IWI - I want it

[jellywrestler]

http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/mp/14748863/iwi-claiming-rights-to-wind/

when will this shit end?

[Virago]

I've been making small donations all evening...

[98tls]

What makes it sad is no doubt they will get it or at least waste millions of taxpayers money having it discussed.What part of "partys over fuck off" do we find so hard to say?

[Brian d marge]

brilliant love it , go Maori!

Stephen

[Kendog]

That shit is just fucked up.

Surely most Maori think its stupid as well.

[The Baron]

Water, Air - that only leaves fire.

[oneofsix]

Water, Air - that only leaves fire.

Do you want to think about that a bit more? They already have all the volcanoes etc so they already have the fire.

[Woodman]

:facepalm::facepalm:

What happens if the wind bill isn't paid?

Who pays for damage caused by excess wind?

Do we get a credit if the wind blows in the wrong direction?

If the wind comes from Antarctica do the Iwi pay the penguins a percentage?

[jim.cox]

Right - enough is enough.

Time for our own tribe

Ngati KiwiBike anyone?

[BoristheBiter]

It will never end, as once a hand out is given the hand will remain out.

[SMOKEU]

Ngati KiwiBike anyone?

Fourth Reich is a better name for it.

[Swoop]

Next time there's a tornado...

Pay up for the damage your wind caused, "bro".

[James Deuce]

It'll end when the Gubbermint stops trying to sell the means of energy generation to overseas interests.

[BoristheBiter]

It'll end when the Gubbermint stops trying to sell the means of energy generation to overseas interests.

Tui's ad anyone.

[James Deuce]

You guys haven't spotted that pattern yet? Don't forget that what you read on Stuff and Nanny Herald bears little relation to reality and is heavyily laced with right-wing propaganda . The only group left in NZ who can mount a credible challenge to the National Government's desire to sell off tax-payer funded assets are Maori. They have the legal means to do so and it appears they are taking the lead.

However the average Kiwi's blind racist rage at anything "IWI" based is being used to distract Whitey from the fact that his brown brethren are making a better fist of preventing these unwanted sales from going ahead.

[imdying]

Trains... camps... no man... no problem.

[wharekura]

when will this shit end?
The beloved Owera speech gained pace but where were all the voters when speech giver went to Act. Why did the nats join with Maori in a collation when I am sure the votes from Maori aren't all that important - or are they? I too ask if the majority say end this race division, then why isnt it in force? I am sure we kiwis are not afraid of an Uruwera hunter uprising - so what is stopping govt to say "no more"

[HenryDorsetCase]

You guys haven't spotted that pattern yet? Don't forget that what you read on Stuff and Nanny Herald bears little relation to reality and is heavyily laced with right-wing propaganda . The only group left in NZ who can mount a credible challenge to the National Government's desire to sell off tax-payer funded assets are Maori. They have the legal means to do so and it appears they are taking the lead.

However the average Kiwi's blind racist rage at anything "IWI" based is being used to distract Whitey from the fact that his brown brethren are making a better fist of preventing these unwanted sales from going ahead.

Bravo comrade!!!

to the barricades!

[BoristheBiter]

You guys haven't spotted that pattern yet? Don't forget that what you read on Stuff and Nanny Herald bears little relation to reality and is heavyily laced with right-wing propaganda . The only group left in NZ who can mount a credible challenge to the National Government's desire to sell off tax-payer funded assets are Maori. They have the legal means to do so and it appears they are taking the lead.

However the average Kiwi's blind racist rage at anything "IWI" based is being used to distract Whitey from the fact that his brown brethren are making a better fist of preventing these unwanted sales from going ahead.

The only reason Iwi give a shit about it is they can see their gravy train disappearing so they are getting what they can.

the only pattern that is here is once again Maori want something for nothing an again the government have no backbone as it is easy to pay them off then give a shit, after all it's not their money they're using.

[jim.cox]

it is easy to pay them off then give a shit, after all it's not their money they're using.

The Govt are busy giving away our country to their rich mates.

Easier to slide a little to the Iwi to shut them up than to fight them

[caseye]

You guys haven't spotted that pattern yet? Don't forget that what you read on Stuff and Nanny Herald bears little relation to reality and is heavyily laced with right-wing propaganda . The only group left in NZ who can mount a credible challenge to the National Government's desire to sell off tax-payer funded assets are Maori. They have the legal means to do so and it appears they are taking the lead.

However the average Kiwi's blind racist rage at anything "IWI" based is being used to distract Whitey from the fact that his brown brethren are making a better fist of preventing these unwanted sales from going ahead.

An interesting take on things there JD, quite possibly true! I'm all for making good on things we did not do properly the first time.
I've about had enough of this govt's total denial of NZ'ers voices being heard when it comes to what we want as a country, (smacking bill, for instance) a referendum and like their red brothers before them, they ignored it!) But the thought that our brown brothers are in fact fighting for us all when it comes to asset sales is one that I'd never have considered until you pointed it out.
I have one problem with this though.
If we assumed that this is in fact their objective and if they succeed, how much is it going to cost every OTHER ( you know,non brown invader) NZ'er to live here, what with having to support all of them in they way to which they are quickly becoming used to.

[Reckless]

If they get the wind ( air, environment) does it mean they pay the carbon tax???

[James Deuce]

It will cost nothing. They aren't asking for money, just guaranteed access to water and wind for all Maori, all the time. Who happen to be Kiwis too.

If the Government really wanted to stimulate economic growth with partial asset sales, they would privatise these assets entirely and make all Kiwis shareholders in the remaining 51%, giving us access to the dividends these businesses will produce as well as a personal interest in them succeeding, and give us individual and collective access to the overseas minority shareholders to keep on top of the development of these assets. The shares would be similar to Fonterra shares in that you can't trade them unless you opt out of the "business", i.e. emigrate, and they woul dbe traded to other Kiwi citizens.

[MisterD]

They aren't asking for money...

Hahahahahahah :killingme

[Reckless]

It will cost nothing. They aren't asking for money, just guaranteed access to water and wind for all Maori, all the time. Who happen to be Kiwis too.

If the Government really wanted to stimulate economic growth with partial asset sales, they would privatise these assets entirely and make all Kiwis shareholders in the remaining 51%, giving us access to the dividends these businesses will produce as well as a personal interest in them succeeding, and give us individual and collective access to the overseas minority shareholders to keep on top of the development of these assets. The shares would be similar to Fonterra shares in that you can't trade them unless you opt out of the "business", i.e. emigrate, and they woul dbe traded to other Kiwi citizens.


As long as it will really works that way I agree to be fair!!
I dont think we should be selling off our bread and butter assets either personally.

[imdying]

Who happen to be Kiwis too.No. No they are not. They are Maoris. That's the box they tick when relevant. When they stop ticking that and start ticking New Zealender like the rest of us, then they're our brothers. Until then they're racist separatists.

[BoristheBiter]

It will cost nothing. They aren't asking for money, just guaranteed access to water and wind for all Maori, all the time. Who happen to be Kiwis too.

If the Government really wanted to stimulate economic growth with partial asset sales, they would privatise these assets entirely and make all Kiwis shareholders in the remaining 51%, giving us access to the dividends these businesses will produce as well as a personal interest in them succeeding, and give us individual and collective access to the overseas minority shareholders to keep on top of the development of these assets. The shares would be similar to Fonterra shares in that you can't trade them unless you opt out of the "business", i.e. emigrate, and they woul dbe traded to other Kiwi citizens.

FFS, do you write for Tui as a day job?

[Murray]

It will end when Winston is Prime Minister:rockon:

[Kendog]

They aren't asking for money, just guaranteed access to water and wind for all Maori, all the time.
I want to believe you, but this is what the news article says:

"A Ngapuhi sub-tribe is making a Waitangi Tribunal claim for Maori to earn a dividend for the use of wind for commercial electricity generation."

