Key 'out of touch' over hungry kids

[mashman]

Shearer: "I hear people argue that this is the responsibility of parents. We can debate that endlessly but it won't change this reality: tomorrow morning kids will still turn up to school hungry,". Reality

Key: "not every school wants every child to be provided a lunch". Ignoring reality. (nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/14802477/key-out-of-touch-over-hungry-kids-turei/#)

Why should society "catch" kids that aren't being looked after by their parents? Coz it's the right thing to do.

[Akzle]

sell the kids and drug test the teachers!

[MisterD]

Why should society "catch" kids that aren't being looked after by their parents? Coz it's the right thing to do.

No, it's not, because the day after this is implemented the number of kids not provided with breakfast by their parents will immediately quadruple.

Typical Labour solution though, increase dependency on the state handouts again and secure that client voter base.

[oneofsix]

No, it's not, because the day after this is implemented the number of kids not provided with breakfast by their parents will immediately quadruple.
This is where the original society needs to return. Yes support the kids, show them there is more and better life but make it painful/shameful for the parents that chose not to provide for their kids whilst assisting those parents that have fallen on hard times but want better for their kids. The old fashioned village way.


Typical Labour solution though, increase dependency on the state handouts again and secure that client voter base.
Big deal all the major parties do this and even some of the really minor ones.

[JimO]

Why should society "catch" kids that aren't being looked after by their parents? Coz it's the right thing to do. possibly but society should also be asking the "parents" why arnt they feeding "their" children, parents who's children turn up to school hungry need to be looked at by CYFS as they are abusing their kids, perhaps they wont mind $20 a week being deducted from their benefit to go to the school

[HenryDorsetCase]

let them die.

problem solved. then sterilise the parents.

anyone not owning property shouldnt be allowed to vote.

bring back the cane.

outlaw the treaty!

nuclear power!

[Daffyd]

I can't help wondering how many of these so-called "hungry" children go home to watch sky TV or play on an X-box.

These do-gooders and complainers should come to the Philippines and see for themselves what REAL poverty is!

[imdying]

The old fashioned village way.That's simply not true. It was far more bathed in nepotism than your post suggests.

[Swoop]

Typical Labour solution though, increase dependency on the state handouts again and secure that client voter base.
I noted on mr Shearer's tv interview yesterday, that his two schemes would potentially cost a quick 50 million.

Is there a specific mould that labour leaders come out of? Oops. Shouldn't have referred to him as a "leader" since he appears to be a stand-in until a genuine one arrives.

[oneofsix]

I can't help wondering how many of these so-called "hungry" children go home to watch sky TV or play on an X-box.

These do-gooders and complainers should come to the Philippines and see for themselves what REAL poverty is!

The do-gooders know what real poverty is. That tv if it exists is likely to be shared amongst ten others from multiple families and most likely bought with welfare money, tv's to keep the kids off the street have always been high on the welfare dept list of must haves, some times ahead of washing machines etc.
The do-gooders also know that places like the Philippines have extreme poverty and extreme wealth. NZ didn't used to have these extremes but we are moving more and more towards them. It was a much better society with less crime when it was more equal. Now we have companies importing workers from overseas to force NZ wages down to increase wealth for people who have more than they know what to do with.


As a condition of their work visas, workers sponsored by an employer can stay in New Zealand on the provision they remain in that job and could have to leave the country if they lose or leave it. That meant sponsored workers were less likely to agitate for better wages and conditions because they were dependent on the goodwill of their employers, Roche said. It also pushed down pay rates across the board (http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/7640241/Migrants-plug-holes-to-train-as-managers)

[yungatart]

For the past few weeks I have been transporting a student to school, a student who would otherwise not be in school. He is type 1 diabetic. Sometimes he didn't have lunch, or it was nowhere near enough food for a teenager.

He was told to come and see me and I would organise food for him, soup, cheese and crackers, toast and peanut butter, 2 min noodles and fruit were on offer. He never saw me, not once, he would rather go hungry than eat what we offered. Sometimes he scored a pie and a coke from the office lady, cos she felt sorry for him, but often he went hungry.

His mum is on DPB. She has no car. There were always beer and wine bottles in her recycling and Hell's pizza boxes...I'd like to be that poor, that I could afford Hell's Pizza delivered. Oh yes, they have Sky too!

Trouble is, I'm white and middle class....

[oneofsix]

For the past few weeks I have been transporting a student to school, a student who would otherwise not be in school. He is type 1 diabetic. Sometimes he didn't have lunch, or it was nowhere near enough food for a teenager.

He was told to come and see me and I would organise food for him, soup, cheese and crackers, toast and peanut butter, 2 min noodles and fruit were on offer. He never saw me, not once, he would rather go hungry than eat what we offered. Sometimes he scored a pie and a coke from the office lady, cos she felt sorry for him, but often he went hungry.

His mum is on DPB. She has no car. There were always beer and wine bottles in her recycling and Hell's pizza boxes...I'd like to be that poor, that I could afford Hell's Pizza delivered. Oh yes, they have Sky too!

Trouble is, I'm white and middle class....

Sad story and this is an example of where the kids need the support and the parent(s) need to feel the shame. The shame is it is the kid that feels the shame.

But isn't one of the brewers the mother is support one of NZ's richest but lets not cut down the booze in dairies and supermarkets. She could very well have an alcoholic addiction that requires treatment but instead of supporting treating her she will find plenty to support her continued boozing and condemn her. If she is just a waster then this is where the social stigma has been lost.

[Maha]

For the past few weeks I have been transporting a student to school, a student who would otherwise not be in school. He is type 1 diabetic. Sometimes he didn't have lunch, or it was nowhere near enough food for a teenager.

He was told to come and see me and I would organise food for him, soup, cheese and crackers, toast and peanut butter, 2 min noodles and fruit were on offer. He never saw me, not once, he would rather go hungry than eat what we offered. Sometimes he scored a pie and a coke from the office lady, cos she felt sorry for him, but often he went hungry.

His mum is on DPB. She has no car. There were always beer and wine bottles in her recycling and Hell's pizza boxes...I'd like to be that poor, that I could afford Hell's Pizza delivered. Oh yes, they have Sky too!

Trouble is, I'm white and middle class....

Very true Janet, mid 90's, I was working in the 'slum' part of Rotorua...(under contract not by choice) and one -3 frosty morning, a father kicked his little boys arse out the door, kid had no shoes on/shorts and shirt...he was crying, had not had breakfast, but thats ok because they feed the kids at the primary school right?..moments later, father/mother sat at the table and got the weed out (this is around 8:30am) and asked if I care if they have a smoke?...I said nup, packed my tools up and left..I saw that shit almost on a daily basis for the six months of that contract, it did my head in. I did not go back for more when asked...fuck em.

That little boy will be in his early 20's.. hope he chose not to continue with the trend...one can only hope.

[oneofsix]

Very true Janet, mid 90's, I was working in the 'slum' part of Rotorua...(under contract not by choice) and one -3 frosty morning, a father kicked his little boys arse out the door, kid had no shoes on/shorts and shirt...he was crying, had not had breakfast, but thats ok because they feed the kids at the primary school right?..moments later, father/mother sat at the table and got the weed out (this is around 8:30am) and asked if I care if they have a smoke?...I said nup, packed my tools up and left..I saw that shit almost on a daily basis for the six months of that contract, it did my head in. I did not go back for more when asked...fuck em.

That little boy will be in his early 20's.. hope he chose not to continue with the trend...one can only hope.

Would they scream if they were threatened with losing the kids?

[HenryDorsetCase]

Would they scream if they were threatened with losing the kids?

only to the extent that the benny would be cut accordingly.


Only the deserving poor deserve our assistance.

[Maha]

Would they scream if they were threatened with losing the kids?

Probably, because the benefit income would dwindle...would be harder for them to buy dope/smokes/alcohol and food for the dog.

Around the same time, I/we were struggling...so much so that, one night when I got home from work, there was no tea being made, when I asked why, the response was, there is no food.
I found some rice in the pantry, enough for my then wife and two daughters only.
Pretty hard to pick your arse up off ground from that scenario, but you do dont ya?

That whole period in my life is pretty vague, but one thing is very clear, the kids never went hungry and were always clothed/loved
All these years later, nothing but pride comes to mind when I think how life has turned out.

[Gremlin]

I'm sure there are those that genuinely need help, however, the stories above are not isolated, most people seem to have them... I have no sympathy for those types, who are clearly abusing the system.

These people don't know poverty either... Africa knows what poverty is...

[Akzle]

Sad story and this is an example of where the kids need the support and the parent(s) need to feel the shame. The shame is it is the kid that feels the shame.

...booze in dairies and supermarkets. She could very well have an alcoholic addiction that requires treatment...

maybe NZ should adopt islam and condemn all substances that alter ones mind to the pursuit of serving god. (we could also stop women driving, and stone the breeders to death rather than supporting their hobby...)

i think the kids should be the ONLY ones being supported. while i disagree with CYFs and the state at large, i believe as a community we're well able to do this.

[oneofsix]

only to the extent that the benny would be cut accordingly.


Only the deserving poor deserve our assistance.

No argument there trouble is most antis are using the lazy scumbags as a cover to 'punish' the deserving and even some of those scumbags were once savable deserving poor but left too long in the rubbish heap of life. One size doesn't ever fit all and the way a society treats its unfortunate is a judgement on the society.







NB scumbags as opposed to scumdogs. Scumdogs are totally unsavable, all you can do is toss trolls to scumdogs.

[Daffyd]

For the past few weeks I have been transporting a student to school, a student who would otherwise not be in school. He is type 1 diabetic. Sometimes he didn't have lunch, or it was nowhere near enough food for a teenager.

He was told to come and see me and I would organise food for him, soup, cheese and crackers, toast and peanut butter, 2 min noodles and fruit were on offer. He never saw me, not once, he would rather go hungry than eat what we offered. Sometimes he scored a pie and a coke from the office lady, cos she felt sorry for him, but often he went hungry.

His mum is on DPB. She has no car. There were always beer and wine bottles in her recycling and Hell's pizza boxes...I'd like to be that poor, that I could afford Hell's Pizza delivered. Oh yes, they have Sky too!

Trouble is, I'm white and middle class....

My point exactly!

[caseye]

Scream? because they might lose the kids? hell man they'd jump for bloody joy!
Been there, done that too, seen more than enough over prolonged periods to know that the TV's are in every house as is the wee controller and the x box, to know that Hell's Pizza and KFC are meals of choice, not necessity, my family and I can not afford such things and until recently both my wife and I worked. Can't presently, broke leg, well, almost right now but still, for the past 4 months things have been even tougher than usual, but we are managing without any f.....g gubbermint assistance. Frankly if it was offered now I'd tell em to shove it up their arse.
Most of the people I grew up with in rural Waikato NZ are the same as us, no matter their colour or creed, it's not a race thing, never has been, it's now a choice thing and those doing it know it for just that.
Show me a "genuinely"homeless kid. I'll show you a dysfunctional family unit that goes back at least the last 2, possibly 4 generations of thinking the the govt will make it right. Not, hells bells my kids are going to go hungry if I don't get off my beer laden smoke filled ( pick your flavour) arse and get a job.Remember I said at least 2 possibly 4 generations.
Don't tell me there wasn't enough work going about then.
I've been right up there and I've also started from scratch, not once but thanks to economics catching up with the firms I've worked for, 3 times now and it would seem that once again at over 50 I'll be taking on whatever comes in order that we don't lose our home and whats left of our savings.
Shearers money tree is going to have to be grafted to make this work and I hope all sensible people see this for exactly what it is.
Cynical,fraudulent vote buying, that will further dumb down and make certain of those people seeing their responsibilities further diminishing will vote for good ol Nanny F.....g state.
We need to stop taking away responsibility and start putting it right back where it should be.
They make the kids.
THEY should be made to look after them and if they so much as mistreat them or otherwise neglect them, the kids then need to be put with caring responsible people who have always wanted children and who from first hand experience love and cherish those kids far better than most of the so called parents we see out there today.
I hate Winston Peters , but he is right about one thing. No one should ever be given money for nothing, except our pensioners who have worked all of their lives to get less than a bloody dole bludger.
To quote a one time celebrity who used to think that all that was one race was good and all that was another wasn't. "No More Free Money"
Anyone care to guess who I am referring to?

[ducatilover]

His mum is on DPB. She has no car. There were always beer and wine bottles in her recycling and Hell's pizza boxes...I'd like to be that poor, that I could afford Hell's Pizza delivered. Oh yes, they have Sky too!

Trouble is, I'm white and middle class....

Unfortunately it's not always a case of them being able to afford that junk, but that they seem to prioritise it above shit they need, like doing some washing.
Possibly something to do with the fact they they haven't been sweating to make the money, thus it gets spent on luxuries (ignoring the lazy, CBF'd cooking thing and the idiotic drinking that seems to plague the lower demographic)
Or something

I for one am very glad the kids we look after for CYFS have a decent home to live in, the conditions some are forced to live in is appalling and it is entirely the parents fault if the wee buggers are not fed/clothed well (let alone raised with some love and compassion)



Bring back lynching

[mashman]

possibly but society should also be asking the "parents" why arnt they feeding "their" children, parents who's children turn up to school hungry need to be looked at by CYFS as they are abusing their kids, perhaps they wont mind $20 a week being deducted from their benefit to go to the school

I likes the sound of that as a solution.

The thing that gets me is that there are useless bastards that have kids and it is the kids that suffer. Yes there are kids around the world in by far worse conditions, but that is no reason to roll over and play dead in regards to looking after little New Zealanders is it? I don't care if Shearer is scoring points as he's addressing the issue. If he ups tax by 1% it'd likely pay for the changes they'd like to make and some... No doubt there will be others that jump on the "gravy" train, but if it's directly deducted from the parents benefit, you can apply it across the board and the gravy train jumping will be avoided.

[Ocean1]

Someone remind me, how many people out there can't have kids, and can't find one to adopt.

[Edbear]

Someone remind me, how many people out there can't have kids, and can't find one to adopt.

Someone very close to me is a great mother to her foster kids and dearly wants her own but physically can't have them. After two attempts at IVF they have two left.

It is sadly ironic that those who should not have children are popping them out recklessly and frequently.

[JimO]

Someone remind me, how many people out there can't have kids, and can't find one to adopt.
you can have my 16 year old

[scumdog]

possibly but society should also be asking the "parents" why arnt they feeding "their" children, parents who's children turn up to school hungry need to be looked at by CYFS as they are abusing their kids, perhaps they wont mind $20 a week being deducted from their benefit to go to the school

Exactly Jim - the loser parents are 'paid' to feed and clothe their kids.

