a cc limit?
From step one they get to drive cars as powerful as they can buy. And there has been a lot of deaths lately.

Hell yes. Motu has some good points & the 250 restriction on bikes has always been a bit silly when you compared the likes of "RG & TZR 250s" to, say, 500 single 4 strokes. Also Motu points out the real facts like 1300's go quick etc etc. Despite this, some form of limitation, say 1000cc car has got to be better than letting 17 year old teens loose in a turbo like Hastings. Make a law & fine tune it when the flaws get thrown up

[unhingedlizard]

the funny thing is, people will make a law, and when that doesnt work, frather than trying something allong thoush lines, they bin it for....NOTHING.. no back up, nadda.

[Timber020]

Hey, sweet idea, Me and my brother can sell our 1300cc little car to a learner.

Sure it will be pushing a shade under 500hp and only weighs 700kgs but at least tubular frame will make a nicely framed box to put the bodies in. Kit cars rock.

Power to weight is the way to go. CC size means SFA. I couldnt get insurance on a 69 186 kingswood because it was over 2 litre. Got a 1.8 celica, no problem. WTF? the holden only did 70mph but the celica did 180kmph.

[unhingedlizard]

trouble is, you can get a crap power to weight for a learner car. then all the kiddies remove all the seats, seat belts, AIRBAGS, and other assortted safety gear to save weight. Result, in a crash they are still more at risk.

I grew up driving small crappy cars and the mentality you get will them is that is takes you so long to gain speed, you well do anything to keep it, anyone who has ridden a 125cc sportsbike for any length of time will know what i am talking about.

I think the most effective method would be to up the age limit. What better time to give a kid a high performance steel box that can do 100kph than the same time they are pressured in school to experiment with drink and drugs?
In saying that, i dont think there is any hard and fast way to solve the problem but a start would be to realise that being allowed to drive is not a right. Its a privilage, and like every privilage it comes with responsabilitys.

[myvice]

CC restrictions don’t work on bikes, why would they work on cars?
There is away around every rule, learner rider? Want to go fast? Aprilla RS 250...
Or get a 600 sports bike and borrow a 250 for the test...
Anything the powers that be, try will be circumvented at the first available chance!
Had a mate (calls when he needs something) ask to borrow my work hack to get his learner license, not a prob, I'll keep your R6 till you get your full, or you can sell it and SORT YOUR FUCKING LIFE OUT!
Now he won’t talk to me. YAY!
He will get one off someone else, bin the R6, every body’s fault but his cause he's such a good rider!
Car learners will do the same thing, borrow a 1000cc Micra and the twin turbo will be out tomorrow, pass or fail.
Cars can be impounded, so? Daddy will help!
Put the deaths down to Darwinism if you want, it’s the innocent victims I feel for.
The parents of the kid who was killed in Pukekohe could have taken his keys off him, he had told them what he was doing and they did nothing!
Daryll did that I'd kick his ass, ban him from driving for a month and make him do track days and defensive driving courses! (Will be anyway)
But you cant help every one, I know my son will speed, it's in his blood from all sides of the family. When he's a newby on the road he'll be out with me so I can curb his thirst till he knows what he's doing a first at least!
He can have my 1500 Alfa 33, sad, but still a fast little car! I'm not teaching him to drive, there are trained teachers to do this but he will be going down lots of gravel roads with me, Puke track days, and will get the same treatment on 2 wheels!
Maybe it will help, have to wait and see...

[texmo]

CC ratings are the most useless thing ever though up..... ok lets give a 15 year old a learners bike licence and give him an aprilla rs250 sweet he will last long. It should all be done by power to weight ratio and no more than a certain amount of HP, say 35 for bikes and 120 for cars.

[Drunken Monkey]

Hey do you guys reckon that learner car drivers should have a cc limit?
From step one they get to drive cars as powerful as they can buy. And there has been a lot of deaths lately.

No, but I think the cc limit on rider licenses is a load of old cobblers as well.
An HP or power/weight based system might be more sensible, but expensive to manage and possibly enforce.

[GNR]

to get your licence, you learn how to indicate for 3 secs, check blind spots, and fully stop and stop signs, but where do we learn how to get out of a dangerous skid?? or what effect gravel and slippery sufaces have....the answer is we don't, and thats the problem,
instead of putting cc ratings on cars, and movin the driving agew up to 18, why don't we teach people how to drive first, Ive done the pro-drive corse and skid car at ruapuna, and i think it should be made compulsy to at least go to them. you learn heaps, even tho i knew mosty of it coz of paddock racers :D, but most people don't get that oppunity,

If they moved the drivin age up to 18, it would be shit, Me and my mate who work together, wouldnt be able to. I wouldnt have my licence and he would be just gettin his learners.

haha, as i herd on the radio, one listener said, every "boyracer" caught doin stupid dangerous drivin should be made to pick up the dead bodys of the next crash, but thats gonig a bit far

[inlinefour]

its a good start. Everyone is carrying on about raising the age limit when its the type of cars that they are driving thats the problem...