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jasonmx
5th September 2012, 22:01
Hey Guys,

Just wondering if this Reaper Gen X 150cc be legal for bucket racing in NZ? Done my research and I cant see any reason why not, please note its a 150cc engine not a 155cc like some of other Pit Bike Motards out there.

The picture is just of a sample, the models that will be sold, will have axle and footpeg guards, along with all the graphics etc.

Cool thing about this bike is that it has dual piston front brakes and linkage rear suspension.

Any other suggestions or opinions of this bike are welcome.

269509

Bert
5th September 2012, 22:03
Have a little read through this thread....
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/145267-Mini-motard-for-bucket-racing

can of worms.:corn::corn::crazy:

NSR143
5th September 2012, 22:15
Here we go again.....

Personally I would have no problem with one of these at one of the meetings I run.

Technically they might be on the fringes of the rules but unless you are at the pointy end of the competition no one is likely to lodge a protest.

jasonmx
5th September 2012, 22:15
Yeah that model is a 155? This is 150?

bucketracer
5th September 2012, 22:25
Hey Guys,

Just wondering if this Reaper Gen X 150cc be legal for bucket racing in NZ?
269509

Are you actually thinking of racing or just blowing air for attention?

Henk
5th September 2012, 22:26
Reasonably involved in Auckland these days.
Strictly speaking it's not legal but unless you start blitzing the field, as NSR said nobody is likely to protest.
We have started to insist that anybody on a mini motard keeps their feet on the pegs pending a black flag.
It looks to me like you are planning to import these in some volume rather than just buying one for yourself, if you do go down that road and somebody gets pissed at some stage because they have been told to go away and you have advertised them as bucket legal you won't have a leg to stand on under the consumer guarantee act.
To be honest I'd rather not see these at the track because of the different riding style required, they seem to punch out of corners really well but have quite low corner speeds, it's just a matter of time before one gets punched from behind due to low corner speed. That's just my opinion of course.

jasonmx
5th September 2012, 22:27
Also what about this Mini GP 150cc
269513269514269515bike?

LENGTH × WIDTH × HEIGHT:1590 × 595 × 911mm
WHEELBASE: 1150mm
GROUND CLEARANCE: 123mm
SEAT HEIGHT: 681mm
CASTERANGLE: 23° 36'
DRY WEIGHT: 83.6kg
ENGINE
Displacement:150cc
Engine type: single cylinder, 4 stroke N-1-2-3-4, all up
Box X stroke:60x53mm
Gear:4 speed
Max power:15HP
Start method: Kick start
Start lever: Steel
Ignition: CDI
Cooling type: Oil cooling
Clutch: Manual clutch
Carburetor: MIKUNI
Ignition: Outer type
CHASSIS
Frame assy: steel
Swing arm: aluminum
Front fork:USD type, rebound and compression adjustment length:600mm, stroke:70mm; spring: 18PD, diameter: 45/48mm
Rear shock:rebound and compression adjustment, length: 218mm,stroke:37mm, spring: 1000PD
Clamp: Material: aluminum, color: Ti, silver, black, machining method: CNC
Rim: material: aluminum, front/rear: 2.50-12, 3.00-12
Tire: front/rear: 120/90-12 120/80-12
Sprocket: Front/rear: 16/37T, 7075 aluminum
Chain: 420#, KMC
Brake paddle: CNC, alloy
Brake front/rear:
Disc front/rear: 220/190mm, 4/1 pistons
Exhaust pipe: Material: stainless steel
Muffler:
Material: aluminum, machining method: CNC
Seat assy: foam
Plastics assy: NSF100, fiber glass
Fuel tank: steel
Foot rest: aluminum, CNC machined

jasonmx
5th September 2012, 22:37
Yeah I understand the Pit Motards are a bit different to standard buckets and they would be better off in there own class but they are a pretty new thing. So guess until the scene gets bigger that the buckets are the best class for them? They are cheap and if they are getting more people involved in the sport dont see what the problem is?

At least you can chuck dirt wheels on them an go offroad riding as well: )

Henk
5th September 2012, 22:41
Having ridden dirt bikes I'm not sure that I'd want to ride something with wheels that small.
They may be the up and coming thing but the fact remains that they aren't legal.
Add the fact that for the price of one of these things would buy or build a legal bucket I really can't see the point.

Henk
5th September 2012, 22:42
Oh as for that Mini thing, probably a better fit with pit bikes but they have pretty much been and gone, only running in the BOP as far as I'm aware now.

jasonmx
5th September 2012, 22:47
Having ridden dirt bikes I'm not sure that I'd want to ride something with wheels that small.
They may be the up and coming thing but the fact remains that they aren't legal.
Add the fact that for the price of one of these things would buy or build a legal bucket I really can't see the point.

The picture above is a top spec, a basic model ready to motard, wheels, guards etc could retail for $1,500 brand new, which im sure is pretty cheap?

jasonmx
5th September 2012, 22:50
Oh as for that Mini thing, probably a better fit with pit bikes but they have pretty much been and gone, only running in the BOP as far as I'm aware now.

Ok thanks for your help, its not a pocket rocket 50cc two stroke, its a bit bigger than them and has a 150cc 4stroke engine?

