Lack Of Silence Of The LAMS - A Good Idea

[rastuscat]

Heads up to those 6L and 6R folk who are going to ride LAMS bikes.

Don't think that every Popo who stops a LAMS-reliant learner or restricted rider will know their stuff about LAMS. The degree of knowledge is depending on their experience with and interest in bikes.

Instead, carry a copy of the NZTA list of approved bikes, showing your bike model, and proving that you are allowed to ride it.

Yes, the Popo should know, and it's up to them to prove it, blah blah blah. Still, it's easier to pull the list out and prove you're in the right then to have to argue about the ticket that shouldn't have been written in the first place.

Simple ideas, nearly always the best.

I'll attach one, when I can work out how. Also, PM me your email address, I'll email it to you. Or you can go to the NZTA link here

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/licence/getting/docs/lams-list.pdf

Hi ho, off to the Donut shop I go.

:)

[imdying]

This is your answer to being employed in a job that has ongoing training requirements? Seriously?

I've got another idea... how about actually knowing about the offending that you're policing?

[SVboy]

Play nice ImDying, I agree with your point, but this is proactive policing and a helpful gesture. Obviously the Popo are going to target learners as the new regs bed in, so an L plater with a list in their pocket proving the legality of their IT 490!!! or other more suitable bike can feel smug.

[imdying]

Play nice ImDying, I agree with your point, but this is proactive policing and a helpful gesture. Obviously the Popo are going to target learners as the new regs bed in, so an L plater with a list in their pocket proving the legality of their IT 490!!! or other more suitable bike can feel smug.Policing laws you don't understand can't be consider proactive in any sense of the word.

[rastuscat]

Dude, I know the law. Training in every thing we are expected to know would see us spending our entire careers training.

Next time you need a cop how would it feel if we said sorry, were all busy training.

Join up, you'll be great. Seems you know everything. We could use a gem like you.

[nosebleed]

Dude, I know the law...

Waiting in anticipation for the new avatar
If you can grab one in 3D, even better.

[oneofsix]

Policing laws you don't understand can't be consider proactive in any sense of the word.

In plenty of company lately. Top spy agency not knowing who they aren't allowed to spy on, Dept of Labour not understanding the laws around who they can investigate, and you expect some poor old over worked popo what sees an L plater wobble by on a 500 to know that the law has just changed? Would be nice but it would also be nice, and wise, for said L-plater to carry enough info in their pocket to show the law change and their bike on the list, save the L-plater heaps of time.

The number of L-platers or potential L-platers that don't know that a law directly affecting them is changing it is little wonder a weigh station attendant wont.

Reckon Rustus deserves donuts not brick bats for the warning.

[jellywrestler]

Dude, I know the law. Training in every thing we are expected to know would see us spending our entire careers training.

fuck you think that's hard, what about us, we're expected to know the law, and remember it at 2am or so when we're ripped, at least you get paid to learn it and police it when you're straight; notwithstanding sugar highs from the donut fetish's!

[willytheekid]

Policing laws you don't understand can't be consider proactive in any sense of the word.


I already ride around with a peice of paper that says I can legally use bus lanes!...been stopped twice for it.
I carry the paper because the first time I was stopped and politely explained its legal to do so in chch...I nearly got roughed up for arguing?:shit::laugh:(Eh-He was one of the angry young ones:yes:...but he came around in the end {always be polite!})...The second time Iwas stopped, I had my peice of paper on me that clearly stated my rights in regards to chch bus lanes:niceone:...the officer read it, laughed, and said "wow, I should really know this stuff lol...have a great day")

...there just humans mate (They can't be expected to know everything!...and that LAMS list is a friggin mess!:laugh:)

(besides, whats hard about carrying a bit o paper wif ya?)

...as ya were Ras

ps:...ya still havn't said what the new bike is!...its churman int it!:laugh:...common share the new toy pics etc

[imdying]

Dude, I know the law. Training in every thing we are expected to know would see us spending our entire careers training.I will take your word for it. But I have to assume the other police officers drive around handing out tickets for laws that they don't understand?


Next time you need a cop how would it feel if we said sorry, were all busy training.Yes, because that's right... as a citizen that pays tax it's my fault. Of course, how foolish of me.


