Problems with Motorsport New Zealand. Maybe MNZ isn't so bad

[Pumba]

Just got an email in my inbox from the Historic Racing Club and Hampton Downs Motorsport Park which made me aware of some stuff going on the the Car Racing world. I knew that there were a few problems but not that it had gotten as bad as it has, so I thought I would share.

Note the comments bellow are from HRC & HD and are not my personal opinions.


"At the Ice Breaker meeting I talked about what was happening with Tier One Motorsport.

It was latter bought to my attention that a number of competitors didn't have a clue what I was talking about so I would like to take opportunity to give a fuller explanation of the crisis facing Motor Sport in NZ.

For the last 20 years the Tier One championship , NZ V8's, Formula Ford, Suzuki, Production Cars, V8 Utes and GT3 Porsche has been run by a company called The Motor Sport Company Ltd (TMC), which was owned 60% by MSNZ and 40% by NZIGP, Taupo Car Club, Manawatu Car Club, Canterbury Car Club, South Canterbury Car club and Southland Sports Car Club. The board was made up of MSNZ appointees and one director representing the 40% shareholders.

At the last MSNZ conference the Chairman Martin Fine assured the clubs that though the company was experiencing a rough patch, all would be OK.

Well the rough patch certainly got worse when the V8 SuperTourers were successful in signing up the teams and drivers from the NZV8 series. Just when TMC thought it couldn't get worse the Utes and Suzuki's signed up to run with V8 SuperTourers as well.

TMC responded by changing their name to Motorsport Promotions Ltd and doing a deal with the Independent Race Group (IRC). The issue here is that many of the IRC classes don't want to go the South Island. The jewel in the IRC crown was Central Muscle Cars which were only keen to do three rounds with IRC, so the IRC stripped them of their membership, as the IRC deal is all or nothing and sent them packing! So then Central Muscle Cars became independent and signed to run at some meetings with V8 SuperTourers. Then we had the announcement that the directors and staff of MPL had resigned and David Dovey from the IRC had taken over. Then just over two weeks ago it was announced that MPL had gone into voluntary liquidation. Confused yet?

While all this was going on NZV8's (Vega) are suing V8 SuperTourers! Now everyone's worried about who's funding Vega's court battles and we hope it's not MSNZ, which is of course us!

While all this is before the court I am reluctant to comment further, but we could see a repeat of what has happened in the past where it is the members who have to pay the bills and they could be considerable.

At the MSNZ conference a remit was passed for a panel of experts to study the structure of Motor Sport in NZ and report back to member clubs by the 1st December 2012. This report will be a vital indication of progress within our administration. A final report is to be presented to the 2013 AGM of MSNZ.

While the situation MSNZ finds itself is dire, the sport is fortunate to have the V8 SuperTourer series, Toyota series and a number of high profile classic meetings over the summer to give the fans high quality ongoing motorsport events.

HRC and Hampton Downs will not be taking sides in the various legal actions taking place. We just provide the stage and stage hands, although we do think it is important that competitors know what is going on.

The HRC and HD submission to the review panel is attached at the bottom of this email.

Regards,
Chris Watson"

Well I thought the comments were interesting anyway.

[Drew]

What a fuckin mess!

[Drew]

It's not heaps worse than we've had it, come to think of it. Post classic, and Sidecar Racing associations are an example.

[malcy25]

It's not heaps worse than we've had it, come to think of it. Post classic, and Sidecar Racing associations are an example.

Drer, er, eh? Post Classics? They are MNZ afiliated and I'm not aware of any issues. Sidecars....another story I guess.

[Drew]

Drer, er, eh? Post Classics? They are MNZ afiliated and I'm not aware of any issues. Sidecars....another story I guess.Oh, my bad. I thought they'd had a falling out and started their own club too.

I suppose it's not really anything alike, by that email I kinda get the impression there has been money fraudulently going places, and the shit has hit the fan.

[ellipsis]

...sadly it's just a reflection of whats going on in NZ with a whole lot of stuff...a small population base that wants it all and an economy that is fucked and getting worse...

[malcy25]

Oh, my bad. I thought they'd had a falling out and started their own club too.