Buddha#81
5th September 2012, 23:48
I see you are based in Dunners, Buckets down here are all raced on big tracks (Ruapuna, Levels, Teratonga and Greymouth and Methven street circuits) so I thiink your 15 HP 4 speed bikes on 14" wheels would just be dangerous :( Its a dam shame Pac n save and the Warehouse's of the world are now open 24/7 there's some dame fine car parks that you could have some serious fun on those on a sunday arvo with 1/2 doz mates :)

Pumba
6th September 2012, 07:51
FFS. If you want to race road bikes of any sort buy a fucking road bike. Stop trying to fuck up a perfectly good class (most here would argue the best MNZ road class in NZ) with shitty little fad toys built in mainland china.

They take different lines, and are just plain dangerous on the track and the arrogance of there owners are really starting to cause problems. The other thread deals with a lot of other issues rather than just the whole extra 5cc so is relevant to your question.

IMOH John Conner should have never let them race at Mt Welly as it opened the fucking door. The words horse, gate, and bolted come to mind.

Pumba
6th September 2012, 10:54
Ok I have still been thinking about this since my post this morning, and will be a bit more constructive based on your commets


..........and they would be better off in there own class............

Yes they would. But no class exists. So if you have have the inention of importing these for financhial gain it is in your best intrests to develop a proper class for them. First off you would need to aproach the clubs to see if there is a desire to run such a class within there exisitng formats (a post on KB or any other forum does not consitute such an approch, even if club representatives are present on hte forums) as well as discussing the proposals with the MNZ Road Race Commisioner, to see waht is reuqired to have the calss supported at that level and registard in the National Rule Book, as F4 and F5 currently is.




......So guess until the scene gets bigger that the buckets are the best class for them?

Wrong


.....They are cheap and if they are getting more people involved in the sport dont see what the problem is?

I have nothing wrong with getting more people involed, but getting people involved on equipment that is not suited for purpose will only lead to accidents and the potential for people to get hurt. This is not the way to grow the sport. These bike are not the new FXR's.


.....At least you can chuck dirt wheels on them an go offroad riding as well: )

The way I saw the spoked wheels fail once on a simular bike at Mt Welly as a result os an off, the though of anyone trying to do anything off road is just going to fuck them really quick. So I am in full support of such endevours.

jasonmx
6th September 2012, 11:14
I see you are based in Dunners, Buckets down here are all raced on big tracks (Ruapuna, Levels, Teratonga and Greymouth and Methven street circuits) so I thiink your 15 HP 4 speed bikes on 14" wheels would just be dangerous :( Its a dam shame Pac n save and the Warehouse's of the world are now open 24/7 there's some dame fine car parks that you could have some serious fun on those on a sunday arvo with 1/2 doz mates :)

The bigger tracks would probably not be ideal for them, but yeah we can race them at the Silver Stream Karts track, its perfect for them : )

F5 Dave
6th September 2012, 11:17
Pumba, sometimes you can be a real meanie & a stinkypants.

I also tend to agree. Buckets are for buckets.

jasonmx
6th September 2012, 11:28
Ok I have still been thinking about this since my post this morning, and will be a bit more constructive based on your commets



Yes they would. But no class exists. So if you have have the inention of importing these for financhial gain it is in your best intrests to develop a proper class for them. First off you would need to aproach the clubs to see if there is a desire to run such a class within there exisitng formats (a post on KB or any other forum does not consitute such an approch, even if club representatives are present on hte forums) as well as discussing the proposals with the MNZ Road Race Commisioner, to see waht is reuqired to have the calss supported at that level and registard in the National Rule Book, as F4 and F5 currently is.





Wrong



I have nothing wrong with getting more people involed, but getting people involved on equipment that is not suited for purpose will only lead to accidents and the potential for people to get hurt. This is not the way to grow the sport. These bike are not the new FXR's.



The way I saw the spoked wheels fail once on a simular bike at Mt Welly as a result os an off, the though of anyone trying to do anything off road is just going to fuck them really quick. So I am in full support of such endevours.


I understand what you are saying, would be great if they had there own class but they are a new thing and until more people get involved, its not going to happen, especially people being negative about them, they are big overseas, just look at all the mini motard vids on Youtube, so no reason why it cant be big here.

As long as you buy a decent brand of Pit Motard bike, like Pitster Pro, or Reaper etc and the bikes are assembled and maintained correctly they are just as safe and strong as any other bike out there.

As for the last bit about offroad, not sure what you mean but they are designed to be offroad bikes.

bogan
6th September 2012, 11:50
I think somebody needs to put the guy straight with a succinct explanation on which rule the listed bikes break, or severely bend. Isn't the tech side of buckets all about innovation anyway, can you really fault a guy for wanting to try something a bit different?

Pumba
6th September 2012, 12:05
I understand what you are saying, would be great if they had there own class but they are a new thing and until more people get involved, its not going to happen, especially people being negative about them, they are big overseas, just look at all the mini motard vids on Youtube, so no reason why it cant be big here.

It is a classic chicken and the egg situation. You are saying that there is not engough out there to create a race class, but why would any one ant to buy them if no one is interested in spending the time and developing a set of rules for MNZ (or may be just a local club) to adopot and inforce.

I will ask the question, have you aproached any govening bodies or clubs about there desire to run the class or develop and ratify a set of rule, and therefore interested in promoting and supporting a fledging class untill it reaches the point of critical mass to be self surporting?

Or, are you purely interested in making money out of importing and selling them to unsuspecting punters as F4 race bikes and then walking away with the profits?

I have watched some vidoes in the past of pit bike racing, it is not for me, but still looks like good close and fun racing; however it is only one form of racing that I am sure alot of people would enjoy, but unless it is activly promoted and suported nothing will ever happen.

What I do not want to see happen in the mean time is the distruction of a formula class that has a proud long history damaged because you cant be arsed to do the hard work and/or you are just interested in making a quick profit.


