Wellington road policing manager Inspector Pete Baird is a fucking halfwit then?

[carbonhed]

"Wellington road policing manager Inspector Pete Baird said most buses trundled along the Golden Mile at between 13kmh and 17kmh but getting hit by a 12-tonne bus "is like getting hit by a car at 140kmh".

An 80Kg adult getting hit by a 1.5 tonne car doing 140 kph would have their legs below mid thigh vaporised instantly followed by their face hitting the bonnet at the speed of fucking light and then approximately 60 kg of sausage meat slammming through the windscreen and into the lap of the stunned driver before he had chance to say "Oh Shit!"

This is absolutely nothing like getting hit by a bus doing between 13 and 17 kph... but hey it's alright if your too pigshit thick to understand this... because you too can be an Inspector in the New Zealand Toytown Police - Traffic Division. This fucking bozo gets to call the shots?

Rant ends.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/7725674/Council-considering-20kmh-Golden-Mile-limit

[merv]

They might average 13 - 17 but those buses race along between stops - I doubt they stay below the 30 limit when I see them.

[bogan]

Dudes been reading too many physics textbooks about momentum. Turns out a 120mm kinetic energy penetrator round has about the same momentum too. Fuck, you could just go around nudging tanks with buses instead of using the expensive depleted uranium :bleh:

[BMWST?]

"Wellington road policing manager Inspector Pete Baird said most buses trundled along the Golden Mile at between 13kmh and 17kmh but getting hit by a 12-tonne bus "is like getting hit by a car at 140kmh".

An 80Kg adult getting hit by a 1.5 tonne car doing 140 kph would have their legs below mid thigh vaporised instantly followed by their face hitting the bonnet at the speed of fucking light and then approximately 60 kg of sausage meat slammming through the windscreen and into the lap of the stunned driver before he had chance to say "Oh Shit!"

This is absolutely nothing like getting hit by a bus doing between 13 and 17 kph... but hey it's alright if your too pigshit thick to understand this... because you too can be an Inspector in the New Zealand Toytown Police - Traffic Division. This fucking bozo gets to call the shots?

Rant ends.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/7725674/Council-considering-20kmh-Golden-Mile-limit

i spose he thinks that a 1 tonne car has to go 12 times as fast as a 12 tonne bus to get the same energy.He seems unaware that the snery released increases with the SQUARE ot the speed ie 2 x the speed 4 times the energy 4 times 16 times the energy etc

[pete376403]

I thought it would be pretty obvious - buses stay off the footpath, pedestrians stay off the roads (except at controlled crossings)

Police could always be out there issuing the survivors with tickets for jaywalking.

[Rhys]

I thought it would be pretty obvious - buses stay off the footpath, pedestrians stay off the roads (except at controlled crossings)

Police could always be out there issuing the survivors with tickets for jaywalking.

They wouldn't be able to write them quick enough

[Jantar]

"Wellington road policing manager Inspector Pete Baird said most buses trundled along the Golden Mile at between 13kmh and 17kmh but getting hit by a 12-tonne bus "is like getting hit by a car at 140kmh".

An 80Kg adult getting hit by a 1.5 tonne car doing 140 kph would have their legs below mid thigh vaporised instantly followed by their face hitting the bonnet at the speed of fucking light and then approximately 60 kg of sausage meat slammming through the windscreen and into the lap of the stunned driver before he had chance to say "Oh Shit!"

This is absolutely nothing like getting hit by a bus doing between 13 and 17 kph... but hey it's alright if your too pigshit thick to understand this... because you too can be an Inspector in the New Zealand Toytown Police - Traffic Division. This fucking bozo gets to call the shots?

