Cops blinded by their own stupidity

[sAsLEX]

Who else watched Sunday?

the cop they had on there must have been on something, saying the victim was severly beaten when his own father said he wasn't even hurt and that he played football later in the day!?

and some one who stepped up to the plate and has caught 2 burglars at the same premises in the last year is arrested, hold on where were the police?! sh1 is quite likely, catchin innocent medics speeding!


The police have to step back and have a long hard look at themselves and wonder why no one is joining these days, most people support people who look after their community and dont want to see innocent people behind bars while criminals and the scum of society are continually let free!

[scumdog]

Nice troll!!!

So you KNOW that EVERYBODY was telling the truth on this programme???

Yeah, screw-ups happen but I wonder WHO ( and by how much) did NOT reveal as much as they knew on this show??? - from both sides.

[inlinefour]

Its cause most of its total shit... :weird:

[crashe]

I watched it...

Now the police are saying that they are now looking into the 15 year old smashing up the shop frontage...
Like now after how many months...!!!!!!!!!

The police go to where he is staying and he is never there, yet the people there are smoking wacky backy and boozing .... oh well...

The father wanted his son to be locked up and learn that he is doing wrong.

Yep there are always two sides to every story....
I tend to believe the guy thats trying to stop the crims in his area.

[scumdog]

I watched it...

Now the police are saying that they are now looking into the 15 year old smashing up the shop frontage...
Like now after how many months...!!!!!!!!!

The police go to where he is staying and he is never there, yet the people there are smoking wacky backy and boozing .... oh well...

The father wanted his son to be locked up and learn that he is doing wrong.

Yep there are always two sides to every story....
I tend to believe the guy thats trying to stop the crims in his area.

And at 15 he's going to get a slap over the wrist with a wet bus ticket..

For: Intentional Damage-
try and prove he did more and you'd be out of luck.

[Pixie]

The cops seem to be totally unable to determine what is going to be bad PR and when to keep their mouths shut :rofl:
Maybe it really is an IQ problem :devil2:
As for the story itself :oi-grr: :oi-grr: :oi-grr: :oi-grr: :oi-grr: :oi-grr: :oi-grr:

[Pixie]

And at 15 he's going to get a slap over the wrist with a wet bus ticket..

For: Intentional Damage-
try and prove he did more and you'd be out of luck.
We know this,we after all, have voted in the Feminazi,PC,chardonay socialist regime we deserve.The point is the Samoan guy should be getting a police commendation not arrested.What's wrong with the fucken idiot cop hierachy??

[James Deuce]

Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

So we should let vigilante justice rule then?

Vigilantes are worse than the original criminal.

But you've all obviously made your mind up based on a TV "news" show. The same show that presented my brother in law who was very nearly killed by a drunk driver and lost an arm and a leg, as an angry, gun toting, redneck hick. And the recidivist drunk driver who lost an eye as a charming "Robin Hood" type who needed lots of counselling to get over losing his eye.

There's more here than meets the eye, but people who launch into a crime in progress without informing the Police first deserve jail time. Or we could of course just let everyone beat the shit out of each other for anything.

[scumdog]

The cops seem to be totally unable to determine what is going to be bad PR and when to keep their mouths shut :rofl:
Maybe it really is an IQ problem :devil2:
As for the story itself :oi-grr: :oi-grr: :oi-grr: :oi-grr: :oi-grr: :oi-grr: :oi-grr:

Read post #2.

Never mind, more neg. TV + more suckers to believe that it is ALL true = less people wanting to join police.

They will then have to offer more money to encourage people to join and I might get a pay increase out of it, hell, bring on more crappy TV stories!!

EDIT: Imagine the story from the other perspective "Grown man beats 15 year old with metal base-ball bat for breaking window - and window not even property of bat wielder"

[Lou Girardin]

I didn't see the show, but this isn't the first time this sort of thing has happened.
Last year a guy was prosecuted for thumping some hood who had just stolen a womans car and crashed it a short way down the road. He witnessed it all.
This "prosecute at all costs" is not a good look. And we all know that it's only done to cover the cops arses in case they are critcised for using discretion.
They really need some bosses with genitalia.

[idb]

Read post #2.

Never mind, more neg. TV + more suckers to believe that it is ALL true = less people wanting to join police.

They will then have to offer more money to encourage people to join and I might get a pay increase out of it, hell, bring on more crappy TV stories!!
I agree with you SD.
I am hugely cynical about what's on TV but I can still get sucked into believing what they show.
It's my trusting nature doncha know.