As long as you buy a decent brand of Pit Motard bike, like Pitster Pro, or Reaper etc and the bikes are assembled and maintained correctly they are just as safe and strong as any other bike out there.

In regards to safety I am not refering to the quality of the bikes, although I do serioulsy question some of these tyoes of bikes on the market. I apologise if I implied this by my comments.

Based on my observations the style of riding required to ride them fast, due to the the smaller wheels, suspension set up and general bike geometry, means that the line taken are different to the other bikes on the circuit and poses and significant saftey concerns and detracts from the enjoyment of all those involved.


As for the last bit about offroad, not sure what you mean but they are designed to be offroad bikes.

Probally in hindsight not a comment that was required (failed attempt to inject humor) and detracted from the rest of my opinions.

F5 Dave
6th September 2012, 12:09
No, no, it was hell funny & that was what the bling was for.

Pumba
6th September 2012, 12:12
No, no, it was hell funny & that was what the bling was for.

I didnt see the bling for it:facepalm:

As a result of Daves endorsement I retract my retraction:rockon:

Yow Ling
6th September 2012, 12:14
Maybe we need to get a rulechange to clarify position on these bikes.
The Pre 72 have a rule minimum wheel size is 18", if we had a rule that Minature road racebike had a minimum rim size of 16" that would allow virtually any roadbike from the last 1000 years and send a clear message that the existing Buckateers dislike these forigen invaders !!

bogan
6th September 2012, 12:30
I have watched some vidoes in the past of pit bike racing, it is not for me, but still looks like good close and fun racing; however it is only one form of racing that I am sure alot of people would enjoy, but unless it is activly promoted and suported nothing will ever happen.

Full contact mini/pit-bike racing, nitro circus makes it look pretty fun :D 150cc might be a bit much for that sort of carry-on though :pinch:

F5 Dave
6th September 2012, 12:33
Maybe we need to get a rulechange to clarify position on these bikes.
The Pre 72 have a rule minimum wheel size is 18", if we had a rule that Minature road racebike had a minimum rim size of 16" that would allow virtually any roadbike from the last 1000 years and send a clear message that the existing Buckateers dislike these forigen invaders !!

Why don't you get your mate Billy onto it?:pinch:

Actually its a reasonable suggestion.

avgas
6th September 2012, 12:55
I also tend to agree. Buckets are for substandard-125-gp-bikes.
Fixed it for you. :whistle:

Nah I am just stirring.
But on that note - anyone race one of those GX125's in buckets. I would have thought they were a prime candidate these days rather than a motard. You can get them dirt cheap off trademe.

jasonu
6th September 2012, 13:04
Here we go again.....



Technically they might be on the fringes of the rules but unless you are at the pointy end of the competition no one is likely to lodge a protest.

Except maybe front runners who may get tangled while lapping one or anyone else whose race and series points are affected by (possible) non bucket legal machinery.
People are much better off buying a propper ready built BUCKET LEGAL bike. In the long run it will be cheaper, more competitive and more fun.

jasonu
6th September 2012, 13:07
ffs. If you want to race road bikes of any sort buy a fucking road bike. Stop trying to fuck up a perfectly good class (most here would argue the best mnz road class in nz) with shitty little fad toys built in mainland china.

They take different lines, and are just plain dangerous on the track and the arrogance of there owners are really starting to cause problems. The other thread deals with a lot of other issues rather than just the whole extra 5cc so is relevant to your question.

Imoh john conner should have never let them race at mt welly as it opened the fucking door. The words horse, gate, and bolted come to mind.

Fucking amen to that sista!!!!! Couldn't have said it better myself.

jasonu
6th September 2012, 13:14
I think somebody needs to put the guy straight with a succinct explanation on which rule the listed bikes break, or severely bend. Isn't the tech side of buckets all about innovation anyway, can you really fault a guy for wanting to try something a bit different?

There is nothing innovative about buying one of these, plasticing it up and riding it on a kart track. This guy is not wanting to 'try something a bit different', he is trying to make a bit of cash importing and selling these bikes. (just like the forza person)

bogan
6th September 2012, 13:32
There is nothing innovative about buying one of these, plasticing it up and riding it on a kart track. This guy is not wanting to 'try something a bit different', he is trying to make a bit of cash importing and selling these bikes. (just like the forza person)

But it could be argued he is offering an innovative solution to innovative buyers. Of course most of use would argue that its a substandard POS with completely the wrong chassis style to go up against normal buckets. Which is a point he needs to consider in marketing these if they do get through on a rule technicality; fuck all people will buy them if they get dicked on by bikes half the price.

jasonu
6th September 2012, 13:48
But it could be argued he is offering an innovative solution to innovative buyers. Of course most of use would argue that its a substandard POS with completely the wrong chassis style to go up against normal buckets. Which is a point he needs to consider in marketing these if they do get through on a rule technicality; fuck all people will buy them if they get dicked on by bikes half the price.

Sorry mate, still don't agree with the first sentence. Absolutely nothing innovative unless someone got them to run on water or farts or beer...
Totally 100% agree with the rest of your post though.

jasonmx
6th September 2012, 14:41
I think somebody needs to put the guy straight with a succinct explanation on which rule the listed bikes break, or severely bend. Isn't the tech side of buckets all about innovation anyway, can you really fault a guy for wanting to try something a bit different?

Thanks for the help guys and yeah this is what im asking??, so its more the fact that they are not technically a bucket racer even though they pretty much fit the rules of the class??? and the riding style is different???.

