Vehicle license reform. Danger and opportunity for bikers

[davereid]

http://www.transport.govt.nz/ourwork/Land/vehiclelicensingreformconsultation/

While the mainstream media is reporting widely on the WOF aspects of this reform, the actual "meat" is around vehicle licensing or "rego".

A brief look at the document shows a few common factors - a desire to impose demerits at every possible chance, the introduction of "late fees", and the replacement of the label with ANPR.

Putting rego on fuel is dismissed early in the document with some fairly dodgy sums, that I will be carefully going through.

Its claimed that putting rego on fuel would put petrol up by 24c/litre. We did these sums pretty carefully during the bikeoi and came up with under half that.

Its also claimed that thos would have a negative effect on the economy. That of course is rubbish, as assuming licence fees dont change, the net effect is the same.

Except of course no late fees, penalties, unpaid licence fees, collection and admin costs...

The document also discusses a future plan for ACC that involves charging bad drivers or unsfe vehicles penalty rates. One can only guess where an unstable, excessively powerful, air bag free, crumple zone free, motor vehicle might sit in that list.

Do we have any fight left, or will we just be letting things go ?

[MSTRS]

Do we have any fight left, or will we just be letting things go ?

Apathy rulz, innit.

[Ocean1]

Yeah, non-compliance is currently limited to the criminal class, let's make it everyone!

And "consultation" isn't about wining or losing when it comes to policy implimentation, it's just another box to tick. Make enough noise and we might get on the 6 Oclock news but short of armed insurrection we won't be changing any proposals.

Sickening.

[caseye]

Give me a good reason and I'll make an effort, so far from what I've read, we're wasting our time trying to stop govt doing anything they want simply because last time we didn't do as we'd promised. Come back! ( in anything like realistic numbers) we had those polies worried to hell and gone the first time we went to Welly, we promised to keep our foot on their throats, but failed to do so and could not get our apathetic mongrel riders to do it again and we got laughed out of town.
As a body of people who all ride motorcycles here in just KB land we can't even agree which is the best and fairest way to apply ACC rego fees.
On petrol across the board at $0.12 cents per litre would do me fine, make farmers, boaties and recreational off road motorised vehicle owners cry foul, But hey fuck them, it's time they paid the ACC part of their non existent rego too.
So, yeah, if it looked like it'd fly, I'd ride again.

[Paul in NZ]

Yes - this is important to me... These people are over paid cunts sticking the boot in again and again...

I don't want to see affordable transport which can be used safely made unaffordable by the nanny state egged on by the fucking AA and the motor industry...

The implications for anyone that likes classic vehicles or values their Mums old Corolla is horrendous...

There is a serious recession going on - the policies of successive governments have created a shed load of part time low wage jobs and shit all else. Look around you - most people are struggling to pay the existing rego/wof costs let alone upgrade to a newer car...

By all means penalize repeated bad driving but the rest is bollocks

[Bassmatt]

http://www.transport.govt.nz/ourwork/Land/vehiclelicensingreformconsultation/
The document also discusses a future plan for ACC that involves charging bad drivers or unsfe vehicles penalty rates. One can only guess where an unstable, excessively powerful, air bag free, crumple zone free, motor vehicle might sit in that list.

Do we have any fight left, or will we just be letting things go ?

I think that in the current political climate, where most people seem to think hungry kids should stay hungry cos "why should my taxes pay for some kids food because they have shit parents," that if they take this approach WE ARE FUCKED!
All they will have to do is frame the argument along those same lines ie why should your taxes/acc levies subsidise those dangerous bikers and throw up some dodgy numbers and half the public will be baying for our blood.

[Katman]

All they will have to do is frame the argument along those same lines ie why should your taxes/acc levies subsidise those dangerous bikers and throw up some dodgy numbers and half the public will be baying for our blood.

And judging by the displays by a prominent number of lunatics on two wheels they could probably be forgiven for thinking that they have a point.

[Fast Eddie]

And judging by the displays by a prominent number of lunatics on two wheels they could probably be forgiven for thinking that they have a point.

didn't a bunch of pedestrians get mowed down and one killed in chch by some cars?

f*ckn lunatics those car drivers..

[Katman]

didn't a bunch of pedestrians get mowed down and one killed in chch by some cars?

f*ckn lunatics those car drivers..

That's right.

