The minority may ruin it for the majority on the "Coro Loop"

[igor]

Great. We may get to suffer because of the stupidity of a few. Some of these incidents have been accidents but many have been pure stupidity.

When out riding it is a constant risk analysis, some people just don't get it. I don't really give a shite if you die, what cranks my chain are the innocents that suffer, those also include your families and friends.

safe motoring.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/news/7766079/Saddling-up-for-road-safety-project

[FJRider]

Perhaps ... if you stick to the 80 km/hr limit ... you wont suffer anything more than boredom .... :laugh:

Any faster ... and how much you suffer is entirely dependent on the number of other idiots "doing the loop" ...

[speights_bud]

So he's promoting road safety while he and his buddies ride in t-shirts? fucks sake....

[Matt Bleck]

It is extremely naive to think lowering the speed limit will help! :facepalm:

[Gremlin]

So he's promoting road safety while he and his buddies ride in t-shirts? fucks sake....
wot e sed...

Doubt lowering the limit would stop people going... just result in more tickets or a sooner loss of licence, possibly more people running as licence loss comes earlier in speed, as such...

[igor]

So he's promoting road safety while he and his buddies ride in t-shirts? fucks sake....

and I don't support the tractor brigade. That should self regulate those barges at 60kmh. That's why so many gorge marks on corners.

[Fatjim]

WTF does "20 fatal and serious crashes." mean?

Can you get fatal crashes that aren't serious?

Should it be 20 fatal or serious crashes? If so, how many fatal and how many serious.

Fuck I hate lazy reporters.

Saw this gem in the following article on stuff: http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/7769430/Student-in-butt-chugging-storm-speaks-out

"A doctor for Christchurch Hospital's emergency department said he hadn't come across butt chugging". What a lazy arse piece of reporting, with an absolutely no value statement at the end. Might as well put something like "My father has a wheelbarrow" at the end of it for all the value it adds.

[FJRider]

It is extremely naive to think lowering the speed limit will help! :facepalm:

Option 1.) ... Rebuild the roads/realign corners.

Option 2.) ... Retrain vehicle operators.

Option 3.) ... Reduce the speed limit in the affected areas.



mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm .... cheapest/quickest option is .... :facepalm:




Problem fixed ... is announced by local authorities ...

[nodrog]

It is extremely naive to think lowering the speed limit will help! :facepalm:

I think you may be right.

[Scuba_Steve]

Can you get fatal crashes that aren't serious?


course you can...


...they usually involve politicians or other such criminals :whistle:

[FJRider]

It is extremely naive to think lowering the speed limit will help! :facepalm:

Maybe .... if speed limits were obeyed.

ACC levys may not be as high

Insurance premiums (and their excess rate) would be lower.

Fewer accidents put down to rider error.

Fewer blood stains on the tarmac.

And we wont attend as many funerals ...



The solution is in our RIGHT hand.

The alternative's don't bear thinking about ... your life, your friends. YOUR choice.

[Fatjim]

I'm in Bangkok at the moment, a city of 10 million "idiots" behind the wheel/handlebars. There are very few laws here, mainly guideline. You learn to take responsibility for yourself pretty quickly. Its amazing just how well they manage to get huge amounts of traffic around the city with little fuss. Nobody gets pissy with each other for what we would think are crazy maneuvers, life just goes on, no road rage that I have seen, not even an angry honk of the horn.

Here, we seem to think that making roads "safer" makes them safer. It just makes our drivers dummer and less alert.

[FJRider]

I think you may be right.

Nah ...



Got the time ... ???

[nodrog]

Nah ...



Got the time ... ???

day time ____________________

[Kickaha]

85 per cent of motorcycle crashes happened after a rider lost control on a bend.

Motorcyclists deserve all the shit they get if that is actually correct

[FJRider]

Can you get fatal crashes that aren't serious?



Of course .. if you have NO PERSONAL INVOLVEMENT in them ...

If you do ... it becomes serious.

[G4L4XY]

Wow this is so ghey! the road on the coast up from Thames is shit, narrow, got rocks and holes on it. Come around a corner and there is a car half on your side of the road because they're fat or cannot drive (or both)
Boats and caravans don't/wont pullover whether there is a pullover area or not (sure some will but fuckall because they like to hold everyone up, it's like they get a kick out of it)

[nodrog]

Banning Aucklanders from there would result in an 87.96% reduction in fuel usage for St Johns.

[Katman]

Come around a corner and there is a car half on your side of the road because they're fat or cannot drive (or both)


Of course motorcyclists are never guilty of that.


Dickhead.

[FJRider]

SHOOTING Aucklanders would result in an 87.96% reduction in fuel usage for St Johns.

There ... fixed it for you ...

[nodrog]

Of course motorcyclists are never guilty of that.


Dickhead.

But we are allowed.

Sexyhead.

[Road kill]

In 1975 we were coming down a hill not far from Coroglen on a CB350 and a T500.

About 75 meters behind an slightly higher coming out of the last corner above Mike,I watched him tip the T500 into the sweeping down hill left hander an just carry on leaning until it looked like he was laying on the road.

Then I realised he was,,shit afternoon from then on..

Ridden it about 12 or so times since then,,fucken' neat road though aye.





Tightened speed restrictions on the loop have always just been a matter of time.

[cave weta]

"Poor handling was a factor in 60 per cent of motorcycle crashes." Bloody Harleys.....

and I should know- riding for Baz Howie and all! I do passenger Tours around the loop often for Bularangi. also I ride a variety of other bikes on the same roads. Harleys two up on that road should be banned- Its fuckin dangerous. other bikes- carry on , as you were. Just concentrate on the task and dont behave like a cage driver.

[bogan]

I thought the coro loop was the one north of that, you know, the HW25 one that goes through coromandel... or do the tractors do a different one?

[st00ji]

given the loop appears to be mostly corners, accidents happening on corners stat is fairly meaningless.

i'd be more concerned if the ratio was leaning more towards accidents on straights TBH.

lowering the speed limit is a typical arbitrary response really, with the only results likely being increased levels of speeding, tickets handed out for similar, and road rage.

PS muppets on harleys without gear in article are more deserving of your tepid wrath katman

[Geeen]

Wow this is so ghey! the road on the coast up from Thames is shit, narrow, got rocks and holes on it. Come around a corner and there is a car half on your side of the road because they're fat or cannot drive (or both)
Boats and caravans don't/wont pullover whether there is a pullover area or not (sure some will but fuckall because they like to hold everyone up, it's like they get a kick out of it)

It's a holiday destination for a fair portion of the population above the Bombay Hills and a Tourist "must see". Have some paitence

[G4L4XY]

I thought the coro loop was the one north of that, you know, the HW25 one that goes through coromandel... or do the tractors do a different one?

Yeah the one up top is the loop, the smaller one in the picture is the "mini loop"

[iYRe]

I thought the coro loop was the one north of that, you know, the HW25 one that goes through coromandel... or do the tractors do a different one?

What AE4ME said.. and most of that has 25-35-55kmh corners that most people keep pretty close to (especially when its wet).

Since when would lowering the speed limit to 80 slow motorcyclists down? 80=100=120. They'd have to lower it to 80 and put 2 way speed cameras every 500m.

[Katman]

PS muppets on harleys without gear in article are more deserving of your tepid wrath katman

Why?

When I'm road testing bikes I usually wear less than them.

[cave weta]

PS muppets on harleys without gear in article are more deserving of your tepid wrath katman

That is a file photo that they have used from a corporate ride we did at Hot Water Beach- the passengers are all offered jackets gloves and pants but some want to '
"feel the part" and just want the packet of Marlboros to tuck up the sleeve.....:facepalm:
This lot were Vodofone execs or Telecom from memory....