I have personally raced Pit Motards at the Karts Track here in Dunedin in the bucket class, cool track and good fun but not to many entries, so just want to get more people interested down here.

End of day its all about having fun, smaller bikes are never going to be taken to serious...

Anyway thanks for your help but after reading all this don't think we will be pushing Pit Motard racing to much apart from in home town as seems to be to much negativity towards them in NZ.

Henk
6th September 2012, 14:53
Thanks for the help guys and yeah this is what im asking??, so its more the fact that they are not technically a bucket racer even though they pretty much fit the rules of the class??? and the riding style is different???.

The point is they don't fit the rules at all. To fit the rules a bike has to be based on a non competion motorcycle, these have been designed and built as a mini motard race bike, therefore they are well outside the rules, not even in a grey area.

jasonmx
6th September 2012, 15:00
The point is they don't fit the rules at all. To fit the rules a bike has to be based on a non competion motorcycle, these have been designed and built as a mini motard race bike, therefore they are well outside the rules, not even in a grey area.

They are a Pit Bike which means they are designed for riders to ride around the Pits with, then all that has happened is they have had slick tyres put on...

Bert
6th September 2012, 15:12
I understand what you are saying, would be great if they had there own class but they are a new thing and until more people get involved, its not going to happen, especially people being negative about them.........

Here's a solution.

start a pitbike club; write some rules (covering everything including safety) and get them approved by MNZ.
Then get all the riders involved licensed.
the enter discussions with kart/race tracks etc for access.. sort out volunteers/race organisers etc. and then start racing.

Maybe at that stage; then the bucket boys might co-share events (not the same races)??

notwithstanding the fact that there has been long standing issues with bikes on kart track around the country; due to the perception that bikes do a lot more damage (don't forget to cover this off in ya rules as well)....

The general consensus on in this forum (generally visited by people that have been involved in F4/F5 for a significant length of time) is that these don't meet the spirit of the class. of note seen any supermotards in superlight (F3) lately; why is that??




End of day its all about having fun, smaller bikes are never going to be taken to serious...


You don't really know the history of buckets then....

comments like that will never endear you to this crowd.



Maybe we need to get a rulechange to clarify position on these bikes.
The Pre 72 have a rule minimum wheel size is 18", if we had a rule that Minature road racebike had a minimum rim size of 16" that would allow virtually any roadbike from the last 1000 years and send a clear message that the existing Buckateers dislike these forigen invaders !!

Bingo. so who's going to write the submission??

DEATH_INC.
6th September 2012, 15:15
Don't bother, road racers have their heads too far up their own asses to think that anything like this can be raced. Look how many whinge about motards on trackdays etc.
I laugh at the 'don't take you foot off the pegs' rule too, wtf does that accomplish? Never seen a leg get in the way of a bike before...
We wouldn't want to encourage anyone to go racing now, would we...

DEATH_INC.
6th September 2012, 15:17
these don't meet the spirit of the class.
Like an RS chassied special does?

crazy man
6th September 2012, 15:22
Like an RS chassied special does?agree thats why we make are own frames

Bert
6th September 2012, 15:24
Don't bother, road racers have their heads too far up their own asses to think that anything like this can be raced. Look how many whinge about motards on trackdays etc.
I laugh at the 'don't take you foot off the pegs' rule too, wtf does that accomplish? Never seen a leg get in the way of a bike before...
We wouldn't want to encourage anyone to go racing now, would we...

You know that wasn't the issue; the original issue was lines and lack of control mid corner. a few ruined it for the rest mind due.

I doubt people have an issue around someone actually building up a class and sorting out there own meeting.... why just because it has the same engine size, do people automatically assume that its all good as a bucket. isn't the the purpose of this thread; someone ask if it was suitable the answer so far has been generally no (as every other time someone has brought it up on this forum).




Like an RS chassied special does?

nice rebuttal....

F5 Dave
6th September 2012, 16:02
What we do get sick of is people who don't race in the class telling us how it should be. That gets boring real quick & you wonder why such people troll around,

perhaps they should find some rugby forum to go tell other people who don't play how it should be done.

TZ350
6th September 2012, 16:25
... smaller bikes are never going to be taken to serious...

By MNZ maybe ..... by the people who race Buckets ... no way, you only need to look at the ESE thread and some of the others like Crazymans chassis thread, F5Daves and Speedpros #6 to get an idea of the effort and expertise that goes into developing these small racers.

avgas
6th September 2012, 16:38
Don't bother, road racers have their heads too far up their own asses to think that anything like this can be raced. Look how many whinge about motards on trackdays etc.
I laugh at the 'don't take you foot off the pegs' rule too, wtf does that accomplish? Never seen a leg get in the way of a bike before...
We wouldn't want to encourage anyone to go racing now, would we...
I still reckon there should be an "unlimited" class. Turbo's etc. Then you would see some real creativity.
I mean lets face it - this is the only reason why people watch Pikes Peak and Gold Rush.
Hell half the time people are so amazed by the vehicles they forget to find out who won.

To put this back on topic. How about a 100cc unlimited class. Do whatever you want but keep the bike under 100cc.
Now that would be interesting to watch. I imagine walking through the pits would get more attention than a superbike meet.

bogan
6th September 2012, 16:43
I still reckon there should be an "unlimited" class. Turbo's etc. Then you would see some real creativity.
I mean lets face it - this is the only reason why people watch Pikes Peak and Gold Rush.
Hell half the time people are so amazed by the vehicles they forget to find out who won.