And look at the negative impact that those lunatic car drivers have had on the rest of the similarly aged car enthusiasts.

[CookMySock]

Do we have any fight left, or will we just be letting things go ?Why do you think you are ever going to beat these people are their own game? You are completely pissing in the wind with that! Scream, jump up and down and cut your wrists all you like, and they are just going to ignore you and keep putting the price up.

The ONLY way you are going fuck them over is to completely remove their teeth, and that has to be done in a court of law. Then any agency can arbitrarily pull rules out of its arse as much as it likes and they aren't worth a knob of goats poo.

All you are doing here is exercising your (government given) rights(sic) to publicly object - which in the end amounts to consent, where you should be exercising your (god given) rights to walk, which is QUITE the opposite to consent.

Think about it.

[Conquiztador]

Yep. I am in.

Time for a strategy me thinks. Ideas?

[Paul in NZ]

Actually a small group can change things. Look at how much progress Gay folks have made yet when they started they were beaten up and chucked out of political party meetings etc...

It requires consistency and perseverance however and a strong belief in what you are doing..

I'm not sure that exists in this case.

[Katman]

It requires consistency and perseverance however and a strong belief in what you are doing..


...and a thick skinned forehead.

:brick:

[Jantar]

Actually a small group can change things. Look at how much progress Gay folks have made yet when they started they were beaten up and chucked out of political party meetings etc...

It requires consistency and perseverance however and a strong belief in what you are doing..

I'm not sure that exists in this case.

They also had a gay prime minister.

Maybe we need a motorcycling prime minister.

[Maha]

The white flag was offered up long ago and has been walked over many times ever since.....:whocares:
I for one, will never waste one more minute of my time to any demonstration/protest where motorcycling is concerned...:done:

[Conquiztador]

The white was offered up long ago and has been walked over many times ever since.....:whocares:
I for one, will never waste one more minute of my time to anything where motorcycling is conerned, other than......riding...:done:

I see your cunning plan... While others do all the work and spend time securing the future for all bikers, you will ride and reap the benefits... I am worried that this approach could spread and be considered a good win/win individual option! Could you therefore please keep this to your self just in case there are others that would have a tendency to also take this un-ethical approch. :cool:

[oneofsix]

And judging by the displays by a prominent number of lunatics on two wheels they could probably be forgiven for thinking that they have a point.

There are as many if not more lunatics on four wheelies, after all some of the four wheeled lunatics also ride on two. But it is mean of you to pick on cyclists where they can't defend themselves :laugh:


I think that in the current political climate, where most people seem to think hungry kids should stay hungry cos "why should my taxes pay for some kids food because they have shit parents," that if they take this approach WE ARE FUCKED!
All they will have to do is frame the argument along those same lines ie why should your taxes/acc levies subsidise those dangerous bikers and throw up some dodgy numbers and half the public will be baying for our blood.

You have been listening to too many of the rowdy, worried greedies. Like alot of people you are being sucked in by their noise. Not all think that way, look at the occupy movement, but the government is doing a good job, as usual, of splitting the focus.


Actually a small group can change things. Look at how much progress Gay folks have made yet when they started they were beaten up and chucked out of political party meetings etc...

It requires consistency and perseverance however and a strong belief in what you are doing..

I'm not sure that exists in this case.

Agreed.


Why do you think you are ever going to beat these people are their own game? You are completely pissing in the wind with that! Scream, jump up and down and cut your wrists all you like, and they are just going to ignore you and keep putting the price up.

The ONLY way you are going fuck them over is to completely remove their teeth, and that has to be done in a court of law. Then any agency can arbitrarily pull rules out of its arse as much as it likes and they aren't worth a knob of goats poo.

All you are doing here is exercising your (government given) rights(sic) to publicly object - which in the end amounts to consent, where you should be exercising your (god given) rights to walk, which is QUITE the opposite to consent.

Think about it.

Me thinks you need to do some thinking and some learning of history. No government willingly gave those rights, they were won by the people, just like the gays, the Hikoi of Dame Cooper, votes for woman, votes for non-land owning whites (Maori's had the vote before them even if they weren't allowed in the pubs).


The white was offered up long ago and has been walked over many times ever since.....:whocares:
I for one, will never waste one more minute of my time to anything where motorcycling is conerned, other than......riding...:done:

I call :bs: on that Maha. Posting on KB on a motorcycling related subject is motorcycling concerned but isn't riding :laugh:

[G4L4XY]

I think having two bikes should = not paying the rego for two bikes :) ....even though I don't have two bikes yet.