Rant ends.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/7725674/Council-considering-20kmh-Golden-Mile-limit

Damn those busses travel fast. In the past 12 months my average speed has been just a tad over 3 kmh. (27000 km in 8784 hours)

[Marmoot]

Mathematically he is close enough.
P1 = M1.V1 , P2 = M2.V2
If P1 = P2, then M1.V1 = M2.V2.
V2 = M1/M2 * V1

If the bus is "1" and the car is "2", then the car's hypothetical speed equals how many times the bus's mass (or most people incorrectly call "weight") is to the car's.

If an average car weighs 2000kg, a 12T bus weighs 6x that hitting you at 20kph would put a momentum equal that of a car travelling at 6x 20kph = 120kph.

For medium car with the weight is about 1500kg, the bus is about 8x the weight. Given that, saying 140kph is probably about right if the bus is travelling at about 17kph. Actually, 136kph to be exact.

[FlangMasterJ]

Mathematically he is close enough.

If an average car weighs 2000kg, a 12T bus weighs 6x that hitting you at 20kph would put a momentum equal that car travelling at 6x 20kph = 120kph.

For medium sports car, the weight is about 1500kg, which means the bus is about 8x the weight. Given that, saying 140kph is probably about right if the bus is travelling at about 17kph. Actually, 136kph to be exact.

I know what I'd rather be hit by, the number 83.

[flyingcrocodile46]

Mathematically he is close enough.
P1 = M1.V1 , P2 = M2.V2
If P1 = P2, then M1.V1 = M2.V2.
V2 = M1/M2 * V1

If the bus is "1" and the car is "2", then the car's hypothetical speed equals how many times the bus's mass (or most people incorrectly call "weight") is to the car's.

If an average car weighs 2000kg, a 12T bus weighs 6x that hitting you at 20kph would put a momentum equal that of a car travelling at 6x 20kph = 120kph.

For medium car with the weight is about 1500kg, the bus is about 8x the weight. Given that, saying 140kph is probably about right if the bus is travelling at about 17kph. Actually, 136kph to be exact.

That's all good and fine but I don't believe that equal damage will occur between the two scenarios. Perhaps you can get the same maths to work for the following scenario but I seriously doubt that any damage would occur to a pedestrian if a 4 billion ton bus ran into (not over) them at a speed of 1 metre per hour. Yet bullets weight FA and will go through an engine block in the right circumstances. I think speed has far more influence than weight.

[carbonhed]

Mathematically he is close enough.
P1 = M1.V1 , P2 = M2.V2
If P1 = P2, then M1.V1 = M2.V2.
V2 = M1/M2 * V1

If the bus is "1" and the car is "2", then the car's hypothetical speed equals how many times the bus's mass (or most people incorrectly call "weight") is to the car's.

If an average car weighs 2000kg, a 12T bus weighs 6x that hitting you at 20kph would put a momentum equal that of a car travelling at 6x 20kph = 120kph.

For medium car with the weight is about 1500kg, the bus is about 8x the weight. Given that, saying 140kph is probably about right if the bus is travelling at about 17kph. Actually, 136kph to be exact.

Ladies and Gentleman we have a potential Police Inspector!

[oneofsix]

I thought it would be pretty obvious - buses stay off the footpath, pedestrians stay off the roads (except at controlled crossings)

Police could always be out there issuing the survivors with tickets for jaywalking.

In Wellington City there are the Walk Wise wardens, part of the same company that has the contract for the Parking Wardens. They do give out tickets for jaywalking, even entering a pedestrian crossing without giving traffic enough time to react ($35 ticket in the stats from memory) so it would be a revenue gatherer for the WCC rather than a police resource drain. Last Meter Warden I saw was dodging traffic jaywalking across Victoria St between Manners and Dixon, last Walk Wise warden seen was jaywalking across Victoria St between Bond and Manners. :weird: But the Walk Wise warden would have been safer as they wear bright yellow jackets :niceone:

The Math don't matter it is a sly way to make the golden mile a pedestrian and bus only zone but as they have to allow for council vehicles, delivery vehicles, CEO's limos and taxis they can't just ban cars so they are trying to make it uncomfortable for them.