[98tls]

:facepalm:Here we go again,you could fill the Waikato times front to back with pictures of fat bastards riding whatever and print as many stats as you like,you could change the speed limit through such roads as often as you like it all adds up to 2 5ths of fuck all,motorcycles/ego/inability to handle either = bad shit will happen.Simple really.Threads about it wont change jack,never have and never will.

[FJRider]

given the loop appears to be mostly corners, accidents happening on corners stat is fairly meaningless.

For an accident to happen (even on a corner) ... someone has failed to keep left (TURN) Do you believe that the speed that rider/driver entered the corner would be of little importance to the end result of "somebody" being on the wrong side of the road ... ????


i'd be more concerned if the ratio was leaning more towards accidents on straights TBH.

Perhaps there are more corners than straights ... so the odds of "accidents" happening on corners would be greater .... which is shown in the statistics ...


lowering the speed limit is a typical arbitrary response really, with the only results likely being increased levels of speeding, tickets handed out for similar, and road rage.

It would increase aggro level when a previous 20 km's over the limit ticket becomes a 28 day instant walking ticket. With a possible 3 months walking followed ... after the court case. After how many of one of those tickets ... would YOU slow down ... ???


PS muppets on harleys without gear in article are more deserving of your tepid wrath katman

If they are traveling UNDER the speed limit ... and riding with all due care ... THEY are safer to have on that road that some dick on a sport bike 40 km's over the speed limit ... whatever it is ...

[Geeen]

:facepalm:Here we go again,you could fill the Waikato times front to back with pictures

:gob::gob: You've heard of the Waikato Times down there!?!

[98tls]

:gob::gob: You've heard of the Waikato Times down there!?!

Absolutely mate,"down there" and you lot have something in commom..cows,only difference being down here we milk em up there you lot :facepalm:well lets not go there eh.:shit:

[98tls]

Oh and by the way,we want our shield back eh.

[FJRider]

Absolutely mate,"down there" and you lot have something in commom..cows,only difference being down here we milk em up there you lot :facepalm:well lets not go there eh.:shit:

They only want the free milk that comes with it .. :shifty:

[FJRider]

Oh and by the way,we want our shield back eh.

This weekend it's coming back I think ... :yes:

[Voltaire]

It would be interesting to know what type of bikes were involved in 'accidents"....I'll go out on a limb and say cruiser bikes would be in the minority .....:innocent:

[FJRider]

It would be interesting to know what type of bikes were involved in 'accidents"....I'll go out on a limb and say cruiser bikes would be in the minority .....:innocent:

like harleys you mean ....??

[98tls]

It would be interesting to know what type of bikes were involved in 'accidents"....I'll go out on a limb and say cruiser bikes would be in the minority .....:innocent:

Been on a poker run lately V?Last one i went on i saw more fuck ups than i had in 30 years of riding Sportsbikes.

[igor]

It would be interesting to know what type of bikes were involved in 'accidents"....I'll go out on a limb and say cruiser bikes would be in the minority .....:innocent:

reading posts on this site used to be like reading the death notices. Seems to have slowed down a bit, Darwin may be catching up. There ant f*%k all wrong with the road I reckon. Been riding it for years.

[DEATH_INC.]

If they are traveling UNDER the speed limit ... and riding with all due care ... THEY are safer to have on that road that some dick on a sport bike 40 km's over the speed limit ... whatever it is ...
Now you sound lie a law making politician. As an experienced biker you know damn well that that statement is incorrect. Some people are safe at high speeds, some shouldn't be allowed to do 50....

[FJRider]

Now you sound lie a law making politician. As an experienced biker you know damn well that that statement is incorrect. Some people are safe at high speeds, some shouldn't be allowed to do 50....

The one's that are safe at speed dont crash ... right ... ???

And none of those people have crashed on the Coro' loop ... right ... ??

And if they did crash ... it wasn't their fault ... so speed wasn't a factor ... right ..???

[98tls]

Motorcyclists are like children they set off each day on a misson to establish boundries,sadly for many when they cross em the results far worse than a smacked arse.Nature of the beast.

[Katman]

Now you sound lie a law making politician. As an experienced biker you know damn well that that statement is incorrect. Some people are safe at high speeds, some shouldn't be allowed to do 50....

His post says "some dick on a sports bike" - not "everyone on a sports bike".

You, of all people, should understand the very real danger of idiots overstepping their ability on that road.

[Berries]

"Poor handling was a factor in 60 per cent of motorcycle crashes." Bloody Harleys.....
If you hear the term "poor handling" then you can ignore the rest of the statement. It is a convenient but misleading term to try and group a whole lot of crash factors together.

[DEATH_INC.]

His post says "some dick on a sports bike" - not "everyone on a sports bike".

You, of all people, should understand the very real danger of idiots overstepping their ability on that road.
You are right , I do.
I still stand by what I said.

[98tls]

If you hear the term "motorcyclists" then you can ignore the rest of the statement. It is a convenient but misleading term to try and group a whole lot of wankers together.

:laugh:Sorry B,couldnt help myself..:facepalm:

[Voltaire]

Been on a poker run lately V?Last one i went on i saw more fuck ups than i had in 30 years of riding Sportsbikes.

never been on a poker run....looks to me like a lot of individuals forced to ride one brand of bike....:innocent:

[DEATH_INC.]

The one's that are safe at speed dont crash ... right ... ???

And none of those people have crashed on the Coro' loop ... right ... ??

And if they did crash ... it wasn't their fault ... so speed wasn't a factor ... right ..???

Correct.

Not correct, of course some have.

I didn't say that, that would be silly.

What I will say is many have done the loop very quickly many times at 'excessive' speeds and not had an issue.

Others have not made it travelling at 'sensible' speeds.

There's a lot more to it than speed alone.

[DEATH_INC.]

Motorcyclists are like children they set off each day on a misson to establish boundries,sadly for many when they cross em the results far worse than a smacked arse.Nature of the beast.

This sums it up pretty well.
It's what makes us different to the 'normals'
Unfortunately that road often makes for serious consequences for what is often a small mistake.

[Katman]

What I will say is many have done the loop very quickly many times at 'excessive' speeds and not had an issue.

Others have not made it travelling at 'sensible' speeds.


And then there's the ones who made the mistake of tagging along on an organised ride that was clearly not designed for them.

[scumdog]

So he's promoting road safety while he and his buddies ride in t-shirts? fucks sake....


WTF?
What does T-shirts have to do with it???:confused:<_<ta

Do they make people ride badly or sommat...

[98tls]

And then there's the ones who made the mistake of tagging along on an organised ride that was clearly not designed for them.

Did someone mention Poker runs...

[DEATH_INC.]

And then there's the ones who made the mistake of tagging along on an organised ride that was clearly not designed for them.
If you are talking about what I think you are, then you are incorrect. I'll discuss it in person with you if we ever meet, but this isn't the place to go into details.

[98tls]

never been on a poker run....looks to me like a lot of individuals forced to ride one brand of bike....:innocent:

These days it seems brands not important really,far more important is to have grown bored with the loving wife and rugrats that grew up so do the walk hook up with some fat gutted slapper in stretch jeans and some cunts name tattoed on her fat arse, invest in a new made to look old leather jacket and 2 wheeled handbag and ride free like the hellion you always should have been.:laugh:

[Katman]

If you are talking about what I think you are, then you are incorrect. I'll discuss it in person with you if we ever meet, but this isn't the place to go into details.

I'll look forward to it Pontius.

[FJRider]

Correct.

Not correct, of course some have.

I didn't say that, that would be silly.

What I will say is many have done the loop very quickly many times at 'excessive' speeds and not had an issue.