If the rego cost was included in fuel would that mean we pay more or less. Some people have bikes just sitting in their garage collecting dust, so allgood for them. For the rest of us and I for one use my bike all the time so it might not work out so well for us.

[Maha]

I see your cunning plan... While others do all the work and spend time securing the future for all bikers, you will ride and reap the benefits... I am worried that this approach could spread and be considered a good win/win individual option! Could you therefore please keep this to your self just in case there are others that would have a tendency to also take this un-ethical approch. :cool:

The reality is (and always will be) is that, everytime it is perceived that motorcyclist are getting a raw deal, a bleat thread is started...words/words and more words.:yawn:

09' was the climactic point, but from then on.....interest wained dramatically.
The topic may be worth a discussion at the very least, but nothing will ever be done about it....put it to :sleep:

[HenryDorsetCase]

s but short of armed insurrection we won't be changing any proposals.



That, I'll sign up for.

[Oblivion]

Roughly speaking, in order for the increased cost on petrol to be equal to the motorcycle rego for under <600cc, then you would have to travel at least 35000ks in a year (at 20km a litre)(50US MPG) You would need to travel a greater distance if you had better fuel economy. Most of us here would travel at least 20,000kms in a year, some more some less, and that may potentially save you 1/3 of the rego cost per year. Providing that rego is now free. Which knowing them. It wont be.

Maths.

414\0.24 (increase)=Litres bought to remain equal, Which is 1725

Which you can multiply your km/l by to get the distance that you need to travel to pay your current rego worth.

[G4L4XY]

I still haven't worked out how many k's I get from a tank ..throttle doesn't stay in the same position during transit ;)

[hayd3n]

2x bikes = almost $900 a year in rego :(
i can only ride one at a time

[davereid]

Yep. I am in.

Time for a strategy me thinks. Ideas?

The reality is they are aware of the good reasons for a petrol based levy.

That's why they have tried hard early in the document to discredit it.

They have given us a window here. By attempting to discredit it, they have put it on the table, and actually shown some of their cards.

We get the chance to discredit right back at them.

The cost of the current system must be horrendous.

The NZTA have to print labels and post them to every one. They have to run a computer system to keep track of who has licenced, who has not and who is late. They have operate an enforcement and debt collection system, and its quoted in the document as resulting in thousands of fines that are not paid.

Even the cost of the call center that deals with licencing etc must be millions and millions of dollars.

Add to that the cost of the proposed rebates ACC want, and the system is very top heavy.

We need to find out a way to get our hands on those numbers. This can be done by OIA, but the closing date for submissions is very close to the time it takes for an OIA to be answered. Plus NZTA always stall my OIAs now, as I have made it to the troublemaker category.

Anyone want to help formulate some good questions, and get them off to NZTA/ MOT / ACC ?

[Akzle]

whogivesafuck, it's the government, they'llallbeshotcometherevolution.?

innit?

(does this mean they have to admit that mechanical/"legal" failures cause fuckall% of crashes?)

[Berries]

Look at how much progress Gay folks have made yet when they started they were beaten up and chucked out of political party meetings etc...

It requires consistency and perseverance however and a strong belief in what you are doing..

...and a thick skinned forehead.

I think you meant a thick headed foreskin but I'm not sure.

[Katman]

I think you meant a thick headed foreskin but I'm not sure.

Have you been peeking through my curtains?

[rustic101]

I'm all for the use of ANPR as it does not discriminate, is smart and the rule is simple - 'register your vehicle and get no infringement'. It will also catch those clowns on here that are so proud to be rebelling in protest while others comply. I've seen ANPR in use an its very smart short of fully covering your plates.

Its not in scope but if I had my way every driver/rider would be insured much the same as in the UK. No insurance you get towed and walk. However only if there was a reduction in registration costs.

[Katman]

Its not in scope but if I my way every driver/rider would be insured much the same as in the UK. No insurance you get towed and walk.

How very short sighted of you.

[rustic101]

How very short sighted of you.

So you won't like my comment that driving and riding on our roads is a privilege not a right ;)

[Katman]

So you won't like my comment that driving and riding on our roads is a privilege not a right ;)

I'm well aware that it's a privilege, not a right.

