Another police pursuit fatal....or just drunk teenagers being idiots......

[marty]

here's another one. how could the police have moderated or handled this any differently? like the hamilton pursuit fatal a couple of months ago, this crash was always going to happen - it was only a matter of how and when....




Teen driver faces manslaughter charge

FRIDAY , 02 JANUARY 2004

A 15-year-old boy was killed after a teenage driver, allegedly three times over the legal breath-alcohol limit, sped away from police and crashed his car in the Bay of Plenty town of Waihi early today.

The 17-year-old driver was remanded on bail today to reappear in Waihi District Court on January 15.

Police said two cars were seen travelling the wrong way down a street about 1.30am this morning.

One car stopped but the other sped off.

Eastern Waikato acting area commander, acting inspector John Kelly, said police called the police northern communications centre in Auckland to tell it the car had sped off.

The car crashed 13 seconds after that call was made.

"The officer barely had time to pursue the car," Mr Kelly said.

"The car had failed to take a corner which resulted in a fence post smashing through the front windscreen of the car, killing the front seat passenger.

Police said the driver fled the scene but was found later by police.

Mr Kelly said police were not chasing the car at speed and the car crashed less than 1km from where the two vehicles were first seen.

"There was no police chase as such and it was just unfortunate that this driver chose to drive in a manner which resulted in the death of one of his passengers," Mr Kelly said in a statement.

Waikato district commander, Superintendent Kelvin Powell, said the death was an "absolute tragedy," but followed stupid and dangerous alcohol-fuelled incidents in Waikato in the last few days.

They included bottles thrown at police, people riding on the bonnets and boots of cars, brawls at Raglan and drunken motorcyclists riding without helmets.

"We had a person fall off the boot of a car in Whangamata and sustain serious injuries."

He said the incidents all pointed to a wider issue of youth access to alcohol and the lack of responsibility being shown by many drinkers.

Mr Powell said his message was not only to teenager drinkers but also to parents.

"It is disappointing my staff are having to deal with such a wide array of incidents or matters where the single contributing factor is alcohol and to my mind there is a lack of responsibility being shown."

The Police Complaints Authority (PCA), Judge Ian Borrin, had been notified he, along with police, would investigate the tragedy, Mr Powell said.

Eight people died last year either during or immediately after a police car chase.

Judge Borrin last month said his office was investigating several police chases in which people died during the chase or just after.

Police had initiated a review of their pursuits policy about four or five months ago and the PCA would contribute towards that where possible.

[SPman]

Seems like drunk crash waiting to happen. Police presence could have spooked them but..so what. Tragic, but I don't think you can blame the cops for this one.

[What?]

Exactly. The coppers are not always the bad guys...

[wkid_one]

Saw the article on the news - and it could hardly be called a police chase....well unless you wish to stretch the truth to the point of breaking. Two cars driving like idiots - one stopped and one didn't and crashed. What were the police supposed to do???

The only thing that was tragic was that it was the passenger and not the driver that died. Why does that always happen?

[Coldkiwi]

perhaps part of the solution to that sort of thing is for the police to start lobbying the govt to raise the damn drinking age back to where it was??
I voted for labour last 2 times but by cripes, if I'd realised they were going to be pushing this sort of crap so heavily (incl. prostitution reform bill + civil liberties bill) I'd certainly have put my confidence elsewhere. next election I doubt I'll be voting for Queen Helen despite mny belief that she's the smartest politician we have (I mean, she sure as hell didn't get to PM by being the prettiest!)

[wkid_one]

Queen Helen despite mny belief that she's the smartest politician we have

Isn't that the scariest thought imaginable.....

[bluninja]

perhaps part of the solution to that sort of thing is for the police to start lobbying the govt to raise the damn drinking age back to where it was??
Why not go for abolition:banana: after all that will save the cost of the booze bus, and all the policing at these parties that get out of hand. Like a lot of other threads this is another example of socialist thinking :Pokey: if something is wrong it's the governments fault and they should fix it. Drinking at any age is about personal responsibility; and if you're old enough to drive, have sex, get married, even raise children, (or become a prostitute :Oops: ); then why shouldn't you be allowed to drink?

