Daytime running lamps? [Archive]

george formby

16th October 2012, 10:10

GTRMAN

16th October 2012, 10:15

So why did you want to fit them in the first place ????

Be Safe Be Seen......

imdying

16th October 2012, 10:18

Weird. My bike has them from the factory, and they're always on. Maybe it's exempt because they're OEM?

FJRider

16th October 2012, 10:27

As I understand ... their use is permitted, to use instead of having the headlight on in daytime ... if you don't want to have your headlight on in daytime. Mostly intended for motorcycles that have "delicate" electrical systems ... that risk serious electrical "issues" when running the headlight.

If you want extra lights ... buy a gold wing .. ;)

imdying

16th October 2012, 11:51

I wasn't a fan at first, but they do a great job of making the bike more visible; might be the type of light, the white LEDs are quite distinctive.

ducatilover

16th October 2012, 11:57

Weird. My bike has them from the factory, and they're always on. Maybe it's exempt because they're OEM?
Same here.

Just put a set on and have them switched for a WoF, there's no reason to call them day time running lamps
Failing it for being more visible would be a tiny bit silly too

FJRider

16th October 2012, 12:17

Same here.

Just put a set on and have them switched for a WoF, there's no reason to call them day time running lamps
Failing it for being more visible would be a tiny bit silly too

Personally ... I would go ask the person I usually get MY WoF from ...

Or ... fit them un-switched. Cheaper and easier.

Gremlin

16th October 2012, 12:55

Weird. My bike has them from the factory, and they're always on. Maybe it's exempt because they're OEM?
Can you clarify please? As far as I am aware, no motorcycles have DRL fitted ex factory?

As the law states, you may not run your main headlight(s) at the same time as DRLs. One or the other and this law applies to both cars and bikes.

Bassmatt

16th October 2012, 13:11

What, exactly, contitutes a drl? Are the lights in the corner of the main lights in this pic considered to be drl's?

271778

Gremlin

16th October 2012, 13:33

What, exactly, contitutes a drl? Are the lights in the corner of the main lights in this pic considered to be drl's?
Generally referred to as park lamps by manufacturers, motorcycles actually aren't allowed these either (ran into this last WOF) and couldn't get an answer from NZTA other than a lemming saying "here is the law, now obey it coz I said so".

Park lamps are classified as forward facing position lamps instead, and you are allowed a maximum of 2.

imdying

16th October 2012, 13:45

Can you clarify please? As far as I am aware, no motorcycles have DRL fitted ex factory?

As the law states, you may not run your main headlight(s) at the same time as DRLs. One or the other and this law applies to both cars and bikes.

Sure :yes:

<img src="http://i00.i.aliimg.com/photo/v0/490158344/OEM_Style_Black_Mirrors_For_CBR1000RR_CBR.jpg" />

That was the best I could find. At the very outer points of the indicators, those white bits are the DRL. I have to say I am impressed, definitely makes the bike a larger target for cagers to aim for :yes:

It's also the first bike I've had that hasn't got a park light setting, at least not that I've found on the ignition lock.

davereid

16th October 2012, 14:14

My Harley has the front indicators on all the time, I think its a very good feature. It gives the bike width, and I think that helps with depth and speed perception. I think the white LEDS are far more visible than a dipped headlight, its a very clear white/blue light, rather than the yellowish cast from my OEM HD headlight.

ducatilover

16th October 2012, 14:49

Can you clarify please? As far as I am aware, no motorcycles have DRL fitted ex factory?

As the law states, you may not run your main headlight(s) at the same time as DRLs. One or the other and this law applies to both cars and bikes.
My Bros650.
My CB400 SF
My ZZR400K
My ZZR600D
These all had factory DRL. Generally seen on U.K market bikes, and it's usually running a twin filament front indicator bulb (the CB had OE headlight always on, and DRL indicators)

Gremlin

16th October 2012, 14:58

Sure :yes:
Ah, come to think of it, a mate with a newish CBR1000RR has something in his mirror/indicators, wasn't sure if it was OEM. I think those can be on with headlights, in which case they are forward facing position lamps...

These all had factory DRL. Generally seen on U.K market bikes, and it's usually running a twin filament front indicator bulb (the CB had OE headlight always on, and DRL indicators)
I can't think of it right now, but they are classified as something else...

imdying

16th October 2012, 15:29

Ah, come to think of it, a mate with a newish CBR1000RR has something in his mirror/indicators, wasn't sure if it was OEM. I think those can be on with headlights, in which case they are forward facing position lamps...Yeah, or maybe marker lamp or some other esoteric name... odd thing to ban though, they really do make the bike much wider than it would otherwise be... and correct on the model designation :yes:

scumdog

16th October 2012, 15:51

I fitted them to both Harleys here, never had WOF issues and they certainly add to being visible.:yes:

SPman

16th October 2012, 16:03

My FZR750 had the front indicators both lit up all the time...they had a double filament bulb so functioned as indicators as well. Good at night - cars would slow down real quick if you whipped up behind them - must of thought I was polis......

LankyBastard

16th October 2012, 16:05

Ive got LED strips on both handguards, as my Tiger has shit OEM low beams. Got sick of cars pulling out in from of me in dusk/dawn conditions. The LED's are a great improvement to my bike's visibility that's for sure! Bugger what the precise legality of it all is, they are doing their intended job abmirably. Besides if you take it to the right place for a wof they can sometimes foget they even saw that (or your full race exhaust) :whistle:

Hawk

16th October 2012, 16:10

Ive also got forward facing LEDS had no problems with WOF or law enforcement and it surly does increase your visabilty
more info here (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/128861-How-are-LED-strips-classified-under-the-law)

sootie

16th October 2012, 16:58

My bike has a full fairing, and I did not want to fit LEDs as they would definitely look a bit odd. I did want to improve forward visibility though, so I fitted a little after market box (tradename: VISI ).
This allows the yellow front indicator lights (each 21Watt single filament) to indicate normally as a turn indicator, but both come on permanently (only) when no turn indication is being given. The guys I ride with say the light splatter from these is far more noticeable by day than the headlight, and is never dazzling to anyone at night.

This arrangement simply emulates what was pretty standard on all the light Japanese motorcycles of the 1970s & early 80s, and is still used a bit on current bikes (as has been stated earlier).

The permanent light feature can be switched off (useful if the bike has not been started for a few weeks). I showed this arrangement to my AA WOF man recently (who is a biker & pretty sharp about most bike stuff) & he was quite happy with it & agreed that it added significantly to bike forward visibility.

This bike uses a controlled field alternator (like cars) and it does not even notice the extra lighting load. FYI

MrKiwi

16th October 2012, 20:36

So a question for you WOF issuing type guys...

I am thinking of adding daytime running lamps to my bike, so I thought I would check on the LTSA website regarding the do's and don'ts and it says that you can have them but they have to be disabled when the headlight is on. Now my bike does not have a headlamp switch, it is on all the time....

So that means they are illegal for my bike? Seems like a bit of a crock to me...

I've fitted them to my bike and have a switch to turn them off if I want to, whereas the headlights stay on all the time. The Police (helpfully) ignore the lighting Rule that says you can not have daytime running lights on at the same time as headlights. I turn them off for a warrant. I run the LED daytime running lights on in addition to my head lights at all other times as it adds to the conspicuity of my bike.

I haven't been ticked yet and will keep doing this until I am. In the mean time I have been advocating to the powers that be that we change the rules that makes it permissible for motorbikes to run with both headlights and daytime running lights. Just my two cents worth...

sootie

16th October 2012, 21:47

I've fitted them to my bike and have a switch to turn them off if I want to, whereas the headlights stay on all the time. The Police (helpfully) ignore the lighting Rule that says you can not have daytime running lights on at the same time as headlights. I turn them off for a warrant. I run the LED daytime running lights on in addition to my head lights at all other times as it adds to the conspicuity of my bike.

I haven't been ticked yet and will keep doing this until I am. In the mean time I have been advocating to the powers that be that we change the rules that makes it permissible for motorbikes to run with both headlights and daytime running lights. Just my two cents worth...

As you say, it is technically illegal to run DRLs and your headlight together. However if you have only 2 point sources of light (unlike LED strips) at the front you could then call them position lights. There does not seem to be any law about moving vehicles displaying these in NZ. There may be some issues with the maximum angle & photometric brightness of the point light sources you choose, but it really does start getting a bit esoteric at this stage! Have a read: http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/get-your-lights-right/get-your-lights-right.html#position :innocent:

BMWST?

16th October 2012, 21:56

i am gonna fit a hella daytime light to the ol beemer,it seems to have a "delicate" charging system

MrKiwi

17th October 2012, 18:16

As you say, it is technically illegal to run DRLs and your headlight together. However if you have only 2 point sources of light (unlike LED strips) at the front you could then call them position lights. There does not seem to be any law about moving vehicles displaying these in NZ. There may be some issues with the maximum angle & photometric brightness of the point light sources you choose, but it really does start getting a bit esoteric at this stage! Have a read: http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/get-your-lights-right/get-your-lights-right.html#position :innocent:

Thanks sootie, that's an interesting angle I hadn't thought about.

Oakie

18th October 2012, 16:56

My Bros650.
My CB400 SF
My ZZR400K
My ZZR600D
These all had factory DRL.

My '81(?) KZ400 ... but not MY CB400 SF

martybabe

18th October 2012, 17:55

I have a car with daytime running lights which cannot be turned off. I was a bit concerned about this situation with the upcoming WOF, so I checked at two WOF stations and both told me it is not an issue to have headlights and DRLs on together. I'm confused again now :argue:

Gremlin

18th October 2012, 18:02

martybabe

18th October 2012, 18:10

There are clauses within the VIRM about factory equipment. Basically, if it's as-factory, then it's allowed.

They're not factory, they're LED strips like yours. Seems like a big grey area and it mostly depends where you get your WOF done. If I had an off switch then it shouldn't be an issue anywhere, right?

I fail to see how this has become an issue when every second car burns my retinas out with badly adjusted and permanently 'on' fog lights, especially at night.

Thanks for your reply.

Gremlin

18th October 2012, 18:20

They're not factory, they're LED strips like yours. Seems like a big grey area and it mostly depends where you get your WOF done. If I had an off switch then it shouldn't be an issue anywhere, right?

As you say, depends where you go. The VIRM states that DRL may not operate when the headlight operates, so my take on that is separately switched doesn't comply, as they could operate...

I agree it's stupid, after all they made the law for motorcycles to have headlights on at all times, stating safety and visibility. At the same time, people campaign to have all vehicle lights on all the time... 0 safety for motorcycles.

Tis a mad world :weird:

BMWST?

22nd October 2012, 08:24

I fail to see how this has become an issue when every second car burns my retinas out with badly adjusted and permanently 'on' fog lights, especially at night.

Thanks for your reply.

They not proper fog lights then,however users of rear fog lights really do my head in(and my night vision)

caspernz

22nd October 2012, 14:45

I'm a fan of DRLs, got Hella LEDs on the car. On the bike it turned into too big a hassle to fit LEDs, so I opted for the HID headlight conversion. This achieves something similar to the LEDs in DRLs, brighter light. Yep, strictly speaking illegal on my bike, but hey if you know the outfit issuing your WOF doesn't have a problem with it...:laugh:

Monsterbishi

22nd October 2012, 16:39

So if 'park' lights are illegal on bikes, can I call mine a DRL and that will satisfy the legal requirements to have one?

GTRMAN

22nd October 2012, 16:54

So the consensus is that the law is an ass and it really comes down to what your local WOF issuer lets you get away with?

sootie

22nd October 2012, 17:05

So if 'park' lights are illegal on bikes, can I call mine a DRL and that will satisfy the legal requirements to have one?

Please see: http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/ge....html#position (http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/get-your-lights-right/get-your-lights-right.html#position)
Quote: "Motorcycles may have one or two front position lamps and one or two rear position lamps."

(this seems to exclude LED strips of more than 2 LEDs total.)

also in an earlier para referring to Position Lights:
"They are also known as ‘park lights’, ‘side lights’ and in the case or rear position lamps, ‘tail lights’."

The only question here is the bit about position lights having to be of low power, and if you dig deeper, there also seems to be a question re the viewing angle of park lights.

You can not use a DRL when your headlight is on, and under the new law it must always be on!
Surely that means that you are not allowed to use a DRL on a motorcycle?
It would seem safer to drop all references to DRLs around motorcycles.