My point is that insurance policies do nothing to reduce crashes.

[rustic101]

Appreciate your perspective. However having a consequence for non compliance through enforcement and removal of the vehicle is a pretty good motivator to comply. The message will get through after a few tows. Why should those of us that mitigate as much risk as possible and take precautions and pay for idiots that don't.

I dislike insurance too but still have it as a safeguard. Plus you can't legislate against idiots unfortunately that's not an Offence.

[Katman]

Appreciate your perspective. However having a consequence for non compliance through enforcement and removal of the vehicle is a pretty good motivator to comply. The message will get through after a few tows. Why should those of us that mitigate as much risk as possible and take precautions pay for idiots that don't.

I dislike insurance too but still have it as a safeguard. Plus you can't legislate against idiots unfortunately that's not an Offence.

What totally flawed logic.

If anything, insurance gives people the opportunity to be even less careful.

[Scuba_Steve]

Appreciate your perspective. However having a consequence for non compliance through enforcement and removal of the vehicle is a pretty good motivator to comply. The message will get through after a few tows. Why should those of us that mitigate as much risk as possible and take precautions and pay for idiots that don't.


Yet you want compulsory 3rd party, which would increase your insurance cost to cover these "idiots" :weird: sorta hypocritical don't you think???
Just get full cover & be happy with the fact it's MUCH cheaper than even 3rd party would be under a compulsory scheme

[Conquiztador]

The reality is they are aware of the good reasons for a petrol based levy.

That's why they have tried hard early in the document to discredit it.

They have given us a window here. By attempting to discredit it, they have put it on the table, and actually shown some of their cards.

We get the chance to discredit right back at them.

The cost of the current system must be horrendous.

The NZTA have to print labels and post them to every one. They have to run a computer system to keep track of who has licenced, who has not and who is late. They have operate an enforcement and debt collection system, and its quoted in the document as resulting in thousands of fines that are not paid.

Even the cost of the call center that deals with licencing etc must be millions and millions of dollars.

Add to that the cost of the proposed rebates ACC want, and the system is very top heavy.

We need to find out a way to get our hands on those numbers. This can be done by OIA, but the closing date for submissions is very close to the time it takes for an OIA to be answered. Plus NZTA always stall my OIAs now, as I have made it to the troublemaker category.

Anyone want to help formulate some good questions, and get them off to NZTA/ MOT / ACC ?

Let's see if I get this right:
- You propose license AND Acc to be collected hrough a levy on petrol?
- You propose no license sticker for any vehicles?

That would mean:
- Registration of vehicle and number plate provided. Then nothing more (apart from 6 monthly/yearly WOF) for a vehicle be that it is used or not.

This would be almost a radical approach... And I am sure our law enforcment would have problems with this. But from a users point of view life would become simple:
Once you have a plate on the vehicle there is only two things you need to do: Do the regular WOF and buy fuel.

The simple ideas are always the best...

[scumdog]

Let's see if I get this right:
- You propose license AND Acc to be collected hrough a levy on petrol?
- You propose no license sticker for any vehicles?

That would mean:
- Registration of vehicle and number plate provided. Then nothing more (apart from 6 monthly/yearly WOF) for a vehicle be that it is used or not.

This would be almost a radical approach... And I am sure our law enforcment would have problems with this. But from a users point of view life would become simple:
Once you have a plate on the vehicle there is only two things you need to do: Do the regular WOF and buy fuel.

The simple ideas are always the best...

Hmmm, with 27 litres worth of motor to feed I'm not sure it's a good idea!:lol:

[rustic101]

What totally flawed logic.

If anything, insurance gives people the opportunity to be even less careful.

Again I tend to disagree. I have full replacement insurance for the house. That does not mean I walk out the door and leave the candles burning next to the curtains. Why because I take personal responsibility and have modified my behavior to prevent that fire from starting.

I wonder if riders/drivers could do the same by taking personal responsibility for their actions when in charge of a lethal weapon like a half ton car etc?

No one I have ever met has been forced to ride/drive like an idiot. Everyone of them have been the master of their own destiny and have made that decision concisely or subconsciously themselves without considering the impact or consequences.