Join up, you'll be great. Seems you know everything. We could use a gem like you.I already have a job, one where I'm happy to take it upon myself to ensure that I know what is required of me to correctly perform the functions that I'm trained for. It's called personal responsibility.


ential L-platers that don't know that a law directly affecting them is changing it is little wonder a weigh station attendant wont.That is entirely their own fault. I assume that everyone else got the letter in the mail stating that the law had changed, or was that just me? (could be me, as I have a 250 registered)


...there just humans mate (They can't be expected to know everything!...and that LAMS list is a friggin mess!:laugh:)Of course they can, that's what we're fucking paying them for. They don't even have to hold all of that information in their heads, they have plenty of IT systems that can do it for them... if they have failed to implement such a system before October 1st, then that's a failure of them, not a failure of learner riders. This guilty until proven innocent bullshit is getting out of hand.

[oneofsix]

That is entirely their own fault. I assume that everyone else got the letter in the mail stating that the law had changed, or was that just me? (could be me, as I have a 250 registered)


Did they? I ask in terms of 250 L or R platers. As a 6F on a non-LAMS 650 I didn't. Haven't heard any of the 6L or 6Rs on 250s or less I know mention any letter but of course they all know about LAMS anyhow.

[breakaway]

I like you rastuscat, top bloke.

But I am genuinely surprised that in light of such a huge legislative change no information has been sent to the coppers (emails, briefing?). Most officers I met have a 'you are wrong, I am right' attitude, and this is understandable because I'm sure they deal with a lot of douchebags who 'plead their case', but this situation has absolutely flabbergasted me.

[rastuscat]

Of course they can, that's what we're fucking paying them for. They don't even have to hold all of that information in their heads, they have plenty of IT systems that can do it for them... if they have failed to implement such a system before October 1st, then that's a failure of them, not a failure of learner riders..

It'll be solved by giving cops roadside internet access.

Please send my taxpayer finded iPad 3 to my work address. The chances of my employer paying for one is fack all.

[willytheekid]

....they have plenty of IT systems that can do it for them... if they have failed to implement such a system before October 1st, then that's a failure of them, not a failure of learner riders. This guilty until proven innocent bullshit is getting out of hand.

Ummm, I used to look after there IT services...trust me when I say...there systems are not that flash or reliable! (We begged the Govn't to invest in a stronger Network for the Popo...But, the bastard Govn't are ripping them off too!)

I understand the "guilty until proven innocent" comment as well, but they deal with scumbags day in and day out...hence they do tend to treat everyone as guilty till proven otherwise...cos the majority of the time the guilty are who they are dealing with...yup, can impact their view of the rest of us...but once again, they are only human mate (If we was cops...we would probly snap and just start shooting scumbags within a week!:laugh:)

We can how-ever be thankful that Rastuscat actually takes the time to try and inform us of change's etc that may effect us KBers...such as the new LAMS list...dudes just trying to look out for us:niceone:

[gloplg]

Heads up to those 6L and 6R folk who are going to ride LAMS bikes.

Don't think that every Popo who stops a LAMS-reliant learner or restricted rider will know their stuff about LAMS. The degree of knowledge is depending on their experience with and interest in bikes.

Instead, carry a copy of the NZTA list of approved bikes, showing your bike model, and proving that you are allowed to ride it.

Yes, the Popo should know, and it's up to them to prove it, blah blah blah. Still, it's easier to pull the list out and prove you're in the right then to have to argue about the ticket that shouldn't have been written in the first place.

Simple ideas, nearly always the best.

I'll attach one, when I can work out how. Also, PM me your email address, I'll email it to you. Or you can go to the NZTA link here

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/licence/getting/docs/lams-list.pdf

Hi ho, off to the Donut shop I go.

:)

Thankyou RC. The advice is good, for those that want to take it!!!

See you on a WNR????

[imdying]

We can how-ever be thankful that Rastuscat actually takes the time to try and inform us of change's etc that may effect us KBers...such as the new LAMS list...dudes just trying to look out for us:niceone:Yes, it's lovely to be told that we should have our papers organised in case the inspectors need to see them... (because they're unable to perform their duties correctly).