Others have not made it travelling at 'sensible' speeds.

There's a lot more to it than speed alone.

If everyone that exceeded the posted speed limit on "The loop" .... and kept left. The likelyhood of an accident involving another vehicle ... would be nil.

They dont ... so the odd's say they they WILL.

And we all hope the "other" guy(s) coming the other way will be doing it right.

Your trust they WILL ... is a double edged sword ....

If they do .. your worry is for nothing. If they don't ... all your skill and ability (not to mention speed) amounts to nothing.

[baffa]

That's the "loop"? Ive always looped north, not south. Might try doing the full figure of 8 sometime

[Fatt Max]

:facepalm:Here we go again,you could fill the Waikato times front to back with pictures of fat bastards riding

OOhh, am I in the papers...????

[98tls]

OOhh, am I in the papers...????

:shit:Apologies fella,:laugh:

[Madness]

Meh.

Every year the plod & the media do their best to scare the bejesus out of anyone who'll listen by telling their stories of the death inducing Coro Loop. Whoopdedoo. What are the stats for Puhoi to Waipu? Similar I'll bet.

The councillor in the article is right about not enough places for numpties to pull over but we'll likely see the speed limit drop to 80k in certain stretches before that happens. Just as it has in Maramarua & places around Welly (Pauatahanui & Piecock). Road signs are cheaper than road works.

[98tls]

Meh.

Every year the plod & the media do their best to scare the bejesus out of anyone who'll listen by telling their stories of the death inducing Coro Loop. Whoopdedoo. What are the stats for Puhoi to Waipu? Similar I'll bet.

The councillor in the article is right about not enough places for numpties to pull over but we'll likely see the speed limit drop to 80k in certain stretches before that happens. Just as it has in Maramarua & places around Welly (Pauatahanui & Piecock). Road signs are cheaper than road works.

Had to quote to read your post:facepalm:that fucking avatar is to distracting otherwise.

[DEATH_INC.]

I'll look forward to it Pontius.
Again, when you have the facts, then name calling may be appropriate...'till then....

[nodrog]

Meh.

Every year the plod & the media do their best to scare the bejesus out of anyone who'll listen by telling their stories of the death inducing Coro Loop. Whoopdedoo. What are the stats for Puhoi to Waipu? Similar I'll bet.

The councillor in the article is right about not enough places for numpties to pull over but we'll likely see the speed limit drop to 80k in certain stretches before that happens. Just as it has in Maramarua & places around Welly (Pauatahanui & Piecock). Road signs are cheaper than road works.

every motorcyclist leaving auckland for a day trip should be issued with a doggy bag for bringing home their scraps.

[Katman]

Again, when you have the facts, then name calling may be appropriate...'till then....

Here's the facts that I have.

A KB coro ride was organised.

The tone of the ride was set long before the day of the ride dawned.

Someone on their newly purchased bike tagged along and ended up bleeding to death on the side of the road.

I'll look forward to being filled in on the finer details.

[madandy]

And then there's the ones who made the mistake of tagging along on an organised ride that was clearly not designed for them.


I turned up to one such organised ride, 2 up on a 400:laugh:

My lady (now wife) and I were stunned by the skill and precision displayed by the fast riders, Andy included but most memorable, 8 years on, was how we were welcomed and waited for by the whole group and never once was my pace dictated by another riders' speed.

It was clear we were guests of a group of mates who all rode very quickly, too fast you will argue but they didn't twist my throttle wide open and they didnt ask me to ride faster than I was capable of doing.
There were learners on 250's, plenty of 750 race replicas, old fellahs on 1200's one young 'un who asked if mine was a 1200 :no: sport bikes a plenty, mostly ridden with care for each others space onthe road.
One rider rode clear off a bank, failing completley to take a bend - his error.
Another had a chain come loose - poor maintenance.
At every intersection a rider was there waiting or us.

The lead group were (imo) in no way any more responsible for these and other misadventures than the manufactures of the bikes being ridden.

I expect you'll claim Andy is responsible because he should damn well know that other riders are gonna try to emulate his and others riding style and so he should tell these impressionable souls and those of limited abilities to stay away. There are those who need to accept they cannot beat death (Inc.) or physics but I'd ride along again, no pressure, plenty of time and plenty of stops to catch up.

Ride your own ride, be accepted and admire others for who they are, how they are & judge less.

[munster]

Been on a poker run lately V?Last one i went on i saw more fuck ups than i had in 30 years of riding Sportsbikes.
Was on one last weekend. 450 bikes, no accidents. Only 2 bikes that didn't make it back was a BMW R80 with a blown fuse and seized Vespa. Easily 90% of the bikes would have been Harley's, most of the rest were cruisers, with a sprinkling of Sports, Tourers, Adventure, Naked Sports, scooters etc thrown in for good luck.

[Katman]

Ride your own ride, be accepted and admire others for who they are, how they are & judge less.

You sound like you're easily impressed.

[munster]

I turned up to one such organised ride, 2 up on a 400:laugh:

My lady (now wife) and I were stunned by the skill and precision displayed by the fast riders, Andy included but most memorable, 8 years on, was how we were welcomed and waited for by the whole group and never once was my pace dictated by another riders' speed.

Ride your own ride, be accepted and admire others for who they are, how they are & judge less.
I've had the same experience, Thursday night South Auckland Ride (Sorry, haven't been for awhile), everyone on Buells & Aprillas and me on the M50 with my mate on the back. Kept my own pace, was waited for at every corner, no pressure to go faster at all.

[madandy]

You sound like you're easily impressed.


I was at the time, yes. Not so easily impressed upon however.

[Berries]

OOhh, am I in the papers...????
Nah, still just Target.

[trustme]

Just from memory,2 of the 20 accidents were motorcycle on motorcycle . That's 10% by my maths, without even factoring in those motorcycle accidents where no car or other factor was involved just plain old 'RIDER ERROR'. Clean up your act guys, stop looking to blame others ,we have no one to blame but ourselves, we are all accountable.

[DMNTD]

I turned up to one such organised ride, 2 up on a 400:laugh:

My lady (now wife) and I were stunned by the skill and precision displayed by the fast riders, Andy included but most memorable, 8 years on, was how we were welcomed and waited for by the whole group and never once was my pace dictated by another riders' speed.

It was clear we were guests of a group of mates who all rode very quickly, too fast you will argue but they didn't twist my throttle wide open and they didnt ask me to ride faster than I was capable of doing.
There were learners on 250's, plenty of 750 race replicas, old fellahs on 1200's one young 'un who asked if mine was a 1200 :no: sport bikes a plenty, mostly ridden with care for each others space onthe road.
One rider rode clear off a bank, failing completley to take a bend - his error.
Another had a chain come loose - poor maintenance.
At every intersection a rider was there waiting or us.

The lead group were (imo) in no way any more responsible for these and other misadventures than the manufactures of the bikes being ridden.

I expect you'll claim Andy is responsible because he should damn well know that other riders are gonna try to emulate his and others riding style and so he should tell these impressionable souls and those of limited abilities to stay away. There are those who need to accept they cannot beat death (Inc.) or physics but I'd ride along again, no pressure, plenty of time and plenty of stops to catch up.

Ride your own ride, be accepted and admire others for who they are, how they are & judge less.

You sound like a bit of a hoon mister :scooter:

[Matt Bleck]

Maybe .... if speed limits were obeyed.

:clap: :laugh: IF they where, then dropping the speed limit would help, but normally the ones that smer themselves on the road don't OBEY speed limits! Do you get it now? :facepalm:

[duckonin]

Leave the speed limit alone 80 kph in this day and age with powerful vehicles is asking for trouble. I could imagine the trouble at that speed during holiday periods :facepalm:. The Coro loop is all good as a road goes, it has its limitations in areas. Police presence lacks badly around most of the Coro:yes: WE all know what the trouble is, it is not a race track.
Unfortunately there seems to be an awful lot of motorcyclists that think it is and use it as one.