MrKiwi

17th November 2012, 09:26

...

You can not use a DRL when your headlight is on, and under the new law it must always be on!
Surely that means that you are not allowed to use a DRL on a motorcycle?
It would seem safer to drop all references to DRLs around motorcycles.

That is correct, technically speaking the law means you must not run daytime running lights on at the same time as headlights on. The law on DRL was designed for cars - not motorbikes. When the mandatory headlight rule was done for motorbikes, the question of DRL on motorbikes was not addressed. It was an oversight, it was not thought about mainly because at the time people were not running DRL's on motorbikes anywhere to the extent we are now.

I run DRL (LEDs) on my motorbike all the time. I leave them permanently on with my headlights. I have been doing this for a year and so long as I make sure the angle of the LED's is set to dip the Police seem not to take notice. When getting a warrant, I switch the LED's off. However, this is unsatisfactory as it is left to the discretion of the Police. I'd like to see the law changed and I am advocating that it be permissible (not mandatory) for motorbikes to have additional front facing white lights for safety reasons (adds to the bikes conspicuity).

BMWST?

18th November 2012, 08:10

I'd like to see the law changed and I am advocating that it be permissible (not mandatory) for motorbikes to have additional front facing white lights for safety reasons (adds to the bikes conspicuity).
I would like to have the option of DRL or headlight.The old BMW doesn't have the charging system to keep the battery charged when running round town with the headlight on

sootie

18th November 2012, 10:57

I would like to have the option of DRL or headlight.The old BMW doesn't have the charging system to keep the battery charged when running round town with the headlight on

Agree that many bikes have trouble with running a headlight & maintaining battery charge around town.
(A lot of riders have not cottoned on to this yet!)

I don't think you would ever get anything with legal implications as simple as "DRLs or headlight" by day.
We currently have LED, HID, quartz-halogen & standard incandescent lighting technologies in use on the roads.
The ratios of light output to wattage among these is huge, and continuously evolving.

I agree with the "DRLs or headlight" principle, but how would you specify it? Specify a minimum light output?

BMWST?

18th November 2012, 11:06

Agree that many bikes have trouble with running a headlight & maintaining battery charge around town.
(A lot of riders have not cottoned on to this yet!)

I don't think you would ever get anything with legal implications as simple as "DRLs or headlight" by day.
We currently have LED, HID, quartz-halogen & standard incandescent lighting technologies in use on the roads.
The ratios of light output to wattage among these is huge, and continuously evolving.

I agree with the "DRLs or headlight" principle, but how would you specify it? Specify a minimum light output?

dont know mate..i guess there is a european std,but i am gonna buy a hella led drl,wire it up through a relay so its on all the time UNLESS the headlight is on and see what transpires prolly the 1008

madandy

18th November 2012, 11:57

Saw a bike with 2 drl's, one either side on fairings, facing forward but visible up to about 45 degrees and it was very visible to me from near perpendicular as it turned toward me at an intersection.
I'll be fitting some to my next bike for sure.

There are many trucks using them that aren't wired correctly, some having 2 and 3 pairs of drl!

FJRider

18th November 2012, 14:23

You can not use a DRL when your headlight is on, and under the new law it must always be on!
Surely that means that you are not allowed to use a DRL on a motorcycle?
It would seem safer to drop all references to DRLs around motorcycles.

Actually ... the law states ..

If your motorcycle was manufactured on or after 1 January 1980, you must use your headlight on dip (low beam) or daytime running lamps during daylight hours.

The law clearly states not ALL motorcycles are required to have headlights (OR running lights) on during daylight hours ... as most people seem to believe.

MrKiwi

18th November 2012, 16:04

Actually ... the law states ..

If your motorcycle was manufactured on or after 1 January 1980, you must use your headlight on dip (low beam) or daytime running lamps during daylight hours.

The law clearly states not ALL motorcycles are required to have headlights (OR running lights) on during daylight hours ... as most people seem to believe.

It's both on at once that you're not meant to run with, which is what I do, both headlights and DRLs. Hence why I am interested in advocating for it to be permissible to have additional forward facing white lights to be used in conjunction with the head light, if a rider so chooses to do so.

steve_t

18th November 2012, 16:59

It's both on at once that you're not meant to run with, which is what I do, both headlights and DRLs. Hence why I am interested in advocating for it to be permissible to have additional forward facing white lights to be used in conjunction with the head light, if a rider so chooses to do so.

As per a previous post, it's illegal for DRL's to be on when the main headlight is on. HOWEVER, often you'll get away with it by calling them 'positioning lamps'

FJRider

18th November 2012, 17:08

As per a previous post, it's illegal for DRL's to be on when the main headlight is on. HOWEVER, often you'll get away with it by calling them 'positioning lamps'

It would be unlikely (but possible) that you would get a ticket for having both on while riding.

And at WoF time ... if both headlight and DRL's do not come on at the same time ... it should be fine.

Those that are thinking of adding DRL's .. should discuss them with the person/people that do their WoF.

FJRider

18th November 2012, 17:16

As you say, depends where you go. The VIRM states that DRL may not operate when the headlight operates, so my take on that is separately switched doesn't comply, as they could operate...

Is may not (as in should not/not allowed) ... be interpreted to ... as being different to cannot (not able) ...

Possible (but illegal) ... as opposed to ... impossible (not able)

Subike

18th November 2012, 17:23

So lets tap the knowledge of those who have done it.
1. For a sports bike, recommend lamps are?
2. For a sports touring naked?
3. For a sports touring with fairings.
4. for a touring naked.
5 for a metric cruiser large cc
6. for a metric cruisersmall cc
7, forget the harley they are Xmas trees anyway....:love:

Product availability, price, fitting ease, look, pics could be helpfull too.

Come one guys show off your lights and knowledge, let the individual decide if he wants to check out the legality of his requirements

MrKiwi

18th November 2012, 18:04

It would be unlikely (but possible) that you would get a ticket for having both on while riding.

And at WoF time ... if both headlight and DRL's do not come on at the same time ... it should be fine.

Those that are thinking of adding DRL's .. should discuss them with the person/people that do their WoF.

Been riding a year with both DRL and headlights on all the time, so far not stopped and I go past lots of Police. Mind you, I know the law, so if stopped I have nothing to come back on. That is why I am advocating for a law change.

FJRider

18th November 2012, 18:14

Been riding a year with both DRL and headlights on all the time, so far not stopped and I go past lots of Police. Mind you, I know the law, so if stopped I have nothing to come back on. That is why I am advocating for a law change.

Increased awareness of seeing and being seen on the roads ... as far as motorcycles go ... even pedantic cops would see it as a stupid regulation.

Unless you fail the attitude test ...

gloplg

21st November 2012, 12:50

Product availability, price, fitting ease, look, pics could be helpfull too.

Come one guys show off your lights and knowledge, let the individual decide if he wants to check out the legality of his requirements

Ok SB here goes.

My Moto Guzzi v40 has a candlepower headlight and a "delicate" charging circuit. I figured to get a reasonably priced set of led drl's and fit them to the MG and also to my Honda gb400.

I checked out the price in a local motor parts shop:shit::shit::no::no::finger: About $110.00 for a set of two lights.

Crank up TM. Prices went from $100 plus all the way down to $16. Hit buynow Pay $16 plus $5 freight.

Several days later take screwdriver in left hand, big hammer in right and take a lot of the fairing apart. Wired into "park light" hoping that Italian designers wouldn't have park and headlights going together (:finger:to Italian designers) BUGGER!!!!! Measure four times drill once. Use hammer to put everything back together.

Stand back and admire new safety addition. :done:

Drl nice and bright (unlike owner/rider) headlight 2 candlepower. The drl is brighter and more noticeable than the headlight both day and night.

Several days later I discovered this thread:Oops::Oops::doh:

You mean :Police: is going to :spanking: me for making my bike more visable :brick::brick:

That law is :tugger::tugger: and then some.

Anyway "Me Lud" here is the evidence. Guilty as charged.

rastuscat

21st November 2012, 17:36

sootie

21st November 2012, 18:48

Thing is, some bits of law say you can have DRLs, and yet others bits say its illegal to run them along with your headlight.

Then the law says you have to have your headlight on, in fact most bikes you don't have a choice. So, effectively DRLs are ruled out.

But I see them most days, and do absolutely nothing about them, as they increase the visibility of bikes, and how can that be bad?

How can I watch a Toyota Hi Ace van go past with DRLs running, then write a ticket for the bike following with his compulsory headlight and DRLs as well?

Nah, I'd draw a line in the sand and say that most Popos would ignore it, if they even knew the law on it. I'm personally going to fit an LED to the front of mine, and if I get tagged for it, I'll be standing in court arguing that common sense should apply.

Oooohhhhhhhhhhh, headline reads Popo ignores law. Imagine that.
Good for you mate!
I have actually fitted a (commercial) electronic box to my road bike which brings on the front two amber indicator lights when no turn indication is being given. This kind of emulates what some bikes come out with as OEM DRLs but my wattage is higher. I also have a bright yellow high viz strip fitted just below my windscreen.

The whole reason I fitted all this was because cars kept coming out of Compulsory Stops and Giveways straight at me. I worked out that the standard headlight on my bike (ZZR1100) does not actually show up well off the direct forward axis. The cars should see me, but too many were not & I would like to stay alive. The measures taken work well, but vigilance is of course still essential at all intersections.

This box is switched off for my WOF, but I have become quite friendly with the man & last time I showed it to him working. He hesitated briefly & then commented that he thought it was a very good idea!
(He rides a bike himself.)
FYI :)

MrKiwi

21st November 2012, 19:04

I went the slightly expensive route. I imported a pair of of these (http://www.twistedthrottle.com/denali-d1-led-lighting-2-light-kit-with-full-wiring-harness-and-m10-mount )

They only draw 10 watts, each led puts out 1500 lumen. They're great and I am very satisfied with them, well worth the money to get them in my books. I've fitted these onto my crash bars to form a triangle with the headlights (Tiger 955i) which also makes the bike look wider than it normally does and helps to overcome the motion camouflage bikes create with a narrow head light arrangement.

scumdog

21st November 2012, 19:54

But I see them most days, and do absolutely nothing about them, as they increase the visibility of bikes, and how can that be bad?

How can I watch a Toyota Hi Ace van go past with DRLs running, then write a ticket for the bike following with his compulsory headlight and DRLs as well?

Nah, I'd draw a line in the sand and say that most Popos would ignore it, if they even knew the law on it. I'm personally going to fit an LED to the front of mine, and if I get tagged for it, I'll be standing in court arguing that common sense should apply.

Oooohhhhhhhhhhh, headline reads Popo ignores law. Imagine that.

Likwise here, I've had DRLs on my bikes since oh, about '95, never had a problem with the law yet.

And I've not had a problem with anybody else having DRLs either.

(and the WOF man doesn't seem worried about them)

gloplg

21st November 2012, 20:28

Thankyou RC and SD.

leathel

1st April 2013, 22:10

Used the search function... found this thread while trying to sort the legalities of the extra lights

I fitted some "Fog lamps" that I will get a WOF easy enough with..... But then technically I can get ticketed for have them on when its not foggy :shutup:

I could then call them day time running lamps as I don't think they can instant fine for running them and the headlight at once :crazy:

Just 3w jobbies for a start to see how they go and I just mounted them to my guard bolts and I might upspec them when I get round to sorting that and a few other things out

http://dx.com/p/waterproof-3w-1000-1300lm-led-white-light-motorcycle-headlamp-black-12-80v-179403

(Note they are not great quality, If I keep them I will be repainting then and sealing them as they will rust and are not waterproof)

I fitted those, have some lenses that turn the beam flat that will get fitted at some stage, I got of ebay for my pushbike light.... well push bike spot light as its bloody bright.

280728

Only flicked them on to see how they go....not bad for filling it at night to.... Might have to sort something more permanent out

Found this on DX as well

http://dx.com/p/compact-motorcycle-air-horn-with-relay-black-silver-12v-165362

A tad cheaper than the real deal, Wiring that came with it was incorrectly done but I scrapped that anyway and did my own

( I use PayPal with DX or they want to know all sorts before they will send stuff)

veldthui

2nd April 2013, 02:29

Can you clarify please? As far as I am aware, no motorcycles have DRL fitted ex factory?

As the law states, you may not run your main headlight(s) at the same time as DRLs. One or the other and this law applies to both cars and bikes.