BTW last I knew the drink age was 18....this guy was 17, so raising the drink age wouldn't have worked for this case anyway.

I think on this one the police are being unfairly linked to the 'police chase' thing.

[James Deuce]

No such thing as a smart politician - rat cunning yes.

Anyone who wants to be a politician (and this includes all the 5 year olds who want to be PM one day) should be neutered and their tongue and larynx removed.

Only people who should be in power should be people who really don't want to be. People like that tend to do a good job and move on quickly.

Just my humble opinion of course.

Jim2

[marty]

I think on this one the police are being unfairly linked to the 'police chase' thing.


on the contrary - they are not being unfairly linked - they called in the pursuit, therefore it was a pursuit - even though they were 150 metres away at the time.

many people who had firm opinions on the whangarei pursuit/fatal are strangely quiet on this one, as it's not so obvious who is at fault.

[James Deuce]

on the contrary - they are not being unfairly linked - they called in the pursuit, therefore it was a pursuit - even though they were 150 metres away at the time.

many people who had firm opinions on the whangarei pursuit/fatal are strangely quiet on this one, as it's not so obvious who is at fault.

I'm guessing that drunk teenager qualifies for blame here.

Jim2

[marty]

so is it ok for police to pursue drunk teenagers?

[Lou Girardin]

I was vocal about the Whangarei chase, this one I'm not so sure of. On the face of it, I don't see how it could have been handled differently. The cops can't ignore things like this, but then the fine line between apprehending the offender and aggravating the situation comes into play.
Lou

[bluninja]

on the contrary - they are not being unfairly linked - they called in the pursuit, therefore it was a pursuit - even though they were 150 metres away at the time.

many people who had firm opinions on the whangarei pursuit/fatal are strangely quiet on this one, as it's not so obvious who is at fault.
Perhaps we should be asking if police are allowed to turn their flashing lights on:wacko: perhaps all police should be out of uniform too so as not to spook drivers into killing themselves and other people:doctor: I think someone driving 2 abreast the wrong way up a one way street before police intervention were likely to cause an accident sober or drunk. For me it's obvious who's at fault.

[James Deuce]

so is it ok for police to pursue drunk teenagers?

Sorry mate, I don't actually think that's the issue at all.

I think your statement should read, "It's not OK for teenagers (or anyone) to drive drunk."

It's also difficult to tell if the occupant of a vehicle is drunk, without stopping and testing them. Even if they are driving erratically or dangerously. I get the feeling that these kids would have killed themselves or someone else irrespective of Police involvement. Where do you draw the line mate? No Armed Offenders to Home Invasions involving firearms? Just in case a one of the invaders shoots someone?

There is a strong ethic throughout this board that it is OK for motorcyclists to break the law (a la radar detectors, jammers, and speeding) and there should be no consequences because we're better than all the other road users. I have to say that I am a little uncomfortable with it. You do the crime, you do the time and there should be no whining about it. Sometimes the wages of stupidity are death.

If you don't like the laws, or Police policy we get a shot at changing that every three years. Unfortunately we have a Government that is strongly into social engineering and are very good at presenting stats via media stories to give credence to a particular policy push. They have also had a reasonable amount of time to create images and policies that reinforce attitudes to deviant speed loving freaks like ourselves (and I do like it or I wouldn't own a bike) amongst the righteous and conservative citizens of NZ.

Mark my words. The Police will be taking the current bad publicity on the chin so they can come up with even more restrictive laws in regards to road use as a consequence of the actions of an irresponsible few. They have the support of the Labour coalition Government in this. It is no great conspiracy either.