[Conquiztador]

Hmmm, with 27 litres worth of motor to feed I'm not sure it's a good idea!:lol:

WOW!!! I NEED to see that bike!! :msn-wink:

[Scuba_Steve]

Let's see if I get this right:
- You propose license AND Acc to be collected hrough a levy on petrol?
- You propose no license sticker for any vehicles?

That would mean:
- Registration of vehicle and number plate provided. Then nothing more (apart from 6 monthly/yearly WOF) for a vehicle be that it is used or not.

This would be almost a radical approach... And I am sure our law enforcment would have problems with this. But from a users point of view life would become simple:
Once you have a plate on the vehicle there is only two things you need to do: Do the regular WOF and buy fuel.

The simple ideas are always the best...

here's the biggest problems... not all motors are vehicles. Electrics get a free ride, hybrids get a subsidised ride & what about LPG, should you pay for the road when you BBQ or should they too get a free ride???
Fairest system by far is everything on RUC's you use you pay, simple easy

[Katman]

Again I tend to disagree. I have full replacement insurance for the house. That does not mean I walk out the door and leave the candles burning next to the curtains. Why because I take personal responsibility and have modified my behavior to prevent that fire from starting.

I wonder if riders/drivers could do the same by taking personal responsibility for their actions when in charge of a lethal weapon like a half ton car etc?

No one I have ever met has been forced to ride/drive like an idiot. Everyone of them have been the master of their own destiny and have made that decision concisely or subconsciously themselves without considering the impact or consequences.

For a *non sworn* policeman you're really quite thick.

[rustic101]

Dear Katman

You may have the wrong person!!!
I do not work for nor am I employed by Police.
May pay to check your facts before shooting from the hip...

[Katman]

Dear Katman

You may have the wrong person!!!
I do not work for nor am I employed by Police.
May pay to check your facts before shooting from the hip...

That doesn't surprise me.

Stoney never seemed to know what the fuck he was talking about.

[rustic101]

That doesn't surprise me.

Stoney never seemed to know what the fuck he was talking about.

Made me smile as you called me thick:clap:

Is that an own goal I wonder

[Katman]

Is that an own goal I wonder

The jury's still out.

[Zamiam]

Thanks for the link. Have done a submission online:

1. Warning period of 2 weeks if WOF or Rego expired then automatic fine if not fixed in 7 days
2. Sliding scale of fines - why fine me the same when my rego/wof has just expired as the prick who has driving around for 12 months with no rego or wof
3. One lot of ACC fees per individual. As others have said why should I be gouged for ACC just because I own a car, a van and a bike. I can only use one at a time.

[Conquiztador]

Thanks for the link. Have done a submission online:

1. Warning period of 2 weeks if WOF or Rego expired then automatic fine if not fixed in 7 days
2. Sliding scale of fines - why fine me the same when my rego/wof has just expired as the prick who has driving around for 12 months with no rego or wof
3. One lot of ACC fees per individual. As others have said why should I be gouged for ACC just because I own a car, a van and a bike. I can only use one at a time.

Disagree with #1: If I do not get WOF and not using vehicle, surely that is not a offence???
Disagree with #2: How do you know that he/she has been driving around at all? Vehicle could have been sitting in garage broken...
Agree with #3.

But well done for submission!

[scumdog]

Disagree with #1: If I do not get WOF and not using vehicle, surely that is not a offence???
Disagree with #2: How do you know that he/she has been driving around at all? Vehicle could have been sitting in garage broken...
Agree with #3.

But well done for submission!

No1 - how is anybody ever going to know if you're not using the vehicle?
No2 the same.

So how would you ever get a ticket?

(Assuming Zamian is talking about if you use the car on the road..)

You trollin' or what??

[CookMySock]

Me thinks you need to do some thinking and some learning of history. No government willingly gave those rights, they were won by the people, just like the gays, the Hikoi of Dame Cooper, votes for woman, votes for non-land owning whites (Maori's had the vote before them even if they weren't allowed in the pubs).History is bunkum. These are inalienable rights I (and you) already have. Simply say no, and when the magistrate asks for jurisdiction, tell him you don't. Easy.

Waste of time talking about this on KB tho.

[davereid]

here's the biggest problems... not all motors are vehicles. Electrics get a free ride, hybrids get a subsidised ride & what about LPG, should you pay for the road when you BBQ or should they too get a free ride???
Fairest system by far is everything on RUC's you use you pay, simple easy

The system already has provision for vehicles that don't pay ACC levies on fuel, so no change there, although of course the owners of those vehicles may actually be better off with a fuel based levy. So LPG, diesel, electric, ethanol already has a solution in place and working. In fact a project to modernise (increase prices ?) has just been completed by the NZTA.

