No screw to support video card?

[pzkpfw]

So I bought a PC (custom assembled from bits) off a local guy. Partly because he was "cheap" and partly to support a young guy starting out.

(He's trying to be professional and grow a business, business cards and web site and all, but he's obviously just starting as he works out of what seems to be his Mums' home.)

Picked up the PC, and it was badly put together. Most of the USB ports on the back, for example, couldn't be used because the back panel thing half covers them (the ports didn't line up with the holes in the panel).

One of the issues (probably all related to the motherboard (Gigabyte) and case (Cooler Master) not quite being lined up correctly), was the video card doesn't seems to sit properly on the back plane of the PC.

e.g. The tab on top of the back of the card, with the slots for the screws, doesn't sit flush on the edge of the case with the threaded holes in it.


I've returned the PC for reassembly, and pointed out the issues, but one thing he said (in an email) that surprised me was:

"The graphics card is not meant to screw in to place. It is ment to just sit there in this case and I just put in a screw in an angle to help support..."

I find that very surprising. The tabs are there on the card for the machine screws to go in! I've never heard of a card not being secured. Is that baloney or truth?

(The manual for the card says screw it in place - but it's a fairly generic manual for many models of card.)


(P.S. he's just emailed that he's looked at the case and agrees it's just not right. He's contacted his own supplier and is getting a new case under warranty; and will reassemble next day or two. I don't really mind problems occuring, as long as they are fixed without too much hassle on my side.

If this all works out, I'd still recommend him. He just needs to learn to do a bit more Q.A. before rushing a delivery out.)

[sil3nt]

You would still recommend him? :facepalm:

Assembling a PC is incredibly easy and it is apparent this kid does not know jack shit. All cards should be screwed into the case. Everything should line up as the panel comes with the motherboard so the holes are specific to the model of motherboard. It sounds like he has just found a panel lying around and given you that. I am assuming you mean this panel by the way http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/directron/howtoamscf20297.jpg

Get your money back and don't use him again. Why you would recommend someone that can't do something so simple is beyond me.

[pzkpfw]

You would still recommend him? :facepalm:

Assembling a PC is incredibly easy and it is apparent this kid does not know jack shit. All cards should be screwed into the case. Everything should line up as the panel comes with the motherboard so the holes are specific to the model of motherboard. It sounds like he has just found a panel lying around and given you that. I am assuming you mean this panel by the way http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/directron/howtoamscf20297.jpg

Get your money back and don't use him again. Why you would recommend someone that can't do something so simple is beyond me.

Yeah, that's the panel (but not that exact one, of course).

The reason I'd still "recommend" him, is because I know that you get what you pay for. When I ordered the PC off him, I knew I was paying less than anywhere else I could find. There's a reason for that. (The guy sells on TardMe too, and has a good rep there, so I don't think he's actually just useless. And besides, I've had issues with PC's and laptops bought from large well-established businesses too.)

What's most important is how he fixes the issues.

(Though, that's why my main question was the title of this thread. It's one thing to not do proper QA and have an issue to deal with. It's another to tell porkies or just not know something.)

We'll see...

[SMOKEU]

If he doesn't even know that expansion cards are meant to be screwed in then I wonder what other "shortcuts" he took.

[Gremlin]

As said, motherboards come with a specific back panel for that motherboard. Often cases come with a dummy one, but why I don't know. Pull it out, throw it away, put the motherboard specific one in.

If this kind of stuff eludes him I'd worry about him handling some expensive sensitive electronics :mellow:

Re screws, need picture to know what you mean. There are cases that are quite tool-less.

[pzkpfw]

The little filler plate (similar to seen in picture linked above) definitely seems the right one for the motherboard. It's just that with it in the rectangular hole in the case, the bits of the motherboard that should be available through the holes in the plate just are not lined up.

As far as I can tell, the case itself just hasn't been assembled properly (and this guy didn't check everything fitted into it correctly).

I get what you mean by tool-less assembly; I once had an HP Vectra where the tops of the expansion cards were (all at once) held in place by a single long bracket, that was in turn held in place by a single screw with a large head for simple finger (no screwdriver) use.