I suppose it's not really anything alike, by that email I kinda get the impression there has been money fraudulently going places, and the shit has hit the fan.

Drew, all the clubs "are their own clubs" !! Vic, Canti, AMCC etc that are then afiliated to MNZ.

The sidecars were their own club, and still are, they withdrew their linkages to MNZ, same as one of the motorcross clubs I think.

But yeah, when it comes down to it, guaranteed there'll be some ego's in the car stuff too!
:laugh:

[Grumph]

...sadly it's just a reflection of whats going on in NZ with a whole lot of stuff...a small population base that wants it all and an economy that is fucked and getting worse...

Be grateful there's no money in promoting motorcycle racing in NZ - over the very many years i"ve been involved I've seen some right chancers come on the scene - and eventually go away. Invariably they've left clubs and people poorer for their efforts...

As soon as there's real money up front this sort of argument ensues.

[Mental Trousers]

Money is what screwed things up with MSNZ. They're the majority share holder in the former The Motor Sport Company so they were busy protecting their profits instead of doing the best for their members. It's a conflict of interest.

[Dave-]

So how's speedway holding up?

[scott411]

So how's speedway holding up?

speedway is run thought speedway NZ now, as they run on there tracks, they are not listed on the front of the new MNZ website with the rest of the dicipline,

but MNZ would not start a private company to do anything would they?

http://www.business.govt.nz/companies/app/ui/pages/companies/3769376?backurl=%2Fcompanies%2Fapp%2Fui%2Fpages%2F individual%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dmotorcycling+New+zealand %26start%3D%26entitySearch%3D%26addressKeyword%3D% 26postalCode%3D%26country%3D%26addressType%3D%26ad vancedPanel%3Dfalse%26roleType%3DSHR%26indEntityTy pes%3DALL%26indEntityStatusGroups%3DALL%26indDirSt atus%3DALL%26sf%3D%26sd%3D

[Biggles08]

http://www.business.govt.nz/companies/app/ui/pages/companies/3769376?backurl=%2Fcompanies%2Fapp%2Fui%2Fpages%2F individual%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dmotorcycling+New+zealand %26start%3D%26entitySearch%3D%26addressKeyword%3D% 26postalCode%3D%26country%3D%26addressType%3D%26ad vancedPanel%3Dfalse%26roleType%3DSHR%26indEntityTy pes%3DALL%26indEntityStatusGroups%3DALL%26indDirSt atus%3DALL%26sf%3D%26sd%3D

WTF????? Is there no requirement of full disclosure to members to ensure no conflict of interest when you are holding a position at MNZ?

[Drew]

I'm online with my iPhone and can't find what it is that company is actually meant to do. Anyone able to condense the basics and post here?

Two directors, and only one shareholder. Who owns it outright? Carmen Davidson or Jim Tuckerman? Also, who is this Davidson woman, is she part of MNZ too?

[scott411]

I'm online with my iPhone and can't find what it is that company is actually meant to do. Anyone able to condense the basics and post here?

Two directors, and only one shareholder. Who owns it outright? Carmen Davidson or Jim Tuckerman? Also, who is this Davidson woman, is she part of MNZ too?

she is a board member, North Island Off-Road postion, the only share holder is MNZ

I have no idea what this company is set up to do, and there is no reference to it on the MNZ website,

[Pumba]

Recently registard as well. Interesting.

The only thing I can associate it with is the changes this year about supporting/sponsering riders more. I cant find what I am looking for on the MNZ website so I am not sure what its offical name is.

Maybe Billy will pop by at some stage and tell us what this new company is about when he has a free moment.

[HenryDorsetCase]

speedway is run thought speedway NZ now, as they run on there tracks, they are not listed on the front of the new MNZ website with the rest of the dicipline,

but MNZ would not start a private company to do anything would they?

http://www.business.govt.nz/companies/app/ui/pages/companies/3769376?backurl=%2Fcompanies%2Fapp%2Fui%2Fpages%2F individual%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dmotorcycling+New+zealand %26start%3D%26entitySearch%3D%26addressKeyword%3D% 26postalCode%3D%26country%3D%26addressType%3D%26ad vancedPanel%3Dfalse%26roleType%3DSHR%26indEntityTy pes%3DALL%26indEntityStatusGroups%3DALL%26indDirSt atus%3DALL%26sf%3D%26sd%3D


good lord! who runs anything serious from fucking Huntly!