To put this back on topic. How about a 100cc unlimited class. Do whatever you want but keep the bike under 100cc.
Now that would be interesting to watch. I imagine walking through the pits would get more attention than a superbike meet.

Nah, if you want real tech innovation, specify a starting energy amount. Then you can have 2Ts, 4Ts, deisles, electrics, turbines, get all the crazy coming out of the woodwork there. And it encourages fuel efficient engines, so you'd have direct benefit to road vehicles too!

Henk
6th September 2012, 17:21
I laugh at the 'don't take you foot off the pegs' rule too, wtf does that accomplish? Never seen a leg get in the way of a bike before...
We wouldn't want to encourage anyone to go racing now, would we...

As for the leg thing, we didn't come up with the idea just to be pricks, we have had a number of damn close calls at mt Wellington in the last couple of months, and with the whole duty of care framework we have to work with these days a call had to be made.

As for encouraging people to go racing of course we do, that would be why the club has a loan bike for people to try, why we give complete newbies as much help as we can and the track to themselves while they need it, have set up multiple grades, blah blah blah...

What we don't want to encourage is people turning up with bikes that aren't suitable and or legal when there are plenty of legal options for around the same price.

As for the spirit of the rules, nice idea but it's a bit hard to get on a protest form and taken seriously.

If people want to buy a bike new, off the shelf and go racing, there are no options in road racing that I can see so best to go and play in the dirt. Buckets are probably the most open of all the road race classes today without opening the doors to questionable bikes that aren't suited to racing with the large number of legal bikes already out there.


I probably should ignore these trolls, the only way to educate them going by past experience is with a bullet.

F5 Dave
6th September 2012, 17:43
And they are certainly self righteous trolls. For the record, Henk, myself & a heck of a lot of Bucket guys are dirtbike riders, so don't try that bullshit. Heck we just want to have fun racing in a class that has been fun & has large fields without screwing it up.

I'm not about to go telling the Posties what should & shouldn't be allowed. Its not my class. I wonder why people do?

I don't think the OP was out of order asking the question, but the trolls are tiresome at best.

Yow Ling
6th September 2012, 17:54
What we do get sick of is people who don't race in the class telling us how it should be. That gets boring real quick & you wonder why such people troll around,

perhaps they should find some rugby forum to go tell other people who don't play how it should be done.

Remember that clown trying to have electric buckets Geez

Pumba
6th September 2012, 18:00
........Anyway thanks for your help but after reading all this don't think we will be pushing Pit Motard racing to much apart from in home town as seems to be to much negativity towards them in NZ.

You have utterly and completely missed the point. No one on this thread has said anything bad about Pit Motard Racing. What no one in this thread has been in support of is these bikes racing as an F4 race bikes.


Here's a solution.......

He hasn't bothered answer the very direct questions I asked in my previous post, so I can only draw from that the he is only interested in the profit of selling these bikes rather than for the good of the sport.


Bingo. so who's going to write the submission??

I am quite happy to write it. But cant submit it as I am not currently a member of MNZ:innocent:

Yow Ling
6th September 2012, 18:02
. Then you can have deisles, electrics, turbines, get all the crazy coming out of the woodwork there. And it encourages fuel efficient engines, so you'd have direct benefit to road vehicles too!

Why bother, plenty of petrol left, this is racing not an economy run, Oh you the electric bucket guy

Yow Ling
6th September 2012, 18:06
I am quite happy to write it. But cant submit it as I am not currently a member of MNZ:innocent:

I will , me and Billy are tight

bogan
6th September 2012, 18:11
Remember that clown trying to have electric buckets Geez

Really, who was that, it sounds like a great idea :innocent:


Why bother, plenty of petrol left, this is racing not an economy run, Oh you the electric bucket guy

Would make the rules a lot simpler, fuck all this competition/production bike/parts legality debate, meter out your fuel, go for a hoon. It's purely coincidental that this would give the vastly more efficient electrics a much needed advantage...

Yow Ling
6th September 2012, 18:14
Really, who was that, it sounds like a great idea :innocent:



Would make the rules a lot simpler, fuck all this competition/production bike/parts legality debate, meter out your fuel, go for a hoon. It's purely coincidental that this would give the vastly more efficient electrics a much needed advantage...

Are you a bucket racer? or just a spectator?

bogan
6th September 2012, 18:17
Are you a bucket racer? or just a spectator?

Neither, been meaning to go down to have a look for ages though. Who knows, might even raise a spanner or two to the challenge one day too.

RDjase
6th September 2012, 18:31
Different riding gear needed for pit bikes too................................

http://pcdn.500px.net/9201755/4333da0d27bac1ead32077fc408ba6d37273dbc9/4.jpg


http://www.freakingnews.com/pictures/16500/Circus-Clown-Motorbike-16946.jpg

DEATH_INC.
6th September 2012, 18:32
What we do get sick of is people who don't race in the class telling us how it should be. That gets boring real quick & you wonder why such people troll around,

perhaps they should find some rugby forum to go tell other people who don't play how it should be done.

Maybe, but then maybe I'm one of 'those' guys that would have a go on one of these motard things ( Prolly not but....)
Don't automatically assume that we're just stirring, I jump into these threads because I have a genuine interest in all forms of bike racing and you never know I may just do it one day. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Billy
6th September 2012, 20:35
Hey Guys,

Just wondering if this Reaper Gen X 150cc be legal for bucket racing in NZ? Done my research and I cant see any reason why not, please note its a 150cc engine not a 155cc like some of other Pit Bike Motards out there.

The picture is just of a sample, the models that will be sold, will have axle and footpeg guards, along with all the graphics etc.