Not support Noel Leemings, Liquorland, the TAB, housie or the local tinny house...

[Ocean1]

you can have my 16 year old

Consequences, dude, the wages of sin, wasn't me that got all hot and sweaty 16 years ago.

[caseye]

I likes the sound of that as a solution.

The thing that gets me is that there are useless bastards that have kids and it is the kids that suffer. Yes there are kids around the world in by far worse conditions, but that is no reason to roll over and play dead in regards to looking after little New Zealanders is it? I don't care if Shearer is scoring points as he's addressing the issue. If he ups tax by 1% it'd likely pay for the changes they'd like to make and some... No doubt there will be others that jump on the "gravy" train, but if it's directly deducted from the parents benefit, you can apply it across the board and the gravy train jumping will be avoided.

I like the sound of it too.
At what point though do we stop raising taxes to pay for things that parents/people should be doing anyway.
You don't want kids to suffer, nor does anyone else here, the question really is how to do we get those kids parents to actually look after them.
Followed by, what to do if they don't/won't or can't?
Ocean, yes! So many out there who would if they could and do when they can, but so many of these already abused ( in whatever way ) kids who are finally taken from their biological abusing parents only to be given to other abusing/useless low life family members.
Where unc an aunt or G Dad and G Ma ( who are decent and proper people) want to take em in, fine. if not Adoption, fostering, anything that gives the Kid a fighting chance to get out from under the smog of filth,deprivation and abuse that is otherwise going to be their lot for eternity.

Look lets non of us forget that we are in fact talking about a minority of a few really shitty parents.
Along with a significant number of lazy BS filled no hope er's.
Perhaps another question needs to be asked.
Should it STILL just be taken for granted that anyone who wants to can make babies?

Schools used to show teenagers how to cook, to balance books, to make things out of wood, to type and to adhere to timetables and uniform codes.
Today, that's too tough.Computers were supposed to take all the crappy stuff away, no need to cook, clean and do housework or make things!
Beep! Wrong.
Perhaps we should be making our govt's actually put enough funding into schools that these basics are once again Mainstream Curriculum.
Along with the 3 R's.
My last (of 3) daughter is finishing 7th form this year,shes strange and is doing outdoor ed , cooking/economics, history and geography, oh and drama ( as if there's not already enough of that in our lives) but the bulk of the kids are doing anything that doesn't involve good old fashioned hard work and study.


\

[mashman]

Consequences, dude, the wages of sin, wasn't me that got all hot and sweaty 16 years ago.

I just threw up in my mouth. cheers ya bastard.

[idb]

Exactly Jim - the loser parents are 'paid' to feed and clothe their kids.

Not support Noel Leemings, Liquorland, the TAB, housie or the local tinny house...

You heartless bastard..."Won't someone think of the shareholders?!"

[Brian d marge]

A good read is " http://www.amazon.com/Five-Families-Mexican-Studies-Culture/dp/0465097057

you wont because it doesnt fit with your ideas , but its worth a try to give a heads up

but roughly

<cite>The people in the culture of poverty have a strong feeling of marginality, of helplessness, of dependency, of not belonging. They are like aliens in their own country, convinced that the existing institutions do not serve their interests and needs. Along with this feeling of powerlessness is a widespread feeling of inferiority, of personal unworthiness. This is true of the slum dwellers of Mexico City (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexico_City), who do not constitute a distinct ethnic or racial group (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_%28classification_of_human_beings%29) and do not suffer from racial discrimination. In the United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States) the culture of poverty that exists in the Negroes has the additional disadvantage of racial discrimination (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_discrimination). People with a culture of poverty have very little sense of history. They are a marginal people who know only their own troubles, their own local conditions, their own neighborhood, their own way of life. Usually, they have neither the knowledge, the vision nor the ideology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideology) to see the similarities between their problems and those of others like themselves elsewhere in the world. In other words, they are not class conscious (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Class_consciousness), although they are very sensitive indeed to status distinctions. When the poor become class conscious or members of trade union organizations, or when they adopt an internationalist outlook on the world they are, in my view, no longer part of the culture of poverty although they may still be desperately poor.</cite> (Lewis 1998)

with all its social ills that come with the above



Stephen

[imdying]

What we need is a final solution. I'm pretty sure we can buy some ex commuter trains cheap, and it can't cost that much to build some camps to send them to.

Money is not going to fix this problem. Genocide and sterilization will. Monkeys shouldn't be allowed to breed. I've said it before... you cannot expect two thousand years of evolution in two hundred years; it's not fair or even possible. Whiteys doing this to their kids... they're even fucking worse, they should know better.

Put them on the trains to the camps; once we get most them on, then we'll explain the rest.

[tigertim20]

No, it's not, because the day after this is implemented the number of kids not provided with breakfast by their parents will immediately quadruple.

Typical Labour solution though, increase dependency on the state handouts again and secure that client voter base.

that is a good point. this whole kids being hungry thing is farcical, its a smoke and mirror type scenario to ignore the core issue. brainless, selfish fuckin human beings breed without thought or consideration for whether or not they will actually be able to provide the necessary food, shelter, love and support (financial and otherwise) BEFORE they go blowing their load up some girls hooch.

If you havent sat down and thought about it, and worked out a backup plan if things get tough etc etc, then you have no place having fuckin kids in the first place. its the thoughtlessness of parents that create the issue, having children with no certainty that they can even provide for them for 18 years (or less if they become independent and leave home sooner)

how about sorting out the real core issues rather than pissing time against a wall talking about stupid problems that wouldnt exist if we actually approached and resolved the contributing factors that cause these issues in the first place.

too many people just wanna jump on a bandwagon and dont look at the bigger picture

[mashman]

I like the sound of it too.
At what point though do we stop raising taxes to pay for things that parents/people should be doing anyway.
You don't want kids to suffer, nor does anyone else here, the question really is how to do we get those kids parents to actually look after them.
Followed by, what to do if they don't/won't or can't?

Should it STILL just be taken for granted that anyone who wants to can make babies?

Perhaps we should be making our govt's actually put enough funding into schools that these basics are once again Mainstream Curriculum.
Along with the 3 R's.
My last (of 3) daughter is finishing 7th form this year,shes strange and is doing outdoor ed , cooking/economics, history and geography, oh and drama ( as if there's not already enough of that in our lives) but the bulk of the kids are doing anything that doesn't involve good old fashioned hard work and study.


For any answer that is out forwards there won't be enough money. Save from here, remove from there. I'm all for looking after the kids instead of building more roads, but that's highly unlikely to be a priority for anyone in politics. Ideally you'd send the parents and kids to an island for a month or two with enough food, some books and a football. Those who don't feed the kids can be lost at sea on the trip back.

Unfortunately I'm starting to wonder if we shouldn't all be reversibly sterilised... but keep coming back to what criteria you would use for being allowed to have the reversal? That work "allowed" has my back up straight away... but there's no guarantee that the people who get the ok to breed will be good parents eh.

:killingme... I shouldn't laugh at the thought of us making the govt do anything. I'm if the money was there they would put it into education :blink:.
I have to ask. How many of you guys went into the working world thinking, I'm going to be a good hard working productive member of society and a roaring success in anything I decide to turn my hand to? as opposed to, I'll go do that job and earn some cash so that I can score me booze and drugs? I was most definitely in the latter group and to a certain degree still am, albeit without the booze or the drugs these days. I'm not surprised that "kids" just want to do the bare minimum. They're still having fun... something "adults" would do well to remember instead of this fucked up work work work and then work some more because your country needs workers to grow and make lots of money for the people that you work for.

[idb]

that is a good point. this whole kids being hungry thing is farcical, its a smoke and mirror type scenario to ignore the core issue. brainless, selfish fuckin human beings breed without thought or consideration for whether or not they will actually be able to provide the necessary food, shelter, love and support (financial and otherwise) BEFORE they go blowing their load up some girls hooch.

If you havent sat down and thought about it, and worked out a backup plan if things get tough etc etc, then you have no place having fuckin kids in the first place. its the thoughtlessness of parents that create the issue, having children with no certainty that they can even provide for them for 18 years (or less if they become independent and leave home sooner)

how about sorting out the real core issues rather than pissing time against a wall talking about stupid problems that wouldnt exist if we actually approached and resolved the contributing factors that cause these issues in the first place.

too many people just wanna jump on a bandwagon and dont look at the bigger picture

I'm sure the hungry kids care about the politics.
Feed them while you're sorting out the parents.

[Akzle]

How many of you guys went into the working world thinking, I'm going to be a good hard working productive member of society and a roaring success in anything I decide to turn my hand to?

i do. but i pick my society. because theirs is fucked.

[idb]

i do. but i pick my society. because theirs is fucked.

Where is this alternate society?

...and why is a hardarse like yourself quoting Meatloaf??!!!!

[Akzle]

Where is this alternate society?

alternate society? my place. infact i take it with me everywhere i go...

[scumdog]

alternate society? my place. infact i take it with me everywhere i go...

You go places?

In your head don't count ya know...

[idb]

alternate society? my place. infact i take it with me everywhere i go...

You take your place every where you go?
Are you a snail?
Or a turtle?

And what's your excuse about Meatloaf?
Is he part of your alternate society where Jim Steinman is a poet?

[AllanB]

Opposition is such a easy place to be by any party - just bag any of the Governments ideas and come up with publicly popular ones irrespective of the cost to buy votes.

Weetbix are cheap, milk is reasonable, $10 will buy a box of Weetbix and 2 litres of milk - enough to feed a kid breakfast for a week.

The problem is if they start eating before school then the kids will start shitting more at home and the poor parents will have to buy more loo paper thus short changing them breakfast funds. It is a vicious cycle.

Best to let the Government sort out the parenting - all that had work deserves an afternoon sleep on the couch.........

[mashman]

i do. but i pick my society. because theirs is fucked.

lucky bugga... it's not fucked, it just needs some loose screws replaced.

[Akzle]

You take your place every where you go?
Are you a snail?
Or a turtle?

And what's your excuse about Meatloaf?
Is he part of your alternate society where Jim Steinman is a poet?

yes. i take my place everywhere i go.

it is an apt quote. but you reminded me it was about time for a sig change.
do you not think a wasted youth is better than a wise and productive old age?

[idb]

yes. i take my place everywhere i go.

it is an apt quote. but you reminded me it was about time for a sig change.
do you not think a wasted youth is better than a wise and productive old age?

That principle means that you'll never know.

But, I'm interested - in your alternate society, what does it mean to waste your youth...or even to have a productive old age?
What're the measures in your universe?
How do you reference 'wasted' against 'productive'?
You've obviously thought about it a lot, and decided to tie your personal outlook to Jim Steinman's legendary words, so I'm interested in your philosophy.

[Akzle]

...in your alternate society, what does it mean to waste your youth...or even to have a productive old age?
What're the measures in your universe?
How do you reference 'wasted' against 'productive'?
You've obviously thought about it a lot, and decided to tie your personal outlook to Jim Steinman's legendary words, so I'm interested in your philosophy.

that, as it was written in your society, refers to Yyour society. whereby "get a haircut and a real job" is what's the kids are told.
so from this perspective.. wasting your youth would involve having long hair and no job. probably doing things like driving motorbikes, fast cars, getting drunk and fucking bitches too.
a productive old age would be knocking one up, feeding the kid. getting a haircut and a "real job" selling your ass to "the man" for 40 hours a week having a mortgage and a wife you don't like that much but don't want to give half the house to, and dying somewhere warm without actually accomplishing much.
or you could take his other lyric about dying at the bottom of a ditch in the blazing sun, torn at twisted at the foot of a burning bike. in which case the wasted youth would be his, on the assumption that his youth could have *presumably* been put to some constructive use within society.

the measures in my universe? depends what i'm measuring. most things, millimeters. to 3 decimal places.

how do I reference wasted against productive? wasted would be doing something i didn't want to do, for an ideal i did not believe in.
productive, is doing what i need to do to be happy, to keep my kids fed, (if not happy) and benefiting those around me with my wisdom :D and my awesome shiney tools.

i don't tie my outlook to anything. it, as everything else, is fluid and changing, by the year/day/minute/second/lightyear/millenia.
oneday i might meet someone who has some good ideas, i will discuss it at length, and contemplate it over a joint with them. then, i may change my outlook, or (better) i may change their outlook. i may make their life better.

[idb]

that, as it was written in your society, refers to Yyour society. whereby "get a haircut and a real job" is what's the kids are told.
so from this perspective.. wasting your youth would involve having long hair and no job. probably doing things like driving motorbikes, fast cars, getting drunk and fucking bitches too.
a productive old age would be knocking one up, feeding the kid. getting a haircut and a "real job" selling your ass to "the man" for 40 hours a week having a mortgage and a wife you don't like that much but don't want to give half the house to, and dying somewhere warm without actually accomplishing much.
or you could take his other lyric about dying at the bottom of a ditch in the blazing sun, torn at twisted at the foot of a burning bike. in which case the wasted youth would be his, on the assumption that his youth could have *presumably* been put to some constructive use within society.

the measures in my universe? depends what i'm measuring. most things, millimeters. to 3 decimal places.

how do I reference wasted against productive? wasted would be doing something i didn't want to do, for an ideal i did not believe in.
productive, is doing what i need to do to be happy, to keep my kids fed, (if not happy) and benefiting those around me with my wisdom :D and my awesome shiney tools.

i don't tie my outlook to anything. it, as everything else, is fluid and changing, by the year/day/minute/second/lightyear/millenia.
oneday i might meet someone who has some good ideas, i will discuss it at length, and contemplate it over a joint with them. then, i may change my outlook, or (better) i may change their outlook. i may make their life better.

Well, now you've really confused me.
I'll admit that I'm drinking at the moment so my comprehension skills might be a bit lacking.

You (or Jim S) said that "a wasted youth is better than a productive old age."
Now you tell me that "wasted would be doing something I didn't want to do, for an ideal I did not believe in."
And, further, "productive, is doing what I need to do to be happy, to keep my kids fed."
So you (and Jim) are saying that keeping your kids fed and yourself happy are less better than doing something than you don't want to do, for an ideal you don't believe in.

If I'm going to follow you, oh Messiah, I need to understand.

[Maha]

probably doing things like driving motorbikes,


Driving Motorbikes? :confused:

[Nova.]

that, as it was written in your society, refers to Yyour society. whereby "get a haircut and a real job" is what's the kids are told.
so from this perspective.. wasting your youth would involve having long hair and no job. probably doing things like driving motorbikes, fast cars, getting drunk and fucking bitches too.