[Billy]

Recently registard as well. Interesting.

The only thing I can associate it with is the changes this year about supporting/sponsering riders more. I cant find what I am looking for on the MNZ website so I am not sure what its offical name is.

Maybe Billy will pop by at some stage and tell us what this new company is about when he has a free moment.

Would love to enlighten you all,BUT,My job is to run roadracing and nothing else,I don't know anything about it and so long as it doesn't interfere with my plans,I don't much care,

Best place to find out would be the office or the board.

[Kevin G]

If any of you impassioned motorcyclists actually attended the MNZ AGM or spoke to your club or club delegates who did attend on your behalf you would fully understand as there was a 1.5 hour presentation of what Riders Division was about.

Riders division is a separate entity 100% owned by MNZ to focus on the non competitive side of motorcycling in NZ which includes Trail riding, Adventure riding, road riding etc etc. Rders Division also works with DOL and other government depts on this area and general motorcycling legislation policy etc.

There you go.

[HenryDorsetCase]

If any of you impassioned motorcyclists actually attended the MNZ AGM or spoke to your club or club delegates who did attend on your behalf you would fully understand as there was a 1.5 hour presentation of what Riders Division was about.

Riders division is a separate entity 100% owned by MNZ to focus on the non competitive side of motorcycling in NZ which includes Trail riding, Adventure riding, road riding etc etc. Rders Division also works with DOL and other government depts on this area and general motorcycling legislation policy etc.

There you go.

One question: why?

Why do you needto incorporate a separate limited liability company to undertake what must be a core function? shirley the setup and compliance cost could be spent elsewhere more ptroductively. Maybe actually doing something?

[Kevin G]

One question: why?

Why do you needto incorporate a separate limited liability company to undertake what must be a core function? shirley the setup and compliance cost could be spent elsewhere more ptroductively. Maybe actually doing something?

Mum always said if you have nothing nice to say then say nothing at all...so I will not say anything.....Talk to your club or club delegate.

[Drew]

I would have attended the AGM and loudly opposed letting MNZ have any say in road riding matters, had I known I was on the agenda. But alas I received no notification.

Why would we want this organization offering what is probably expected to be a credible opinion, but is more likely a completely out of touch view of transportation.

There are now about five groups trying to tell LTNZ how best to protect motorcyclists, that'll give whoever has to hear it all a fuckin headache! Hahahaha. We'll never be taken seriously!

[ellipsis]

If any of you impassioned motorcyclists actually attended the MNZ AGM or spoke to your club or club delegates who did attend on your behalf you would fully understand as there was a 1.5 hour presentation of what Riders Division was about.

Riders division is a separate entity 100% owned by MNZ to focus on the non competitive side of motorcycling in NZ which includes Trail riding, Adventure riding, road riding etc etc. Rders Division also works with DOL and other government depts on this area and general motorcycling legislation policy etc.

There you go.

...and it's arrogant retorts like that , that will only raise the hackles of members even more...for your info our two club delegates know 5/8ths of f.a about this set-up. They were fully involved in other aspects of road racing while there and missed the 1.5 hour presentation...if you want to treat the members like mushrooms then be prepared to be treated like the shit they spread on them to grow...the only time questions seemed to be answered is after the fact and again the old gem of " if you were there we would know"...bullshit...any remits we put forward before the AGM are kicked to the sideline if they are too sticky or ignored altogether...whats wrong with straight answers to members about their sport and what is being done to them or on their behalf...how much of the extra money collected from racers is going into these initiatives with quasi governmental agencies that want to have so much say in our sport...in the end they are all there only to justify there own existence...again, more MX and off road shit that road racers have to live with?....

[HenryDorsetCase]

Mum always said if you have nothing nice to say then say nothing at all...so I will not say anything.....Talk to your club or club delegate.

Dick.

really helpful. Thanks for that.

[Dodgy]

One question: why?

Why do you needto incorporate a separate limited liability company to undertake what must be a core function? shirley the setup and compliance cost could be spent elsewhere more ptroductively. Maybe actually doing something?