[James Deuce]

Yes, I know. As we should all know though, what is printed in the media is simply tosh. The details of the allegedly requested dividend haven't been made public and the things I've heard Dr Pita Sharples say about this process are markedly different to what gets reported. Question everything, not just that which is comfortable for each of us to question.

[jasonu]

Yes, I know. As we should all know though, what is printed in the media is simply tosh. The details of the allegedly requested dividend haven't been made public and the things I've heard Dr Pita Sharples say about this process are markedly different to what gets reported. Question everything, not just that which is comfortable for each of us to question.

Well if Pita Sharples said it then it must be true...

[Bassmatt]

I see most of you are falling for the divide and conquer method that our friends in Govt. love to use. Makes a great distraction from the real issues too.
Mr Key and previous Govts. have stated that no-one owns water, so where the fuck do they get off selling the use of it.


I'm with Mr Deuce on this one.

[Road kill]

That shit is just fucked up.

Surely most Maori think its stupid as well.

No,we've lived with 200 years of being constantly undermined and ignored by the people we were ment to be in partnership with,,,so most of us are just sitting back and watching the long over due justice unfold.

This is the trouble with modern society huh,,,,,you actualy have to honor your past commitments now days.

Sorry about that,,,but yeah,,the party is over so you may as well get used to it,,,,we had to.

[jellywrestler]

No,we've lived with 200 years ,
so most of us are just sitting back and watching

there's the answer just sit back and watch eh?
there's two main types of bones, jaw bones and back bones, easy to figure out which is the most effective at earning their keep

[Brian d marge]

Ifthe assest cannot be sold cleanly , as in the water that runs the machines must be guaranteed , or even the air , or indeed the ground which the water is on . No one will touch it with a barge pole , ( one assumes )

cant sell .

Didn’t see that one coming Mr IMF man ,,,HA ! in your face :bash: America !

Personally I would rather see this land go to hell and high water under Maori , than under America !!!

Was one interesting comment I heard , by delaying or looking like others caused the delays , up until the next election , it may give national away out , or if successful in the next election , more zest in selling ,

Stephen

[BoristheBiter]

No,we've lived with 200 years of being constantly undermined and ignored by the people we were ment to be in partnership with,,,so most of us are just sitting back and watching the long over due justice unfold.

This is the trouble with modern society huh,,,,,you actualy have to honor your past commitments now days.

Sorry about that,,,but yeah,,the party is over so you may as well get used to it,,,,we had to.

Show me where in the treaty we have to give Maori preferential treatment over everyone else.
As you lot keep harping on about partnership it's about time you started doing some work.

[98tls]

No,we've lived with 200 years of being constantly undermined and ignored by the people we were ment to be in partnership with,,,so most of us are just sitting back and watching the long over due justice unfold.

This is the trouble with modern society huh,,,,,you actualy have to honor your past commitments now days.

Sorry about that,,,but yeah,,the party is over so you may as well get used to it,,,,we had to.

Fuck get over it,think yourself lucky you didnt end up in a pot with a few vegies like those here before your lot showed up.Your owed nothing.

[short-circuit]

:facepalm::facepalm:

What happens if the wind bill isn't paid?

Who pays for damage caused by excess wind?

Do we get a credit if the wind blows in the wrong direction?

If the wind comes from Antarctica do the Iwi pay the penguins a percentage?


Funny........

[short-circuit]

It'll end when the Gubbermint stops trying to sell the means of energy generation to overseas interests.

Probably........

[short-circuit]

You guys haven't spotted that pattern yet? Don't forget that what you read on Stuff and Nanny Herald bears little relation to reality and is heavyily laced with right-wing propaganda . The only group left in NZ who can mount a credible challenge to the National Government's desire to sell off tax-payer funded assets are Maori. They have the legal means to do so and it appears they are taking the lead.

However the average Kiwi's blind racist rage at anything "IWI" based is being used to distract Whitey from the fact that his brown brethren are making a better fist of preventing these unwanted sales from going ahead.

Exactly.........

[short-circuit]

I'm with Mr Deuce on this one.

Me too .........

[mashman]

Show me where in the treaty we have to give Maori preferential treatment over everyone else.


Dunno about the treaty... but try this for size dickweed... United Nations DRIPS (http://www.un.org/esa/socdev/unpfii/documents/DRIPS_en.pdf)

Article 4 and Article 8 being a couple of faves

[Ocean1]

The only group left in NZ who can mount a credible challenge to the National Government's desire to sell off tax-payer funded assets are Maori. They have the legal means to do so and it appears they are taking the lead.

And the fact that their actions advantage them and only them is entirely coincidental?

When an entity's words and actions fail to agree; believe the actions.

[Bald Eagle]

Geeze time to get my Indigenous membership renewed.

[short-circuit]

And the fact that their actions advantage them and only them is entirely coincidental?

When an entity's words and actions fail to agree; believe the actions.

I see this action as far more beneficial to me than asset sales and I'm ngati-pakehahahahaha.

[Bassmatt]

When an entity's words and actions fail to agree; believe the actions.

Agree with that. Fucking Govt. is full of shit.

[BoristheBiter]

Dunno about the treaty... but try this for size dickweed... United Nations DRIPS (http://www.un.org/esa/socdev/unpfii/documents/DRIPS_en.pdf)

Article 4 and Article 8 being a couple of faves

won't even waste my time reading any lefty whitey apologetic shit never mind anything you post up.
It will be just as irrelevant as you.

[short-circuit]

won't even waste my time reading any lefty whitey apologetic shit never mind anything you post up.
It will be just as irrelevant as you.

It's called international law....nothing lefty about it

[skinman]

so if the maori get ownership of the water are they going to charge for use of it?
If they do, and I think it is probable they will, power prices will rise (more)
and is that going to impact on the drinking water supply?

Personally I am sick of the so called natives claiming monatary compensation for all sorts of supposed injustices committed by people long dead. all bullshit

They are no more native than I am. They just happen to be the wave of immigrants just before the whites (english, dutch, french)
& just make up shit to get more money of a gutless govt.

reality is they are a warlike stoneage people trying to be dragged too quickly into the modern society too adjust & seem to believe they are owed something for it. Time to cut the strings & for them to get over themselves. Need money? Get a job like the rest of us have to.

[Akzle]

What makes it sad is no doubt they will get it or at least waste millions of taxpayers money having it discussed.What part of "partys over fuck off" do we find so hard to say?
reckon. back to mother england white cunts!

It'll end when the Gubbermint stops trying to sell the means of energy generation to overseas interests.
that's one opinion. and i think that's probably where the move started, and people have lost sight of that.


However the average Kiwi's blind racist rage at anything "IWI" based is being used to distract Whitey from the fact that his brown brethren are making a better fist of preventing these unwanted sales from going ahead.
...+1


...
I've about had enough of this govt's total denial of NZ'ers voices being heard when it comes to what we want as a country, (smacking bill, for instance) a referendum and like their red brothers before them, they ignored it!)...
If we assumed that this is in fact their objective and if they succeed, how much is it going to cost every OTHER ( you know,non brown invader) NZ'er to live here, what with having to support all of them in they way to which they are quickly becoming used to.
baha. hahahha. hah.
i really don't get what white cunts' problems is.
right now, the "crown" claims ALL land, air, water, wild animals etc. the murrees are counter claiming that. I counter claim that.

if you want to broadcast radio-magnetic waves, you beg the government (and pay for it). if you don't. you get a visit from the policy enforcement division.
if you want to bore water off "your" land, you beg the government (and pay for it). if you don't. you get a visit from the policy enforcement division.
if you want to put an antenna in the airspace above "your" land, you beg the government (and pay for it). if you don't. you get a visit from the policy enforcement division.
if you want to mine for oil or gold on "your" land, you beg the government (and pay for it). if you don't. you get a visit from the policy enforcement division.
et-fucking-cetera.
you don't own shit. you live at the dictates of your government. you keep paying them for the "priviledge" of holding title to "your" land/house etc.

so whats so fucking hard to understand that "maoridom" should own this shit, instead of the government/"crown"?. and who's to say, even if they do get "ownership" that they'll put your land rates/water rates/ broadcasting license fees/ hunting permit fees/ forestry permits fees up???
the only people who stand to benefit from maintaining the status quo are those who get to the bank on it. (read: politicians.)


