FZR250 New bike and a few questions

[McFatty1000]

Hi all,
Just got myself a 1989 FZR250 (About 35 thou kms) off a friend of a friend, had been sitting for about a year and going quite cheap so I took it.

Its running again and warranted, rego'd. However, it seems to flood/bog down and die at the lights and stops (can keep it going just if I give it throttle but it wont rev up), about half the time? So if you see someone pushing a fzr through light sets in Chch, thats me...

Any ideas on what may be causing this, how to fix it?

Due it to sitting for a while, I'm planning on doing an oil filter/oil change, look at spark plugs and air filter, should I just take it in somewhere to get the valves and carbs done too? Fork seals gave out on the first ride, trying to find some replacement ones now.

Also, worth doing the coolant? And or anything I've missed?

Thanks, any thoughts appreciated, let me know if this is in the right place too or if it should be moved to another section..

[James Deuce]

In terms of the bogging, it will just be that the carbs have varnished, because he probably didn't drain them before parking it up. Get them cleaned and setup nicely. An ultrasonic clean would be best. Check the state of the carb rubbers and diaphragms (assuming they are CV carbs) and replace as necessary.

As for other things tolook at:
Brake fluid, replace wheel bearings and steering head bearings, lube swing arm bearings.

Go through the wiring loom with a fine tooth comb, replace corroded connectors and clean the ones you don't replace, thoroughly. Pull the switch blocks apart and clean them out thoroughly.

Lube throttle, choke, and clutch cables (you can buy a little tool to help).

Replace the tyres, irrespective of wear, if it's been sitting for a while, the tyres will be past their best.

Check chain and sprockets, replace as necessary.

Valve clearance check.

Pull the brake calipers apart and clean them properly and replace seals and pads.

Don't half-arse the job. Get all the issues sorted right now.

[McFatty1000]

Cool, good to know

Would a fuel system cleaner help in the interim before I take the carbs in somewhere? For the varnished carbs...

Or, where would I get an ultrasonic clean done?
Very much looking at doing things properly now yes.

Any ideas on where best to get some of the things like valves done? (Don't have space or tools to take the bike apart too much for too long)

[Akzle]

"full service" from competent bike personage.

[James Deuce]

Fuel system cleaners are snake oil, but it's your money :).

Best place for a full service is your local bike shop, and the Chirstchurchians would have the best idea, if we can get one of them to contribute.

[onearmedbandit]

Best place for a full service is your local bike shop, and the Chirstchurchians would have the best idea, if we can get one of them to contribute.

Duanes Bikes and Skis. Waterloo Rd., Hornby.

[McFatty1000]

Excelllent, just had a friend recommend them too.

Just how much should I expect to pay/ rang up one place about my old bike (cb250) having a service and was told circa $700? Thought I'd give that one a miss myself, or is that what is expected?

[caseye]

For all of the things that JD suggested and anything else they might consider necessary I don't think you'd get change out of that amount from any bike shop.
Money well spent if they do a good job.

[Paul in NZ]

If you are mechanically minded and have tools you can do it yourself... Otherwise be prepared to pay a LOT because there is 4 of everything and it takes time...

Also check the fuel filter and the taps. ie is it delivering fuel? They are probably;y some kind of horrid vacuum operated thing that was never designed to last this long.

In the interim. Drain the tank and remove the taps to check they aint clogged up with shit. Drain the float bowls (I think you can do that with the carbs in place) and refill the system with fresh fuel.

Check that the rect/reg and ignition module have better than great connection to the chassis and that the engine mounts are no all corroded or it will never run properly. Don't even think about riding it unless the battery and charging is in good nick, you will be chasing phantoms forever....

Oil and filters are a no brainer..

Look - its a 250/4. Each pot is staggering 62.5cc and has a fist full of valves like fat gnomes dinner plates. The poor old rings have been squished in there for decades, the combustion chambers are full of semi burnt crud from unleaded fuels and its been thrashed mercilessly from the day it held air in its tyres. It has to suck open a gigantic CV carb slide with all that going on. Its a big ask... Its going to need to be in tip top shape for all this to happen... However they are fun bikes and well worth it if you like it ...

[McFatty1000]

Yeah, getting a price put out to do the carbs and new needles (from reading around I think these are the most likely suspect and should prob be done anyhow) as this is the bit I'm not so confident on myself.

Anyone have any part numbers for the air filter, spark plugs, lead caps and fuel filter? Or know a place I can get them from?

Also, there is a strong petrol smell coming from the bike, mostly from the right hand side, I suspect a fuel line somewhere or leaking carb maybe? Sound like the right track? Gonna guess its not normal at least...

Thanks for the help so far though

[ducatilover]

If you have a strong smell of fuel, check if the carbs are dripping from the little nipples underneath, or around the edge of the float bowl (lower portion of the carb)
It's not uncommon for float needles to get shitty when left sitting (yours should have tiny gauze filters just before the needle seat and rubber tips on the valve/needle itself) and they're cheap/easy enough to replace.
Otherwise I'd suspect the float bowl gaskets.
Whilst you're there you can set the float levels too...and clean everything, twice. :Punk:

[McFatty1000]

Yeah, have ordered some new needles and seats, so will put those in when everything gets balanced etc. Ordered a new oil filter which will go in with new oil asap, fuel filter and spark plugs are next on the list to be ordered. Fork seals (part number anyone? Price?) will be a next weekend thing but it seems to be holding up ok so far, the right one is fine too.

