Being seen at intersections

[sootie]

When I changed to my present style of bike, I noticed a big increase in the number of drivers who crawled off giveways & in to intersections directly in front of me. Apparently my older style of naked bike with the bouncy circular headlight was much more visible than a fully faired one with a longer focus unit intended to light the road far ahead and splatter as little light sideways as possible. (About one in six males has red/green colour impairment. Maybe this is a factor. Whatever; I want to be seen!)

I tried riding on full beam. That helped, but under some lighting conditions it did upset other motorists. I looked at fitting some LED strips. Am sure they work well, but on a streamlined full fairing it is hard to see how they may be mounted without looking a bit tacky. I now wear a high viz yellow vest. These are good, but something further seemed to be called for.

I now have a bit of electronic kit from "Visi" mounted, and a high viz strip across the bottom of the windsreen. The electronics leaves the two front 21Watt indicator bulbs permanently lit when no turning indication is being given. (Interestingly, many 1960s & 70s motorcycles had this designed in to their lighting circuitry.) The high viz strip makes me look like the law for maybe 100mS. Anyway, I can produce no figures, but I have to commend this approach to anyone who thinks cages pull out in front of them too often. I really only get the occasional smart arse trying to beat me now; and he has definitely seen me!

Maybe these ideas will be helpful to someone else,
Sootie

[Maha]

Some people don't even recognise lights and sirens...just have to live/survive with the fact that you have the superior road skills, and get on with it.
Being vigilant is the key phrase.

[sootie]

Some people don't even recognise lights and sirens...just have to live/survive with the fact that you have the superior road skills, and get on with it.
Being vigilant is the key phrase.

I guess that has to be most of it, but I can use a little help! ... t

[CookMySock]

The wide beamwidth projector lamps have a similar effect - that is they spread light around in a particularly inefficient manner as far as "seeing ahead" goes, but they are plainly and painfully evident from the front, even from a 45 degree angle, especially with a 6000K HID fitted hehehe.

Strongly agree that any high-colour-temperature on the front of a bike is a damn good thing, even if it's just LEDs. Slap a loud zorst on it to add sound to the mobile light show. :innocent:

[Gremlin]

Cars pull out in front of trucks, hell they pull out in front of cops (and worse) fire trucks.

Yes, I have extra lighting and I feel it makes a big difference, but given the above, assume nothing.

[iYRe]

I have a 100/90 headlight, and try and put myself in the road in positions I will be seen the most, and try to occupy no spot on the road longer than I need to (and for as long as I need to).

But.. the single biggest factor in being seen.. intimidate the hell out of people in cars. Cars get out of the way... literally..

[f2dz]

All great ideas to increase bike visibility. Not a fan of those LED strips myself though, but still, would make you stand out a lot more.

I ride with a hi vis on in the morning. I don't trust drivers as it is let alone when they've only just rolled outta bed and onto the motorway. I also ride with my high beam on the whole time too. Haven't had any complaints there yet as it's quite light out in the morning now and that negates a lot of its harsh brightness.

Kinda sucks that you have to take such measures in order to account for other road users ignorance and inability but thems the breaks as a motorcyclist eh!

[FJRider]

Cars pull out in front of trucks, hell they pull out in front of cops (and worse) fire trucks.



People turn in front of Police cars with "Lights and Sirens" ON ... whats the worry with another motorcycle ...

It's the effort ... and risk many are willing to make ... to reduce their journey by another twenty seconds ...

[wasiler]

I agree, I had a truck pull out in front of me once because they guy never saw me coming.
If you are really paranoid about people seeing you in intersections, you might want to look at a headlight modulator.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ko0-k8twgH0


http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/wasiler/fix1.jpg

[iYRe]

I agree, I had a truck pull out in front of me once because they guy never saw me coming.
If you are really paranoid about people seeing you in intersections, you might want to look at a headlight modulator.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ko0-k8twgH0




And bicyclists with flashing lights get abused because their lights are too bright (ie.. people saw it.. DOH!)


All great ideas to increase bike visibility. Not a fan of those LED strips myself though, but still, would make you stand out a lot more.

I ride with a hi vis on in the morning. I don't trust drivers as it is let alone when they've only just rolled outta bed and onto the motorway. I also ride with my high beam on the whole time too. Haven't had any complaints there yet as it's quite light out in the morning now and that negates a lot of its harsh brightness.

Kinda sucks that you have to take such measures in order to account for other road users ignorance and inability but thems the breaks as a motorcyclist eh!

I find them not to bad in the morning, its on the way home after a long day at work, when they are tired and thinking of nothing but dinner and a beer.. that's when they get real scary.

[Berries]

In the end you can be dressed in hi-viz from head to toe with a strobe effect helmet and pulsating 5,000 megagigawatt lighthouse lamp nailed to the front of your bike combined with a tsunami warning siren going at full tit whenever you exceed walking pace. People will still pull out on you. Best to ride accordingly. Wear all the safety gear you want but in the end it is what is between the ears that will save you, not the quality of your fluorescence.

[slofox]

Some people don't even recognise lights and sirens....