My Honda VFR1200 has them as standard. There are LED lights on the mirrors and are on all the time along with the headlight.

wingnutt

6th April 2013, 14:59

you can fit driving lights, and use them during the day or night, providing they are through a seperate switch.

I have extra lights added with no problems. colours though, watch what goes where, for instance, dont point a red one
forward.

with lights facing forward, look to place them, so you create a triangulation. it will make you easier to see.

rastuscat

5th June 2013, 21:01

Got some clarification today. In daytime you can use DRL as long as your headlight switches off when the DRLs switch on.

Completely defeats the purpose. It's an anti safety rule. Knob ends.

cheshirecat

5th June 2013, 21:09

sootie

6th June 2013, 12:59

Hmm. I've got two small white LED's under the front fairing above forks and oddly enough I think they actually make a difference, more so than having the headlights on all the time, donning a white helmet or hi viz which seems to most ineffective of the lot.

I have a piece of electronics which permanently lights the two orange forward indicators at any time neither is indicating a turn. These are 21W bulbs which I believe is again too powerful (by law), but the splatter would never dazzle anyone. I am ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that this is far more effective at improving forward visibility that the headlight or any other form of lighting.
I am friendly with my WOF man who is a long term biker. I think he knew the law, but liked this arragement very much when I switched it on to show him. Cheers :) :)

SMOKEU

7th June 2013, 12:04

There are some nice lights for reasonable prices here (http://dx.com/c/car-accessories-799/motorcycle-gadgets-720/motorcycle-lighting-760).

bogan

7th June 2013, 12:11

Got some clarification today. In daytime you can use DRL as long as your headlight switches off when the DRLs switch on.

Completely defeats the purpose. It's an anti safety rule. Knob ends.

Dicknuts. My DRLs don't turn off when the bike is going.

scumdog

7th June 2013, 19:55

Dicknuts. My DRLs don't turn off when the bike is going.

Just fit a suitable switch - I had to on my bike as my DRLs were such a glare at night.

rastuscat

8th June 2013, 07:25

Just fit a suitable switch - I had to on my bike as my DRLs were such a glare at night.

Irony Scummie.

DRLs are scientifically proven to be of most benefit in low light to dark conditions.

A tri-light formation, with maximum separation horizontally and vertically, makes it easier for a motorist in a give way to judge the onset of an approaching motorcyclist. It's the separation that counts, not just the brightness.

If they are too bright at night, I bet there's a way to reduce the voltage for night riding. Does that work with LEDs? I'm not sure.

I've been reading lots about this before starting a paper to get it made legal to run DRLs at the same time as headlights.

Gremlin

8th June 2013, 12:33

I also work on a triangle of light being very odd and not often seen on the road. Even if the motorist just wonders what on earth that is... it's all I want.

How about asking for park lamps to be legal as well... currently they just classify it as a forward facing position lamp... bit of a problem when your DRL have been classified as forward facing position lamps... You can only have two.

leathel

9th June 2013, 07:40

I run daytime lights and fog lights, the Day running lights off after dark as they are too bright (dusk they are on) The fog lamps are enough after dark as they are still pretty white compared to the headlamp but being lower they don't blind the on coming traffic...... too bright and you are all they see and then it target fixation!

283819

283818

no close up of the day lamps but I was wiring them in here, mounted them using rifle scope rings and a bit of flat welded to the rings.... Cruiser bars are 1"

283817

Yes its not legal to have day lamps and headlight going at one but I will run them both until someone tickets me....I would rather be seen !!

gloplg

9th June 2013, 13:49

I've been reading lots about this before starting a paper to get it made legal to run DRLs at the same time as headlights.

Nice one RC. Thanks for that. More power to your elbow!!!!

AllanB

9th June 2013, 20:07

Nothing illegal about running the front turn signals with a headlight. Cop bikes were wired this way in the 80's and a lot of USA based model motorcycles were. My 82 CSR750 kawasaki was set up that way.

The triangle thingy is why all cars also have a third high level brake light.

Just mount the bloody things and use them - switch them off when you got for a WOF. Just like popping the noise eater in the back of your muffler .....

hayd3n

9th June 2013, 22:01

scored these 1.5 watt ones of trademe for $20 delivered 283842
and some rear ones $10 delivered of ebay
283843

Erelyes

9th June 2013, 23:40

scored these 1.5 watt ones of trademe for $20 delivered

Are they these ones perchance? http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=602256633

kiwi cowboy

10th June 2013, 04:56

hayd3n

10th June 2013, 07:48

Are they these ones perchance? http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=602256633

thats them :)

Paul Searancke

10th June 2013, 20:58

Irony Scummie.

DRLs are scientifically proven to be of most benefit in low light to dark conditions.

A tri-light formation, with maximum separation horizontally and vertically, makes it easier for a motorist in a give way to judge the onset of an approaching motorcyclist. It's the separation that counts, not just the brightness.

If they are too bright at night, I bet there's a way to reduce the voltage for night riding. Does that work with LEDs? I'm not sure.

I've been reading lots about this before starting a paper to get it made legal to run DRLs at the same time as headlights.

There is a project under way which may support a change to the legislation to enable the use of additional lighting configurations. Read more about it here; http://motonz.org.nz/projects/visibilityproject/

Cheers
Paul

nzspokes

10th June 2013, 21:09

Reckon these could be a go, http://dx.com/p/10w-1000lm-6000-7000k-led-white-light-car-motorcycle-headlight-daytime-running-light-dc-12v-185685

What do we think?

bogan

10th June 2013, 21:23

Reckon these could be a go, http://dx.com/p/10w-1000lm-6000-7000k-led-white-light-car-motorcycle-headlight-daytime-running-light-dc-12v-185685

What do we think?

Might be too bright, not sure on the regs regarding DRL brightness/beam pattern. I got some little Cree LEDs for work, 10V and 10W puts out 1000lumens, you have to see them to believe how bright they are, and then you have to wait a while to see much else :bleh:

nzspokes

10th June 2013, 21:37

Might be too bright, not sure on the regs regarding DRL brightness/beam pattern. I got some little Cree LEDs for work, 10V and 10W puts out 1000lumens, you have to see them to believe how bright they are, and then you have to wait a while to see much else :bleh:

Well ive got a 1000lumen bicycle light, I was thinking of using them as spot lights at night as I ride a bit on country roads. Then get some small ones as DRLs.

NordieBoy

10th June 2013, 21:55

If they are too bright at night, I bet there's a way to reduce the voltage for night riding. Does that work with LEDs? I'm not sure.

I'm running 12v 3w ones on the DR650 and TT350.
The TT is a 6v system and they run fine, just not as bright.

As Mr Popo said at a breath test (on the DR), "Wow those LED's are good" :niceone:

<img width=640 src=http://sports.nelson.geek.nz/motorsport/dirt/20120825%20Hira%20Enduro/slides/20120826-122653.jpg>

NordieBoy

10th June 2013, 21:56

Are they these ones perchance? http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=602256633

I got a box of the 3w versions from China for about $8 a pair.

Gremlin

10th June 2013, 23:31

If they are too bright at night, I bet there's a way to reduce the voltage for night riding. Does that work with LEDs? I'm not sure.
Yes, completely possible, but not very common.

Amongst other lights, I have these installed: http://www.clearwaterlights.com/infopg_krista.html

HP-LEDs that have a dimmer, which adjusts anywhere between about 15% and 85%. It turns the lights on and off many times a second, not noticeable to the human eye, but you can see on playback of videos. Turn the light down, and the amount of time per second the lights are off, increases.

nzspokes

11th June 2013, 07:53

Yes, completely possible, but not very common.

Amongst other lights, I have these installed: http://www.clearwaterlights.com/infopg_krista.html

HP-LEDs that have a dimmer, which adjusts anywhere between about 15% and 85%. It turns the lights on and off many times a second, not noticeable to the human eye, but you can see on playback of videos. Turn the light down, and the amount of time per second the lights are off, increases.

$649 usd? :eek5:

leathel

11th June 2013, 08:04

Reckon these could be a go, http://dx.com/p/10w-1000lm-6000-7000k-led-white-light-car-motorcycle-headlight-daytime-running-light-dc-12v-185685

What do we think?

100mm by 100mm is pretty big...

I got these

http://dx.com/p/10w-950lm-led-warm-white-light-motorcycle-daytime-running-light-dc-12v-185112

and they are huge... bigger than the size they say, twice the size of the cheap ones I use as fog lamps

http://dx.com/p/waterproof-3w-1000-1300lm-led-white-light-motorcycle-headlamp-black-12-80v-179403

The ones above are quite cheap and nasty but work OK, I have another driver and chip to fit to up the wattage and have fitted a plastic lined lens to give a wide flat beam.

these are the day lamps I use...

http://dx.com/p/3w-240lm-6000-6500k-3-led-white-light-car-daytime-running-lamps-pair-12v-141175

scumdog

11th June 2013, 08:17

The lights I have on the T-Sport utilise those little 12V light 'bulbs/units' that are about $9 for two at the Warehouse.

They are sealed, a flat face and have two pins at the rear that the wiring attaches to (i.e. no socket)

I think they are 40mm or so in diameter, mostly used as mini-spots in bars, shops and in some newer houses. (well newer than mine!)

Bright-as

The housing that these lights fit into were the expensive item.:crazy:

rastuscat

11th June 2013, 21:53

Gremlin

11th June 2013, 21:58

$649 usd? :eek5:

Don't have access to offshore finance, the Kristas are a bit dear for me.
Sure, they're not cheap, but your question was, is it possible to dim LEDs.

Can they light up reflective boards at 2km on full power... Yes, that's also possible (and awesome) ;)

nzspokes

11th June 2013, 22:32

Sure, they're not cheap, but your question was, is it possible to dim LEDs.

Can they light up reflective boards at 2km on full power... Yes, that's also possible (and awesome) ;)

Rheostat. Would that not work? House light dimmer jumps to mind.

Thinking about it, probably work for hotgrips to.

leathel

12th June 2013, 07:47

there are many circuit boards with 3-5 dimmer setting on DX.com for under $10 (Use a Momentary on switch to cycle through them), not so many in 12V, but there are some that drive an output of 4.2 V and enough amps to drive the tiny XML T6 chip that is very very bright or pretty much any Cree etc, I use that chip to spotlight rabbits and possums, no trouble to 200 yards and it lights reflective boards way way out there...Obviously with a larger reflector than you want as a day light but even with a 40mm reflector it lights up trees well.

I got some boards that have a single output to drive the replacement XML T6 to re-chip my current Fog lights

clint640

12th June 2013, 14:41

Reckon these could be a go, http://dx.com/p/10w-1000lm-6000-7000k-led-white-light-car-motorcycle-headlight-daytime-running-light-dc-12v-185685

What do we think?

I just had a set of these (http://dx.com/p/10w-1000lm-6000k-eagle-eye-white-led-light-for-car-12v-pair-131553) arrive which look a bit similar. Not sure if I'll fit one or both. If they are bright enough to augment high beam I might try wiring them like so: switched by park light (for DRL)/off/switched by high beam. Will keep you posted.

Cheers
Clint

MrKiwi

3rd July 2013, 14:25

I see the NZTA has proposed a change to the rules to allow for day time running lights, I started a new thread today on the proposed rule change...

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/159553-Land-Transport-Rule-Omnibus-Amendment-2013-(Rule-10009)

leathel

7th April 2014, 19:00

I thought I might dredge this thread back up rather than start a new..... I fitted some LED spots on the fork legs of the 1100 and they have been working pretty well

http://www.dx.com/p/10w-950lm-cree-xml-t6-white-led-30-degrees-spot-beam-round-work-light-10-30v-207945#.U0JL2VemT-x

Some evening pics to show how they light up the road, I have fitted filters to give a relatively flat beam and tilted the spots down so they can be run full time on high or low like fog lamps (to light 15-20 meters ahead for big dip & pot hole spotting) and they have been working very well

The pics, the workshop door is 15 meters away.

Spots only, I should bend the brackets to get a wider flood as the overlap a fair bit.

295916

High Beam (throws further than the spots but doesn't flood well)

295917

Spots and high

295918

Low

295919

Low and spots

295920

the spots only draw 10 watts each so I haven't had any battery issues at all to date

Erelyes

8th April 2014, 11:05

I fitted some LED spots on the fork legs of the 1100 and they have been working pretty well

Thanks for the input. Got any pics of them fitted on there?

leathel

8th April 2014, 11:46

Thanks for the input. Got any pics of them fitted on there?