Where we live you can hear a bike/bikes coming from a good distance. We are not far from the edge of a town. On the weekends I would estimate 10 bikes over two days would go past out property in excess of 140-170/plus kph, I would say that maybe conservative on a warm weekend also.

Bullarangi would love to see the coro regulated to 80kph that way he could justify not having to pull over/let past faster traffic. Bullarangi is a tour operator and gives his fare paying passengers a good safe ride around the Coro at a speed which would be very enjoyable . They paid to see the beauty of the Coro, not just a wizz and fizz. I laugh when talking to those on faster machines when we are told "it costs $300/$400 for a rear tyre and I can do one in in 2000 k's" ha ha what a jerk, it is know wonder these idgits only ride 1500/2000 k's a year:laugh:.

[Premature Accelerato]

So if poor handling has been identified as one of the causes of these crashes, perhaps ACC/Govt/Trans NZ could subsidise us all with Ohlins units for our bikes

[bogan]

we are all accountable.

What the fuck did I do? I've never even ridden the coro loop (did part of it in a Van once though). Guess it government problem solving policy though, group by easily identifiable characteristics, then add extra tax.

[imdying]

What sort of faggot promotes motorcycling safety whilst wearing a short sleeve shirt, a piss bowl, and no gloves :facepalm:

[MIZXR]

What sort of faggot promotes motorcycling safety whilst wearing a short sleeve shirt, a piss bowl, and no gloves :facepalm:

Those that want acc to pay for a helper to wipe their arse when they fall off at standstill. Typically harley or scoot riders.

[FJRider]

:clap: :laugh: IF they where, then dropping the speed limit would help, but normally the ones that smer themselves on the road don't OBEY speed limits! Do you get it now? :facepalm:

Considering that most of "the Loop" consists of road that could be dangerous at 100 kms/hr. ALL the corners will have speed advisory signs ... and are largely ignored by motorcyclists in general. But in any case of an "incident" ... the "I wasn't speeding" (over the posted limit) gets trotted out ....

Overcooking a corner happens (I have done this myself) and you find yourself on the wrong side of the centerline. Often you get away with it ... a few near-misses. Maybe a collision ... or just an off. (with or without other vehicles involved)

The few fast, talented riders capable riders are still at risk ... because unless they KNOW they are the only vehicle on that road at that time ... there is still the chance that some numpty will still be in the wrong place (FOR YOU) at the wrong time.

The attitude of many ... "I can ... so I will" has passed it's expiry date. The reduction in speed limit on that road will change many of the charges laid by police from careless use ... to DANGEROUS .... (AND MAY STILL DO SO IF IT'S NOT LOWERED)

It's a very public, and very popular road. Not a private racetrack for self-centered egotists ...

Regardless of any posted speed limit on that road ... expect it to be heavily policed ... and expect to be stopped, and charges laid ... OFTEN. Even if no "incident" occurs.

[trustme]

What the fuck did I do? I've never even ridden the coro loop (did part of it in a Van once though). Guess it government problem solving policy though, group by easily identifiable characteristics, then add extra tax.

Harley riders blame the sprot bikers, sprot bikers blame the cruiser boys. We are all in it together, we are all accountable because ultimately we are all affected.

[BigAl]

Meh, who wants to live forever?

[p.dath]

Meh, who wants to live forever?

Forever is a far away concept, but I'd like to see the day out.

[scumdog]

What sort of faggot promotes motorcycling safety whilst wearing a short sleeve shirt, a piss bowl, and no gloves :facepalm:

Yeah, WTF, don't they realise that being dressed like that will cause them ride in a far more dangerous manner and crash more frequently than if they were dressed like a 'tooth-past tube'......<_<:rolleyes:

[bogan]

Harley riders blame the sprot bikers, sprot bikers blame the cruiser boys. We are all in it together, we are all accountable because ultimately we are all affected.

Ahhh, the governments version of accountability; don't think it has worked yet, but I guess an employee has to tow the line right?

[pritch]

With friends like Baz Howie who needs enemies. If he wants to ride slower he can. There are enough stretches of highway becoming 80kph limit without a motorcyclist asking for more.

Maybe they could have a 50kph limit just for Harley riders?

[SPman]

His post says "some dick on a sports bike" - not "everyone on a sports bike".

You, of all people, should understand the very real danger of idiots overstepping their ability on that road. But I've never seen Death do it.
....mind you....it's been a while........:innocent:

[Matt Bleck]

Considering that most of "the Loop" consists of road that could be dangerous at 100 kms/hr. ALL the corners will have speed advisory signs ... and are largely ignored by motorcyclists in general. But in any case of an "incident" ... the "I wasn't speeding" (over the posted limit) gets trotted out ....

Overcooking a corner happens (I have done this myself) and you find yourself on the wrong side of the centerline. Often you get away with it ... a few near-misses. Maybe a collision ... or just an off. (with or without other vehicles involved)

The few fast, talented riders capable riders are still at risk ... because unless they KNOW they are the only vehicle on that road at that time ... there is still the chance that some numpty will still be in the wrong place (FOR YOU) at the wrong time.

The attitude of many ... "I can ... so I will" has passed it's expiry date. The reduction in speed limit on that road will change many of the charges laid by police from careless use ... to DANGEROUS .... (AND MAY STILL DO SO IF IT'S NOT LOWERED)

It's a very public, and very popular road. Not a private racetrack for self-centered egotists ...

Regardless of any posted speed limit on that road ... expect it to be heavily policed ... and expect to be stopped, and charges laid ... OFTEN. Even if no "incident" occurs.

Dude, you are completely missing my point here. And it is this, if the powers that be think that by dropping the speed limit it will have an impact on the sort of fatalities that result from speed, ie, over cooking a corner and hitting a car, or the bank, or, or, or, then they are living in a fairy tale land. They will happen regardless of the speed limit, people will all ways make bad decisions, some live and some die and some kill other people.

[Katman]

But I've never seen Death do it.


<img src="http://i.istockimg.com/file_thumbview_approve/16733520/2/stock-photo-16733520-the-wrong-end-of-a-stick.jpg"/>

[FJRider]

Dude, you are completely missing my point here.

And you missed my point. As is usual after an accident ... guilty parties are usually charged. With a lower speed limit .... the charges laid on the offending rider/driver go up a few notches ...

A dangerous driving causing death /injury charge could ruin your day. Even if no other vehicles are involved ... charges would certainly be laid if police attending, decided their discretion to charge WAS warranted. I would guess they're sick of picking bodies out of the scrub ... and telling mothers/partners their beloved is dead. So don't expect any sympathy from them after a minor off.

With a limit of 80 km'/hr ... being caught at 120 could see you walking for 28 days ... prior to the court case that may see a further 3 months (6 months if a dangerous charge is laid as well)

Survivors of the Loop ride may find their pockets a little lighter ... and a bit healthier after all the walking. But it is an individuals choice what speed they do the loop at. And official warnings have already been given. Heed them or ignore them .... your choice.



Feeling lucky ... ???

[Matt Bleck]

And you missed my point. As is usual after an accident ... guilty parties are usually charged. With a lower speed limit .... the charges laid on the offending rider/driver go up a few notches ...

A dangerous driving causing death /injury charge could ruin your day. Even if no other vehicles are involved ... charges would certainly be laid if police attending, decided their discretion to charge WAS warranted. I would guess they're sick of picking bodies out of the scrub ... and telling mothers/partners their beloved is dead. So don't expect any sympathy from them after a minor off.