I ride motorbikes fast cars, get drunk, fuck bitches AND have a real job and a haircut.
Is there something wrong with me?

[oneofsix]

I ride motorbikes fast cars, get drunk, fuck bitches AND have a real job and a haircut.
Is there something wrong with me?

:yes: you ride fast cars :nono: you should be driving them. Don't you know that sitting on the roof of a fast car you don't have a seat belt. :bleh:

:corn:

[Swoop]

Shearers money tree is going to have to be grafted to make this work and I hope all sensible people see this for exactly what it is.
Cynical,fraudulent vote buying, that will further dumb down and make certain of those people seeing their responsibilities further diminishing will vote for good ol Nanny F.....g state.
A standard labour tactic.
Sadly, the stupid fall for it time and time again.

What we need is a final solution. I'm pretty sure we can buy some ex commuter trains cheap, and it can't cost that much to build some camps to send them to.
A good mate is completely convinced that NZ's "final solution" is Porirua.
He makes a good argument for his theory as well.

[ducatilover]

I ride motorbikes fast cars, get drunk, fuck bitches AND have a real job and a haircut.
Is there something wrong with me?

Yes. :niceone:

[HenryDorsetCase]

If I'm going to follow you, oh Messiah, I need to understand.

don't you know anything about following a Messiah? It is key that you DON"T understand. If you did you would not be suitable flock-fodder.

[HenryDorsetCase]

I ride motorbikes fast cars, get drunk, fuck bitches AND have a real job and a haircut.
Is there something wrong with me?

Yes, you refer to women (who have been kind enough to have the sex with you - so by definition, charity workers) as "bitches".

Do you live in a rap video?

[Akzle]

I ride motorbikes fast cars, get drunk, fuck bitches AND have a real job and a haircut.
Is there something wrong with me?
dunno.
are you happy?


...
You (or Jim S) said that "a wasted youth is better than a productive old age."
Now you tell me that "wasted would be doing something I didn't want to do, for an ideal I did not believe in."...

...If I'm going to follow you, oh Messiah, I need to understand.
keep drinking. it will come.

you missed the point. the lyric refers to YOUR society. the definitions following were MY definitions.

i make no claim to messiah-dom, nor do i want you to stand under, nor follow me.
being a (half-cut, half-funny) jackass isn't going to improve your condition.


don't you know anything about following a Messiah? It is key that you DON"T understand. If you did you would not be suitable flock-fodder.

so... can you explain the global financial system to me. more, could you explain it to a five year old?
(no. but you're sure as shit the fleeced flock, innit.)

[James Deuce]

Show me a "genuinely"homeless kid. I'll show you a dysfunctional family unit that goes back at least the last 2, possibly 4 generations of thinking the the govt will make it right.
Really? I've been homeless twice in the last two years. I've kept my family together, my kids in school, and I'm not the only one.


There's no help from the government. It's a myth.


Family are useless.


Most "Friends" disappear. One or two offer real help, but get overwhelmed very quickly by the magnitude of the issue they suddenly find themselves involved in.


The "brotherhood of motorcycling" is almost the biggest lie of all, third behind "community spirited Kiwis" and "there is no poverty in NZ". There is no help for a family with nowhere to go, especially if you are dumb enough to keep your job going while this is going on.


I know that many of you have struggled. I can also tell you that you've never lived in poverty, never understood the despair of being abandoned by everyone you know for being a "loser" and "obviously bringing it on yourself" despite being the victim of fraud for which people were jailed, but the victims never informed, and a multi-national exiting the NZ financial market after illegally acquiring 660 mortgages, realising they were in the shit, and simply winding their affairs up to avoid the legal ramifications.


That is how some people end up in poverty but you dare not tell anyone because the set of circumstances I've described is so beyond what right thinking people expect that you can only be a liar and a loser to have gone through that. How can you be in poverty, I hear you judgementally cry? Because you still end up owing money to people because of the financial fiddles pulled to allow a trillion dollar business to exit NZ's financial market. With nothing to show for it.


People don't choose poverty. I don't care how many losers or bludgers the privileged middle class of NZ "know" (believe me, you don't know them), there's a huge number of people out there doing the best they can with nothing to hand, nothing in reserve, and they don't deserve the bilious derision levelled at them by a right-wing government and it's media lackeys and they certainly deserve a great deal more critical thinking on the part of their fellow citizens when it comes to evaluating their personal worth.


And, no, I can't afford a lawyer, so I just have to suck it up and thank whatever passes for everyone else's imaginary friend that I have some friend's and workmates who stuck, and continue to stick by me.

[Brian d marge]

Really? I've been homeless twice in the last two years. I've kept my family together, my kids in school, and I'm not the only one.


There's no help from the government. It's a myth.


Family are useless.


Most "Friends" disappear. One or two offer real help, but get overwhelmed very quickly by the magnitude of the issue they suddenly find themselves involved in.


The "brotherhood of motorcycling" is almost the biggest lie of all, third behind "community spirited Kiwis" and "there is no poverty in NZ". There is no help for a family with nowhere to go, especially if you are dumb enough to keep your job going while this is going on.


I know that many of you have struggled. I can also tell you that you've never lived in poverty, never understood the despair of being abandoned by everyone you know for being a "loser" and "obviously bringing it on yourself" despite being the victim of fraud for which people were jailed, but the victims never informed, and a multi-national exiting the NZ financial market after illegally acquiring 660 mortgages, realising they were in the shit, and simply winding their affairs up to avoid the legal ramifications.


That is how some people end up in poverty but you dare not tell anyone because the set of circumstances I've described is so beyond what right thinking people expect that you can only be a liar and a loser to have gone through that. How can you be in poverty, I hear you judgementally cry? Because you still end up owing money to people because of the financial fiddles pulled to allow a trillion dollar business to exit NZ's financial market. With nothing to show for it.


People don't choose poverty. I don't care how many losers or bludgers the privileged middle class of NZ "know" (believe me, you don't know them), there's a huge number of people out there doing the best they can with nothing to hand, nothing in reserve, and they don't deserve the bilious derision levelled at them by a right-wing government and it's media lackeys and they certainly deserve a great deal more critical thinking on the part of their fellow citizens when it comes to evaluating their personal worth.


And, no, I can't afford a lawyer, so I just have to suck it up and thank whatever passes for everyone else's imaginary friend that I have some friend's and workmates who stuck, and continue to stick by me.

An assumption ther JD , Ive had me are handed to me on a plate back in the day , as in oh fk , .

As ive said a million times before and will a million times more , we can be just a heartbeat from "it all going south " and then you need the safety net that is the state ..

BUT ...if you things can be bad now days ....

Here's a report from my neck of the woods back a few years ago

Old Nichol st , for those who were DRs in London

http://archive.org/stream/bittercryofoutca00pres#page/n5/mode/2up


I couldnt read all the way through , will have another go soon

Stephen

PS , the NZ treasury use the workforce and the ( low) wage economy to control inflation , now that is evil

[HenryDorsetCase]

so... can you explain the global financial system to me. more, could you explain it to a five year old?
(no. but you're sure as shit the fleeced flock, innit.)[]

In English, please?

[Oblivion]

It looks like beneficiaries risk losing some of their benefit if they do not have their child in ECE, enrolled with a local GP, and have wellchild checks. Along with being in school at age 5 or 6.

Sounds like a smart idea to be honest. This will stop parents on the DPB using the extra money that they get, on themselves instead of on their child. That will teach them what its really like to have a child. And hopefully put brakes on the baby train society.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/7653313/Welfare-reforms-target-kids-education-health


Parents face having their benefits slashed in half if they don't send their children to school or early childhood education centres and enrol them with a doctor.

They must also complete basic health checks.

Social development minister Paula Bennet has just announced new 'social obligations' which she says will give kids a better start in life.

Around 125,000 beneficiary parents support more than 220,000 children and Bennett says the social obligations are ''reasonable and achievable.''

Parents already face losing 50 per cent of their main benefit from next month if they don't meet 'work obligations' - such as failing to attend a job interview.

From July next year all beneficiary parents must ensure their children:

* attend 15 hours a week Early Childhood Education (ECE) from age 3

* attend school from age five or six

* enrol with a General Practitioner

* complete core WellChild/Tamariki Ora checks

If they don't, a ''graduated sanction process'' will allow three warnings before they face a cut of up to 50 per cent.

"Social obligations will ensure dependent children of beneficiaries access and benefit from vital education and health services," Bennett said.

"These services are particularly important for vulnerable children as many currently miss out; we have an opportunity to address this through reforms."

Parents will get help if they are seen as high risk or are vulnerable or have complex needs. The scheme will cost $1.4 million to administer.

Last week Bennett announced she will stop payments to beneficiaries subject to arrest warrants. They will also be penalised if they refuse to apply for drug-tested jobs.

National's welfare reforms are expected to save up to $1b over four years but involve controversial proposals such as financial assistance for contraception. There are expectations single parents with children aged over five will undertake part-time work, and those with children aged over 14 full-time work.

Welfare payments costs around $7.6b every year.

[Akzle]

Really? I've been homeless twice in the last two years. I've kept my family together, my kids in school, and I'm not the only one.
ends" disappear. One or two offer real help,
bro. my iife n living aint flash but if you need my place you're welcome to it.
-edit- * as long as you're not a dick.


In English, please?
please explain the IMF, global financial system and "economy" so as a five year old could understand it...

[James Deuce]

It looks like beneficiaries risk losing some of their benefit if they do not have their child in ECE, enrolled with a local GP, and have wellchild checks. Along with being in school at age 5 or 6.

Sounds like a smart idea to be honest. This will stop parents on the DPB using the extra money that they get, on themselves instead of on their child. That will teach them what its really like to have a child. And hopefully put brakes on the baby train society.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/7653313/Welfare-reforms-target-kids-education-health
Gaaaaaaaaah. Is this thing on? No? FFS.

Assumptions piled on assumptions, followed up with beating people up for not complying with arbitrary conditions that may or may not be available where they live (yes, yes, "move somewhere where those services are" - who pays for it? Who provides transport and moving firms?). I have a challenge for you. Leave your GP. Pick up your notes. Go and try and find another GP.

"Stop parents using the money on themselves". Oh yeah, every beneficiary is a drug taking, chippy eating, smoking loser. Sorry, I forgot. What about those who aren't on a benefit but have no access to any of that stuff, have nowhere to live and just enough money to get to and from work? You;re happy criminalising those people are you?

[imdying]

I have a challenge for you. Leave your GP. Pick up your notes. Go and try and find another GP.That's easy... but there's no need to pick up your notes, they'll take care of that at the new place. Might be more a problem for people who're fussy... me, I could give two shits who looks after my bits... Currently I have an ex army doctor... she's is ahhh... to the point you could say!

[Nova.]

Yes, you refer to women (who have been kind enough to have the sex with you - so by definition, charity workers) as "bitches".

Do you live in a rap video?

They call me krispy kreme

[James Deuce]

That's easy... but there's no need to pick up your notes, they'll take care of that at the new place. Might be more a problem for people who're fussy... me, I could give two shits who looks after my bits... Currently I have an ex army doctor... she's is ahhh... to the point you could say!

Isn't available in Wellington or Wairarapa. All GP services are over-subscribed and After Hours where my wife works gets hammered by those without GPs to find them one. Many people simply pay the $120 fee to get access to a doctor at After Hours because they have no choice.

[imdying]

I'd find a spot no worries. Actually no, I probably wouldn't, I'd make HR do it for me :laugh:

[SPman]

People don't choose poverty. I don't care how many losers or bludgers the privileged middle class of NZ "know" (believe me, you don't know them), there's a huge number of people out there doing the best they can with nothing to hand, nothing in reserve, and they don't deserve the bilious derision levelled at them by a right-wing government and it's media lackeys and they certainly deserve a great deal more critical thinking on the part of their fellow citizens when it comes to evaluating their personal worth.
Critical thinking....amongst the general populace...........anathema!


(although I do see signs of grumbling stirrings from some more enlightened of the masses......)

[idb]

you missed the point. the lyric refers to YOUR society. the definitions following were MY definitions.

You have no point...that is the point.
You have some half-baked philosophy to justify your broken-arsedness, that's all.
I suspect you should be thanking others (i.e. 'taxpayers') for for subsidising your lifestyle.

[Akzle]

You have no point...that is the point.
You have some half-baked philosophy to justify your broken-arsedness, that's all.
I suspect you should be thanking others (i.e. 'taxpayers') for for subsidising your lifestyle.

my philosophy is completely baked. in an oven, at 300 degrees, for five thousand years.
my arse isn't broken.
and what would you base that suspicion on???

have a nice life bru. i will be.

[Brian d marge]

Stuff .con .national party

great headline

Beneficiaries cost NZ 78 BILLION fking ell you dolies , get a job , why am I paying for this ,....22 million A DAY said paula ( gordon ) bennet

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/7656587/Cost-of-beneficiaries-78b-report


As I have shown before nearly HALF of these beneficiaries , are on the Pension, ( posted it here many times on KB and the info is available from the Govn website )

Soooo.... what are we going to do , 22 million , half of which is Just being squandered by these oldies .......

269999



Stephen

[Akzle]

Soooo.... what are we going to do , 22 million , half of which is Just being squandered by these oldies .......




Stephen

old cunts! i hate old cunts! what do they contribute to society.. f*ing bludgers.
DRUG TEST THEM!. and kick them off the pension if they smoke weeeeed.
and they get free bus rides, discounted healthcare (and they need a lot - because they're old) what a crock!

[James Deuce]

You could build camps to keep all the oldies in to reduce transport, logistics and housing costs, and have these special shower blocks so that when their healthcare requirements get over a certain value, they could go and "take a shower".

We could of course work on Job creation to sort the other half and if they won't submit to an extensive list of conditions, we could move them into special work camps to reduce transport, logistics and housing costs and if they refuse to take a job that includes daily anal probes, drug and alcohol testing, and an RFID chip in the back of the neck to track movement and pruchasing habits and if they don't submit to this willingly we could build a special shower block so they can "take a shower" when they fail to meet these conditions, once, in one category.

Of course this isn't quite the final solution as our goal would be to reduce Government costs, so we could surgically implant a thermite bomb near the base of the skull of all children born under a certain economic threshold eliminating the need for the camps (parental net worth, number of posts on facebook, TC3 landowners in Christchurch, anyone from West Auckland, Glenfield, Naenae and Taita, and Hornby, anywhere more than 60 Kilometers from the 5 main centres) which would be set off by the nearby RFID chip if any non-prescription drugs were detected in the bloodstream, alcohol consumed, if they ate any meals that weren't bought from a major takeaway franchise (preserve the local Fish & Chip shop for the rich - they have fond memories of them from when they were state-house dwelling single-parented urchins, who didn't get where they are today by molly-coddling the undeserving), own a vehicle that isn't a Ford or a Holden or enrol at University.