But in this case (no pun intended), it really does seem like each card is supposed to have its own screw. (The PC isn't here so I can't take another picture).

[iYRe]

some cases, for example HP branded ones, do not require a screw. Most these days have a lockable flap that clips down on top and holds the cards in place. Use of a screw driver to install stuff is so 2010.
I've just built 4 HP boxes for various things in the last 2 days, and not touched a screwdriver.. (and installed various cards, mdelta audio, video, etc)

[Gremlin]

It's just that with it in the rectangular hole in the case, the bits of the motherboard that should be available through the holes in the plate just are not lined up.
It's pretty hard to get this wrong. The motherboard screws down in specific places (actually, check he's put all the spacers behind the board where there are screw holes - ie, make sure there are screws in all the holes) and it basically lines up neatly to the back plate. I'd hazard a guess he's used a back plate for a slightly different motherboard. I've never had the wrong back plate in a box in 6+ years of assembling, lost count of the machines in that time but it's probably a hundred or so... not a primary job but we still build from scratch.

Usually its OEM cases from Dell, HP etc that are tool less. The average case for a scratch build still has screws in the usual places.

Somewhat unrelated, if it's a cheap machine, make sure you got a decent PSU. The ones that come with cheap cases are shite and crap out within a year or two.

[SMOKEU]

some cases, for example HP branded ones, do not require a screw. Most these days have a lockable flap that clips down on top and holds the cards in place. Use of a screw driver to install stuff is so 2010.
I've just built 4 HP boxes for various things in the last 2 days, and not touched a screwdriver.. (and installed various cards, mdelta audio, video, etc)

OEM cases are crap, just like the rest of the proprietary bullshit that comes with OEM computers.

[Gremlin]

OEM cases are crap, just like the rest of the proprietary bullshit that comes with OEM computers.
They vary in quality. I had a soft spot for the Dell Optiplex 745 ish series from a few years ago. We had a set of 20 at a client, been cycled out for Win7, but some are still working as spare machines with simple roles. Not bad for 5 year old machines left on 24/7.

[SMOKEU]

They vary in quality. I had a soft spot for the Dell Optiplex 745 ish series from a few years ago. We had a set of 20 at a client, been cycled out for Win7, but some are still working as spare machines with simple roles. Not bad for 5 year old machines left on 24/7.

I've had bad experiences with OEM machines. The worst is the proprietary parts and lack of support. Just trying to find a motherboard model number to get a new BIOS on old HP machines is a nightmare sometimes. I'd much rather have a custom build, even though the reliability is absolutely shocking with an average of 2 months between component failures. At least I can easily fix it myself if I keep throwing money at it.

[Akzle]

Picked up the PC, and it was badly put together. Most of the USB ports on the back, for example, couldn't be used because the back panel thing half covers them (the ports didn't line up with the holes in the panel).

One of the issues (probably all related to the motherboard (Gigabyte) and case (Cooler Master) not quite being lined up correctly), was the video card doesn't seems to sit properly on the back plane of the PC.

I've returned the PC for reassembly, and pointed out the issues, but one thing he said (in an email) that surprised me was:

"The graphics card is not meant to screw in to place. It is ment to just sit there in this case and I just put in a screw in an angle to help support..."


he da fuken muppet.
cases may/may not come with "generic" filler panels. but every motherboard should come with one that fits. as long as the form-factors are all equal (and they usually are), there is no problem.

any video card nowadays should be screwed in place.

personally. that's not a very good start to his business. tell him so. them yell abuse at him for being a dickhead.

[scracha]

he da fuken muppet.

Seconded. But then again, everyone is this country seems to be an expert at absolutely everything so we're both wrong.
Personally I'd take it back and demand a full refund.

[pzkpfw]

... Personally I'd take it back and demand a full refund.

I suspect that would take more effort (stress, hassle, time, ...) than it deserves. I'm prepared to give him the chance to make things right.

But I do want him to learn. So once I've triple checked that video card should be screwed down (I'll post pics when I get it back) I'm darn sure gonna tell him.