[marty]

my point exactly. how do the cops know that it's drunk teenagers in the car? they can make an (educated) guess, but the reality it could be anyone. maybe it's stolen. maybe it's got a kidnapped rich kid in the boot. maybe the driver is a burglar and has just burgled your house. there cannot be a hard and fast rule about maximum speeds/manner of driving etc. i belive the responsibility remains with the pursuer, not with a remote comms centre or arbitrary rule - no matter how good the flow of information they are not on the spot. they don't tell cops whether or not they can arm themselves and whether or not to pull the trigger, so apart from being a moderating, suggesting influence, i can't see how they, or a rule, can 'control' the pursuit.

[James Deuce]

Sorry Marty.

It's hard sometimes on this interweb thingy to get someone's context straight.

[mangell6]

Know the town lived there for nearly ten years, the driver was stupid as in a small town the police know whose car belongs to whom.

Bluninja - I agree with you. The government is never responsible for an individual doing what they do. But then we have a socialist government and a PM who says all the right things and is cunning as well. If you doubt her cunning, watch how she manipulates the media and when contentious announcements are made.

Mike (Going back on holiday, without a bike)

[James Deuce]

*Closed down my linux box and it reposted - sorry folks.*

[spudchucka]

I can't see how any reasonable person could take issue with police action in this latest incident. I've only read what has been published in the media but it looks like this guy has bolted as soon as the red & blues came on, the driver of the other car stopped and this idiot obviously thought that he could make a break for it.

Perhaps if he had a radar detector he would have known that the police were nearby and he would have desisted from his silly behaviour in time to avoid being noticed by the local plod. :2thumbsup

As for our MP's, you will never see any common sense seep out of that place.

[Hitcher]

Isn't that the scariest thought imaginable.....
A shudder ran up my spine...

Have you sold your R1 Wkid? I saw it cluttering the footpath outside Sawyers/Motorad this morning when I dropped my wheels off for a service...
:D

[wkid_one]

Nah - still waiting on parts from Yam.....pisses me off. There was absolutely next to no damage on the bike - read: would have been rideable except for the engine cover.

All they need to replace is the engine cover, one mirror and the bar end. and then just a buff and repaint (although they may replace the plastics) - and because of xmas it takes yonks.

[wkid_one]

Why not go for abolition:banana: after all that will save the cost of the booze bus, and all the policing at these parties that get out of hand. Like a lot of other threads this is another example of socialist thinking :Pokey: if something is wrong it's the governments fault and they should fix it. Drinking at any age is about personal responsibility; and if you're old enough to drive, have sex, get married, even raise children, (or become a prostitute :Oops: ); then why shouldn't you be allowed to drink?

BTW last I knew the drink age was 18....this guy was 17, so raising the drink age wouldn't have worked for this case anyway.

I think on this one the police are being unfairly linked to the 'police chase' thing.

YEAH - then I can steal my old mans homebrew kit, start a moonshine still - buy a 1974 Dodge Charger, paint it sun burnt orange, paint a confederate flag on the roof, weld the doors shut and become a bootlegger. Hmmm - are there any police officers name Rosco, Enis or Hogg tho......shit - my plan my be folied. :whocares: :whocares: :whocares: :beer: :beer: :beer:

[Hitcher]

Nah - still waiting on parts from Yam.....pisses me off. There was absolutely next to no damage on the bike - read: would have been rideable except for the engine cover.

All they need to replace is the engine cover, one mirror and the bar end. and then just a buff and repaint (although they may replace the plastics) - and because of xmas it takes yonks.
So, reading between the lines, one could assume said R1 went for a wee excursion on body parts other than those round and rubbered??
:buggerd:

[wkid_one]

Yep - hellishly yes......crash bungs did lots to prevent major damage to the bike - unfortunately said rider didn't have crash bungs. Helmet took most of the impact, followed by left shoulder (yes the one reconstructed like 5 weeks before the accident), following by what felt like the rest of the whole body....