[SMOKEU]

I think speed has far more influence than weight.

I'd have to say the same, since a bolt action or break barrel firearm does far less damage in terms of recoil than the object being hit by the projectile(s). Every action must have an equal and opposite reaction, and unless it's a semi auto, the action isn't going to absorb the force.

[huff3r]

That's all good and fine but I don't believe that equal damage will occur between the two scenarios. Perhaps you can get the same maths to work for the following scenario but I seriously doubt that any damage would occur to a pedestrian if a 4 billion ton bus ran into (not over) them at a speed of 1 metre per hour. Yet bullets weight FA and will go through an engine block in the right circumstances. I think speed has far more influence than weight.

You might find that actually the surface that momentum is distributed across makes a bit of a difference. The quick bullet is tiny. The slow bus is huge, and likely to hit 1000x more of your body surface during the impact.

(actually that was a number i pulled out of the air, but surely you get the idea?)

[bogan]

You might find that actually the surface that momentum is distributed across makes a bit of a difference. The quick bullet is tiny. The slow bus is huge, and likely to hit 1000x more of your body surface during the impact.

(actually that was a number i pulled out of the air, but surely you get the idea?)

It's more the delta V which does the damage, a bus can impart up to 17kmhr or near instantaneous delta V, and being 12 ton it will be pretty much the full 17. The car can impart up to 140kmhr of near instantaneous delta V, though being 1.5 ton it might only impart 120kmhr of that. Assuming the same acceleration time, the car must apply 7x more force. And thats isn't taking account the squidgyness of the collision, just assuming a perfectly inelastic smash up.

[wysper]

I think speed has far more influence than weight.

That's pretty bloody close to speed kills my friend. :laugh::Police:

[pzkpfw]

... Wellington road policing manager Inspector Pete Baird said most buses trundled along the Golden Mile at between 13kmh and 17kmh ...

If that's true, why bother with changing the speed limit to 20 km/h?


(They talked about making the centre of Tawa a 40 km/h zone, then found most cars do that anyway, so canned the idea.)

[Banditbandit]

WARNING WARNING WARNING


This thread contains severe pedantry which may damage your brain.

[Marmoot]

Ladies and Gentleman we have a potential Police Inspector!

Thanks. What's the pay like?

[Katman]

Save me from these geniuses.

[Drew]

Save me from these geniuses.
OK...You're a dick.

[caspernz]

I thought it would be pretty obvious - buses stay off the footpath, pedestrians stay off the roads (except at controlled crossings)

Police could always be out there issuing the survivors with tickets for jaywalking.

Meh, sod the ticket writing, how about just using rubber bullets on jaywalkers? Or maybe just use paintball guns...that even works on senior bus company staff I bet...

[pzkpfw]

It occurs to me that when the T.V. news does an item on this issue, they always show video of lots and lots of people jaywalking.

Apparently it's "really bad", but none of the videos show them being hit by busses.

[haydes55]

Stating the obvious here, if a bus going 17km/h is as dangerous a car going 140km/h does that mean since bikes are so light we can safely go 200km/h and still have less momentum than a car at legal speeds?

I believe a policeman just gave motorcyclists an excuse for speeding.

[Kiwi Graham]

So are the police saying it is no longer speed that kills but mass?

[Paul in NZ]

Stating the obvious here, if a bus going 17km/h is as dangerous a car going 140km/h does that mean since bikes are so light we can safely go 200km/h and still have less momentum than a car at legal speeds?

I believe a policeman just gave motorcyclists an excuse for speeding.


Yup - that was my thinking too... To reduce congestion we should just get rid of those slow buses and let people drive at 140kph through town… Some of the scooterists might need to ‘upgrade’ a bit …

The whole thing just amazes me. It was a bad idea to start with and everything since then has been in an effort to justify that original bad decision. The bigger buses cause most of the bloody congestion anyway. Jay walkers or not – the bloody things are a menace and make the whole place look like a frustrated transport hub…

Move the bloody things away from the shopping streets.