[Beemer]

As my other half said, next time the guy should just beat the crap out of the guy breaking into the shop, then dump his body somewhere no one will find it!

Seriously though, the guy is 15 and 6ft tall, the guy who chased him had balls and was lucky he didn't end up injured himself. The kid sounds like a little shit whose own father thinks he needs jail time, so what are we meant to do? Perhaps next time this good citizen should call out "excuse me mate, I hope you're an adult because I'd like you to cease what you are doing as it is against the law and I may have to use force to stop you".

How many people would bother chasing someone breaking into someone ELSE'S property? I don't believe the full story came out on tv, but I know who I'd rather have as my neighbour and it ain't the 15 year-old loser.

[Indoo]

Maybe it really is an IQ problem :devil2:


I think your right, people who take shows like that at face value definately do have an IQ problem. Its a shame how gullible people can be, shows like that aren't out to promote facts, they are out to create a story and place a slant on things to grab peoples interest by twisting facts.

If the Police hadn't prosecuted they may well have created another story bagging Police for supporting vigilante justice and ignoring the rule of law.
It wouldn't make such good copy though, as theres nothing people like to hear more than vigilantes giving crooks a good bashing, just so long as its the vigilantes using excessive force and not the Police, its ok.

[spudchucka]

We know this,we after all, have voted in the Feminazi,PC,chardonay socialist regime we deserve.The point is the Samoan guy should be getting a police commendation not arrested.What's wrong with the fucken idiot cop hierachy??
The guy shouldn't have run after them. He stopped the break in and in doing so performed his civic duty, he should have left it at that and called the police at that point. By chasing after them he has stepped into the realms of vigilantyism. He has also put himself at great risk as he could have been set upon by three male offenders. To subsequently prosecute him for a serious assault causing injury to the 15 year old they would have had to have medical evidence of injury, doctors reports, x-rays etc. If he wants to be a hero and carry out a citizens arrest armed with a baseball bat then he is subject to section 62 of the Crimes Act 1961 same as anyone who makes an arrest.

There are far too many armchair lawyers & graduates of the university of television around here!

[mikey]

Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

So we should let vigilante justice rule then?

Vigilantes are worse than the original criminal.

But you've all obviously made your mind up based on a TV "news" show. The same show that presented my brother in law who was very nearly killed by a drunk driver and lost an arm and a leg, as an angry, gun toting, redneck hick. And the recidivist drunk driver who lost an eye as a charming "Robin Hood" type who needed lots of counselling to get over losing his eye.

There's more here than meets the eye, but people who launch into a crime in progress without informing the Police first deserve jail time. Or we could of course just let everyone beat the shit out of each other for anything.


god damm red neck gun weilding hicks!
bring back the patu weilding maori

[Lou Girardin]

[QUOTE=Indoo]I think your right, people who take shows like that at face value definately do have an IQ problem. Its a shame how gullible people can be, shows like that aren't out to promote facts, they are out to create a story and place a slant on things to grab peoples interest by twisting facts.

QUOTE]

Do tell us the true story then.

[Ixion]

The guy shouldn't have run after them. He stopped the break in and in doing so performed his civic duty, he should have left it at that and called the police at that point. ..

With all respect, what good would that have done? In Auckland it is very unlikely that the police would have responded at all. If they did, it would be so long delayed that the offender would be many miles away and completely untraceable . And would simply return again the next night . Is the guy to remain on guard perpetually , chasing the criminal away every night ?

The message all this send to criminals is "Go for it. If your burglary etc is successful, you're in the money. If someone interrupts you, run away. There's nothing they can do to stop you . And then go back again the next night, only a matter of time until you're successful".

If the public are not going to catch these people who is ? Certainly not the police, in Auckland at any rate.

[Lou Girardin]

One thing's for sure, just as we almost have anarchy on our roads (except for speeding), we will also have it in other crimes unless crims learn that crime hurts.

[SPman]

... Or we could of course just let everyone beat the shit out of each other for anything.
Seems fair enough to me
Who could we sell the TV rights to, though . . .?

[Beemer]

Seems fair enough to me
Who could we sell the TV rights to, though . . .?

Duh, whoever pays the most money!

[froggyfrenchman]

theres some idiots out there... have alil respect forthe real police. None at all for highway patrol! gather revenue from somewhere else!

[Pixie]

The police have to step back and have a long hard look at themselves and wonder why no one is joining these days, most people support people who look after their community and dont want to see innocent people behind bars while criminals and the scum of society are continually let free!
A shortage of c*nts perhaps

[Pixie]

Read post #2.