Cool thing about this bike is that it has dual piston front brakes and linkage rear suspension.

Any other suggestions or opinions of this bike are welcome.

269509

The short answer is no!!!

These are buit as a motorcross machine and as pathetically slow as they are,They are still outside the rules,If we let the chinese MX bikes in then we can't really stop the Japanese ones either.

That said there is a trial going on at present that I have asked some peeps in AK to do,Whereby there will be a class setup specifically for a lower hp version of these,To get 8-10 year olds on,So we can get them started roadracing earlier than 13,But IF it eventuates,They will be strictly limited to that class only,

Graeme Billington
Roadrace commissioner
Motorcycling NZ.

Yow Ling
6th September 2012, 20:40
The short answer is no!!!

These are buit as a motorcross machine and as pathetically slow as they are,They are still outside the rules,If we let the chinese MX bikes in then we can't really stop the Japanese ones either.

That said there is a trial going on at present that I have asked some peeps in AK to do,Whereby there will be a class setup specifically for a lower hp version of these,To get 8-10 year olds on,So we can get them started roadracing earlier than 13,But IF it eventuates,They will be strictly limited to that class only,

Graeme Billington
Roadrace commissioner
Motorcycling NZ.

Thanks Billy, that is the answer I had hoped for

Buckets4Me
6th September 2012, 21:04
The short answer is no!!!

These are buit as a motorcross machine and as pathetically slow as they are,They are still outside the rules,If we let the chinese MX bikes in then we can't really stop the Japanese ones either.

That said there is a trial going on at present that I have asked some peeps in AK to do,Whereby there will be a class setup specifically for a lower hp version of these,To get 8-10 year olds on,So we can get them started roadracing earlier than 13,But IF it eventuates,They will be strictly limited to that class only,

Graeme Billington
Roadrace commissioner
Motorcycling NZ.

best Idear yet. I'll take 3 (the oldest boy is already crashing my rg50)
But I dont want to be trying to weave in and out of these things (or getting passed by them which is more likely)

speedpro
6th September 2012, 21:50
How about a 100cc unlimited class.

We call it F4

speedpro
6th September 2012, 21:54
The idea of metering a set amount of fuel per race/event would be a laugh. My bike would be screwed instantly.

Buddha#81
6th September 2012, 22:04
That said there is a trial going on at present that I have asked some peeps in AK to do,Whereby there will be a class setup specifically for a lower hp version of these,To get 8-10 year olds on,So we can get them started roadracing earlier than 13,But IF it eventuates,They will be strictly limited to that class only,

Graeme Billington
Roadrace commissioner
Motorcycling NZ.

My gawd Billy, do you know how painful it was following my 10year old around Ruapuna and Levels and he was on an Aprilia RS50 in MCI's training class? Following a pitbike will be like shoving a hot needle in ya eye! A year on hes at a pace thats keeping me from nodding off.

But seriously its a fantasic idea though, it should be able to grab a few of the wee ones before they get a taist of MX. What are your thoughts on lowering the age for racing? 8-13 is a long time to ride around gaining skills they carn't test without applying for a dispensation from MNZ? Even the current 3 years is a wee bit long in my eyes.

Billy
6th September 2012, 22:37
My gawd Billy, do you know how painful it was following my 10year old around Ruapuna and Levels and he was on an Aprilia RS50 in MCI's training class? Following a pitbike will be like shoving a hot needle in ya eye! A year on hes at a pace thats keeping me from nodding off.

But seriously its a fantasic idea though, it should be able to grab a few of the wee ones before they get a taist of MX. What are your thoughts on lowering the age for racing? 8-13 is a long time to ride around gaining skills they carn't test without applying for a dispensation from MNZ? Even the current 3 years is a wee bit long in my eyes.

Haha,Yea I can imagine it following him around,

Still in the very early stages,But if it takes off as I predict,We'll then start too look at 10 -13yr olds and see what we can arrange

TZ350
6th September 2012, 22:42
I still reckon there should be an "unlimited" class. Turbo's etc. Then you would see some real creativity.

How unlimited and creative do you need it?

There is a guy on here who is nearly finished building a fuel injected supercharged 100, and he also made his own roots style supercharger for it too, now bike is at the point where it runs, its a very profesional job.


I decided a while back that I quite like the idea of forced induction .... Cheers, -Sketchy

266664266663266665266666266667266668

Buddha#81
6th September 2012, 22:58
Haha,Yea I can imagine it following him around,

Still in the very early stages,But if it takes off as I predict,We'll then start too look at 10 -13yr olds and see what we can arrange

Hey Billy, this has ended up a thread hijack, in a way (but this could be a way of these guys moving the mini motards) but if you want any help/input, I'm more than happy. I'll watch out for this as I have a 8 year old and two pitbikes in the shed, it sucks for him watching his big bro getting track time.

MCI (as you probally know) run a very sucessfull training class down here and they are treated like a class in their race programe, get called up like all the big boys, sit on the grid and get a 15 min session with flag marshalls in place just no racing and and flag fall......works very well. More clubs should embrace this model!

Billy
6th September 2012, 23:12
Thanks Billy, that is the answer I had hoped for

All good mate,

Check your email.

Billy
6th September 2012, 23:13
Hey Billy, this has ended up a thread hijack, in a way (but this could be a way of these guys moving the mini motards) but if you want any help/input, I'm more than happy. I'll watch out for this as I have a 8 year old and two pitbikes in the shed, it sucks for him watching his big bro getting track time.