[oneofsix]

Stuff .con .national party

great headline

Beneficiaries cost NZ 78 BILLION fking ell you dolies , get a job , why am I paying for this ,....22 million A DAY said paula ( gordon ) bennet

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/7656587/Cost-of-beneficiaries-78b-report


As I have shown before nearly HALF of these beneficiaries , are on the Pension, ( posted it here many times on KB and the info is available from the Govn website )

Soooo.... what are we going to do , 22 million , half of which is Just being squandered by these oldies .......


Stephen

What you going to do, put them all on the sickness or unemployment benefit? There isn't any work for them and most of them will have contributed to society already. Stop moaning and do your bit. Oh that's right you ran off to the land of the rising sun so :shutup: you coward.

:jerry:


old cunts! i hate old cunts! what do they contribute to society.. f*ing bludgers.
DRUG TEST THEM!. and kick them off the pension if they smoke weeeeed.
and they get free bus rides, discounted healthcare (and they need a lot - because they're old) what a crock!
WTF do you care? you keep saying you aren't part of the society they helped build so you to can :shutup: and stick your head in a bucket. There would be no buses nor health care without these old farts. And yet you insist on using early 1980s colours for your posts, you are soooo old fashioned.

:jerry:

[Swoop]

Soooo.... what are we going to do , 22 million , half of which is Just being squandered by these oldies.

Very simple.

Just drug test the oldies. How many of them aren't on drugs?
Saves vast amounts on community services cards, prescriptions, etc.

(Pharmaceutical conglomerates will not be happy, however...)


Do I have to do all of the thinking around here?<_<

[oneofsix]

Very simple.

Just drug test the oldies. How many of them aren't on drugs?
Saves vast amounts on community services cards, prescriptions, etc.




Do I have to do all of the thinking around here?<_<

:no:

If you could do some thinking it would help :corn:

The drug testing, like everything from governments, is misnamed as it only covers illegal drugs. The oldies are kept happy on prescription drugs. Fail.

[sootie]

old cunts! i hate old cunts! what do they contribute to society.. f*ing bludgers.
DRUG TEST THEM!. and kick them off the pension if they smoke weeeeed.
and they get free bus rides, discounted healthcare (and they need a lot - because they're old) what a crock!
I don't smoke weed, but I do go through a bottle of whisky every 6 weeks or so, do use free bus rides, and do use discounted healthcare for which I am genuinely grateful. I also collect the pension.
I have said I don't want any more birthdays, but they keep happening.
Perhaps if I stopped taking some of my prescription drugs I would then become poorly enough that I would no longer bother you. Should I do that?? :confused:

[mashman]

You could build camps to keep all the oldies in to reduce transport, logistics and housing costs, and have these special shower blocks so that when their healthcare requirements get over a certain value, they could go and "take a shower".

We could of course work on Job creation to sort the other half and if they won't submit to an extensive list of conditions, we could move them into special work camps to reduce transport, logistics and housing costs and if they refuse to take a job that includes daily anal probes, drug and alcohol testing, and an RFID chip in the back of the neck to track movement and pruchasing habits and if they don't submit to this willingly we could build a special shower block so they can "take a shower" when they fail to meet these conditions, once, in one category.

Of course this isn't quite the final solution as our goal would be to reduce Government costs, so we could surgically implant a thermite bomb near the base of the skull of all children born under a certain economic threshold eliminating the need for the camps (parental net worth, number of posts on facebook, TC3 landowners in Christchurch, anyone from West Auckland, Glenfield, Naenae and Taita, and Hornby, anywhere more than 60 Kilometers from the 5 main centres) which would be set off by the nearby RFID chip if any non-prescription drugs were detected in the bloodstream, alcohol consumed, if they ate any meals that weren't bought from a major takeaway franchise (preserve the local Fish & Chip shop for the rich - they have fond memories of them from when they were state-house dwelling single-parented urchins, who didn't get where they are today by molly-coddling the undeserving), own a vehicle that isn't a Ford or a Holden or enrol at University.

Why not just have a thermite bomb placed in the vagina and when it senses semen it explodes? This works on many levels. Those who are irresponsible enough to have unprotected sex will not be able to have sex again, let alone children... this will remove the issue of overpopulation as you will need a bypass code inserted into your penis to stop the exploding vagina when you do find the one that you want to have kids with. STD's will drop dramatically. It may prevent some rape and fiddy kiddling too.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Why not just have a thermite bomb placed in the vagina and when it senses semen it explodes? This works on many levels. Those who are irresponsible enough to have unprotected sex will not be able to have sex again, let alone children... this will remove the issue of overpopulation as you will need a bypass code inserted into your penis to stop the exploding vagina when you do find the one that you want to have kids with. STD's will drop dramatically. It may prevent some rape and fiddy kiddling too.


You've read Neal Stephenson's "Snow Crash" then?

If not, you should:

http://www.bookdepository.com/Snow-Crash-Neal-Stephenson/9780241953181

[Brian d marge]

What you going to do, put them all on the sickness or unemployment benefit? There isn't any work for them and most of them will have contributed to society already. Stop moaning and do your bit. Oh that's right you ran off to the land of the rising sun so :shutup: you coward.

:jerry:


WTF do you care? you keep saying you aren't part of the society they helped build so you to can :shutup: and stick your head in a bucket. There would be no buses nor health care without these old farts. And yet you insist on using early 1980s colours for your posts, you are soooo old fashioned.

:jerry:I merely pointed out the facts that’s all, I’ve done my bit for NZ probably far more than you , so I can sleep at night with regard to that...

In all of these post , I refer to pretty much the same old things...why? cos that is whats happening, if you look , only from memory the "bludgers" were approx 1, 2 % , the oldies were nearly half
so its quite wrong to say the unemployed or the Maori , or ,,,were ruining the country

its an age old trick , to confuse the oldies to make them vote national , and divert the medias gaze

but then you don’t want to hear that because it doesnt sit well with your belief system

Stephen

notice I did not say the oldies weren’t entitled to the pension , not once have I ever said that

and I prefer 70s colours

[Brian d marge]

heres one possible solution

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/xSnLU9nyFSA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

stephen

[lakedaemonian]

So if it's a good idea for the school system to go into the welfare food service and delivery industry, then I guess it would make sense for Work & Income to go into the rocketry business?

Surely if would make sense for Work & Income to start building rockets in order to create jobs just like it makes sense for the school system in the business of educating kids should go into the food service and delivery industry.

Should schools be in the business of feeding kids, absolutely not.

Schools are having a hard enough time trying to do a mediocre job at educating children....throwing another role and responsibility at an underperforming system is NOT the answer.

If a system is doing mediocre at best, the LAST thing you do is expand their role, responsibility, and mission.....that's called mission creep.....and that's just insane.

If anyone in the school system WANTS this job then they are guilty of empire building in my opinion.

-------

If the conversation is about hungry kids....that should be covered by the relevant agencies.......I'm not opposed to more support.....I'm just opposed to insanity.

[avgas]

Why should society "catch" kids that aren't being looked after by their parents? Coz it's the right thing to do.
Its funny mashy, usually you and I and Akzle are at ends as to who is right here. But I think when it comes to kids we hit a middle ground.
I do think we should help kids out. For one simple reason.
You can pick your nose but you can't pick your parents.

Food at schools is a good thing. Much better than money for smokes/piss/car loans.....etc.
Food at schools shows kids that their parents might be a bunch of fuckwits.

Now to prove I am still a non-loving arsehole...
"Ban the benefit! Feed the kids!"

[Ocean1]

notice I did not say the oldies weren’t entitled to the pension , not once have I ever said that


That's nice.

I once had a conversation with a senior polly about pensions. I asked him what the mechanism was which provided for pensions, and what how did it accomodate the population boom. He said surely I didn't think pensions were fully funded, paid from existing taxes. I said that I didn't know, hence the question, but that as a matter of principle I did expect that in fact, how else could it work with heavy population variations. He got all indignant, I was taking shots at his system, (yes, it was his system, then). I simply asserted that as far as I knew a portion of my taxes was being invested against the day I retired, I suggested to him that most of the country had similar expectations.

There's no such accumulated resource, of course, they blew it all buying votes from fuckwits. Not only that but in taxing me as one of the small majority of decent income earners based on wages and small business income they've effectively deprived me of the ability to provide for my own retirement.

At a national level the problem gets worse, this lot have begun to retire:

Wiki:

Baby Boomers control over 80% of personal financial assets and more than 50% of discretionary spending power., July 2011 They are responsible for more than half of all consumer spending, buy 77% of all prescription drugs, 61% of OTC medication and 80% of all leisure travel.


And if you're worried about our ability to pay for their upkeep then consider this: we'll be doing it without the contributions from what currently represents well over half of the personal income based tax take.

Next time someone offers you a bribe for your vote, ask what it'll cost your kids.

[Akzle]

geez.
i didn't think anyone would actually take that seriously. obviously there IS a genuine need.

for comic sans.

will they be testing beneficiaries for "legal highs" like if they smoke "chronik" at work.. which isn't illegal....

[husaberg]

geez.
i didn't think anyone would actually take that seriously. obviously there IS a genuine need.

for comic sans.

will they be testing beneficiaries for "legal highs" like if they smoke "chronik" at work.. which isn't illegal....

not all of them

Legal high ban passed by Parliament
Published: 5:23PM Thursday August 04, 2011 Source: ONE News
New legislation banning synthetic cannabis has been passed by Parliament.
The third and final reading of legislation reforming the Misuse of Drugs Act wrapped up around 5pm today.
It means cannabinoids used in products like Kronic are now illegal.
The Bill passed 104 votes to 15 with only Act, the Greens and Labour's Chris Carter opposing.
The law also puts further controls on the sale of drug utensils such as cannabis pipes

[mashman]

You've read Neal Stephenson's "Snow Crash" then?

If not, you should:

http://www.bookdepository.com/Snow-Crash-Neal-Stephenson/9780241953181

heh, I can't read books... but that does look interesting.

[Brian d marge]

That's nice.

I once had a conversation with a senior polly about pensions. I asked him what the mechanism was which provided for pensions, and what how did it accomodate the population boom. He said surely I didn't think pensions were fully funded, paid from existing taxes. I said that I didn't know, hence the question, but that as a matter of principle I did expect that in fact, how else could it work with heavy population variations. He got all indignant, I was taking shots at his system, (yes, it was his system, then). I simply asserted that as far as I knew a portion of my taxes was being invested against the day I retired, I suggested to him that most of the country had similar expectations.

There's no such accumulated resource, of course, they blew it all buying votes from fuckwits. Not only that but in taxing me as one of the small majority of decent income earners based on wages and small business income they've effectively deprived me of the ability to provide for my own retirement.

At a national level the problem gets worse, this lot have begun to retire:

Wiki:


And if you're worried about our ability to pay for their upkeep then consider this: we'll be doing it without the contributions from what currently represents well over half of the personal income based tax take.

Next time someone offers you a bribe for your vote, ask what it'll cost your kids.

Yes indeed , only 2 or three % of the money in circulation is physical money , and applying the home owner , home budget , traditional way of thinking about finance , just doesnt work ,

in a nut shell , government prints money , and sells it to commertial banks at face value, = ten dollars - production cost = tax take of say 9.50 , this is what they used to build the welfare state back in the day
so if the tax take is simply not there ............you cant afford the welfare system

Next the banks take that ten dollars and loan it out ....but they "create the new loan " and charge interest , when the loan is repaid the original loan amount is destroyed and the interest you pay is kept ,

So to grow , ie NZ has a growth off 3% , you must increase the size of the debt by 3 %...( you see where Im going with this ,,,)

if you imagine the economy as a tin can with stones in side , rattling the can , moving the stones is economic activity ....to "grow " , you must add stones , exports , etc but those export were eventually created by someones debt.......( get back to work Africans and you lazy chinese)

So we have huge amounts of money , created from debt , including pensions all looking to speculate ....( ever wondered why the housing market is exempt from speculative regulation???? because banks can have their assets

So by using your house to grow your asset base is just making it harder for your children to get a house in the future ...... ( 1950 you needed one income, now its two)

Im not sure what pecentage of the tax take is invested in the pension , but I do know most modern countries are on the back foot ( Yubari here in japan has just anounced bankruptcy , 50 odd % pensioners and too much debt due to failed reforms ( IMF well done ) but it sure as hell aint covering the bill , ( I will look into this ) If the pensions were from private wealth , then we wouldnt be having this debate, but as most are state funded , and baby boomers have just peaked or are about to AND live longer , the tax, and investment take just isnt enough , thats why you hear governments crying ( I remember seeing the report back in 1994 ...)

Nope

The sooner we remove the speculative banks from essentials , and Jail a few bankers (aka) iceland , it will only get worse and these types of conversations will get more and more frequent which will lower the prices of the essentials such as housing and electricity,,,,,the better we all will be

Now lets get back to demonizing old people !!!!.......

Stephen

[ducatilover]

Yes indeed , only 2 or three % of the money in circulation is physical money , and applying the home owner , home budget , traditional way of thinking about finance , just doesnt work ,

in a nut shell , government prints money , and sells it to commertial banks at face value, = ten dollars - production cost = tax take of say 9.50 , this is what they used to build the welfare state back in the day
so if the tax take is simply not there ............you cant afford the welfare system

Next the banks take that ten dollars and loan it out ....but they "create the new loan " and charge interest , when the loan is repaid the original loan amount is destroyed and the interest you pay is kept ,

So to grow , ie NZ has a growth off 3% , you must increase the size of the debt by 3 %...( you see where Im going with this ,,,)

if you imagine the economy as a tin can with stones in side , rattling the can , moving the stones is economic activity ....to "grow " , you must add stones , exports , etc but those export were eventually created by someones debt.......( get back to work Africans and you lazy chineese)

So we have huge amounts of money , created from debt , including pensions all looking to speculate ....( ever wondered why the housing market is exempt from speculative regulation???? because banks can have their assets

So by using your house to grow your asset base is just making it harder for your children to get a house in the future ...... ( 1950 you needed one income, now its two)

Im not sure what pecentage of the tax take is invested in the pension , but I do know most modern countries are on the back foot ( Yubari here in japan has just anounced bankruptcy , 50 odd % pensioners and too much debt due to failed reforms ( IMF well done ) but it sure as hell aint covering the bill , ( I will look into this ) If the pensions were from private wealth , then we wouldnt be having this debate, but as most are state funded , and baby boomers have just peaked or are about to AND live longer , the tax, and investment take just isnt enough , thats why you hear governments crying ( I remember seeing the report back in 1994 ...)