I put some carby cleaner stuff in the fuel and the bike seems to be running much better now (flooding/bogging a lot less), although I'm guessing a bit of a run (Over the port hills) would have something to do with that too, however, the fuel smell is still there, if now reduced. Any other parts of the carb that could/should be replaced that may be causing this, ie, any other rubber parts that will have dried up?

[FJRider]

Before you try the expensive options ... try ...

Fresh fuel.
Fresh Plugs.
Fresh Air filter.

That is only after you flushed the carbs and Drained and cleaned out the tank.

But I'm guessing plugs and air filter ...

[ducatilover]

heck everything in the carbs very carefully (I use a magnifying glass) look for wear on the slides, sitcking slides, holes/splits in diaphragms, wear on the main jet needle/emulsion tube (can wear oval)
Wear on the pilot screws (when wound in too hard they'll change the taper on the end of them) and check the o-rings on them
The float valves probably have outer o-rings too
Check you're not leaking past the chokes (the plungers can be pricks of things)
Get some fuse wire and carefully clean out the air bleeds/air jets (on the airbox side of the carbs)
Then lots of cleaner and compressed air

As for fork seals, try pyramidparts.co.nz

[ducatilover]

Before you try the expensive options ... try ...

Fresh fuel.
Fresh Plugs.
Fresh Air filter.

That is only after you flushed the carbs and Drained and cleaned out the tank.

But I'm guessing plugs and air filter ...

And make sure the new plugs are the right temp (an 8 or 9 should be sweet) and gapped perfectly.
Little engines are fussy fuckers

[McFatty1000]

Ok,

Given whats been said, I'll try new plugs/filters/oil etc first and see how it goes for the while. I have the main needles and seats (Cheap through a friend) coming anyway and was going to replace the o-rings and diaphrams (unless they were actually ok) so they'll be going in at some point, just maybe at a more wallet friendly time.

Will running the bike possibly help with the fuel smell though or will that be full take carb apart and clean territory?

Also, pyramid parts was excellent, cheaper than ebay even. Just gotta wait for the parts now

[ducatilover]

Will running the bike possibly help with the fuel smell though or will that be full take carb apart and clean territory?

Also, pyramid parts was excellent, cheaper than ebay even. Just gotta wait for the parts now

Diaphragms are generally very pricey, usually looking at upwards of $70 each, depending if they're bonded to a metal or plastic slide
Finding why is smells of fuel would be my concern.
Start with the simple shit:
Plugs
Air intake rubbers etc
Choke off
Fresh gas blahde-blah
Fuel tap not leaking
Vacuum line to fuel tap have petrol in it? If so, rooted o-ring or diaphragm (it'd be running like shit though on #1 cyl if that's the case)
Carbs overflowing?

Some CV carbs would overflow up through the air jets/passages and in to the carb bore, or simply out of the air jets/passages and in to your airbox, so worth checking for moisture there

Worth checking that the bowl vent is not getting pressurised, this'll push fuel through the jets and cause it to run shit/cut out. Usually it'll be 4 pipes in to one that'll run over the top of the airbox (or in to the air intake if ram air)
So route that as the factory says.

Or light a smoke near it and wait for the flames to start, when they erupt out, you've found the problem

[James Deuce]

It's a Yamaha - it will be o-rings leaking.

[McFatty1000]

Yeah, hoping its just the o-rings...

Can more or less rule out the fuel tap (smell is on the wrong side), has new fuel, choke (Although need to see if thats working at all, not sure its doing an awful lot at the mo), and bike is running fine otherwise so I don't think its anything to do with fuel in the vacuum line, and a friend with his 91 fzr had a quick ride on mine and thought it was running ok too.

I'm going for an overflowing carb at this point over the bowl vent but I'll have a look at everything when I get a chance.

[FJRider]

Yeah, hoping its just the o-rings...

Can more or less rule out the fuel tap (smell is on the wrong side), has new fuel, choke (Although need to see if thats working at all, not sure its doing an awful lot at the mo), and bike is running fine otherwise so I don't think its anything to do with fuel in the vacuum line, and a friend with his 91 fzr had a quick ride on mine and thought it was running ok too.

I'm going for an overflowing carb at this point over the bowl vent but I'll have a look at everything when I get a chance.

Check underneath the fuel tank (take it off) for pin-hole leaks in the tank. The petrol seeps rather than leaks. It will be easily seen as a dark damp area on the surface. It often occurs on the seam welds or bottom corners.
Check also leaks in the fuel lines/connections and vacuum line is connected in the right place and fuel is not leaking (from the tap) via it.

[McFatty1000]

Ok, slight update - the fuel is leaking out the carbs themselves, now an actual drip after riding (Now that I've been out on it a little more and things are a bit more apparent) - coming from just above the drain valves (and yes, the screws are in tight so its not that simple a fix) so I'm thinking that the o-rings and maybe the gaskets have gone, not that unexpected due to the age/time spent sitting there. I took some photos but they look rubbish, I can post them if people want a better idea of what I'm talking about.