Never mind, more neg. TV + more suckers to believe that it is ALL true = less people wanting to join police.

They will then have to offer more money to encourage people to join and I might get a pay increase out of it, hell, bring on more crappy TV stories!!

EDIT: Imagine the story from the other perspective "Grown man beats 15 year old with metal base-ball bat for breaking window - and window not even property of bat wielder"
The 15 year old was 6' tall and his own father was commending the hero who wacked him

He should have crippled the fucker.You don't tend to continue robbing if you have to hobble to make your get away

[Pixie]

he has stepped into the realms of vigilantyism. He has also put himself at great risk as he could have been set upon by three male offenders. !
I'll take note of this for future reference,should I see a police officer having the shit kicked out of him

[scumdog]

The 15 year old was 6' tall and his own father was commending the hero who wacked him

He should have crippled the fucker.You don't tend to continue robbing if you have to hobble to make your get away

Why the hell didn't the old man give the loser son a whole lot of 'whack' earlier in his life??

Nah, if you cripple him you know the effing lazy loser will be on ACC for the rest of his miserable life.
If he ain't crippled he MAY get a job at some stage.

[mstriumph]

i once ruptured an assailant with the leg off a chip stand [it's a loooooooong story] -- does that count as vigilantwhateversom?

[scumdog]

i once ruptured an assailant with the leg off a chip stand [it's a loooooooong story] -- does that count as vigilantwhateversom?

Depends what the 'assailant' was doing!!

Did the chip-stand fall over when you took its leg??

[mstriumph]

attacking moi [he was a bit pissed that i'd interupted him robbing a deli]..... but only with his hands at that point - ie HE didn't have any bits of chipstand

[i'd very fortuitously landed on it during the course of the struggle and it sort of came to bits as i emerged from it ....... handy really....].

the police later warned me that i could be in trouble if they caught him and he wanted to press charges

luckily he didn't


Depends what the 'assailant' was doing!!

Did the chip-stand fall over when you took its leg??

[Pixie]

Why the hell didn't the old man give the loser son a whole lot of 'whack' earlier in his life??

Nah, if you cripple him you know the effing lazy loser will be on ACC for the rest of his miserable life.
If he ain't crippled he MAY get a job at some stage.
Not allowed to chastise your kids :nono:

[madboy]

If he ain't crippled he MAY get a job at some stage.It's a big MAY.

I reckon the police/corrections/WINZ will sponsor most of his adult life, with the odd sprinkling of ACC in there from injuries sustained during attempted escapes from custody or failed burgs... and don't forget the odd hospital admission for stupid shit caused by P use.

You and I need to stop wasting our time playing on the net, we've got some serious taxes to pay here for this person!!

[spudchucka]

With all respect, what good would that have done?
It wouldn't have resulted in anyone getting beat up with a baseball bat or the person doing the beating getting charged.

[spudchucka]

I'll take note of this for future reference,should I see a police officer having the shit kicked out of him
You're an idiot.

[Beemer]

You're an idiot.

Um, one thing I'd like to know - if we did step up and help a police officer who was being attacked and we injured one of the attackers, would we be charged for using excessive force? Or is the fact that a police officer is involved an excuse to beat the crap out of them? If so, then the law is an ass (please note, Hitcher, correct ass in this instance!) - why should it make any difference who is being attacked?

I would be more inclined to go to the assistance of an innocent member of the public who was being attacked - but then if I used force I would probably be done for injuring the tosser who was attacking them!

I think the reason many people look the other way when they see crimes being committed is because they just don't want the hassle that becoming involved creates. As for vigilantes, I think people are missing the point - if you act AT THE TIME AN OFFENCE IS BEING COMMITTED - how can it be viewed as the action of a vigilante? I would think that was the action of a concerned citizen. Sure, if you watch the crime being committed and do nothing, but track the guy down a week later and beat him up, that isn't right. But if you see a crime, apprehend the offender and have to use force to restrain him - good for you! If anyone attacks me or my property, they better be prepared for a good kicking or a thump or two with the wrought iron poker or baseball bat. Four years of karate also mean I know where to hurt them where the bruises won't show!

[Fart]

I am surprise the police commissioner and the minister of police have not been asked to step down. The entire police management structure needs reviewing. Maybe a change of government will result in changes.

[Lou Girardin]

I am surprise the police commissioner and the minister of police have not been asked to step down. The entire police management structure needs reviewing. Maybe a change of government will result in changes.