I watched two fire engines come wailing up the road last week, sirens on, flashing lights all over the place. Did the traffic get off the road to let them through? Did they shit! Just fucking carried on without the twitch of an eyelid. Fucking morons. If I'd been driving the appliance I would have been hard pressed not to ram the bastards. :angry:

[sootie]

I agree, I had a truck pull out in front of me once because they guy never saw me coming.
If you are really paranoid about people seeing you in intersections, you might want to look at a headlight modulator.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ko0-k8twgH0




Actually I designed one of these once, and a friend made a 100 or so of them and sold them locally. At that time (maybe early 80s) you could not buy them in NZ & my friend had seen them in the US. He gave me one which I still have. Once again, fully faired bikes don't throw a lot of light out the side, and it was not particularly effective when tried on my present bike. They probably sell better units now; my design pre-dated power FETs. (Starting to feel old here!)

[sootie]

In the end you can be dressed in hi-viz from head to toe with a strobe effect helmet and pulsating 5,000 megagigawatt lighthouse lamp nailed to the front of your bike combined with a tsunami warning siren going at full tit whenever you exceed walking pace. People will still pull out on you. Best to ride accordingly. Wear all the safety gear you want but in the end it is what is between the ears that will save you, not the quality of your fluorescence.

It does seem to help if they think it might be a cop bike for a fraction of a second or so though - Eh?

[awayatc]

for what it's worth...............
I have got 3 headlights on my Harley, and only one on my Aprilia...........
I definitely get a lot less hassle on the Harley...
(dressed in low vis black....)

[Berries]

It does seem to help if they think it might be a cop bike for a fraction of a second or so though - Eh?
We don't got no cop bikes down here. Too cold for them apparently.

[FJRider]

We don't got no cop bikes down here. Too cold for them apparently.

We do on the odd occasion ... I recall one hitting a tree in Greymouth, heading north (the long way) after a "mission" in the Southern lands ...

[sootie]

We don't got no cop bikes down here. Too cold for them apparently.

You youngsters are a worry. Dunedin used to crawl with Cop Bikes in the 1960s.
We have a few of their old bikes preserved up here at MOTAT.
I thought they were still using them down there .......

[Hitcher]

I really only get the occasional smart arse trying to beat me now; and he has definitely seen me!

I smell carnage. Never make assumptions about what drivers of other vehicles may see or think.

[SuperMac]

Move about on the road (well, lane :) ) width, move through the driver's field of view and end up as far away from him as possible: 'Z Line'

http://the-ride-info.blogspot.co.uk/2008/08/z-line-introduction.html

http://the-ride-info.blogspot.co.uk/2008/08/z-line-2-limits-on-vision.html

http://the-ride-info.blogspot.co.uk/2008/08/z-line-3-prepared-for-action.html

http://the-ride-info.blogspot.co.uk/2008/08/z-line-4-ouellet.html

http://the-ride-info.blogspot.co.uk/2008/08/z-line-4-how-it-helps.html

[sootie]

for what it's worth...............
I have got 3 headlights on my Harley, and only one on my Aprilia...........
I definitely get a lot less hassle on the Harley...
(dressed in low vis black....)

Interesting, and accurate I suspect. Unique & bold forward (&rear) lighting is also very helpful to other riders in a group riding situation FWIIW.

[chasio]

Move about on the road (well, lane :) ) width, move through the driver's field of view and end up as far away from him as possible: 'Z Line'

http://the-ride-info.blogspot.co.uk/2008/08/z-line-introduction.html

http://the-ride-info.blogspot.co.uk/2008/08/z-line-2-limits-on-vision.html

http://the-ride-info.blogspot.co.uk/2008/08/z-line-3-prepared-for-action.html

http://the-ride-info.blogspot.co.uk/2008/08/z-line-4-ouellet.html

http://the-ride-info.blogspot.co.uk/2008/08/z-line-4-how-it-helps.html

Good stuff, thanks. I do this and I reckon it makes a difference. But I don't assume it has worked, if you know what I mean. Keep an eye on their wheels...

[wingnutt]

yeh the goldwing I ride, came standard with 5 forward running lights and I was astounded to find I wasn't seen at times
by cagers and only my defensive thoughts kept me safe.

I added 2 aux 35 watt lights down low, and the effect was instant, am now seen, although it still pays to watch of course.

I also added for added comfort, 2 strip LED white lights, which I'm told stick out like the proverbial.

I'm told the low aux lights tend to triangulate, and its this that cagers see first.

[Tigadee]

But.. the single biggest factor in being seen.. intimidate the hell out of people in cars. Cars get out of the way... literally..

So you wear a gang patch too, do ya? :blip:

[mylodon]

i find it's best if people don't see and try and react to you. a lot of people get confused about how fragile motorcyclists are and try to compensate, or get cranky and try and block, imho it's better to just stay away from problem drivers and scoot past the nice ones. the only thing i don't want is for someone to run into me from behind. so having good rear lights/indication - about all. that's all anyone needs to see anyways. :)

[Berries]

the only thing i don't want is for someone to run into me from behind. so having good rear lights/indication - about all. that's all anyone needs to see anyways. :)
Totally agree. You can't do much about the ones behind you, but you should be able to anticipate most of what happens to the side and in front of you.