So the question is, how much should I expect those to cost? Yamaha said about $30 per gasket ~ $120 for all four. Is this reasonable or should I be asking elsewhere?

Also, been quoted about 4-5 hours for taking the carbs apart, replacing parts, clean, put back together, balance and valve clearances. Is this reasonable? All the other shops I've called have been more coy on how long it was likely to take. Note that I really don't have the expertise to do this part myself and I do want the bike to go afterwards..

Any thoughts appreciated.

[McFatty1000]

Also, the bike is running quite well now that I've put a carb/injector cleaner through it, its now only stalling slightly when the brakes are put in too hard and gravity is starving the engine of fuel (Angle of engine apparently and a characteristic of fizzers?) and just myself getting used to taking off smoothly with a small inline 4 cyl bike.

Done to date:
Front forks
Brakes bled right through, pads checked
Exup valve engaged and now working
Exhaust headers media blasted and painted (were horrible with age)
Throttle has been lubed and now snaps back when released.
Spark plugs have been ordered and being shipped
Oil and filter is on its way and waiting for fine day with a few hours spare
Fuel filter replacement being shipped
Chain has been cleaned and given a good amount of oil, tension adjusted

Thats about it for now...

[James Deuce]

Good work! Up your idle a bit to avoid the stall.

[ducatilover]

$120 is reasonable from a shop for float bowl gaskets.
It could have poo needle/seats, or it could just be dripping from the petrol sloshing around in the bowls
If you can't do the work yourself, or are unsure, pay them.
If you're keen to learn the basics, start with a twin or single cylinder :niceone:

[Fast Eddie]

don't up your idle lol.. thats just one of those bandaid fixes.

if it doesn't idle properly you need to give the carbs love. get any worn seals gaskets replaced and then have it set up properly, air/fuel jetting and mixture.

yip 5 hours would probably be right for all you have mentioned. removal of carbs, strip, clean, replace parts, reassemble, balance/sync/setup and checking valve clearances on engine. reassembly/run/test ride.

it is quad carb after all. few hours involved with them.

You could try it yourself but yea if you're not keen its money well spent.

[McFatty1000]

Yeah, it idles well once warm, starting it is a bit hard at the moment - I'm hoping new sparks will aid with this at least.
Trying to get new needles and seats, just chasing up a friend who was getting them in at cost for me. I'll get these put in at the same time as everything else.

Good to know about the price being decent, I'm inclined to go with them as they've been the best to talk to so far

I started out on a single cylinder and did some of the smaller work pieces on that, I just never needed to take the carbs apart as it was quite well maintained by the previous owner. Would love to help out with someone who is doing their own bike carbs at some point, even just to know whats involved in reality. The fact that its a quad carb kinda pushes me a bit more to get it done properly.

Thanks for the replies, been a huge help in getting things moving. Planning on going on a road trip around xmas and not leaking petrol is kinda beneficial for that

[James Deuce]

don't up your idle lol.. thats just one of those bandaid fixes.

if it doesn't idle properly you need to give the carbs love. get any worn seals gaskets replaced and then have it set up properly, air/fuel jetting and mixture.

yip 5 hours would probably be right for all you have mentioned. removal of carbs, strip, clean, replace parts, reassemble, balance/sync/setup and checking valve clearances on engine. reassembly/run/test ride.

it is quad carb after all. few hours involved with them.

You could try it yourself but yea if you're not keen its money well spent.

Yes, it is a band-aid - Mr mcfatty has indicated a bugetary constraint in previous posts, however if you can convince him spend the readies (I couldn't) then well done. I have seen people with little bike experience set their idle at ridiculously low levels before though so it is worth considering whether or not it is set correctly in the first place, yeah?

[ducatilover]

I might have three good needle/seats at home, but I can't check for another week or two at the moment, I'll let you know if I do.
Might have four good bowls with good gaskets too.

It may be worth pulling the bowls off, checking the gaskets, clean everything and re-assemble and be careful doing the screws up (everything I have has cap heafed screws in, because I'm pedantic) as they with shit out very easily and I wouldn't be overly keen on using an impact driver on them

[McFatty1000]

I might have three good needle/seats at home, but I can't check for another week or two at the moment, I'll let you know if I do.
Might have four good bowls with good gaskets too.

It may be worth pulling the bowls off, checking the gaskets, clean everything and re-assemble and be careful doing the screws up (everything I have has cap heafed screws in, because I'm pedantic) as they with shit out very easily and I wouldn't be overly keen on using an impact driver on them

That would be awesome if you did - very keen on anything that would help/that you can send this way.

As for James Deuce - I'll make sure the idle is set right too, could very well be that its too low, it strongly gives this impression on warm up at the very least

[McFatty1000]

Ok, have sourced some new needles and seats so thanks for the offer of those but I should be ok there.
took the front sprocket cover off today to check the teeth, all good there but must have cleaned out about a good 200g of old grease and road grime, gave it a bit of clean out, hoping that'll help with keeping the chain from picking up old dirt. Looks better at the very least..