Well, it has Tuckerman listed as a director so it will likely be ill conceived and non-inclusive.

[scott411]

Mum always said if you have nothing nice to say then say nothing at all...so I will not say anything.....Talk to your club or club delegate.

I did, he mentioned something was mentioned but did not have the full details, most of the delegates seemed to not realise that they had to memoriese everything to the letter,

a bit more info that is easily available would make things a shit load easier, the company was registered before the conference, hardly a consultive approach really when it was already done, alot like the price rise of the liceinces, you did not want to take any advice on it and the decision had already been made,

[Mental Trousers]

As usual ....

http://cdn.motinetwork.net/demotivationalposters.net/image/demotivational-poster/small/1008/arguing-on-the-internet-bra-on-teats-on-bull-demotivational-poster-1281570485.jpg

[scrivy]

I would have attended the AGM and loudly opposed letting MNZ have any say in road riding matters, had I known I was on the agenda. But alas I received no notification.


No notification?? :gob: Surely not Drew??

Actually, come to think of it, I never received notification about the AGM or financials or elections of officers in the post before the AGM either. Come to think of it, I was never sent minutes of the AGM either.
So, I rang a few people (8 actually), and low and behold, they hadn't received any notification of the AGM either.
Did poor old Jimmy not want us to attend?? Is that why it was held so far away?
Did he not remember MNZ's constitutional requirements to advise their members??

How many other members never received AGM notifications?

[HenryDorsetCase]

Actually I prefer the Special Olympics one, non-pc that it is.

But the point remains, does it not, that legitemate, reasonable questions have been asked, and the people whose job it is to answer them are refusing to do so. And sure, they're volunteers and all that but the fact is they are there to do a job, they said they'd do it, and yet what comes back is smart arse comments and a smug attitude, and a refusal to engage the members directly, on probably the best way to ensure the maximum exposure especially to persons taking a casual (or at least irregular) interest.

And maybe the rank and file are being unreasonable, maybe it was discussed, maybe it is all for the good, but the point is that the people whose job it is to explain it and convince the plebs treat them with the same respect that rank and file get treated by any politician.

Bad show.

[Billy]

I did, he mentioned something was mentioned but did not have the full details, most of the delegates seemed to not realise that they had to memoriese everything to the letter,

a bit more info that is easily available would make things a shit load easier, the company was registered before the conference, hardly a consultive approach really when it was already done, alot like the price rise of the liceinces, you did not want to take any advice on it and the decision had already been made,

I spoke to Vicky at the MNZ office about this yesterday and she informed me there was a section on this subject on the old website and as soon as she has time it will be added to the new website also,Sop the info has been available for all up until a couple of weeks ago and it didnt appear to be a problem before ????

As far as the personal attacks on Jim Tuckerman are concerned and the running of MNZ Simon,Its been so long since you had any relevant input to roadracing,I doubt you'd have a clue what your talking about,If ever.

[Mental Trousers]

Actually I prefer the Special Olympics one, non-pc that it is.

As requested ....


http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1368/987251565_22ea2338dd.jpg

The other one is more appropriate though cos there sure as hell isn't going to be a winner out of this argument.

[Kevin G]

Actually I prefer the Special Olympics one, non-pc that it is.

But the point remains, does it not, that legitemate, reasonable questions have been asked, and the people whose job it is to answer them are refusing to do so. And sure, they're volunteers and all that but the fact is they are there to do a job, they said they'd do it, and yet what comes back is smart arse comments and a smug attitude, and a refusal to engage the members directly, on probably the best way to ensure the maximum exposure especially to persons taking a casual (or at least irregular) interest.

And maybe the rank and file are being unreasonable, maybe it was discussed, maybe it is all for the good, but the point is that the people whose job it is to explain it and convince the plebs treat them with the same respect that rank and file get treated by any politician.

Bad show.

Hey Tim
Sorry the simple fact is I just do not have the time to sit here and type out all the reasons and whys and wherefores. I do not disagree they are valid questions but your club selected reps to be your ears and eyes and voice, they are your best initial point of contact. As Billy has said the info was there before and it will be back on the website soon.
It is not my job to explain it to anyone. My role is as a Board Member that is responsible for governance not management or operations. Talk directly to the recreational commissioner Paul Searancke or call the office and talk to Vicky. As I need to take a day off work tomorrow to attend an MNZ board meeting in Auckland I must return to work now.