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/162044-The-new-%2820-year-old%29-ride-and-the-progress-thread

some pics in that thread.... They are berried in my photobucket album so easier to link to that thread than find them :)

bogan

8th April 2014, 11:54

leathel

8th April 2014, 13:10

What are they like on the road though, against a wall is only goof for beam pattern, not fill rate. I mean it looks as if the ground immediately in front of you gets as much light as your high beam has to spread over the 50m or more ahead of that. Too bright up close can be a bad thing if it ruins your night vision for the further away stuff.

they are great on the road.. being concrete they look brighter than they do on the road, they are whiter than the headlight but not so bright they blind you loosing the high beam light, the high beam is brighter out further than the spots, the switch is on my bars and flicking the spots off doesn't make it better out further. I was going to change the headlight to the whiter headlight bulb but I haven't yet and don't feel the need to now.

Being the spots are mounted low they shadow the put holes and dips pretty well :D

Ulsterkiwi

21st May 2014, 16:49

I just got Givi halogen lights put on the bike. Came as a kit. They dont look so bright when you stand beside them but when riding very early the other morning my mate (who was in front) asked me to turn them off, he couldnt see anything but the lights. Slight exaggeration I think and they probably do need a bit of adjustment. :rolleyes:
I definitely feel they make me more conspicuous though. Not safer, just more likely to be seen. I was filtering through heavy traffic yesterday on the way home and there were definitely more people who moved aside to let me through.

SuperMac

23rd May 2014, 08:11

Ulsterkiwi

23rd May 2014, 08:24

Worth considering that if your mate was dazzled and he has typical bike mirrors they'll be above car driver eye height, and so even if they're not dazzled (why would your mate lie?) then they're not likely to be able to see your indicators.

nah not implying he would lie, he said he 'couldnt see anything else but my lights', considering we had been riding for a couple of kms he probably meant something a bit less than complete blindness :laugh:

but I see your point. here are a couple of photos, one is with the indicator on, I wonder how much the flashing makes it stand out? I understand I do need to adjust them though. Is there a trick to it or simply trial and error?297285297284

Urano

23rd May 2014, 09:22

I wonder how much the flashing makes it stand out?

not much, actually.
it seems to me that the drl are definitely too bright.

moreover, i'd put them further below, nearer to the ground... :niceone:

R650R

21st July 2014, 17:41

About to fits some extra DRL/spots, any traps for the unwary from our inspection experts, eg like above how close to indicators etc...

NordieBoy

21st July 2014, 18:49

Put them wherever is convenient, on a switch and angle then down slightly.

SuperMac

23rd July 2014, 04:47

About to fits some extra DRL/spots, any traps for the unwary from our inspection experts, eg like above how close to indicators etc...

DRL and spots are intended to achieve two totally different things.

DRL should have a wide spread of light, while spots are a beam aimed in a certain way (eg to assist long-distance, supplementing main beam, or fog lights giving a low short spread which avoids reflection from water droplets).

DRL should be bright enough to be seen, but not cause glare. Compare that with main beam which can be seen from a distance and dipped beam which is intended to illuminate some of the road but has a cut-off to avoid dazzling drivers.

awayatc

23rd July 2014, 06:44

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/162044-The-new-%2820-year-old%29-ride-and-the-progress-thread

They are berried

Straw, rasp or boysen......?:drool:

NordieBoy

23rd July 2014, 08:01

DRL and spots are intended to achieve two totally different things.

DRL should have a wide spread of light, while spots are a beam aimed in a certain way (eg to assist long-distance, supplementing main beam, or fog lights giving a low short spread which avoids reflection from water droplets).

DRL should be bright enough to be seen, but not cause glare. Compare that with main beam which can be seen from a distance and dipped beam which is intended to illuminate some of the road but has a cut-off to avoid dazzling drivers.

Then there's my 3w dots. They're DRL's with no light throw at all. Only there to be seen.

Big Dog

23rd July 2014, 14:49

Big Dog

23rd July 2014, 14:51

More info at: http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/get-your-lights-right/get-your-lights-right.html

Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

Erelyes

23rd July 2014, 21:17

NZTA states Daytime Running Lights must automatically turn off whenever the main or dipped beams are engaged.

Hence my bike is fitted with body position lights.
Which may be white or amber at the front or amber or red at the rear, no more than 1.5m off the ground unless mounting at less than 1.5 would be difficult.
They may not dazzle.

Mmmm. Thing is, your factory park lights count as position lamps. VIRM also states that a bike may only have
-1 or 2 position lamps at the front
-1 or 2 position lamps at the rear.

It can be well worthwhile upgrading factory parklights so they are more easily seen during the day. I have some high-power LED jobbies on the boat from China at the mo. You'll still have to run either DRLs or the dipped beam headlamp(s) as well tho.

Gremlin

23rd July 2014, 21:32

Mmmm. Thing is, your factory park lights count as position lamps. VIRM also states that a bike may only have
-1 or 2 position lamps at the front
-1 or 2 position lamps at the rear.

Which is goddamn fucken annoying... I remove the factory one for every WOF but it detects it's missing... Irritating.

R650R

23rd July 2014, 22:37

NZTA states Daytime Running Lights must automatically turn off whenever the main or dipped beams are engaged.

Hence my bike is fitted with body position lights.
Which may be white or amber at the front or amber or red at the rear, no more than 1.5m off the ground unless mounting at less than 1.5 would be difficult.
They may not dazzle.
There is no requirement to switch them.

Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

This seems the most accurate reply, that other link someone else posted was about cars...

Found another link direct to the MC wof stuff and Big Dog is right, can also do the same and call them fog lights.
One of them says not to be mounted above the high beam. The lights I have are switchable so should be all good as position or fog...
Despite the latest amendment it says DRLs cannot be on when the headlight is on, which does seem stupid as most headlamps are hardwired on now.

hayd3n

23rd July 2014, 23:25

9w leds baby great to detect the ice on the raods and has stopped a few from cutting in front
299447
i also have some little terminator tail lights but need to get a pic these have stopped tailgaters :)

SuperMac

24th July 2014, 08:17

9w leds and has stopped a few from cutting in front

these have stopped tailgaters :)

Did the drivers tell you?

Big Dog

24th July 2014, 13:13

Mmmm. Thing is, your factory park lights count as position lamps. VIRM also states that a bike may only have
-1 or 2 position lamps at the front
-1 or 2 position lamps at the rear.

It can be well worthwhile upgrading factory parklights so they are more easily seen during the day. I have some high-power LED jobbies on the boat from China at the mo. You'll still have to run either DRLs or the dipped beam headlamp(s) as well tho.

Factory park lights are indicators. Cannot be operated with the engine running.

Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

Big Dog

24th July 2014, 13:15

This seems the most accurate reply, that other link someone else posted was about cars...

Found another link direct to the MC wof stuff and Big Dog is right, can also do the same and call them fog lights.
One of them says not to be mounted above the high beam. The lights I have are switchable so should be all good as position or fog...
Despite the latest amendment it says DRLs cannot be on when the headlight is on, which does seem stupid as most headlamps are hardwired on now.
Not to mention an operating headlight is now a requirement to even use the road.

Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

BMWST?

24th July 2014, 18:23

Not to mention an operating headlight is now a requirement to even use the road.

Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.
But if you have DRL,do you still need a headlight.?i was gonna get led drl so I dont have to run headlight all the time

Big Dog

24th July 2014, 18:28

I am not an authority on that subject. I have always ridden with it on because 20 years ago a mechanic advised me that the electrics were optimised to cope with the light on. This meant there was a little extra work for the regulator rectifier works hard with it off to cope with the surplus charge.

Sounded reasonable.
Especially so when only 2 bikes were not hard wired. And both could be left with the light on permanently.

Why don't you want your light on?

Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

BMWST?

24th July 2014, 19:31

hayd3n

24th July 2014, 19:45

Did the drivers tell you?

i see them notice me in their rear-view mirror whereas before they would just cut

Big Dog

25th July 2014, 01:29

Because I have a bike with a charging sytem that doesnt work so well in town

OIC.

Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

Erelyes

25th July 2014, 12:44

But if you have DRL,do you still need a headlight.?i was gonna get led drl so I dont have to run headlight all the time

You are required to use (During the daytime) either your headlight OR your DRLs. The DRLS may be aftermarket. So yes, you can reduce the load on your charging system by adding DRLs to your bike, but to pass a WOF the DRLs must turn off when the headlight's running.

I'm trying to find a modern "off-low-high" headlight switch for this very purpose, because on most modern bikes the headlight's on all the time.

Factory park lights are indicators.

I'm not sure what you mean. Are you saying there's a pair of lights always on, but that operate as indicators as well?

Big Dog

25th July 2014, 12:51

You are required to use (During the daytime) either your headlight OR your DRLs. The DRLS may be aftermarket. So yes, you can reduce the load on your charging system by adding DRLs to your bike, but to pass a WOF the DRLs must turn off when the headlight's running.

I'm trying to find a modern "off-low-high" headlight switch for this very purpose, because on most modern bikes the headlight's on all the time.

I'm not sure what you mean. Are you saying there's a pair of lights always on, but that operate as indicators as well?

The park lights are only able to engage by turning the bike off and consist of the indicators lighting. If you only turn the key to park only the tail light comes on. If you turn to p and turn on hazards the indicators light solid and the tail light lights.

If you turn to off and hazard the indicators flash.

At all other times the indicators are dark unless the motor is running and they are triggered.

Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

BMWST?

25th July 2014, 13:38

You are required to use (During the daytime) either your headlight OR your DRLs. The DRLS may be aftermarket. So yes, you can reduce the load on your charging system by adding DRLs to your bike, but to pass a WOF the DRLs must turn off when the headlight's running.

I'm trying to find a modern "off-low-high" headlight switch for this very purpose, because on most modern bikes the headlight's on all the time.

I'm not sure what you mean. Are you saying there's a pair of lights always on, but that operate as indicators as well?
I suggest you dont use a off low high switch use a completely seperate off on switch.Its rather disconcerting to turn your lights off when you meant to select high beam instead

Erelyes

25th July 2014, 14:32

.....

Got it. Clever setup.

I suggest you dont use a off low high switch use a completely seperate off on switch.Its rather disconcerting to turn your lights off when you meant to select high beam instead

Good point, I had hoped that engagement would be fairly positive, such that switching from high down to low was easy to do without the rocker going to the 'Off' position. Suppose with glubs on at night it could be easy to duff it though with possibly dire consequences.

Big Dog

25th July 2014, 21:30

Got it. Clever setup.

Good point, I had hoped that engagement would be fairly positive, such that switching from high down to low was easy to do without the rocker going to the 'Off' position. Suppose with glubs on at night it could be easy to duff it though with possibly dire consequences.

Disambiguation: my supplementary lights are white led bars set into my handguards. They are on as long as the key is.

Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

R650R

25th July 2014, 22:37

I suggest you dont use a off low high switch use a completely seperate off on switch.Its rather disconcerting to turn your lights off when you meant to select high beam instead

Used to have a mitsi line haul truck where the extra spotlights had been wired in some dodgy manner. When you went to go back to dip the relay would drop all the lights off until you switched off and on again. Was an intermittent quirk but scary as hell lol

R650R

26th July 2014, 19:11

Another related question, was wanting to move the orange side reflectors to a different location as they are where I want to put my lights.
Upon searching NZTA http://vehicleinspection.nzta.govt.nz/virms/in-service-wof-and-cof/motorcycles I can't find anything specific, have seen sports bikes with them factory mounted on lower fork leg.
Are they a legal requirement, is it an offence to remove them if fitted from new???

Gremlin

26th July 2014, 19:38

I believe the only requirement reflector wise is a rear facing red one.

R650R

27th July 2014, 11:45

Cheers Gremlin.

Well after much reading I have decided that the only way to be compliant is to mount, wire and operate them as fog lamps (which requires ability to separately switch them off) is the only legal way. (and run the rare risk of a ticket for using them on deserted road at night in clear conditions with high beam on etc ie no actual fog)
To run as daytime running lamps mean the headlight must be disabled in some manner of switchery which defeats the purpose and they are not allowed to be off sufficient power to illuminate the road.
And to run third option as Forward facing postion lamp it must be of a low power style light.
The lights are 10W LED with three settings and a very subtle button on back to change this.