[McFatty1000]

Ok, got the bike back from the shop today, $900ish later and the o-rings, seats, bowl gaskets, air filter, intake rubbers, fuel filter are all done, I supplied my own sparkplugs and needles to be put in too (Have to double check that they put the latter ones in? Its not on the job sheet), had a good clean, balance and tune, valve clearances should have been checked (again, need to double check) and had the cam chain adjusted. I'm pretty happy with it so far - it even starts now, before was a bit hit and miss...

Couple of questions: the camchain - would they have had to drain the oil for this? I'm planning on doing a change sometime this week anyhow but was suggested by a friend they would have had to do this for that? Also, forgive my noobness, does the cam chain adjustment have any bearing on the valve timing? (This is why I paid lots of money for someone else to do...)

Lastly, its still bogging down at takeoff, although I'm pretty sure this is rider error rather than the bike, however, once it does, it wont rev up until I wait for about a minute (Side of the road) trying to get it going - have to hold the throttle wide open just to get it to idle....
Any ideas on what would be going on, and the best way to not bog it down at takeoff?

[ducatilover]

Camchain has an automatic tensioner, they would have pulled it out and cleaned it while doing valve clearances, no need to drop the oil.

Bogging down, get it to do it right next to home and check the plugs.
Best way not to bog on a 250/4 is clutch slip really. And you'll look and sound like a dick

[FJRider]

Couple of questions: the camchain - would they have had to drain the oil for this? I'm planning on doing a change sometime this week anyhow but was suggested by a friend they would have had to do this for that? Also, forgive my noobness, does the cam chain adjustment have any bearing on the valve timing? (This is why I paid lots of money for someone else to do...)

With my limited experience of cam chain adjusters ... no they would not need to drain the oil.
Valve timing would only be an issue if the chain slipped over a tooth on the top cog. (unlikely)


Lastly, its still bogging down at takeoff, although I'm pretty sure this is rider error rather than the bike, however, once it does, it wont rev up until I wait for about a minute (Side of the road) trying to get it going - have to hold the throttle wide open just to get it to idle....
Any ideas on what would be going on, and the best way to not bog it down at takeoff?

If you are used to riding bigger bikes ... it's easy (and common) to not want to make it rev. (just sounds wrong) Ride it like you stole it ...

[McFatty1000]

Sweet, ok, so rev the guts out of it on takeoff - not used to bigger bikes, just twins and singles of the same size. And I haven't taken this one to a car park to practice everything all over again either.
Hoping that my fuel use will drop under 8 litres per hundy kms now too

[FJRider]

Hoping that my fuel use will drop under 8 litres per hundy kms now too

Doesn't work like that ... on bigger bikes you just go further ... use MORE petrol.

My FJ uses 7.1 liters per 100 km's (average) when I behave myself.

[McFatty1000]

I'm hoping my 250 will be a little better than that. If I behave.

[ducatilover]

Yours should manage just under 5l/100km.
It shouldn't bog down unless you're loading it up at very low rpm

[JustNick]

Ok, got the bike back from the shop today, $900ish later and the o-rings, seats, bowl gaskets, air filter, intake rubbers, fuel filter are all done, I supplied my own sparkplugs and needles to be put in too (Have to double check that they put the latter ones in? Its not on the job sheet), had a good clean, balance and tune, valve clearances should have been checked (again, need to double check) and had the cam chain adjusted. I'm pretty happy with it so far - it even starts now, before was a bit hit and miss...

Couple of questions: the camchain - would they have had to drain the oil for this? I'm planning on doing a change sometime this week anyhow but was suggested by a friend they would have had to do this for that? Also, forgive my noobness, does the cam chain adjustment have any bearing on the valve timing? (This is why I paid lots of money for someone else to do...)

Lastly, its still bogging down at takeoff, although I'm pretty sure this is rider error rather than the bike, however, once it does, it wont rev up until I wait for about a minute (Side of the road) trying to get it going - have to hold the throttle wide open just to get it to idle....
Any ideas on what would be going on, and the best way to not bog it down at takeoff?

Howzit going mate, have you checked out the exup valve to make sure it's working properly? I had similar issues with bogging down at take off with my old fizzer and found that the exup cables had been munted at some time and that the valve had been wired open. The bike did run ok in this condition but was REALLY gutless at take off.

[McFatty1000]

Hey, yeah, the exup is going - the cables are getting a bit tired though so I'll have to replace them at some point - it must be me loading it up to much at low revs, have only had the bike going for about ten days total in two months of ownership so really not used to riding it just yet, especially around town.
I'll give the exup another look at just in case though

Good to know that I should expect about 5l/100km - is this an average or a best scenario for moderate riding?

When it bogs down, what it actually happening internally? Flooding/starving/something else? I figure if I get some idea of this I can better combat it.And is bogging down bike specific in what happens internally?

[ducatilover]

Can be a lot of things when it bogs, lack of vacuum to pull enough petrol through, or flooding. All depends on the engine. As to why yours bogs, if it's EXUP and it's working, I'd say flooding.