[Gianz]

Stating the obvious here, if a bus going 17km/h is as dangerous a car going 140km/h does that mean since bikes are so light we can safely go 200km/h and still have less momentum than a car at legal speeds?

I believe a policeman just gave motorcyclists an excuse for speeding.


yep, that's right

[carbonhed]

Stating the obvious here, if a bus going 17km/h is as dangerous a car going 140km/h does that mean since bikes are so light we can safely go 200km/h and still have less momentum than a car at legal speeds?

I believe a policeman just gave motorcyclists an excuse for speeding.

Classic!

I was going to let the Inspector loose in a purpose built "Special Needs" bus that will weigh eleventy billion tonnes and move like a glacier... see how many pedestrians he can mow down with that.

However now we can sponsor Drew to ride down Lambton Quay at 200kph in total safety. He'll have to borrow my Blade... reaching 200 kph in the CBD on the POS RF would require a start in Featherston and it would likely break down before reaching the start line.

Momentum is the hidden, silent killer that stalks our streets and communities!

[george formby]

I think the statement was calculated to cause shock & awe for it's intended audience, those thick enough to step in front of a bus.

I've just been on the "i-podpermanentfixture" forum & their is not a squeak about his comments.

[Berries]

So are the police saying it is no longer speed that kills but mass?
Yeah, first the Muslims, now the bloody Catholics.

[pete376403]

ROLF!!!:laugh::laugh::laugh:

[Usarka]

I was going to let the Inspector loose in a purpose built "Special Needs" bus that will weigh eleventy billion tonnes and move like a glacier... see how many pedestrians he can mow down with that.


Happens at Franz Joseph glacier - stupid tourists who aren't quick enough to get out of the way get splattered all the time.

[jasonu]

I know what I'd rather be hit by, the number 83.

No, the correct answer is 42 and here is the proof.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrases_from_The_Hitchhiker%27s_Guide_to_the_Galax y#Answer_to_the_Ultimate_Question_of_Life.2C_the_U niverse.2C_and_Everything_.2842.29

[jasonu]

Save me from these geniuses.


OK...You're a dick.

OK... Go to another forum.

[schrodingers cat]

I think speed has far more influence than weight.

I think you'll find it is to do with load distribution.
Bullet concentrates its energy potential
Bus has massive energy potential but over a larger area.
How about we put a spike on front of said Bus and see how far you can poke holes in moron pedestrian.

And before you disagree - please explain ability of (slow) arrows to go through things that stop (fast) bullets

[Drew]

I think you'll find it is to do with load distribution.
Bullet concentrates its energy potential
Bus has massive energy potential but over a larger area.
How about we put a spike on front of said Bus and see how far you can poke holes in moron pedestrian.

And before you disagree - please explain ability of (slow) arrows to go through things that stop (fast) bullets

Dunno if I'm saying a similar thing, but this is what I thought.

The bus will only do more damage if it sandwiches you between itself and a stationary other object. Otherwise a body just cannot absorb any more energy from it, than it can from teh car.

[schrodingers cat]

Dunno if I'm saying a similar thing, but this is what I thought.

The bus will only do more damage if it sandwiches you between itself and a stationary other object. Otherwise a body just cannot absorb any more energy from it, than it can from teh car.

Thats right. The bus will scarely slow from accelerating the pedestrians mass and when it does slow (brake) the body continues on until they reach the ground. If nothing else is in the way it is likely that there wouldn't be too much harm because the total potential energy in the bus wouldn't be transferred to the moron.

Modern cars are designed to cause the pedestrian to crumple onto the vehicle and distribute the force over a greater area. The soft plastic bumpers are an attempt to reduce the rate of acceleration.

Most bus fronts these days are are fibreglass and have a bit of 'give' Bike and pram racks on the front however - that'd be a different story