Robbie has 1 or 2 years at $400k to go, then a fat pension. He'll ride out any tsunami of shit to get that.
Leadership? Yeah right!

[spudchucka]

Robbie has 1 or 2 years at $400k to go, then a fat pension. He'll ride out any tsunami of shit to get that.
Leadership? Yeah right!
He's promised to stand down if we don't get stab resistant body armour by the end of the next financial year. All you have to do is hijack the shipment and your wish can come true. Who do you reckon will be the next Big Cheese and how do you think they wil serve the police organisation and the public of NZ better than big Robbie has?

[spudchucka]

Um, one thing I'd like to know - if we did step up and help a police officer who was being attacked and we injured one of the attackers, would we be charged for using excessive force? Or is the fact that a police officer is involved an excuse to beat the crap out of them? If so, then the law is an ass (please note, Hitcher, correct ass in this instance!) - why should it make any difference who is being attacked?

I would be more inclined to go to the assistance of an innocent member of the public who was being attacked - but then if I used force I would probably be done for injuring the tosser who was attacking them!

I think the reason many people look the other way when they see crimes being committed is because they just don't want the hassle that becoming involved creates. As for vigilantes, I think people are missing the point - if you act AT THE TIME AN OFFENCE IS BEING COMMITTED - how can it be viewed as the action of a vigilante? I would think that was the action of a concerned citizen. Sure, if you watch the crime being committed and do nothing, but track the guy down a week later and beat him up, that isn't right. But if you see a crime, apprehend the offender and have to use force to restrain him - good for you! If anyone attacks me or my property, they better be prepared for a good kicking or a thump or two with the wrought iron poker or baseball bat. Four years of karate also mean I know where to hurt them where the bruises won't show!
As I recall this has been covered many times before but to clarify....

Section 48 of the Crimes Act 1961 refers...


48.Self-defence and defence of another—

Every one is justified in using, in the defence of himself or another, such force as, in the circumstances as he believes them to be, it is reasonable to use.]

To be lawful the use of force must be necessary and reasonable in the circumstances. What is reasonable is subjective to what you believe at the time but is also considered objectively as in what any other reasonable person would believe in the same circumstances. These are the tests applied to use of force when determining whether it was necessary and reasonable and therefore justifiable in the circumstances.

Where excessive use is used section 62 of the same act applies...


62.Excess of force—

Every one authorised by law to use force is criminally responsible for any excess, according to the nature and quality of the act that constitutes the excess.

In other words.. where use of force is necessary in the circumstances but the level of force used is unreasonable then the force used is not justifiable.

So to answer your question.... Using force to defend a police officer or any other person getting a beating is totally justifiable so long as the level of force used is reasonable. In other words, section 48 is not a free licence to beat the shit out of someone in the name of self defence or defence of another.

If however you believed at the time that the only way you could stop the assault on the third party was to deliver one mighty blow, sufficient to incapacitate the offender and therefore stop the assault then that may well be totally justifiable.

Problems arise when people carry on after the assault has effectively been stopped. This constitutes an assault as the reason for the initial use of force no longer exists.

Make sense? I hope so.

In reference to this comment:


As for vigilantes, I think people are missing the point - if you act AT THE TIME AN OFFENCE IS BEING COMMITTED - how can it be viewed as the action of a vigilante?

The original scenario relating to this thread involved a person witnessing an offence or potential offence about to happen. He took steps to stop that offence, which were successful. Having stopped the offending he has then carried on pursuing the offenders and this has resulted in an assault with a weapon.

You figure the rest out.

[idb]

Who do you reckon will be the next Big Cheese and how do you think they wil serve the police organisation and the public of NZ better than big Robbie has?
All the likely candidates are suspended on full pay pending court cases at the moment aren't they?

[scumdog]

All the likely candidates are suspended on full pay pending court cases at the moment aren't they?

Ooooohh!

You're a low sneaky cynical bastard idb!!!

But I like it!!

[Lou Girardin]

He's promised to stand down if we don't get stab resistant body armour by the end of the next financial year. All you have to do is hijack the shipment and your wish can come true. Who do you reckon will be the next Big Cheese and how do you think they wil serve the police organisation and the public of NZ better than big Robbie has?

You've just got to keep trying till you find one with testicular fortitude.

[spudchucka]

You've just got to keep trying till you find one with testicular fortitude.
It won't happen! They are all ladder climbers by the time they get pips on their shoulders.