I've average 5l/100 on 4 cyl 250s over long rides with some serious thrashing in the middle. You could get lower, but nobody buys one to treat it nicely ;)

[McFatty1000]

Ok, quick update: not bogging down much at all now I've put a few tanks through and gotten used to it a bit more myself so I'm putting that mostly down to rider error on takeoff when she does. However, the fuel economy is quite low, sitting at 6l/100km and doesn't seem to be getting any lower (Its like that no matter how I ride), doesn't seem to get any higher than that either though. Any thoughts on what might be causing this? Or how I can reduce the fuel use? My friends on a cbr600 and a gpz500 are getting about the same/slightly better fuel use as me and they don't ride around like nanas and my other friends fzr250 gets closer to 4.5l/100km...

[Akzle]

Ok, quick update: not bogging down much at all now I've put a few tanks through and gotten used to it a bit more myself so I'm putting that mostly down to rider error on takeoff when she does. However, the fuel economy is quite low, sitting at 6l/100km and doesn't seem to be getting any lower (Its like that no matter how I ride), doesn't seem to get any higher than that either though. Any thoughts on what might be causing this? Or how I can reduce the fuel use? My friends on a cbr600 and a gpz500 are getting about the same/slightly better fuel use as me and they don't ride around like nanas and my other friends fzr250 gets closer to 4.5l/100km...

1) use premium. all the time. i've been known to fill up 2/3rds with normal and the top of the tank with gull octane (if i wants to thrash it a bit n blow out the cobwebs, pure gull makes it idle 2k over and doesn't have the range)

2) in order to use less fuel: park the bike, go watch TV.

3) big bikes often have comparable "economy" with 250/4s, there is an optimum rev range for your engine, i'm guessing it rings out at 20 or so, so your optimum fuel usage range if probably around 12k (guess) less or more will affect your economy.

IF the carbs got balanced properly it will be running as schweet as you're going to get it. a) buy bigger bike b) sell your kidneys for fuel money

[ducatilover]

If it's all running fine, just live with the fuel usage. My 600 uses less than most 250s do :niceone:

[Akzle]

If it's all running fine, just live with the fuel usage. My 600 uses less than most 250s do :niceone:

that's because you don't ride! :bleh:

[ducatilover]

that's because you don't ride! :bleh:
:weep: Can't argue with that

[Akzle]

:weep: Can't argue with that

not feeling very sporting today, huh?
need a hug? :hug:

[McFatty1000]

1) use premium. all the time. i've been known to fill up 2/3rds with normal and the top of the tank with gull octane (if i wants to thrash it a bit n blow out the cobwebs, pure gull makes it idle 2k over and doesn't have the range)

2) in order to use less fuel: park the bike, go watch TV.

3) big bikes often have comparable "economy" with 250/4s, there is an optimum rev range for your engine, i'm guessing it rings out at 20 or so, so your optimum fuel usage range if probably around 12k (guess) less or more will affect your economy.

IF the carbs got balanced properly it will be running as schweet as you're going to get it. a) buy bigger bike b) sell your kidneys for fuel money

Yeah, I'm not overly worried, just thought if there was a trick to get it to be more economical then I'd try that. And would have a 600 expect for the not having a full license issue/ no r6 etc on the lams list. Prob so people like me get better skills on 250s like I have now.

Question though, how would reving lower affect economy? Given that the argument would be that reving higher (the optimum range) would be better on fuel?

[ducatilover]

not feeling very sporting today, huh?
need a hug? :hug:
Still recovering from working on an RX3 and having to be in Auckland :lol:

[Akzle]

...and having to be in Auckland

... need a stiff drink, then

[Dave-]

Don't use your brakes so much.

Everyone knows that braking is the highest contributor to a low economy.

[Akzle]

Don't use your brakes so much.

Everyone knows that braking is the highest contributor to a low economy.

someone tell Shon Key.

[R650R]

Awwww the memories of the Blind mans dream. Had one of these for my firts bike, indestructible. Mine was 88 Exup and did Fish & Chip delivery on it.
With regard to the Exup valve listen out for a rattle in the exhaust collector box. Over time the graphite washers wear and the exup valve jams, this cause the main fuse to blow from the excess current draw so carry some spare fuses with you for when it happens. Thrashed the living daylights out of mine and even used car oil in it *cringe* and it survived about 25000+km of abuse before my brothers mate bought it.

The original exhaust had a ring bulge in it due to the cheap stainless outer they used and eventually snapped in half of its own accord at a track day at manfield once. Had an engineer make up a new middle section and riveted the orginal endcaps back on. The big single disc front brake setup was awesome for a bike of that size too.

As the others said above, ride it like you stole it :) Might try scan some old pics later.

[FJRider]

Question though, how would reving lower affect economy? Given that the argument would be that reving higher (the optimum range) would be better on fuel?

Four cylinder 250's were not built for economy.

[McFatty1000]

Four cylinder 250's were not built for economy.

Yeah I know. And don't worry, its not why I bought it.

Anyhoo, rode over to Westport via Lewis yesterday and back today which was really good, paying for it slightly now but worth it.
Any other weekend trips from Chch (~300-500kms) people recommend? Note that my cornering while getting better isn't amazing so not looking for the road with the most hairpins, mental drain from those is noticeable.