But even if it were not already in place, there is no problem with electric vehicles. Within a couple of years most homes will have smart meters - so every appliance including your car can potentailly be charged at a different rate.

Third party insurance regularly finds its way to the table and is lauged off, basically because it has no advantages.

(1) We already have higher rates of insurance than most countries that require it.
(2) Our Insurance is voluntary, thus is cheaper.
(3) Even if you only have thrid party, most insurance companies will pay for damage to your vehicle if you can identify the at fault party. My cover is for full value, but even AA offer $4K of cover this way.

So if YOU have third party cover, you dont need to wory about the other chap anyway.
(4) Payout rates drop under compulsory schemes as everyone disputes everything

Anyway its all a diversion.

MOT have put fuel based taxes on the table. With support from a wide section of NZ they will have to consider them. In this case we have to remember we will still be on our side of the table after the election. This government may not. MOT will listen just not very well.

RUCs are very fair, but they havent been offered as an option, and it may be harder to get them there.

[MSTRS]

The reality is (and always will be) is that, everytime it is perceived that motorcyclist are getting a raw deal, a bleat thread is started...words/words and more words.:rolleyes:

09' was the climactic point, but from then on.....interest wained dramatically.
The topic may be worth a discussion at the very least, but nothing will ever be done about it.

Everyone should listen to this man. He KNOWS what he is talking about.
There were quite of few who worked REAL hard on this back then, including me. But no-one did more than Maha. Or Mom. No-one.

The rest of you?
SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELVES!!!

[Zamiam]

Disagree with #1: If I do not get WOF and not using vehicle, surely that is not a offence???
Disagree with #2: How do you know that he/she has been driving around at all? Vehicle could have been sitting in garage broken...
Agree with #3.

But well done for submission!

You're right but I also put

4. Continuous licencing etc. should be discontinued. I'me only breaking the law if I'm using the vehicle somewhere it is required to be registered. I shouldn't have to pay for something I'm not using.

[p.dath]

...
Its not in scope but if I had my way every driver/rider would be insured much the same as in the UK. No insurance you get towed and walk. However only if there was a reduction in registration costs.

This was look at in the previous Safer Journeys submissions. It turned out that 95% of the vehicles on the road were already insured. Something like 4.9% of the remainder were not insurable (drive had been disqualified, vehicle ordered off road, etc). So compulsory insurance would only affect .1% of the vehicles.

Then they looked at the cost of implementing such a scheme to force those 0.1% of vehicles to get insurance, and it turned out everything was going to be paying more to run the scheme, and the benefit from the scheme was minimal. So the idea was scraped.


I generally support a 100% fuel based levy, but you have to remember changes to the law can stay in force for decades sometimes. Now with this in mind, consider the increasing likelihood of their being vehicles that don't need fuel (e,g. electric) - meaning they would bypass the levy, and the increasing chances of vehicles becoming more and more fuel efficient - which would necessitate the need for fuel price levy increases as the same amount of money still needs to be collected.

[Conquiztador]

So how would you ever get a ticket?





Yes, I can see how that would keep you awake :cool:

[Maha]

Everyone should listen to this man. He KNOWS what he is talking about.
There were quite of few who worked REAL hard on this back then, including me. But no-one did more than Maha. Or Mom. No-one.

The rest of you?
SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELVES!!!

Humbling words said there John I must say.....

We put together four protest rides in the Auckland area from late 09' and the months following.
We were trying to gauge the level of support with the issue/s at hand.
With each ride, the numbers got less and less....from 360 bikes on the first ride to less the 100 by the last.
There were thousands of tree huggers (and like minded people) ..THOUSANDS! marching up Queen st the same day as our last protest ride.
We had to wait for the until the marching was well clear...we were hardly noticed at all, unlike the first blast up Q/st some months prior.
On that occassion, we bike cops at intersections and lot of bystanders taking pictures.