I found another note in that if such setup I want to install was already on bike from manufacturer (eg like suzuki did with the limited edition Yoshi gsxrs) it would be legal 100%!!!! Its just like the roof mounted truck spotlights you see on Scanias. They are legal if factory fitted and there at first COF but your screwed if you try to install them at a later date.

We need Rastus and our other lobbyist/submitters to govt to argue for a law that you can fit anything that increases visibility as long as its professionally mounted and wont annoy/blind other road users under normal operating conditions. This naming of every type of operation is just a beaurecratic brickwall to improving visibility and night vision easily...

These are the lights I have keeping the bench warm btw http://www.trailtech.net/lighting/led/60mm-led

legal guff:

http://vehicleinspection.nzta.govt.nz/virms/in-service-wof-and-cof/motorcycles/lighting/forward-facing-position-lamps

http://vehicleinspection.nzta.govt.nz/virms/in-service-wof-and-cof/motorcycles/lighting/daytime-running-lamps

http://vehicleinspection.nzta.govt.nz/virms/in-service-wof-and-cof/motorcycles/lighting/front-and-rear-fog-lamps

varminter

27th July 2014, 14:19

Cheers Gremlin.

These are the lights I have keeping the bench warm btw http://www.trailtech.net/lighting/led/60mm-led

The price seems a bit steep, I was looking at these:

http://www.supercheapauto.co.nz/online-store/products/Calibre-LED-Work-Lamp-10-Watt-12V.aspx?pid=343117&menuFrom=40202#Cross

Gremlin

27th July 2014, 17:35

Rastus has already tried to get DRL and headlamp on together for motorcycles without success. Yes... it is ridiculous. Same sort of reasoning is why I'll never support headlights on 24/7 for cars.

I've got Clearwater Kristas (36W each) for "fog" lamps, and use them most of the time (dimmed to minimum brightness), but on high beam they go to full power. Awesome for night riding. I've had a set of Denali D1 (10W each) fitted as well, as cornering lamps, but angled up and out to fill the holes... no way they are legal for WOF though. I used to remove them for WOFs, but not doing much night riding currently, so after last WOF I never re-fitted.

For forward facing position lamps, I've got strips of LEDs along the handguards, and these I use at night to replace the Kristas (too bright at night on lowest setting), plus being hard wired, I have navigation light around the bike when stopping in the middle of the country with no other light.

Next WOF will be interesting. I'll have a set of flashing orange lights fitted (finalised the build just after WOF this year) for some sporting events I do (four, two each side, all on the front). Technically, they're not part of a WOF (same as retroreflective material), but we'll see if the inspector knows that...

R650R

27th July 2014, 19:36

Wonder if that was yours I was drooling over on last MMMMM ride, was a BMW that had them.

Well fitted them anyway, angled downwards lower than spec and no dramas on low (3W). Looking at cars coming the other way, its not lighting up their faces or sides of car etc even when on high.
But when on High (10W) I did get high beamed by cars on four occasions out of about 100 I would have driven past during 20min ride.
Stopping at roadside, getting off and looking back they look fine, I think some people get possum syndrome though and stare directly at the light source.
I've had truck lights that were wrongly set from new and you could see them shine on peoples faces but not these.
Will angle them up a little more and just treat as a set of unofficial high beams when coming home late on trips over taupo and wairoa roads etc...

Orange flashing beacons whether rotators or LED, you are supposed to have a separate permit from NZTA to have them on your vehicle along with valid reason but yeah prob not part of WOF.
Something else that's never policed unless you fail the attitude test though...

R650R

27th July 2014, 19:42

Rastus has already tried to get DRL and headlamp on together for motorcycles without success.

I'll agree to do an ACC riding course if he gets the changes sorted I mentioned earlier and even bring the donuts :)

This offer expires in six months time and is not valid in the event of me losing my license prior or having vehicle impounded ;p

BMWST?

27th July 2014, 19:53

Gremlin

27th July 2014, 19:58

Wonder if that was yours I was drooling over on last MMMMM ride, was a BMW that had them.
I've only done one MMMMM ride, pretty sure it was 2012.

Will angle them up a little more and just treat as a set of unofficial high beams when coming home late on trips over taupo and wairoa roads etc...
Yeup. Only problem I've found is having such a powerful high beam, you get used to all the light (or blinded from bounce back of reflective boards) and then an oncoming car means you switch to dipped... Oh crap, are the lights even working?! :laugh:

Orange flashing beacons whether rotators or LED, you are supposed to have a separate permit from NZTA to have them on your vehicle along with valid reason but yeah prob not part of WOF.
Something else that's never policed unless you fail the attitude test though...
VIRM specifically mentions they are excluded from inspection. Road User Rules 2004 in Section 11 (Flashing beacons) mentions permitted use, and there's a catch all clause that if you're operating in or around a hazard you're permitted to use them. Otherwise, it's acting in accordance with traffic management plan etc. Only use them around the events, so they're fitted for about half the year, during the season.

GrayWolf

28th July 2014, 13:21

So a question for you WOF issuing type guys...

I am thinking of adding daytime running lamps to my bike, so I thought I would check on the LTSA website regarding the do's and don'ts and it says that you can have them but they have to be disabled when the headlight is on. Now my bike does not have a headlamp switch, it is on all the time....

So that means they are illegal for my bike? Seems like a bit of a crock to me...

I brought two of the 10 watt Cree spotlamps (not cheap) and use them when required, advantage is, as they are spots I can switch them on and off with dipped beam on, they must be electrically switched off on high beam,,, (dont need high with them anyway) I just have the spots set to go very slightly past the low beam cut off, to avoid dazzling oncoming vehicles.

russd7

28th July 2014, 19:48

Orange flashing beacons whether rotators or LED, you are supposed to have a separate permit from NZTA to have them on your vehicle along with valid reason but yeah prob not part of WOF.
Something else that's never policed unless you fail the attitude test though...

interesting case a few year ago up north somewheres about thses, was a farmer had them on his vehicles whilst moving stock along the road, a cop fined him for having then as at the time they were the sole domain of road workers and the like, cocky took it to court and the judge threw it out with some rather not nice words to the cop involved suggestng that it was far better for the cocky to have them going so as to warn traffic of a hazard, now the regulations for moving stock on a state highway requires the use of flashing amber beacons at front and rear to warn traffic of the hazard. Never once have i applied for or even knew about the necessity of a permit and i used them regularly including on the tractor.

speeding_ant

28th July 2014, 20:07

http://www.dx.com/p/10w-950lm-cree-xml-t6-white-led-30-degrees-spot-beam-round-work-light-10-30v-207945#.U9YIg1aaKhM

Good ip rating, and has reviews.

leathel

28th July 2014, 23:35

http://www.dx.com/p/10w-950lm-cree-xml-t6-white-led-30-degrees-spot-beam-round-work-light-10-30v-207945#.U9YIg1aaKhM

Good ip rating, and has reviews.

That is what I have on mine.... but I put a lens in front to give a flat beam, very bright, pretty well made but I did alter the mount a little to get it solid but easy to sort, they have done a good lot of hours running with no issues.

only drama was the wait for them to arrive !

http://www.dx.com/p/mz-10w-cree-xm-l-t6-800lm-6500k-led-white-light-round-spot-work-lamps-black-2-pcs-9-45v-325684#.U9Y2J2NhsTB

cheaper as a pair... not that I got them as a pair

Gremlin

29th July 2014, 00:22

VIRM specifically mentions they are excluded from inspection. Road User Rules 2004 in Section 11 (Flashing beacons) mentions permitted use, and there's a catch all clause that if you're operating in or around a hazard you're permitted to use them. Otherwise, it's acting in accordance with traffic management plan etc. Only use them around the events, so they're fitted for about half the year, during the season.
Ok, got that slightly mixed up. :facepalm:

Land Transport (Road User) Rule 2004 in Section 8.5 (1) (g) is a catch all re stationary or slow moving to warn other road users of a hazard nearby: http://legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2004/0427/latest/DLM303649.html?search=qs_act%40bill%40regulation%4 0deemedreg_vehicle+lighting_resel_25_h&p=1

Land Transport Rule: Vehicle Lighting 2004 is Section 11 - 11.2(4) c: http://nzta.thomsonreuters.co.nz/DLEG-NZL-LTSA-T.LTR-32005.pdf
"a vehicle for which the use of the beacon is necessary to warn road users of a hazard due to the presence of the vehicle or of persons carrying out a lawful activity on the road in the vicinity of the [vehicle;]"

Anyway, reckon it's fine. Other sections refer to traffic management plans etc.

rastuscat

30th July 2014, 06:41

Heads up all readers of this thread.

Listen to Gremlin. He's spent far too much time reading the lighting rules, and knows them inside out.

If I have a lighting query, I'll be referring it to him.

Ulsterkiwi

30th July 2014, 08:29

Question for you Rastus. It might seem dumb to ask but In light of the above comment.....Do you fullas not have people who understand the rules and can provide advice on legislation and how to interpret for the purposes of enforcement? Or we the public at the mercy of the random presence of a law degree in the curriculum vitae of the average plod? I am not questioning gremlins experience or expertise but it seems odd that a man like yourself with the resources of the crown at your disposal would defer to an Internet forum for wisdom on a point of law?
Maybe I have misunderstood ?

Gremlin

30th July 2014, 11:47

I am not questioning gremlins experience or expertise but it seems odd that a man like yourself with the resources of the crown at your disposal would defer to an Internet forum for wisdom on a point of law?
He's been here too long. The poor bastard is now trusting someone on the Internets :msn-wink:

I think the trick is, we have lawyers playing with all the legislation in court trying to micro define sections. The problem is, there is a shitload of law, one law defers to another, another has precedence etc. Knowing all that? Sheesh, I've only read the motorcycle lighting over various releases, and it's multiple pages with a lot of ins and outs... The annoying part... I've tried speaking to NZTA to raise an issue with the VIRM as it stands, got some woman who insisted I couldn't speak to anyone higher (she was the manager or whatever), yet couldn't understand my question and kept telling me to read the VIRM...

Erelyes

30th July 2014, 11:48

R650R

30th July 2014, 16:31

... but it seems odd that a man like yourself with the resources of the crown at your disposal would defer to an Internet forum for wisdom on a point of law?
Maybe I have misunderstood ?

translation: He don't want a phone call at 2am from a crash investigator saying some guy from the internet said he authorised installation type X...
You'll be hard pressed to find any enforcement officer or govt official that will say what your allowed to do in any arena as its a whole can of worms... where as saying whats been done wrong is much more clear cut.

MrKiwi

6th August 2014, 12:31

The vehicle lighting Rule as it relates to class L motor vehicles (motorbikes in various shapes and forms) concerning daytime running lights is:

you are now allowed to have four daytime running lights fitted to you motorbike and on at any one time.
your head light, whether or not it is dipped, is not a daytime running light
technically this means if you have daytime running lights switched on then your headlight must be turned off. Put another way, when you turn your headlight on (whether or not dipped) the daytime running lights should turn off. This makes sense for cars, but in my view not for motorbikes.

Also this is not how my motorbike is set up, as I am unable to turn my headlight off when it is running. I run with two daytime running lights plus my head light (dipped). For a WoF, I switch off my daytime running lights, they are fitted to an on/off switch. I'm breaking the law, but the Police have so far chosen not to enforce it in the name of conspicuity. I'm still lobbying to get the Rule changed for class L vehicles to allow a dipped headlight to be used in conjunction with daytime running lights (but only for class L vehicles).

Cheers...

Hinny

6th August 2014, 20:27

I have Narva DRLs fitted. Run without headlight on during daytime - no tail light going either so a lot safer in that following traffic is able to see when I brake more easily.
When the headlight is turned on the DRLs automatically dim, as per the legal requirement. I guess they then become position indicating lights.
On a trip to the Cold Kiwi I blew a fuse for the headlight just outside Taumarunui and ran the rest of the way with the light from the DRLs at full strength. No problem.

rastuscat

6th August 2014, 20:31

He's been here too long. The poor bastard is now trusting someone on the Internets :msn-wink:

I think the trick is, we have lawyers playing with all the legislation in court trying to micro define sections. The problem is, there is a shitload of law, one law defers to another, another has precedence etc. Knowing all that? Sheesh, I've only read the motorcycle lighting over various releases, and it's multiple pages with a lot of ins and outs... The annoying part... I've tried speaking to NZTA to raise an issue with the VIRM as it stands, got some woman who insisted I couldn't speak to anyone higher (she was the manager or whatever), yet couldn't understand my question and kept telling me to read the VIRM...