With a limit of 80 km'/hr ... being caught at 120 could see you walking for 28 days ... prior to the court case that may see a further 3 months (6 months if a dangerous charge is laid as well)

Survivors of the Loop ride may find their pockets a little lighter ... and a bit healthier after all the walking. But it is an individuals choice what speed they do the loop at. And official warnings have already been given. Heed them or ignore them .... your choice.



Feeling lucky ... ???

No, actually i didn't miss your point, I've seen a rider who was doing below the posted speed limit, hit ripples in the seal, panic stand the bike up and drift to the other side of the road! It was pure luck that a vehicle wasn't coming the other way and wipe them out! They where traveling at a speed that I know they could of easly could of rounded the corner had they not panicked! What they lacked was experience/ability/training. Dropping the speed limit is a band-aid fix mate!!! Why not speed limit EVERY vehicle on the road. If the max NZ speed limit is 100kph why are vehicles sold that will do 200+? Isn't that entrapment?

Do I feel lucky? Hell yeah I get to race a near on 190bhp Superbike LEGALLY at 200+K's down the main street of Paeroa!!!!!! :Punk:

I haven't ridden the loop for along time and I don't plan to, there's far better roads with a lot less dick heads on it, so drop the speed limit to 80k's, no skin of my nose. :Police:

[nodrog]

No, actually i didn't miss your point, I've seen a rider who was doing below the posted speed limit, hit ripples in the seal, panic stand the bike up and drift to the other side of the road! It was pure luck that a vehicle wasn't coming the other way and wipe them out! They where traveling at a speed that I know they could of easly could of rounded the corner had they not panicked! What they lacked was experience/ability/training. Dropping the speed limit is a band-aid fix mate!!! Why not speed limit EVERY vehicle on the road. If the max NZ speed limit is 100kph why are vehicles sold that will do 200+? Isn't that entrapment?

Do I feel lucky? Hell yeah I get to race a near on 190bhp Superbike LEGALLY at 200+K's down the main street of Paeroa!!!!!! :Punk:

I haven't ridden the loop for along time and I don't plan to, there's far better roads with a lot less dick heads on it, so drop the speed limit to 80k's, no skin of my nose. :Police:

Do you wanna root?:love:

[FJRider]

No, actually i didn't miss your point, I've seen a rider who was doing below the posted speed limit, hit ripples in the seal, panic stand the bike up and drift to the other side of the road! It was pure luck that a vehicle wasn't coming the other way and wipe them out! They where traveling at a speed that I know they could of easly could of rounded the corner had they not panicked! What they lacked was experience/ability/training. Dropping the speed limit is a band-aid fix mate!!! Why not speed limit EVERY vehicle on the road. If the max NZ speed limit is 100kph why are vehicles sold that will do 200+? Isn't that entrapment?

Thing is ... could easily is a lot different to DIDN'T ... and that rider didn't. And as you said them ... so ... I assume there was a pillion he put at risk too. Very clever. And he wouldn't be the first to put their pillion through that too.

The sad fact is ... not everybody is as experienced (and lucky) as you. Official policy on road legislation is graded to the lowest common denominator ... hence the more idiots that stuff up, the more restrictions on that (any) piece of road.

If you believe that it doesn't make it fair on experienced skilled riders ... (life isn't always fair) that is (again) your choice/opinion. And the powers that be that make those decisions ... don't give a toss what YOU believe.


I haven't ridden the loop for along time and I don't plan to, there's far better roads with a lot less dick heads on it, so drop the speed limit to 80k's, no skin of my nose. :Police:

I've done the road twice ... and will make no special effort to do it again. As you say ... better roads with less dickheads (especially down here) so I get to keep the skin on my nose too ...

[Blackbird]

I live in Coromandel and ride on those roads several times a week so feel reasonably qualified to comment. I don't think lowering the speed limit will do a damned thing because the serial speeders will still speed and take their chances. Having said that, I'd be interested in whether most of the accidents are at "real speed" or maybe under 80km/hr in the tight stuff.

Having said all that, I've got to say that it's individual riders who have to carry the can for their poor situational awareness (including red mist on group rides). There's basically no such thing as bad roads, just a failure to read the conditions and ride accordingly. As someone else said, it all comes down to personal responsibility for riding well, which isn't the same thing at all as riding slowly. When KB members have been asked in the past how many have got off their arses and done proper roadcraft courses (as opposed to trackdays), there's normally only a handful, yet we love to slag off cage drivers........:facepalm:

[FJRider]

When KB members have been asked in the past how many have got off their arses and done proper roadcraft courses (as opposed to trackdays), there's normally only a handful, yet we love to slag off cage drivers........:facepalm:

I haven't seen a Roadcraft course that could match/train for conditions similar to those on "The Loop"... a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing ...

Some riders even see The Loop ... as a chance to push (prove ???) themselves to their own limit. Sadly ... they usually find it sooner than they think they would.

[Blackbird]

I haven't seen a Roadcraft course that could match/train for conditions similar to those on "The Loop"... a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing ...

Some riders even see The Loop ... as a chance to push (prove ???) themselves to their own limit. Sadly ... they usually find it sooner than they think they would.

There's nothing intrinsically wrong with the Loop, just poor riders. I'd agree with your comments about roadcraft in general but be assured that the IAM-based training is one that really delivers, using UK police rider training as the basis. You've got to be pretty committed to pass though :yes:

[FJRider]

There's nothing intrinsically wrong with the Loop, just poor riders. I'd agree with your comments about roadcraft in general but be assured that the IAM-based training is one that really delivers, using UK police rider training as the basis. You've got to be pretty committed to pass though :yes:

I did it in the early 80's (on a GS1000)... and enjoyed it. (Mid-week though) Was a great piece of road.

I thought it had it's fair share of idiots then too ...

[Gianz]

Just make the all loop one way. that would work.

[Road kill]

I did it in the early 80's (on a GS1000)... and enjoyed it. (Mid-week though) Was a great piece of road.

I thought it had it's fair share of idiots then too ...

I first did it in the early 70's "Honda CB350".

Had it's fair share of hippys then.

One of them even suggested the use of my bike engine to power a small timber mill,,,,sort of went off hippys about then.

[FJRider]

I first did it in the early 70's "Honda CB350".

Had it's fair share of hippys then.

One of them even suggested the use of my bike engine to power a small timber mill,,,,sort of went off hippys about then.

Was it a twin or the four ... ???

[Banditbandit]

Been on a poker run lately V?Last one i went on i saw more fuck ups than i had in 30 years of riding Sportsbikes.

Yup. THat's why I NEVER ride runs organised by Harley owners ...

[Banditbandit]

Was it a twin or the four ... ???

Hippies can come in twins .. I have never seen them as fours ...

[imdying]

Yeah, WTF, don't they realise that being dressed like that will cause them ride in a far more dangerous manner and crash more frequently than if they were dressed like a 'tooth-past tube'......<_<:rolleyes:Wow, you Harley boys must have really advanced clothing if it can alter the way you ride and the way your bike handles things like diesel spills! :rolleyes:

[Drew]

Fuck! I've been a KB member for so long it seems, that all threads are almost exactly the same now.

Bikers wont admit their own retardedness is MOSTLY the reason they fell off. They also won't accept that something needs to be done to lower our injury numbers.

[Drew]

The one's that are safe at speed dont crash ... right ... ???

And none of those people have crashed on the Coro' loop ... right ... ??

And if they did crash ... it wasn't their fault ... so speed wasn't a factor ... right ..???Why the need for such stupid statements? Putting your own biased words in a mouth doesn't make a point, it makes you look like a cock.


Here's the facts that I have.

A KB coro ride was organised.