Nope

The sooner we remove the speculative banks from essentials , and Jail a few bankers (aka) iceland , it will only get worse and these types of conversations will get more and more frequent which will lower the prices of the essentials such as housing and electricity,,,,,the better we all will be

Now lets get back to demonizing old people !!!!.......

Stephen

Wait, so money essentially just appears at the Govt. and bank's will? :shifty: How does the bank get the money to buy the new $10?

The "economy" is a heap of shit.

[Brian d marge]

Wait, so money essentially just appears at the Govt. and bank's will? :shifty: How does the bank get the money to buy the new $10?

The "economy" is a heap of shit.

not 100 % sure about what the government puts up , I think its debt , or bonds but basically yes the money "Just appears" and if you dont believe me Bankie moons first interview , he said exactly that , when asked where did the money come to cover the bailouts ,

Sorry but it is a load off dodo ( pun intended ) and we , the environment , and the water I drink mean jack sh!t to these people

Stephen

ps Ill try and find it later

[Akzle]

...in a nut shell , government prints money ,

...Next the banks take that ten dollars and loan it out .

...So we have huge amounts of money , created from debt

...Im not sure what pecentage of the tax take is invested in the pension
1) the government DOES NOT PRINT MONEY. that's done by a private corporation. (teh federal "reserve" ie)

2)no. the bank doesn't take 10$ and loan it out. if you want a loan from a bank you sign a bit of paper saying they'll give you 50$ now any you'll repay them, say 55$ next week (10% interest, ie)
the banks don't need capital to lend against. no shit. when you get a mortgage, your signature on the line creates the "currency", it IS NOT sitting "in the bank" waiting to be loaned out.

3)as indicated.

4) fuckall/ probably none


Wait, so money essentially just appears at the Govt. and bank's will? :shifty: How does the bank get the money to buy the new $10?
nevermind complicating your thinking with this. stick to what you know:


The "economy" is a heap of shit.

[short-circuit]

So if it's a good idea for the school system to go into the welfare food service and delivery industry, then I guess it would make sense for Work & Income to go into the rocketry business?




Why? School meals - proper meals, made in industrial cafeteria existed for decades in the U.K. It aint hard. It isn't that expensive and it was done for a reason.

[mashman]

Wait, so money essentially just appears at the Govt. and bank's will? :shifty: How does the bank get the money to buy the new $10?

The "economy" is a heap of shit.

Nice n easy (http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/where-does-money-come-from.html) and pitched at your level :innocent:

[ducatilover]

not 100 % sure about what the government puts up , I think its debt , or bonds but basically yes the money "Just appears" and if you dont believe me Bankie moons first interview , he said exactly that , when asked where did the money come to cover the bailouts ,

Sorry but it is a load off dodo ( pun intended ) and we , the environment , and the water I drink mean jack sh!t to these people

Stephen

ps Ill try and find it later
I always knew it was magic!





nevermind complicating your thinking with this. stick to what you know:
I'll stick to what I know as you say, buy m0ar bikez.

Nice n easy (http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/where-does-money-come-from.html) and pitched at your level :innocent:

But where do the bonds come from? :shutup:

[mashman]

But where do the bonds come from? :shutup:

The bond tree that's next to the money tree :weird:

[ducatilover]

The bond tree that's next to the money tree :weird:

Thanks, makes sense. Next question: can a duck chuck a woodchuck if a zebra gave birth?

[Brian d marge]

Why? School meals - proper meals, made in industrial cafeteria existed for decades in the U.K. It aint hard. It isn't that expensive and it was done for a reason.
actually important question about food in new zealand....

does anyone remember stevensons meat pies........

when did they start????

stephen

[JimO]

Why? School meals - proper meals, made in industrial cafeteria existed for decades in the U.K. It aint hard. It isn't that expensive and it was done for a reason.
how many schools do you think would have proper facilities for preparing, storing food, people preparing/serving would have to be trained in food safety councils would have to check and rate these kitchens same as the local fish n chip shop or restaurant all this shit costs $$$$ all to do something that the deadbeats are being paid to do in the first place

[short-circuit]

how many schools do you think would have proper facilities for preparing, storing food, people preparing/serving would have to be trained in food safety councils would have to check and rate these kitchens same as the local fish n chip shop or restaurant all this shit costs $$$$ all to do something that the deadbeats are being paid to do in the first place

It's called investment. Both social and educational. I can't think of a better way of spending "$$$$". Can you?

[Brian d marge]

school lunches ,,,,,,,,they were the worst crimes committed against humanity .....ever

stephen

[scumdog]

how many schools do you think would have proper facilities for preparing, storing food, people preparing/serving would have to be trained in food safety councils would have to check and rate these kitchens same as the local fish n chip shop or restaurant all this shit costs $$$$ all to do something that the deadbeats are being paid to do in the first place

I hear where you're coming from James:

"Your useless parents won't feed you so we will. And then let you go home to be looked after by your inept parent(s) until tomorrow morning".:shutup:

[mashman]

"Your useless parents won't feed you so we will. And then let you go home to be looked after by your inept parent(s) until tomorrow morning".:shutup:

and because of that, we'll financially penalise them so that they change their wicked ways and don't have enough money to feed you coz they won't be able to pay the electricity/gas bill because some fuckin idiots in a bee hive believe that they are doing the country a favour. In the words of my forefathers, jog on.

[Road kill]

I'm quite happy to see some of the tax I pay each year go toward feeding hungry kids.
It would be a better investment than yet another fleet of limo's for the poli's to polish their arses in.

Their dead beat parents are a totally different story and shouldn't enter into how kids are treated by society as a whole.

[short-circuit]

and because of that, we'll financially penalise them so that they change their wicked ways and don't have enough money to feed you coz they won't be able to pay the electricity/gas bill because some fuckin idiots in a bee hive believe that they are doing the country a favour. In the words of my forefathers, jog on.

Can't they see how fuckin retarded the logic is? Or do they just not give a fuck coz they like the sentiment?

[James Deuce]

Can't they see how fuckin retarded the logic is? Or do they just not give a fuck coz they like the sentiment?
The second bit. It's Marie Antoinette syndrome.

[short-circuit]

The second bit. It's Marie Antoinette syndrome.

That's generous. I say thick and callous

[Brian d marge]

The second bit. It's Marie Antoinette syndrome.

She was mis understood

The government is beholdent to the banks and to the IMF , which is america ,,, when u realise this it will all make sence

and no , they do give a rats arse about u ...because u dont make ,,,Money

Stephen

[short-circuit]

She was mis understood

The government is beholdent to the banks and to the IMF , which is america ,,, when u realise this it will all make sence

and no , they do give a rats arse about u ...because u dont make ,,,Money

Stephen

I'm talking about the sheeple not TPTB

[Brian d marge]

I'm talking about the sheeple not TPTB

sheepies , just make noises and follow popular opinion ,,, they are good for somethings feeding cannons for example

these guy run the show

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/uRM9qV4lkEg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

skip to 8.05 , Yes the fed , banks do just print money out of thin air

Stephen

[mashman]

Can't they see how fuckin retarded the logic is? Or do they just not give a fuck coz they like the sentiment?

:rofl:... they are here to be led. Fortunately someone is looking after their interests by fuckin with someone else's. Humanity v's profit. No contest.

[mashman]

skip to 8.05 , Yes the fed , banks do just print money out of thin air

Stephen

I threw up in my mouth a few times... the bullshit was just astounding. We can print money, but we can't stop poverty :killingme. Baaaaaaaaaaa. I loved his analogy about the guy in bed. We'd first put out the fire, the decide what punishment was appropriate, then change the fire code :rofl:... punished for an accident? and people wonder where austerity comes from? Punishment for borrowing money that the Fed print to lend to the banks in order to lend to us so that we get into debt. GENIUS!!!! All the time playing on the fear of those who believe that they have something to lose. Wonder if JK will put his nomination forwards for the WB, IMF or maybe the Fed?

[Brian d marge]

I threw up in my mouth a few times... the bullshit was just astounding. We can't print money, but we can't stop poverty :killingme. Baaaaaaaaaaa. I loved his analogy about the guy in bed. We'd first put out the fire, the decide what punishment was appropriate, then change the fire code :rofl:... punished for an accident? and people wonder where austerity comes from? Punishment for borrowing money that the Fed print to lend to the banks in order to lend to us so that we get into debt. GENIUS!!!! All the time playing on the fear of those who believe that they have something to lose. Wonder if JK will put his nomination forwards for the WB, IMF or maybe the Fed?

yup thats what I thought to

Stephen

or change the houses one simple change , remove speculation on houses , and bobs ur uncle ,,,

[mashman]

yup thats what I thought to

Stephen

or change the houses one simple change , remove speculation on houses , and bobs ur uncle ,,,

remove property speculation and leave it to those who can afford it ya mean? Nahhhh. If I'm gonna pay rent I may as well pay it towards my mortgage in the hope that some day I'll "own" my own home and not have to pay rent anymore. If you wanna make a change, get rid of the financial system that Berwanke seems so hell bent on protecting at the cost of the taxpayer. Then we'll see real progress. Otherwise some other bubble will go pop when we need to reshuffle the deck again. The only/main reason Fannie and Freddie were exposed, hmmm, is because "someone" turned off the money tap in order to lower interest rates. Same with the stock market all them years ago, oil before that etc... once the money flow is interrupted those who have "over stretched" will be the first on the block and will instantly take the blame for policy that is implemented by the money machine. I ain't no economist, but I see no other way to make the economy tank the way it did... and has done every 10 - 15 years. Think about it, $1 billion capitalisation = $9 billion in the real world. Cut that to $500 mill and what do you think the result will be? Less money to lend out, less money for big business to borrow, less money to pay wages, less money against the ever increasing cost of everything. It seems pretty straight forwards to me. Ditch the financial system and we won't need to suffer recessions etc... hell, we may well start using our resources sensibly instead of using them to pay off the loans that the central banks kindly magiced up for us. They use financial policy to control the flow of money :rofl: and then blame others for spending it :killingme... GENIUS!!!!

Anything other than binning the financial system is just fuckin around the edges.

[Brian d marge]

remove property speculation and leave it to those who can afford it ya mean? Nahhhh. If I'm gonna pay rent I may as well pay it towards my mortgage in the hope that some day I'll "own" my own home and not have to pay rent anymore. If you wanna make a change, get rid of the financial system that Berwanke seems so hell bent on protecting at the cost of the taxpayer. Then we'll see real progress. Otherwise some other bubble will go pop when we need to reshuffle the deck again. The only/main reason Fannie and Freddie were exposed, hmmm, is because "someone" turned off the money tap in order to lower interest rates. Same with the stock market all them years ago, oil before that etc... once the money flow is interrupted those who have "over stretched" will be the first on the block and will instantly take the blame for policy that is implemented by the money machine. I ain't no economist, but I see no other way to make the economy tank the way it did... and has done every 10 - 15 years. Think about it, $1 billion capitalisation = $9 billion in the real world. Cut that to $500 mill and what do you think the result will be? Less money to lend out, less money for big business to borrow, less money to pay wages, less money against the ever increasing cost of everything. It seems pretty straight forwards to me. Ditch the financial system and we won't need to suffer recessions etc... hell, we may well start using our resources sensibly instead of using them to pay off the loans that the central banks kindly magiced up for us. They use financial policy to control the flow of money :rofl: and then blame others for spending it :killingme... GENIUS!!!!

Anything other than binning the financial system is just fuckin around the edges.

No as in remove speculation entirely from property and land everything else good to go , and Jail bankers if they step out of line, ( actually I would reinstate the rules prior to 1968 ish )

Simple step , but wont happen , or it could if the government reintroduced , mixed state houses capped at a set value ( resale ) , and I mean mixed , as in ponsonby

Stephen

[st00ji]

its all just a result of human nature though isint it. thats like saying, if we all stop behaving like humans, the world will be sweet.

aint gonna happen.

best not to think about it too hard and try enjoy your miserable existence as best you can (i actually think akzle has approximately the right idea, strangely)

as for feeding the kids - there is no better place to improve society than with the young IMHO. their drop out parents are mostly beyond redemption already, but perhaps the next generation can be improved upon. like someone else said, cant choose your parents.

i actually think teachers should be paid double or triple what they currently get, with results expected. this would attract performers to the field, and hence create actual improvements in the education system.

[mashman]

No as in remove speculation entirely from property and land everything else good to go , and Jail bankers if they step out of line, ( actually I would reinstate the rules prior to 1968 ish )

Simple step , but wont happen , or it could if the government reintroduced , mixed state houses capped at a set value ( resale ) , and I mean mixed , as in ponsonby

Stephen

Ahhhh, I'm with ya now. Landlords would be up in arms... the banks'd likely be a tad pissed too as they'd have to write off mortgage debt. Given the array of shit that goes on these days I can't see turning the clock back to pre fiat money time making enough of a difference that it'd change how we live. Not saying that it wouldn't make things "better" if that could happen, but it'd only be a matter of time before we ended up right back where we are imho.

[mashman]

its all just a result of human nature though isint it.

What is? Our reaction to the situations we find ourselves in whether they are of our making or not?



best not to think about it too hard and try enjoy your miserable existence as best you can (i actually think akzle has approximately the right idea, strangely)

as for feeding the kids - there is no better place to improve society than with the young IMHO. their drop out parents are mostly beyond redemption already, but perhaps the next generation can be improved upon. like someone else said, cant choose your parents.

i actually think teachers should be paid double or triple what they currently get, with results expected. this would attract performers to the field, and hence create actual improvements in the education system.

:rofl:@ miserable existence... these soughts of things used to be water off a ducks back, someone else's problem. Turns out that I found a conscience and in return don't have the capacity that I used to have for sweeping social issues under the carpet and not thinking about other people, let alone ignoring that kids bear the brunt... disadvantaged by a system that rewards individuals according to some fucked up logic. If that makes me miserable, so be it.

Agreed with the rest.

[mashman]

Its funny mashy, usually you and I and Akzle are at ends as to who is right here. But I think when it comes to kids we hit a middle ground.
I do think we should help kids out. For one simple reason.
You can pick your nose but you can't pick your parents.

Food at schools is a good thing. Much better than money for smokes/piss/car loans.....etc.
Food at schools shows kids that their parents might be a bunch of fuckwits.

Now to prove I am still a non-loving arsehole...
"Ban the benefit! Feed the kids!"

heh... we'd probably hit a middle ground over most subjects given enough time to discuss them iykwim. I reckon JimO came up with a very workable solution, removing $20 from a parents benefit to get the kids fed at school.

[Brian d marge]

Ahhhh, I'm with ya now. Landlords would be up in arms... the banks'd likely be a tad pissed too as they'd have to write off mortgage debt. Given the array of shit that goes on these days I can't see turning the clock back to pre fiat money time making enough of a difference that it'd change how we live. Not saying that it wouldn't make things "better" if that could happen, but it'd only be a matter of time before we ended up right back where we are imho.

of course it wont happen , to many people think they arre living the dream ...and the banks , well they arent going to give up this little earner ...as far as the boys are concerned its all good, people under controll , money coming in sweeet........ dont you go rockin any boats or we will have to run a media campain to prove ur nuts

Stephen

[mashman]

of course it wont happen , to many people think they arre living the dream ...and the banks , well they arent going to give up this little earner ...as far as the boys are concerned its all good, people under controll , money coming in sweeet........ dont you go rockin any boats or we will have to run a media campain to prove ur nuts

Stephen

I can only hope that when the day comes, gawd I hope it's a when as the alternative doesn't bear thinking about (not that many would notice as ya say), when that day comes I'm alive to see it. It's all a conspiracy :facepalm: tis all part of the great train wreck that we know as existing, more commonly referred to as living. You gotta love that truism though eh... discredit the person and the world will disregard their ideas... after all, it's human nature :rofl:. What gives me hope, I know, why would anyone need to hope as this is the best it can get, is that there are lots and lots and lots of small groups out there that are looking into how they can make things "better". The downside being that the majority of these groups will never get their ideas implemented because they can't make it economically viable. I hope that someday they'll get together and realise that they're fighting the same "battle" and that they become a powerful voice. Til then I hope the bankers keep on truckin, the pollies keep on lying and those who hold the power keep on turning the screw. Throw in a natural disaster or two and who knows. The silent majority, nut bars that they are, will vote for something entirely different. I have a dream :). Yes I am quite possibly certifiable, but rather that than the alternative that I once was.

[slowpoke]

Gotta love all the dear heart George Dubya types who lash out first and try to think of a plan later.

I take it all those advocating reducing the benefit are also advocating a flat tax rate across the board? Or better still, going by the theory that reducing someone's finances increases their motivation we should tax the poor more than the rich. I mean, there's nothing stopping someone earning millions of dollars/year is there? Other people have done it so why should the rich subsidise the slackers who can't be arsed getting off their crappy $50k/yr salaries and earning some real coin?

Yup, lets jack up the tax rate for those on less than $50k, if that doesn't motivate them nothing will......lazy fuckers should think of their children before sitting around feeling happy as pigs in poo, how are they gonna put them through uni on that sort of bullshit money? Maybe we should start paying them in education vouchers to make sure the lazy bastards actually look after their kids instead of blowing it on golf club memberships and motorbikes.

Then there's superannuation......the fuckers will have their hands out 'til the day they bloody day, leaching the lifeblood out of thecountry, expecting those who're smart enough to actually put food on the table and a 'Benz in the garage to fork out again and a bloody again. Fuck'n losers, they shouldn't receive a cent until the earn more than $70k/yr, the rest they can have in food/education vouchers and super contributions. The mongrel's breed like rabbits too, so give 'em 10 years in the workforce and if they can't bring in $100k, sterilise 'em, no point having kids if they are already a drain on society.

Yep, I like your thinking people and admire your consistency. You are gonna be consistent aren't you.........?

[Brian d marge]

I can only hope that when the day comes, gawd I hope it's a when as the alternative doesn't bear thinking about (not that many would notice as ya say), when that day comes I'm alive to see it. It's all a conspiracy :facepalm: tis all part of the great train wreck that we know as existing, more commonly referred to as living. You gotta love that truism though eh... discredit the person and the world will disregard their ideas... after all, it's human nature :rofl:. What gives me hope, I know, why would anyone need to hope as this is the best it can get, is that there are lots and lots and lots of small groups out there that are looking into how they can make things "better". The downside being that the majority of these groups will never get their ideas implemented because they can't make it economically viable. I hope that someday they'll get together and realise that they're fighting the same "battle" and that they become a powerful voice. Til then I hope the bankers keep on truckin, the pollies keep on lying and those who hold the power keep on turning the screw. Throw in a natural disaster or two and who knows. The silent majority, nut bars that they are, will vote for something entirely different. I have a dream :). Yes I am quite possibly certifiable, but rather that than the alternative that I once was.

not many people know its the banks , just ask the average person where money comes from? 60 trillion dollars all looking for work , independent of government regulation ...scary ....the average whale has a shit show of a chance ......let alone the bee ....miles and miles of infertile corn fields yeeeehaaaa

[mashman]

not many people know its the banks , just ask the average person where money comes from? 60 trillion dollars all looking for work , independent of government regulation ...scary ....the average whale has a shit show of a chance ......let alone the bee ....miles and miles of infertile corn fields yeeeehaaaa

True, took me 38 years to finally ask the question as to how it all works. As long as there's lots of money, she'll be right :rofl:... oh, and monsanto to cover the dying fields. Everytime I learn of one of these monster organisations I'm always left concerned at how these entities can be allowed to practice what they do, unchallenged, and the manner in which they go about doing it. The best part of it? They are revered as being successful.

[scumdog]

True, took me 38 years to finally ask the question as to how it all works. As long as there's lots of money, she'll be right :rofl:... oh, and monsanto to cover the dying fields. Everytime I learn of one of these monster organisations I'm always left concerned at how these entities can be allowed to practice what they do, unchallenged, and the manner in which they go about doing it. The best part of it? They are revered as being successful.

Me? If I was unhappy with the way things are I would back you up.

But I enjoy Harleys, hot-rods & guns - and lots of $$$

At least I'll die happy...

[Brian d marge]

True, took me 38 years to finally ask the question as to how it all works. As long as there's lots of money, she'll be right :rofl:... oh, and monsanto to cover the dying fields. Everytime I learn of one of these monster organisations I'm always left concerned at how these entities can be allowed to practice what they do, unchallenged, and the manner in which they go about doing it. The best part of it? They are revered as being successful.
oh but they are , look how cheaply they can produce the meat to feed the starving children , the milk , the bread why dont we let these people run school canteens , they can feed many people very cheaply

Orange juice in vending machines , ( minite maid ) and they could be in every school , orange juice cant be bad for kids .....its got vitamin c just like Ribena !

what harm can providing orange juice and school lunches do to our kids ,,,,,its good right

Stephen

Monsanto , dontcha just luv em .......

[mashman]

Me? If I was unhappy with the way things are I would back you up.

But I enjoy Harleys, hot-rods & guns - and lots of $$$

At least I'll die happy...

Awwwwwww, that's nice. Is that in the context of the thread, where neglected kids need looking after by society, or just generally?

You could still enjoy those things. Would you swap the $$$ for more time to cruise in chaps, eat KFC spicy chicken & shoot stuff?

Me too.


oh but they are , look how cheaply they can produce the meat to feed the starving children , the milk , the bread why dont we let these people run school canteens , they can feed many people very cheaply

Orange juice in vending machines , ( minite maid ) and they could be in every school , orange juice cant be bad for kids .....its got vitamin c just like Ribena !

what harm can providing orange juice and school lunches do to our kids ,,,,,its good right

Stephen

Monsanto , dontcha just luv em .......

I guess the other stuff is just too expensive to allow such luxuries...

You woulda thought it'd be a good thing given that food is fuel for leaning minds... or so they keep saying. I guess the bad parents don't want their kids to learn nuffink.

[short-circuit]

Awwwwwww, that's nice. Is that in the context of the thread, where neglected kids need looking after by society, or just generally?


He's just a brainless pleb paid a pittance by the ruling class to protect their property rights. Ignore him...he thinks he's getting a good deal.

Besides, poverty leads to crime which keeps him in a "career"

[JimO]

He's just a brainless pleb paid a pittance by the ruling class to protect their property rights. Ignore him...he thinks he's getting a good deal.

Besides, poverty leads to crime which keeps him in a "career"
yea but your just a wanker

[mashman]

He's just a brainless pleb paid a pittance by the ruling class to protect their property rights. Ignore him...he thinks he's getting a good deal.

Besides, poverty leads to crime which keeps him in a "career"

heh heh heh... I think he's funny too :shifty: Every man has his price.

That's no bad thing really... coz, in the current system, if the doughnut industry collapses civilisation (savagery) as we know it, would descend into absolute chaos.

[short-circuit]

heh heh heh... I think he's funny too :shifty: Every man has his price.

That's no bad thing really... coz, in the current system, if the doughnut industry collapses civilisation (savagery) as we know it, would descend into absolute chaos.

Structural functionalism at it's best (worst).....fucking dinosaurs

[JimO]

Structural functionalism at it's best (worst).....fucking dinosaurs
tell us a little about yourself, your quick to slag off scummy, what do you do for a job?? how many children do you have ? do they go to school hungry??

[short-circuit]

tell us a little about yourself, your quick to slag off scummy, what do you do for a job?? how many children do you have ? do they go to school hungry??

Why so you can then fail/fall back on some sort of ad hominem attack?



Why don't you just mind you own fucking business. You have revealed the kind of ignornant scum (tm) you are a number of times through your racist comments - that's all the information about you I care to know.

Interesting that you feel the need to jump in on behalf of Cuntstable Scum - you obviously subscribe to my view that he hasn't got the brainpower to defend himself.

He expressed his I'm 'alright jack' attitude in a thread discussing the plight of society's most disempower (children in poverty) and got called on it....sooooo whassyerproblem?

[JimO]

Why so you can then fail/fall back on some sort of ad hominem attack?



Why don't you just mind you own fucking business. You have revealed the kind of ignornant scum (tm) you are a number of times through your racist comments - that's all the information about you I care to know.

Interesting that you feel the need to jump in on behalf of Cuntstable Scum - you obviously subscribe to my view that he hasn't got the brainpower to defend himself.

He expressed his I'm 'alright jack' attitude in a thread discussing the plight of society's most disempower (children in poverty) and got called on it....sooooo whassyerproblem?
how about you put your big boy pants on and answer the question, instead of throwing the racist tag out, scummy is entitled to his opinion same as you are same as i am and im sure he can defend himself if he feels the need to, i managed to feed my own children and im sure scumdog fed his kids as well, how about you???

[Akzle]

actually important question about food in new zealand....

does anyone remember stevensons meat pies........

when did they start????

stephen
no. but i do remember georgie pie. if ever there was a one dollar pie to be had when you're hungover as fuck, it was a steak and cheese at georgie pie.
i think we need to run McDs out of NZ (there goes half the obesity problem in south auckland (get rid of KFC and there goes the other half!) - and they're a US MNC - FTW!!) and bring back georgie pie.

how many schools do you think would have proper facilities for preparing, storing food, people preparing/serving would have to be trained in food safety councils would have to check and rate these kitchens same as the local fish n chip shop or restaurant all this shit costs $$$$ all to do something that the deadbeats are being paid to do in the first place
f*ck that shit. teach the little fuckers to lay a hangi then give em spades and put em to work.
all these soft "hygenic" BS rules.
many schools are putting in gardens... they're heading the right direction (but O LAWDY! i hope dey don' get dey hands dirtay like dem negroes!)


I'm quite happy to see some of the tax I pay each year go toward feeding hungry kids.
It would be a better investment than yet another fleet of limo's for the poli's to polish their arses in.

Their dead beat parents are a totally different story and shouldn't enter into how kids are treated by society as a whole.(sorry to disappoint, but they don't polish their own arses. they pay someone to do it. (with your taxation))

... fuck i'd love a 7 series BMW.


The second bit. It's Marie Antoinette syndrome.
yes. but what kind of cake?

...Jail bankers...
yes. problem #1 solved. next.


its all just a result of human nature though isint it. thats like saying, if we all stop behaving like humans, the world will be sweet.
...
i actually think teachers should be paid double or triple what they currently get, with results expected. this would attract performers to the field, and hence create actual improvements in the education system.
yes but we couldn't POSSIBLY pay the TEACHERS more... then we couldn't afford the police loans scheme. and of course enforcing policy (and propping them who do into houses, boats, cars etc) is way more important than educating the sheep (or paying paramedics, or fire/rescue services, apparently)
i think there is a spark of hope in human nature. but your society has come a LONG way from it.


...

I take it all those advocating reducing the benefit are also advocating a flat tax rate across the board? Or better still, going by the theory that reducing someone's finances increases their motivation we should tax the poor more than the rich. I mean, there's nothing stopping someone earning millions of dollars/year is there? Other people have done it so why should the rich subsidise the slackers who can't be arsed getting off their crappy $50k/yr salaries and earning some real coin?

Yup, lets jack up the tax rate for those on less than $50k, if that doesn't motivate them nothing will......lazy fuckers should think of their children before sitting around feeling happy as pigs in poo, how are they gonna put them through uni on that sort of bullshit money? Maybe we should start paying them in education vouchers to make sure the lazy bastards actually look after their kids instead of blowing it on golf club memberships and motorbikes.

Then there's superannuation......the fuckers will have their hands out 'til the day they bloody day, leaching the lifeblood out of thecountry, expecting those who're smart enough to actually put food on the table and a 'Benz in the garage to fork out again and a bloody again. Fuck'n losers, they shouldn't receive a cent until the earn more than $70k/yr, the rest they can have in food/education vouchers and super contributions. The mongrel's breed like rabbits too, so give 'em 10 years in the workforce and if they can't bring in $100k, sterilise 'em, no point having kids if they are already a drain on society....
have some comic sans.
i think most of that is beyond the scope of this thread.


just ask the average person where money comes from?women say the bank. men know they work to get it in the bank.

but it's all just numbers. a big maths game. like sudoku, but with more kids starving to death.

[Swoop]

Then there's superannuation......the fuckers will have their hands out 'til the day they bloody day
They have their hands out because the gubbinment has had their hand in the worker's wallet all of their working life. No choice in the matter either!

[scumdog]

They have their hands out because the gubbinment has had their hand in the worker's wallet all of their working life. No choice in the matter either!

Key word: worker.:pinch:

[oneofsix]

you lot are crapping on about the beneficeries taking all your hard earned tax dollars and yet you seem quite happy to hand them over to businesses. Lets take the money off the poor kids and give it to the owners of McDonalds stores etc. :2thumbsup

Sound far fetched and crazy?