[DMNTD]

Totally agree. You can't do much about the ones behind you, but you should be able to anticipate most of what happens to the side and in front of you.

I tend to play the front brake lever to set off the brake light plus also ensure that I could scoot up the side the the vehicle ahead of me just in case

[Berries]

I don't stop.

[DMNTD]

I don't stop.

Best you check your brakes :sunny:

[sootie]

yeh the goldwing I ride, came standard with 5 forward running lights and I was astounded to find I wasn't seen at times
by cagers and only my defensive thoughts kept me safe.

I added 2 aux 35 watt lights down low, and the effect was instant, am now seen, although it still pays to watch of course.

I also added for added comfort, 2 strip LED white lights, which I'm told stick out like the proverbial.

I'm told the low aux lights tend to triangulate, and its this that cagers see first.

Wow, 5 forward lights & still invisible!
I guess the first & main message is that motorcyclist have to always be very very vigilant.
It seems a lot of riders are getting a second message though which is about playing the odds.
If cagers keep pulling out without seeing you; make yourself even more obvious in front & do whatever it takes.

[Berries]

Wow, 5 forward lights & still invisible!
More cars get pulled out on than bikes. Trucks get people pulling put on them, so do trains. As I said before, you can do all you want to make yourself look like a supernova but it won't work all the time. If it isn't going to work every time then you have to be ready to take evasive action every time, and if you are ready to take evasive action all the time, which we all should be, then I cannot see the point of getting all lit up.

[sootie]

More cars get pulled out on than bikes. Trucks get people pulling put on them, so do trains. As I said before, you can do all you want to make yourself look like a supernova but it won't work all the time. If it isn't going to work every time then you have to be ready to take evasive action every time, and if you are ready to take evasive action all the time, which we all should be, then I cannot see the point of getting all lit up.

I don't actually want to dodge people more than I have to, and this did happen for a time.

[cheshirecat]

Personally i thinks its asking for trouble if one relies on being seen, even if they eyeball you.

[mylodon]

i do want to say though -- and i've been all over nz -- this place is really quite good when it comes to bikes... not sure you can ask too much more from folks. i'd say if anything, it's all on the biker.

do rush hour through a California highway system, you'll understand... nz is paradise... the closest adrenaline rush you get here is the two way one-lane 100kph mountain roads. you are are basically going to die at some point, it's just rolling the dice...

[sootie]

I am having trouble with this constant reference to total reliance on being seen. Who has suggested this?
I seem to be reading: " I am such a good rider that I can dodge anything, and I don't need to make myself visible"
To this I say "b......t". The roll of the dice statement is much closer to reality.
The more I can load the dice in my favour, the better I like it.

[Berries]

I am having trouble with this constant reference to total reliance on being seen. Who has suggested this?
I seem to be reading: " I am such a good rider that I can dodge anything, and I don't need to make myself visible"
To this I say "b......t". The roll of the dice statement is much closer to reality.
The more I can load the dice in my favour, the better I like it.
I'd actually word it slightly differently, "I want to survive as a rider therefore I am going to consider myself invisible at all times and ride accordingly*" As soon as you throw gambling metaphors in to the mix you are alleviating responsibility from yourself as a rider. And in my view, relying on someone else to do the right thing is just going to lead to a whole lot of hurt.



*Unfortunately this cloak of invisibility approach does not work with the Police.

[Ocean1]

I am going to consider myself invisible at all times and ride accordingly

I try for "I'm going to consider that every other fucker is going take his best shot at taking me out given the slightest chance" and ride accordingly.

There's a limit to what I can do about opposing traffic on the open road, other than that very very few people get a shot at me.

[sootie]

Hi Berries,
I think I would explain my actual experience as:
I always try to use position, speed & direction to make it impossible for a car to hit me, but I recognise that I can make a misjudgement.
I had been getting it right, but too many vehicles were not seeing me & I took this as a warning to look further.
My bike was very legally visible, but I made it even more visible with side lights & a High Viz Strip.
I still ride the same way, but I do not have as many cars pulling out on me as I used to have.
I believe it was worth noticing that something could be inproved & doing something about it.
Maybe others may find this worth considering. Bikes are still being hit at intersections.

[CookMySock]

But.. the single biggest factor in being seen.. intimidate the hell out of people in cars. Cars get out of the way... literally..Damn right! I have literally had cars squeal their tires on a straight road trying to turn away from me because if the fright I gave them - a little OTT in that case, but the general principle applies. Polarise them, give them a few seconds to allow their feelings to rise and figure out where the left of their lane is, and then simply ride around them.

Similar principle with the huge 100W spotties across the front of the Hilux Surf - one flash of those mf, and noooo bitch is gunna fuck wit' chu now, boy!! :sunny:

[Berries]

I try for "I'm going to consider that every other fucker is going take his best shot at taking me out given the slightest chance" and ride accordingly.
Get a full face helmet so that you don't get recognised and I bet the problem goes away.

[Ocean1]

Get a full face helmet so that you don't get recognised and I bet the problem goes away.

It's the pink dayglo tutu, dude, just too damn recognisable.