I see most of you are falling for the divide and conquer method that our friends in Govt. love to use. Makes a great distraction from the real issues too.
Mr Key and previous Govts. have stated that no-one owns water, so where the fuck do they get off selling the use of it.

plus ditty one one.
(except that while JK is saying no-one owns shit, they're making YOU, subject of the state, pay for it. huh. good fucking deal.)

[BoristheBiter]

It's called international law....nothing lefty about it

Really? even though aunty helen is 3IC?

Why do you think she went for that job and not the world bank?

The UN is so wet bus ticket and are of no value.

[short-circuit]

Really? even though aunty helen is 3IC?

Why do you think she went for that job and not the world bank?

The UN is so wet bus ticket and are of no value.

2007 pre dates her by a long way....and yeah fuck laws and rights and shit

[mashman]

won't even waste my time reading any lefty whitey apologetic shit never mind anything you post up.
It will be just as irrelevant as you.

:killingme... and there is the attitude that keeps the country ticking along without any form of cohesive direction. A dickhead posted something and a dickhead won't read it on that basis. Weakness personified.
Ouch, that really stung you heartless brute.

[mashman]

if you want to broadcast radio-magnetic waves, you beg the government (and pay for it). if you don't. you get a visit from the policy enforcement division.
if you want to bore water off "your" land, you beg the government (and pay for it). if you don't. you get a visit from the policy enforcement division.
if you want to put an antenna in the airspace above "your" land, you beg the government (and pay for it). if you don't. you get a visit from the policy enforcement division.
if you want to mine for oil or gold on "your" land, you beg the government (and pay for it). if you don't. you get a visit from the policy enforcement division.
et-fucking-cetera.


Yet but another finger in the pie can only mean the price of the services will go up. That FACT is based on solid evidence gained from internet forums and the little voices that tell me that White people are inherently fuckin stupid.

[Ocean1]

I see this action as far more beneficial to me than asset sales and I'm ngati-pakehahahahaha.

Can't see why, either is going to see a water meter in your front lawn.

[BoristheBiter]

2007 pre dates her by a long way....and yeah fuck laws and rights and shit

Yep when those laws put one above the other based on colour or creed then they can get fucked.

[Akzle]

Yep when those laws put one above the other based on colour or creed then they can get fucked.

psssssshhhhhht.
you voted for them (glubberminnut) to make those decisions/laws for you. your complaining rights are null and void until the next election.

shush.

[scumdog]

This thread is hilarious!!!:woohoo:

"We're all one people, all New Zealanders"

"piss off bro, not even"

[caseye]

"not even Eiouuu" ,please kind sir, to give it it's full usage.
Bloody funny though you believe that you probably believe that Santa was a bloody Kraut!

[Akzle]

"not even Eiouuu" ,please kind sir, to give it it's full usage.
Bloody funny though you believe that you probably believe that Santa was a bloody Kraut!

Die Saint Nikolaus.

[pete376403]

Solid Energy value looking doubtful (Spring Creek halting mining, Huntly layoffs, Pike River unlikely to reopen), Meridians biggest customer (Tiwai aluminium smelter) laying off 100 and wanting to renegotiate the price they pay for electricity, plus water rights issue, maybe not such a good idea to be putting these assets on the block right now.

[mossy1200]

Seems strange that somone wants to own and charge for something that was made West of NZ by climit and delivered by systems made by others.
The asset is the method of containment or use of.
If IWI want to charge for water or a product of water nobody is stopping them from using the asset of cash to buy the delivery or containment systems or building more to compete in the market place.
If the rest of NZ cant send IWI a bill for water damage why should NZ pay for water?

[Matariki]

Before I get started, I would like to state that I am Maori/Pakeha, though I have nothing to do with Ngaipuhu (I'm Ngai Tahu and Ngati Kahungunu Ki Wairoa) and I had no idea about the 'wind claim' yet alone the 'water claim' until this thread popped up. Now, I personally find it a pet peeve of mine when people refer to us Maori as those 'greedy bastards' or 'bloody murrays' (even though David Rankin probably fits into both categories), because of incidents like this. No, not all Maori agree with David Rankin, including myself. So, i'll try and give an educated response to why I do disagree with David Rankin.

Firstly I did some digging around and found something interesting;

David Rankin claims in this article that Ngapuhi did not sign the treaty of Waitangi -http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO0802/S00163.htm

Lets point out some facts here:


An Iwi (tribe) is usually made up of subtribes (hapu's) which have their own councils made up of chiefs and elders (Rangatira/Gentry Class).

The treaty of Waitangi is a constitution made up of the representing bodies of the British Crown and the leading Maori Chiefs of New Zealand/Aotearoa, which recognized Maori ownership of their lands and other properties, and gave the Māori the rights of British subjects. However, the understanding of the treaty of Waitangi was the following: From the British point of view, the treaty gave Britain sovereignty over New Zealand, and gave the Governor the right to govern the country. From the Maori view point, they believed they ceded to the Crown a right of governance in return for protection, without giving up their authority to manage their own affairs.

35 Northern chiefs signed the treaty of Waitangi. In February 1840, the chiefs of Ngāpuhi met with the lieutenant-governor William Hobson, the official British resident James Busby, and the missionary Henry Williams, to consider signing the Treaty of Waitangi. Led by the Bay of Islands chiefs, the group initially rejected the treaty, although a minority spoke in favour of signing. Eventually Hōne Heke and Tāmati Wāka Nene, from the Hokianga, persuaded the remaining chiefs to sign, drawing on the assurances from Hobson and Williams that the treaty was intended primarily to protect Māori land and interests from the French and unscrupulous settlers. On 6 February 1840, 43 Ngāpuhi chiefs, led by Hōne Heke, signed the treaty. Over the following months a further 100 or more Ngāpuhi chiefs signed.


http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/tribal-organisation/1
http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/ngapuhi/5
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Waitangi

It could be that David Rankin's hapu did not sign the treaty of Waitangi, however the fact remains that a large majority (including the chiefs with the most mana/power) of Ngapuhi did. Which means that David Rankin's claim of Ngapuhi not signing the treaty of Waitangi is incorrect. Another fact that needs to be brought up is that David Rankin's ancestors could of sold the land in question to a neighboring hapu who did sign the treaty of Waitangi or sold it to a Pakehea. Either way, that means the land no longer belongs to David Rankin's hapu, including the wind and water that passes through it. If David Rankin and his hapu wants to claim the 'wind' that passes through the property, first he would need to repurchase the land. But his real interest isn't in preserving the land or the culture of Ngapuhi, his interest is in getting a large chunk out of the financial pie.

Another thing too, claiming that the wind is a deity does not count as a cause for granted ownership over land or anything else that goes through it (if David Rankin is going to go through that route, he will need to compete with the other polytheistic and pantheistic religions who also claim the wind as their deity).

In short, this is a very sad attempt at trying to get money into David Rankin's hapu's coffers (or more specifically, into his own pockets), and at what cost? The reputation of not just his hapu but the Maori in general who have nothing and want nothing to do with this twit?

Watch this video and you'll see what I mean: :facepalm:

http://www.3news.co.nz/Treaty-gives-us-the-wind---Ngapuhi-leader/tabid/370/articleID/268086/Default.aspx

[ducatilover]

If Mr Rankin claims his Hapu did not sign the Treaty/Te Tiriti/stuff then he himself cannot make a claim with the Tribunal, can he?
He's a stupid git anyway and Hotkebab is right about his dirtying the name of other Maori (although, nobody likes Ngapuhi anyway)

But I know nussing, I is a whitey

[BoristheBiter]

psssssshhhhhht.
you voted for them (glubberminnut) to make those decisions/laws for you. your complaining rights are null and void until the next election.

shush.

