"Parking on the line" with Auckland Council

[bamaboy]

hey guys,
I have to admire how the auckland city council wardens come up with new ways to ping us.
following are the photos of me parked and the fellas decide I should be ticketed for a 150 dollar "parking in a spot designated for the disabled" fine?
usually I dont have the time to argue my case with them or fight them, but luckily this time I do. I was keen to fight the courts if comes to that, but would be good to know your views
chur
Nik

[5150]

You shit out of luck. It's "leaning" over the yellow line

[Lozza2442]

I'd still argue it. They back down a lot.

[Maha]

Does the 'On the line is out' rule apply to vehicle parking?

[slofox]

Does the 'On the line is out' rule apply to vehicle parking?

Zackery. On the line is out in footie so it must be the same for everyfink else, innit?

[caseye]

Have a go! and mention that when you parked there, there was another bike and you had to park where you did, right on the line to fit in.
It is a clear indication of any councils intention to make as much from these revenue gathering enterprises as possible.
But bugga them, take it as far as you dare.
Worst case scenario , you end up paying, best, you get off and know that in parking , on the line, is, OUT!

[jasonu]

Why did you park so close to the line when there looks to be enough room to have parked it a few cm's over? Could have saved you some bother and it would have been a bit safer being farther from the cripple space.

[chasio]

It's definitely worth writing a polite letter for this one. Some of them do get overzealous but I know a lot of guys who have successfully asked for common-sense to be applied.

[G4L4XY]

The wheels are in the correct parking space but the stand is in the other, gee what a bunch 'o' cnuts

[jafar]

Do a check through the legal sites & find out if there is a precedent already through the courts. I'd think there is & you will have your answer. If there isn't then you had better win otherwise everyone else that gets pinged for the same thing will hate you for losing:Oops:

[Akzle]

this was debated and discused at length in a previous thread.

just FYI

[St_Gabriel]

Not sure on the legality, but your stand is clearly in the neighbouring space... oh and you're a cunt for parking so close to the disable park. They make the spaces to allow for cars to park central (as if that ever happens) with some of their space and some of your space combined allowing you to pull out safely, so you were morally impinging on their space to pull out from the park. Had they hit your vehicle when pulling out, i could see an entirely different thread about " fucking inconsiderate cripple fucking cagers"

[FJRider]

Pic 3 shows clearly a dotted yellow line ... extending on out from the disabled parking space. This is to allow those disabled drivers more space to enter and leave their designated parking space.

Pinged fair and square.

[pzkpfw]

I've always imagined (this is not a legal opinion) that the yellow lines marking a disabled space denote a "box", the entire volume of which is for the use of the disabled parker, to use as they see fit.

(It's not my business how the user gets in and out of their vehicle, or how they drive.)

Even if all ground-touching parts of my bike were outside the lines, I wouldn't let my bike lean "into the box".

[sootie]

I am a bit surprised at the hard line taken. Things seem quite relaxed in Takapuna / Milford.
Still, if you have ever really needed to legitimately use a disabled car park while injured, or while chauferring a very elderly person around, you would probably understand what a godsend these special car parks can be. Will have to agree with FJRider this time (very unusual!)

[Berries]

If it was my car I might have given the bike a nudge. Luckily you have posted the photos that would have helped my case.

[G4L4XY]

At the end of the day even if the stand was 50mm in the correct parking space, IF it was in the way to begin with another 50mm wont make any difference.

[oneofsix]

Zackery. On the line is out in footie so it must be the same for everyfink else, innit?

Line is in for football (soccer to diehards) and most sports, out in rugby, league and tennis. As all the rules seem to talk of crossing and most of the bike is in the correct park then I would say the stand hasn't crossed the line but as to the bars etc ...

[Bassmatt]

If it was my car I might have given the bike a nudge. Luckily you have posted the photos that would have helped my case.

Really? There is plenty of room for that car to get out of the park without going anywhere near the bike.
Or were you thinking "if I was an average car driving fuckwit" I might have given your bike a nudge?

[Bassmatt]

It looks like the cars front wheel is "on" the line too, did you notice if they were ticketed?

[Bassmatt]

Pic 3 shows clearly a dotted yellow line ... extending on out from the disabled parking space. This is to allow those disabled drivers more space to enter and leave their designated parking space.

Pinged fair and square.

At the front of a parallell park? I can understand angle parks being wider to allow for a wheelchair or something but that makes no sense.
Can they not drive as well as fully able bodied drivers?

[pzkpfw]

At the front of a parallell park? I can understand angle parks being wider to allow for a wheelchair or something but that makes no sense.
Can they not drive as well as fully able bodied drivers?

Maybe a van will park there, and it needs to be parked right up to the line to allow a wheelchair to be unloaded from the back?