[Drew]

As requested ....



The other one is more appropriate though cos there sure as hell isn't going to be a winner out of this argument.You know something we don't bro?

Looks like MNZ have pushed something through at members cost, without disclosing it as per the constitution.

Internet or not, I'm gonna yell at any cunt about it that is responsible for it.

[Drew]

I'm pretty pissed off about this aye. I really hope that someone runs against JT again for MNZ pres, then fires him as director of this new company. That the members own, and didn't know about.

Something else that's kinda fucking me off. To all the people who did know about it, why has it not been bought up till now?

[Dave-]

Pretty sure I was invited to the AGM...

[scrivy]

Pretty sure I was invited to the AGM...

You'd know if you got the financials etc...

[Skunk]

If you have an MNZ licence you get the reports, accounts and you're invited to the AGM etc. If you don't have a licence or are not a member of an affiliated club then MNZ has nothing to do with you. I said 'you' - not the sport. If you really want to be involved in having a say in the sport join a club at least. Whining after the fact is not 'being involved'.

MNZ is the controlling body for affiliated clubs (and promotors).
Riders Division is (as I understand it) separate from MNZ and is to support non-competition based aspects of motorcycling.

[Drew]

If you have an MNZ licence you get the reports, accounts and you're invited to the AGM etc. If you don't have a licence or are not a member of an affiliated club then MNZ has nothing to do with you. I said 'you' - not the sport. If you really want to be involved in having a say in the sport join a club at least. Whining after the fact is not 'being involved'.

MNZ is the controlling body for affiliated clubs (and promotors).
Riders Division is (as I understand it) separate from MNZ and is to support non-competition based aspects of motorcycling.Pretty sure I was a member when the AGM was held.

And even if I wasn't. Since MNZ want to put their hands out for government money, to have a say in road riding, I've got as much right to know about it as you payed up members!

[scott411]

Pretty sure I was a member when the AGM was held.

And even if I wasn't. Since MNZ want to put their hands out for government money, to have a say in road riding, I've got as much right to know about it as you payed up members!

the books are pretty easy to find, http://www.business.govt.nz/companies/app/ui/pages/companies/otherSearch

not sure why the latest annual report is not up on the new website, 2010 is the last one listed,

as to the question about why it was only brought up now, I only found out about it last week as well, I check the MNZ website frequently and can not remember anything being on there, (not saying it wasn't, just i have not seen it)

[Pumba]

Hmm, well this thread stirred up a few people. Not my intention but oh well. In the interest of fair journalism MSNZ have respond in the newsletter sent out this week, so I thought I would post it up as well.


"Hi Chris

If I could just add my bit to this. Dave Dovey along with the other Directors resigned as Directors of MPL and do not have any involvement now in the decisions of that Company. Dave Dovey was appointed to the new Board which was put in place earlier in the year under the Chairmanship of John Fowke he had never taken the Company over. Kerry Cooper and Martin Fine resigned from the management side of the Company and the remaining MPL staff were made redundant when it was decided by the Shareholders that the Company cease trading. The Company is now in the hands of the owners (the shareholders) who have appointed a liquidator to wind the company up. I must correct you on the makeup of the Board of Directors on TMC/MPL which had two MSNZ appointed directors, one appointed by the shareholding clubs and two independent directors.

MPL is now out of the equation as far as the promotion of MSNZ's Championships. MSNZ's Championships, as Dave points out, are being co-ordinated by myself, Amanda and Geoff and the events run as a partnership between the Sport and its Affiliated Clubs and Circuit Owners. This arrangement is for this year only and the running and promotion of those Championships moving forward form part of the brief of the Organisational Review Panel in consultation with members.

I believe that the heading for your piece "MotorSport NZ Fiasco" is misleading. People need to get their heads around the fact that the issues currently facing the Sport have been as a result of egos and disagreement within the commercial side of the sport. MotorSport New Zealand the governing body has not been responsible for or involved in the actions that have been taken by the various groups. The important fact to remember is that Central Muscle Cars, SuperTourers, Suzuki Swift, V8 Utes are not lost as classes to New Zealand Motorsport and they continue to run and play at MSNZ permitted events under the rules and regulations set out in the National Sporting Code. Discussions between SuperTourers and MotorSport New Zealand in respect of moving forward together are progressing well.

It is also useful to note that TMC as the commercial promoter of Tier 1 did a fantastic job over many years and contributed back to the governing body and its members significant cash benefits. The company, like many, has been hit by the current economic times and the breakaway of SuperTourers from VEEGA/NZV8 and taking with it a number of competitors from the NZV8 Championship Category did not help matters either. As you rightly point out in your article, that has resulted in VEEGA taking legal action against those Directors, who at the time of that split, were Directors of VEEGA. I would like to reiterate to you, as has been previously stated, that MSNZ is not a party to that legal action.

MSNZ is in good financial heart, it has a great team of staff and it is currently undertaking a review of its organisational structure as per the Remit passed at Conference in May. There are a lot of positive things happening within our sport. Historic Racing is growing, grass roots motorsport is providing the opportunities for new competitors to get involved through an increasing number of events.

MotorSport New Zealand is committed to a vibrant and growing sport and I really think it is about time all the knocking stopped and that Clubs and individuals start assisting with some positive support rather than trying to kick the shit out of the organisation.

Regards

Brian Budd

General Manager, MotorSport New Zealand"

And


Hi team

Interesting how the rumour mill gets distorted!

As all this is going around, I thought I would give you all an update from my perspective

MPL

The MPL directors decided the best way forward, until the MSNZ constitutional review is completed, was to have MSNZ administer the championship series. The announcement was slow in coming our fuelling speculation. Did not help with TV3's slanted views either and some misleading news coming from other parties

There were a number of reasons for this decision, the main one being that MPL did not have any sufficient cash reserves and given the current climate, the sponsors were reluctant to commit until some direction was found for the coming season. MPL therefore needed to reduce costs significantly including the staff overhead and expenses. With the current staffing at MSNZ and with the welcome aid of Geoff Short and some volunteers including myself, we were confident we could put together the series with a reduced overhead structure and partnering with the ROC (Race Organising Clubs), concerned

All the directors resigned at the same time but the companies office would not allow all to resign, leaving no directors, so mine being the last name, is still there. I am working on this currently to be removed as I am not involved in any decisions currently being made

Amanda, Geoff and Brian Budd are now putting together the championship series, and my involvement is now minimal

IN my view the future success or otherwise going forward will hinge on the outcome of the talks between SuperTourers and MSNZ. Something needs to happen soon but dealing with the personalities has its challenges. I am not involved in these in any form

CMC

See also Chris Watson's perception that we kicked out CMC. As we are all aware because CMC chose to attend a SuperTourers meeting in preference to the IRC meeting they usually do, they were then only intending to do 2 of our 6 rounds. When they joined they had undertaken to do all our round but never had. After talks with John Elliot, CMC president, they agreed they were not in a position to support the IRC concept and withdrew their membership.

Interestingly SuperTourers say they are now a support class to them. Their usual one sided spin!, but the reality is CMC are doing 3 with the National Race Calendar and 3 with SuperTourers plus a independent meeting. They are truly independent and provide a great show which gives them choice

Chris,

I would welcome you sending this response to all who got your first newsletter. This will go some way to keeping the facts correct in relation to IRC anyway. I would appreciate viewing before you sent out if you intend to edit

An unhappy place Motorsport politics is currently, but I urge you all not to loose faith in those who are trying to hold it together. All takes time. There does need to be more transparency and communication from MSNZ but from seeing this from inside, my vote would be to ensure MSNZ and the sport, keep some control over the Championship series rather than to those who will use its for their own gain. Just needs more control, which has not been there in the past

Cheers

David Dovey

Chairman, Independent Race Classes Inc"

Draw you own conclusions

[ellipsis]

Hmm, well this thread stirred up a few people. Not my intention but oh well. In the interest of fair journalism MSNZ have respond in the newsletter sent out this week, so I thought I would post it up as well.
Draw you own conclusions


...all is not really well in dogzone...we need to get a little myopic at times and peer where we all think the sun shines from...