Imagine a country where a kid lands a job before having to resort to accepting a payment from WINZ but to get the job the employer still requires them to register with WINZ. When taking the job the kid makes it clear that they intend that they want to advance their education. When it comes time to do something about it and they go to talk to the employer about reduced hours so they can have some income and time to study they are told the hours can't be reduced as the employer would loose their WINZ benefit. The employer needs the staff but wont employ them unless they get their share of your tax dollars. The scheme was meant to create employment not subsidize existing, wealthy businesses. That is NZ for you, enjoy it, the poor go hungry and the workers subsidize the wealthy. :drinkup: while you can still afford it and are allowed to.

:jerry:

[scumdog]

yet you seem quite happy to hand them over to businesses. Lets take the money off the poor kids and give it to the owners of McDonalds stores etc. :2thumbsup
:jerry:

Some of the poor kids give it to McDonalds willingly themselves...

[oneofsix]

Some of the poor kids give it to McDonalds willingly themselves...

At least they get a feed in return and that's why they get your tax dollar in the first place. :yes:

[scumdog]

At least they get a feed in return and that's why they get your tax dollar in the first place. :yes:

And they in turn got their $$$ from MY tax-dollar.;)

[mashman]

Some of the poor kids give it to McDonalds willingly themselves...

better than burning the house down whilst cooking unsupervised at home... I've seen adverts where adults can't handle such simple chores.

[Brian d marge]

And they in turn got their $$$ from MY tax-dollar.;)
you lot eat donuts from my $$$$$$$

stephen

[scissorhands]

Yeah and I pay $$$$ tax dollars to have my phone tapped and my emails read [uber boring nothingness anyways:yawn:]

[Brian d marge]

Yeah and I pay $$$$ tax dollars to have my phone tapped and my emails read [uber boring nothingness anyways:yawn:]

just get married...its done for free

stephen

[JimO]

Yeah and I pay $$$$ tax dollars to have my phone tapped and my emails read [uber boring nothingness anyways:yawn:]
i think your tinfoil hat is to tight mate

[oneofsix]

Yeah and I pay $$$$ tax dollars to have my phone tapped and my emails read [uber boring nothingness anyways:yawn:]

You do, taxes, and whilst you may think you e-mails are boring because you know what's in them, it is what "they" think is in them that makes them soooo interesting. :shifty:


Time for another roll of tinfoil, the last one just run out and the hats ripped. :lol:

[scissorhands]

You do, taxes, and whilst you may think you e-mails are boring because you know what's in them, it is what "they" think is in them that makes them soooo interesting. :shifty:


Time for another roll of tinfoil, the last one just run out and the hats ripped. :lol:

Its made me more reclusive and worsened my symptoms, having my communications thrown in my face afterwards.
Time to forget about technology helping 'us' methinks.....

I'm designing and building a titanium layered fabric hoodie, should be a big seller and a health product winner for wifi zones.... eg schools.

Kids can use them to sheild themselves from harmful radiation..... tax payers money at work fucking up children in schools:oi-grr:

[Edbear]

just get married...its done for free

stephen

LoL! And if you password your phone and computer they get very suspicious!

[mashman]

Further evidence of child poverty (http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/14932110/further-evidence-of-child-poverty/)... but it's ok, they're all drug taking useless parents who should just get a better job. I wonder how many of the parents have jobs too... most likely more than you would imagine.

[Brian d marge]

on the National radio the other day they were discussing electricity prices going up.....

:jerry:



:jerry: :jerry:

Stephen

go go IMF

[Matariki]

I wish there was more information in the article that the OP posted. But I agree, it’s not the government’s responsibility to feed children. It’s the parents responsibility and the school's responsibly (if the school has any concerns), if the schools are concerned, why don't they get in touch with a charity organization such as the salvation army, or red cross or the food bank? It wouldn't cost the country as much for those organizations to set up a humble soup kitchen using donations, than it would for the government to start up a campaign and enforce more regulations.

[James Deuce]

I wish there was more information in the article that the OP posted. But I agree, it’s not the government’s responsibility to feed children. It’s the parents responsibility and the school's responsibly (if the school has any concerns), if the schools are concerned, why don't they get in touch with a charity organization such as the salvation army, or red cross or the food bank? It wouldn't cost the country as much for those organizations to set up a humble soup kitchen using donations, than it would for the government to start up a campaign and enforce more regulations.
Proper nouns should be capitalised.

1. salvation army (sic): Conditional help based on recruiting a revenue stream. There is no other reason for their help. No other reason for the help given by any religious charity.
2. red cross (sic): Que? Not in NZ.
3. food bank (sic): which one, run by whom? Most of them struggle to keep their stocks of food to give away up, because the people with the disposable income to donate food have this set of beliefs (and it is faith based, they're not the kind of right-thinking people to let facts get in the way) where people who need food banks both deserve to be poor for being shit human beings and are responsible for providing their own food so I'm not giving any food to the food bank. If you watch who puts food in the food bank donation bins at the local Pak'n'Save you'll note that the majority of those donating it, don't look like they can really afford to.

As I keep telling people, when you are on the bones of your arse there is no help. You have to be an addict and beating your wife and kids before anyone notices and then it's generally the Police and Mental Health Services and your life is properly over and you're rendered state-dependent forever. When I needed help (twice) there was none. In the end we simply turned up on the doorstep of family (but not until we ran out of money) and made them pay attention. We got kicked in the guts twice in the space of 6 months and there was no charity agency willing to do anything because I was stupid enough to keep my job going and family went beyond being unsupportive and into the realms of physical and emotional abuse. We're out the other side, we paid our own way (and will keep paying until the day we die) and no one stepped up. So don't kid yourself that there is anything like State or Charity aid for average Kiwis in the crap, or that you poor taxpayers are carrying a huge burden because of malingering benefit bludgers. You're not. You're helping a growing percentage of Kiwis adjust to life with no frills. 98% of them get off benefits in 3 months.

A few people who I am proud to call "friend" went the extra mile and gave me somewhere to live when family started assaulting me, some people rang and rang and rang to make sure I was OK so I didn't do anything stupid, but the one thing that characterised this help was that they were neither from charities nor the Government. Don't kid yourself that Charities are there to help people and neither is the Government. Both groups, as diverse as they are, are interested only in pushing their own agenda, and for both this is maintaining their own financially oriented position in the world, often at the expense of people who actually ask them for help but don't get it.

[Brian d marge]

James, that not what people want to hear, it doesnt fit in with "their" reality...
whenI was young I yadada yadda
they fail to realised the world has changed ,I would say " fundamentally" in 1968,71 which is leading to a non egalitarian society(s)
this creates a social divide, with the resulant divorced communities
untill we realise that and stop pretending or reading stuff.co.nz......it will just get worse

stephen

sorry from phone sosorry about grammatics

[Matariki]

Proper nouns should be capitalised.

1. salvation army (sic): Conditional help based on recruiting a revenue stream. There is no other reason for their help. No other reason for the help given by any religious charity.
2. red cross (sic): Que? Not in NZ.
3. food bank (sic): which one, run by whom? Most of them struggle to keep their stocks of food to give away up, because the people with the disposable income to donate food have this set of beliefs (and it is faith based, they're not the kind of right-thinking people to let facts get in the way) where people who need food banks both deserve to be poor for being shit human beings and are responsible for providing their own food so I'm not giving any food to the food bank. If you watch who puts food in the food bank donation bins at the local Pak'n'Save you'll note that the majority of those donating it, don't look like they can really afford to.

As I keep telling people, when you are on the bones of your arse there is no help. You have to be an addict and beating your wife and kids before anyone notices and then it's generally the Police and Mental Health Services and your life is properly over and you're rendered state-dependent forever. When I needed help (twice) there was none. In the end we simply turned up on the doorstep of family (but not until we ran out of money) and made them pay attention. We got kicked in the guts twice in the space of 6 months and there was no charity agency willing to do anything because I was stupid enough to keep my job going and family went beyond being unsupportive and into the realms of physical and emotional abuse. We're out the other side, we paid our own way (and will keep paying until the day we die) and no one stepped up. So don't kid yourself that there is anything like State or Charity aid for average Kiwis in the crap, or that you poor taxpayers are carrying a huge burden because of malingering benefit bludgers. You're not. You're helping a growing percentage of Kiwis adjust to life with no frills. 98% of them get off benefits in 3 months.

A few people who I am proud to call "friend" went the extra mile and gave me somewhere to live when family started assaulting me, some people rang and rang and rang to make sure I was OK so I didn't do anything stupid, but the one thing that characterised this help was that they were neither from charities nor the Government. Don't kid yourself that Charities are there to help people and neither is the Government. Both groups, as diverse as they are, are interested only in pushing their own agenda, and for both this is maintaining their own financially oriented position in the world, often at the expense of people who actually ask them for help but don't get it.

This I can't argue with, and you're clearly talking from experience. I still think though that its not the government's moral responsibility to make sure that children are feed. Its the parents. As for the food bank, yes, you're right there also. I asked my parents about the food bank (as they used to donate to them), and they pretty much repeated what you said. For me it boils down these questions; "who should be picking up the slack?", and "what would be the best choice of action?" and "how much would it cost in both the short term and in the long run?"

One idea (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) would be for the government to offer a food subsidy (or lunch fund) for schools in poor areas that families (legal parents or guardians) could apply their children for (based on their level of income) through WINZ?

[scumdog]

I still think though that its not the government's moral responsibility to make sure that children are feed. Its the parents.

Many here think the government should keep well out of peoples lives.
Yet this thread shows a different light...it seems that some think they SHOULD interfere with how some the raise their kids..

[James Deuce]

This I can't argue with, and you're clearly talking from experience. I still think though that its not the government's moral responsibility to make sure that children are feed. Its the parents. As for the food bank, yes, you're right there also. I asked my parents about the food bank (as they used to donate to them), and they pretty much repeated what you said. For me it boils down these questions; "who should be picking up the slack?", and "what would be the best choice of action?" and "how much would it cost in both the short term and in the long run?"

One idea (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) would be for the government to offer a food subsidy (or lunch fund) for schools in poor areas that families (legal parents or guardians) could apply their children for (based on their level of income) through WINZ?

You're not thinking. At all. There's no longer any such thing as "poor areas". The vast majority of the Middle Class have slid into an income bracket that makes them the untouchables of the Western World.

In terms of your "subsidy" idea - what?

Income? What? I have a reasonable income. Doesn't matter when your net income is -$300pw.

When I say "Government" I mean society. Government is the instrument that ensures that society's values are maintained and projected equitably across society. To an extent. I don't expect that we tax Bob Jones at 98% or any other wealthy individual, but I do expect society to feed kids who aren't being fed, for whatever reason. It's not their fault their support systems have collapsed. Heaven help me if where we've got to is a society that is happy punishing children for their caregivers mistakes, misfortunes, and disasters. What a horrible place to live.

This isn't a thinly veiled "won't someone think of the children" rant. We've just done our best to help a kid whose support structures have collapsed, but we can't adopt him because we aren't evenly vaguely connected to his whanau. He's gone to live with his Great Aunt, who has diabetes and is in renal failure, and his Nan he was living with died of pneumonia a month ago. He behaves badly, he's been labelled with ADHD, but he is really just a kid who wants someone to tell him what's what. But society would rather chuck him on the scrapheap because of his race and "issues". He has no issues I couldn't sort out or adapt to inside 3 months. He's also the one kid in a classroom of kids who sticks up for my middle son who is a chronic asthamtic and has an unidentified neurological condition that stops him from walking and talking periodically. That kid we can't adopt has a better sense of right and wrong than a John Key-led Society.

Heaven help you New Zealand, Heaven help you.

[mashman]

Many here think the government should keep well out of peoples lives.
Yet this thread shows a different light...it seems that some think they SHOULD interfere with how some the raise their kids..

nahhh, many here think that the govt should keep well out of peoples lives as long as they're doing something to help themselves... just like that fat cow thinks - Too many kids are struggling - Bennett (http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/14932896/too-many-kids-are-struggling-bennett/)

"Paula Bennett admits she's grappled with some of the new rules being imposed on beneficiaries.

The Social Development Minister is bringing in regulations which will see parents penalised financially, if their children don't attend early education.

She's told TVNZ's Q&A programme the plans conflict with her previous position - that governments shouldn't interfere with people's lives.
"I see too many kids that are struggling and not getting ahead in life ... I see it happening generation after generation and I want to make a difference and I have an opportunity to do that and I'm taking it.""

Do as you're told or we'll make life even harder for ya. To a degree I think they should get directly involved, but more along the lines of changing the environment i.e. a couple of months in a remote place (maybe the Chathams) but with fuck all but food, water and a roof over their heads (perhaps a ball and some books). That sort of shit costs way too much money though :blink:. Much cheaper to tighten the money screw and then say it's their own fault if they do not comply. She'll make a difference alright... along the lines of parents being dropped in gaol coz their kids are truant or coz their kids received a smacked arse... doesn't want to interfere my fat fuckin hairy white arse. People here probably think it'll stop at beneficiaries and that it only happens because it's only the bad parents who get "caught" :facepalm: It'll keep you in a job if nothing else.

[Matariki]

You're not thinking. At all. There's no longer any such thing as "poor areas". The vast majority of the Middle Class have slid into an income bracket that makes them the untouchables of the Western World.

Economy isn't my strong point, far from it. Let me try and clarify (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) By poor areas, I meant suburbs consisting of families or individuals who receive a low income.



In terms of your "subsidy" idea - what?

I'll try and rephrase it (I do have dyslexia, so please try to bear with me)

Could the government subsidize schools (if they're not doing so) for the cost of food and provide free lunches for those who come from low income households?



Income? What? I have a reasonable income. Doesn't matter when your net income is -$300pw.

I'm not sure If I'm reading this correctly; do you mean negative $300 or $300 per week? and in what context? $300pw would be fine for an adult who's flatting and sharing the rent or who is paying board, but $300pw would be scraping the barrel if that's all you got to support you and a couple of a kids.



When I say "Government" I mean society. Government is the instrument that ensures that society's values are maintained and projected equitably across society. To an extent. I don't expect that we tax Bob Jones at 98% or any other wealthy individual, but I do expect society to feed kids who aren't being fed, for whatever reason. It's not their fault their support systems have collapsed. Heaven help me if where we've got to is a society that is happy punishing children for their caregivers mistakes, misfortunes, and disasters. What a horrible place to live.