(And for now, the back-plane line-up issue does seem to come to a case manufacture issue. He gets the new case from his own supplier this morning and will be fitting everything into it today. We'll see...)

Here's the pic I made to send the guy when I first found the issue...

[Gremlin]

That's actually pretty accurate. I wouldn't think a manufacturer would get that wrong (ie, it doesn't look like a different model). Did he screw the board down?

Only other possibility is that he's using cheap shit, hence the manufacturing tolerance?

[pzkpfw]

That's actually pretty accurate. I wouldn't think a manufacturer would get that wrong (ie, it doesn't look like a different model). Did he screw the board down?

Only other possibility is that he's using cheap shit, hence the manufacturing tolerance?

Yeah, I think the little panel itself is very much the correct one, and it was in the correct place in the case, but the motherboard just wasn't fitting right.

I did take a look (after he confirmed it wouldn't break his warranty) and I just couldn't see how the motherboard could be made to move to the correct position. (Though I didn't remove the motherboard).

It was like (I'm not saying this is the actual problem, just trying to provide a metaphor or something) the spacers along just that edge of the motherboard were too big, so it just couldn't screw down far enough.

Except the buckling of the dividers between two of the expansion slots does point to other issues in the case.

I see Cooler Master cases being sold everywhere, so hopefully it's not simply crap, but I just ended up with a Friday one. (He's getting a replacement case from his supplier).

[Gremlin]

It was like (I'm not saying this is the actual problem, just trying to provide a metaphor or something) the spacers along just that edge of the motherboard were too big, so it just couldn't screw down far enough.

Except the buckling of the dividers between two of the expansion slots does point to other issues in the case.

I see Cooler Master cases being sold everywhere, so hopefully it's not simply crap, but I just ended up with a Friday one. (He's getting a replacement case from his supplier).
The spacers could indeed be the incorrect length, and they do come in different sizes. Usually come with the case, to offset the board in the correct position. If he mixed them up, then it could happen.

Buckling... it's mild steel and bends quite easily. Still sharp enough to cut you if you're careless :facepalm: Haven't had a problem with Cooler Master cases, used several dozen of various models.

[Akzle]

everyone is this country seems to be an expert at absolutely everything so we're both wrong.
speak for yourself. i'm fucking awesome. (and right) in this case and every other.


Yeah, I think the little panel itself is very much the correct one, and it was in the correct place in the case, but the motherboard just wasn't fitting right....

Except the buckling of the dividers between two of the expansion slots does point to other issues in the case.

yeah it looks right. did he get the right sized risers/spacers/standoff bizos for under the motherboard....?

the buckling of dividers was caused because he wasn't gentle when he put the video card in. of he prised the blanking panels out with a screwdriver.
what a n00b.

[imdying]

OEM cases are crap, just like the rest of the proprietary bullshit that comes with OEM computers.They really aren't. They're easy to work on, everything is accessible and no tools required. White boxes are great for average Joe desktops.


I've had bad experiences with OEM machines. The worst is the proprietary parts and lack of support. Just trying to find a motherboard model number to get a new BIOS on old HP machines is a nightmare sometimes. I'd much rather have a custom build, even though the reliability is absolutely shocking with an average of 2 months between component failures. At least I can easily fix it myself if I keep throwing money at it.Right. They're business PCs. They're only useful for 3-5 years. After that they've been written off through depreciation, and they're too slow/small/whatever. During that 3-5 years, you can get any part you need overnight from HP. If you can't, you call me, I'll sort it out. What the hell you'd bother with upgrading a BIOS on a white box I have no idea... you just get another box if it's gone that far out of date... it's already been written off... and then you give it away/recycle it. I've got one that's eaten two HDDs in 3 years, but other than that we've hundreds that never get opened during their life cycle.

We use them because:
- should one die for any reason, we swap the drive and keep working, no down time (down time for a day costs more than the box)
- they're cheap (TCO)
- they're easy to get parts for


If they had good 3D performance, I'd consider one for home. You should come in some time... hell if you're a .NET developer I can probably even sort you out a a job.