The point is, the lines denote an area that is to be avoided. It's for disabled users to use however they need to. It's not for the rest of us to second-guess how that space should be used.

[oneofsix]

Maybe a van will park there, and it needs to be parked right up to the line to allow a wheelchair to be unloaded from the back?

The point is, the lines denote an area that is to be avoided. It's for disabled users to use however they need to. It's not for the rest of us to second-guess how that space should be used.

The line is also the edge of the motorcycle park so by your own argue that means it is part of their park and for them to use as they wish and not for the disabled to second guess. :bs: The disabled park, is it is to allow for vans to unload, should be long enough for them to do that without havign to poke their nose up to the line and risk crossing the line.

[bogan]

It only leans into the park, so what you need to do, is pad out one of your boots you when you stand up you're on a similar lean. Then when you go in to dispute it, just say, nah bro, it looks straight up and down to me.

Who knows, if they guy has a sense of humor (probably rare in the parking biz) he might let you off. Or just keep kicking it up the chain until somebody sees the infringement is pretty minor and not worth worrying about.

[pzkpfw]

The line is also the edge of the motorcycle park so by your own argue that means it is part of their park and for them to use as they wish and not for the disabled to second guess. :bs: The disabled park, is it is to allow for vans to unload, should be long enough for them to do that without havign to poke their nose up to the line and risk crossing the line.

I wouldn't split hairs about the space about the paint itself. If I'm able to ride a bike, I'll give that space to the disabled person.

[FJRider]

At the front of a parallell park? I can understand angle parks being wider to allow for a wheelchair or something but that makes no sense.
Can they not drive as well as fully able bodied drivers?

Auckland city bylaws seldom make sense ... and Auckland drivers (disabled one's included) need all the help they can get.

[Flip]

I also agree with FJRider.

You parked there, you can pay.

[Bassmatt]

I wouldn't split hairs about the space about the paint itself. If I'm able to ride a bike, I'll give that space to the disabled person.

Nah stuff 'em. I dont understand why they get these special parks right in front of shops or entrances to malls etc, we are the ones that have to walk everywhere while they cruise around in their cushy wheelchairs.



:devil2:

[JimO]

Nah stuff 'em. I dont understand why they get these special parks right in front of shops or entrances to malls etc, we are the ones that have to walk everywhere while they cruise around in their cushy wheelchairs.



:devil2:
yea the cunts get all the good parks and they are nearly always empty

[varminter]

Had a disabled sticker for six months after my wife had her knee replacement, bloody great. Thinking of breaking her legs on a permanent basis.:innocent:

[sootie]

If he parks his bike there when I am legitimately authorised to use the disabled car park, I think he ought to know that I might just be so pissed off with him, the bike & life in general that I might just take the whole bike home on the front of the car!

[SILVER SUZI]

So if you get a ticket for not the wheel, but any part of your vehicle being over th line then there must be a lot of people out there getting tickets......... like the car in the picture which is on the outside line. I'd be checking that the car was also ticketed. If not then they're fucked! My money is on the bike being the only one ticketed.

[pzkpfw]

It's quite common.

I had a boss ticketed once for the front of his car being over the line a bit into the space ahead.

He tried to argue he'd had to park that way to fit in front of the car in the park behind (this was true, no lie; but that car was gone by the time the ticketer came by) but that wasn't good enough. Ticket paid.

[Old Steve]

I used to have a Mother-in-law who was a very disabled polio survivor and I hate able bodied people parking in disabled parking spaces. If I'm there when some able bodied driver (if the car is not displaying a disabled sticker, some disabled people are picked up by able bodied drivers) pulls into a disabled parking space I usually ask them what part of their body is handicapped. They usually go, "What?" so I reply, "Oh, it's your brain that's handicapped is it?"

However, this case seems to be beyond being pedantic. I would hope the Council sees sense and cancels the ticket. Yeah Right, as if they would.

[5150]

I used to have a Mother-in-law who was a very disabled polio survivor and I hate able bodied people parking in disabled parking spaces. If I'm there when some able bodied driver (if the car is not displaying a disabled sticker, some disabled people are picked up by able bodied drivers) pulls into a disabled parking space I usually ask them what part of their body is handicapped. They usually go, "What?" so I reply, "Oh, it's your brain that's handicapped is it?"

However, this case seems to be beyond being pedantic. I would hope the Council sees sense and cancels the ticket. Yeah Right, as if they would.

I thought in the eyes of the NZ law being a biker is a dissability....... Shouldn't we then receive our parking permits with our yearly rego reminder letters? :whistle::dodge:

[SILVER SUZI]

A few yaers ago my dad worked as a volunteer at a local mall and they were going to get stickers made up to put on cars parked in a disabled space (if they didn't have a permit displayed). the sticker went something like this "now that you have my car park, would you like my disability too?"
Fucking brilliant!:bash:

[sootie]

A few yaers ago my dad worked as a volunteer at a local mall and they were going to get stickers made up to put on cars parked in a disabled space (if they didn't have a permit displayed). the sticker went something like this "now that you have my car park, would you like my disability too?"
Fucking brilliant!:bash:
I think a lot of people have yet to understand that where used as intended, a disabled car park often makes the difference between the disabled person being able to go where they need to or not. They need to be left largely unused to be effective.

[varminter]

Join 'shotguns for the disabled' that will solve the problem.

[Hinny]

I used to have a Mother-in-law who was a very disabled polio survivor and I hate able bodied people parking in disabled parking spaces. If I'm there when some able bodied driver (if the car is not displaying a disabled sticker, some disabled people are picked up by able bodied drivers) pulls into a disabled parking space I usually ask them what part of their body is handicapped. They usually go, "What?" so I reply, "Oh, it's your brain that's handicapped is it?"

However, this case seems to be beyond being pedantic. I would hope the Council sees sense and cancels the ticket. Yeah Right, as if they would.

My line is "Hey mate, that park is for the physically handicapped, not the mentally handicapped."

[G4L4XY]

Do we know if he got off the fine in the end?

[The Pastor]

why would you park infront of a tard? chances of knocking ur bike over are crazy high.

[bamaboy]

I didn't really realise how quickly so many keyboard ninja critics go onto this. dont really know what to tell some of you fellas who would be keen to intently casually nudge a bike with your car and still claim to be a kiwibiker - thanks for your input. this is not about me trying to disrespect anyone disabled. I might have put this post up for help at the time as I didnt know what resources to check out, but I guess the most replies weren't of any help. but anyways here is an update for some of you goodfellas who were really keen to find out about what the resolution was or how i got along


There was a vehicle parked on both sides of the bike, i made sure i gave both of them equal space to maneuver out of the parks, the asian dude who had parked the bmw in the disability parking had a chat with me as we both arrived back to the vehicles together, he seemed to be just as surprised about the ruthless ticket as he cudnt imagine having a problem driving away even though he had a bung shoulder. he stayed there while i took the photos having a chat with me.

here are a few updates for people who would be interested to see the resolution. I requested in a nice polite email to cancel it - i did mention the "use a bit of common sense\ reason-ability"line. but to no avail, they simply said me parkign there would had made is impossible for any car from parking in the disability park. but when i replied back with the photos and mentioned there was a car parked there infact, they didnt respond. so yup we have landed in court finally this monday - 10 december 2012. took a while

I attended the court, made a non guilty plea and they scheduled a day next year for it, I was curious about the crowd in that court room so I sat through the day as there were 8 other parking cases being contested. mostly car fines etc. emotions were flying high and was the best drama I have ever seen. from the looks of it the judges are lenient on reasonable people and ping the smartalecs . couple of the tickets given were ridiculous. so the judges made them 1$ tickets. seemed like a regular AKL transport v\s common man ordeal every monday 1.15pm - courtroom 5, if any of you are ever looking for some free entertainment on a monday afternoon do drop in. i was glad i stayed back to watch their cases. was a great learning experience as i had never been to court before

I got my first hearing date for 4 march - 2013 (the transport prosecutor seemed to be the one to get to decide that when the judge asked him when they can do it, another tactic used by them to prolong the resolution, but then all the other cases around me seemed to be poor people who had been dragged in for tickets issued in january \feb\april 2012.) I have a better idea as to how I will need to prepare my defense and present my evidence, but not loose track of the fact that as its a matter of principle for me and not anger anymore.

this is how i will plan to put my case to the judge,
I parked there while being considerate to vehicles on either sides of the bike.

i will request for photographic evidence that the warden has (they aparently photograph everything)

Ill need to research more about the line and what is said in the parking laws,

if its justifiable for AKL Trsnprt to uphold the ticket on the argument that me parking there stops other cars from parking there - while i have photos of a bmw parked there just fine.

a 150$ fine for infringement seems an unreasonable amount of money for breaching 1 cms worth of space in a car park.

since this spot is right behind the district court (federal st) I spent some time there on this monday arvo when i attended my non guilty plea enrolment attendance (or whatever they call it) i took photos of 4 diff cars parked in the same spot breaching the line by a couple of cms each. (one of them has a traffic warden walking by ignoring it :D )
I plan to make another couple of trips there. after i gather about 15 photos of how cars have been parked there in the regular park and get away with breaching the line (even if by couple of cms) it seem like a common thing all around the city, maybe get a couple of other site's pics as well around the city.

I will mention that I personally feel the ticket is unreasonable and after actually chatting with a couple of wardens (which wont be named - made friends with some of the fellas who were actually there that arvo when they were leaving) I was recommended to take this to court as its a borderline case.

after all this if the judge still says that I should pay it, ill be more than happy to as I have actually tried what I could as i felt it was a matter of principle for me.

on a side line, just got back from melbourne after a holiday - that place is a biker's heaven, bikes are never ticketed there or in sydney (i got to borrow a mate's 650 for 3 weeks :) ), traffic wardens are actually friendly to bikers (unless u piss them off) you can park anywhere on footpaths etc even in cbd as long as you park it so its not an obstruction to pedestrians or the flow of traffic. came across one curious warden giving my borrowed bike the staredown when i returned to it one afternoon on bondi beach, i was already on the defensive thinking this guys is gonna ticket me for something stupid or what- he simply turned to me as he realised it was my bike, asking about the aftermarket exuast pipes and if they are as easy as a DIY as car exuasts......when i admited to him i thot he was gonna ticket me, he goes naaaaaaaa mate, this bondi area is my turf, I never ticket bikes, no warden around here does, and now that he knows that ones my bike i can even get away parking to the excess of the time limit as well in some spots, he claimed to make sure no one tickets that red and black 650 in bondi..... I always waved at him when i was rolling in bondi after that. the dude was a kiwi bloke from mt eden ;)

maybe some day auckland would be similar to that - or maybe i should just migrate there, i hope no admin sees this, i hope they dont cancel my "kiwi:biker account :D)

[sootie]

...... on a side line, just got back from melbourne after a holiday - that place is a biker's heaven, bikes are never ticketed there or in sydney ............
maybe some day auckland would be similar to that - or maybe i should just migrate there, ....... )

Not sure if I mentioned some time ago that I questioned a warden who happened to be talking to his supervisor in the streets of Milford (Ak North Shore)
about their policy towards ticketing motorcyles for shall we say "abnormal" parking.

The two wardens both told me that it was their personal policy to leave motorcycles alone provided they were not obstructing traffic or peds (as you have detailed.)
However, this was pre "Super City" days, and the wardens both stressed that they could not speak for other wardens.

I doubt if this will help you, since the case seems to rest around whether you were in fact "obstructing". Good Luck.

[oneofsix]

thanks for the update bamaboy. Good luck in March 2013, will be interested in your court report.

[G4L4XY]

Thanks for the update, is good to learn what the final result is. Goodluck for your court case!

[theseekerfinds]

great to get an update on this, you're doing a fair bit of legwork to prepare and I hope it all pays off for you, looking forward to the next update. Or should that read "verdict"??

[SPman]

maybe some day auckland would be similar to that - or maybe i should just migrate there, i hope no admin sees this, i hope they dont cancel my "kiwi:biker account :D)
Auckland used to be like that not that long ago - when I left in 2006, it was still possible to park on the footpath as long as you weren't obstructing it!
Maybe it'll get as bad as Perth, where they now have parking meters for bikes - cunts!

[werwolf]

You should be down here in Wellington, the local Council nazis have decided that a bike cannot be parked in a car space unless it is a metered space. No parking in pay and display. Now my bike has an electric adjustable windscreen, I move it right out and on the fairing under the screen I have stuck one of those clear sticky holders you get for rego stickers etc at the post office. I pay my parking fee, and display my coupon in the holder with the screen right down to protect from rain and wind. " NO SAYS MISTER PLOD" you cannot park in here, If you do , I will ticket you ! "Fuck off " says I. Ive paid my fee and displayed my coupon, Its my space to use for the next hour, same as a car. And by the way, where is the signage saying no motorbikes. Sheepish looks follow, no ticket, but his parting shot is " if you get backed into, you will not get insurance as your illegally parked " . Bull shit says I, My insurance covers me , and Ive paid my parking fee. And I also have the pictures to prove it.
Havnt had a ticket yet !!!!:banana:

[Berries]

Havnt had a ticket yet !!!!:banana:
You are happy because you get away with paying to park your bike? Weird.

[pzkpfw]

... but his parting shot is " if you get backed into, you will not get insurance as your illegally parked "

You'd get off on a technicality anyway, as he meant "you're".

[bamaboy]

so half a year later
and multiple visits to the court later

judge decided it was a bit ruthless so reduced the fin to 30 bucks and court cost still at full . i paid 164 bucks. (original ticket was 150 bucks)

upside is i know half of the wardens n the auckland city prosecutor who apparently is a ex biker cop who is sniggered thru when the verdict was passed.
the wardens that patrol the city assure theyll lookout for the bike and wont ticket it anymore.....yeah right!

a big pinch of salt later...time to move on!