And, should cooler weather make a difference in fuel use? Like, 1.5 litres per 100 difference or is there something else going on? Open road, same weekend yadda yadda

[FJRider]

Any other weekend trips from Chch (~300-500kms) people recommend? Note that my cornering while getting better isn't amazing so not looking for the road with the most hairpins, mental drain from those is noticeable.

Kaikoura, inland route to Waiau, Culverden, (side trip to Hanmer Springs ???) home.


And, should cooler weather make a difference in fuel use? Like, 1.5 litres per 100 difference or is there something else going on? Open road, same weekend yadda yadda

Time spent in top gear makes a difference. (the more time, less fuel used) Same roads but different gradients in the opposite direction. long uphills on the way over makes a long downhill on the way back.
Wind (head or tail) can make a big difference. (the usual nor-wester gives a tail wind from Lewis)
Traffic conditions ... more/less vehicles to pass (quick fast overtakes use fuel).

Your riding style and mood. (calm relaxed at the start/tired impatient at the end)

Warm fuel expands ... (don't leave your bike parked full of petrol on a hot day) thus may "give" you more fuel. (the extra measured in mils not litres)

[McFatty1000]

Sweet, all good things to think about next time then.

Thanks for that, realised just how much ones riding improves when you actually ride somewhere rather than commute

[FJRider]

Sweet, all good things to think about next time then.

Thanks for that, realised just how much ones riding improves when you actually ride somewhere rather than commute

The advice I give to those new to motorcycling is ...

The two things to think about while riding.
First ... where you plan to get your next gas/food from. (you need to refuel too)
Second ... The 100 metres of road in front of you, and everything you see in it. (and things that might be there but cant see)

Leave your watch in your pocket .. and enjoy the ride.

[McFatty1000]

New update! Because I know everyone has been itching for one.

Sourced a factory exhaust for the bike, painted it and put it on and took it to work, had no idea how much difference it would make. Better idle (more stable), more torque (I know this seems far fetched for a 250/4) and the engine seems way smoother in both starting and general running, not so rattly.

One down side is I've lost a little bit of the top end but I doubt I really need that unless I'm going to the track.

Now to see if this has an effect on the fuel use.

[FJRider]

Sourced a factory exhaust for the bike, painted it and put it on and took it to work, had no idea how much difference it would make. Better idle (more stable), more torque (I know this seems far fetched for a 250/4) and the engine seems way smoother in both starting and general running, not so rattly.

One down side is I've lost a little bit of the top end but I doubt I really need that unless I'm going to the track.

Now to see if this has an effect on the fuel use.

It may be ... an aftermarket/ non standard exhaust that was fitted ... and no change to jet sizes was done. Standard air filter on it by any chance .. ???

And I'm guessing better on fuel on trips. Around town you may not see improvement.

[ducatilover]

I've only seen one occasion where a 250/4 has made more hp with an aftermarket 'zorst over a re-packed factory one on the dyno. (A very nicely set up MC22, pulled 43 at the rubber bit)
No surprises there mate. I bet it hasn't lost any top end ($5 if you do a dyno run)
Generally the top end with a wank muffler becomes smoother feeling, you can't feel it run out of puff. Whereas with the factory set up, it makes more power up to, say, the last 1000rpm, so you can feel the power drop off.

I found this with my VT250, which spent far too much time on a dyno. It took a proper set of tuned length headers to pull more hp, even though it felt faster than stock with a wank muffler

[FJRider]

I've only seen one occasion where a 250/4 has made more hp with an aftermarket 'zorst over a re-packed factory one on the dyno. (A very nicely set up MC22, pulled 43 at the rubber bit)
No surprises there mate. I bet it hasn't lost any top end ($5 if you do a dyno run)
Generally the top end with a wank muffler becomes smoother feeling, you can't feel it run out of puff. Whereas with the factory set up, it makes more power up to, say, the last 1000rpm, so you can feel the power drop off.

I found this with my VT250, which spent far too much time on a dyno. It took a proper set of tuned length headers to pull more hp, even though it felt faster than stock with a wank muffler

I hope the wank with the Magna 250 is reading this thread too ... If his mother lets him surf the net of course.

[ducatilover]

I hope the wank with the Magna 250 is reading this thread too ... If his mother lets him surf the net of course.

Wasn't it a Rebel? I gave so many fucks, I forgot! :laugh:

[FJRider]

Wasn't it a Rebel? I gave so many fucks, I forgot! :laugh:

I gave at the office ... :pinch:

[McFatty1000]

Cool, Yeah, that describes how it feels well, I'll have to run it out a bit more to get a proper feel for it too anyhow

Why do people bother with aftermarket exhausts then? I mean, nearly every cbr/zxr/fzr I see has one on it (I just bought mine that way)

Worth dyno'ing it?

[FJRider]

Why do people bother with aftermarket exhausts then? I mean, nearly every cbr/zxr/fzr I see has one on it (I just bought mine that way)

Worth dyno'ing it?

They look/sound cool. FEEL faster ... so they must be faster ... eh !!! But unless you spend the dosh/time on re-jetting etc ... nothing else is gained.

A bigger bike is the EASIEST HP gain. Wait until you can. Save your dosh for that.