Thing is, people join the Popo as a job, and bring their experience with them.

There is bugger all education within the job as to the very technical nature of the rules. Like, nil. What someone knows is what they care to research themselves.

Don't expect every Popo to be an expert on everything. There's too much technical stuff in traffic work for anyone to know everything.

If you need someone who knows everything, check with Akzle.

FJRider

6th August 2014, 20:43

As I understand it, the law basically says if the officer has 'reasonable grounds' to suspect that it 'may be illegal' they can green/pink sticker you and you have zero recourse. None. Zip. Zilch. Oh, the officer was wrong? Tough bikkies.
HTH

Or ... they have it towed at YOUR expense ... there are two sides to their discretion.

One side you don't like ... or the side you really really hate ...

If you make the right choices ... their discretion wont be needed.

AllanB

6th August 2014, 21:13

NordieBoy

7th August 2014, 19:27

Mine don't even get turned off for wof's.

MrKiwi

11th August 2014, 08:11

Mine don't even get turned off for wof's.

In reality, neither do mine, but that they can be turned off helps the bike pass the WoF.

f2dz

11th August 2014, 12:27

Spied a bike last weekend. headlight, small day lights (LEDs) either side. Bloody obvious. Might get some. Flick a switch in for WOF's. Po po won't care as long as I'm not being a knob. Indeed they should welcome them - see me coming.

Fastbikegear sell them. Ed does not.

I dunno about Chch, but I had the idea to do the same in jafa land and was told this was not warrantable.

DRLs have to turn off automatically when the headlight comes on. They can't be controlled by a switch.

MrKiwi

11th August 2014, 22:17

chasio

12th August 2014, 09:52

I dunno about Chch, but I had the idea to do the same in jafa land and was told this was not warrantable.

DRLs have to turn off automatically when the headlight comes on. They can't be controlled by a switch.

In which case you can call them driving lamps. The only thing with driving lamps is that the switch has to be illuminated (or that may be interpreted as having an indicator light, perhaps). I got an illuminated switch from Jaycar and wired my LED's through that.

f2dz

12th August 2014, 12:26

I have daytime running lights fitted to my bike, have been on for 3 years now. Never failed a wof...

Not surprising, especially if you get it checked at a workshop rather than the VTNZ, who aren't that lenient.

In which case you can call them driving lamps. The only thing with driving lamps is that the switch has to be illuminated (or that may be interpreted as having an indicator light, perhaps). I got an illuminated switch from Jaycar and wired my LED's through that.

I'm not sure what the distinction is between daytime and driving lamps. All I know is that I had two small LEDs mounted to the front of my old bike that turned on when I started it, along with my headlight, neither of which I could turn off, and I was told to remove them by a VTNZ testing officer for the aforementioned reason.

Gremlin

12th August 2014, 15:00

In which case you can call them driving lamps.
There is no category called driving lamps... http://vehicleinspection.nzta.govt.nz/virms/in-service-wof-and-cof/motorcycles/lighting

R650R

12th August 2014, 17:14

Posted a link earlier but there are three options on what to call your lights or what VTNZ will decide they are...

1) Daytime running lamps - must not be on when headlamp is on... Light must a bright source/noticeable but not illuminate the road surface (so pretty much only the specifically designed led strip light DRMs)

2) Position indicator lamps - to show how wide your vehicle is, can be on all the time but must be a fairly weak light, something more of a decorative level.

3) Fog lamps - Must be switchable and only used in poor visibility, must be mounted below main beam level, there is a specific light pattern requirement too.

Really it seems fit what you may but just be carefull where you get wOF'd and don't attract attention of fail the roadside attitude test and you should be right...

NordieBoy

12th August 2014, 18:27

Mine are #2, out on the hand guards, 3w, 15mm dia or so.

chasio

12th August 2014, 20:30

There is no category called driving lamps... http://vehicleinspection.nzta.govt.nz/virms/in-service-wof-and-cof/motorcycles/lighting

Which just goes to show there are lies, damned lies and TradeMe listings.

Posted a link earlier but there are three options on what to call your lights or what VTNZ will decide they are...

1) Daytime running lamps - must not be on when headlamp is on... Light must a bright source/noticeable but not illuminate the road surface (so pretty much only the specifically designed led strip light DRMs)

2) Position indicator lamps - to show how wide your vehicle is, can be on all the time but must be a fairly weak light, something more of a decorative level.

3) Fog lamps - Must be switchable and only used in poor visibility, must be mounted below main beam level, there is a specific light pattern requirement too.

Really it seems fit what you may but just be carefull where you get wOF'd and don't attract attention of fail the roadside attitude test and you should be right...

In that case I must have fitted fog lamps, with a fog lamp warning device. The beam pattern wasn't tested, but they are spots and I angle them down so they don't dazzle. However, the beam is not terribly wide.

But as noted many times above, if you're not being an obvious PITA no-one seems to care. If I had a WOF station complaining about them, I'd just find someone sensible instead.

That said, all power to MrKiwi :)

Big Dog

13th August 2014, 13:09

There is no category called driving lamps... http://vehicleinspection.nzta.govt.nz/virms/in-service-wof-and-cof/motorcycles/lighting

Perhaps he means http://vehicleinspection.nzta.govt.nz/virms/in-service-wof-and-cof/motorcycles/lighting/forward-facing-position-lamps?

Flip

13th August 2014, 13:23

My Road King has day running lights.

They are not fog lights. They have their own switch but turn off on high beam.

The wof wanker always makes an issue of them but they are standard and the bike is type approved so he get knotted.

chasio

13th August 2014, 14:20

Perhaps he means http://vehicleinspection.nzta.govt.nz/virms/in-service-wof-and-cof/motorcycles/lighting/forward-facing-position-lamps?

Ah but I also have another small pair of LED's fitted as forward facing position lamps, and only 1 pair is allowed.

I do note the requirement is that position lamps are of "low intensity", which is helpfully not defined. So a pair of 10W LED's is fine, then? I am sure they would say not, but without a definition of low intensity, how can we know?

Gremlin

13th August 2014, 15:46

I do note the requirement is that position lamps are of "low intensity", which is helpfully not defined. So a pair of 10W LED's is fine, then? I am sure they would say not, but without a definition of low intensity, how can we know?
I'd rather it's not defined, keeps it open to judgement, and hard for anyone to argue it's not legal. My big LED lamps consume 72W for the pair at full power. The updated model uses even more. Yep, 10W is low power in my book :yes:

BMWST?

13th August 2014, 19:43

Equivalent 5 w would be low intensity imho

NordieBoy

14th August 2014, 08:36

My little 3watters are miniscule then.
In the words of Checkpoint Plod, "Those lights are brilliant!"

BMWST?

15th August 2014, 09:39

My little 3watters are miniscule then.
In the words of Checkpoint Plod, "Those lights are brilliant!"
5 w tungsten I mean

Erelyes

15th August 2014, 11:11

Bear in mind that pretty much any LED lamp (or combo of LEDs) is going to send less than the quoted power (i.e. 3W) to the LEDs, they have resistors in 'em to 'protect' the LEDs. It's complicated...

Even with some resistors in there turning power into heat they'll still be brighter though, a 3W LED will outperform a 5W halogen easily.

I have some various wattage 'T10 wedge' (5W5 / 5w parklight) LED's that I got online, taking photos to reflect their performance is hard, but might take a vid at some stage.

rastuscat

15th August 2014, 12:31

R650R

15th August 2014, 17:28

I'd rather it's not defined, keeps it open to judgement, and hard for anyone to argue it's not legal. My big LED lamps consume 72W for the pair at full power. The updated model uses even more. Yep, 10W is low power in my book :yes:

Well they recently removed the specific candela requirement so its is nicely undefined mathmatecially speaking now. which is good because it was quite easy to exceed the sum total of 2400 lumens with three light sources. Yet you'd still be less glary than a badly loaded hilux with new lights...

R650R

15th August 2014, 17:32

Maybe I'm going to fit some, ahem, fog lights to the Cherman beast.

I may, um, forget to turn them off during the day.

I'll angle them down, so nobody can accuse me of dazzling anyone. I'm not out to piss people off, just want to be more visible.

How's that sound?

We'll with all the buttons you've got a plausible explanation. Was looking at someone elses K1200? and it looked like the switchpanel on a 747...

I've angled mine down generously, 3W mode when just want to be seen an lots of traffic, set to 10W when on a late mission, empty road and use the same as would high beams.

FJRider

15th August 2014, 20:26

How's that sound?

Pissed off people NOTICE you ... If you're NOT in their face ... they DON'T ...

chasio

15th August 2014, 21:09

I'd rather it's not defined, keeps it open to judgement, and hard for anyone to argue it's not legal. My big LED lamps consume 72W for the pair at full power. The updated model uses even more. Yep, 10W is low power in my book :yes:

72W of LED (even if the actual consumption is a wee bit less) must still make a lot of light.

I wasn't being facetious when I said it was helpfully undefined :)

chasio

15th August 2014, 21:17

Pissed off people NOTICE you ... If you're NOT in their face ... they DON'T ...

Not sure I'd agree with you on that and conspicuity is not the same as glare. I want to be conspicuous (be noticed) but I don't want to dazzle (be in their face). I'd rather run dipped beam (ideally plus non-dazzling auxiliary lights) and move around in order to be noticed than to run high beam and dazzle. YMMV.

Incidentally, according to this study (http://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstream/handle/2027.42/49380/UMTRI-98-30.pdf?sequence=1), narrowly spaced DRL's are more effective. I would not have guessed that.

Gremlin

16th August 2014, 02:27

72W of LED (even if the actual consumption is a wee bit less) must still make a lot of light.
Yep, reckon I can light up reflective boards about 2km away. Full power is only available when I switch on high beam. Otherwise, on low beam they're individually switched and dimmable between 10-85% or something like that. I leave them on minimum as it's still quite effective.

SuperMac

16th August 2014, 04:14

Not sure I'd agree with you on that and conspicuity is not the same as glare. I want to be conspicuous (be noticed) but I don't want to dazzle (be in their face). I'd rather run dipped beam (ideally plus non-dazzling auxiliary lights) and move around in order to be noticed than to run high beam and dazzle. YMMV.

Incidentally, according to this study (http://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstream/handle/2027.42/49380/UMTRI-98-30.pdf?sequence=1), narrowly spaced DRL's are more effective. I would not have guessed that.

Worth considering how well, or not, they measured 'conspicuity' ie how bright it was compared to the light alongside. You would, surely, expect lights closer together to appear brighter? Of course, a bright(er) light is, according to theory, more likely to attract attention - so, 'yes' they could be said to have tested for one aspect of conspicuity. But . . . attention conspicuity refers to how something attracts your attention, but they were directing people to look at it.

Also, just because 'something' gets a drivers attention doesn't mean that they'll make the right [speed and distance] judgements or even realise it is a bike approaching.

FJRider

16th August 2014, 13:29

Not sure I'd agree with you on that and conspicuity is not the same as glare. I want to be conspicuous (be noticed) but I don't want to dazzle (be in their face). I'd rather run dipped beam (ideally plus non-dazzling auxiliary lights) and move around in order to be noticed than to run high beam and dazzle. YMMV.

People "Notice" perceived threats to their own safety and well being ... as any Gold Wing rider (with enough lights to put your average Kenworth B-train to shame) will testify. If your lights aren't bright enough ... that they are able to be ignored ... chances are they (and you) WILL be ... :beer:

The Red and Blue flashing lights can "Dazzle" you in the rear vision mirrors at night ... perhaps a complaint to "Officialdom" is in order ... in the interest of public safety ... and all that ... :innocent:

Big Dog

16th August 2014, 18:04

It's the million giga watt white strobes that the moto way cops use that twist my nipples right off. I swear they are are trying to incinerate the eyeballs off all motorway users in both directions.

rastuscat

16th August 2014, 19:50

It's the million giga watt white strobes that the moto way cops use that twist my nipples right off. I swear they are are trying to incinerate the eyeballs off all motorway users in both directions.

We have those on our new bikes.

The theory is that in the dark, the red and blues tend to meld into the headlight, making them less noticable. So they place those flashing strobes down on the authority engine bars to make sure folk see us.

First time I used them I had a text from some cosmonaut called Yuri asking me to turn them down. Sadly, they ain't variable.

They comply with the VIRM, but holy shit, are they bright.

Gremlin

16th August 2014, 22:31

They comply with the VIRM, but holy shit, are they bright.
Actually, I'm reasonably certain that the flashing lights are not part of the VIRM. They do exist under pieces of law (basically, that law enforcement is allowed to use certain colours for certain duties etc) but the VIRM does exclude flashing beacons (ie, same as the flashing orange I use).

The one curious part however, is still the component about not dazzling or confusing motorists. I've seen some of the motorway units in action (among the first to move to LED) and they are definitely bright and flash seriously quick. I'm all for them being visible (like to see anyone complain they didn't see them), but... there may need to be balance. Same thing for the trucks that work on the motorway... hard to see past some of them at night!

SuperMac

17th August 2014, 00:58

Actually, I'm reasonably certain that the flashing lights are not part of the VIRM. They do exist under pieces of law (basically, that law enforcement is allowed to use certain colours for certain duties etc) but the VIRM does exclude flashing beacons (ie, same as the flashing orange I use).

The one curious part however, is still the component about not dazzling or confusing motorists. I've seen some of the motorway units in action (among the first to move to LED) and they are definitely bright and flash seriously quick. I'm all for them being visible (like to see anyone complain they didn't see them), but... there may need to be balance. Same thing for the trucks that work on the motorway... hard to see past some of them at night!

Seeing past (or nearby) is a critical point for anyone working on the road near those vehicles; there's a tempation to think "I'm wearing hi-viz and I'm stood next to this conspicuous vehicle - they must be able to see me!".

GrayWolf

18th August 2014, 11:51

Ah but I also have another small pair of LED's fitted as forward facing position lamps, and only 1 pair is allowed.

I do note the requirement is that position lamps are of "low intensity", which is helpfully not defined. So a pair of 10W LED's is fine, then? I am sure they would say not, but without a definition of low intensity, how can we know?

I use a pair of the 10wt Cree spotlamps from fastbikegear..... bloody things are brighter than my dipped beam, hardly need a full beam now.... but then I am fitting a HID unit soon (because the 'projector main' is CRAP on my bike).

Big Dog

18th August 2014, 12:46

We have those on our new bikes.

The theory is that in the dark, the red and blues tend to meld into the headlight, making them less noticable. So they place those flashing strobes down on the authority engine bars to make sure folk see us.

First time I used them I had a text from some cosmonaut called Yuri asking me to turn them down. Sadly, they ain't variable.

They comply with the VIRM, but holy shit, are they bright.
On behalf of all epileptics I have a serious question for you, are you able to adjust the phase?
I am what they call a successfully medicated epileptic. Strobes between 45 and 60hz make me feel sick. To the point where a passing patrol car with pulsing LEDs or strobes makes me nearly vomit if they take too long to catch up.
Other non epileptics report similar experiences. Mostly the same people who are affected by poor refresh rates on CRT screens.

Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

R650R

18th August 2014, 17:51

They're making for some crap footage on these police reality shows too with the intense lights blowing out the highlight detail and smearing faces with solid blobs of colour, looks awful.
When they first came out I nearly ran over a highway patrolman on the Taupo waterfront in the truck.
You can't help but be a possum and stare at the new disco lights and they were all I could see. when I was about two metres away my headlights were finally close enough to make his yellow hivis brighter than the strobes...
I notice they seem to have a slightly toned down mkII version since then though...

jonnyk5614

6th February 2016, 13:37

Can you clarify please? As far as I am aware, no motorcycles have DRL fitted ex factory?

As the law states, you may not run your main headlight(s) at the same time as DRLs. One or the other and this law applies to both cars and bikes.

New R1. http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/02/05/b01eb4abb1f426bfe9725f4c34d95ad0.jpg

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Monsterbishi

6th February 2016, 21:36

Both my 1994 YZF750R and 1994 YZF600R have a DRL, they even call it as such in the owners manual.

rastuscat

9th February 2016, 12:53

The Police ST1300s have DRLs.

They are pretty weak and ineffectual, but they are OEM.

Bikemad

9th February 2016, 13:11

319401
yay or nay during the day Rastus......will i be ticketed?

Gremlin

9th February 2016, 13:16

yay or nay during the day Rastus......will i be ticketed?
Nay. http://vehicleinspection.nzta.govt.nz/virms/in-service-wof-and-cof/motorcycles/lighting/headlamps

You're changing colour, is light red or a shade of red? That would be a big no-no.

On the link, Performance, 12 (f), it would also be considered altered.

Also under notes:

Note 4

If a headlamp is fitted with a readily removable cover, other than a clear plastic cover, this must be removed for inspection of the headlamp.

Bikemad

9th February 2016, 13:28

Nay. http://vehicleinspection.nzta.govt.nz/virms/in-service-wof-and-cof/motorcycles/lighting/headlamps

You're changing colour, is light red or a shade of red? That would be a big no-no.

On the link, Performance, 12 (f), it would also be considered altered.

Also under notes:

so only clear covers allowed then?
i figured red would be a problem.......what about other colours.......grey.green?.....only on during the day......put clears on for night riding

Gremlin

9th February 2016, 14:09

so only clear covers allowed then?
i figured red would be a problem.......what about other colours.......grey.green?.....only on during the day......put clears on for night riding
If the covers are altering the white/yellow of the headlight, then I'd say you're pretty much confined to what light can be emitted in a direction, which is namely yellow/white to front and sides and yellow/red to rear, with no red on front, no white on rear (excluding lic plate light).

Blue is a no-no re cops, green lights are used for doctors/medics but mostly you're going back to just white or yellow lights facing forward... Basically it's about being able to tell what direction a vehicle is travelling. Night wise, I think I remember reading no tinted covers etc because of reducing the effectiveness of the light.

I see tinted covers during the day on cars (and some at night), but why you'd want to make your headlight less visible on a motorcycle is beyond me...

rastuscat

19th February 2016, 14:31

319401
yay or nay during the day Rastus......will i be ticketed?

Red light to the front is a bad idea, and ticketable.

As Gremlin mentioned, it's about others being able to tell which direction you are travelling at night. Often the lights are the only clue, hence the code we have.

It's a bit like nautical navigation lights, red for port, green for starboard. People tell the orientation of the vessel at night by those lights.

Daffyd

19th February 2016, 17:27

Red light to the front is a bad idea, and ticketable.

As Gremlin mentioned, it's about others being able to tell which direction you are travelling at night. Often the lights are the only clue, hence the code we have.

It's a bit like nautical navigation lights, red for port, green for starboard. People tell the orientation of the vessel at night by those lights.

Red lights on the front have been all the rage here, especially jeepneys and tricycles. They also use blue, green, orange, and even, sometimes, white, sometimes flashing. Some have even replaced their main headlights with coloured lamps.
Pain in the arse at night when you see a row of red lights coming towards you. DOTC is finally clamping down on it but as with everything else here, it's too little, too late.

russd7

19th February 2016, 21:33

Red light to the front is a bad idea, and ticketable.

As Gremlin mentioned, it's about others being able to tell which direction you are travelling at night. Often the lights are the only clue, hence the code we have..

shame that the tractors that drive on the road at night with the plowlights on are not hammered a bit harder, bloody dangerous and often blinding

Tazz

20th February 2016, 13:58

shame that the tractors that drive on the road at night with the plowlights on are not hammered a bit harder, bloody dangerous and often blinding

Yeah, but you can see them coming sweet as can't ya :laugh:

bogan

20th February 2016, 14:18

Yeah, but you can see them coming sweet as can't ya :laugh:

*going, plows generally being attached to, thus lit towards, the rear of the tractor.

and yes, cops do pull you up for that shit; doing a runner not <s>encouraged</s> noticed :eek:

AllanB

20th February 2016, 15:51

There are plenty of cars running around CHCH with blacked out headlamp covers. I wondered how it affected the light at night.

The bit about retrofitted lights must be symmetrically mounted is weird. New BMW anyone ......

Basically if it is stock you are fine - my Ducati has two LED running lights below/either side of the headlight and run with the headlight. Factory. All good.

Frodo

14th August 2018, 12:33

I fitted Stonk running lights (http://www.fastbikegear.co.nz/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=6835) to my Shiver three years ago, hoping to avoid future SMIDSY incidents. These improve visibility and the triangle pattern improves depth perception by other motorists.
All good. So far...
Yesterday I failed my warrant because of these lights. The bike shop guys were apologetic and I followed up the rules (https://vehicleinspection.nzta.govt.nz/virms/in-service-wof-and-cof/motorcycles/lighting/daytime-running-lamps)
I also looked at the rules regarding "position lamps".
In short:
- You can't have DRLs on when your headlight is on.
- Position lights can only be fitted to motorcycles wider than 1.5m

There is also the statement: "A vehicle originally manufactured with a daytime running lamp arrangement that differs from what is required or permitted in this section may retain the original daytime running lamps provided they remain fitted in their original position and perform as intended by the vehicle manufacturer."

So the bike shop was correct.
But this law is an ass.
The Motorcycle Safety Advisory Council commissioned a review of visibility (https://msac.org.nz/assets/Uploads/pdf/Visibility-Project-TRL-Report-w.pdf) and concluded:
"When considering the weight of evidence, both seem to be capable of improving conspicuity, when this is measured in terms of detection (under search and attention conspicuity conditions), and when measured in terms of a behavioural response (such as size of gap accepted in front of a given motorcycle). … In terms of lighting, although it appears that dedicated daytime lighting on motorcycles is effective in increasing conspicuity, this effect may be smaller when other vehicles have their lights on. "

The MSAC followed this up with a "validation trial" (https://msac.org.nz/our-work/visibility-project/).
They stated (in 2012 I believe) "The data analysis will be finished in early 2014, and we'll report the results to you as soon as they are available."
This information is not available on the MSAC website and I could not find it elsewhere.

I know one of the MSAC members and will follow this up.

PS I know that some of this is covered in this thread, but given the thread is 13 pages long, I thought an update might be appropriate.

biggo

14th August 2018, 19:49

While on this subject I notice the Police ST1300 around Wellington also have illegal after market DRL,s fitted.:Police::Police:

Scubbo

14th August 2018, 20:13

coudlnt you just put a switch between them and the battery or whatever so that they aren't position lamps but auxiliaries?

Jeff Sichoe

14th August 2018, 22:07

While on this subject I notice the Police ST1300 around Wellington also have illegal after market DRL,s fitted.:Police::Police:

Haha yeah I noticed the same thing, good for the goose?

AllanB

14th August 2018, 23:14

While on this subject I notice the Police ST1300 around Wellington also have illegal after market DRL,s fitted.:Police::Police:

Bet they come under a special emergency vehicle lighting sub-clause.

AllanB

14th August 2018, 23:22

- You can't have DRLs on when your headlight is on.
- Position lights can only be fitted to motorcycles wider than 1.5m

There is also the statement: "A vehicle originally manufactured with a daytime running lamp arrangement that differs from what is required or permitted in this section may retain the original daytime running lamps provided they remain fitted in their original position and perform as intended by the vehicle manufacturer."

My ducati effectively has DRL - either side of the lower part of the headlight (spiffy LED ones) they can't be switched off and run with the headlight (which is also always on).

They run exception rules in many areas - factory window tints for example, I've seen imported cars with very black windows that are factory so they pass compliance etc. Tint your clear windows to the same degree and you will fail.

nerrrd

15th August 2018, 08:17

coudlnt you just put a switch between them and the battery or whatever so that they aren't position lamps but auxiliaries?

I did that with exactly the same lights on my bike, plus my front indicators are on all the time as it’s a used Jap import. I must have gone to a more understanding (or ignorant?) bike shop for my last warrant as they didn’t say anything.

rambaldi

15th August 2018, 12:58

I did that with exactly the same lights on my bike, plus my front indicators are on all the time as it’s a used Jap import. I must have gone to a more understanding (or ignorant?) bike shop for my last warrant as they didn’t say anything.

I thought the indicator DRL thing was fine if they come like that stock.

nerrrd

15th August 2018, 14:01

I thought the indicator DRL thing was fine if they come like that stock.

Good point, but they didn't bring up the additional Stonk lights either (mounted at the base of my mirrors) and I didn't bother turning them off.

NordieBoy

15th August 2018, 21:11

BluTac some coke bottle lids (if they fit) over the DRL's for the WoF.

I've been pulled over at checkpoints and complimented on my LED's :banana:

I've also been pulled over at a checkpoint and quizzed about my seat because the cop didn't like his stock one.

Moi

20th August 2018, 14:41

I fitted Stonk running lights to my Shiver three years ago, hoping to avoid future SMIDSY incidents. These improve visibility and the triangle pattern improves depth perception by other motorists...

I did the same to my Honda for the same reason. It recently passed its WoF with no mention of the extra lights which are mounted under the engine protection guards.

Have you heard from the MSAC in response to your question?

I may be being a bit simplistic about this, but if DRLs have been fitted in order to improve a bike's visibilty then when the bike goes through a WoF rather than saying the lights don't comply the inspector should be able to assess the suitablitiy of the lights to be DRLs and, if he considers the lights to be suitable, to order the bike be checked by a certifying engineer who can then allow for the lights to remain on the bike. This could be noted on a certification plate on the bike and on the bike's online WoF records.

Surely, the MSAC could take up this with NZTA and produce a working solution that allows for bikers to retro-fit DRLs in order to enhance their visibility and safety. Perhaps this is just a bit too simplistic and I am deluded as to what the MSAC does...

PS Due to the Honda coming from the UK - not NZ new - the headlight is able to be switched off and so I could ride with just the two Stonk lights showing to the front...

leathel

21st August 2018, 12:34

I did the same to my Honda for the same reason. It recently passed its WoF with no mention of the extra lights which are mounted under the engine protection guards.

Have you heard from the MSAC in response to your question?

I may be being a bit simplistic about this, but if DRLs have been fitted in order to improve a bike's visibilty then when the bike goes through a WoF rather than saying the lights don't comply the inspector should be able to assess the suitablitiy of the lights to be DRLs and, if he considers the lights to be suitable, to order the bike be checked by a certifying engineer who can then allow for the lights to remain on the bike. This could be noted on a certification plate on the bike and on the bike's online WoF records.

Surely, the MSAC could take up this with NZTA and produce a working solution that allows for bikers to retro-fit DRLs in order to enhance their visibility and safety. Perhaps this is just a bit too simplistic and I am deluded as to what the MSAC does...

PS Due to the Honda coming from the UK - not NZ new - the headlight is able to be switched off and so I could ride with just the two Stonk lights showing to the front...

My Valkyrie is also a UK model with light switches, I was questioned about the lights being on at low beam but I said they are fog lamps set below dip beam so can run with or without headlights (will run with park lights too).....just like the lower bumper lights on cars, they are bright enough to run at night with them on with park lights so if a headlight bulb dies its not an issue :D

Being the Valk is not facing the camera they don't stand out much but my daughters little Valcan gives you a better idea to how they look in daylight

<a href='https://postimg.cc/image/d049lfs7j/' target='_blank'><img src='https://s19.postimg.cc/gwhlhfd77/23736301_552095481792983_858889462969096331_o.jpg' border='0' alt='23736301_552095481792983_858889462969096331_o '/></a>

338597

AllanB

21st August 2018, 18:39

Just goes to shop some pathetic people are in charge of writing pathetic rules. :brick:

Gremlin

22nd August 2018, 23:21

While on this subject I notice the Police ST1300 around Wellington also have illegal after market DRL,s fitted.:Police::Police:
They're not ST1300. They're ST1300P, the LEDs are fitted as factory, OEM exemption clauses mean that since the bike was manufactured with it, it complies.
Had a curious cop ask me when the first ST1300Ps started getting issued.

rastuscat

24th August 2018, 18:59

They're not ST1300. They're ST1300P, the LEDs are fitted as factory, OEM exemption clauses mean that since the bike was manufactured with it, it complies.
Had a curious cop ask me when the first ST1300Ps started getting issued.

Ironic that even a motorbike cop didn't know the rule.

This dumb rule is in the same category as the one saying no demerits for red light offences, and no demerits for seatbelt offences.

rastuscat

24th August 2018, 19:01

They're not ST1300. They're ST1300P, the LEDs are fitted as factory, OEM exemption clauses mean that since the bike was manufactured with it, it complies.
Had a curious cop ask me when the first ST1300Ps started getting issued.

When they bought the ST1300Ps they should have got VFR1200Ps, but that model belongs to Honda Europe.

leathel

25th August 2018, 12:38

I had to get a WOF for my bike and the normal locations I go had staff on holiday and away so I went the dreaded VTNZ to get a gold plated WOF...... and the bike got lots of looks but passed with those lights fitted....... they were off and they did not try them...... I did ask and they said they can be classed as fog lights but if they tried them it would only pass if the beams stay under dip beam....which while mine face down I suspect some floods up so technically would fail...if they tested them.

they noted my headlight pattern was a fail as the dip beam goes high to the right not left so they say I need to sort that.....but let it slide this time, My projects are nearly done so I will get out on the bike for a decent ride for the first time in weeks (large deck built and paving area almost done around the pizza oven)

rastuscat

26th August 2018, 17:29

They noted my headlight pattern was a fail as the dip beam goes high to the right not left so they say I need to sort that.....but let it slide this time,

That's one thing I think they should have been stronger on. Sorry to disagree.

Surprised VTNZ let that one slide.

My fog lights get left on during the day, as I'm not allowed DRLs. Stupid law.

BMWGSER

27th August 2018, 19:28

I have some cheap LED driving lights on the GS , 6 LED’s a side super bright , they make great DRL’s in the supercity , no problems getting WOF’s . No problems with the coppers they are all stuck in traffic.

AllanB

27th August 2018, 21:05

My fog lights get left on during the day, as I'm not allowed DRLs. Stupid law.

Ha - fog lights being used in the day (or non foggy situations) is now illegal.

https://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/get-your-lights-right/get-your-lights-right/

leathel

28th August 2018, 12:40

Ha - fog lights being used in the day (or non foggy situations) is now illegal.

https://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/get-your-lights-right/get-your-lights-right/

yup but the WOF man has no idea how you use them.....and they are suddenly called DRL's if taken to task in non foggy conditions...its not like they have a label on them :D

rastuscat

28th August 2018, 14:36

Ha - fog lights being used in the day (or non foggy situations) is now illegal.

https://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/get-your-lights-right/get-your-lights-right/

Exactly. The WoF guy will pass them, and most enforcement officers won't enforce the fog light law.

Job done.

Moi

28th August 2018, 16:12

A wee rant...

If the MSAC are worth paying for then they need to show their value to us bikers.

They made a huge thing about the changes to the Coromandel Loop. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against what was done on the Coro Loop, by all accounts it has improved the road. But what does annoy me is that the benefits of the improvements are enjoyed by only some bikers, the improvements are not necessarily of benefit to South Island bikers.

However, if the MSAC were really serious about improving safety for bikers throughout NZ then supporting the fitting of Daytime Running Lights [DRL] to bikes would be worthwhile. Their report - link in Frodo's post - suggests very strongly that the triangle affect is of benefit. If MSAC were serious about biker safety then MSAC should work with NZTA, and whoever else needs to be involved, to change the regulations governing DRL so that if they are retro-fitted to a bike then the DRL can be checked to make sure they comply with the regulations and that a compliance certificate can be issued for the bike and this is recorded on the WoF computer so when the bike is next checked it is apparent to the WoF man that the DRL comply.

Just how bloody difficult is it to do?

Rant over, thank you for your patience...

Frodo

28th August 2018, 16:25

I received a copy of the report from MSAC. PM me and I'll send you a copy.

An interesting and generally well conceived experimental design and report write-up. Basically looked at "conspicuousness" (when a bike could be seen) and "gap judgement" (could you squeeze a car in front of the oncoming bike). Interesting that there was significant difference in conspicuousness or gap judgement during night time conditions, but not during good visibility during the day.

While this study showed that under good lighting conditions DRLs made no difference, it also noted that conspicuity and gap judgement was much better than at night. It could be argued that during good lighting conditions, motorcycle visibility is adequate. But the important pointy is that DRLs are significantly better at night. In this respect the study appears similar to that of Gould et al (2012) (cited in the report), who looked at poor lighting conditions as well as night. The weather conditions during my own "incident" were overcast. Under poor lighting conditions, a motorcycle is less visible and the contrast of DRLs against the background will be greater. Ideally, the NZ study could also have been conducted under poor daytime lighting conditions, as well as night and day.

I conclude from a brief review of the NZ and Gould et al studies, that DRLs do provide benefits when motorcyclists most need it - during poor and night lighting conditions.

So there are two issues:
- Do DRLs make a difference? In poor lighting conditions they do.
- Should they be illegal? Well, if a truck with a huge frontal area (i.e. more visible than a bike) can get away with dozens of lights and look like a Christmas tree, then why can't I add two lights to my bike?

I will write to the Minister to get this ass law changed (fingers crossed).

biggo

28th August 2018, 19:59

I received a copy of the report from MSAC. PM me and I'll send you a copy.

So there are two issues:
- Do DRLs make a difference? In poor lighting conditions they do.
- Should they be illegal? Well, if a truck with a huge frontal area (i.e. more visible than a bike) can get away with dozens of lights and look like a Christmas tree, then why can't I add two lights to my bike?

I will write to the Minister to get this ass law changed (fingers crossed).

I think you will find that most trucks that are lit up like christmas trees dont actually comply with the rules either but they are not seen as a problem by the Police and the same can be said for sensible use or DLR,s on motorcycles.

far queue

28th August 2018, 20:20

I saw a NZ Post Postie bike the other day with headlight and DRL's on. The DRL's were mounted in each hand guard. I see a few of these bikes in my travels, but this was the 1st one I'd seen with the DRL's - maybe the others had them turned off at the time - dunno. I'll pay more attention next time I see one.

rastuscat

28th August 2018, 21:19

I've had so many dumb replies from ministers I no longer try.

FJRider

28th August 2018, 22:20

I conclude from a brief review of the NZ and Gould et al studies, that DRLs do provide benefits when motorcyclists most need it - during poor and night lighting conditions.

So there are two issues:
- Do DRLs make a difference? In poor lighting conditions they do.
- Should they be illegal? Well, if a truck with a huge frontal area (i.e. more visible than a bike) can get away with dozens of lights and look like a Christmas tree, then why can't I add two lights to my bike?

I will write to the Minister to get this ass law changed (fingers crossed).

I once witnessed a motorcycle start to pass a truck ahead of me on a night ride ... as he thought the single light approaching was another motorcycle. It wasn't ... just a car with one headlight working.

Be easy to be seen ... (and to make yourself look bigger than you are is a common trait in nature) If a few extra lights do that ... do it. Size does count (apparently) ... :laugh:

The WOF testers usual concern with lights are ... if fitted, they must work. Law enforcement concern themselves (usually) with road safety ... with strict adherence to the rules often when driver/rider attitude is noted. Officer discretion has saved me a few $$$ ...

eldog

28th August 2018, 23:04

I once witnessed a motorcycle start to pass a truck ahead of me on a night ride ... as he thought the single light approaching was another motorcycle. It wasn't ... just a car with one headlight working.

often I catch myself wondering if the single light approaching from any direction is a motorcycle, for the same reasoning given above. However, I assume it’s a truck just in case with a single headlight.

how many people, esp learners are caught out by this phenonminion?

going on a trial run of some lights to see if I can throw some light on the subject in question.

i wonder why motorcycles are restricted to 1 rather than 2 extra lights, how can we form this agic triangle (3) of lights:drool:

FJRider

28th August 2018, 23:08

... how many people, esp learners are caught out by this phenomenon?

The one I saw ... it did not end well.

ExSp33db1rd

9th September 2018, 10:47

Question: is the Headlight Main Beam warning light wired only through the "On" switch and dip switch, or actually through the bulb socket? i.e. if I'm riding during the day, with my headlight switched ON as by law, and the headlight fails, will the Main Beam warning light also go out ? If it doesn't, and the light fails and I'm stopped by the fuzz, I doubt that a response of "but you can see that I have it switched on, Hofficer" will wear, he'll claim that I tried switch it on as he approached !

I know, I'm not supposed to drive with the main beam on all the time, but that's not the point, I do occasionally flip the dip switch up to see the warning light illuminate, to be satisfied that all is well - am I fooling myself.

Strangely - this isn't a problem at night, if the headlight fails I will probably notice !

Honest Andy

9th September 2018, 10:56