[SMOKEU]

What the hell you'd bother with upgrading a BIOS on a white box I have no idea

I have a spare HP computer which I use whenever my "good" computer shits itself and I wanted a newer BIOS to enable Pentium D support on it. HP doesn't exactly make it as easy as Gigabyte or Asus do.

[iYRe]

imdyin +1

My sanity has been saved so many times for this very reason.

Sure, there are better designed cases etc.. but they are more expensive, and there is more downtime if there is an issue.. and time is important.
Google recently said they prefer linux, because it saves them about 1 million USD a year in reboots alone - that's 1 million to answer a call and say "reboot it" or send a tech to reboot it. Doesnt count actual down time.

[pzkpfw]

A Dilbert for every occassion:

[imdying]

I have a spare HP computer which I use whenever my "good" computer shits itself and I wanted a newer BIOS to enable Pentium D support on it. HP doesn't exactly make it as easy as Gigabyte or Asus do.Of course not... if you wanted a white box with a faster processor, they would sell you one! White boxes basically never see upgrades... they'd only require that if procurement were given the wrong specifications to order in the first case.

Corporate IT is vastly different from consumer... there's no quibbles over a few hundred bucks for a start.

[Gremlin]

Corporate IT is vastly different from consumer... there's no quibbles over a few hundred bucks for a start.
Don't be silly, we love upgrading machine components every 6 months for shits and giggles... Company loves paying for the cost too with no real benefit...

:weird:

[pzkpfw]

Don't be silly, we love upgrading machine components every 6 months for shits and giggles... Company loves paying for the cost too with no real benefit...

:weird:

I have a mate who got fed up with his work PC the other day, so bought an SSD and did a sneaky upgrade.

He's curious - wondering if corporate IT will ever catch-on...

[Gremlin]

He's curious - wondering if corporate IT will ever catch-on...
Depends how closely monitored. I wouldn't really care, other than the risk of damaging other components/the upgrade went wrong etc, but we contract to companies. No news is good news. I've been rung once in 6 years re a client just ringing to say thanks, good job... if it's quiet, it means things are working as required.

[imdying]

I have a mate who got fed up with his work PC the other day, so bought an SSD and did a sneaky upgrade.

He's curious - wondering if corporate IT will ever catch-on...

Catch on? Hell I would've had them supply and install it... why use your own money? Defeating the point of going to work isn't it?

[pzkpfw]

For the record: got it back (Saturday) and (almost) all seems fine.

He admitted a "mistake" resulting in the buckled back panel, and didn't do it to the second case.

The motherboard all sits in place properly now, and all rear ports are accessible. He claims the original case had too-large holes for the risers, so they didn't sit in place, resulting in the motherboard position being off....

On the basis of the little tab on a PCI-e x16 slot, he still (!) claims no screws are needed. But, the card is very definitely sitting correctly now, and he did put two screws on the back panel, so I'm happy.

This time around he's got the power wires more nicely sorted, too. I don't like how some of them touch the cooling pipes of the video card, so may put in another cable tie to hold them off; but it's no biggie (I hope).

Thanks everyone for your time.

(I do have a sound issue, but started a new thread with a new title for that.)

[pzkpfw]

Frack.

Now I've noticed the way he's mounted the hard drive. He seems to have not been able to make it sit on the tabs that hold it up, and has bent/mangled them out of the way.

Especially silly as the case actually came with nice little plastic locking things, with prongs that go in the screw holes in the drive, so you don't actually need screws to hold it in!

Also unimpressed with the way the DVD cable was jammed through the side of the drive cage.

He really is an amateur.

Sigh.

[Gremlin]

Haha, what was that about cheap?

The plastic thing's lock go to the right of the screw, top photo...

[pzkpfw]

Haha, what was that about cheap?

Sigh.



The plastic thing's lock go to the right of the screw, top photo...

Yes, you're right. The ones that came with the case (an odd number, so he lost one?) are "locked" into position in un-used drive bays lower down, so it was pretty clear how they work. They have prongs that are spaced exactly the same as the threaded holes in the drive, so also pretty clear they poke into those holes to hold the drive in place.

I'm no expert in assembling current PC's, but I could figure that out - which, yes, makes me worry about this guy doing it "professionally"!