Engine mount bolts?

[puddytat]

Trying to track down annoying vibrations on my TLR250 so I thought I'd check the bolts......was surprised to find slop between the bolt & engine mounts, like there's about a millimeters difference between the two.All the bolts are the same.
Theres no obvious wear so is it like this, to allow for thermal expansion/frame flex ?
Or should they be snug like?

Have pulled rear linkages apart & theyre as rooted as expected on a 26year old bike & are in the process of "renewing" but it feels more like
an engine/frame thing. Swingarm is fine. So are the steering head bearings.
Cant find anything obvious with the frame though its rather "flexible',the slogged out sumpguard judders & squeaks

Worst vibes are at higher revs ,uphill under power.....

[FJRider]

Rubber bushings missing ... ???

[Ocean1]

Rubber bushings missing ... ???

Pretty sure there's none.

Any reason you can't just torque up the front ones? The one at the swingarm pivot might be a problem, if it's been loose it's almost certainly worn the spacers. Think the only thing is to pull the swingarm out of it and measure up the swingarm and frame and any spacers through the bearings. You'll need to do that to replace the bearings anyway.

[puddytat]

Rubber bushings missing ... ???

Nah,I dont think there's enough room for a bush....its like the bolts are a mm too small,though they look OEM.
The only rubber bush Ive found is top of the shock & its out of round, so I will get a new 'un for it
I made some rubber bushes for the bash plate when I first got the bike as I thought it could be coming from that but alas its not so.

Could some kind of wonkiness from the motor be the problem?

[FJRider]

its like the bolts are a mm too small,though they look OEM.
The only rubber bush Ive found is top of the shock & its out of round, so I will get a new 'un for it
I made some rubber bushes for the bash plate when I first got the bike as I thought it could be coming from that but alas its not so.

Could some kind of wonkiness from the motor be the problem?

Try larger bolts ... can't hurt ... and maybe a cheap fix. (or a cheap TRY to fix)

Find a trials club ... and ask ...

Somebody will know ALL about them.

[puddytat]

Pretty sure there's none.

Any reason you can't just torque up the front ones? The one at the swingarm pivot might be a problem, if it's been loose it's almost certainly worn the spacers. Think the only thing is to pull the swingarm out of it and measure up the swingarm and frame and any spacers through the bearings. You'll need to do that to replace the bearings anyway.

Jeez , in for a penny in for a pound:laugh: yeah may as well go the whole hog seeing as its laying all around the place.
The spacers for the engine mount bolts (other than the lower mount which doesnt seem to have any) are seemingly unworn . But its to dark to see at the moment so I'll look in the morning.
Cheers!

[Ocean1]

Jeez , in for a penny in for a pound:laugh: yeah may as well go the whole hog seeing as its laying all around the place.
The spacers for the engine mount bolts (other than the lower mount which doesnt seem to have any) are seemingly unworn . But its to dark to see at the moment so I'll look in the morning.
Cheers!

Well, dude, it's not getting any better any other way.

Only likely difficulty is getting the swingarm pivot bolt out if it's seized. Got a manual?

BTW, bolts are supposed to have clearance in the holes, typically 1/2 a mm or so, if they've been loose it's quite likely they've flogged the holes out a bit more. For the front ones I wouldn't worry about it, as long as they torque up and clamp the engine it'll be good.

[puddytat]

Try larger bolts ... can't hurt ... and maybe a cheap fix. (or a cheap TRY to fix)

Find a trials club ... and ask ...

Somebody will know ALL about them.

Yes to No:1
Yes to No:2
And I hope so to No:3!!
Nelsons got a good Trials club so I will try & get to one of their meets soon
Nelson also has a Gent called Vin Orr, who is a whizz when it comes to Hondas..I'll have to ask him very nicely to have a look at it as he is quite busy in his retirement I understand...

[puddytat]

Well, dude, it's not getting any better any other way.

Only likely difficulty is getting the swingarm pivot bolt out if it's seized. Got a manual?

BTW, bolts are supposed to have clearance in the holes, typically 1/2 a mm or so, if they've been loose it's quite likely they've flogged the holes out a bit more. For the front ones I wouldn't worry about it, as long as they torque up and clamp the engine it'll be good.

Aaah is Japan model...only print in Japan. Me no able find.
Thats what I needed to hear Ocean, had a feeling that it may be so to have some clearance.
Hopefully the swingarm bolts not seized, but it does have a handy grease nipple which I hope someone other than me has at sometime in its prevoius life, used.

[FJRider]

Yes to No:1
Yes to No:2
And I hope so to No:3!!
Nelsons got a good Trials club so I will try & get to one of their meets soon
Nelson also has a Gent called Vin Orr, who is a whizz when it comes to Hondas..I'll have to ask him very nicely to have a look at it as he is quite busy in his retirement I understand...

Somebody agrees with me .... :wings:

Seriously though ... remember the purpose for which it was built. Trials. Low speed. Just enough rev's to do what is necessary. often just at idle speed. If you try to get it doing ... what it was not designed to do .. expect issues.

[puddytat]

Somebody agrees with me .... :wings:

Seriously though ... remember the purpose for which it was built. Trials. Low speed. Just enough rev's to do what is necessary. often just at idle speed. If you try to get it doing ... what it was not designed to do .. expect issues.

Hmmmmm, food for thought:corn:
A bloke I know who rides a Beta ,when he rode it said I had to little slack in the throttle & the suspension was to hard. Im used to a more''tighter" feeling roadbike .
He did think though that the vibes wernt normal....so its a process of elimination me thinks.

[FJRider]

Hmmmmm, food for thought:corn:
A bloke I know who rides a Beta ,when he rode it said I had to little slack in the throttle & the suspension was to hard. Im used to a more''tighter" feeling roadbike .
He did think though that the vibes wernt normal....so its a process of elimination me thinks.

More questions for the trials club.

[puddytat]

Yup, I reckon....

I got the linkages out today & they'll need new roller bearings & bronze bushes as well as new inserts in to the rollers thru which the bolts go...& one special shaft bit thats the top pivot of the linkage will need either building up then milled to size as its corroded or a new one made. Dont think it'll be worth trying to get a new one as its bad enough trying to get a front sprocket.
The shock will need a service & the top bolt/mount bush'll need replacing.
Oh & the seat need recovering as the missus's fucking horse took a bite out of it yesterday:laugh:
Oh & a new fork brace/mudguard thing needs to be found or made.

[FJRider]

Yup, I reckon....

I got the linkages out today & they'll need new roller bearings & bronze bushes as well as new inserts in to the rollers thru which the bolts go...& one special shaft bit thats the top pivot of the linkage will need either building up then milled to size as its corroded or a new one made. Dont think it'll be worth trying to get a new one as its bad enough trying to get a front sprocket.
The shock will need a service & the top bolt/mount bush'll need replacing.
Oh & the seat need recovering as the missus's fucking horse took a bite out of it yesterday:laugh:
Oh & a new fork brace/mudguard thing needs to be found or made.

Sounds like plenty of reasons for it not to feel right ... and horses are only dog food well stacked ...

[pete376403]

If tightening the engine mount bolts doesn't help, ream the holes out to a easy push fit for the next size larger bots. I had to do this with an old JAP speedway bike motor, which shook like a dog shitting a length of chain. (JAPs had magnesium cases, which would flog out badly if the bolts were not kept tight) After the bolts were done the engine was relatively (500 single) smooth

[puddytat]

Cheers for that, will keep it in mind:yes:

[actungbaby]

Trying to track down annoying vibrations on my TLR250 so I thought I'd check the bolts......was surprised to find slop between the bolt & engine mounts, like there's about a millimeters difference between the two.All the bolts are the same.
Theres no obvious wear so is it like this, to allow for thermal expansion/frame flex ?
Or should they be snug like?

Have pulled rear linkages apart & theyre as rooted as expected on a 26year old bike & are in the process of "renewing" but it feels more like
an engine/frame thing. Swingarm is fine. So are the steering head bearings.
Cant find anything obvious with the frame though its rather "flexible',the slogged out sumpguard judders & squeaks

Worst vibes are at higher revs ,uphill under power.....

When you say linkages i assume you mean the prolink suspension , the ones in my xr 200 1990

Where completly shaged the roller bearings all fell out, the engine bolts should have no play in them

Are the bolts all done up tight treads all in good shape

[puddytat]

When you say linkages i assume you mean the prolink suspension , the ones in my xr 200 1990

Where completly shaged the roller bearings all fell out, the engine bolts should have no play in them

Are the bolts all done up tight treads all in good shape

yup, In the prolink suspension, similar state as yours.
Have checked all the bolts, threads seem fine,made some temporary shims for around the bolt shafts out of thin aluminium to see if that helps. Found one bolt at the bottom mount that had the wrong nut (cap type) so it couldnt do up tight I think, so will get a new 'un.
Tried to get the swingarm shaft out & couldnt, gave it a good:bash:& its not moving:no: Any ideas or just smash it harder? Or will it be bound on the bearings?
When fluffing about with it I noticed that the nut side of the shaft , doesnt sit centre in its hole so wondering wether if its bent, or bearings collapsed on one side? Pretty meaty bolt so I'd be surprised if its bent...

[actungbaby]

yup, In the prolink suspension, similar state as yours.
Have checked all the bolts, threads seem fine,made some temporary shims for around the bolt shafts out of thin aluminium to see if that helps. Found one bolt at the bottom mount that had the wrong nut (cap type) so it couldnt do up tight I think, so will get a new 'un.
Tried to get the swingarm shaft out & couldnt, gave it a good:bash:& its not moving:no: Any ideas or just smash it harder? Or will it be bound on the bearings?
When fluffing about with it I noticed that the nut side of the shaft , doesnt sit centre in its hole so wondering wether if its bent, or bearings collapsed on one side? Pretty meaty bolt so I'd be surprised if its bent...

I didnt have to much trouble getting swing arm of, but my really old xl 100 k2 (1977)

its like welded on i gave up years ago on that one think have to cut it of .

With your swing arm bolts just like ever thing leverage is your friend if your using socket put

A hollow tube like pipe so you can easily get the nut undone that way it make it easy.

Also u can get kits with all the bearings as honda part order i think, i havent got that far