Yer na... sorry bro didn't get to vote on your racist maori roll.
I voted for the removal of them not to climb into bed with some dirty hori, sorry Hone.

[98tls]

This thread is hilarious!!!:woohoo:

"We're all one people, all New Zealanders"

"piss off bro, not even"

Imagine the weather forecasts if Maori take control of the wind from god, "gusty northwesterlies" no chance, we would have endless "lazy southwesters".

[MisterD]

It's called international law....nothing lefty about it

No. UN General Assembly declarations are not legally binding under international law.

It's one of the only things I'll give the Klarkenfuhrer any credit for, she refused to sign up to it...that required Mr Spineless on one of his first roll-overs for the separatists.

[imdying]

Geeze time to get my Indigenous membership renewed.

I have considered this myself. I'm a person of the land, I was born here... I never taken much interest in genealogy, but I do know I'm at least third generation New Zealander. My Mana comes from the land here in New Zealand, I am for all intents and purposes tangata whenua.

I assume that means I can join a tribe and get on the gravy train?

[Ocean1]

I have considered this myself. I'm a person of the land, I was born here... I never taken much interest in genealogy, but I do know I'm at least third generation New Zealander. My Mana comes from the land here in New Zealand, I am for all intents and purposes tangata whenua.

That's the entry criteria for brown kiwis, not you skinny arsed white bastards.

[BoristheBiter]

That's the entry criteria for brown kiwis,

Here's me thinking it was wife beating and kid killing.

[Brian d marge]

The international banking system , doesnt give a toss about your feelings ,

its all about Money

You may have a chance under the treaty of waitangi ,

Sorry but thats the facts

Stephen

[imdying]

That's the entry criteria for brown kiwis, not you skinny arsed white bastards.Ahhhhh, I am a brown kiwi!

[Ocean1]

Ahhhhh, I am a brown kiwi!

I am not getting into a discussion about your arse.

[imdying]

Seriously bro, I'm at least as brown as Tipene O'regan...

[Akzle]

I voted for the removal of them not to climb into bed with some dirty hori, sorry Hone.
there's the problem.
so sit down and fuck up until 2014. your opinion doesn't matter.


Here's me thinking it was wife beating and kid killing.
don't lie. it's bad karma.

[Road kill]

I have considered this myself. I'm a person of the land, I was born here... I never taken much interest in genealogy, but I do know I'm at least third generation New Zealander. My Mana comes from the land here in New Zealand, I am for all intents and purposes tangata whenua.

I assume that means I can join a tribe and get on the gravy train?

If you can quote/prove your Whakapapa,you could indeed join the gravy train.

Your only real issue would be that this "Gravy train" does not exist outside of some peoples imagination.

Believe me if it did I'd be registering on the Maori electoral role,which I'm not and never will be because I support the principals of modern NZ,not the return to the old Ariki system that people like Harawera would put in place to any Maori foolish enough buy into his "barely" hidden agendas.

Something that constantly amazes me is the stupid belief of so many Kiwis that claim Maori want to "own" things like water or the latest one "the wind".

Even though it's been pointed out time after time,I'll say it again,,,Maori want a share in the commercial use of NZ's natural resourses,,,something that has constantly been denieghed them until they have forced the issue.

What's the old saying,,,you want 10%,,,so push for 20%,,,,seems it's the only real way to get your 5% huh.

See,us Murrays catch on quick aye bro.

As for the fuckwit Rankin claiming that NgaPuhi did not sign the treaty,I have three ancestors "all Ngapuhi that did sign it.

[Road kill]

Here's me thinking it was wife beating and kid killing.

So what is it for honkies cunt?

Kiddie fiddling and ripping of little old ladies for their life saving ?

Dick:sick:


Waiting for the infraction from the resident one armed pot head:corn:

[Ocean1]

Seriously bro, I'm at least as brown as Tipene O'regan...

Bro! can you sort me out some toheroa?

[98tls]

If you can quote/prove your Whakapapa,you could indeed join the gravy train.

Your only real issue would be that this "Gravy train" does not exist outside of some peoples imagination.

Believe me if it did I'd be registering on the Maori electoral role,which I'm not and never will be because I support the principals of modern NZ,not the return to the old Ariki system that people like Harawera would put in place to any Maori foolish enough buy into his "barely" hidden agendas.

Something that constantly amazes me is the stupid belief of so many Kiwis that claim Maori want to "own" things like water or the latest one "the wind".

Even though it's been pointed out time after time,I'll say it again,,,Maori want a share in the commercial use of NZ's natural resourses,,,something that has constantly been denieghed them until they have forced the issue.

Heres an idea eh...get up go do the hard yards like every other New Zealander.Couldnt give a rats about anyones skin colour until people start using it to benefit (xcuse the pun) themselves over groups of another.I couldnt give a fuck what happened to my grandfathers grandfather,water under the bridge eh and i see no reason why whatever happened to yours should be to the dettriment of New Zealand and all that currently live in it.

[Fatt Max]

As a British citizen all I want to know is when I am getting my shoota's back?

Them old tools will fetch a pretty penny and no mistake...

[Akzle]

...I couldnt give a fuck what happened to my grandfathers grandfather,water under the bridge eh and i see no reason why whatever happened to yours should be to the dettriment of New Zealand and all that currently live in it.

yeah it would be well and good if it was all left in the past... but these cunts still vote for politicians... parliament and police still exist...all in, that shit's pretty detrimental to aotearoa/NZ.

[98tls]

yeah it would be well and good if it was all left in the past... but these cunts still vote for politicians... parliament and police still exist...all in, that shit's pretty detrimental to aotearoa/NZ.

Uh huh,we could go another way and be rid of both police and politicians.Germany did with great success for a year or 2 but didnt seem to work longterm.

[mashman]

Uh huh,we could go another way and be rid of both police and politicians.Germany did with great success for a year or 2 but didnt seem to work longterm.

musta been because of the black indigenous Nazi's...

[flyingcrocodile46]

Before I get started, I would like to state that I am Maori/Pakeha, though I have nothing to do with Ngaipuhu (I'm Ngai Tahu and Ngati Kahungunu Ki Wairoa) and I had no idea about the 'wind claim' yet alone the 'water claim' until this thread popped up. Now, I personally find it a pet peeve of mine when people refer to us Maori as those 'greedy bastards' or 'bloody murrays' (even though David Rankin probably fits into both categories), because of incidents like this. No, not all Maori agree with David Rankin, including myself. So, i'll try and give an educated response to why I do disagree with David Rankin.

