Rattling noise from my Baotian

[GDOBSSOR]

Bought a 50cc baotian almost six months ago. No incident up til now (has about 4600 ks on the clock btw and has been serviced about every 1500 ks).

Sept 21st - was coming home from work and heard rattling noise coming from engine when I tried to push scooter above 40 and also noticed an occasional burning smell. I asked my mechanically minded friend about it. He checked air filter, fuel gage and looked at exhaust (although he couldn't check exhaust thoroughly). He saw a hose that seemed to be disconnected but he couldn't see what it was discoonected from.

I took it to Scooterazzi as it was reccommended by said friend who is an experienced motorcyclist. They said they'd have a look. Monday - get a call. "Nothing wrong with it." Tuesday, they find that it's running lean so they correct that and let me take it home.

Saturday, I am on my way to a friend's house when the engine starts making an incredibly rough grinding noise and won't go above 30kph at all. When I pull over, engine cuts out. I wheel it to my friend's house which was fortunately down the road.

When I got it home, it took Dad about eight tries to start it. This has never happened before. When it finally started, it made an incredibly rough idling noise, and when he revved the engine, it made an incredibly rough grinding noise. When he took his hand off the throttle, the engine cut out.

When we got it back to Scooterazzi the next Tuesday, I described all this to them and told them that I was too afraid to ride it or let anyone else ride it, and to make sure it was in good working order before giving it back. They gave it back the following Thursday at a cost of $300, having replaced the drive belt and clutch and sheaves. It started okay, but vibrated when idling.

The following day, on my way to work, it started making the rattling noise AGAIN, after I had spent $300 on getting rid of the problem. I managed to get home in one piece, but it now makes a loud rattling noise if I accelerate, decelerate or ride above 40kph.

I am a student and I don't have a lot of money. I rely on that scooter to get to work and lectures. At the moment, I'm afraid to ride it for fear it could break down completely on me again. I personally don't find this acceptable after having spent $300 and explicitly telling them I wanted the scooter in working order so I could have people test ride it (I want to sell it to get a motorbike).

Any idea as to what the hell this problem could be and any idea as to what my rights are?

[jellywrestler]

is it a two stroke or a four stroke?

[FJRider]

Get your mum to start it ... I always got my mum to start mine ...




It's probably fucked though ... I'll give ya $5.00 for it. (Delivered) :innocent:

[p.dath]

I'll take a guess it had more than one problem, and your $300 in vestment has solved the first bunch of problems, and now you are onto the next problem.

Does the problem only happen when the motor is warm?

[Jantar]

Less than 6 months old, and less than 5000km. Surely it still has a new vehicle warranty. Get the dealer to fix it for free.

[FJRider]

I had to google them ... I've never heard of them.

Made in China .... I'll say no more.

Dimensions: 1850x680x1150
Weight: 92 kg
Max Load: 150 kg
Engine Type: 1 Cylinder, 4 Stroke
Engine Size: 49cc
Max Power: 2.61kW/8,000rpm
Max Torque: 3.56N.m/5,500rpm
Max Speed: 45km/h Limited
Wheel Size: Front 12
Brakes Front: Discs
Brakes Rear: Drum
Start Method: Electric/Kick
Battery: 12v
Fuel Tank Capacity: 4.0L
Fuel Consumption: <2.0L/100km

[speedpro]

Being a chinese made scooter I'm surprised you found anybody willing to work on it.

Your initial description made me think serious engine problems like crank bearings. My Italian made Yamaha scooter had a vaguely similar sounding fault, twice. Turned out to be the big end had chewed the hardening off the pin. If you are riding it hard, which on this 2.6Kw scooter would be trying to do 50kmh, unless it's been made with quality parts you can expect problems I think.

Sorry I can't think of anything quick to check. A very careful look at the oil under a strong light would be a good idea. Pull the dipstick out and look for any sparkles in the oil. Sparkles will be bearing material which is not good.

[FJRider]

Being a chinese made scooter I'm surprised you found anybody willing to work on it.

Your initial description made me think serious engine problems like crank bearings. My Italian made Yamaha scooter had a vaguely similar sounding fault, twice. Turned out to be the big end had chewed the hardening off the pin. If you are riding it hard, which on this 2.6Kw scooter would be trying to do 50kmh, unless it's been made with quality parts you can expect problems I think.