MCI (as you probally know) run a very sucessfull training class down here and they are treated like a class in their race programe, get called up like all the big boys, sit on the grid and get a 15 min session with flag marshalls in place just no racing and and flag fall......works very well. More clubs should embrace this model!

Yip,

Have a chat too Yow Ling,Ive sent him an email with a bit of a plan in it for buckets

avgas
7th September 2012, 00:17
The idea of metering a set amount of fuel per race/event would be a laugh. My bike would be screwed instantly.
Actually that would be hilarious. An unlimited class - but you only get 1L of gas. Everyone's a winner.......except the guy riding a CX500 or RGV250

avgas
7th September 2012, 00:19
We call it F4
Ah ok. So who rides the 100cc Turbo in F4? Seen a dozen or so on trademe. Anyone running a twin or 4 in F4?

avgas
7th September 2012, 00:24
How unlimited and creative do you need it?

There is a guy on here who is nearly finished building a fuel injected supercharged 100, and he also made his own roots style supercharger for it too, now bike is at the point where it runs, its a very profesional job.
Yeah I am looking forward to see that move.
I recall a guy years ago getting something stupid like 120hp from a tiny turbo/supercharged motor a while ago. (perhaps a 250cc?).
I know that IHI do a turbo that fits 100cc applications.

crazy man
7th September 2012, 03:05
Yeah I am looking forward to see that move.
I recall a guy years ago getting something stupid like 120hp from a tiny turbo/supercharged motor a while ago. (perhaps a 250cc?).
I know that IHI do a turbo that fits 100cc applications.my mate built a rz350 with a turbo on it and got 144 rwhp out of it

Buckets4Me
7th September 2012, 06:23
The idea of metering a set amount of fuel per race/event would be a laugh. My bike would be screwed instantly.

I think it would make a cool race. 1 ltr and see how many laps you can do :eek5:. Bit like the slow races that JC use to do on fun days

Bert
7th September 2012, 07:36
....... Anyone running a twin or 4 in F4?

Crazyman's twin is nearly finish:
Homemade: Frame & Swingarm,
Watercooled barrels sleeved/ported; billet heads. Hydroformed exhausts

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/150352-Team-GPR?p=1130387615#post1130387615


How unlimited and creative do you need it?

Yip there is more engineering and construction going on in these classes (all within the rules) that likely all the other classes put together.

bogan
7th September 2012, 10:29
I think it would make a cool race. 1 ltr and see how many laps you can do :eek5:. Bit like the slow races that JC use to do on fun days

Gotta add a speed aspect to it though, maybe give points for placings everytime the rider crosses the finish line, that way slow, steady, and boring; gets fewer points, but more often.

F5 Dave
7th September 2012, 10:49
Still sounds fukin boring, ooh look we've got 1/4 a tank left:nya:

bogan
7th September 2012, 11:25
Still sounds fukin boring, ooh look we've got 1/4 a tank left:nya:

I just figure you guys race around on glorified mopeds anyway right, so getting back to their fuel economic ideals might be welcome :shifty:

Also, who has a bucket with a fuel gauge anyway? that's not a racing part.

Yow Ling
7th September 2012, 11:43
I just figure you guys race around on glorified mopeds anyway right, .

Monique thinks you are dumb !


Also, who has a bucket with a fuel gauge anyway? that's not a racing part.

Nor is a battery

F5 Dave
7th September 2012, 11:57
I just figure you guys race around on glorified mopeds anyway right, so getting back to their fuel economic ideals might be welcome :shifty:

Also, who has a bucket with a fuel gauge anyway? that's not a racing part.
So what are you doing here then? Go find this rugby forum & give them brain damage. Not that it would be noticable.

bogan
7th September 2012, 12:23
Monique thinks you are dumb !

Now she definitely isn't a racing part...


Nor is a battery

Touche :pinch:


So what are you doing here then? Go find this rugby forum & give them brain damage. Not that it would be noticable.

I'm here to fix my own brain damage, thesis proof reading is mind-numbing, buckets however, are much more interesting.

speedpro
7th September 2012, 13:03
If you got points for using the 1L of fuel fastest I should win handily. 1L disappears in a 15min practice session more or less - 430 main jet!

My turbo used about 1L/lap at Pukekohe.

jasonu
7th September 2012, 13:09
That said there is a trial going on at present that I have asked some peeps in AK to do,Whereby there will be a class setup specifically for a lower hp version of these,To get 8-10 year olds on,So we can get them started roadracing earlier than 13,But IF it eventuates,They will be strictly limited to that class only,

Graeme Billington
Roadrace commissioner
Motorcycling NZ.

Not at Bucket meetings I hope.
I would hate to see Buckets turn into some sort of playschool kids learning class. There are enough Bucket classes and entrants to easily fill in the day without having to spend/waste time watching little Johnny and Suzie putting around. I am all for teaching kids about bikes but not at Bucket meetings.

Also, many thanks for the reply. It is good to see the MNZ offering a possible ruleing (official or not).

avgas
7th September 2012, 14:18
My turbo used about 1L/lap at Pukekohe.
That's not bad. My streetstock only did just a little more than that. May be 2 laps a L.

Fozzzy
7th September 2012, 17:30
Not at Bucket meetings I hope.
I would hate to see Buckets turn into some sort of playschool kids learning class. There are enough Bucket classes and entrants too easily fill in the day without having to spend/waste time watching little Johnny and Suzie putting around. I am all for teaching kids about bikes but not at Bucket meetings.