Oh, ok, I thought by government you meant those in parliament. In an ideal world (which we don't live in) parents should be providing the basics for their children, but in reality sometimes parents can't. And I agree, why should the kids have to suffer? I'm not against tax, and its in these situations that tax money should be utilized. But the concern I have is; if a system were to be established to feed hungry kids How would it be regulated? Who would qualify? And could such a program be susceptible to fraud?



This isn't a thinly veiled "won't someone think of the children" rant. We've just done our best to help a kid whose support structures have collapsed, but we can't adopt him because we aren't evenly vaguely connected to his whanau. He's gone to live with his Great Aunt, who has diabetes and is in renal failure, and his Nan he was living with died of pneumonia a month ago. He behaves badly, he's been labelled with ADHD, but he is really just a kid who wants someone to tell him what's what. But society would rather chuck him on the scrapheap because of his race and "issues". He has no issues I couldn't sort out or adapt to inside 3 months. He's also the one kid in a classroom of kids who sticks up for my middle son who is a chronic asthamtic and has an unidentified neurological condition that stops him from walking and talking periodically. That kid we can't adopt has a better sense of right and wrong than a John Key-led Society.

Heaven help you New Zealand, Heaven help you.

Poor kid :(
I don't know the system very well for childcare (CPS or Foster care etc.), but you've probably have looked at everything I imagine. Good on for the little guy though for sticking up for your son. The world is a shit place at times. It reminds me a little bit of when I often had to stand up for my younger brother who has low functioning autism, I used to get beaten up and bullied by both students and teachers alike. Do you spend much time with the kid? Often when I was feeling down as a result of the stuff that was going on at school (failing grades, family turmoil etc.), I would hang out with my uncle; go the the playground or something and eat ice cream. It didn't solve anything, but it least it made my childhood more bearable.

[James Deuce]

-$300/pw = negative income, losing $300 per week. I'm talking about my situation, not what I expect beneficiaries to earn and if you think a family can exist on $300pw you're very, very mistaken.

If the Government did subsidise schools to feed kids, who pays for the schools to develop the infrastructure to feed the kids? You need kitchens, dining areas, dinner "ladies" and so on. The cost isn't just the food, it's production, logistics and personnel costs, as well as administrative overheads. NZ Schools don't typically have anything more than a tuck shop type arrangement or an arrangement with a local cafe or fast food franchise to to provide a once a week lunch order that gets maybe a 10-20% take up from the school kids.

[Matariki]

-$300/pw = negative income, losing $300 per week. I'm talking about my situation, not what I expect beneficiaries to earn and if you think a family can exist on $300pw you're very, very mistaken.

Thank you for clarifying, I'm sorry to hear that you're losing money on a weekly basis.



If the Government did subsidise schools to feed kids, who pays for the schools to develop the infrastructure to feed the kids? You need kitchens, dining areas, dinner "ladies" and so on. The cost isn't just the food, it's production, logistics and personnel costs, as well as administrative overheads. NZ Schools don't typically have anything more than a tuck shop type arrangement or an arrangement with a local cafe or fast food franchise to to provide a once a week lunch order that gets maybe a 10-20% take up from the school kids.

Good points. The schools in that case might have to get involved with a company or companies that make basic ready meals which could be bought to the schools and then distributed amongst the kids who qualify for the meal. The problem though is making the right sort of food that doesn't involve ACC throwing a hissy fit (noodles and soup would probably be out of the question). I'm not sure exactly what the Green Party had in mind in their proposal, but I'll quote what the article says;


Labour leader David Shearer gave his first major policy speech on Sunday, announcing that if it became the government, his party would partner with community and voluntary organisations to provide free food to each of the country's 650 decile 1-3 primary and intermediate schools, with a total of 119,135 pupils.

"I hear people argue that this is the responsibility of parents. We can debate that endlessly but it won't change this reality: tomorrow morning kids will still turn up to school hungry," he said.

[Ocean1]

If the Government did subsidise schools to feed kids, who pays for the schools to develop the infrastructure to feed the kids? You need kitchens, dining areas, dinner "ladies" and so on. The cost isn't just the food, it's production, logistics and personnel costs, as well as administrative overheads.

Yeah, it's not a great idea. Although schools have been doing exactly that unofficially for years, Naenae, for one. What changes when it becomes recognised, funded policy? Stringent standards have to be met, to start with, and there's the growth of all the parasitic secondary service suppliers... And that's the thing, what works in a village, face to face, don't work on a national, industrial scale.

I guess most people have the expectation that within any familly before anything else is spent at all: the kids get fed. If that's not happening a village would know, and know why. Maybe that's what we're seeing here, the failure of national policy to provide what has only ever been managed well at a tribal level.

Or is it a failure? I'm not real familliar with the rules, but I'd like to think that anyone who's failing to meet their life's costs but who's kids are getting fed might have a better claim to further help than the ones who's kids turn up to school hungry. And maybe, if the rules were really shaped to help the kids you'd have a better chance at adopting your boys schoolmate. And if the rules aren't shaped that way then how can a government, as in "not a village" and "not a society" make them that way?

[James Deuce]

Thank you for clarifying, I'm sorry to hear that you're losing money on a weekly basis.

Not now - back then when we were in the crap.

[Akzle]

i heard an interesting thing on some radio the other day about "baby boomer" gereration politiicians, who are scared shitless of the next generation: their forbears made them a nice cushy welfare and help-you-into-a-house-and-live-well kind of government, they got through it, got to the top of the property/political/financial ladder (on the backs of their forbear's taxes) and now they're chopping that shit left right and centre, and raising taxation, fairly well across the board, to pay for a) their wages and b) what meagre service they provide, and all the while turning things to user-pays.

what i still find highly fucken annoying is that SAR, fire service, and parameds (y'know, people that HELP people) are 0% government funded. while their gangland enforcers (police) are 100% government funded. :mad:


-$300/pw = negative income, losing $300 per week. I'm talking about my situation, not what I expect beneficiaries to earn and if you think a family can exist on $300pw you're very, very mistaken.
that'd depend on the size of the family and what they expect. i agree it's ceratinly hard to make ends meet if you're not rolling in cash., leta lone have any loose ends or savings.

i've been in a position several times (thanks, women) where i've lost pretty much everything i had (savings, vehicles, guns - the important stuff.) it's actually quite refreshing. one day i realised that i actually didn't need much of it, so now i live without.
i think to date this year i have spent 3000$ more than i've "earned" (according to IRD)

[SPman]

98% of them get off benefits in 3 months. A fact most people don't want to believe, because it doesn't fit in with the scenario presented by the media and government........

[Akzle]

A fact most people don't want to believe, because it doesn't fit in with the scenario presented by the media and government........
and one that i believe will be rapidly changing for the better, especially with key's election promise of, what, 400 000 (four hundred thousand, say it..) jobs.

o.
wait on.

[James Deuce]

Between Solid Energy and Railways we shed the better part of a thousand jobs today. Don't forget to abuse the people now jobless for being bludgers, stand them down from benefits for 18 weeks and make sure the baleful eye of Paula Benefit cuts their benefit the moment one of their kids skips breakfast.

[Madness]

And it's only monday.

[Kickaha]

http://youtu.be/L8zhNb8ANe8

[mashman]

No money eh John? Here's where the kids money is going (http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/14998585/tv-recycling-to-be-subsidised/)... whilst a noble scheme I'm sure, I'd rather kids were fed etc...

[JimO]

No money eh John? Here's where the kids money is going (http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/14998585/tv-recycling-to-be-subsidised/)... whilst a noble scheme I'm sure, I'd rather kids were fed etc...
the kids money is going to the parents already

[Ocean1]

No money eh John? Here's where the kids money is going (http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/14998585/tv-recycling-to-be-subsidised/)... whilst a noble scheme I'm sure, I'd rather kids were fed etc...

Fuck you talk shite.

Those parents that didn't already have it have been given it, ask them where it went.

[mashman]

the kids money is going to the parents already


Fuck you talk shite.

Those parents that didn't already have it have been given it, ask them where it went.

:facepalm: fuckin idiots. You kinda miss the point doncha? They aren't getting fed properly. There's no money available apparently, yet we can subsidise some private enterprise to recycle some fuckin telly's. As I opened with. Fuckin idiots.

[Ocean1]

:facepalm: fuckin idiots. You kinda miss the point doncha? They aren't getting fed properly. There's no money available apparently, yet we can subsidise some private enterprise to recycle some fuckin telly's. As I opened with. Fuckin idiots.

Nope. The point is the kids parents either supply the kids with food or the taxpayer does. If the food money wasn't used for the intended purpose the first, (and second) time what the fuck makes you think it would the next time. Not learning, that's a fuckin idiot.

[mashman]

Nope. The point is the kids parents either supply the kids with food or the taxpayer does. If the food money wasn't used for the intended purpose the first, (and second) time what the fuck makes you think it would the next time. Not learning, that's a fuckin idiot.

I agree... and you ain't learning. Yes the parents are fuckin hopeless in so many respects it's criminal. So the tax payer needs to foot the bill to feed them. The money has to come from somewhere. Screw the telly recycling and put that budget towards gettin these kids fed. As you highlight, don't give it to the parents... give it directly to the school or whoever will provide the "service", along with Jim's suggestion earlier in the thread to remove 20 bucks from the bene for that purpose.

[Ocean1]

I agree... and you ain't learning. Yes the parents are fuckin hopeless in so many respects it's criminal. So the tax payer needs to foot the bill to feed them. The money has to come from somewhere. Screw the telly recycling and put that budget towards gettin these kids fed. As you highlight, don't give it to the parents... give it directly to the school or whoever will provide the "service", along with Jim's suggestion earlier in the thread to remove 20 bucks from the bene for that purpose.

Listen, numbnuts: any adult that fails to spend the first money they earn, (or otherwise gain) on feeding their kids isn't a parent. If you want to fix the problem take the kids and give them to a real parent, there's enough of them waiting.

[mashman]

Listen, numbnuts: any adult that fails to spend the first money they earn, (or otherwise gain) on feeding their kids isn't a parent. If you want to fix the problem take the kids and give them to a real parent, there's enough of them waiting.

Brilliant. You mean let's just leave the system as it is and accept that there will be some kids that slide through the cracks? Or did you muffle something else from that bucket of sand that your heads in? I have no real disagreement with what you are suggesting, but it doesn't feed the kids.

[Ocean1]

Brilliant. You mean let's just leave the system as it is and accept that there will be some kids that slide through the cracks? Or did you muffle something else from that bucket of sand that your heads in? I have no real disagreement with what you are suggesting, but it doesn't feed the kids.

What part of "take the kids and give them to real parents who'll feed them" is leaving the systyem as it is? And in what way is that failing to deal with the problem, dickhead?

[mashman]

What part of "take the kids and give them to real parents who'll feed them" is leaving the systyem as it is? And in what way is that failing to deal with the problem, dickhead?

That's what usually happens when parents are found to be neglecting their children isn't it? they're removed from the household and placed elsewhere? As highlighted by someone earlier in the thread, these kids may well be happy with their parents and won't want them to get into any trouble by taking food from those who believe them to be hungry. There is more than one scenario, fart face. The catch all. Feed them at school.

[Ocean1]

That's what usually happens when parents are found to be neglecting their children isn't it? they're removed from the household and placed elsewhere?

No, it's not. In fact it very rarely happens, and if you talked to any sort of social worker you'd know that current policies are in fact the exact opposite: leave them with their parents, at almost any cost.

Go learn some shit before you poke fingers at anyone else.

[mashman]

No, it's not. In fact it very rarely happens, and if you talked to any sort of social worker you'd know that current policies are in fact the exact opposite: leave them with their parents, at almost any cost.

Go learn some shit before you poke fingers at anyone else.

So it doesn't happen then? the "threat" isn't issued? especially where the younger kids are concerned? I'm more than aware that there are reasons, some legal, mainly logistical and to that extent very much financial, why the policy is the policy. I'm also aware that the social workers take on a 24/7 job, put themselves in some risky situations, have more than enough clients than they have time (a situation they abhor) etc... I'm don't know every minute detail, but I do understand some of the reasons why some kids aren't removed from the household and how the "judgements" are made... you making out that I "know" otherwise is comical and futile.

I know enough to know that kids aren't being fed and it's well within the power of the govt to change that, so I'll poke my fingers at whomever I want. Still doesn't help the kids get fed though eh.

[scumdog]

I agree... and you ain't learning. Yes the parents are fuckin hopeless in so many respects it's criminal. So the tax payer needs to foot the bill to feed them.

The tax-payer is already paying to have the kids fed.

As you say, take $20 a week off them for each kid and give it to the school to feed them.


(How come fuckwitted irresponsible lazy parents are such excellent breeders???.)

[Akzle]

i just happened to know of a case of a "family" with 6 kids, 5 cats and a half dozen dogs, all were removed from the "parents" (only after a two year legal fuckaround, as the system is wont to do, just so the lawyers get their slice of the profit of society's suffering.)


if we all stop behaving like humans, the world will be sweet.

you win at life!

[mashman]

The tax-payer is already paying to have the kids fed.

As you say, take $20 a week off them for each kid and give it to the school to feed them.

(How come fuckwitted irresponsible lazy parents are such excellent breeders???.)

That's what I was saying. Time to pay a little it more into something that'll have an affect... like reallocating the TV recycling money and 20 bucks (JimO's idea) and get the fuckin shop on the road. It turns out that kids and their welfare is but a blip in any govt policy. It's interesting to see the left getting a beating for suggesting that the kids get looked after... nay let me rephrase that more honestly. It highlights the moronic way people think when such policy's are written off as nothing more than a political party trying to score points with their traditional voter base... and then defend the right when they do the exact same thing.

Coz they can't afford to run motorcyles?

[ducatilover]

leave them with their parents, at almost any cost.


This is actually quite accurate, sad to say. I'm not sure if it's fear of media, laziness/ not giving a fuck or purely economic motivated poor performance, but it's a huge issue.
There are far too many useless parents out there and there's absolutely no reason why kids need to suffer for it
If a support center was started relatively local to me purely to feed/support kids, I'd happily volunteer

[Ocean1]

leave them with their parents, at almost any cost.


This is actually quite accurate, sad to say. I'm not sure if it's fear of media, laziness/ not giving a fuck or purely economic motivated poor performance, but it's a huge issue.

Too little, too late: http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/7764932/CYF-link-in-girls-death

Again.

[ducatilover]

Too little, too late: http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/7764932/CYF-link-in-girls-death

Again.
Just saw that a few minutes ago, absolutely horrible. :shutup::no: