Full gear all the time?

[McFatty1000]

Who out there wears their full gear every time they get on the bike? Proper rides are different and no brainers but things like running down to the shops? And yes, I'm aware that its your own body on the line so the decision is yours at the end of the day..

[Sable]

Jacket, gloves, helmet, jeans, boots. Only bother with pants on out of town trips.

[ducatilover]

I wear full gear 99% of the time, I do occasionally stroll up the road in jacket/jeans on the 250/300/failure. Always wear full gear on the 600 though (but the majority of my riding is country roads, I barely ever go to towns except for petrol/coffee)
For the record, I've come a cropper at 160k in jacket/jeans once. It hurt.

[Maha]

Saturday morning, I was at my bike gearing up, back protector/knee sliders attached/elbow armour back in/radar detector on and at the ready, iPod set and plugs in/dark visor changed to clear..
Anne asked '' where ya going''?
''To get some milk......why''?

[hayd3n]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVQF4tzMQSA

[caseye]

Notice she didn't ask what you were doing! She already knew that though aye.
OP You said it, it;s your life but for me every trip is a gear on one these days, the only times I've not done so, something bad has happened.
New gear, easy, new arms, leg,s or heads, ah not so easy aye.

[willytheekid]

Saturday morning, I was at my bike gearing up, back protector/knee sliders attached/elbow armour back in/radar detector on and at the ready, iPod set and plugs in/dark visor changed to clear..
Anne asked '' where ya going''?
''To get some milk......why''?

:laugh: +1 :niceone:

ATGATT = All The Gear ALL THE TIME

Ride safe KBers

[BoristheBiter]

On either dirt or road its ATGATT for me.

I have have had the unfortunate pleasure of gravel rash, I would hate to know what it's like from coming off a bike.

[oneofsix]

On either dirt or road its ATGATT for me.

I have have had the unfortunate pleasure of gravel rash, I would hate to know what it's like from coming off a bike.

Depends what you mean by gravel rash. ATGATT wont always protect you from bruises, scratches and abrasions or even burns. Will make it a lot less. Generally I am in favour of ATGATT but lately I have wondered if we take it too far. Shorts, t-shirt and jandals is just plain stupid but with some CBDs now have 30k speed limits, and we all stick to the speed limit :yes: how much more does ATGATT protect you over a strong pair of jeans, a strong jacket and a helmet at 30 - 50k?

Should have quoted Maha's milk run as it is that post I am thinking about whilst asking the above, see below.


Saturday morning, I was at my bike gearing up, back protector/knee sliders attached/elbow armour back in/radar detector on and at the ready, iPod set and plugs in/dark visor changed to clear..
Anne asked '' where ya going''?
''To get some milk......why''?

[whowhatwhere]

All gear always.

If you can't be fucked putting all the gear on at the time then you're not in the right head-space to be going for a ride.

Jeans do not count.

But hey, I'm going to worry about me - do what you like.

[PeloNZ]

It's funny, I do most of my urban travelling on my pushbike. Generally in shirt and shorts, or jacket and jeans if its chilly. On the way to work I regularly hit 60 kph on my road bike, downhill. The only protective gear I have is my polystyrene hat, gloves and sunglasses.
Despite the lack of mirrors, lights, powerful brakes, and reduced ability to keep up with traffic, I feel I can ride more defensively on my bicycle than the moto. The agility of a bicycle is unmatched.

When I am mountain biking, I generally wear t-shirt and shorts. If the tracks are more down than up, I will throw on knee, elbow and wrist guards - no fullface helmet though.

But riding to work on my motorcycle, I gear up fully. Being a noob, it makes sense - I am far more confident controlling my pushbike than my motorcycle. With a motor, there is always the potential to accelerate to an unsafe speed. Plus a motorcycle falling on top of me will hurt far more than the pedallie.

Maybe when summer moto commuting, I will wear less gear. At highway speeds, there is no question.

I guess ATGATT is an attitude thing. "Motorcycles are dangerous" is generally considered true. "Bicycles are dangerous", not so much.

[bogan]

If you can't be fucked putting all the gear on at the time then you're not in the right head-space to be going for a ride.

What the fuck has putting on gear got to do with your head-space. Your head-space affects how you ride, being confident enough of your safe riding style not to bother with full gear suggests either stupid invulnerability or confidence in ones ability. I'd hope for most of us not crashing in the first place is far more important than mitigating damage if you do (not that they are exclusive of course). What we ride in, and what we ride are far less important than how we ride.
Gear isn't magic dude, it provides a level of protection relative to impact speed/direction, and slide distance/surface. I wouldn't be surprised if jeans at 50k offers the same practical level of protection that riding pants at 100k does.

[bogan]

The agility of a bicycle is unmatched.

:killingme Yeh you often see those tour de france guys not falling over, and in the unlikely event one does, they never take out those really agile guys following behind :bleh:

Lighter may make it feel more agile, but in reality you have about 50 square mm of hard rubber connecting you to the road, and can neither stop or turn harder than a real bike. Perhaps do some rider training to ensure you are using your real bike properly.

[SMOKEU]

It's funny, I do most of my urban travelling on my pushbike. Generally in shirt and shorts, or jacket and jeans if its chilly. On the way to work I regularly hit 60 kph on my road bike, downhill. The only protective gear I have is my polystyrene hat, gloves and sunglasses.
Despite the lack of mirrors, lights, powerful brakes, and reduced ability to keep up with traffic, I feel I can ride more defensively on my bicycle than the moto. The agility of a bicycle is unmatched.



On a motorbike you normally have better wheels, tyres, brakes, suspension and chassis than a push bike, which makes a motorbike much safer at a given speed than a push bike. That of course depends on the motorbike as well, as an extra long wheelbase chopper won't handle as well as something much smaller and ligher.

[jellywrestler]

Who out there wears their full gear every time they get on the bike? Proper rides are different and no brainers but things like running down to the shops? And yes, I'm aware that its your own body on the line so the decision is yours at the end of the day..

yeah you're totally right as chicks dig scars

[BoristheBiter]

Depends what you mean by gravel rash. ATGATT wont always protect you from bruises, scratches and abrasions or even burns. Will make it a lot less. Generally I am in favour of ATGATT but lately I have wondered if we take it too far. Shorts, t-shirt and jandals is just plain stupid but with some CBDs now have 30k speed limits, and we all stick to the speed limit :yes: how much more does ATGATT protect you over a strong pair of jeans, a strong jacket and a helmet at 30 - 50k?

Should have quoted Maha's milk run as it is that post I am thinking about whilst asking the above, see below.

The sliding down a dirt track with only shorts and t-shirt on after falling off push bike and spending a few hours in hospital picking stones out of legs and arms type of gravel rash.

As has been stated I will protect myself, if you don't want to wear it no skin off my arse (pun intended).

[oneofsix]

What the fuck has putting on gear got to do with your head-space. Your head-space affects how you ride, being confident enough of your safe riding style not to bother with full gear suggests either stupid invulnerability or confidence in ones ability. I'd hope for most of us not crashing in the first place is far more important than mitigating damage if you do (not that they are exclusive of course). What we ride in, and what we ride are far less important than how we ride.
Gear isn't magic dude, it provides a level of protection relative to impact speed/direction, and slide distance/surface. I wouldn't be surprised if jeans at 50k offers the same practical level of protection that riding pants at 100k does.

That was kind of my point. If jeans at 50k do provide sufficient protection then is it counter productive to harp on about ATGATT all the time or have we taken the meaning of ATGATT to far. All the Gear for off road is different to all the gear for the track, and road etc. so for popping down the shop in a 50k area is all the gear helmet, cloves, jacket, jeans and boots or sturdy footwear?
You can go over urban speed on the pedally or scoot and yet, whilst many here will not accept it, the level of gear they wear is acceptable to the authorities and the general public.

[sootie]

The whole business of what gear to wear has to be up to the rider's own assessment of risk, and before anyone asks, yes, I have been smashed up on a bike, fortunately while well protected.

I do not walk around town carrying a large lightning rod, even though I know a significant number of earthlings are killed each year by lightning strike! I walk acroos pedestrian crossings without protection (bloody dangerous near where I live!) I don't wear a crash helmet when I drive the cage either!

I do try to drive/ride with full awareness & care at all times. I make an assessment about what level of protection is sensible for the duration and nature of each two wheeled trip, and that is how I dress. I probably get it a bit wrong some times but I am still not going to carry a lightning rod or grossly over dress every time I ride.
Life is about risk management.

By the way, I also ride a pushbike, and in traffic I think that is more dangerous than a small nimble motorcycle.
I hate having no view of the vehicle behind me, while I am being continuously overtaken!
(Any good motorcyclist should be aware that a bike over 250kgs is not so nimble & ride accordingly.)

[BoristheBiter]

That was kind of my point. If jeans at 50k do provide sufficient protection then is it counter productive to harp on about ATGATT all the time or have we taken the meaning of ATGATT to far. All the Gear for off road is different to all the gear for the track, and road etc. so for popping down the shop in a 50k area is all the gear helmet, cloves, jacket, jeans and boots or sturdy footwear?
You can go over urban speed on the pedally or scoot and yet, whilst many here will not accept it, the level of gear they wear is acceptable to the authorities and the general public.

But then depending on what you are on depends on what gear you're wearing.
I would never think of wearing my leathers while riding my dirt bike and vice-versa. Mind you if I was doing 200+ through Woodhill my current gear might seem a bit lacking.

No I don't think we have taken it too far, just some push it more than others. A bit like this hi-vis debate.

[bogan]

That was kind of my point. If jeans at 50k do provide sufficient protection then is it counter productive to harp on about ATGATT all the time or have we taken the meaning of ATGATT to far.

As long as riders realise gear is for damage control, and riding style is for avoiding damage altogether, I think its all good. The only downside to wearing gear is time taken to put it on (assuming you don't wear ill fitting gear), so you can't overdo the gear itself as long as it doesn't affect the other aspects of a ride.

For example, I just went to the shops and had a light change green which I could have blitzed through at 50k, however since the other cars were all looking pretty slow and it had just gone green I slowed down and checked both ways. After doing so, I wondered if some of the ATGATT crowd would have just gone through because they had right of way, and would be less concerned about the small chance of an off cos of their gear.

[oneofsix]

But then depending on what you are on depends on what gear you're wearing.
I would never think of wearing my leathers while riding my dirt bike and vice-versa. Mind you if I was doing 200+ through Woodhill my current gear might seem a bit lacking.

No I don't think we have taken it too far, just some push it more than others. A bit like this hi-vis debate.

Most that mention it push the all as absolute and a lot of the rest of us just nod our heads because we agree with them as a generalisation.
As for hi-vis it appears bikers aren't the only ones with that problem by this morning's Herald (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10833410). Same blind believe that hi-vis can be seen any where any time but in this case I would suggest it does actually sometimes help the wearer get spotted as they aren't in the open like bikers.

[LankyBastard]

I've came off recently at only around 30 kph, and I tell you, even at that slow speed, my legs would have been right fucked had i not been wearing proper pants. The pants were properly ripped up. That really makes you wear all the gear every time!

I then learned a similar lesson off road.....:facepalm:

[BoristheBiter]

Most that mention it push the all as absolute and a lot of the rest of us just nod our heads because we agree with them as a generalisation.
As for hi-vis it appears bikers aren't the only ones with that problem by this morning's Herald (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10833410). Same blind believe that hi-vis can be seen any where any time but in this case I would suggest it does actually sometimes help the wearer get spotted as they aren't in the open like bikers.

See that is the same problem. not all hi-vis is created equal.
When I am hunting I wear blaze orange. It is completely different to hi-vis clothing. In low light it stands out like dogs balls.
I have watched other hunters walk through the bush on the other side of the valley and picked out only their high-vis.

Like bike gear I will continue to wear it, if it helps that will be great, if it doesn't at least it is comfortable.

[f2dz]

Tempted a few times to not wear my proper pants with armor in them, but I've never ridden without all my gear on.

Murphy's Law, the time you choose to not wear gear will most likely be the time you wished you had.

[onearmedbandit]

After doing so, I wondered if some of the ATGATT crowd would have just gone through because they had right of way, and would be less concerned about the small chance of an off cos of their gear.

Not me. I wear the extra protection in case I come off, not so I can ride with less care.

[Tigadee]

I like putting my gears on... makes me feel like Iron Man. Here's a picture of me with full gear on:
269968

[oneofsix]

Tempted a few times to not wear my proper pants with armor in them, but I've never ridden without all my gear on.

Murphy's Law, the time you choose to not wear gear will most likely be the time you wished you had.

+1 It's easy to debate and gather opinions on here but don't think I am likely to risk it any time soon. To think I started with just the helmet, some ski gloves and PVC, they do say ignorance is bliss, glad I didn't have an off back then. At least the kids have started with proper gear.

[SMOKEU]

I ALWAYS ride road bikes in full riding gear, including a leather jacket, armoured riding pants, leather gloves, leather boots and a full face helmet. One time I rode a dirt bike with all the gear, except jeans instead of my riding pants. It wasn't fun having to pick stones out from under the skin in my knee after I binned it.

[whowhatwhere]

What the fuck has putting on gear got to do with your head-space. Your head-space affects how you ride, being confident enough of your safe riding style not to bother with full gear suggests either stupid invulnerability or confidence in ones ability. I'd hope for most of us not crashing in the first place is far more important than mitigating damage if you do (not that they are exclusive of course). What we ride in, and what we ride are far less important than how we ride.
Gear isn't magic dude, it provides a level of protection relative to impact speed/direction, and slide distance/surface. I wouldn't be surprised if jeans at 50k offers the same practical level of protection that riding pants at 100k does.

What a charmer. There's a relationship between "I'll just nip to the shop, it's not far so jeans will do" and taking the time to gear up. If you're not in a rush gettinng protected then you're not in a rush trying to get somewhere. Of course gear isn't magic but fuck, it doesn't hurt to lesser your chances of road rash. The comparison of jeans at 50 vs decent pants at 100 is meaningless. Which is better at 50? Which is better at 100? Same answer for both ffs.

[oneofsix]

What a charmer. There's a relationship between "I'll just nip to the shop, it's not far so jeans will do" and taking the time to gear up. If you're not in a rush gettinng protected then you're not in a rush trying to get somewhere. Of course gear isn't magic but fuck, it doesn't hurt to lesser your chances of road rash. The comparison of jeans at 50 vs decent pants at 100 is meaningless. Which is better at 50? Which is better at 100? Same answer for both ffs.

It is normal to put shoes/boots on, throw on a jacket and not too much of a chore to put on gloves and helmet - a bit like putting the seat belt on, but to pull on another pair of trousers is a bit more unusual and a bit more of a chore. Makes taking the bike more time intensive than jumping in the car. None of which affects where your head is at. Putting the gloves and helmet on or closing the door and putting the seat belt on is mean I adjust my head space.

None of the above changes your point that no matter the speed full gear is more protective than part gear. Then again living in a bubble would be more protective again.

[Tigadee]

In summer, I wear jeans but with a full knee/shin protector underneath. Especially in town going to get groceries or running errands, I don't think motorbike pants will make much difference... I still put on helmet, jacket, boots and gloves tho.

[bogan]

What a charmer. There's a relationship between "I'll just nip to the shop, it's not far so jeans will do" and taking the time to gear up. If you're not in a rush gettinng protected then you're not in a rush trying to get somewhere. Of course gear isn't magic but fuck, it doesn't hurt to lesser your chances of road rash. The comparison of jeans at 50 vs decent pants at 100 is meaningless. Which is better at 50? Which is better at 100? Same answer for both ffs.

So if you have 5 mins to get to the shop, and spend 2 mins gearing up, isn't using the gear more likely to make you rush?

The comparison is not meaningless, its establishing an acceptable risk. If true, what it means is you riding at 100kmhr is as risky as me riding at 50kmhr with half the gear, yet you're suggesting I reduce my risk... If you want to have tha absolute safest gear at all times, take the car; if you want to be responsible for your own risk, choose the appropriate gear for the ride you're doing.

[Tryhard]

Learnt my lesson early on. Gravel rash stings like F. ATGATT for me!

[slofox]

Atgatt - att

[Berries]

Who out there wears their full gear every time they get on the bike? Proper rides are different and no brainers.
In over twenty years as a weekday commuter and several long distance trips each year I have never owned 'all the gear' let alone worn it. I disagree with you that it is a no brainer, but each to their own.


There's a relationship between "I'll just nip to the shop, it's not far so jeans will do" and taking the time to gear up.
Yes, one takes longer than the other. That's all.

The obvious and logical conclusion to ATGATT is to drive a car. Once you have your helmet and full leathers the next step is to build a cage around yourself as protection. Obviously we don't do that because we have all accepted the risk that riding on two wheels brings. So the clothing that you decide to wear is just another part of the risk assessment. I'd say that it is not what we wear that is the issue, it is the fact that we ride motorbikes. The rest is just arguing the toss.

And to argue the toss a bit more, how many people who claim to ride in ATGATT ride with a neck brace, back protector and one piece airsuit? Hmmm. Not really ATG then is it?

[mossy1200]

All gear. My leather pants look better than jeans.

Saying that I only ride my bike in weekends or fine summer evenings so im on it for a hour or more.

Im to lazy to gear up for a run to dairy and have a work vehicle full of free gas.

[Cochise4]

ATGATT for me.

[mylodon]

ATGATT for me.

boots, gloves, helmet

those are the parts of me that would have been ground away in the tumbles i've taken
gloves are most important imho. although my boots have kept me walking a couple critical times.

i have been off at around 70k which wasn't great but it's only really a rash. i think the main problem is if you go under a car, not getting a rash. i'm not sure what you have to wear to survive going under a car.



i'm curious though; with all this, do ya'll atgatt on rarotonga when heading to trader jack's?

[mikemike104]

Jacket, gloves, helmet, jeans, boots. Only bother with pants on out of town trips.

This is me also, but the riding jeans with kevlar fwiw.

[Matariki]

Who out there wears their full gear every time they get on the bike?

I do. For me wearing my motorcycle gear is like wearing my seat belt when I'm driving. When I'm on the road, not only am I responsible for myself, but I owe it to my family, friends and the general public to ride safely.

The gear that I wear when I ride includes the following; A hi-viz full face helmet, motorcycle jacket, a hi-viz vest, motorcycle gloves, motorcycle pants and motorcycle boots. These days I wouldn't ride in anything less than what I've listed.

[mylodon]

I do. For me wearing my motorcycle gear is like wearing my seat belt when I'm driving. When I'm on the road, not only am I responsible for myself, but I owe it to my family, friends and the general public to ride safely.

The gear that I wear when I ride includes the following; A hi-viz full face helmet, motorcycle jacket, a hi-viz vest, motorcycle gloves, motorcycle pants and motorcycle boots. These days I wouldn't ride in anything less than what I've listed.

even on a scooter in rarotonga?

[Matariki]

even on a scooter in rarotonga?

Yes. Hell, even if I was were riding a bicycle you wouldn't catch me without safety gear.

[huff3r]

i have been off at around 70k which wasn't great but it's only really a rash. i think the main problem is if you go under a car, not getting a rash. i'm not sure what you have to wear to survive going under a car.



Exoskeleton?

[Berries]

i'm curious though; with all this, do ya'll atgatt on rarotonga when heading to trader jack's?
Flip flops and sunglasses is ATGATT over there.

If you get the chance go and have a look out the back of the police station in Avarua. When I was there it was chock full of smashed up scooters and some pretty sad holiday stories to go with them. Mind you, the place is a shit hole anyway. The whole island should be rammed in to a palm tree at high speed if you ask me. Twice.

And then burnt.

[mylodon]

Flip flops and sunglasses is ATGATT over there.

If you get the chance go and have a look out the back of the police station in Avarua. When I was there it was chock full of smashed up scooters and some pretty sad holiday stories to go with them. Mind you, the place is a shit hole anyway. The whole island should be rammed in to a palm tree at high speed if you ask me. Twice.

And then burnt.

whoa -- i had a good time with my sun glasses and flipflops.
just me, open stretch of road, chickens, dogs.

but i spent most my time diving on the other (quieter) side of the island.
i liked the place personally.

[McFatty1000]

[QUOTE=Berries;1130396294]In over twenty years as a weekday commuter and several long distance trips each year I have never owned 'all the gear' let alone worn it. I disagree with you that it is a no brainer, but each to their own.

Yeah thats your call, I can't say I've ever done atgatt truely myself as I've only just picked up some boots, something I would include as all the normal gear - what do you deem as all the gear anyway? And do the gear bits have to be the 'proper items' to be considered atgatt? Ie, leather gloves that weren't from a motorbike shop etc

The main reason I asked was I was a little curious on what NZ riders viewed as the done thing - I've found myself doing a number of my commuter trips lately with jeans rather than my riding pants due to the convenience; jacket, gloves, helmet and now boots are becoming routine now at least, as I add more items to my gear list at least.

[Owl]

Only things compulsory for me are gloves, helmet and decent footwear.

However I'm usually NOT commuting, so therefore I have ATG on.

[Fast Eddie]

I don't even drive a car without helmet, neckbrace and fireproof suit.

incase something happens at 100kph and I go off the road roll over and catch fire.. could happen!

all the gear ALL THE TIME!! hahaha :shifty:

[george formby]

I fired myself through just about every hedge in Northumberland when I was a yoof, only one reason I'm still riding, good gear.

[sootie]

I fired myself through just about every hedge in Northumberland when I was a yoof, only one reason I'm still riding, good gear.

I think you should consider a good lightning rod too George - just to be safe! :killingme:

[Lozza2442]

I fired myself through just about every hedge in Northumberland when I was a yoof, only one reason I'm still riding, good gear.

Not sure if you're aware, but the hedges aren't for driving on :P Would make traffic better if you could drive on the top of them though! haha

[oneofsix]

Not sure if you're aware, but the hedges aren't for driving on :P Would make traffic better if you could drive on the top of them though! haha

Richard Pearse pioneered the use of hedges as landing strips in NZ, just not for motorbikes even if his plane was largely made from bicycle parts. :laugh:

[george formby]

Not sure if you're aware, but the hedges aren't for driving on :P Would make traffic better if you could drive on the top of them though! haha

It's the ones with a stone wall in the middle that you can ride on. Bloody Romans!

[p.dath]

Who out there wears their full gear every time they get on the bike? Proper rides are different and no brainers but things like running down to the shops? And yes, I'm aware that its your own body on the line so the decision is yours at the end of the day..

With the exception of my back protector, every time.

I only use the back protector if I know I am going on 100Km/h roads.

[SPman]

In NZ, I used to step into my leathers, even to go down to the shops - it became second nature and I barely noticed it.
Then - moved to WA - in winter - continued to do so..it saved my skin (literally) once with an altercation with a skippy...until the temps started climbing into the high 30's, low 40's!
Suddenly Draggins and a perforated textile jacket became attractive options.....
Now, when I take the RG down to town, it's my 70's leather jacket and jeans again......

[HenryDorsetCase]

I ride in jeans a bit. Draggin usually. and I wear engineer boots which might come off in a crash if wearing jeans. thats for sifting about the town or coming to work.

always a leather jacket, fullface helmet and gloves.

open road its leather pants and Sidi boots etc.

of course it is a comfort vs protection tradeoff.

[Jerry74]

always wear full gear, I like skin on my body.

[The Lone Rider]

Jeans, singlet, skull cap, and work boots all year round rain or shine.

Anything more is for pussys.

I'd wear shorts if I had nicer legs.

[tail_end_charlie]

I've had two offs in the last six months while wearing the same gear: full face helmet, motorcycle jacket (w/o armor), gloves, jeans, and Gearne racing boots. Once was <50kph and the second time was <30kph. Both times I walked away with no serious injuries (sprained ankle bruised knee & shoulder, minor road rash through the jeans) and I've learned a few things from it:

-Need more practice/training on low speed handling and wet weather riding.
-Need pants and jacket with good armor, even for dwadling off to work as a commuter. That 1 meter fall from the normal riding position onto asphalt hurts the same weither you are going 30 kph or 120 kph. Its what it takes to stop you from those speeds that makes the difference.

Did I think I was wearing good gear at the time, yes. Do I think so now, not so much. And if you look up accident rates, I think you will find it surprising just how many wrecks/crashes happen within 5 km of home. So just nipping out to buy milk from the dairy down the road is just as or even more dangerous then going for a weekend ride around the cape. At least in the latter you are fully into the "I'm on my motorcycle and I need to ride like everyone cager is out to kill me." whereas the former you are more likely to not be 100% motorcycle mode.

Summary: I wasn't ATGATT before, but I am now.

[Hawkeye]

Saturday morning, I was at my bike gearing up, back protector/knee sliders attached/elbow armour back in/radar detector on and at the ready, iPod set and plugs in/dark visor changed to clear..
Anne asked '' where ya going''?
''To get some milk......why''?

I'm the same Maha, gear up even to go for milk. However, the nearest dairy to me from Welly is Featherston:innocent:

[Maha]

I'm the same Maha, gear up even to go for milk. However, the nearest dairy to me from Welly is Featherston:innocent:

....ours is about 500 mts but a carefree attitude to safety just wont do..........at all :blink:

[Hawkeye]

....ours is about 500 mts but a carefree attitude to safety just wont do..........at all :blink:

By the time I gear up, I could have walked to my nearest dairy but find that it can take me at least an hour when I go on the bike...

[HenryDorsetCase]

I like wearing my back protector because it pushes my flabby bits up and down, so it looks like I have a massive penile bulge, and giant pecs. Ladeez love that stuff.

[HenryDorsetCase]

I go to the dairy by pushbike. I dont even wear a bicycle helmet because I am a guru, I'm a rebel, I'm a beatnik.

also, its 50m and I dont have to cross the road because I ride on the footpath..... BAHAHAHAHAHAHA I am :satan:

[Banditbandit]

The main reason I asked was I was a little curious on what NZ riders viewed as the done thing - I've found myself doing a number of my commuter trips lately with jeans rather than my riding pants due to the convenience; jacket, gloves, helmet and now boots are becoming routine now at least, as I add more items to my gear list at least.

I'm definitely ATGATT - I recently dumped my 650 at nearly zero speed - still managed to mess up my left hand, which was under the bar when the bike dropped - it was rather painful and swollen for several weeks (but the clutch lever didn't break and the bar end weight was fine, but it did bend the bars slightly) - I would have been much worse except for the leather reinforced gloves. Apart from that I walked away.

I recently bought Draggin jeans that I commute in ... and I wear them with a full face helmet, armoured jacket and bike boots for my daily commute.

On the big bike it's leather pants and jacket - with the full face helmet, boots and gloves.

I've been riding several decades now and have walked away (well sometimes limped away) from 11 offs ... can walk away only because of the gear .. (I've never had to be carried off ... )

[actungbaby]

Who out there wears their full gear every time they get on the bike? Proper rides are different and no brainers but things like running down to the shops? And yes, I'm aware that its your own body on the line so the decision is yours at the end of the day..

I worn cooton long trousers all my life on the bike never hurt myself or got bad grazing mind you mostley rode in town

But i have fallen of quite few times might been lucky who knows , never hurt my hands either always worn gloves and good helemet/

jacket , leather suit or pants are just not me i feel like a twit , not that saying that about people wear them just am not a racer

[caseye]

I hope that you never have the misfortune to have an off wearing your preferred cotton trousers.
I'm guilty of wearing Rhino Jeans ( kevlar panels and pocket Armour )around town but if I'm away for a long ride or a weekend it's full leather everything, just not worth the risk.

[onearmedbandit]

jacket , leather suit or pants are just not me i feel like a twit , not that saying that about people wear them just am not a racer

I wear full leathers, and I'm not a racer either. But I've experienced cotton pants hitting the deck at 60km/h. Walking for a couple of weeks was not fun, my knees were that badly messed up I could hardly move them. If I had been wearing my leathers that day I still would've done other damage, but at least I could've enjoyed getting out of bed by myself at night to go to the toilet.

[davereid]

Its all part of living. Some things carry risk, but make your life a more enjoyable place.

Loud music, I like it. But its bad for my ears.

Sex without a condom, suits me too. I know its risky.

A beer or five on a Saturday night, danger there.

Putting down the road, enjoying the sights and sounds of the country without helmet or ATTGAT. I like that too.

Someone else can spend their life in the cotton wool. Go for it. Feel good about it, safe and moral.

But please don't moan when I choose to take risk for pleasure.

You see I'm scared that when the powers that be say they want me to be the safest motorcyclist available, that they dont mean it, as you know motorcycling is 25 times more dangerous than driving a car.

They actually just want to get rid of my motorcycle. After all, I could be go all the same places 25x safer in a Volvo.

[awayatc]

I got all the gear,sometimes I wear all....

sometimes I wear none...

living was never meant to be safe.............

get over it.....

[onearmedbandit]

I got all the gear,sometimes I wear all....

sometimes I wear none...

living was never meant to be safe.............

get over it.....

Riding a bike is considered by some not to be safe. Riding at the speeds I do occasionally is considered unsafe, no doubt by many. But if there is something I can do to limit the damage to my body while enjoying these 'unsafe' activities then I'll take it. See I've 'got over' damage from not wearing the right gear before. Something I'd rather not get over again. But that's just me, what others do is up to them. I must admit I sometimes wish I was oblivious as some riders I see getting around in no gear, so much easier then gearing up. But Like I said, don't need to go down that road again. Pun not intended.

[sleemanj]

Cordura jacket & pants, gloves, steel toe work boots, and helmet of course.

My pants (which I wear over my jeans) have zips which go (inside of leg) to about mid way between knee and groin, this allows one to easily get in and out of them without taking off your boots, takes me in total well under a minute to put my gear on, or take it off, so I'd be a muppet not to.

I wear steel toe work boots anyway, they do just fine for the bike for my purposes.

[Road kill]

The only things I wear every time I ride are my boots,jacket,gloves and helmet.

I have leather pants,,hate the fucking things so wear jeans 90% of the time.

Wear an open face helmet more often than my full face.

My boots are chainsaw boots "used to just be called forestry boots but somebody must of decided "chainsaw" sounds cooler,but there still the toughest piece of footwear on the planet either way.

My gloves are black cordura lined riggers gloves,they keep my hands warm in most weather.

I don't really take riding gear to the extremes some do,,but then I haven't come off in over 25 years so I actually do know how to ride anyway.

Some of you twice a week guys should give it a try,,it's cheap to take courses an shit,and doesn't hurt anywhere near as much as falling off all the time.

[FJRider]

Cordura jacket & pants, gloves, steel toe work boots, and helmet of course.

My pants (which I wear over my jeans) have zips which go (inside of leg) to about mid way between knee and groin, this allows one to easily get in and out of them without taking off your boots, takes me in total well under a minute to put my gear on, or take it off, so I'd be a muppet not to.

I wear steel toe work boots anyway, they do just fine for the bike for my purposes.

I wear similar gear ... but I find in the cooler (near zero) temp's ... the toe-cap area in my boots turn fridge like. I have linings for both pants and jacket. Which is about the only change (winter/summer) I make ... apart from an extra layer or two underneath it all ... if required.

Even in summer it gets a bit cooler on the mountain passes in the south island. As some north island bikers have found. Their "winter" gear is often just not quite up to it. (But go home and fit heated grips :lol:)

[DEATH_INC.]

I've been known to testride bikes up the street in shorts, singlet and bare feet before.
Not all the time, but I've done it. :nono:
Riding to work (5 mins) is usually helmet and gloves, maybe a jacket. I have the scars to prove it. :no:
And no, I didn't learn...:weird:
Proper rides means proper gear though....:devil2:

[sootie]

Their "winter" gear is often just not quite up to it. (But go home and fit heated grips :lol:)

Heated grips are really great for battery sales for those who commute on bikes around Auckland!
(Some bikes have better charging than other - small and offroad tend to give the most trouble.)
FYI :innocent:

[James Deuce]

I sat in my bike on the side of the road with no helmet on and then rode it down my "driveway" (special gravel/grass blend). I got yelled at by two different people. I think they may have been jealous because of the sexy cut of my jib.

[Ocean1]

I try not to be a slave to habit, but for the road the only real variable for me is the pants. I'll wear anything from jeans to kevlar reinforced pants, (with or without armour) to fully armoured synthetics to leather.

And here's the thing: you're probably no more or less likely to damage yourself no matter what you wear, whether you're aware of it or not your risk-taking behaviour takes into account how safe or exposed you feel. So the worst thing you can be is confident that your kit will save your skin in the event of an off. Because you'll ride accordingly. And the fact is luck will dictate far more of the outcome of your bin than any scrap of clothing.

So gear up all you like, but try to ride like you're naked.

[FJRider]

I sat in my bike on the side of the road with no helmet on and then rode it down my "driveway" (special gravel/grass blend). I got yelled at by two different people. I think they may have been jealous because of the sexy cut of my jib.

Next time ... keep your jib in your pants ... otherwise it wont just be your parents yelling at you ... :lol:

[James Deuce]

I couldn't help it, I was tacking at the time.

[onearmedbandit]

And here's the thing: you're probably no more or less likely to damage yourself no matter what you wear, whether you're aware of it or not your risk-taking behaviour takes into account how safe or exposed you feel. So the worst thing you can be is confident that your kit will save your skin in the event of an off. Because you'll ride accordingly. And the fact is luck will dictate far more of the outcome of your bin than any scrap of clothing.

So gear up all you like, but try to ride like you're naked.

80km/h off in jeans or leathers? What would you choose?

[DEATH_INC.]

80km/h off in jeans or leathers? What would you choose?
Funnily enough, the last off I had on the road (120ish kmh) the only part that didn't really get rashed was where the jeans cover. Not fancy kevlar one's either...

[onearmedbandit]

Funnily enough, the last off I had on the road (120ish kmh) the only part that didn't really get rashed was where the jeans cover. Not fancy kevlar one's either...

Ok then. 80km/h off in jeans or leathers where you slide on an abrasive surface on your arse.

[Madness]

I couldn't help it, I was tacking at the time.

Careful, you'll pull something.

[Ocean1]

80km/h off in jeans or leathers? What would you choose?

On chipseal? Leather, all things being equal. But they never are, I don't tour with leather for example, not good in the wet and too bulky to carry.

Risk isn't just about consequences, dude.

[FJRider]

Risk isn't just about consequences, dude.

Nor is the wearing of any gear ... about the removal of risk. But about the management of the consequences ....

[AllanB]

Yep - neck to toe in leather.

[skippa1]

interesting thread. I have always been strong on ATGATT, certainly for the open road. But having moved to Auckland, I found that sitting in traffic on an air cooled bike in 20 degree + temperatures, I found that all of the gear can be very hot and you can end up sweating so much that you dont actually concentrate the same. I have found that on 50kmh rides, jeans and an open face hemet help me keep cool and concentrate which I think is safer than sweating, fogging up and feeling like you are going to pass out.

[onearmedbandit]

Risk isn't just about consequences, dude.

I never said it was.

[FJRider]

interesting thread. I have always been strong on ATGATT, certainly for the open road. But having moved to Auckland, I found that sitting in traffic on an air cooled bike in 20 degree + temperatures, I found that all of the gear can be very hot and you can end up sweating so much that you dont actually concentrate the same. I have found that on 50kmh rides, jeans and an open face hemet help me keep cool and concentrate which I think is safer than sweating, fogging up and feeling like you are going to pass out.

Interestingly ... I live in an area where summer temperatures get over 35degree temp's ... and wearing Cordua gear is actually cooler than black leather.

If you live in Auckland ... 50 km's wouldn't get you out of the city. Even on a motorway ... :lol:

[skippa1]

Interestingly ... I live in an area where summer temperatures get over 35degree temp's ... and wearing Cordua gear is actually cooler than black leather.

If you live in Auckland ... 50 km's wouldn't get you out of the city. Even on a motorway ... :lol:

50km/h not 50km radius

[Banditbandit]

Funnily enough, the last off I had on the road (120ish kmh) the only part that didn't really get rashed was where the jeans cover. Not fancy kevlar one's either...

Yeah .. my last big off I was wearing ordinary denim jeans ... dropped the bike at around 110klicks ... didn't even rip the jeans .. (I was wearing a leather jacket, full face, boots and gloves) ... that was around 1998 ... Not a shining example ... now I never wear denim jeans ... only Draggin jeans or leathers ..

[sootie]

Interestingly ... I live in an area where summer temperatures get over 35degree temp's ... and wearing Cordua gear is actually cooler than black leather.


Come on now FJR - I was born down your way. When the tempearture gets to 35 deg the humidity goes to around 10%, (keeping cool is not that difficult) and a lot of the time, you are known to ride in shall we say "somewhat cooler conditions"? :yes:

[G4L4XY]

One longer rides I will wear full gear mostly.
Commuting to and from work I wont
Last weekend I rode down to Hamilton in jeans and my jacket, weather was beautiful.
Came back up on the sunday, jeans got soaked :( Though they almost dried out by the time I got back up to Auckland haha

[GrayWolf]

Who out there wears their full gear every time they get on the bike? Proper rides are different and no brainers but things like running down to the shops? And yes, I'm aware that its your own body on the line so the decision is yours at the end of the day..

if it is local shops only (50kph) then jacket, jeans (or kevlar lined) gloves, good strong boots.... any chance of going into an over 50kph, zone? ATGATT

[wysper]

any chance of going into an over 50kph, zone? ATGATT

Not getting at you GrayWolf.
But this has always puzzled me, would it be true that most accidents/offs are in town?
So ATGATT would be as crucial there.

Sure the offs on the open road have a much greater potential for injury but also a smaller chance of happening.

So if you are playing the numbers, and had to pick one, wouldn't you be better off picking in town?

Unless you are choosing the option that would hurt you more...so wear the gear when you are on a 'ride'.

Me, I am most of the gear most of the time, all of the gear some of the time, none of the gear none of the time kind of guy.

[sootie]

Me, I am most of the gear most of the time, all of the gear some of the time, none of the gear none of the time kind of guy.

I guess that would come out as MMTASTNNT. Do you think this could get a bit confusing guys?? :weird:

[GrayWolf]

Not getting at you GrayWolf.
But this has always puzzled me, would it be true that most accidents/offs are in town?
So ATGATT would be as crucial there.

Sure the offs on the open road have a much greater potential for injury but also a smaller chance of happening.

So if you are playing the numbers, and had to pick one, wouldn't you be better off picking in town?

Unless you are choosing the option that would hurt you more...so wear the gear when you are on a 'ride'.

Me, I am most of the gear most of the time, all of the gear some of the time, none of the gear none of the time kind of guy.

Understand its looks confusing, so here's the 'logic'..... ATGATT..... lets be realistic, even the most expensive gear will not prevent broken bones. Realistically, the 'gear' will only prevent/mitigate gravel rash. Armour reduces impact, it still leaves you vulnerable to impact breaks or joints being bent the wrong way... Back protectors?? If you read the research most back injuries are not caused by 'direct impact' but due to a rotational impact.. no armour will 'proof' against rotational fractures.
So wearing jacket. boots, gloves is most of the gear, the denim jeans or kevlar lined pants are as good as anything in a 50kph zone for reducing gravel rash.

[p.dath]

Understand its looks confusing, so here's the 'logic'..... ATGATT..... lets be realistic, even the most expensive gear will not prevent broken bones...

If you used that logic you might as well say why bother with a helmet? Do you use a helmet only to prevent a bit of gravel rash on your head?

Anything with a hard shell around it can dissipate energy around the impact point. The less energy transmitted into your body during an accident the better. Body armour will most definitely help dissipate impact energy. Will it be enough to prevent bones breaking? There are no guarantees that it wont prevent bones from being broken.

And the end of the day, it's about what you personally consider to be a risk. If you think the risk of your bones being broken is low, you'll wear gear appropriate to the risk you feel your exposed to. If you are concerned about bones being broken you'll wear gear appropriate to the risk you feel you are exposed to. Neither view is right or wrong - it's a personal choice.

[GrayWolf]

If you used that logic you might as well say why bother with a helmet? Do you use a helmet only to prevent a bit of gravel rash on your head?

Anything with a hard shell around it can dissipate energy around the impact point. The less energy transmitted into your body during an accident the better.
Body armour will most definitely help dissipate impact energy. Will it be enough to prevent bones breaking? There are no guarantees that it wont prevent bones from being broken.
I think I said that.... " Armour reduces impact, it still leaves you vulnerable to impact breaks or joints being bent the wrong way"
Neither view is right or wrong - it's a personal choice.

As for a helmet, that IS the one piece of protective gear that can and does prevent breakages, because it is a solid 'hard shell' with an impact dissipating inner liner,,, cant exactly wear a 'solid' tube on the body.... and think a 'suit of armour' would be highly restrictive neer to say impracticable.

[PeloNZ]

I rode with no helmet, tshirt and sneakers today - what a badass!

I moved the bike about 30 metres, from the road to my driveway :p

[Akzle]

just wondering. it might have been covered, but cbf read whole thread.

how much armour, do people rock out the road with?
...personally i have back plate... no elbows, knees or shoulders

[McFatty1000]

just wondering. it might have been covered, but cbf read whole thread.

how much armour, do people rock out the road with?
...personally i have back plate... no elbows, knees or shoulders

I have hard armour in the shoulders, elbows and padding on the back in my jacket, boots with soft armour in them, only leather gloves and knee and some hip padding when I wear my proper pants. Thats about it, assuming a helmet is taken for granted as always worn.

My textile jacket only has soft armour in at the same points.

So, in reality, not much at all.

[madandy]

I like putting my gears on... makes me feel like Iron Man. Here's a picture of me with full gear on:
269968


just wondering. it might have been covered, but cbf read whole thread.

how much armour, do people rock out the road with?
...personally i have back plate... no elbows, knees or shoulders

For a careful nip down the shops I throw on my helmet, jacket, boots, Drgn jeans and gloves.
The jacket is a Quasimoto with extensive armour onthe shoulders, elbows, forearms and a large back protector. Any farther than the local shops and the back brace and leather pants(full hip 'n front thigh padding) with knee and shin armour.
Boots are fancy Oxtar race type with titanium and plastic reinforcing and a hinged heel that squeaks when I walk. It all looks greatand I feel like Ironman.

[p.dath]

just wondering. it might have been covered, but cbf read whole thread.

how much armour, do people rock out the road with?
...personally i have back plate... no elbows, knees or shoulders

Two piece leathers with knee and elbow armour. And if I know I am going on 100Km/h roads, a back protector.

[Akzle]

sheesh. i'm going out a bit light then. :( taken all the rubber bits out of knees and elbows and shoulders.....

[Berries]

For commuting I wear my works trousers or jeans depending what I am going to be doing at work. If I am going on a long trip I will make sure I have my best jeans on, ie the ones that haven't yet gone thin around the knees.

[McFatty1000]

sheesh. i'm going out a bit light then. :( taken all the rubber bits out of knees and elbows and shoulders.....

Well, if I'm honest, I'm only wearing so much due to my jacket being awesome and badass...

[Bassmatt]

I've left my shoulder elbow and knee armour in all my gear.
I dont think its gonna do alot in a serious crash, my reasoning is if I come off at any speed and land on my knee or elbow its gonna hurt like hell without it in.
I'm a wuss :baby:

[Horney1]

What the fuck has putting on gear got to do with your head-space. Your head-space affects how you ride, being confident enough of your safe riding style not to bother with full gear suggests either stupid invulnerability or confidence in ones ability. I'd hope for most of us not crashing in the first place is far more important than mitigating damage if you do (not that they are exclusive of course). What we ride in, and what we ride are far less important than how we ride.
Gear isn't magic dude, it provides a level of protection relative to impact speed/direction, and slide distance/surface. I wouldn't be surprised if jeans at 50k offers the same practical level of protection that riding pants at 100k does.


Right on the money there Bogan, gear isn't magic.

I've been down the road at speed with stuff all on, I know what gravel and tar can do to flesh covered in jeans or by light clothing through various experiences, it hurts but it generally heals after a week or three. I do tend to wear more more often now but if I want to ride to the shops in shorts and singlet, I'll do it. My only do not do is jandals. Gotta be able to stomp that foot down without a thong splitting ya foot.

My minimum for a down to the shops has been helmet, gloves, shoes & whatever clothes I'm wearing at the time. Jeans will protect surprisingly well, better in fact than the light cotton material used in the Draggins I bought a couple of years ago.

I try to avoid offs in the first place but I'm not scared of a bit of gravel rash should it come to that. I got over crying about that very early on in my life. I've skated hard enough to melt the soles my sandshoes and as I was wearing shorts and a short sleeved light cotton shirt (helmet & gloves) at the time I had to do everything in my power to minimise the damage and use the gloves and shoes as much as possible, which I did. Tore my shorts a bit, grazed my arse a bit, grazed my forearms a bit, timed a curb jump just right and came to rest on grass. Could have been much worse if a car was there or if I hit the curb with my foot. Luckily neither occurred but armour probably wouldn't have saved me if a car was there and my motocross boots may have saved my ankle if I hit the curb but could have transferred the impact forces to my hip and shattered that.

Then there was the time one hot summer with a chick on the back in her bikini and me in my shorts (+helmets &? shoes). Might leave that one for another forum but absolutely no crash/ fall/ grazes involved and we both had a great ride :innocent: !




Its all part of living. Some things carry risk, but make your life a more enjoyable place.
........
Someone else can spend their life in the cotton wool. Go for it. Feel good about it, safe and moral.

But please don't moan when I choose to take risk for pleasure......


Yep, same. You've got to take some risks to live life. Cotton wool is so ... suffocating.



......
The obvious and logical conclusion to ATGATT is to drive a car. Once you have your helmet and full leathers the next step is to build a cage around yourself as protection. Obviously we don't do that because we have all accepted the risk that riding on two wheels brings....

So true Berries.



boots, gloves, helmet

those are the parts of me that would have been ground away in the tumbles i've taken
gloves are most important imho. although my boots have kept me walking a couple critical times.

i have been off at around 70k which wasn't great but it's only really a rash. i think the main problem is if you go under a car, not getting a rash. i'm not sure what you have to wear to survive going under a car...


Yep, the problem is not gravel rash, it's obstacles (& those damned cheese slice things they're putting everywhere!). Obviously armour will protect from obstacles more and leather will protect more from grazes more than jeans. But part of biking is about the freedom and that's about doing it my way whatever my free will be at any particular time.

In saying all this I also do try harder to not fall off now! You know, the 'ol falling is not an option theory...

[BoristheBiter]

Right on the money there Bogan, gear isn't magic.

I've been down the road at speed with stuff all on, I know what gravel and tar can do to flesh covered in jeans or by light clothing through various experiences, it hurts but it generally heals after a week or three. I do tend to wear more more often now but if I want to ride to the shops in shorts and singlet, I'll do it. My only do not do is jandals. Gotta be able to stomp that foot down without a thong splitting ya foot.


And that's it in a nut shell, if you are happy with the effects why not.

Like you said to much cotton wool from a cotton wool society.

I am a fan of ATTGAT and wouldn't get on a bike without it but I wouldn't stop anyone from riding that doesn't.
It's like others telling us we can't ride bikes as we might crash and hurt ourselves.

[FJRider]

ATGATT will not remove pain from the accident "equation" ... just lessen the effects ...

ALL the gear does not make you bullet proof. It STILL hurts.

WITH wearing the gear ... it AIDS recovery time.

Risk factor is still up to you.

Are you feeling lucky ... ???

[p.dath]

And that's it in a nut shell, if you are happy with the effects why not.

Like you said to much cotton wool from a cotton wool society.

I am a fan of ATTGAT and wouldn't get on a bike without it but I wouldn't stop anyone from riding that doesn't.
It's like others telling us we can't ride bikes as we might crash and hurt ourselves.

Here is a trickier one for you. I am also a ATTGAT fan. The other day I had someone who wanted me to take them as a pillion - but they refused to wear the gear I had for them, instead wanting to ride with just jeans and with no jacket.

I explained to them the effect of coming off, even at low speed. I figure if they understand the risks it should be ok.

The still decided they didn't want to wear any gear. I found it a tough call, but I decided since I was the person actually riding the bike, that I had a great deal of responsibility of the pillions safety, and even though they accepted the risks that I could not. The net result is I didn't take them.

What would you do?

[BoristheBiter]

Here is a trickier one for you. I am also a ATTGAT fan. The other day I had someone who wanted me to take them as a pillion - but they refused to wear the gear I had for them, instead wanting to ride with just jeans and with no jacket.

I explained to them the effect of coming off, even at low speed. I figure if they understand the risks it should be ok.

The still decided they didn't want to wear any gear. I found it a tough call, but I decided since I was the person actually riding the bike, that I had a great deal of responsibility of the pillions safety, and even though they accepted the risks that I could not. The net result is I didn't take them.

What would you do?

I don't pillion as I don't class myself as a good enough rider to do so.

But if did I would probably have done the same, just like i don't drive off if someone hasn't got their seat belt on in the car.
Your bike/car your rules.

[McFatty1000]

Your bike/car your rules.

If only more people actually understood this..

What was the reason for not wearing the rest of the gear though?

[BoristheBiter]

If only more people actually understood this..

What was the reason for not wearing gloves though?

Who mentioned gloves??

[McFatty1000]

Edited post, meant gloves etc..

[p.dath]

Edited post, meant gloves etc..

Basically they didn't like the "look".

[McFatty1000]

Ah right, yeah, I'd be hesitant to take passengers that refused to wear gear that was there? (I mean, if I could and the gear was suitable)

I'm hesitant to let people ride my bike if they don't have at least gloves on

[caspernz]

I normally ride with all the gear, for the simple reason that when I head out on the bike it's never for a short 5 minute ride. Even my commute is 20-25 minutes and it only takes a minute or two to hop into the kit anyway.

Trip to the dairy or supermarket? Hop in the car...

Those are my choices :Punk:

[Berries]

What would you do?
Same as you to be honest. In fact, I probably haven't carried a pillion for 20 years. I am more than happy being responsible for myself. I will wear what I consider appropriate gear and I will ride in much the same manner because I know that if I fuck up only I will get hurt. I don't want to even consider being the rider in a crash where the pillion gets badly hurt or worse. My risk assessment lets me get away with never having worn all the gear because I don't intend to crash and yet I won't carry a pillion in case I do crash. Go figure.

[sootie]

Trip to the dairy or supermarket? Hop in the car...

Those are my choices :Punk:
Interesting choice. If your car is petrol injected it cannot tune itself until the oxygen sensor in the exhaust gets hot. This takes 5 or 10 kms of running, so you are really going thru the gas on your short car runs to the supermarket with a cold start. I have a little air cooled scooter for this job, and you guessed it, I don't wear full gear to go to the supermarket & back! (Scooter can carry quite a load of groceries incidently.) :laugh:

[Akzle]

...I don't class myself as a good enough rider to do so...
is that, some kind of... objective humility... from BORIS?!


I'm hesitant to let people ride my bike if they don't have at least gloves on

jah. gloves are a biggie for me. google image search "degloving" and you'll shortly see why.
i hear feet are bad too. but y' don't need feet to jerk off!

i'd take a pillion without gear, not for a ride, but 'twere i going somewhere. helmet, footwear and gloves is all i require of any one else, even though i've been known to ride in a beanie, tshirt and not much else. :D :cold: (figure the beanie will keep the contents of my skull in one place for the ambos to find and put back in...:bash:)
fortunately my mates with bikes know i'm insane, so they let me loose in whatever i'm wearing, as a thinking adult (hold your tuis) people can make them decisions for themselves, and not ayone else.

[BoristheBiter]

[QUOTE=Akzle;1130409732]is that, some kind of... objective humility... from BORIS?!

Someone hacked my account:innocent:

Just don't tell anyone I've a reputation as a troll to uphold.

[CookMySock]

I don't. On a trip, sometimes I'll wear jeans and approach shoes instead of boots and bike pants, especially if I don't want to deal with full gear when at my destination - example, paragliding. Approach shoes are pretty tough, but they'll probably rip off your feet in an crash.

Quick shop trip - whatever I'm wearing, plus gloves.

I will admit to being on the open road in shorts and tee-shirt and sneakers on a stinking hot day ONCE. It was fucking awesome actually, but one second of inattention will result in a massive penalty, so either don't, or be outrageously vigilant. If someone starts giving you shit on the road, this will feel really bad.

Helmet at all times bar none. Nil. Zip. Nada. Except maybe around the lawn, but not the concrete.

[PrincessBandit]

Bare minimum for me - helmet, gloves, jacket and boots. The boots because I'm too short to wear normal shoes when riding (even with my bike lowered); the rest because they saved my ass once. All my pillions have had to wear at least those things before they're allowed on the back with me.

[scumdog]

Going to work, get a WOF etc? - work pants & boots, gloves, helmet and a leather jacket.

Otherwise it's a leather jacket (mit der tassles naturally!), leather pants (leather chaps over them if going on a longer ride), lace-up boots and helmet.

Sometimes it's a full-face, sometimes a 'shorty', sometimes full gloves, other times fingerless gloves.


Mostly I'm sober too...

[Akzle]

Bare...for me... jacket....my ass...pillions have had to wear at least those things before they're allowed on the back with me.
there's a joke in there somewhere :D

[BoristheBiter]

there's a joke in there somewhere :D

She didn't say pants.
no one gets on my bike with out pants

[Brayden]

When I'm stuntin with ma boiz I don't weer a helmet coz it helps me 2 get better vision for higher wheelies and endoz are easier also I don't wear gloves either to get better feels for clutch ups

[BlightyBiker]

I've came off recently at only around 30 kph, and I tell you, even at that slow speed, my legs would have been right fucked had i not been wearing proper pants. The pants were properly ripped up. That really makes you wear all the gear every time!

I then learned a similar lesson off road.....:facepalm:

I've bought dragging jeans temporarily. Do you think they're still no match for proper pants. even for commuting? I've been eyeing up some nice pants recently but I was in no hurry to buy them because of the cost. I guess in terms of knee damage, proper pants are far better because dragging jeans have no support?

[PrincessBandit]

The dress jeans I was wearing were a fairly heavy duty denim which did get shredded across one thigh and ripped open down one seam. Amazingly I had no injuries to my legs apart from bruising on my left thigh and a tiny patch of gravel rash on the side of my right knee. Even with my proper bike jacket (armoured etc) it still got shredded open at the top of the shoulder on the side I broke my collar bone. Would I have been better off wearing my leather pants that day? Probably not in light of the few injuries I sustained in that accident; but depending on the trip I still wear normal jeans a lot. With helmet, jacket, gloves and boots...

[Retep5]

Full Gear for me 99%. There's always someone else on the road.

[caspernz]

Interesting choice. If your car is petrol injected it cannot tune itself until the oxygen sensor in the exhaust gets hot. This takes 5 or 10 kms of running, so you are really going thru the gas on your short car runs to the supermarket with a cold start. I have a little air cooled scooter for this job, and you guessed it, I don't wear full gear to go to the supermarket & back! (Scooter can carry quite a load of groceries incidently.) :laugh:

It's all about priorities though ain't it? Some of us need room for the girlfriend, the nanny and her hot friend...oh, and the beer of course...how can you fit all that into/onto a Nifty Fifty??:wings:

[sootie]

It's all about priorities though ain't it? Some of us need room for the girlfriend, the nanny and her hot friend...oh, and the beer of course...how can you fit all that into/onto a Nifty Fifty??:wings:
I thought we were talking about a quick trip to pick up a few supplies, not moving house!! :laugh:

[blairnz]

I mentally do a risk assessment and adjust for the ride, the weather, and what I want to do where I'm going.

If I go on the motorway, it's always full gear.

If it's the 8 minute ride to work along quiet roads then I'll just wear the 100% helmet, 100% gloves, 95% jacket, 80% boots, and 20% leather trousers. If I can get a nice pair of draggin jeans I'd probably wear them 90% of the time.

[jrandom]

The best gear is not falling off.

ATGATT types are, without exception, n00bs. (Some people stay n00bs all their life.)

I was pretty ATGATT focused for some years, but I grew out of it when I realised that my safety on the bike was within my control.

And there's nothing quite like riding in shorts and T-shirt on a hot sunny day. Protective gear is like wearing a condom - it makes the ride more boring, and isn't necessary if you're smart enough and self-controlled enough to manage the risks in other ways.

[jrandom]

The only injury I've ever received on a motorbike (getting my left thumb crushed by the handlebars against the tank when I highsided) couldn't have been prevented by any riding gear I've ever seen.

And I've been down the road on my arse a number of times in jeans and everything was fine.

And I've seen a guy with his thumb nearly completely torn off simply by landing awkwardly when he lowsided at the track. In full toothpaste tube gear, of course.

And the vast majority of guys I know or know of who've died in motorcycle crashes were, as far as I'm aware, ATGATT'd up when they died.

Wear the gear if you're not sure whether you're going to fall off or not. It'll help with the bumps and scrapes. But if you're not sure that you're not going to fall off, what are you doing riding a motorbike?

[kiwi cowboy]

Here is a trickier one for you. I am also a ATTGAT fan. The other day I had someone who wanted me to take them as a pillion - but they refused to wear the gear I had for them, instead wanting to ride with just jeans and with no jacket.

I explained to them the effect of coming off, even at low speed. I figure if they understand the risks it should be ok.

The still decided they didn't want to wear any gear. I found it a tough call, but I decided since I was the person actually riding the bike, that I had a great deal of responsibility of the pillions safety, and even though they accepted the risks that I could not. The net result is I didn't take them.

What would you do?

exactly the same as you did.

Having chucked my bike off a track in two races now made me realise how important gear is.

[caspernz]

I thought we were talking about a quick trip to pick up a few supplies, not moving house!! :laugh:

So beer and babes aren't supplies? But yep, fair call. Oh, and I have at times ridden with just jeans and jacket, but that was back in the day when 2 wheels were the sole form of transport.

[Akzle]

She didn't say pants.
no one gets on my bike with out pants

i will.

wuz that you in titirangi today getting a wheel up on the road after golf?

[BoristheBiter]

i will.

wuz that you in titirangi today getting a wheel up on the road after golf?

Na I only go wheel up off road, or is that wheels up:innocent:

[f2dz]

The best gear is not falling off.

ATGATT types are, without exception, n00bs. (Some people stay n00bs all their life.)

I was pretty ATGATT focused for some years, but I grew out of it when I realised that my safety on the bike was within my control.

And there's nothing quite like riding in shorts and T-shirt on a hot sunny day. Protective gear is like wearing a condom - it makes the ride more boring, and isn't necessary if you're smart enough and self-controlled enough to manage the risks in other ways.

I guess I'm a n00b!

What happens if a rabbit/cat/dog runs out onto the road, around a blind corner, you hit it, and come off?

Like the OP said, your body your choice at the end of the day. But just something to think about.

I'd admit I'm a n00b, and pretty new to riding, but I've already figured out some things can potentially slip out of your control. Not many things, but there are a few.

[jrandom]

I'd admit I'm a n00b, and pretty new to riding, but I've already figured out some things can potentially slip out of your control. Not many things, but there are a few.

Indeed. As you start to become more familiar with the things that can happen and the ways you can control outcomes, you might find yourself growing more comfortable with your own ability not to fall off, and letting that translate into less reliance on protective gear.

Or maybe not. I'm sure a lot of it comes down to personality and risk acceptance levels, that sort of thing.

I'm just sayin', me, I was obsessed with protective gear when I started riding motorbikes ten years ago but now I love going for a ride in summer in a T-shirt. YMMV.

[willytheekid]

I guess I'm a n00b!

What happens if a rabbit/cat/dog runs out onto the road, around a blind corner, you hit it, and come off?

Like the OP said, your body your choice at the end of the day. But just something to think about.

I'd admit I'm a n00b, and pretty new to riding, but I've already figured out some things can potentially slip out of your control. Not many things, but there are a few.

:niceone: On ya mate

Please ignore the blatant DRIBBLE that jrandom has posted!...10yrs SO CALLED riding experiance and he is promoting tee-shirts over protective gear to new riders? :oi-grr:
Irresponsible and pure stupidity!
...want proof, go into your local hospital...talk to the doctors and nurses that see the effects of road vs tee-shirt or jeans...bet ya they have some rather disturbing photos and storys to share...and one peice of advice!...."wear the gear!...unless you have a fettish for skin grafts!" :sick:

Ive crashed in Tee-shirt & ripped jeans before (15yrs old, on a dirt bike, riding on the road, and hit a dalmatian!)...result of that wee slide down the road, left lying in a pool of blood with half my butt check hanging off and ground the left side of my body(leg, arse and arm!)...to the bone!! :crazy:
...speed at point of impact...no more than 70kph!...speed of recovery....5 months of skin grafts and pain!(I still have the scars!...and a smaller arse:lol:)

DONT learn the hard way...ATGATT!...it will literally save your arse :pinch:

ps: jrandom...I thought better of you, a senior KB member advising learner riders that ATGATT types are "nOObs"?:oi-grr:...only one "nOOb" I can see posting here mate...and it sure aint f2dz!...only one week riding and he's already making better decisions than you!

[ducatilover]

I guess I'm a n00b!

What happens if a rabbit/cat/dog runs out onto the road, around a blind corner, you hit it, and come off?
.
I hit a rabbit with my knee going through a corner :lol: I had to boot a Fox Terrier out of the way once too. I've never actually run one over, would be an interesting thing to try...

[McFatty1000]

I hit a sparrow with my shoulder at around 80km/hr after I'd been riding maybe four weeks? Never thought something so small would disrupt my balance so much, and it gave a good punch, even though it got my armour. Would hate to hit something bigger..

[caspernz]

I can actually understand what 'jrandom' is trying to put across. The ATGATT approach won't save you if you ride like a fool. Similarly, with a bit of luck on your side and some experience you may have lengthy periods of getting away with the T-shirt approach.

In the real world, where we can't control all the variables, some choose to err on the side of caution and adopt the ATGATT approach. After 25 years on bikes, I'll admit to having ridden without all the kit in the early days on occasion. Nowadays? Simple, ATGATT works for me. That's my choice, and I certainly would recommend that to new riders :2thumbsup

[jrandom]

promoting tee-shirts over protective gear to new riders? :oi-grr:

Not quite. I'm promoting not falling off. If you don't fall off, the gear is irrelevant.

And, for that matter, if you're so worried about your safety, what the fuck are you doing on a motorbike? Get a Camry!

There's no way my words are going to make n00bs go out in a T-shirt. They're all too busy shitting themselves about falling off. Which is good, because we all do a bit of that when we start out, and then we either learn, and stop falling off (and maybe start thinking about riding in a T-shirt now and then) or don't learn, and spend the rest of our lives terrified of falling off - probably with good reason.

Folks, if you're terrified of falling off every time you get on a bike, it probably means you are in danger of falling off. Listen to your instincts and wear the gear, mmkay?

I don't want my words to be the cause of anyone ignoring that instinct. Cos the likelhood is that yes, you're gonna fall off. Particularly if you haven't yet. Or if you've only fallen off once or twice so far and still think that it wasn't your fault, or can't put your finger on something specific that you've changed that's going to stop it happening again.

What I'm saying is, once you've gone through that and come out the other side, scarred and wiser, the sunlit uplands of T-shirt-clad riding await the worthy.

:sunny:

[Maha]

Not quite. I'm promoting not falling off. If you don't fall off, the gear is irrelevant.

And, for that matter, if you're so worried about your safety, what the fuck are you doing on a motorbike? Get a Camry!

There's no way my words are going to make n00bs go out in a T-shirt. They're all too busy shitting themselves about falling off. Which is good, because we all do a bit of that when we start out, and then we either learn, and stop falling off (and maybe start thinking about riding in a T-shirt now and then) or don't learn, and spend the rest of our lives terrified of falling off - probably with good reason.

Folks, if you're terrified of falling off every time you get on a bike, it probably means you are in danger of falling off. Listen to your instincts and wear the gear, mmkay?

I don't want my words to be the cause of anyone ignoring that instinct. Cos the likelhood is that yes, you're gonna fall off. Particularly if you haven't yet. Or if you've only fallen off once or twice so far and still think that it wasn't your fault, or can't put your finger on something specific that you've changed that's going to stop it happening again.

What I'm saying is, once you've gone through that and come out the other side, scarred and wiser, the sunlit uplands of T-shirt-clad riding await the worthy.

:sunny:

A post most worthy Mr random.

[koz3lla]

As a relative noob having only been riding for 6 years I've just recently invested in a one piece Dainese suit and full on road boots.
Which I proceeded to have a graceful slide in at Ruapuna the following week.
Was only doing about 60km around the corner and I can only imagine how much more it might have hurt should I not have been wearing it along with my full cuff gloves (one of which is stuffed now btw).

I ride everyday, comes with not having a car, and I am AGATT!! Even if I'm just off to the supermarket for hashbrowns on a Sunday morning.
I've never come off on the road but at least if I do I'll have all my gear on.
And we all know what Murphys law is like, the one day you don't wear it will be the day you get T-boned, or worse.

[jrandom]

I proceeded to have a graceful slide in at Ruapuna.

Well, yes, one doesn't ride at the track without gear.


And we all know what Murphys law is like, the one day you don't wear it will be the day you get T-boned, or worse.

Yep, the fact that you see things in that light indicates that you should indeed still be wearing gear all the time.

[Berries]

Please ignore the blatant DRIBBLE that jrandom has posted!.
S'funny. Most of the time I think jrandom is a twat from what he posts, but in this thread I find myself agreeing with him almost absolutely. if you think you are going to be falling off then seriously, get a car and save yourself the pain and grief, and save me from increased ACC levies at the same time.

[Drew]

Jrandom is full of shit. He would have suggested a Volvo to the ATGATT scardy cats, if he knew anything.

[mossy1200]

Lets face it you dont want to look like a scooter owner when you stop.

This is why I wear all my leathers when I ride.

[willytheekid]

S'funny. Most of the time I think jrandom is a twat from what he posts, but in this thread I find myself agreeing with him almost absolutely. if you think you are going to be falling off then seriously, get a car and save yourself the pain and grief, and save me from increased ACC levies at the same time.

:scratch:...where did I imply that I think I'm going to be falling off?.(I did alot of that 30yrs ago when I started riding...didn't really want to continue the habit)

And how hard is it to figure out ATGATT is common sense?
...it doesn't matter how great a rider you think are...it doesn't make the other road users any better drivers!

...and good gear can be the difference between walking away from an incident...or being carried away!

And its us ATGATT guys who ARE already saving motorcyclists ACC levies by being prepared for the possible dangers...not ignorant of them.

[jrandom]

Jrandom is full of shit. He would have suggested a Volvo to the ATGATT scardy cats, if he knew anything.

Nawww, new Toyotas are as safe as it gets. The only point of difference these days with Volvos is that they're luxury cars.

[jrandom]

where did I imply that I think I'm going to be falling off?

Round about here:


ATGATT is common sense

:sunny:

[caseye]

"Ride your own ride" been something I've told newbies since, forever.
I ride with the usual stuff, helmet, jacket,gloves, motorbike riding boots.
If I'm commuting I usually wear me Rhino's ( Kevlar lined heavy denim trou) and sometimes, usually summertime I will use my old cordura jacket.
If I'm going outa town I put on me leather trou to go with my now matching leather jacket ( cheers again Quasi)
I don't anticipate putting myself off the road, just taking what responsibility I can for myself and allowing that if I do get taken out and manage to avoid any of those sudden deceleration impacts that there's a good chance I'll be having to go buy some more gear.
Not a coffin or worse a long term stay in the hospital.
To me it is inconvenient to have to suit up, even to go down the road, but the only times I haven't have been the times I should have, so to make sure I get as much bang for my safety gear buck as I can I take the time and put up with the heat and the moaning ( yeah, I grumble at myself) and I ride knowing I'm doing what I can to mitigate any unforeseen circumstance.
For me it's a similar thing to taking on a 90 degree corner over a brow at speed and not knowing which way the road goes, I ease off the throttle long enough to see which way it goes and then apply more to go through nice and clean, no fuss, no drama.
JR, I understand what you are saying and I'd not try to tell you what to wear or not, nor would I say I told you so if it it turned to custard, but there are not that many riders out there who have and continue to do what you are advocating who have come all the way through without having a bad experience of one sort or another.
Just spent the last week in Oz, I saw a hell of a lot more bike riders using sensible gear this time around than ever I've seen there before,( Once a year every year for the last 20 yrs) seems the message is getting home, their roads are predominantly concrete and ribbed,that really does take the bark off quick.

[Drew]

Nawww, new Toyotas are as safe as it gets. The only point of difference these days with Volvos is that they're luxury cars.
Watch out for the doors catching fire though.

Toyota Recalls 7.4 Million Vehicles For Faulty Power-Window Switch (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/10/toyota-recalls-millions-vehicles_n_1953354.html)

[jrandom]

Watch out for the doors catching fire though.

True, I'd forgotten about that. I expect Toyota forums around the world are currently ablaze with the ATGATT question, too.

<img src="http://i45.tinypic.com/waqag5.jpg"/>

[scumdog]

S'funny. Most of the time I think jrandom is a twat from what he posts, but in this thread I find myself agreeing with him almost absolutely. if you think you are going to be falling off then seriously, get a car and save yourself the pain and grief, and save me from increased ACC levies at the same time.

Zactly:niceone:

[Ocean1]

S'funny. Most of the time I think jrandom is a twat from what he posts, but in this thread I find myself agreeing with him almost absolutely.

Nah, he's just parroting the currently fashionable biker behavioural safety dogma.

It suggests that if you just believe hard enough and try hard enough then you’d be perfectly safe.

Cold, hard statistical facts suggest otherwise. I don’t give a flying fuck how good you are, if you ride long enough you’ll get tagged eventually.

I can only suggest the one true faith click their collective heels together and disappear up their own solipsistic arsehole.

[Berries]

:scratch:...where did I imply that I think I'm going to be falling off?.
Sorry, it was the royal you, not you personally.


And how hard is it to figure out ATGATT is common sense?
Not riding a bike is the common sense position if you are that concerned about safety.


And its us ATGATT guys who ARE already saving motorcyclists ACC levies by being prepared for the possible dangers...not ignorant of them.
No. First and foremost it is the people who don't crash who are saving money. What gear you are wearing comes way down the list.


I don’t give a flying fuck how good you are, if you ride long enough you’ll get tagged eventually.
If that really was true, who would ride a bike? I certainly wouldn't if there was some kind of guarantee of getting hurt.

[jrandom]

I don’t give a flying fuck how good you are, if you ride long enough you’ll get tagged eventually.

http://www.toyota.co.nz/great-offers (http://www.toyota.co.nz/GreatOffers/Main%2BOffer%2BSummary&rct=j&q=toyota+nz)

That's just simply not true, man. It's a false statement. If you can get up one day and go to bed again without falling off your bike, there's no reason not to do it every day of your life.

[caseye]

Berries, seriously, how many riders do you know who have "never" fallen off their bikes, anywhere?
I'm over 50, been riding since I got my licence at 19, hadn't ever taken a tumble on the road, until 3 years ago. Lucky for me I was wearing all the usual gear. Didn't expect it to happen, it did. I fell off, picked up bike and pride, inspected both, decided the bike was OK and I was terminally in need of anesthetic.
It was my wife's 2fiddy cruiser, I'd stopped on the side of the road, executed, well attempted, a 180 degree turn to head back to her and dropped the steering too far into a cambered road and simply fell off over to the side protecting the bike with my body, no damage to it.
Lesson learned though, less lock, more throttle don't f..k about on open roads.
Point though, we all know it can happen, if it doesn't, well and good, but if it does, surely having what you are prepared to take with you, on, is better than not??? and in most case it is the difference between badly grazed or broken and or getting off much lighter.
I don't know anyone else who rides, who has never fallen off, not one.Lost a couple of mates to the right wrist syndrome, none to cagers, sad but true.

[jrandom]

I'm over 50, been riding since I got my licence at 19, hadn't ever taken a tumble on the road, until 3 years ago. *tried to do a U-turn and fell off*

Dude, I hate to say it, but you're the classic example of someone who's been riding a long time and just stayed a n00b throughout.

[mossy1200]

Dude, I hate to say it, but you're the classic example of someone who's been riding a long time and just stayed a n00b throughout.

47years without a hitch then a drop during a U turn.
If all n00bs had that record our insurance costs and acc levies would be low.

I low sided in a Boy racer diesel patch in 1989. Bike hit the ground but I was left standing beside it. Does that count?

[Ocean1]

That's just simply not true, man. It's a false statement.

Not playing games with you, dude, it's perfectly true and you know it. If there's the slightest chance an event might occur then a long enough iteration makes that chance a certainty. If you're a novice it'll take fewer miles before you chuck it away. If you're a certifiably paranoid riding legend it'll take more.


If you can get up one day and go to bed again without falling off your bike, there's no reason not to do it every day of your life.

You can certainly try to make that so every day. How long you succeed depends on how hard you try, how well you manage your machine and how many days you ride.

Get your own take on life vs non-life, you don't do Katman any better than the original.

[jrandom]

If all n00bs had that record our insurance costs and acc levies would be low.

For sure, but unfortunately with n00bs the statistical-likelihood-to-bin thing does apply. Therefore you're inevitably going to get some at one end of the bell curve who've only binned once in the last 30 years, etc.

[jrandom]

Get your own take on life vs non-life, you don't do Katman any better than the original.

Agreeing with someone else doesn't make a position less valid, man. You sound kinda upset, this sort of fallacious dismissal isn't your usual style.

[Ocean1]

Agreeing with someone else doesn't make a position less valid, man.

I'm not arguing positions, just facts.


You sound kinda upset, this sort of fallacious dismissal isn't your usual style.

Upset? Not. I'd be disapointed if your "position" genuinely was an indication of your world-view.

I'd be slightly miffed if your "position" in any way led you to believe you have the right to dictate anyone else's.

If you actually atempted to dictate terms regarding said "positions", then I'd be upset.

[jrandom]

I'm not arguing positions, just facts.

We should probably carefully define what we actually disagree with. I think it's just a matter of position on a scale. Obviously the probability of falling off a motorbike is non zero. My position is that it can be extended out to be improbable enough that one could reasonably expect not to fall off in any given lifetime. Your position is that it can be extended, but not quite that far, and that the average lifespan would be expected to contain one or more bins.

Perhaps it's not really enough of a difference to argue about. I don't think there's any way of getting enough data to construct any sort of proof. We're just going off gut instinct.

Edit: And, hey, I've binned on the road or track 15 times the last I counted. This is only a theoretical position, partially based on what I've learned from binning.

[Ocean1]

Perhaps it's not really enough of a difference to argue about. I don't think there's any way of getting enough data to construct any sort of proof. We're just going off gut instinct.

No, no, there's a lot more hard data around than this wee snippet:


I've binned on the road or track 15 times the last I counted.


This is only a theoretical position, partially based on what I've learned from binning.

Theories like that always seem to support our very deepest wishes, eh?

[Berries]

Berries, seriously, how many riders do you know who have "never" fallen off their bikes, anywhere?
Well, I have fallen off three times in 25ish years, no, make that four after the latest petrol station incident. No forwards movement at the time in any of them though so I am not sure you can call them crashes. Of the couple of regular riders I do know one has had a big smash. And I have some mates who also happen to have bikes but I have never ridden with them and have never asked that question. Never really been interested.

I am amazed that I survived my early riding days unscathed, three friends didn’t. One slid off in town in to the path of a truck and died. One wheelied off the road in to a tree and died, and another one which was particularly traumatic for my family was when a mate went between a car and horse float it was towing at high speed and died. I was young and stupid but luckily I eventually grew up. Then I got a job where I had to start looking at some of these fatal crashes and time and time again I saw errors that don’t matter quite so much when you are on four wheels surrounded by metal but on a bike they will kill you just like that. At some point I made the decision to do my best not to become a statistic.

I just don’t buy in to this fatalistic approach that having a crash is inevitable. Why should it be? Are we all so crap at riding? Why would anybody do something that is guaranteed to hurt you when you don’t know how much pain will be involved? Some people seem to treat getting on the bike like Russian roulette. If that is the way you think (not you personally) then I firmly believe you are half way to having a crash anyway. And will then be able to pass it off as inevitable and get on the bike again without taking a good look at what really played a big part in the crash happening.

Shit happens, I’m not saying that it doesn’t, people get struck by lightning after all. But the majority of bike crashes could have been prevented if the rider had been on it, for want of a better term. Too often ‘we’ aren’t. That is the main factor in the crash whatever the cause, not the inevitable hand of fate waiting to flick you off on the next wet corner or making a car not give way to you at an intersection. IMHO.

[caseye]

Always been of the opinion that you make your own luck and that you are the master of your own destiny and lived by that.
I'm still here.
I don't approach my bike with fear or trepidation, I actually like riding it and soon will be doing so again and enjoying it I can assure you.
Always thought that if I do as much as I can to make sure I will be OK, then the odds are better stacked for me, as a motorcyclist that is.
The last thing I would have done if I really thought that being involved in a crash was inevitable is buy my wife a bike to learn on.
I did, she did and was then brought down by a coil over shock spring that was rolling broadside towards her in the dark, almost 1 year to the day after she had started riding.
Two years later, she has a slightly bigger bike and is still learning what her machine and her can do and is loving it, as I knew she would.
jr, some people are just that, "noobs' for all time, I'd object, but there's no point, you got your one in and it's not going to matter what I say now.
Until recently I used use my bike for work 5 days a week and rode as much as I could on weekends, I've travelled the length of the North Island with others and on my own, I've pulled all of my bikes apart and made them better for me and them, I enjoy my bikes and will have one forever.
Noobs rule I say.

[Ocean1]

I just don’t buy in to this fatalistic approach that having a crash is inevitable.

You refering to my comments? It's not much like what I said.

I think there's at least two point of view being occasionally poorly expressed, here. The first seems to be that, since most accidents have a human error component then if we eliminate that from our riding we should be all good.

The second is simply stating that statistically, no matter how hard they try, (and let's face it, you gota assume that with the concequences such as they are most people are trying pretty hard) eventually the holes in the cheese will all line up, you're attention will be less than perfect or something completely unforseen will intefere in the real world and you'll sucumb to an undesirable event.

I don't think the two are irreconcilable, they're both perfectly valid observations. I think only a fool would ride believing he had the power to avoid every accident. Only a fool would claim he had no control over his fate.

[Berries]

You refering to my comments?
Nah, it was a general comment in response to some of the views I read on here that we are all going to crash at some point simply because we are on two wheels. I don't agree, if I did I would give it up.

[Nasty]

Read lots of this thread .. and a perspective I go with is:

The gear will not save you (people die wearing full gear the impact from a crash can have extreme ability to ensure that your insides get a little mushy) but if you do survive (most the time people do) it will aid recovery.

I generally wear ATGATT but my gear includes draggins ... I wore those for the first year of riding as they were the best fitting gear I could find.

[Katman]

It suggests that if you just believe hard enough and try hard enough then you’d be perfectly safe.

Cold, hard statistical facts suggest otherwise.


Perhaps many of us are just not trying hard enough.

[caspernz]

I think there's at least two point of view being occasionally poorly expressed, here. The first seems to be that, since most accidents have a human error component then if we eliminate that from our riding we should be all good.

The second is simply stating that statistically, no matter how hard they try, (and let's face it, you gota assume that with the concequences such as they are most people are trying pretty hard) eventually the holes in the cheese will all line up, you're attention will be less than perfect or something completely unforseen will intefere in the real world and you'll sucumb to an undesirable event.

I don't think the two are irreconcilable, they're both perfectly valid observations. I think only a fool would ride believing he had the power to avoid every accident. Only a fool would claim he had no control over his fate.

Yep, that's my outlook. I'm not afraid of falling off my bike, or even live in fear of being involved in an unfortunate set of coincidences...but just in case...the gear will minimise the damage to the body.
And if all else fails, at least St Peter will be able to comment on my stylish gear :2thumbsup

[Drew]

I really hate agreeing with both Jrandom and Katman, so I have a special hatred for all the cunts saying that crashing is a certainty!

If riding at all can be achieved without a crash, then statistically it is perfectly possible, to be that way without deviation.