[ducatilover]

Cool, Yeah, that describes how it feels well, I'll have to run it out a bit more to get a proper feel for it too anyhow

Why do people bother with aftermarket exhausts then? I mean, nearly every cbr/zxr/fzr I see has one on it (I just bought mine that way)

Worth dyno'ing it? I wouldn't dyno it, unless you're keen to see the standard power (probably 34-36hp, depending on correction factors)


They look/sound cool. FEEL faster ... so they must be faster ... eh !!! But unless you spend the dosh/time on re-jetting etc ... nothing else is gained.

A bigger bike is the EASIEST HP gain. Wait until you can. Save your dosh for that.
^ wot 'e sed.

I've managed a few extra horse from my 600, but it's set up correctly, decent air filter, straight flowing can, ignition advancer and carbs are set up.
But, I did it for noise. The standard bike would make more power most of the way, 'till I did the ignition advancer (seemed to fatten the mid range up)
But, then you have to run it on 98 petrol, and even then I worry about it detonating :facepalm:

But, any HP gain from a 250/4 is not going to set your pants on fire, if you had it jetted, decent exhaust and filter and got an extra 2HP, I'd high five you

[McFatty1000]

Ok, thought I'd update

The stock exhaust has made a good difference around town (Seat of the pants) however, I've seen the fuel use spike (Up to 6.5l/100kms, on a 250 :weird:)

So, just to see if its me running the bike differently, I've popped the aftermarket exhaust back on, will try for a few more tanks to get a rough idea.
Also, I'm only running the bike when I feel like it, so the (slightly) nicer exhaust note makes it a bit more worthwhile.

Also, lastly, I got a ventura pack rack etc off a 3ln3 (91 model) bike and tried to put it on my 3ln1 (89 model), but it doesn't want to match up, anyone know of any differences in frame between the two? Externally, they look the same at least

[FJRider]

Also, lastly, I got a ventura pack rack etc off a 3ln3 (91 model) bike and tried to put it on my 3ln1 (89 model), but it doesn't want to match up, anyone know of any differences in frame between the two? Externally, they look the same at least

It's nothing to do with the BIKE frame ... more to do with a different company making the pack rack frame. (A different design)

[McFatty1000]

Yeah, its more if there were any slight revisions (If anyone knows) to the two bike models that would mean it would fit on one and not quite on the other.

The frame on mine seems to be more obstructive than the other. Does anyone else do pack racks? It just seems to be ventura from what I've seen.

[hayd3n]

Yeah, its more if there were any slight revisions (If anyone knows) to the two bike models that would mean it would fit on one and not quite on the other.

The frame on mine seems to be more obstructive than the other. Does anyone else do pack racks? It just seems to be ventura from what I've seen.

get it modified to suit :)

[McFatty1000]

get it modified to suit :)

Yeah, going to get the friend who I bought it off to see if it goes on the same way as his bike. In the short look I had, I couldn't see how to modify it without risking its carry capacity. But I'll have another go tues. Unless you've done it before? Which would be awesome...

[FJRider]

Yeah, going to get the friend who I bought it off to see if it goes on the same way as his bike. In the short look I had, I couldn't see how to modify it without risking its carry capacity. But I'll have another go tues. Unless you've done it before? Which would be awesome...

The upper and lower portions of your old pack frame will match each other ... so put the lower portion (off the old bike) on the new bike.

Or bend the piece with the female (joiner) portions out a bit so they match up.

[McFatty1000]

Ah sorry, just got what you meant - no, the problem is the rear frame of my bike is slightly lower than the other bike, which means I cant get the bolt locations to work (ie, the fairings/rear frame of my bike get in the way of the L brackets of the pack rack slightly) - I can fit the aft or fore bolts, but not both at the same time (by all of ~10mm)

The pack part itself is fine.

If I can't sort it tomorrow, I'll just sell them back to him for the same price, as he's selling his bike. He'll get a bit more for it maybe with it on if it goes that way

[hayd3n]

weld new brackets on the rack to suit the bike ive attached pack racks to various bikes this way , far cheaper this way too

[McFatty1000]

weld new brackets on the rack to suit the bike ive attached pack racks to various bikes this way , far cheaper this way too

May not be a bad way to go. Cheers

[McFatty1000]

Ok, managed to fit the pack rack (amazing what a crow bar will let you do) and thats going well.

Next problem is, a fuel leak!
Yes, another one, noticed the fuel consumption steadily going up the last few weeks but put it down to the change in travel conditions (Only ~5km one way, in slightly heavier traffic) but today I saw a few spots underneath the bike after I'd filled up and could see vaguely where it was running from.

So, given my two minute look at the station, I think its a hose or maybe a connection to the bottom of the tank/ and or petcock. Where can I get replacement hoses if it is just something like this? Repco? Or will it be a visit Yamaha to get specific model ones?

Tomorrows job if I get time.

[ducatilover]

If it's just teh hose any auto parts place will have lengths of it.

[The Reibz]

The FZR250 has a overflow hose that exits under the tank down by the shifter.
Are you sure you just didn't over fill the tank?

[McFatty1000]

The FZR250 has a overflow hose that exits under the tank down by the shifter.
Are you sure you just didn't over fill the tank?