Sorry I can't think of anything quick to check. A very careful look at the oil under a strong light would be a good idea. Pull the dipstick out and look for any sparkles in the oil. Sparkles will be bearing material which is not good.

4500 km's at (or near) max speed can't be good for a 50cc engine ... I'm still going with "It's fucked" ... and the $5.00 offer still stands. (delivered)

[Crasherfromwayback]

.

Any idea as to what the hell this problem could be and any idea as to what my rights are?

The problem you have is, as has been mentioned, they're not of very good quality. Mark and his workers at the Scooter joint were brave even looking at it for you. They may well have fixed one issue, only for it to have several more (also as mentioned). It does sound like a crank type issue, and it won't be worth fixing if it's not covered by some type of warranty. Buy one of the known brands next time, and you'll be sweet.

[FJRider]

I personally don't find this acceptable after having spent $300 and explicitly telling them I wanted the scooter in working order so I could have people test ride it (I want to sell it to get a motorbike).

Any idea as to what the hell this problem could be and any idea as to what my rights are?

Perhaps ... comments like that wont make you friends at the scooter place.

Were the reasons you bought it ... ???????

1. It was cheap.

2. It was new ... and cheap.

3. You looked at other scooters ... but that one was cheaper.

.................................................. ................................................

[davereid]

Any idea as to what the hell this problem could be and any idea as to what my rights are?

These little chinese scooters use a copy of a Honda motor. Quality varies widely, but generally isn't very good.

You may have a claim if you got the bike from a dealer, but if privately purchased or from TradeMe, you don't really have any comeback.

Scooterrazzi surprised me by even looking at at. When I had "Scooters Plus" we soon learned the hard way that no matter what you spend on those little chinese scooters they will haunt you, so we soon stopped touching them.

NZ has a wide range of good quality scooters available, and they are seldom much more than the cheap chinese ones. We sold Peugeot and TGB, and I can say we had a good run from both. My own TGB has now done > 45000 km with only a set of rings, and thats an hours work.

Most of the Taiwanese bikes will do these kinds of mileages, and the jappas are all very good as well. The Honda Today is chinese, but Honda keep an eye on the manufacturing, and I have not heard of any premature failures on them, and they are only $2k brand new.

Rather than continuing to throw money at your cheap scooter, it may be time to look at a better quality bike.

[GDOBSSOR]

I'll take a guess it had more than one problem, and your $300 in vestment has solved the first bunch of problems, and now you are onto the next problem.

Does the problem only happen when the motor is warm?

Yes the problem only happens when the motor is warm. I don't think I can just take it back to the shop as it is actually 18 months old (I am second owner). I would if I could. It is ok when it idles. Thing is, I know people who have bought Chinese scooters and they've had problems with them from day one. This is the first real issue it's had in 4500 ks of motoring so I'd still like to see if something can be done. I admit I probably was a bit quick to attack Scooterazzi.

[Crasherfromwayback]

. I admit I probably was a bit quick to attack Scooterazzi.

Good girl. Mark's a decent chap.

[GDOBSSOR]

Good girl. Mark's a decent chap.

I don't really want to make any enemies... Thing is, the last two weeks have been incredibly stressful. Without my vehicle, I can't function properly. Hence the language.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Thing is, the last two weeks have been incredibly stressful. Without my vehicle, I can't function properly. Hence the language.

I bet. Being without wheels sucks serious arse. I'll keep my eye out for a good scooter for you. I work for Wellington Motorcycles and sometimes get some cheap but goodins traded in. I personally sold a very good Honda DJ1 for $800.00 a few weeks back. Looked after it'll last for years.

[Jantar]

.. I don't think I can just take it back to the shop as it is actually 18 months old (I am second owner). ....

Oh dear. In that case I feel very sorry for you. You initially asked for advice on this forum when you were first looking for a bike. The best advice given to you was to get a GN or a Scorpio, either would have suited your needs.

If you look back back through various similar threads you would find that almost everyone advises against cheap chinese scooters.

There is nothing you can do now to change what you have, so as I see it you have three choices:
1. Ride it as is until it completely dies, then dump it. That may give another one or two trips if you ride very very quietly.
2. Sell it as is and buy someyhing better. Pete at Wellington Motorcycles has already offered to try and assist, and I can assure you that he does look after his customers.
3. Spend what ever it costs to get your Baotian going properly and it may last you another six months.

I realise that you are a student and on a limited budget so you will have to weigh up your options carefully. If you do decide to replace it then please ask on here for someone experienced to look at your prospective purchase first. We may seem cruel, but really we are here to help each other.

[GDOBSSOR]

I bet. Being without wheels sucks serious arse. I'll keep my eye out for a good scooter for you. I work for Wellington Motorcycles and sometimes get some cheap but goodins traded in. I personally sold a very good Honda DJ1 for $800.00 a few weeks back. Looked after it'll last for years.

I don't want a new scooter actually. I want a motorbike as I've done my basic handling skills course with a guy named Leigh Elliott (who btw I'd recommend to anyone here). I actually wanted a motorbike to start with, but I had an overbearing partner at the time who thought that he knew best (he didn't) and that I didn't have 'the right personality' for a motorbike and would very quickly get sick of it, especially as I can't afford a car as well, and that would mean I'd have to ride it in the rain/hail/sleet etc. He told me to get a scooter as a compromise, as I supposedly wouldn't lose as much money if I got sick of it. I haven't got sick of riding and still want a motorbike, but have ended up losing as much money buying a scooter. Having said that, my ex partner would have been able to fix it.

[GDOBSSOR]

Oh dear. In that case I feel very sorry for you. You initially asked for advice on this forum when you were first looking for a bike. The best advice given to you was to get a GN or a Scorpio, either would have suited your needs.

If you look back back through various similar threads you would find that almost everyone advises against cheap chinese scooters.

There is nothing you can do now to change what you have, so as I see it you have three choices:
1. Ride it as is until it completely dies, then dump it. That may give another one or two trips if you ride very very quietly.
2. Sell it as is and buy someyhing better. Pete at Wellington Motorcycles has already offered to try and assist, and I can assure you that he does look after his customers.
3. Spend what ever it costs to get your Baotian going properly and it may last you another six months.

I realise that you are a student and on a limited budget so you will have to weigh up your options carefully. If you do decide to replace it then please ask on here for someone experienced to look at your prospective purchase first. We may seem cruel, but really we are here to help each other.
I'll see exactly what the problem is and how dire it is. Number 3 may be worth a shot. But... if it is successfully fixed, it'll be sold off. If it isn't successfully fixed it'll be sold as is. I'll put the difference toward a new bike on my student loan. I do have some money saved but how much I want to dig into it is another question.

[jellywrestler]

1. Ride it as is until it completely dies, then dump it. yep and it may give up the ghost all at once, lock up the rear wheel and spit you under a truck, then you'll have no worries whatsoever, just make sure your life insurance is paid up.

[Crasherfromwayback]

I don't want a new scooter actually. I want a motorbike as I've done my basic handling skills course with a guy named Leigh Elliott (who btw I'd recommend to anyone here). I actually wanted a motorbike to start with, but I had an overbearing partner at the time who thought that he knew best (he didn't) and that I didn't have 'the right personality' for a motorbike and would very quickly get sick of it, especially as I can't afford a car as well, and that would mean I'd have to ride it in the rain/hail/sleet etc. He told me to get a scooter as a compromise, as I supposedly wouldn't lose as much money if I got sick of it. I haven't got sick of riding and still want a motorbike, but have ended up losing as much money buying a scooter. Having said that, my ex partner would have been able to fix it.

Well I'll let you know if I come across a reliable cheap motorcycle then! Good job he's an 'ex' Sounds like a twat.

[GDOBSSOR]

Oh dear. In that case I feel very sorry for you. You initially asked for advice on this forum when you were first looking for a bike. The best advice given to you was to get a GN or a Scorpio, either would have suited your needs.

If you look back back through various similar threads you would find that almost everyone advises against cheap chinese scooters.


Improvement of sorts.
I got hold of the original dealer who sold the scooter and he came and looked at it. We disagreed over whether there was anything wrong with it... BUT... he said that it was okay to be sold, and if the next owner had issues, he'd fix them.

[Jantar]

.... BUT... he said that it was okay to be sold, and if the next owner had issues, he'd fix them.

Get that in writing and include it in the sale.

[GrayWolf]

Improvement of sorts.
I got hold of the original dealer who sold the scooter and he came and looked at it. We disagreed over whether there was anything wrong with it... BUT... he said that it was okay to be sold, and if the next owner had issues, he'd fix them.

the only other possible solution I could think of suggesting, and its a huge longshot really... is either contact Bryce at bike bits (breakers network) or, find out which Honda scooter the Baotan is a copy of, and just maybe? A s/hand honda scooter/motor could turn up. Then there could still be issues for matching the wiring etc, or possibly fitting panels/bodywork from the two to build one 'reasonable'? ride. Even if a honda engine is well used, it is probably going to last a reasonable length of time, the Japanese made scooters seem to withstand immense amounts of abuse... I used to Watch Eugene (Wuzard) riding his one up and down my road and you would not BELIEVE what he would do to that poor wretched scooter, those who know him will be right now nodding their heads knowing full well what a maniac he could be...

Other than that? I guess sadly you'll have to 'bite the bullet', because unless you are a 'heartless, scruple-less bitch', which you certainly dont seem to be. You wont want to sell it to another unsuspecting poor sod.

[FJRider]

I got hold of the original dealer who sold the scooter and he came and looked at it. We disagreed over whether there was anything wrong with it... BUT... he said that it was okay to be sold, and if the next owner had issues, he'd fix them.

But won't fix them for you ??? (free)

If you sell it ... sell AS IS. In writing with the signature of the buyer on it ... accepting that.

[GDOBSSOR]

But won't fix them for you ??? (free)

If you sell it ... sell AS IS. In writing with the signature of the buyer on it ... accepting that.

Too late now :/ The buyer purchased sight unseen and they live in the next suburb over so I can't understand why they didn't ask to have a look at it. There were two other people I had come and look at it and I told those two people the truth - that it had had work done on it, that two mechanics had said it was ok to sell but I wasn't convinced, but I wasn't 'mechanically minded'. I then got the original dealer in after two people had come to test ride it to see whether I needed to pull it from auction and he said no. I asked him if he was sure, and he said yes, and that he'd help them with any issues.

I then sold it on the original dealer's advice and said, "I am selling it to get a motorbike. This is what happened to it (...) I've had three mechanics including the original dealer tell me it's ok to sell, so I'm relying on their advice because I don't really know about these things. Any problems, call these guys (hands them dealer's card)." And left it at that.

[GDOBSSOR]

But won't fix them for you ??? (free)

If you sell it ... sell AS IS. In writing with the signature of the buyer on it ... accepting that.

He did come and look at it, free of charge. He basically said he didn't think there was anything wrong with it after test riding it. I disputed that, but he said that if I was right, the next buyers could call him (as I was very shortly planning to sell it).

[FJRider]

Too late now ...

A happy ending I hope then...

New bike hunting then ...

[GDOBSSOR]

the only other possible solution I could think of suggesting, and its a huge longshot really... is either contact Bryce at bike bits (breakers network) or, find out which Honda scooter the Baotan is a copy of, and just maybe? A s/hand honda scooter/motor could turn up. Then there could still be issues for matching the wiring etc, or possibly fitting panels/bodywork from the two to build one 'reasonable'? ride. Even if a honda engine is well used, it is probably going to last a reasonable length of time, the Japanese made scooters seem to withstand immense amounts of abuse... I used to Watch Eugene (Wuzard) riding his one up and down my road and you would not BELIEVE what he would do to that poor wretched scooter, those who know him will be right now nodding their heads knowing full well what a maniac he could be...

Other than that? I guess sadly you'll have to 'bite the bullet', because unless you are a 'heartless, scruple-less bitch', which you certainly dont seem to be. You wont want to sell it to another unsuspecting poor sod.

Let auction run. Was honest with people who came to test ride it. It sold to someone who bought it sight unseen in the end (And I can't understand why because they lived within walking distance of my house). It's a copy of a Gy6 engine, which is fairly easy to work on, but hasn't been used by Honda for years. If it's the tranny or the engine that's the problem, I guess the original dealer would have a spare one of those around at not too great a cost. I think that I've done the best I can with the knowledge I have and it's not my fault if someone doesn't google the brand name and decides they don't need to test ride a vehicle before buying.