The tone of the ride was set long before the day of the ride dawned.

Someone on their newly purchased bike tagged along and ended up bleeding to death on the side of the road.

I'll look forward to being filled in on the finer details.And this is the fault of the other riders or ride organiser how?

If I organise a ride with a bunch of dudes who ride at my pace to come along, and some other dude shows up, I'm not gonna take responsibility for him, as I wouldn't for any of the other guys on the ride.

[Blackbird]

.........they also won't accept that something needs to be done to lower our injury numbers.

Completely agree but whilst official expectations for national driving standards are so low, it would be bloody hard to legislate it. Until then, it will be up to individual riders to accept that upskilling would be a smart move and that's about as likely as the average cage driver doing the same! :innocent:

[Drew]

Completely agree but whilst official expectations for national driving standards are so low, it would be bloody hard to legislate it. Until then, it will be up to individual riders to accept that upskilling would be a smart move and that's about as likely as the average cage driver doing the same! :innocent:

I know exactly what needs to happen to lower our road toll. But the general public wont accept they suck at driving/riding, so it's doomed really.

[Fatjim]

There isn't an answer. Unfortunately too much human factor involved as riding isn't just about getting from point A to point B.

[Katman]

If I organise a ride with a bunch of dudes who ride at my pace to come along, and some other dude shows up, I'm not gonna take responsibility for him, as I wouldn't for any of the other guys on the ride.

I'm not suggesting it's (nescessarily) the organisers responsibility if things turn to shit.

I'm pointing out the very real danger of getting a collection of motorcyclists together for a group ride where there is a wide (and unknown) spread of abilities.

[Maha]

I'm not suggesting it's (nescessarily) the organisers responsibility if things turn to shit.

I'm pointing out the very real danger of getting a collection of motorcyclists together for a group ride where there is a wide (and unknown) spread of abilities.

We have the very scenario on our group rides Steve.
The group is divided into smaller more managable groups, of no more than eight.
There are 5-6 ride rules that are laid out before we set off.
Experienced riders at front and rear that I trust, and they know what is expected from the ride.

I would take it personally if something went tits up...
The worst we have had to endure, is the odd U turn, which all adds to the nature of the ride as far as we are concerned.
Long may it continue.

[FJRider]

Why the need for such stupid statements? Putting your own biased words in a mouth doesn't make a point, it makes you look like a cock.

I was referring to the post quoted below. If you choose to take it out of context ... that's your problem. Nobody is safe "At high speed" ... there are enough things that can go wrong at the speed limit. No matter how well you know the road ... it can only be as you remember it was, the last time you went over it. Less than half a day can have changes that could kill you at sedate speeds ... be it a diesel spill or loose gravel on your braking points. Or has been mentioned ... another vehicle right where you want to be.

Fault would then be left for the judge (or coroner) to decide.

If you couldn't see the point of my quote ... perhaps you're not as intelligent as I gave you credit for. MY mistake ... I wont make it again.


Now you sound lie a law making politician. As an experienced biker you know damn well that that statement is incorrect. Some people are safe at high speeds, some shouldn't be allowed to do 50....


And this is the fault of the other riders or ride organiser how?

If I organise a ride with a bunch of dudes who ride at my pace to come along, and some other dude shows up, I'm not gonna take responsibility for him, as I wouldn't for any of the other guys on the ride.

It's not so much FAULT ... but more "guilt by association" ... they were on your ride and so you allowed their behaviour. Some judges (and coroners) can take a dim view of that too.

[Road kill]

Was it a twin or the four ... ???

A twin,,the four was still a couple of years away,,then came the 400/4,,and the 550/4,,and the 750/4.

The 550 was the best but the others were also pretty good:yes:

[FJRider]

A twin,,the four was still a couple of years away,,then came the 400/4,,and the 550/4,,and the 750/4.

The 550 was the best but the others were also pretty good:yes:

I have ridden all them. Although the 350/4 was quick ... (and as smooth as it's build era would allow) the twin was actually faster.

[Road kill]

Wow, you Harley boys must have really advanced clothing if it can alter the way you ride and the way your bike handles things like diesel spills! :rolleyes:

Been on two KB riders,,bad crashes on both of em'.
A couple of months later two KB'ers died on the Coro loop.
The worst thing about it was you could almost pick them at the start of both rides.

Went on a mixed ride put on by the Triumph owners last year,,the worst an most dangerous riders by far were "a few guys" on large Jap cruisers.

Everybody else,HD,Dukes,Triumphs of both era's,mixed Jap Sport bikes,,,all more or less behaved themselves well an got on bloody fine.

[Drew]

I was referring to the post quoted below. If you choose to take it out of context ... that's your problem. Nobody is safe "At high speed" ... there are enough things that can go wrong at the speed limit. No matter how well you know the road ... it can only be as you remember it was, the last time you went over it. Less than half a day can have changes that could kill you at sedate speeds ... be it a diesel spill or loose gravel on your braking points. Or has been mentioned ... another vehicle right where you want to be.

Fault would then be left for the judge (or coroner) to decide.

If you couldn't see the point of my quote ... perhaps you're not as intelligent as I gave you credit for. MY mistake ... I wont make it again.





It's not so much FAULT ... but more "guilt by association" ... they were on your ride and so you allowed their behaviour. Some judges (and coroners) can take a dim view of that too.

No one gives me credit for any intelect. It would make them an idiot.

The term used should have been "higher speed", rather than "high speed", so lets clear that up before we continue.

The question is ability in this instance, and what you said flat out leaves NO room for it. People I invite on rides have it, (in fuckin spades considering how slow we're going), so I think they're less likely to crash.

[jrandom]

I'm keen to head to the Coro loop this summer and race some Harley riders, I reckon I'll clean up.

[bogan]

Nobody is safe "At high speed" ... there are enough things that can go wrong at the speed limit. No matter how well you know the road ... it can only be as you remember it was, the last time you went over it. Less than half a day can have changes that could kill you at sedate speeds ... be it a diesel spill or loose gravel on your braking points. Or has been mentioned ... another vehicle right where you want to be.

Don't forget about boredom. If the speeds are too low road users pay less attention to their driving, less attention is longer reaction times. It may be that a bored driver's delay in reacting to a hazard means they hit it quicker than a faster but more attentive driver.

Riding 'ahead' of your sightlines is a whole other issue which shouldn't be confused with speed limits.

[FJRider]

No one gives me credit for any intelect. It would make them an idiot.

As I said ... I wont be as idiotic in future ... :shifty:


The term used should have been "higher speed", rather than "high speed", so lets clear that up before we continue.

"Should have" is a commonly used term ... after a crash too ... :shutup:

But the (my) quote was on what he DID say :angry:


The question is ability in this instance, and what you said flat out leaves NO room for it. People I invite on rides have it, (in fuckin spades considering how slow we're going), so I think they're less likely to crash.

Regardless of the amount of ability a rider has ... "having it in spades" will amount to fuck all ... if they're on the wrong piece of road, at the wrong time.

I hope they're feeling lucky too ... :laugh:

[Drew]

As I said ... I wont be as idiotic in future ... :shifty:You'll feel better for the mistake in the morning, countless have before you.




"Should have" is a commonly used term ... after a crash too ... :shutup:Out of context, but nice try.


But the (my) quote was on what he DID say :angry:But you didn't try and understand the meaning, before jumping on the soap box. I know you will try and consider this, we've spoken and you are reasonable.




Regardless of the amount of ability a rider has ... "having it in spades" will amount to fuck all ... if they're on the wrong piece of road, at the wrong time.

Speed makes no difference in the wrong place, at the wrong time. What makes the difference is the rider being alert and on the case!

[Drew]

VIGILANCE people. The key to fuckin salvation I say!