Honestly, I could understand the dwindling support of said rides, which is why the next phase of the 'movement' seemed such a great idea.
What I learned from the whole excerise was, you dont need anything like what we had going....
All you need is 'Support from like minded People'...(the public)...bikers alone dont have the numbers.
Not every mining protester is a miner right?....
They are the public who want to say NO and have had enough of being dictated to time and time again.
This 'Vehicle license reform' involves all road users, not just bikers
I wonder if bikers would get out and support car enthusiasts if they decide to do something about it?

[reggie1198]

...and a thick foreskinned head.

:brick:


Corrected.....

[MSTRS]

Humbling words said there John I must say.....

Perhaps. But still true.



I wonder if bikers would get out and support car enthusiasts if they decide to do something about it?
Don't make me laugh. Most of them can't even agree on what a motorcycle is...and it goes downhill from there.

[FuriousD]

So is anyone actually going to do anything? cause if so, as long as its on the north island, I'm in!

[Akzle]

So is anyone actually going to do anything? cause if so, as long as its on the north island, I'm in!

yes: i'm going to continue to ride and drive unregistered vehicles and make the life of any person who talks to me about it a PITA for MONTHS.

[rastuscat]

The reality is they are aware of the good reasons for a petrol based levy.

That's why they have tried hard early in the document to discredit it.

They have given us a window here. By attempting to discredit it, they have put it on the table, and actually shown some of their cards.

We get the chance to discredit right back at them.

The cost of the current system must be horrendous.

The NZTA have to print labels and post them to every one. They have to run a computer system to keep track of who has licenced, who has not and who is late. They have operate an enforcement and debt collection system, and its quoted in the document as resulting in thousands of fines that are not paid.

Even the cost of the call center that deals with licencing etc must be millions and millions of dollars.

Add to that the cost of the proposed rebates ACC want, and the system is very top heavy.

We need to find out a way to get our hands on those numbers. This can be done by OIA, but the closing date for submissions is very close to the time it takes for an OIA to be answered. Plus NZTA always stall my OIAs now, as I have made it to the troublemaker category.

Anyone want to help formulate some good questions, and get them off to NZTA/ MOT / ACC ?

Happy to be a conduit if you are on their naughty list.

[scumdog]

yes: i'm going to continue to ride and drive unregistered vehicles and make the life of any person who talks to me about it a PITA for MONTHS.

They tell you that you're being a PITA???

I've found generally those who imagine they're a PITA or hard-man are actually a source of ridicule and mirth.:laugh:

But don't tell them that...our fun would be gone

[rastuscat]

yes: i'm going to continue to ride and drive unregistered vehicles and make the life of any person who talks to me about it a PITA for MONTHS.

Whew. Thought you wiz gonna cave in there for a minute.

Thanks Akzle, my employment is secured.

[MSTRS]

And you wonder why the police get so little respect...when you go about taking advantage of poor saps like that. :msn-wink:

[rastuscat]

And you wonder why the police get so little respect...when you go about taking advantage of poor saps like that. :msn-wink:

Arthur Alan Thomas.........David Dougherty..........David Bain..........Akzle.........

Nah, just doesn't have a ring to it.

[Akzle]

Thanks Akzle, my employment is secured.

*until the revolution. then your kind will be surplus to requirements.

...innt doing a very good job down there rasty, heard you let one of our bretheren get killed by a cage on your favourite road....:nono:

[rastuscat]

*until the revolution. then your kind will be surplus to requirements.

...innt doing a very good job down there rasty, heard you let one of our bretheren get killed by a cage on your favourite road....:nono:

Pissed off that it happened, but they didn't ask my permission, so it wasn't me that "let" it happen.

Not sure of the circumstances, but it sounds like it wasn't your average SMIDSY.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/7740028/Motorcyclist-killed-in-Christchurch-crash

[Oakie]

...innt doing a very good job down there rasty, heard you let one of our bretheren get killed by a cage on your favourite road....:nono:


Nah. Different road. It connects to 75 but is very urban.

[Brian d marge]

w h y am I t y p i n g this a g a i n ..

do you people not understand ,,, ( insert whole lot of well thought out reasons , I just cant be arsed anymore )

just pay the fkin money and stop bleating , your obviously not going to do anything

Stephen

there ya go this will make you happy ...
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/WVqAYGW-d4U" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[rastuscat]

there ya go this will make you happy .>

Yes thanks. :rolleyes:

[Akzle]

Pissed off that it happened, but they didn't ask my permission, so it wasn't me that "let" it happen.

you didn't notice enough infringements...