<img src="http://www.batterypark.tv/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/halt-freuline-show-me-your-papers.jpg" />

[duckonin]

:corn::corn:... Most:Police: are EX council gardener dropouts one cannot expect much from them at all. Let alone for many of them to have to use their own brain..:facepalm:

[Dave-]

rastuscat has the point here imdying, let the cops dish it out and let the lawyers decide who's in the wrong, a ticket is only an accusation.

out of interest rastuscat, are incorrectly issued tickets followed up? at what point is something done if it's consistent?

[imdying]

I don't think that being giving insufficient training to complete their duties means their stupid. Putting the onus on somebody going about their business to prove their legal right to ride their motorcycle due to that lack of training stinks though.

[imdying]

rastuscat has the point here imdying, let the cops dish it out and let the lawyers decide who's in the wrong, a ticket is only an accusation.I'm 'pretty sure' a law change has happened that makes your rear mudguard illegal, so here's a ticket. If that's not the case, you sort it out and I forget about it :Police: Lovely.

[oneofsix]

rastuscat has the point here imdying, let the cops dish it out and let the lawyers decide who's in the wrong, a ticket is only an accusation.

As most aren't lawyers and can't afford them then they are hassled for nothing and have to take time off to defend it against a system that presumes the police know what they are doing.

There was a lawyer that objected to having to hand over his damaged gun part to collect the new imported one. He defended this and won. His question was how come the police had got away with this for so long (years). Obvious answer was they hadn't done it to a lawyer before and after all the parts were useless so why not just play the game even if the rules are wrong. I think what imdying is getting at is that before the police stop someone going about their business they should have reasonable grounds, ignorance doesn't work as a defence for those subject to the law so why should it work for those enforcing the law?


I don't think that being giving insufficient training to complete their duties means their stupid. Putting the onus on somebody going about their business to prove their legal right to ride their motorcycle due to that lack of training stinks though.

Bugger! I have to agree.

[huff3r]

That is entirely their own fault. I assume that everyone else got the letter in the mail stating that the law had changed, or was that just me? (could be me, as I have a 250 registered)


I never got it, I'm on my 6R, but the bikes Dad's. He never got it either. You must just be extra speshal. :corn:

[imdying]

On a more positive note... I do appreciate you trying to ease other peoples lives by suggesting this. I don't question your intentions at all, I'm just peeved that you should even have to make the suggestion in the first place.

[rastuscat]

On a more positive note... I do appreciate you trying to ease other peoples lives by suggesting this. I don't question your intentions at all, I'm just peeved that you should even have to make the suggestion in the first place.

Pretty cheesed about it too.

I was sitting in court this morning when I posted it from my personal smart phone. I was waiting for my car thief offender to turn up, which he didn't, so warrant issued.

I was sitting there, waiting for the court process to grind on, and wondered what I could do to make things better for some LAMS riders.

I have thoughts about how I can make things better for bike riders. I know my position, and know that making the world a better place is beyond me. But instead of worrying about what I can't do, I think about what I can do.

So I did. Posted some advice that might help someone, given that I know the state of general knowledge on motorcycle specific legislation.

I can't upskill every cop in NZ. I can't upskill every rider in NZ. So much shit I can't do. But I do the shit I can.

So there.

[Gremlin]

I can't upskill every cop in NZ. I can't upskill every rider in NZ. So much shit I can't do. But I do the shit I can.

So there.
ratuscat's for every town in NZ!! :love:

[rastuscat]

ratuscat's for every town in NZ!! :love:

Saw someone post "Rastuscat for King" once.

Then realised it was "Rastuscat for **king". Cringe.

[Bassmatt]

Also required when dealing with:

hospital/dentist - take relevent medical journals/textbooks
electrician/plumber/builder etc - make sure you have an up to date copy of the codes to be complied with and technical manuals available for them to reference if they dont know what they are doing.
Accountant - its YOUR responsibility to be aware of any changes to tax law don't expect the accountant to know.
Schools- a copy of the NZ schools cirriculum ( you dont expect schools to know what they can/can't teach do you?)
Parent Interviews - take a photo of your child, after all they have to remember 30 new faces every year!
VTNZ/WOF - they have so much to remember as it is, better take a VIM along with you.
etc etc

[Bassmatt]

I can't upskill every cop in NZ. I can't upskill every rider in NZ. So much shit I can't do. But I do the shit I can.

So there.

I, and I would assume the others who are critical, are not having a go at you Rastus, rather the orginisation which employs you.
Why not have a document re LAMS in every car or even only every HP car until everyone gets there heds around the changes?
I think if the police (you) are themselves admitting they don't know the rules then the attitude should be "if in doubt, don't write it out".

[tbs]

This guilty until proven innocent bullshit is getting out of hand.

I see this point come up every now and then.... The last time was on one of Akzle's insane diatribes. The legal principle involved is that once charged with a crime, a citizen is considered innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. That is to say that once it gets to the courts, the burden of proof lies with the state. It doesn't mean that ordinary citizens going about their business are automatically considered innocent of anything until the cops can prove they've committed an offense.

A large part of police investigative work involves slinging a bunch of mud and seeing what sticks. Accuse someone and see how they react. If they didn't do this they wouldn't solve very many crimes. I for one am glad that police act like suspicious bastards.... I like my offenders to get caught and punished. Maybe this technique shouldn't be part of policing things like the LAMS list, but inevitably there's going to be some cross-over, so take a look at the bigger picture, show them your list if you need to and get on with your life.

Once again, ONLY IN A COURT OF LAW.

[ducatilover]

I was just going to do a runner, wheelie and flip it on to the cop, it'll be his fault.

[Gremlin]

VTNZ/WOF - they have so much to remember as it is, better take a VIM along with you.
etc etc
Yep, sorta done this. Told them to get their copy of the VIRM to prove I was correct... I was wrong on one part, correct on another... so yes, pays to be knowledgeable. You don't go and randomly buy a bike without knowing about it first do you?

[rastuscat]

Why not have a document re LAMS in every car or even only every HP car until everyone gets there heds around the changes?.

Coz we'd have to fit a trailer to each car to carry the volumes of shite we have to know, in case we need to know it.

[Big Dave]

I was just going to do a runner, wheelie and flip it on to the cop, it'll be his fault.

You funny.

[Bassmatt]

Coz we'd have to fit a trailer to each car to carry the volumes of shite we have to know, in case we need to know it.
:facepalm:
OK sounds fair I mean if I want to take music in my car with me its a real hassle trying to stop the needle bouncing around and scratching my records.

I know your a bit behind in CHCH, but in 2012, in the rest of the world, the word "document" no longer means paper need to be involved.

[Gremlin]

It'll be solved by giving cops roadside internet access.

Please send my taxpayer finded iPad 3 to my work address. The chances of my employer paying for one is fack all.


:facepalm:
OK sounds fair I mean if I want to take music in my car with me its a real hassle trying to stop the needle bouncing around and scratching my records.

I know your a bit behind in CHCH, but in 2012, in the rest of the world, the word "document" no longer means paper need to be involved.
Uh... I think successive governments put a lot more money into the dole than the police. Simple thing is money... the police are cutting staff, so why would they be spending up large on non essential items? I'd imagine every regular cop in the force has at least one story about needing something for work and not getting it.

[arcane12]

Pretty cheesed about it too.

I was sitting in court this morning when I posted it from my personal smart phone. I was waiting for my car thief offender to turn up, which he didn't, so warrant issued.

I was sitting there, waiting for the court process to grind on, and wondered what I could do to make things better for some LAMS riders.

I have thoughts about how I can make things better for bike riders. I know my position, and know that making the world a better place is beyond me. But instead of worrying about what I can't do, I think about what I can do.

So I did. Posted some advice that might help someone, given that I know the state of general knowledge on motorcycle specific legislation.

I can't upskill every cop in NZ. I can't upskill every rider in NZ. So much shit I can't do. But I do the shit I can.

So there.

I think some of us appreciate the thought. I think I will have to print a copy of the list when I upgrade my Scorpio to a LAMS bike. Wonder if I can get away with a print out of the older list and go buy a 650 V-Strom? :shifty:

[FJRider]

This is your answer to being employed in a job that has ongoing training requirements? Seriously?

I've got another idea... how about actually knowing about the offending that you're policing?

Or just take it to court. Being proven innocent in court will make the popo look silly ... and keep him/her off the beat for a few hours ...

[ducatilover]

Just a little thought.
Rastus, will you not be told if a bike is on the LAMS list when you radio the plate in? Shirley you fullas have the technology to have that information.

[FJRider]

Just a little thought.
Rastus, will you not be told if a bike is on the LAMS list when you radio the plate in? Shirley you fullas have the technology to have that information.

Under standard Goverment policy ... that technology will be available in 2014.

[mossy1200]

I dont understand why the rego label doesnt get printed with lams after the model.
Wouldnt that be the best bet for the future.

[tbs]

I dont understand why the rego label doesnt get printed with lams after the model.
Wouldnt that be the best bet for the future.

That's what I was thinking... and you should be able to take your current LAMS approved bike in and have a revised rego label printed at no charge.

[willytheekid]

I dont understand why the rego label doesnt get printed with lams after the model.
Wouldnt that be the best bet for the future.

:clap:

...best idea yet!

[sleemanj]

It'll be solved by giving cops roadside internet access.

Please send my taxpayer finded iPad 3 to my work address. The chances of my employer paying for one is fack all.

"Coms, Rastus. Q-LAMS X650"
"Rastus, Coms. X650 LAMS Compliant"

[sleemanj]

I dont understand why the rego label doesnt get printed with lams after the model.
Wouldnt that be the best bet for the future.

That was the original plan, was even part of the law.

I don't know why they didn't follow through with that, but I can guess that they realised they don't want to put "LAMS Compliant" on the label because they don't know if that specific bike has been modified, in which case it's no longer LAMS compliant.

So it would open them up to liability if a bike was sold with a LAMS compliant label on it, but it was no longer LAMS compliant... and somebody topped themselves on it.

[pzkpfw]

That was the original plan, was even part of the law.

I don't know why they didn't follow through with that, but I can guess that they realised they don't want to put "LAMS Compliant" on the label because they don't know if that specific bike has been modified, in which case it's no longer LAMS compliant.

So it would open them up to liability if a bike was sold with a LAMS compliant label on it, but it was no longer LAMS compliant... and somebody topped themselves on it.

Good point, but hardly different to a WOF label on a vehicle that has since become un-WOF standard, and having a related crash though the sticker is still on it...

[Oakie]

It'll be solved by giving cops roadside internet access.

Please send my taxpayer finded iPad 3 to my work address. The chances of my employer paying for one is fack all.

Now I'm sure I saw on TV about 4 or 5 weeks ago a trial of just that sort of technology being used in a popo car in a remote area of the country. Don't know what the context was because I wasn't really watching however ...

[mossy1200]

That was the original plan, was even part of the law.

I don't know why they didn't follow through with that, but I can guess that they realised they don't want to put "LAMS Compliant" on the label because they don't know if that specific bike has been modified, in which case it's no longer LAMS compliant.

So it would open them up to liability if a bike was sold with a LAMS compliant label on it, but it was no longer LAMS compliant... and somebody topped themselves on it.

Correct but its not any different from a lams approved model thats been modified. At least having rego claiming a lams bike then when a warrent is performed and the inspection shows modified parts the warrent can be declined.
Also means that if your claiming its lams approved popo can sticker it for being modified and request it be checked at owners expense.

Its going to be interesting to see how many learners riders will have exausts etc that have dropped weight and increased hp taking their bike out of learners field.

Check these claims out-----

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-520725307.htm

Now tell me thats still a LAMS bike. I say you should need prove it a label it as such to ride it as such and every warrent it needs to be reconfirmed.

[FJRider]

Regardless of what could or should be done in the system to assist the Donut munchers in their work ... for those of you in LAM's land ... anything YOU can do to make your roadside stop a 2 minute affair. Rather than a possible 30 minutes plus ... would be in your best interest to do.

Wouldn't it ... ??? <_<

[G4L4XY]

Almost makes you think twice about posting something nice next time huh, what with getting all the bulls**t and so on.

Glad this doesn't affect me anywho :)

[ducatilover]

I dont understand why the rego label doesnt get printed with lams after the model.
Wouldnt that be the best bet for the future. That'd be ideal, simple and cheap.


Under standard Goverment policy ... that technology will be available in 2014. Only to 50 of the Police force nationwide?



http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-520725307.htm

Now tell me thats still a LAMS bike. I say you should need prove it a label it as such to ride it as such and every warrent it needs to be reconfirmed.
Phwoar, LAMS or not, that's bloody nice :love:

[imdying]

Or just take it to court. Being proven innocent in court will make the popo look silly ... and keep him/her off the beat for a few hours ...What of my own time? Who is going to pay for that? My customers?


Regardless of what could or should be done in the system to assist the Donut munchers in their work ... for those of you in LAM's land ... anything YOU can do to make your roadside stop a 2 minute affair. Rather than a possible 30 minutes plus ... would be in your best interest to do.If it was a modified bike, out of the ordinary, getting a WOF, then sure photocopy the VIRM pages that are relevant... you expect that when you're getting off the beaten track. But a perfectly legitimate learner, on his perfectly legitimate learner bike, should not have to cater for the failings of the public service. If he has his license, the correct bike, paid his rego and got his WOF, surely in a just world his many should obligations end there? Or is it acceptable for the police to deal out injustice now? You don't agree that those upholding the law should be familiar with it?

[FJRider]

Correct but its not any different from a lams approved model thats been modified. At least having rego claiming a lams bike then when a warrent is performed and the inspection shows modified parts the warrent can be declined.
Also means that if your claiming its lams approved popo can sticker it for being modified and request it be checked at owners expense.

Its going to be interesting to see how many learners riders will have exausts etc that have dropped weight and increased hp taking their bike out of learners field.

Check these claims out-----

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-520725307.htm

Now tell me thats still a LAMS bike. I say you should need prove it a label it as such to ride it as such and every warrent it needs to be reconfirmed.

The tester would ... could not decline the WoF on grounds it was not LAM's approved. But could make it appear on the online vehicle details ... that it is no longer in approved status (Or at least status suspect)

As I recall in my previous LAM's searches ... the onus is on the rider to prove it is on the list.

[FJRider]

If it was a modified bike, out of the ordinary, getting a WOF, then sure photocopy the VIRM pages that are relevant... you expect that when you're getting off the beaten track. But a perfectly legitimate learner, on his perfectly legitimate learner bike, should not have to cater for the failings of the public service. If he has his license, the correct bike, paid his rego and got his WOF, surely in a just world his many should obligations end there? Or is it acceptable for the police to deal out injustice now? You don't agree that those upholding the law should be familiar with it?

As I recall in my previous LAM's searches ... the onus is on the rider to prove it is on the list.

[Ocean1]

Coz we'd have to fit a trailer to each car to carry the volumes of shite we have to know, in case we need to know it.

I distinctly recall someone official once telling me that ignorance of the law was no excuse.

I thought he was talking about me!

[Magnum Noel]

Heads up to those 6L and 6R folk who are going to ride LAMS bikes.

Don't think that every Popo who stops a LAMS-reliant learner or restricted rider will know their stuff about LAMS. The degree of knowledge is depending on their experience with and interest in bikes.

Instead, carry a copy of the NZTA list of approved bikes, showing your bike model, and proving that you are allowed to ride it.

Yes, the Popo should know, and it's up to them to prove it, blah blah blah. Still, it's easier to pull the list out and prove you're in the right then to have to argue about the ticket that shouldn't have been written in the first place.

Simple ideas, nearly always the best.

I'll attach one, when I can work out how. Also, PM me your email address, I'll email it to you. Or you can go to the NZTA link here

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/licence/getting/docs/lams-list.pdf

Hi ho, off to the Donut shop I go.

:)

I love it when you post Rastacat. Four pages already and they're all out jumping up and down as usual. Keep up the good work.

[Mully Clown]

They need to get the Target team onto this.

How well do the NZ Police know the new LAMS laws?
We send this 15yo learner out speeding on a Hyosung ST7L and a Suzuki RGV250 to find out.

[bogan]

I have to agree with others that the cops giving the tickets should know the law. If they haven't bothered to learn about it, then they shouldn't be writing them out. You say cops are overworked and undertrained, I don't disagree with that; but how about kicking the problems back up the chain to be solved, instead of passing them down for us to deal with.

[rastuscat]

Regardless of what could or should be done in the system to assist the Donut munchers in their work ... for those of you in LAM's land ... anything YOU can do to make your roadside stop a 2 minute affair. Rather than a possible 30 minutes plus ... would be in your best interest to do.

Wouldn't it ... ??? <_<

Nah, don't make your life easier. Stand your ground. Thrill in the knowledge that you're right,AND the Popo is wrong.

Thril for the 15 minutes you could have saved by carrying the list in the first place. Then enjoy the time you have wasted writing letters that could have been avoided by carrying the list.

Yeah, go all you civil rights activists, protect your right to silence. Say nothing, waste your time.

[bogan]

Yeah, go all you civil rights activists, protect your right to silence. Say nothing, waste your time.

Is there not a review on laws etc then? Surely somebody would notice if half the LAMS infringement tickets issued were being overturned and wasting a lot of police time. To civil rights activists sending that message is well worth wasting some time; its pretty much what they do. Its a pity the problem gets this far down the chain before being thrown back up, but we can't do anything else about that.

[Berries]

How well do the NZ Police know the new LAMS laws?
We send this 15yo learner out speeding on a Hyosung ST7L and a Suzuki RGV250 to find out.
Apparently, if you have a piece of paper from the NZTA website you can get off the ticket anyway. I just edited mine to show that a GSXCBRZX10000000RRRRRRRRR is LAMS approved.





Nnnnyyyyyaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaa..............................

[rastuscat]

; but how about kicking the problems back up the chain to be solved, instead of passing them down for us to deal with.

Have done both. It's called force multiplication.

[rastuscat]

Apparently, if you have a piece of paper from the NZTA website you can get off the ticket anyway. I just edited mine to show that a GSXCBRZX10000000RRRRRRRRR is LAMS approved......

Yeah, and I've just printed a modified version of the Land Transport Act to carry around with me thay sez anyone called Berries should be flogged with a wet bus ticket.

I also added your GSXCBRZX10000000000RRRRRRRRRr to my LAMS list. Make sure your last letter is in small case. The large last letter denotes a heavily modified version.

[jellywrestler]

They need to get the Target team onto this.

How well do the NZ Police know the new LAMS laws?
We send this 15yo learner out speeding on a Hyosung ST7L and a Suzuki RGV250 to find out.
on his way to buy cigarettes and a dirty video...

[Monkfish]

on his way to buy cigarettes and a dirty video...

I wish that was where I was going <_<

[SILVER SUZI]

Wah ha, this is the KB Iv'e come to love. All you whingy whiney wankers out there. You all are probably the same people that spend hours complaining about the content of various TV programs......... while the rest of us simply change channels and get on with life!
FFS how hard is it? If you want to carry the piece of paper carry it, if you don't want to then don't. But don't go hatin on the guy with the idea, just out to help his fellow motorcyclists.
If you all feel real strongly about it, how bout each of you send a couple of hundred thou to the police minister to train the popo's up to lawyer standard. Wait you might have to make that a couple of million each. And while the popo's are all off becoming lawyers we could get the Taliban in to do there job. Too bad Osama Bin Liner isn't round, he could be chief of police.

Onya for looking out for us Rusta.....(fuck, can't remember what yer full handle is).

[arcane12]

Wah ha, this is the KB Iv'e come to love. All you whingy whiney wankers out there. You all are probably the same people that spend hours complaining about the content of various TV programs......... while the rest of us simply change channels and get on with life!
FFS how hard is it? If you want to carry the piece of paper carry it, if you don't want to then don't. But don't go hatin on the guy with the idea, just out to help his fellow motorcyclists.
If you all feel real strongly about it, how bout each of you send a couple of hundred thou to the police minister to train the popo's up to lawyer standard. Wait you might have to make that a couple of million each. And while the popo's are all off becoming lawyers we could get the Taliban in to do there job. Too bad Osama Bin Liner isn't round, he could be chief of police.

Onya for looking out for us Rusta.....(fuck, can't remember what yer full handle is).

Don't get me started about TV... I mean What's up with Shortland Street? What does Chris think he's doing? :psst:

[mossy1200]

Make the fine for having a L plate on a bike thats not LAMS approved $10,000.
That should help with people attempting to tell porkies.
10k buys many donuts.

[bogan]

Wah ha, this is the KB Iv'e come to love. All you whingy whiney wankers out there. You all are probably the same people that spend hours complaining about the content of various TV programs......... while the rest of us simply change channels and get on with life!
FFS how hard is it? If you want to carry the piece of paper carry it, if you don't want to then don't. But don't go hatin on the guy with the idea, just out to help his fellow motorcyclists.
If you all feel real strongly about it, how bout each of you send a couple of hundred thou to the police minister to train the popo's up to lawyer standard. Wait you might have to make that a couple of million each. And while the popo's are all off becoming lawyers we could get the Taliban in to do there job. Too bad Osama Bin Liner isn't round, he could be chief of police.

Onya for looking out for us Rusta.....(fuck, can't remember what yer full handle is).

Who let you out of the paddock?

[rastuscat]

Who let you out of the paddock?

I set him loose................:2thumbsup

[ducatilover]

Wah ha, this is the KB Iv'e come to love. All you whingy whiney wankers out there. You all are probably the same people that spend hours complaining about the content of various TV programs......... while the rest of us simply change channels and get on with life!
FFS how hard is it? If you want to carry the piece of paper carry it, if you don't want to then don't. But don't go hatin on the guy with the idea, just out to help his fellow motorcyclists.
If you all feel real strongly about it, how bout each of you send a couple of hundred thou to the police minister to train the popo's up to lawyer standard. Wait you might have to make that a couple of million each. And while the popo's are all off becoming lawyers we could get the Taliban in to do there job. Too bad Osama Bin Liner isn't round, he could be chief of police.

Onya for looking out for us Rusta.....(fuck, can't remember what yer full handle is).
My favourite part is when you whinge about the whingers :laugh:

[bogan]

I set him loose................:2thumbsup

You flocking bahhstard!

[SILVER SUZI]

............:corn:

[Akzle]

c'mon guys.. cops can't be expected to KNOW the law they enforce.. that's just silly.

[The_Duke]

After reading that lot...

To any 6R riders out there... just get your bloody full licence as soon as possible and ride whatever the hell you want!

:brick:

[arcane12]

After reading that lot...

To any 6R riders out there... just get your bloody full licence as soon as possible and ride whatever the hell you want!

:brick:

Except for those of us caught by the change a little, who have to wait 18 months to get our full now. Regardless of age etc. Can't do defensive driving courses anymore to reduce it, and the new courses to reduce the time are due... late 2013? Oh woe is me. :violin:

[oneofsix]

Wah ha, this is the KB Iv'e come to love. All you whingy whiney wankers out there. You all are probably the same people that spend hours complaining about the content of various TV programs......... while the rest of us simply change channels and get on with life!
FFS how hard is it? If you want to carry the piece of paper carry it, if you don't want to then don't. But don't go hatin on the guy with the idea, just out to help his fellow motorcyclists.
If you all feel real strongly about it, how bout each of you send a couple of hundred thou to the police minister to train the popo's up to lawyer standard. Wait you might have to make that a couple of million each. And while the popo's are all off becoming lawyers we could get the Taliban in to do there job. Too bad Osama Bin Liner isn't round, he could be chief of police.

Onya for looking out for us Rusta.....(fuck, can't remember what yer full handle is).

Yeah there is not enough sex and nudity on telly and no matter what channel I can afford to change to it is no better.

They don't have to be trained to lawyer standard but if they are going to pull over a L-plater they should at least know the basic rules. And any how they have those new fangled radio things where they can check in with the office, how had is it?

Top marks to Rustus for the warning but instead of loading the problem on the least empowered how about those with the power take responsibility for their use or mis-use of that power. FFS a radio call is all it takes and then they know until the next law change.

[ducatilover]

Except for those of us caught by the change a little, who have to wait 18 months to get our full now. Regardless of age etc. Can't do defensive driving courses anymore to reduce it, and the new courses to reduce the time are due... late 2013? Oh woe is me. :violin:
It's not that horrible. A 250 should do everything you need and still supply a generous dose of giggles.
My VT250 Spada was used daily and toured most of the north island more than once. I regret selling that little bike, I put 130,000km on it and it never got boring.

Alternatively, make a LAMS legal-ish toy that's going to be giggles.