That was the word I should have used last paragraph, of my last post.

[FJRider]

Riding 'ahead' of your sightlines is a whole other issue which shouldn't be confused with speed limits.

Depending on the quality of your headlight (most are actually poor) ... it may be ... that it IS very much to do with speed limits. Until you KNOW how far ahead you can see in regards to your stopping ability ... it would be foolish to assume the open road limit is safe for you on your bike.

Having spent many hours riding in darkness ... in all hours of the night .... over many years. I have had more problems with what I haven't seen ... than what I can, and had seen ... in my lights.

[jrandom]

Having spent many hours riding in darkness ... in all hours of the night .... over many years.

I remember this one time when I'd just switched from a bike with a headlight that turned with the bars to a bike with a fairing-mounted headlight, and then rode from Tauranga to Rotorua via Pyes Pa at midnight in heavy rain, I was going slow enough that I was doing whatever the opposite of countersteering is, and I was subconsciously expecting the headlight to turn with the bars and light up the exit of the corner, but it wasn't, and that fucked me up and made me go even slower, and it became a vicious circle of cold, wet fail.

I'm glad it wasn't a group ride.

Edit: By way of explanation, I was on Metzeler Tourances and I'd had a great big moment heading south along SH2 to Tauranga that afternoon that'd completely put me off them. Worst road tyres in the wet I've ever had the displeasure of riding on, with the exception of the OEM BT020s that came on my GSX1400.

[FJRider]

I remember this one time when I'd just switched from a bike with a headlight that turned with the bars to a bike with a fairing-mounted headlight, and then rode from Tauranga to Rotorua via Pyes Pa at midnight in heavy rain, I was going slow enough that I was doing whatever the opposite of countersteering is, and I was subconsciously expecting the headlight to turn with the bars and light up the exit of the corner, but it wasn't, and that fucked me up and made me go even slower, and it became a vicious circle of cold, wet fail.



The older "Faired" bikes did have an issue of not showing much of the sides of the road. What you describe was a common complaint then. And can be STILL on restored bikes. I know of two "off's" in the last two years with this issue.

[jrandom]

The older "Faired" bikes did have an issue of not showing much of the sides of the road.

Yeah.

It was a 1988 DR750 BIG.

You'd definitely want to do finger-quotes around 'faired'.

[Gremlin]

Don't forget about boredom. If the speeds are too low road users pay less attention to their driving, less attention is longer reaction times.
They lay that one on fatigue.

[gammaguy]

Edit: By way of explanation, I was on Metzeler Tourances and I'd had a great big moment heading south along SH2 to Tauranga that afternoon that'd completely put me off them. Worst road tyres in the wet I've ever had the displeasure of riding on, with the exception of the OEM BT020s that came on my GSX1400.

The Tourance is not a road Tyre,it is an adventure tyre and as such has a reduced contact area on tar seal

All tyres are a compromise,and a full road tyre would possibly not grip as well as a Tourance on a gravel track

yer pays yer money.......

[jrandom]

The Tourance is not a road Tyre,it is an adventure tyre and as such has a reduced contact area on tar seal

Yeah. I worked that one out while sideways. Should maybe have had a more in-depth discussion with the man at the shop before I told him to put on whatever would work well.

[Maha]

VIGILANCE people.

Never heard of them....what do they sing?

[Drew]

Never heard of them....what do they sing?

Prolly too heavy for your tastes.

[Maha]

Prolly too heavy for your tastes.

JB covers?.....:facepalm:

[Drew]

JB covers?.....:facepalm:

One direction.

[Banditbandit]

I remember this one time when I'd just switched from a bike with a headlight that turned with the bars to a bike with a fairing-mounted headlight, and then rode from Tauranga to Rotorua via Pyes Pa at midnight in heavy rain, I was going slow enough that I was doing whatever the opposite of countersteering is, and I was subconsciously expecting the headlight to turn with the bars and light up the exit of the corner, but it wasn't, and that fucked me up and made me go even slower, and it became a vicious circle of cold, wet fail.

I'm glad it wasn't a group ride.

Edit: By way of explanation, I was on Metzeler Tourances and I'd had a great big moment heading south along SH2 to Tauranga that afternoon that'd completely put me off them. Worst road tyres in the wet I've ever had the displeasure of riding on, with the exception of the OEM BT020s that came on my GSX1400.


The older "Faired" bikes did have an issue of not showing much of the sides of the road. What you describe was a common complaint then. And can be STILL on restored bikes. I know of two "off's" in the last two years with this issue.

Hang about .. the differences between a fork mounted light on a naked bike and a fairing mounted light should have nothing to do with how you can see around a corner at night!!! To turn a bike you turn the bars only at very low speed ... you do not turn the bars, and therefore the light, at any normal riding speed.

In normal riding you lean the bike, and don't turn the bars - in fact counter-steering suggests a very small amount of turn on the forks on the opposite direction from the corner ... but that won't be the case in reality ..

If you are relying on a fork mounted headlight to see around corners at night, as you turn the bars, then you are doing it wrong.

And if you are turning the forks into a corner ... then you are doing it so wrong you have a much higher chance of falling off ...

[Banditbandit]

One direction.

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Drew again."

[jrandom]

... you do not turn the bars, and therefore the light, at any normal riding speed.

Like I said. Pitch black, pissing down, 35kph signposted corners on an unfamiliar road, and tyres that I'd lost all trust in a few hours prior.

I wasn't going at any normal riding speed.


If you are relying on a fork mounted headlight to see around corners at night...

What exactly do you suggest I rely on to see around corners at night, old bean? Ultrasonic bat goggles?


And if you are turning the forks into a corner ... then you are doing it so wrong you have a much higher chance of falling off ...

You don't actually have a clue what you're talking about, do you?

<img src="http://i50.tinypic.com/2hprcx1.jpg"/>

[bogan]

Depending on the quality of your headlight (most are actually poor) ... it may be ... that it IS very much to do with speed limits. Until you KNOW how far ahead you can see in regards to your stopping ability ... it would be foolish to assume the open road limit is safe for you on your bike.

Having spent many hours riding in darkness ... in all hours of the night .... over many years. I have had more problems with what I haven't seen ... than what I can, and had seen ... in my lights.

You contradict yourself, if it is foolish to assume the open road speed limit is safe due to bike/rider differences, then how is it very much to do with speed limits?

I'm not just talking about night riding, I mean corners and shit. Which is why sightlines are a different issue to speed limits, unless you want to put up different limits each time a corner comes up it has to be riders choice to ensure they are not outriding the visible bit of the road.

[Drew]

You don't actually have a clue what you're talking about, do you?That's photoshopped. He's not counter steering!

[jrandom]

That's photoshopped.

True. I should've noticed.

Next thing you know, someone on the internet will try to have us believing that shaft drives can wheelie.

[Drew]

True. I should've noticed.

Next thing you know, someone on the internet will try to have us believing that shaft drives can wheelie.Witches, the lot of them I tell ya!

[jrandom]

Witches, the lot of them I tell ya!

Burn them.

[FJRider]

Hang about .. the differences between a fork mounted light on a naked bike and a fairing mounted light should have nothing to do with how you can see around a corner at night!!! To turn a bike you turn the bars only at very low speed ... you do not turn the bars, and therefore the light, at any normal riding speed.



Although what you say is correct ... it was the greatest factor that really caused the off, that issue was in the riders head. Especially at LOW speed. (at rally sites was the most noticed and funniest time)Those not used to chassis fitted fairings had the biggest problem ... (Old school riders with their NEW recent purchase/modification)

The early chassis fitted fairings (on some) had a very narrow beam. Usually non factory fitted and not well set up/thought out ... often with the headlight recessed slightly into the fairing. (which didn't help either) and turning the bars to get a better look at the corner (again ... old school riders) DID have issues of it's own. (as you may imagine)

[FJRider]

You contradict yourself, if it is foolish to assume the open road speed limit is safe due to bike/rider differences, then how is it very much to do with speed limits?

I'm not just talking about night riding, I mean corners and shit. Which is why sightlines are a different issue to speed limits, unless you want to put up different limits each time a corner comes up it has to be riders choice to ensure they are not outriding the visible bit of the road.

You MAY be able to see 200 meters of reflective road markers ... but bugger all else. (maybe some cats-eyes if the road is flat enough ... and the road has any) and the old brain fills in the gaps (so to speak) Unless the rider is very familiar with that particular piece of road ... assumptions on what they think is there, are not actually correct.

Sometimes the headlight beam is wide ... showing the sides of the road up quite well. And the road markers out to 100 meters are seen, but blackness after that. At 100 kms/hr ... that 100 meters arrives pretty dam quickly. Non reflective things (Animal or mineral) on the road surface may not be seen until 50 meters out. Again ... at 100 kms/hr ... not much time for good avoidance plans to be devised. Most just go with swerve to avoid (without slowing) .... and without being able to see that far ahead ... (and looking at what you're trying to miss) not always the best option.

Corners (most of them anyway) already have limits posted ... but who takes notice of them ... eh ... !!!

Those that don't do much night riding/driving have little idea how little they actually can see ... and how little time they have to stop in time if they do see something. But the are confident that their speed isn't excessive ... especially if they're on or under the limit. Those OVER the limit only look for other vehicles coming in the distance. Looking where the marker posts are seen to end. (not in close) and tunnel vision sets in. Dangerous enough in daytime.

Some people aren't safe at 80 kms at night. Some just get lucky at 100 kms. And some I would follow at any speed THEY are traveling at ... And I imagine you know at least one person in each of those three groups.

[Banditbandit]

Like I said. Pitch black, pissing down, 35kph signposted corners on an unfamiliar road, and tyres that I'd lost all trust in a few hours prior.

I wasn't going at any normal riding speed.

35kph is not that slow ... I wouldn't be turning the forks at that speed, I'd be using lean ..


What exactly do you suggest I rely on to see around corners at night, old bean? Ultrasonic bat goggles?

Use you're eyes .. and as has been said - don't corner at speed if you can'tr see around the corner within a braking distance ... especially true at night ...




You don't actually have a clue what you're talking about, do you?



That bike is a low speed - and yes, I would proably turn the bars there too ... and I probably have more clue about what I am talking about than you do - I'll place good money on me having bought my first bike before you were born and never been without one ...

[sidecar bob]

I'll place good money on me having bought my first bike before you were born.

A little presumptuous to think that older is smarter dont you think? If that were the case, the Wright brothers' father would have been the first man to fly a plane.

[jrandom]

I'll place good money on me having bought my first bike before you were born.

Being an old dumb cunt who doesn't know what he's doing doesn't make you any less of a dumb cunt who doesn't know what he's doing.

:sunny:

[Banditbandit]

A little presumptuous to think that older is smarter dont you think? If that were the case, the Wright brothers' father would have been the first man to fly a plane.

No .. you kids know nothing .. that would be Richard Pearse's father !!!!


Being an old dumb cunt who doesn't know what he's doing doesn't make you any less of a dumb cunt who doesn't know what he's doing.

:sunny:

Oh .. I agree .. totally ...

In this case I do know what I am talking about ... If you think I do not know ... go and try it out .. you don't need to do it at night .. just get out on the road, find a corner you can ride around at, say, 65 klicks ... then go and try to take the corner at 65 klicks by not leaning but by turning the forks into the corner ... or you can try leaning AND turning the forks ... Just don't come back to try to blame me if you fuck up badly ..

[Banditbandit]

Although what you say is correct ... it was the greatest factor that really caused the off, that issue was in the riders head. Especially at LOW speed. (at rally sites was the most noticed and funniest time)Those not used to chassis fitted fairings had the biggest problem ... (Old school riders with their NEW recent purchase/modification)


Being OLD school myself - I know exactly - I never had a faired bike until the end of last Century ... and yes - at low speed I would turn the forks and the light would not move ... BUGGA

On the open road it was in my head for a short while - until I realised that I never cornered by turning the forks, so whether the headlight was on the forks or in the fairing, it did not matter ..

[jrandom]

If you think I do not know ... go and try it out .. you don't need to do it at night .. just get out on the road, find a corner you can rider around at, say, 65 klicks ... then go and try to take the corner at 65 klicks by not leaning but by turning the forks into the corner ...

65kph?

Maybe you did actually miss what I was implying.

35kph signposted corners, pitch black, pissing down, tyres that I'd been unexpectedly sideways on in the wet earlier that day - if it's not obvious how one would tend to handle that situation, I was travelling at more like 20kph.

I also neglected to mention the endless sequence of those orange "caution slippery road" signs all the way along, which did nothing except leave me terrified about invisible tar bleed leaping up and biting me in the arse (I've binned braking into a corner on tar bleed on a back road in heavy rain late at night in the past, so I'm leery of it).

You don't need to worry about educating the audience here about countersteering, I can assure you. It's been touched on once or twice on the internet before now.

[sidecar bob]

No .. you kids know nothing ..

PMSL!!! Im ten nek birthday.

[Banditbandit]

I remember this one time when I'd just switched from a bike with a headlight that turned with the bars to a bike with a fairing-mounted headlight, and then rode from Tauranga to Rotorua via Pyes Pa at midnight in heavy rain, I was going slow enough that I was doing whatever the opposite of countersteering is, and I was subconsciously expecting the headlight to turn with the bars and light up the exit of the corner, but it wasn't, and that fucked me up and made me go even slower, and it became a vicious circle of cold, wet fail.



That's what you said .. and you are right !!! You were expecting the headlight to turn - and it was not ... You had a mistaken idea that the light turns when it is mounted ont he forks - that only occurs at low speed ...

Yes, that weather at night will slow you down. I always slow down in the rain - less grip - and I slow down at night - because it's harder to see around corners ... so I'd slow down even more in the rain at night ...


65kph?

Maybe you did actually miss what I was implying.

35kph signposted corners, pitch black, pissing down, tyres that I'd been unexpectedly sideways on in the wet earlier that day - if it's not obvious how one would tend to handle that situation, I was travelling at more like 20kph.

I also neglected to mention the endless sequence of those orange "caution slippery road" signs all the way along, which did nothing except leave me terrified about invisible tar bleed leaping up and biting me in the arse (I've binned braking into a corner on tar bleed on a back road in heavy rain late at night in the past, so I'm leery of it).

Yep, tar bleed is always dangerous .... especially bad around the Bay of Plenty ... I'm always leery of it ...


You don't need to worry about educating the audience here about countersteering, I can assure you. It's been touched on once or twice on the internet before now.

I'm not trying to educate you about counter steering - you obviously use it ... you'd learnt to use it when you did Pye's Pa Road at night ...

Think about the dynamics .. at anything above 20 ks (educated guess .. not a physicist) when you turn the forks the power is pushing forward, through the line of the bike, and across what is now the direction of the weel/tyre - across the grip on the road ... because the front wheel is no longer in line with the rear wheel ...

When you lean and counter steeer, the push is still forward .. but now it's through the front wheel, which is in line with the rear ... and the wheel rolls normally - no sideways push.

So if you turn the fork and hit seal bleed, the push is most likely to shove your front wheel across the line of the tyre - and you drop it ... if you counter steer and lean, then the push through both wheel even on seal bleed will keep the tyre rotating nornmally ...