Most people who ride have crashed a bike, but as that Katareshole so persistently correctly points out, nearly every one of them was avoidable had the rider done some stuff better. Bikers are fuckin awesome at seeing their own faults too, so I still don't know why that isn't accepted.

The one in a million out of nowhere, even stationary you were gonna get hit and crash, crash, is something I really don't think should even be discussed. If you wanna concentrate on that, get a VOLVO. Camry's are shit!

[FJRider]

I really hate agreeing with both Jrandom and Katman, so I have a special hatred for all the cunts saying that crashing is a certainty!

If riding at all can be achieved without a crash, then statistically it is perfectly possible, to be that way without deviation.

Most people who ride have crashed a bike, but as that Katareshole so persistently correctly points out, nearly every one of them was avoidable had the rider done some stuff better. Bikers are fuckin awesome at seeing their own faults too, so I still don't know why that isn't accepted.

The one in a million out of nowhere, even stationary you were gonna get hit and crash, crash, is something I really don't think should even be discussed. If you wanna concentrate on that, get a VOLVO. Camry's are shit!

Obviously ... those that can't/won't/don't crash ... will never wear safety gear (of any kind) ... because they don't NEED it :niceone:

Those that DO wear it ... KNOW they MAY crash .... at some time ... maybe :cool:



Hands up those that wear safety gear ... :msn-wink:






I thought so ... :lol:

[MystikEagle]

Obviously ... those that can't/won't/don't crash ... will never wear safety gear (of any kind) ... because they don't NEED it :niceone:

Those that DO wear it ... KNOW they MAY crash .... at some time ... maybe :cool:



Hands up those that wear safety gear ... :msn-wink:






I thought so ... :lol:


Well said!

[@ndy]

Back in the days when I was younger me and my mates used to laugh at ATGATT riders, we never used any riding gear and went at average of 80-90km/hr on modified scooters and small Aprilia bikes (back in Italy)... I guess we thought we were too good and too cool for that.
After multiple stitches, glued skin from tarmac rush (apparently t-shirts are not as protective as one might think) and double crowns on my front teeth from a close encounter with WW Polo bonnet :eek5: I reconsidered the use of protective gear even for short daily rides.
Some of my mates were not so lucky and didn't have a chance to reconsider.

So I think the more gear you wear, the more skin you save ... whatever you are Doctor Rossi or the new guy on a 250.

[Drew]

Obviously ... those that can't/won't/don't crash ... will never wear safety gear (of any kind) ... because they don't NEED it :niceone:

Those that DO wear it ... KNOW they MAY crash .... at some time ... maybe :cool:



Hands up those that wear safety gear ... :msn-wink:






I thought so ... :lol:


Well said!Oh, so people wearing what is convenient to them, just in case. That means they plan on crashing?

Use your fuckin heads.

[Fast Eddie]

And then I watch videos of legends on real bikes tearing around the isle of man in leather skull gaps and goggles. thems were men.

[Fast Eddie]

Oh, so people wearing what is convenient to them, just in case. That means they plan on crashing?

Use your fuckin heads.

its solid logic bro, its the very reason I ride in shorts and t-shirt, I plan on NOT crashing, and I wear the appropriate gear to ensure that. Sometimes no shirt at all if I really really don't wanna crash

[Berries]

The whole topic is circuitous. There are those who always wear ATGATT, those who never wear ATG and those who sometimes wear ATGATT, which isn't actually ATGATT is it but ATGSOTH, or SOTGATT or even SOTGSOTT. For arguments sake I will call it IWWWIWSGF, or I Will Wear What I Want So Get Fucked. Some people are happy being in the group that they are, and couldn't really care less what group other people are in. Then there are others who do care what others wear and these fall in to two camps. Those who might shake their head slightly when they see someone who is wearing a level below what that person considers a minimumn, and then those who have to shout about it.

If we knew for certain that we were not going to crash we could all just wear Ray Bans. We don't. So we all wear a standard of dress that meets the legal requirements and our own sense of risk perception for the particular ride, weather, conditions, ability. The thing that people often overlook is that ATGATT is just one point on that sliding scale of risk management, and it is not at the top. The bottom point on the scale is the legal minimum of the helmet, but then it goes up and there are several steps beyond ATGATT that will reduce the risk of injury in a crash if you still accept the risk of riding a bike. I feel like a graph is coming on.

[Drew]

its solid logic bro, its the very reason I ride in shorts and t-shirt, I plan on NOT crashing, and I wear the appropriate gear to ensure that. Sometimes no shirt at all if I really really don't wanna crashDon't twist my words Kai.

I didn't imply that at all. I merely said that wearing the gear, is not planning on falling off.

[FJRider]

Don't twist my words Kai.

I didn't imply that at all. I merely said that wearing the gear, is not planning on falling off.

You don't mind twisting mine ... :lol:

Wearing the gear is a form of "Risk management" ... the risk is ALWAYS there. Wearing the gear won't (always) stop you getting hurt. Maybe it will help lessen the injuries you suffer. Maybe it wont.

But wearing the gear is ... planning to not get as badly hurt as you might, without the gear ... is that the same thing ... ???

[Fast Eddie]

Don't twist my words Kai.

I didn't imply that at all. I merely said that wearing the gear, is not planning on falling off.

nah I wasn't twisting your words. That was an independent statement all together, from me alone :) I'm not a fan of ATGATT, and I hate HI Viz vests, and having to have lights on all the time by law and so on and so on.. not a fan at all

[Fast Eddie]

..we could all just wear Ray Bans. We don't.

I do.......

[FJRider]

its solid logic bro, its the very reason I ride in shorts and t-shirt, I plan on NOT crashing, and I wear the appropriate gear to ensure that. Sometimes no shirt at all if I really really don't wanna crash

It does take commitment ... to plan to crash.

I never plan to crash.

But the basic safety gear I do wear.

[Drew]

You don't mind twisting mine ... :lol:

Wearing the gear is a form of "Risk management" ... the risk is ALWAYS there. Wearing the gear won't (always) stop you getting hurt. Maybe it will help lessen the injuries you suffer. Maybe it wont.

But wearing the gear is ... planning to not get as badly hurt as you might, without the gear ... is that the same thing ... ???I didn't twist anything. You made sarcastic inuendo, I replied as succinctly as I could.

I'm all for people making their own decisions on risk management. I'm against hypocrites being judgmental, and suggesting anyone else is doing it wrong.

The reason I'm vocal about it, is that there is something fundamentally more simple that'll save bikers from getting hurt. Training. We should have bike control, should be able to see situations turning to shit, should not panic and ride straight ahead should we think we've got it wrong.

Instead, fuckwits are trying to get us to wear protective gear, to prepare for crashes WE SHOULDN'T FUCKING BE HAVING!!!!

The gear is important, but it's down my list compared to the riders using their thick cunting skulls.

Hadn't used "cunt" and felt it should be there some place...you cunts. Ohhh, twice even!

[FJRider]

Instead, fuckwits are trying to get us to wear protective gear, to prepare for crashes WE SHOULDN'T FUCKING BE HAVING!!!!

The gear is important, but it's down my list compared to the riders using their thick cunting skulls.



The thing is ... many accidents bikers are involved in while riding ... were the result of people and factors ... that they had no control of (or warning of). Silly decisions made by silly people, for silly reasons. Unless you can be absolutely sure you won't find such a person in your travels ... I might suggest a change in your priorities ...

There might be a Kenworth truck out there ... that you will run into/get run over by.

Maybe.

[Berries]

The thing is ... many accidents bikers are involved in while riding ... were the result of people and factors ... that they had no control of (or warning of). Silly decisions made by silly people, for silly reasons. Unless you can be absolutely sure you won't find such a person in your travels ... I might suggest a change in your priorities ...
Yeah, get a car Drew you pussy.

[Drew]

The thing is ... many accidents bikers are involved in while riding ... were the result of people and factors ... that they had no control of (or warning of). Silly decisions made by silly people, for silly reasons. Unless you can be absolutely sure you won't find such a person in your travels ... I might suggest a change in your priorities ...

There might be a Kenworth truck out there ... that you will run into/get run over by.

Maybe.There are occassional influences outside our control. We can nearly ALWAYS control our reactions to them, and avoid catastrophy.

I understand 'maybe', now if only others would try and understand, and learn what they can control ABSOLUTELY.

[FJRider]

There are occassional influences outside our control. We can nearly ALWAYS control our reactions to them, and avoid catastrophy.

I understand 'maybe', now if only others would try and understand, and learn what they can control ABSOLUTELY.

Nearly ........


Maybe ........

as in ...

I nearly made it ... and ... Maybe next time they'll see me ...

There is nothing so absolute as ... MAYBE ... :lol:

[Drew]

Nearly ........


Maybe ........

as in ...

I nearly made it ... and ... Maybe next time they'll see me ...

There is nothing so absolute as ... MAYBE ... :lol:This argument falls short, if you wont bring new material to the table. Or at least do what I'm doing, and steal shit that Kathman has said, then try to present it without the antagonism.

Don't focus on the maybes, it's instant defeat. Look up the serenity prayer, it's quite clever.

[Katman]

Or at least do what I'm doing, and steal shit that Kathman has said,

Don't worry, I running a tab for you.

[caspernz]

This argument falls short, if you wont bring new material to the table. Or at least do what I'm doing, and steal shit that Kathman has said, then try to present it without the antagonism.

Don't focus on the maybes, it's instant defeat. Look up the serenity prayer, it's quite clever.

Haha, you sound like you're getting tongue tied....:2thumbsup

The funny thing is that you're on the right (Katman approved no doubt) track, this being the mindset that almost all situations we find ourselves in, we can avoid them turning to custard by responding correctly. The gear is worn for the very rare occasion when this approach fails...oh, and to keep warm, look stylish etc.

But this is too much like being at work, because I teach this stuff to new fuel tanker drivers. Officially it's referred to as the SMITHS driving system, which in essence is stuff that you would work out for yourself with enough time on the road. Ironically it seems some bike riders make good tanker drivers, by virtue of being more 'situationally aware' on the road.

BTW. The most common failings are quite similar amongst all vehicle operator groups, too fast for the conditions, following too close, and the most important one...not leaving yourself an out, an escape route as a situation turns to custard. Basic stuff....:banana:

[FJRider]

BTW. The most common failings are quite similar amongst all vehicle operator groups, too fast for the conditions, following too close, and the most important one...not leaving yourself an out, an escape route as a situation turns to custard. Basic stuff....:banana:

And most common .... all of the above, while still traveling under the speed limit.

[caspernz]

And most common .... all of the above, while still traveling under the speed limit.

Of course, forgive me for leaving out the obvious...well, to most of us I'd hope??:facepalm:

[Drew]

Don't worry, I running a tab for you.For the number of things I can turn your name into? Krashfan.

[Drew]

And most common .... all of the above, while still traveling under the speed limit.


Of course, forgive me for leaving out the obvious...well, to most of us I'd hope??:facepalm:The definition of speed, says nothing of limits.

But I suspect it would be more common that people understood the statement. "Speed was a factor". To mean exceeding the limit at the time.

[FJRider]

The definition of speed, says nothing of limits.

But I suspect it would be more common that people understood the statement. "Speed was a factor". To mean exceeding the limit at the time.

maybe ...


But I am of the belief ... that for far too many people ... the belief that under the speed limit is safe.

Therefore ... it only becomes a factor when they're OVER the limit.

[Autech]

All. What good is that $300 jacket when it's hanging in the shed?

[Berries]

Who would buy a jacket and then not wear it?

[Ocean1]

Who would buy a jacket and then not wear it?

You've not met the wife, then?

[Drew]

Who would buy a jacket and then not wear it?
I've got three or four jackets. Can't wear them all, and don't feel the need to wear any of them sometimes.