Firstly I did some digging around and found something interesting;

David Rankin claims in this article that Ngapuhi did not sign the treaty of Waitangi -http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO0802/S00163.htm

Lets point out some facts here:


An Iwi (tribe) is usually made up of subtribes (hapu's) which have their own councils made up of chiefs and elders (Rangatira/Gentry Class).
The treaty of Waitangi is a constitution made up of the representing bodies of the British Crown and the leading Maori Chiefs of New Zealand/Aotearoa, which recognized Maori ownership of their lands and other properties, and gave the Māori the rights of British subjects. However, the understanding of the treaty of Waitangi was the following: From the British point of view, the treaty gave Britain sovereignty over New Zealand, and gave the Governor the right to govern the country. From the Maori view point, they believed they ceded to the Crown a right of governance in return for protection, without giving up their authority to manage their own affairs.
35 Northern chiefs signed the treaty of Waitangi. In February 1840, the chiefs of Ngāpuhi met with the lieutenant-governor William Hobson, the official British resident James Busby, and the missionary Henry Williams, to consider signing the Treaty of Waitangi. Led by the Bay of Islands chiefs, the group initially rejected the treaty, although a minority spoke in favour of signing. Eventually Hōne Heke and Tāmati Wāka Nene, from the Hokianga, persuaded the remaining chiefs to sign, drawing on the assurances from Hobson and Williams that the treaty was intended primarily to protect Māori land and interests from the French and unscrupulous settlers. On 6 February 1840, 43 Ngāpuhi chiefs, led by Hōne Heke, signed the treaty. Over the following months a further 100 or more Ngāpuhi chiefs signed.


http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/tribal-organisation/1
http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/ngapuhi/5
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Waitangi

It could be that David Rankin's hapu did not sign the treaty of Waitangi, however the fact remains that a large majority (including the chiefs with the most mana/power) of Ngapuhi did. Which means that David Rankin's claim of Ngapuhi not signing the treaty of Waitangi is incorrect. Another fact that needs to be brought up is that David Rankin's ancestors could of sold the land in question to a neighboring hapu who did sign the treaty of Waitangi or sold it to a Pakehea. Either way, that means the land no longer belongs to David Rankin's hapu, including the wind and water that passes through it. If David Rankin and his hapu wants to claim the 'wind' that passes through the property, first he would need to repurchase the land. But his real interest isn't in preserving the land or the culture of Ngapuhi, his interest is in getting a large chunk out of the financial pie.

Another thing too, claiming that the wind is a deity does not count as a cause for granted ownership over land or anything else that goes through it (if David Rankin is going to go through that route, he will need to compete with the other polytheistic and pantheistic religions who also claim the wind as their deity).

In short, this is a very sad attempt at trying to get money into David Rankin's hapu's coffers (or more specifically, into his own pockets), and at what cost? The reputation of not just his hapu but the Maori in general who have nothing and want nothing to do with this twit?

Watch this video and you'll see what I mean: :facepalm:

http://www.3news.co.nz/Treaty-gives-us-the-wind---Ngapuhi-leader/tabid/370/articleID/268086/Default.aspx

That seems like a well informed opinion.

My issue with the concept of Maori wanting a share in the commercial benefits from natural elements (air/wind and water) which are created by and belong to mother nature, is simple.

They have had no hand in creating or maintaining the elements.
The wind and water isn't theirs any more than anyone else's (unless they manufacture or harvest them) and they are owed nothing by them.
From what I can see, the majority if not all of the commercial value of our water and wind comes from investment/work in which the Maori have contributed neither sweat equity or capital investment).
No offer to accept responsibility for the negative economic impacts of their assets running amok flooding homes and ripping roofs off.

However, if they have actually been disadvantaged by the actions of others in the manipulation or harvesting of the elements (i.e loss of access to their food source or commuting facilities) then fair enough. They should be compensated.

If claims were more realistic and didn't represent attempts to get something for nothing, I would be more supportive. As it stands I think you can go fuck yourselves.

Now lets talk about the damage your fucking earthquakes are causing.:bash:

[98tls]

musta been because of the black indigenous Nazi's...

Old wives tale that,truth is it failed for lack of waving,miles and miles of bahn full of non wavers,the result inevitable really.:oi-grr:

[Nova.]

http://cdn.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/anchorman-well-that-escalated-quickly.jpg

[Matariki]

That seems like a well informed opinion.

My issue with the concept of Maori wanting a share in the commercial benefits from natural elements (air/wind and water) which are created by and belong to mother nature, is simple.

They have had no hand in creating or maintaining the elements.
The wind and water isn't theirs any more than anyone else's (unless they manufacture or harvest them) and they are owed nothing by them.
From what I can see, the majority if not all of the commercial value of our water and wind comes from investment/work in which the Maori have contributed neither sweat equity or capital investment).
No offer to accept responsibility for the negative economic impacts of their assets running amok flooding homes and ripping roofs off.

However, if they have actually been disadvantaged by the actions of others in the manipulation or harvesting of the elements (i.e loss of access to their food source or commuting facilities) then fair enough. They should be compensated.

If claims were more realistic and didn't represent attempts to get something for nothing, I would be more supportive. As it stands I think you can go fuck yourselves.

Now lets talk about the damage your fucking earthquakes are causing.:bash:

For me this is an interesting situation because I was brought up seeing both sides of the fence (my father is Pakeha and my mother is Maori).

I've been searching on the net, and I found a radio interview with David Rankin discussing about the wind claim:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofwUcO9idn4

Here is what I gathered from David Rankin's interview;

Firstly, the wind claim is serious. http://velosport.zp.ua/public/style_emoticons/default/trollface-mini%5B1%5D.png

http://images.tvnz.co.nz/tvnz_images/news2010/close-up/cu_hone_030810_300.jpg

The nature of the claim is that the wind is a resource to the Ngapuhi people and Maori in general. If the crown can use it for commercial gain, Maori should be entitled to a share of the profits even if the power company involved is privatized. David Rankin appears to be pretty upset with the fact that apparently what should be our (or more technically his) money might be going to an overseas investor who actually put money into the company in the first place.

The claimants are several Hapu from the Ngapuhi Iwi including three leading Ngapuhi leaders. David Rankin is acting as the spokesperson on behalf of those Hapu and their leaders. http://business.scoop.co.nz/2012/09/04/wind-to-be-subject-of-next-treaty-claim/

The state of the wind claim is currently in the same position as the water claim was back in June. For anyone interested, here are David Rankin's feelings about the water claim:
Ngapuhi Leader Critical Of “Greedy” Water Claim (http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1207/S00218/ngapuhi-leader-critical-of-greedy-water-claim.htm)

The hapu representatives want a pan-tribal agreement established so they can manage shares in commercial wind-generated electricity, exercise a casting vote on where wind turbines can be located.

David Rankin believes that once something becomes a commercial asset then ownership of that something needs to be brought into question, he then goes onto to state that "In reality, nobody owns the wind, nobody owns the water, but when there is a commercial value placed upon it, when it has a monetary value, that's when ownership is in question" :facepalm:

According to David Rankin; us ordinary Kiwis should be listening carefully to what is being said. He then goes onto to state that we are doing our predecessors an injustice by selling off state owned enterprises that they put their own money into (through tax payments mind you). Not to mention that we are doing a mistake by going against Maori claims (despite the fact David Rankin spoke out recently against the water claim) and that Maori are the ones who are putting the 'spanner in the works' and slowing down the process of privatization. He then goes onto to say "if you sell your family home and you become a renter, you have nothing." as a figure of speech for 'if you sell New Zealand's assets, then New Zealander's will have nothing they can call their own'.

David Rankin reveals that his statement "traditionally the wind was a regarded as a deity in Maori society and Maori did not consider the crown to have the right to use it without Maori consent." was just as I suspected, nothing more than a means to appeal to the heart strings of the politically correct minded who didn't know any better.

David Rankin states that in article 2 of the Treaty of Waitangi, Maori can claim any resource of commercial value. Here is article 2 of the Treaty of Waitangi;


Article the second [Article 2]
Her Majesty the Queen of England confirms and guarantees to the Chiefs and Tribes of New Zealand and to the respective families and individuals thereof the full exclusive and undisturbed possession of their Lands and Estates Forests Fisheries and other properties which they may collectively or individually possess so long as it is their wish and desire to retain the same in their possession; but the Chiefs of the United Tribes and the individual Chiefs yield to Her Majesty the exclusive right of Preemption over such lands as the proprietors thereof may be disposed to alienate at such prices as may be agreed upon between the respective Proprietors and persons appointed by Her Majesty to treat with them in that behalf.

I won't post the Te Reo Maori version of the article, instead I'll post the basic understanding of Article the second from the Maori perspective;


Second article
In the English text, Māori leaders and people, collectively and individually, were confirmed and guaranteed 'exclusive and undisturbed possession of their lands and estates, forests, fisheries and other properties'. Māori also agreed to the Crown's exclusive right to purchase their land. Some Māori (and British) later stated that they understood the Crown to have a first option rather than an exclusive right to buy.

In the Māori text, Māori were guaranteed 'te tino rangatiratanga' or the unqualified exercise of their chieftainship over their lands, villages, and all their property and treasures. Māori also agreed to give the Crown the right to buy their land if they wished to sell it. It is not certain if the Maori text clearly conveyed the implications of exclusive Crown purchase.

So in accordance to both articles, David Rankin can only 'claim' the wind if he and his Hapu owns the land that the wind goes through. There is nothing to state in either articles that Pakeha cannot use the resources on their land without Maori permission.

There are more articles on David Rankin and other stuff here: http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/

[Brian d marge]

For me this is an interesting situation because I was brought up seeing both sides of the fence (my father is Pakeha and my mother is Maori).

I've been searching on the net, and I found a radio interview with David Rankin discussing about the wind claim;


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofwUcO9idn4

Here is what I gathered from David Rankin's interview;

Firstly, the wind claim is serious. http://velosport.zp.ua/public/style_emoticons/default/trollface-mini[1].png - kind of looks David Rankin...

http://images.tvnz.co.nz/tvnz_images/news2010/close-up/cu_hone_030810_300.jpg

The nature of the claim is that the wind is a resource to the Ngapuhi people and Maori in general. If the crown can use it for commercial gain, Maori should be entitled to a share of the profits even if the power company involved is privatized. David Rankin appears to be pretty upset with the fact that apparently what should be our (or more technically his) money might be going to an overseas investor who actually put money into the company in the first place.

The claimants are several Hapu from the Ngapuhi Iwi including three leading Ngapuhi leaders. David Rankin is acting as the spokesperson on behalf of those Hapu and their leaders. http://business.scoop.co.nz/2012/09/04/wind-to-be-subject-of-next-treaty-claim/

The state of the wind claim is currently in the same position as the water claim was back in June. For anyone interested, here are David Rankin's feelings about the water claim:
Ngapuhi Leader Critical Of “Greedy” Water Claim (http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1207/S00218/ngapuhi-leader-critical-of-greedy-water-claim.htm)

The hapu representatives want a pan-tribal agreement established so they can manage shares in commercial wind-generated electricity, exercise a casting vote on where wind turbines can be located.

David Rankin believes that once something becomes a commercial asset then ownership of that something needs to be brought into question, he then goes onto to state that "In reality, nobody owns the wind, nobody owns the water, but when there is a commercial value placed upon it, when it has a monetary value, that's when ownership is in question" :facepalm:

According to David Rankin; us ordinary Kiwis should be listening carefully to what is being said. He then goes onto to state that we are doing our predecessors an injustice by selling off state owned enterprises that they put their own money into (through tax payments mind you). Not to mention that we are doing a mistake by going against Maori claims (despite the fact David Rankin spoke out recently against the water claim) and that Maori are the ones who are putting the 'spanner in the works' and slowing down the process of privatization. He then goes onto to say "if you sell your family home and you become a renter, you have nothing." as a figure of speech for 'if you sell New Zealand's assets, then New Zealander's will have nothing they can call their own'.

David Rankin reveals that his statement "traditionally the wind was a regarded as a deity in Maori society and Maori did not consider the crown to have the right to use it without Maori consent." was just as I suspected, nothing more than a means to appeal to the heart strings of the politically correct minded who didn't know any better.

David Rankin states that in article 2 of the Treaty of Waitangi, Maori can claim any resource of commercial value. Here is article 2 of the Treaty of Waitangi;



I won't post the Te Reo Maori version of the article, instead I'll post the basic understanding of Article the second from the Maori perspective;



So in accordance to both articles, David Rankin can only 'claim' the wind if he and his Hapu owns the land that the wind goes through. There is nothing to state in either articles that Pakeha cannot use the resources on their land without Maori permission.

There are more articles on David Rankin and other stuff here: http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/

Did I not say that this wasn’t about Maori or any one , and all about overseas investors ( as helped by the IMF) , the sooner people wake up to the fact that the Bank(s) do not give a flying toss about you , me the envrionment , your mums saving , its all about making money ......

oh and "saving money" wont help either .....the systems not set up for that , is all about debt , and the creation of debt ....

Go Maori ... for the look of some of them , they sure have more smarts than whitey ....

Stephen

[Matariki]

I must warn you, you might lose a few IQ points listening to David Rankin in the interview I posted above. I know I just did... :brick:

[liljegren]

In 1975, the legal definition of being " maori" was changed. (please correct me if I'm wrong). From this time on, it seems to me, that those people who wished to claim themselves maori have had a pretty clear agenda; claiming power, and thereby influence, and money.
It makes no sense for modern New Zealanders to refer to their native 'whakapapa' without also referring to the rest of their blood mix. Since no 'pure maori' people exist, it follows that everyone in aotearoa is actually 'part maori' or non 'part maori'.
I am sure that if maori principles were applied to the care of our resources, we would not be considering selling anything to overseas investors. Also, if Jewish principles were applied, we would not sell anything to anyone. In fact, if we applied the common sense of any intelligent person we would not sell anything. Maori cannot claim the moral high ground on asset sales, since they are just brown New Zealanders, hoping for the same things as non brown NZers.
If we were to all pull our heads in a ted, we could all agree that we all want NZ to belong to "us".
Maori are not a separate group, they are one of the peoples who came to the Shakey Isles, along with all the others. The fact that they landed before some others gives them no special rights or priveleges.
As a parting comment, I invite anyone who thinks otherwise, to go back from whence they came.
That may well be Korea, if you are of the brown persuasion.

[BoristheBiter]

So what is it for honkies cunt?

Kiddie fiddling and ripping of little old ladies for their life saving ?

Dick:sick:


Waiting for the infraction from the resident one armed pot head:corn:

:rofl: even the green writing wanker didn't bite as well as that.

Boris 1, road kill 0.

[Akzle]

...
Maori are not a separate group, they are one of the peoples who came to the Shakey Isles, along with all the others. The fact that they landed before some others gives them no special rights or priveleges.
As a parting comment, I invite anyone who thinks otherwise, to go back from whence they came.
That may well be Korea, if you are of the brown persuasion.

generally agree.

but the middle class need some way to differentiate them from the rest of the unwashed while they're complaining about politics., otherwise they might start to notice that they're just the hamsters on the treadmills...

and it's not the fact that we were here first. it's the fact that the "crown" (who the fuck is that???) pressed an illegal contract on an illiterate peoples and swindled the country for the benefit of the banks and "government". (city of london, anyone?), and have continued fucking the area known as NZ/aotearoa, since, and still do today.
that maoridom want to protect our shit... i see nothing wrong with that.

[BoristheBiter]

generally agree.

but the middle class need some way to differentiate them from the rest of the unwashed while they're complaining about politics., otherwise they might start to notice that they're just the hamsters on the treadmills...

and it's not the fact that we were here first. it's the fact that the "crown" (who the fuck is that???) pressed an illegal contract on an illiterate peoples and swindled the country for the benefit of the banks and "government". (city of london, anyone?), and have continued fucking the area known as NZ/aotearoa, since, and still do today.
that maoridom want to protect our shit... i see nothing wrong with that.

No I can't see anything wrong with protecting your shit, hell I would, but the air and water that was here 150 years ago is long gone.

If you always look at the past you will never move forward, but then your great Hone would never let you as he would lose his gravy train.
Ever wondered why he never says anything nice about anyone? Divide and conquer.

[Swoop]

David Rankin is a plumber, so naturally knows how to charge exhorbitant rates and suggest ridiculous amounts of money be exchanged.

Perfect for the role, really.

[Akzle]

Uh huh,we could go another way and be rid of both police and politicians.Germany did with great success for a year or 2 but didnt seem to work longterm.
o yeah. when was that? i thought a lot of their mid-forties problems (i assume that was your gist) came about with too much police and politicianing... something to do with an elected socialist government... but hell.. no-one in this civilised day and age would prop up that kind of system.


o. wait on...

For me this is an interesting situation...
...Ever wondered why he never says anything nice about anyone? Divide and conquer.

your posts are WAY TOO LONG.

if you're going to post screeds of diatribe... change your font color to green :D :D

(i love how this "divide and conquer" phrasology is being bandied about. last month it was "clipping the ticket" these sales-pitch/tag-lines/media-catch-phrases are all terribly vogue.
unfortunately they only serve to (and do a good job of) distract/-ing the hamsters....)


David Rankin is a plumber, so naturally knows how to charge exhorbitant rates and suggest ridiculous amounts of money be exchanged.

Perfect for the role, really.

and it's not uncommon for them to be fist-deep in shit...

[jasonu]

Even though it's been pointed out time after time,I'll say it again,,,Maori want a share in the commercial use of NZ's natural resourses,,,something that has constantly been denieghed them until they have forced the issue.

.

I think you will find a lot of NZers are brassed off with Maoris wanting a 'share' of this or that and expecting it to be handed to them just because they are Maoris and 'were here first'. That boat should have sailed long ago. If you want a share of something go out and earn it just like everyone else.

[ducatilover]

I am sure that if maori principles were applied to the care of our resources, we would not be considering selling anything to overseas investors.

Are you aware that the Maori were very much in to overseas trading before the lovely Waitangi incident?

[BoristheBiter]

your posts are WAY TOO LONG.

if you're going to post screeds of diatribe... change your font color to green :D :D

(i love how this "divide and conquer" phrasology is being bandied about. last month it was "clipping the ticket" these sales-pitch/tag-lines/media-catch-phrases are all terribly vogue.
unfortunately they only serve to (and do a good job of) distract/-ing the hamsters....)[/COLOR]


At least he quotes the correct posts.

But i will bite,
Hone hates us whiteys, that a known fact, but what major changes has he accomplished for Maori, not just northern Maori but all Maori?
It just smacks of "united against the common enemy" so you hamsters will forget everything else.

[imdying]

I am sure that if maori principles were applied to the care of our resources, we would not be considering selling anything to overseas investors.You hear a little about Maori taking care of resources, like it's part of their culture or something. It's not. It's a lie espoused from a position of not being able to fuck with resources. The last time they had sufficient freedom to do that, they killed off the Moa. Given they are basically human, you can be your bottom dollar that if they'd been able to breed their population base up to a reasonable size, they would've raped and pillaged the land just like any other race. If they hadn't have been colonised, there is nothing to suggest that they would have given a shit about their resources, and it's only the result of history that they're in a position to mourn for 'their' resources from afar in a manner that suggests they would have handled them differently.

However, it still does not surprise me; you can't cram 2000 years of evolution into 200 years. Never gonna happen.

[awa355]

If the Maoris get to claim the wind in NZ, are we able to choose their wind, or the stuff that blows across the country, from around the planet?

Sorry! I forgot, if it blows away from the east coast, circles the globe and re appears over Taranaki, then it was the maoris wind to start with:yawn::yawn: Silly me:brick:

[Akzle]

At least he quotes the correct posts.


*she.
you f*ing moron

[jasonu]

If the Maoris claim and get the wind, rain, water, fish, dirt, pebbles, leaves, sticks, tin cans etc just remember it will not benefit the 'every day' Maori. Just a sellect few at the top of the tree will do very nicely thank you very much. Top paying jobs with top benefits/perks and top (white mans) retirement packages. The rest of you, either directly or indirectly, will get fuck all.

[mashman]

Old wives tale that,truth is it failed for lack of waving,miles and miles of bahn full of non wavers,the result inevitable really.:oi-grr:

:shit: waving at those speeds? are you out of your mind (rhetorical)... I hope wearing silly hats will redress the balance, else we're doomed.

[scumdog]

At least he quotes the correct posts.

But i will bite,
Hone hates us whiteys, that a known fact, but what major changes has he accomplished for Maori, not just northern Maori but all Maori?
It just smacks of "united against the common enemy" so you hamsters will forget everything else.

So you're saying: until ALL Maori are united they'll never get anywhere.?

I won't argue..

[Indiana_Jones]

Hone hates us whiteys, that a known fact, but what major changes has he accomplished for Maori, not just northern Maori but all Maori?
It just smacks of "united against the common enemy" so you hamsters will forget everything else.

It's a tactic the old Argie politicians like to do, mention the Falklands to divert your mind from our other BS lol

-Indy

[liljegren]

I'm glad Hone Harawera's name has entered this discussion. He is a loud mouthed, disagreeable part maori. His mother has purple hair. He is slightly MORE maori than me. If he wishes to trace his whakapapa back far enough, he will discover that he is basically Korean, or Taiwanese. However, by mastering the art of oratory (basically talking shit loudly) he has managed to convince some other part maori up north, that he is special, an deserves special consideration.
Where are all the politicians with bone in their nose? We know where to find those with bones THRU their noses!
I suggest we cast off the Motherland, and learn to enjoy NZ, each of us with what we need and work for, nothing more complex than that.

[Matariki]

I found out something interesting today when I went out for a stroll enjoying the spring breeze. Apparently thinking about David$ WINZ claim can cause dead, Rank'in possums to fall out of the sky. This one here landed on me before it hit the ground. I'm still trying to figure out what this means...

http://s13.postimage.org/kvxv8wrg5/laura_1.jpg

[scumdog]

I suggest we cast off the Motherland, and learn to enjoy NZ, each of us with what we need and work for, nothing more complex than that.

I concur!:Punk:

[ducatilover]

I found out something interesting today when I went out for a stroll enjoying the spring breeze. Apparently thinking about David$ WINZ claim can cause dead, Rank'in possums to fall out of the sky. This one here landed on me before it hit the ground. I'm still trying to figure out what this means...



I saw this once after sifting deeply in tea leaves, something about purgatory wanting Rankin back, I think.

[Muppet]

Water, Air - that only leaves fire.

You left out radio waves.

[short-circuit]

I'm glad Hone Harawera's name has entered this discussion. He is a loud mouthed, disagreeable part maori. His mother has purple hair. He is slightly MORE maori than me. If he wishes to trace his whakapapa back far enough, he will discover that he is basically Korean, or Taiwanese. However, by mastering the art of oratory (basically talking shit loudly) he has managed to convince some other part maori up north, that he is special, an deserves special consideration.
Where are all the politicians with bone in their nose? We know where to find those with bones THRU their noses!
I suggest we cast off the Motherland, and learn to enjoy NZ, each of us with what we need and work for, nothing more complex than that.


Hone is great. My number one pollie - and I'm a Greens voter.

His pot shots (at misguided and self serving Maori who either sneakily or stupidly try for gains for their people by working with the very people that are fucking them over) are on the money.

On a seperate but related point, If these claims can stall or derail Asset sales (that are criminally shortsighted, unpopular and fisically woeful), then go Maori. As JD pointed out, this is the main intent behind the claims and Maori "ownership" in their sense of the word will be far more beneficial to me than privatisation.

[jim.cox]

More pigs 'n troughs revealed in today's paper...

Sir Peter Jackson's plans to build a world-class film museum in Shelly Bay were scuppered when Sir Ngatata Love's partner sought $750,000 in consultancy fees to help secure the land.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/film/7636786/Why-LOTR-museum-was-ditched

:sigh:

[Maha]

And what will happen to the people, when the day comes when the child no longer owes his exsistance to his two biological parents?

[flyingcrocodile46]

More pigs 'n troughs revealed in today's paper...

Sir Peter Jackson's plans to build a world-class film museum in Shelly Bay were scuppered when Sir Ngatata Love's partner sought $750,000 in consultancy fees to help secure the land.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/film/7636786/Why-LOTR-museum-was-ditched

:sigh:

If the wider Maori population had any motivation and real cultural pride (instead of feigned pride and/or apathy) they wouldn't allow self serving wankers like that to represent them at any level.

[mashman]

If the wider Maori population had any motivation and real cultural pride (instead of feigned pride and/or apathy) they wouldn't allow self serving wankers like that to represent them at any level.

heh... you could say the same for whitey mcwhite. Praps we have more in common than we think :shit: (people being people n all)

[Ocean1]

Praps we have more in common than we think :shit: (people being people n all)

Yup. Read the sig.

[flyingcrocodile46]

Yup. Read the sig.
Nice.


heh... you could say the same for whitey mcwhite. Praps we have more in common than we think :shit: (people being people n all)

Indeed, but given that such a small minority attends the various Maori meetings that bestow leadership roles (my guess would be well less than 5% of those eligible to vote), it would be a lot easier to gain control of the leadership roles with a small number of voters (which is exactly what the current leadership have done)

[mashman]

Yup. Read the sig.



Indeed, but given that such a small minority attends the various Maori meetings that bestow leadership roles (my guess would be well less than 5% of those eligible to vote), it would be a lot easier to gain control of the leadership roles with a small number of voters (which is exactly what the current leadership have done)

Those who seek leadership most are seldom suited for it. Aye, ain't democracy grand.

[Ocean1]

Those who seek leadership most are seldom suited for it. Aye, ain't democracy grand.

It's an expanded subset of the behaviours known as the Dunning Kruger effect.

Interestingly, it's somewhat more pronounced in western societies.

But then, so is democracy.

[James Deuce]

More pigs 'n troughs revealed in today's paper...

Sir Peter Jackson's plans to build a world-class film museum in Shelly Bay were scuppered when Sir Ngatata Love's partner sought $750,000 in consultancy fees to help secure the land.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/film/7636786/Why-LOTR-museum-was-ditched

:sigh:

That's not Maori mining for money, that's just typical land-developing lawyer bullshit. I thought her consultancy fee was on the light side of what I've seen some lawyers go for.

[mashman]

It's an expanded subset of the behaviours known as the Dunning Kruger effect.

Interestingly, it's somewhat more pronounced in western societies.

But then, so is democracy.

He's a nice guy, has passed exams, knows the buzzwords and his dad is a very smart guy therefore his credentials cannot be denied and he is eminently qualified for the job? Sounds like the house of lords.

[Ocean1]

He's a nice guy, has passed exams, knows the buzzwords and his dad is a very smart guy therefore his credentials cannot be denied and he is eminently qualified for the job? Sounds like the house of lords.

What? Who are you on about?

[James Deuce]

What? Who are you on about?
Kirsten Dunst and Freddy Kruger, that's who you were talking about? Isn't it?

[mashman]

What? Who are you on about?

Sorry... was trying to throw out a potential real world example of the Dunning Kruger effect hence the ? at the end of the sentence... where those doing the hiring are confident in their ability to pick candidates based on the supposed credentials of the candidate. Marks out of 10 :confused:

[Ocean1]

Kirsten Dunst and Freddy Kruger, that's who you were talking about? Isn't it?

Aye. Both confidence inspiring individuals no doubt. Do I need my crucifix or my chainsaw?

[Ocean1]

Sorry... was trying to throw out a potential real world example of the Dunning Kruger effect hence the ? at the end of the sentence... where those doing the hiring are confident in their ability to pick candidates based on the supposed credentials of the candidate. Marks out of 10 :confused:

Ah, OK.

And yes I believe there’s likely some D/K effect in most such interviews.


There is, however a corollary. While a person’s competence is often mistakenly rated highly based on his apparent confidence it’s also true that highly experienced and skilful individuals also come across as highly competent. Because they are.

So ask yourself this: are you qualified to judge?

[mashman]

Ah, OK.

And yes I believe there’s likely some D/K effect in most such interviews.

There is, however a corollary. While a person’s competence is often mistakenly rated highly based on his apparent confidence it’s also true that highly experienced and skilful individuals also come across as highly competent. Because they are.

So ask yourself this: are you qualified to judge?

I guess that last question is the crux eh. We never know until we find out... shame there's no gauge for measuring leadership ability. Money doesn't seem to work :laugh:.

[Ocean1]

shame there's no gauge for measuring leadership ability.

But there is: The results of a second election to the same job.

[mashman]

But there is: The results of a second election to the same job.

:killingme... do you do weddings too

[Swoop]

If the Maoris get to claim the wind in NZ, are we able to choose their wind, or the stuff that blows across the country, from around the planet?
Quite true. Aren't monopoly suppliers (antitrust) illegal?

I'm glad Hone Harawera's name has entered this discussion. He is a loud mouthed, disagreeable part maori. His mother has purple hair.
You do realise her history, don't you? Search for "maori support unit" and "abuses"...
She is scum of the highest order and it has remained in her family.

Hone is great. My number one pollie - and I'm a Greens voter.
That figures.

[short-circuit]

That figures.

He's the sonny bill williams of politics: The fuckin man!

[Swoop]

He's the sonny bill williams of politics...

At least he stays on the same (retarded) pathway, unlike sonny-switch-codes-at-the-drop-of-a-hat-williams.
Or are you meaning "he goes where the money is"?

[short-circuit]

At least he stays on the same (retarded) pathway, unlike sonny-switch-codes-at-the-drop-of-a-hat-williams.
Or are you meaning "he goes where the money is"?

Nah just that they're both the best at what they do.

And if they're getting under the skin of the "average" kiwi (and I mean that in both senses of the word), then that just confirms it for me

[kevie]

An interesting take on things there JD, quite possibly true! I'm all for making good on things we did not do properly the first time.
I've about had enough of this govt's total denial of NZ'ers voices being heard when it comes to what we want as a country, (smacking bill, for instance) a referendum and like their red brothers before them, they ignored it!) But the thought that our brown brothers are in fact fighting for us all when it comes to asset sales is one that I'd never have considered until you pointed it out.
I have one problem with this though.
If we assumed that this is in fact their objective and if they succeed, how much is it going to cost every OTHER ( you know,non brown invader) NZ'er to live here, what with having to support all of them in they way to which they are quickly becoming used to.

Something I have always asked and never had a logical answer to ...... is ..... if the Maori sailed into NZ and TOOK the land by domination (force) and then sold it to the whiteys ...... is it true that the land was stolen by the Maori and then the whiteys received stolen goods??????

The more I look at things the less im convinced the Maori have any rights to any claims and compensations but in fact ..... wouldnt it be more true that the former peoples of this nation have the rights to claim compensation for the injustices the 'invading' peoples imposed??

waits for the backlash on that opinion...... in commenting ... appreciate I was raised in a Pah and am married (37 years) to a Maori lass. I am NOT anto Maori .. I am anti racism and division in this country.

[scumdog]

Nah just that they're both the best at what they do.

And if they're getting under the skin of the "average" kiwi (and I mean that in both senses of the word), then that just confirms it for me


Who are these people you speak of?

And their 'best', what is that?

[scumdog]

waits for the backlash on that opinion...... in commenting ... appreciate I was raised in a Pah and am married (37 years) to a Maori lass. I am NOT anto Maori .. I am anti racism and division in this country.

Ah, this great country of positive discrimination...:shifty:

[BoristheBiter]

*she.
you f*ing moron

At least I know how to quote properly you dumb arsed nob jockey.

[mashman]

At least I know how to quote properly you dumb arsed *nob jockey.

fixed that for ya

[BoristheBiter]

fixed that for ya

Gremlin beat you to it:laugh:

[Nova.]

ETA to PD?

[James Deuce]

ETA to PD?
You leave Basque terrorists out of this.

[Akzle]

ETA to PD?

well. now that boz is here...