Also, many thanks for the reply. It is good to see the MNZ offering a possible ruleing (official or not).

lol yeah it would be unfortunate to have some kids get on a track soon so they have some experience when they get on REAL bikes. bucket racing is putting around you muppet

Fozzzy
7th September 2012, 17:31
Not at Bucket meetings I hope.
I would hate to see Buckets turn into some sort of playschool kids learning class. There are enough Bucket classes and entrants too easily fill in the day without having to spend/waste time watching little Johnny and Suzie putting around. I am all for teaching kids about bikes but not at Bucket meetings.

Also, many thanks for the reply. It is good to see the MNZ offering a possible ruleing (official or not).


lol yeah it would be unfortunate to have some kids get on a track soon so they have some experience when they get on REAL bikes. bucket racing is putting around you muppet

jasonu
7th September 2012, 17:39
lol yeah it would be unfortunate to have some kids get on a track soon so they have some experience when they get on REAL bikes. bucket racing is putting around you muppet

What ever you say mate. You clearly know what you are talking about.

gav
8th September 2012, 19:25
Regarding the foot off style of riding ... isnt this what seems to be the trend in motogp now?

gatch
9th September 2012, 17:45
Regarding the foot off style of riding ... isnt this what seems to be the trend in motogp now?

They only have feet off at corner entry. Mid turn and exit it's feet up.

And it hasn't been shown to make them any faster anyhow..

Buckets4Me
9th September 2012, 18:34
Regarding the foot off style of riding ... isnt this what seems to be the trend in motogp now?

same rules if you can run it over it's 10+ points :yes: (double if the rider already has a broken foot) :Punk:

gatch
9th September 2012, 18:51
There are 450cc moto bikes being lowered, clad in plastic, new wheels etc then being raced as f450 bikes. I wonder if this would be doable for these little 150 motos. Maybe not financially viable, or even worth the effort. But still doable.

Like this..

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/photogallerys/large/Honda-F-450-JPG.jpg

Buckets4Me
9th September 2012, 19:16
http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/classic-vintage/auction-510168420.htm

why wate your time when you can buy this ?

269799

Yow Ling
9th September 2012, 20:07
There are 450cc moto bikes being lowered, clad in plastic, new wheels etc then being raced as f450 bikes. I wonder if this would be doable for these little 150 motos. Maybe not financially viable, or even worth the effort. But still doable.

Like this..

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/photogallerys/large/Honda-F-450-JPG.jpg

No its not, how hard is it to start with a bike thats eligible?

gatch
9th September 2012, 21:02
No its not, how hard is it to start with a bike thats eligible?

It is eligible, with mods. And with the amount of money and time that is going into some of these f4 buckets, it's not an overly ridiculous thought.

TZ350
9th September 2012, 21:29
... with the amount of money and time that is going into some of these f4 buckets ...

I hope the emphasis is on time, money? I think its more time than money and anyone can put the time in if they wan't too.

Buckets4Me
9th September 2012, 21:48
It is eligible, with mods. And with the amount of money and time that is going into some of these f4 buckets, it's not an overly ridiculous thought.

how is a motoX bike be eligible unless you change the engine ?

and can you build that for $2000 ? :facepalm:

gatch
9th September 2012, 22:16
how is a motoX bike be eligible unless you change the engine ?

and can you build that for $2000 ? :facepalm:

Oh come on man, they hardly look like moto crossers to me.

I thought you dudes were all about thinking outside the box.

gav
9th September 2012, 23:47
Outside the box doesnt mean outside the rules ... :facepalm:

jasonu
10th September 2012, 04:23
It is eligible, with mods. And with the amount of money and time that is going into some of these f4 buckets, it's not an overly ridiculous thought.


Oh come on man, they hardly look like moto crossers to me.

I thought you dudes were all about thinking outside the box.

God you're dumb.

SS90
10th September 2012, 06:20
There is clearly 2 camps on this, based on "is this legal, or not" (the answer of course is, no, not at all.)

I cant remember who mentioned the concept of, well, if it ain't winning, no one will really care, while true (to the people who beat it), for the legal buckets that get beaten, I strongly suspect that they will get slightly upset, and it will create a rift.

When 125Gp bikes ran with F3 (and also being eligible for F3 points at the same time), it was bloody awful, particularly turn one (depending on the track, Levels being the worst), simply by virtue of the fast lines on a 125 Gp bike being almost contradictory to that of an F3 bike..... I saw plenty of (low level) aggression and frustration in the pits (and on track) as a result.

I suspect the same would be true in this scenario.

Despite what some of us want to believe, these bikes simply will not cut it in a true "race pace" scenario, when raced with "like machines " it is possibly very close and fun to watch, and compete in, as when all is said and done, the small wheels are a hinderance.

There isn't really a n easy compromise for this in my opinion, and of course, the guy that originally posted was planning commercial gain.

Im unsure what the current state of affairs is regarding buckets and track time, but it seems the logical thing is for the poster/business man to create a class, and find someone that will allow it to be included in the program, just as when Minimotos came along, when it became clear to everyone that they where not bucket legal (I assure you that plenty of people assumed they would be) several people made the effort to gain access to things like indoor Kartsport tracks, parking lots and so on.

It worked, and in many cases, worked well.

Fozzzy
10th September 2012, 12:36
So are no pit bike or pit bike style engine legal?

kel
10th September 2012, 12:50
So are no pit bike or pit bike style engine legal?

yep thats right, plus no one under 5ft is allowed to race either. Now theres a perfectly good forum called minimoto/pocket bikes, how about you take your coversation over there. Honestly those guys would love to hear from you the rest of us are just tired of it:yawn: