Rear view blindspots. How do you cope with them?

[sootie]

One bike I owned in the 1980s had wide handlebars, wide spaced curved mirrors & almost no rear blindspot. Just about every other bike I ever owned has had a safety issue associated with this which the rider has had to come to terms with.

* does heavy (jacket) riding gear further restrict your rear vision? Do you consider this?
* do handlebar tip mirrors help?
* have you trained yourself to always look rearward for a big picture as you approach every turn?
* do you really use vehicle positioning intelligently & deliberately to minimize the risk?
* as you ride is your blind spot configuration always in your mind's eye?
* do you think we should all fit spacing bars to our mirrors on every bike?
* is this mainly a big city driving issue?
* have you considered this issue & tried to reduce any problem you have?

I would like to see some discussion on this. What are your views?
Who knows a 24 carat answer to the problem?

PS: I once fitted a rear view CCTV.
It worked perfectly, but was totally useless & I removed it after just one short ride.
Have a guess why this was?

[98tls]

Barend mirrors.Simple.Why they stick mirrors on fairings ive no idea.

[Katman]

It worked perfectly, but was totally useless & I removed it after just one short ride.
Have a guess why this was?

I'd guess because it wasn't the mirror image that your brain is programmed to expect to see.

[steve_t]

Barend mirrors.Simple.Why they stick mirrors on fairings ive no idea.

+1

10 chars

[bogan]

I have to tuck my elboe/shoulder a bit to get a decent view; bar mounted mirrors on wider bars than stock. Bar-ends don't seem like a good idea for filtering, but that is probably more of an issue for me cos I run wider bars to begin with.


I'd guess because it wasn't the mirror image that your brain is programmed to expect to see.

Don't automotive units mirror the image to compensate?

[FJRider]

Corners are always the best time for a sneak look behind. On the straighter sections I do a bit of a weave to the left/right for a good look. But on my FJ ... usually (mostly) I just pull the elbows in a bit .....

[Hitcher]

The Kiwi Biker wave is a foolproof solution in these circumstances.

[sootie]

Agree with the elbow tuck idea - I do that too :niceone:

Going to let the CCTV one run for a bit - I never saw the answer coming.
Clue: I decided it was bloody dangerous! (Nothing to do with reversed image).

[nzspokes]

Clutch it up, will be easy to see then.

[onearmedbandit]

PS: I once fitted a rear view CCTV.
It worked perfectly, but was totally useless & I removed it after just one short ride.
Have a guess why this was?

A mate put the same setup his bike, the issue he had was sunlight on the screen made the image impossible to see.

Riding with only one arm does have an advantage I never considered before getting back on a bike. My left mirror always gives me a good clear view.

[Asher]

Ive never found it to be a much of a big deal although in my typical riding position all i can see in my mirrors is my elbows.
-I always do i full head check before i change lanes or want to make sure double check whats behind me.
-When im going around corners i check the inside mirror which lets you see the entire corner and whats directly behind you.
-When im on a quiet road i often ride with my left hand resting on the tank so im not blocking the view of my left mirror.

[sootie]

Sun fade of the image was an issue, but not the main problem.

[98tls]

Corners are always the best time for a sneak look behind. .....

:killingme:first:Theres some sound advice.

[steve_t]

The Kiwi Biker wave is a foolproof solution in these circumstances.

And we had been doing so well :spanking::Pokey:

[MyGSXF]

These helmets are brilliant!! :yes:

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/146731-REEVU-helmets-for-sale-Grab-a-bargain!?p=1130267344#post1130267344

[sootie]

These helmets are brilliant!! :yes:

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/146731-REEVU-helmets-for-sale-Grab-a-bargain!?p=1130267344#post1130267344

Had seen these advertised somewhere. It looks a really good idea if it has been implemented without any new issues arising. It would avoid the CCTV issues & be simpler too (a big bonus).

[Dangsta]

One bike I owned in the 1980s had wide handlebars, wide spaced curved mirrors & almost no rear blindspot. Just about every other bike I ever owned has had a safety issue associated with this which the rider has had to come to terms with.

* does heavy (jacket) riding gear further restrict your rear vision? Do you consider this?
* do handlebar tip mirrors help?
* have you trained yourself to always look rearward for a big picture as you approach every turn?
* do you really use vehicle positioning intelligently & deliberately to minimize the risk?
* as you ride is your blind spot configuration always in your mind's eye?
* do you think we should all fit spacing bars to our mirrors on every bike?
* is this mainly a big city driving issue?
* have you considered this issue & tried to reduce any problem you have?

I would like to see some discussion on this. What are your views?
Who knows a 24 carat answer to the problem?

PS: I once fitted a rear view CCTV.
It worked perfectly, but was totally useless & I removed it after just one short ride.
Have a guess why this was?


I had a bit of a problem on my S83 with it having quite narrow handlebars. Struggled with seeing anything behind me for a few days which made for some pretty scary moments plus some unusual riding positions as I tried to contort myself into wierd shapes to see behind me. I was thinking about wider bars with risers but as a quick fix, I went to repco and bought a couple of little blindspot mirrors for two bucks. Stuck them to the top corners of my mirrors and now I don't really have a problem.

[98tls]

These helmets are brilliant!! :yes:

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/146731-REEVU-helmets-for-sale-Grab-a-bargain!?p=1130267344#post1130267344

:(Hi vis/traction control and now this:wacko:Does anyone here remember motorcycling?Young fellas today when considering a life on 2 wheels would simply shrug there shoulders and figure its easier to fly an aeroplane.

[Dangsta]

Agree with the elbow tuck idea - I do that too :niceone:

Going to let the CCTV one run for a bit - I never saw the answer coming.
Clue: I decided it was bloody dangerous! (Nothing to do with reversed image).

If the CCTV was anything like me with my GPS, I realised I was staring at the screen with the little moving "me dot" and ignoring the road. Too distracting.

[sootie]

I had a bit of a problem on my S83 with it having quite narrow handlebars. Struggled with seeing anything behind me for a few days which made for some pretty scary moments plus some unusual riding positions as I tried to contort myself into wierd shapes to see behind me. I was thinking about wider bars with risers but as a quick fix, I went to repco and bought a couple of little blindspot mirrors for two bucks. Stuck them to the top corners of my mirrors and now I don't really have a problem.

I have been down this exact road & still have the mirrors to prove it. I really could not get the idea to work for me any better than the standard mirrors. The same would probably be true for bar-end mirrors, although they offer a good solution on my mate's Ducatti.

I see bikes around which pass their WOF, and seem to have poorer rear vision than I have. Perhaps the owners always ride a lot faster!

[sootie]

If the CCTV was anything like me with my GPS, I realised I was staring at the screen with the little moving "me dot" and ignoring the road. Too distracting.

YOU WIN THE PRIZE!! Well done! In traffic you are always flicking your eyes to monitor rear vision. It takes time for eyes to re-focus short / long / short / long. During the re-focussing, you are likely to hit something.
Probably worse for me as I am not a young rider anymore, but bad for anyone I think.
You wind up trying to resolve very small closeup TV screen detail just to make it all worse.
Glad you mentioned GPS as I have had the same thoughts, but you don't look at that so often (I hope!)

You don't get the re-focussing problem with a mirror because your forward vision & your mirror vision are both at long range, one just has its direction changed. :niceone: :niceone:

[ducatilover]

I'm basically blind in one eye, so I only have one mirror
My problem if I die I suppose?


:2thumbsup

[Berries]

Always liked this quote.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/AjGXn249Fc0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Bassmatt]

Why the angst over whats behind you, unless you're changing lanes?
I dont get this obsession with scanning mirrors all the time, you cant hit something that is already behind you. I reckon alot of nose to tail accidents are caused by this.

[sootie]

Whats behind me; its not important



I dont get this obsession with scanning mirrors all the time, you cant hit something that is already behind you. I reckon a lot of nose to tail accidents are caused by this.

I think I am one of those pathetic riders that often rides within the speed limit.
(The law does not always think I am really good at this by the way.)
Anyway I am often interested in the cars that come up behind me doing 50kph more than I am & looking for an easy overtake. If they don't quite clear me, or hit something head on it might spoil my day too.

I also get quite nervous about cage drivers who are trying to collect a live rear tyre impression at 90 kph plus. 4WDs with Bullbars scare me particulalry, but then I have already admitted to being a bit wimpy. :innocent:

[sootie]

The Kiwi Biker wave is a foolproof solution in these circumstances.

Did you mean weave ???


Corners are always the best time for a sneak look behind. On the straighter sections I do a bit of a weave to the left/right for a good look.

You surely know enough to graduate as a "Topgun" from Fighter School FJ!! :killingme :killingme

[bogan]

I dont get this obsession with scanning mirrors all the time, you cant hit something that is already behind you.

No, but they can hit you.


I reckon alot of nose to tail accidents are caused by this.

Undoubtedly, without knowing what is behind you, there's no chance of avoiding getting run into the back of ;)

[nathanwhite]

These helmets are brilliant!! :yes:



I tried one of those on in the shop the other day. I found I had to move my eyes right up as far as they could possibly go to see in the mirror. It took me a good 2 seconds to actually focus on what was behind me. Maybe it wasn't quite fitted properly or I wasn't used to it IDK. I didn't like it too much to be honest.


I usually have my right mirror half showing my arm and half showing what is directly behind me. My left is a little wider and shows whats in the back left quadrant. I always do a head check to almost 180 degrees back before a lane change so it works fine for me.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Always liked this quote.



Dammit, came on here just to post this.

instead

271569

[sootie]

I tried one of those on in the shop the other day. I found I had to move my eyes right up as far as they could possibly go to see in the mirror. It took me a good 2 seconds to actually focus on what was behind me. Maybe it wasn't quite fitted properly or I wasn't used to it IDK. I didn't like it too much to be honest.

That is interesting info - suggests exactly the same problem as the TV camera.
Question: Are you looking rearward via a series of mirrors, or are you looking at a projected image located near the helmet apex?
If these helmets use the latter then I suggest that they would not be satisfactory.
I am going to make a point of looking for one. :confused:

(Added later by edit): http://www.reevu.com/faq.asp
Suggests bending of light - not an image - still unsure about refocussing issue though.
The revue suggests that the helmet needs to be adjusted for the wearer, and then takes a bit of getting used to.
Further comment here would seem to be in order.

[nathanwhite]

That is interesting info - suggests exactly the same problem as the TV camera.
Question: Are you looking rearward via a series of mirrors, or are you looking at a projected image located near the helmet apex?
If these helmets use the latter then I suggest that they would not be satisfactory.
I am going to make a point of looking for one. :confused:

(Added later by edit): http://www.reevu.com/faq.asp
Suggests bending of light - not an image - still unsure about refocussing issue though.
The revue suggests that the helmet needs to be adjusted for the wearer, and then takes a bit of getting used to.
Further comment here would seem to be in order.

The mirror that needs to be adjusted was (for me anyway) right at the top of my possible field of view. This is why it took so long to focus, I was having to look up, then up some more and trying to focus on that.


This (http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2011/09/28/riderscan-rear-view-mirror-takes-on-blind-spots/) seems like quite a good idea.

[Bassmatt]

Undoubtedly, without knowing what is behind you, there's no chance of avoiding getting run into the back of ;)

Ahh but if the driver of vehicle behind you wasn't constantly scanning his mirrors he would have taken note of the vehicle in front of him and stopped in time.

[f2dz]

As others have said, bar end mirrors are the way to go. I'd have them if I didn't commute on my bike and filter through traffic. I just tuck my elbow in every so often to see behind.

[bogan]

Ahh but if the driver of vehicle behind you wasn't constantly scanning his mirrors he would have taken note of the vehicle in front of him and stopped in time.

Who's more dependable? yourself, or some bloke with an eye infection named Keith?

[ducatilover]

I think I am one of those pathetic riders that often rides within the speed limit.
(The law does not always think I am really good at this by the way.)
Anyway I am often interested in the cars that come up behind me doing 50kph more than I am & looking for an easy overtake. If they don't quite clear me, or hit something head on it might spoil my day too.

I also get quite nervous about cage drivers who are trying to collect a live rear tyre impression at 90 kph plus. 4WDs with Bullbars scare me particulalry, but then I have already admitted to being a bit wimpy. :innocent:
There is this gloriously simple solution whilst on your ZZR1100, the black twisty turny thingy your right wrist clamps on to, turn it a little bit, this will stop people coming up behind you.

Disclaimer: Not my fault/problem if you do so and slam in to a RAV4, or get a speeding ticket.

Who's more dependable? yourself, or some bloke with an eye infection named Keith?
Probably the guy with the eye infection?

I find checking over the shoulder can work quite well
And being on such a small vehicle it doesn't take much of a turn of the head to see what's behind.
(except I'm blind, so I'll get run over anyway)

[Gremlin]

Part of advanced roadcraft is knowing your bike and it's blindspots, how large they are, and when changing lane, turning etc, you are doing a headcheck of the blindspot to make sure it is safe before moving.

In the bigger picture, it's situational awareness of everything going on around you. I see advanced roadcraft as also accounting for the stupidity/carelessness of other road users. Doesn't matter if you're in the right but sitting in hospital bandaged up... Ergo, while the car is behind me, he can still crash into me so I'm doing my best to control how close he gets to me, and previously I have dived to one side of the lane on the motorway when the car behind did not stop in time. He used the gap between us, my space and my gap to the car in front to stop, but because I was to one side, I was Ok (while slightly :shit:)

To answer your original question:
- Yes, a bulky jacket would encroach on your mirror view, depending on bike, but you should adjust the mirrors to compensate. I consider this but take no action
- Never used bar end mirrors. Both my bikes have wide bars which assist in rearview mirror placement and compensates for my size. I'm also anal about having the mirrors correctly adjusted. I hate not being able to see correctly.
- Yes, part of the IAM approach is headchecks. It's part of my riding.
- Positioning is a key part of IAM, so yes, I'm constantly putting my bike in the best positioning to maximise safety and visibility.
- Yep, blind spot is always considered, even if not changing lane. Often while I can't see a car, I know a car is there, or a headcheck confirms it's still there. You should also be considering the cars around you and whether you're in their blind spot.
- Spacing bars? I think people should adjust their mirrors correctly for their riding position and be aware of the limitations of their mirrors.
- I don't think it's just big cities, anywhere with traffic has the increased potential for cars all around and therefore in your blind spot. Countryside, obviously less chance of a car sitting in your blind spot, but you still check.
- Yep, considered it, taken it into account and adjusted my riding.

IAM has been very useful for tidying up my riding, making it more precise etc.

[Bassmatt]

Who's more dependable? yourself, or some bloke with an eye infection named Keith?

Can't depend on Keith, he spends too much time looking in his fucken mirrors. ;)

[bogan]

Can't depend on Keith, he spends too much time looking in his fucken mirrors. ;)

Exactly, so you should keep an eye on your own just in case. And by the way, its pretty easy to check whats in front of you first, to ensure you won't drive into them while checking your mirrors.

[sootie]

In the bigger picture, it's situational awareness of everything going on around you.

I think this is a pretty good way to recognise & look at the the present reality, and it is what I try to do.
I am therefore aware that my rear vision is not ideal, and I would like to improve it.

Maybe getting perfect rear vision on a bike is a bit like the ability to levitate heavy objects at will.
It would be a fabulous thing to achieve, but I have no idea how to do it!
Weaving can help as already stated. :wings: :wings:

Headchecks are a must for checking alongside particularly when pulling out.
I am not very keen on them for a look directly astern - especially while following.

[Blackbird]

+1 with Gremlin - mirrors are important but no matter how they're positioned, there will still be blind spots and the only totally safe option is a shoulder check or full lifesaver depending on the situation. It's not a big deal because if you constantly practice, it becomes totally ingrained in your riding. I'm a member of IAM with Gremlin. Thought I was an ok rider until I joined IAM, only to find out that I was pretty crap. Initially tough on the ego, but outstanding in terms of results.

[Fast Eddie]

Clutch it up, will be easy to see then.

yut UURRRGGGHHH

always clutch it up when I wanna check the road behind and below me. works everytime

[Fast Eddie]

f*ck, you've all got it wrong, checking your mirrors and looking behind you.. what a waste of time

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/AjGXn249Fc0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

first rule: whats behind me is not important!

[ducatilover]

yut UURRRGGGHHH

always clutch it up when I wanna check the road behind and below me. works everytime
I do it when I want to see sexy nurses.

[sootie]

f*ck, you've all got it wrong, checking your mirrors and looking behind you.. what a waste of time


yut UURRRGGGHHH
always clutch it up when I wanna check the road behind and below me. works everytime

If you are this confused, it probably doesn't matter much.
What are you going for? (Burial or Cremation?) :killingme :killingme

[Daffyd]

I'd guess because it wasn't the mirror image that your brain is programmed to expect to see.

The rear view/reversing camera in my motorhome can be changed fro direct view to mirror image with the press of a button. Is this not standard?

[Sable]

What a load of waffle. I nearly always headcheck.

[sootie]

What a load of waffle. I nearly always headcheck.

What happens when you don't? :innocent:

[nathanwhite]

What happens when you don't? :innocent:

This:

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..........

[sootie]

This:

Presumably you have also developed a crash proof rider (yourself) - impressive!

[nathanwhite]

Presumably you have also developed a crash proof rider (yourself) - impressive!

They are still working on that it seems

[sootie]

This

On a more serious note, the rider moves out at an acute angle to the oncoming vehicle. The vehicle would not be visible in his mirrors, and he has to twist his head a long way to check this angle. It did register with me that this takeoff was one which needed extra care (if it were not for all the automated safety protection of course!) I know it is a takeoff angle I do not like much & try to take great care with.

[Bison]

Remember....mirrors show you what you can see....blind spot checks show you what you can't see. Turn your head like your life depended on it. One day (at least) you will be right.

[Zedder]

One bike I owned in the 1980s had wide handlebars, wide spaced curved mirrors & almost no rear blindspot. Just about every other bike I ever owned has had a safety issue associated with this which the rider has had to come to terms with.

* does heavy (jacket) riding gear further restrict your rear vision? Do you consider this?
* do handlebar tip mirrors help?
* have you trained yourself to always look rearward for a big picture as you approach every turn?
* do you really use vehicle positioning intelligently & deliberately to minimize the risk?
* as you ride is your blind spot configuration always in your mind's eye?
* do you think we should all fit spacing bars to our mirrors on every bike?
* is this mainly a big city driving issue?
* have you considered this issue & tried to reduce any problem you have?

I would like to see some discussion on this. What are your views?
Who knows a 24 carat answer to the problem?

PS: I once fitted a rear view CCTV.
It worked perfectly, but was totally useless & I removed it after just one short ride.
Have a guess why this was?

Were you watching the CCTV too much?

[slofox]

If y'go faster than everything else on the road you don't have to worry about anything that's behind ya. (Just what's in front...) :crazy:

[jellywrestler]

i have my right mirror adjusted to see what's in the lane beside me, i always look to the side when lane changing, after indicating but can only see so far so mirror picks up the bits I can't see, the left mirror is adjusted to see what you'd normally see further afeild

[scumdog]

What a load of waffle. I nearly always headcheck.

Yep, 'nearly' is all ya need, only a soft-cock needs 'always'...;):whistle:

[biggo]

A friend of mine in the UK uses a mirror called a Riderscan and swears by it . He rides in the city of London to work where you get people coming at you from all directions !!

http://www.huntercreate.com/index.htm

Cheers Phil

[FJRider]

Blind spots ... ???? :scratch:



Plan B ...

[Xsannz]

i was taught by an ex pommies cop trainer.

mirror... mirror .. Life saver check. chin to shoulder quick glance change lanes.

if your chin touches your shoulder your vision which is about 160 degrees out of the helmet or so is enough do see anything in your blind spots hell you could practically look behind you with you chin touching your shoulder..

and presumably your not sitting bumper to bumper with the guy in front and acceleration up the arse of somebody those 1.5 - 2 second may save your life.

it also gives any car drivers an indication that you may be moving around because they watch your head.. same as when you are filtering on your bike in traffic watch car drivers head if they turn their head chances are they are going to change lanes suddenly or rather soon.

i am probably just stating the obvious here, but having just done the defensive course, and looking to start teaching it, i was so inspired by the guy, told me alsorts of stuff non of the kiwi instructors would have dreamed of.

if we had the UK tests for driving here we wouldn't be paying excess rego fees for accidents we didn't cause and poorly trained riders / drivers wiping themselves out.

sorry if this upsets anybody but that's my wisdom and 2c worth.

[george formby]

i was taught by an ex pommies cop trainer.

mirror... mirror .. Life saver check. chin to shoulder quick glance change lanes.

if your chin touches your shoulder your vision which is about 160 degrees out of the helmet or so is enough do see anything in your blind spots hell you could practically look behind you with you chin touching your shoulder..

and presumably your not sitting bumper to bumper with the guy in front and acceleration up the arse of somebody those 1.5 - 2 second may save your life.

it also gives any car drivers an indication that you may be moving around because they watch your head.. same as when you are filtering on your bike in traffic watch car drivers head if they turn their head chances are they are going to change lanes suddenly or rather soon.

i am probably just stating the obvious here, but having just done the defensive course, and looking to start teaching it, i was so inspired by the guy, told me alsorts of stuff non of the kiwi instructors would have dreamed of.

if we had the UK tests for driving here we wouldn't be paying excess rego fees for accidents we didn't cause and poorly trained riders / drivers wiping themselves out.

sorry if this upsets anybody but that's my wisdom and 2c worth.

When I did my test & star rider course up over during the last ice age, life savers were (are) the be all & end all, don't move without looking. I was taught a philosophy of riding in space, knowing what is happening all around me & acting to maximise my safety margins. Mirrors are for keeping track of what is approaching behind, not a definitive observation.
Having said that I have used bar end mirrors for some years now & on wide bars the view is fantastic. Somebody in a camouflaged smart car would have to be very stealthy to find the blind spot. I'm not perfect, though so I always look, proper focusing the eyes look.
Yeah, i'm on the same page Xsannz. UK popo are bloody good riders, more fail than get a bike to play on. (Noooo disrespect to our homegrown popo, I'm sure it's a bloody hard graft to get your wheels too & based on the same training, on ya!)

[sootie]

Were you watching the CCTV too much?

Not totally wrong actually!!
The real problem was the refocussing time of my eyes. (Younger eyes should be faster, but still too slow I think.)
When you use a mirror you still focus at the total distance to the other vehicle which is always similar to the distance to the car ahead.
With CCTV you look for fine detail in a small close picture & then have to refocus out to 10m or so.
If you do this several times a minute there is quite a lot of time when you are not really seeing anything. This is bad news in my opinion!

Of course, nobody has ever had this problem with studying a GPS - or have they????? :innocent: :innocent:

[george formby]

Not totally wrong actually!!
The real problem was the refocussing time of my eyes. (Younger eyes should be faster, but still too slow I think.)
When you use a mirror you still focus at the total distance to the other vehicle which is always similar to the distance to the car ahead.
With CCTV you look for fine detail in a small close picture & then have to refocus out to 10m or so.
If you do this several times a minute there is quite a lot of time when you are not really seeing anything. This is bad news in my opinion!

Of course, nobody has ever had this problem with studying a GPS - or have they????? :innocent: :innocent:


Yup, t'is just one of the things I dislike about them on a bike, even though the image is designed to be read at a glance I find myself taking to much time putting together what the screen shows & were the road ahead is going. European motorways with mutiple intersections in a very short stretch combined with heavy traffic & rain is very taxing. Amsterdam, Hamburg & the Benelux countries are freaking scary by bike with a sat nav. I ended up just using a blue tooth earpiece & only occasionally looking at the screen. Riding back from the south of France I spent a bit of time plotting my route in advance & mainly used road signs. T'was much betterer.

[sootie]

Yup, t'is just one of the things I dislike about them on a bike, even though the image is designed to be read at a glance I find myself taking to much time putting together what the screen shows & were the road ahead is going. European motorways with mutiple intersections in a very short stretch combined with heavy traffic & rain is very taxing. Amsterdam, Hamburg & the Benelux countries are freaking scary by bike with a sat nav. I ended up just using a blue tooth earpiece & only occasionally looking at the screen. Riding back from the south of France I spent a bit of time plotting my route in advance & mainly used road signs. T'was much betterer.

Well said, and good for you in recognising the potential problem. I can understand why a GPS is so much more necessary in Europe than here in NZ. Population densities are high, the roads are much older, and routing becomes very complicated in many instances. Personally, I just use the "pre program from a paper map" approach in NZ or Australia, (as you suggest) but I will change if the need ever really arises.

Actually, along the same lines, I have a quite cramped speedo display on the ZX11, and the speed does tend to creep up! To make it easy to galnce at, I have added a big red wedge of red tape. When the white needle hits that I have reached "Law Enforcement Interest" territory! :) :)