This may have been it...

So thats good, If not slightly embarrassing.

While I had the tank off though, thought I'd do some learning so took the air filter apart and washed out in petrol (just a foam one), took the carbs off to find anything else and came across this:

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd392/Ismart120/2013-03-09_14-25-47_109.jpg

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd392/Ismart120/2013-03-09_14-25-52_78.jpg

These are the rubber manifolds underneath the carbs, thinking the cracking may have something to do with the bike not always running 100%

Know where I could get some more?

[McFatty1000]

Also, just to not sound too noobish, the overflow hose has been removed so the petrol just drips from underneath the tank, which is why I thought it was leak as such

[The Reibz]

Go get a bit of fuel hose for the overflow bro, you don't want that shit dripping on a warm engine. Alternatively you could stop filling your tank so high lol.

I can tell you a Yamaha dealer will charge you roughly $110 per rubber boot. I owned a 3ln for roughly 5 years and I can tell you that all dealers will go right out of there way to be as unhelpful as possible when it comes to FZR parts. I have a 1988 FZR1000 and have to order everything from overseas for it. Some parts don't even exist anymore.

Those boots are cracked up a bit, I have heard on the grapevine of a solution you can soak them in that seals them up. Have never seen it with my own eyes though.

Hope you get it sorted mate, best thing for it is a carb clean and a reshim of the valves. I still miss riding my old one...

[McFatty1000]

Yeah, its on the list, although, compared to the amount of petrol that was dripping on the engine when the carbs were leaking :eek5:

I had her in the shop about 5-6 months ago getting the carbs cleaned/all the rings etc done, had the airbox to carb boots replaced but they didn't say anything about the bottom ones (Feeling slightly annoyed with that). Those cost 120 all up, so I'm hoping these ones are similar. Emailed a few places so hope to hear on Monday

Do you think the carb balance will be knackered when I fit new ones? Haven't done that myself yet so hoping it'll be ok until I can get a hand from someone who knows what they're doing

[The Reibz]

To be honest with you bro, the only boot that looks like it could cause you issues is the one on cylinder 4. Thats just from looking at the photos. Any that have full penetrating cracks should be replaced or crudely repaired with some filler like I did with my ones lol.

Wouldn't hurt doing a ballance but I dont think changing the boots would make much of a difference unless its a major leak (and you would know if it was)

[McFatty1000]

Yeah, they all have straight through cracks bar one? And ok, the bike does sometimes just refuse to go above idle, so thinking this might be the start of something I need to get onto pronto.

Winter will be good to get things done at least ;)

[nzspokes]

After a ride, let it idle and squirt CRC around the boots. If the idle changes then you have a leak. Then get new boots. If you don't you can over lean the motor and seize it.

Look on e-bay for the boots.

[McFatty1000]

After a ride, let it idle and squirt CRC around the boots. If the idle changes then you have a leak. Then get new boots. If you don't you can over lean the motor and seize it.

Look on e-bay for the boots.

Seize it? Wouldn't it just die from not enough fuel or am I missing something else?

[nzspokes]

Seize it? Wouldn't it just die from not enough fuel or am I missing something else?

Yes, long run on lean will do damage.

[Fizzer250]

Seize it? Wouldn't it just die from not enough fuel or am I missing something else?

Hello MCFATTY1000.
I have also picked up a FZR 250 2kr (same engine as yours) which is suffering the exact same symptoms. It has been in a shed for a year or 2 exactly like yours. Whenever i ride more than 10 minutes or so and stop at a set of lights the bike decides to idle below the normal idle revs and stalls. The throttle becomes almost totally unresponsive and I have to wait 5-10 minutes before it is able to start again which it does back to running normal again...
I have only been for about 3 rides on it so far and i don't know what it wrong? I've found your forum and want to know did you identify the issue?
Please help me if you can??!! I see that there are a number of cases like this on the internet so we aren't alone but they don't name the problem.
Did just running it more remove the problem??
P.S. I am in Christchurch too.

[ducatilover]

Fuel tank vent. It's built in to the cap, you can take it off the bike, dismantle and clean it all

[Fizzer250]

Fuel tank vent. It's built in to the cap, you can take it off the bike, dismantle and clean it all

Thanks for that! i will start off with that and let you know .

[mossy1200]

Thanks for that! i will start off with that and let you know .

McFat hasn't been online since dec 13.

[Fizzer250]

Fuel tank vent. It's built in to the cap, you can take it off the bike, dismantle and clean it all


Have done your recommendation and cleared fuel vent and it's still doing it bugger it.
The temperature gauge works when i turn it on but doesn't seem to move after initial starting though. Could be a radiator issue i'm thinking or possibly flooding?

Its only when i stop and i take off after about 10 minutes of riding. Frustrating.
In open roads it doesn't occur and bike runs great.

[Steve Gauge]

sitting for that long remove and clean carbs at a guess this is your main problem and if you havnt already done it drain tank completely . These nearly always have rust in tanks so new fuel filter would be a good idea , as for temp gauge separate issue possibly sender or connection , couldn't hurt to flush radiator and check thermostat too .

[Fizzer250]

Will do. Cheers for your help. I'll post to let you know how it's going after this.