Best bike for newbie with money no barrier?

[mrcamel]

Hi all

Ok so i have always wanted to own a bike but have yet to ride even one and know next to nithing about them.
Stats:
Im 174cm tall, 80kg, can drive manual cars easy and push bikes no issues.
Looking for:
Commute to central auckland from Orewa
Sporty looks

Random points:
Im worried about dropping and damaging the bike so maybe should look for something light?
Money is no issue (up to say $10k)
I have read about the Honda cbr250r and ninja 250 and read that having ABS is safer so maybe a bike with that?
Also given zero technical knowledge i read having newer fuel injection systems are easier to start and don't have to worry about a 'choke' or revving for a bit....prefer something that is v easy maintenance so maybe again a newer bike like the cbr250r??
Given i want to use it on the motorway im thinking at least 250cc?
Lastly, i know its not doing it justice and i need to go physically look but watching some online videos of the cbr250r i thought the engine sounded really lame like a scooter?!?! So want something with a decent growl but dont want a death bike either!!!

Yes of course i intend to get an intro session somewhereandwill go check some showrooms but keen to get advice on some shortlists....

Thanks!

[mossy1200]

If money was no issue idd get a ducati monster 2012 lams but thats 17k

At 10k idd pick a ninja 300 . I think new at 9700

Find a one year old one for less is a option.

2nd hand idd pick a Honda revere 650 between 3 and 4 k

[caspernz]

Start with this beauty maybe?

http://www.honda-motorcycles.co.nz/BikeModel/432/pcx150

That's once you've done your 6L of course...

[Subike]

Start with this beauty maybe?

http://www.honda-motorcycles.co.nz/BikeModel/432/pcx150

That's once you've done your 6L of course...

Agree with this completely, get your 6L and onto one of these for 6 mths, learn how to ride a bike, it has nothing in common with a car apart from the road rules.....that is if you want to stay alive with no boken bones or scars for more than a few years

[mossy1200]

Agree with this completely, get your 6L and onto one of these for 6 mths, learn how to ride a bike, it has nothing in common with a car apart from the road rules.....that is if you want to stay alive with no boken bones or scars for more than a few years

Its a scooter....

I started on a rg400f 2 smoker.
I dont think people who know the road rules gain anything by riding a scooter in the way of motorcycle handling skills.

[caspernz]

Its a scooter....

I started on a rg400f 2 smoker.
I dont think people who know the road rules gain anything by riding a scooter in the way of motorcycle handling skills.

There's merit in that as well...but someone who owns up to being mechanically inept completely...a scooter is a good starting point, even if it's a 400. Try a Burgman 400 and it's more lively than a GN250 :eek:

The mighty GN250 was my learner bike :laugh::niceone:

[Subike]

There's merit in that as well...but someone who owns up to being mechanically inept completely...a scooter is a good starting point, even if it's a 400. Try a Burgman 400 and it's more lively than a GN250 :eek:

The mighty GN250 was my learner bike :laugh::niceone:

gee you were lucky , my learner bike was a suzuki AC50.

[Jantar]

Hi all

Ok so i have always wanted to own a bike but have yet to ride even one and know next to nithing about them.
Stats:
Im 174cm tall, 80kg, can drive manual cars easy and push bikes no issues.
Looking for:
Commute to central auckland from Orewa
Sporty looks

Random points:
Im worried about dropping and damaging the bike so maybe should look for something light?
Money is no issue (up to say $10k)
I have read about the Honda cbr250r and ninja 250 and read that having ABS is safer so maybe a bike with that?
Also given zero technical knowledge i read having newer fuel injection systems are easier to start and don't have to worry about a 'choke' or revving for a bit....prefer something that is v easy maintenance so maybe again a newer bike like the cbr250r??
Given i want to use it on the motorway im thinking at least 250cc?
Lastly, i know its not doing it justice and i need to go physically look but watching some online videos of the cbr250r i thought the engine sounded really lame like a scooter?!?! So want something with a decent growl but dont want a death bike either!!!

Yes of course i intend to get an intro session somewhereandwill go check some showrooms but keen to get advice on some shortlists....

Thanks!

From your description I think you would be happiest with a CB250r. Personally, it would be my first choice for a complete learner, but it certainly ticks all your boxes.

Generally I would advise a naked bike like a GN250 or a Scorpio for the first 6 months, then by the CB250r or perhaps a GS500F.
Modern bikes don't really need FI, as modern carbs are pretty reliable. Also I wouldn't worry about ABS until you are a very profficient rider.

[caspernz]

gee you were lucky , my learner bike was a suzuki AC50.

Nope, not lucky at all. It involved a lot of work...and funnily enough the GN250 was more fun than the XZ400 that followed :facepalm:

[neels]

If your have a decent budget and want something that looks good and sounds good, without having to thrash it to get anywhere, get yourself a ducati monster 400.

[nzspokes]

Get a Busa.

[Akzle]

Start with this beauty maybe?

]http://www.honda-motorcycles.co.nz...
you be trollin...


If money was no issue idd get a ducati monster 2012 lams but thats 17k

At 10k idd pick a ninja 300 . I think new at 9700

Find a one year old one for less is a option.
+1.


Get a Busa.
*TLR thou.

[haydes55]

Try a motard like a drz400sm or Klx250 they look sporty in a weird way, a shit load lighter than most other bikes, single bangers so cheaper maintenance.

[Glowerss]

From your description I think you would be happiest with a CB250r. Personally, it would be my first choice for a complete learner, but it certainly ticks all your boxes.

Generally I would advise a naked bike like a GN250 or a Scorpio for the first 6 months, then by the CB250r or perhaps a GS500F.
Modern bikes don't really need FI, as modern carbs are pretty reliable. Also I wouldn't worry about ABS until you are a very profficient rider.

+1 on the ginny/scorpio. Buy a cheap shitty bike first, learn how to both ride it and fix it, then after you feel comfortable with either of these buy a GS500f for half the price of anything you can get new, and it'll be twice as good.

[Akzle]

Im worried about dropping and damaging the bike so maybe should look for something light?


Try a motard...a shit load lighter than most other bikes, single bangers so cheaper maintenance.

*two bangs, single cylinders. - fine bikes, sometimes fussy and explode spectacularly, not the best to do yer lernin' on.

1- "something light" has little to do with "dropping and damaging" - all bikes are "light" if you're going forward fast enough :D

what you MAY be looking for, OP, is a "naked" or "streetfighter" or "dual purpose" type bike
(although motard is def. an option, i'd not reccomend them as either first, or typical road-use bike, being that's nots whats theys were designed for)
fairings, being the expensive plastic bits that you'll break /off when you put it down...

2- ABS is no compensation for riding like a dick. i don't even approve of it in cars.
learn to ride well and it's almost redundant. (it should be a tool in a good riders kit, not technology to be relied on to save you from your own stupidity - as it has become)

3- get some technical knowledge. chokes and carbs are awesome, and (usually) fixable roadside. anything that needs a USB port and thousands-dollars technical shit to program/diagnose is not ideal, and they'll charge you heaps $$ to do it at the shop. better to buy cheaper bike with easier to fix technology and spend the remainder of your money on beer and bitches.

4- most of todays 250s, particularly the fours, are suitable for motorway speeds. with LAMS you are not limited to 250. you're not particularly big, so 250 shouldn't be a problem, though.

suggest first port of call is to sit on some bikes, see how easy it is, how they feel. then lern to ride. then ride some bikes, see how they feel.
your first bike is not your last bike, you may be better advised to do your time on a 2k$ bike, spend more $ on gear, and upgrade once you've got some saddle time.

spending 10k$ on your fist bike to lowside it through an intersection... your choice
i'd love you to find one of the Duc 659s too.

[Akzle]

racking the memory banks: mate had a CBR250RR, got boring real quick. my first bike was an 80s ninja 250 (GPZ?), so my swing goes that way.

[hellokitty]

Get a Busa.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to nzspokes again.

[mrcamel]

Hey guys thanks for all the useful feedback!

Just to be clear, definately not interested in a scooter!

With regards to naked vs fairing, given i need to use it on the motorway approx 20km each eay everyweekday, shouldnt i go with a fairing option because of the wind/rain issues with a naked?

Definately will go try some bikes out after doing an intro session and getting the learners...

The cbr seems good given a second hand one is going for around $5k on trademe?

Else if you think im going to want to tradeup pretty quick after the restricted and confidence comes, then what are the better fairing options around say $2-3k then ?

[Glowerss]

Hey guys thanks for all the useful feedback!

Just to be clear, definately not interested in a scooter!

With regards to naked vs fairing, given i need to use it on the motorway approx 20km each eay everyweekday, shouldnt i go with a fairing option because of the wind/rain issues with a naked?

Definately will go try some bikes out after doing an intro session and getting the learners...

The cbr seems good given a second hand one is going for around $5k on trademe?

Else if you think im going to want to tradeup pretty quick after the restricted and confidence comes, then what are the better fairing options around say $2-3k then ?

I use my bike everyday to go to and from work, 50-70ks round trip. Ive gone from a naked, to a half faired, to a fully faired.

If it's raining, you're going to get wet. Doesn't matter how little or how much plastic you have in front of you.:laugh: You get SLIGHTLY less wet, but with something like the CBR250 it's going to make shit fuckall difference.

I'd still pick up a 1500$ scorpio or GN250, and after 3 months when you've learned to thrash the tits off of it, then buy something for a bit more dosh.

You might drop 5k on a cbr250, and then 2 months later realize you want more pep for motorway work then the measly 22HP the CBR 250s single cylinder engine has. Who knows, you might love the little CBR, but if it was me, I'd go with something cheap as until you figure out what suits your riding style best.

[caspernz]

you be trollin...

Ah right, I forgot that was your speciality...:facepalm:

As you were :Punk:

[LankyBastard]

Get a Busa.

Wow ten points, a high five and gold star for originality. Honestly is this your best effort at being constructive? Cause it sure as shit aint funny. :tugger:

[mossy1200]

Wow ten points, a high five and gold star for originality. Honestly is this your best effort at being constructive? Cause it sure as shit aint funny. :tugger:

Spokes Busa runs on one cylinder and not even very well on that one so may be LAMS legal.

[GrayWolf]

Hi all

Ok so i have always wanted to own a bike but have yet to ride even one and know next to nithing about them.
Stats:
Im 174cm tall, 80kg, can drive manual cars easy and push bikes no issues.
Looking for:
Commute to central auckland from Orewa
Sporty looks

Random points:
Im worried about dropping and damaging the bike so maybe should look for something light?
Money is no issue (up to say $10k)
I have read about the Honda cbr250r and ninja 250 and read that having ABS is safer so maybe a bike with that?
Also given zero technical knowledge i read having newer fuel injection systems are easier to start and don't have to worry about a 'choke' or revving for a bit....prefer something that is v easy maintenance so maybe again a newer bike like the cbr250r??
Given i want to use it on the motorway im thinking at least 250cc?
Lastly, i know its not doing it justice and i need to go physically look but watching some online videos of the cbr250r i thought the engine sounded really lame like a scooter?!?! So want something with a decent growl but dont want a death bike either!!!

Yes of course i intend to get an intro session somewhereandwill go check some showrooms but keen to get advice on some shortlists....

Thanks!


From your description I think you would be happiest with a CB250r. Personally, it would be my first choice for a complete learner, but it certainly ticks all your boxes.

Generally I would advise a naked bike like a GN250 or a Scorpio for the first 6 months, then by the CB250r or perhaps a GS500F.
Modern bikes don't really need FI, as modern carbs are pretty reliable. Also I wouldn't worry about ABS until you are a very profficient rider.

Having read your post, I'd agree with Jantar on getting a GN or Scorpio for 6 months, I have ridden a CBR250 and know the GS500 well, I would disagree with the CBR as the better option, I would go for the GS500... it is an easier bike to ride power delivery wise. It has better torque not dependant on revving it to produce power, and it has a reasonably good fairing if you buy the current one on sale. Will also handle 2 up better than a 250 in reality.

[98tls]

Forget how much money you have to spend and buy a second hand trailbike,spend plenty of hours off road learning the basics,its cheap when you fall off,it doesnt hurt as much and you learn far more than wobbling about on road.No doubt not a popular option for the "i want it now" generation but you will be far better in the long run for doing it.

[98tls]

*TLR thou.

And look like your riding round with a Platypus sticking out your bum hole,wouldnt wish that on anyone.

[Glowerss]

Having read your post, I'd agree with Jantar on getting a GN or Scorpio for 6 months, I have ridden a CBR250 and know the GS500 well, I would disagree with the CBR as the better option, I would go for the GS500... it is an easier bike to ride power delivery wise. It has better torque not dependant on revving it to produce power, and it has a reasonably good fairing if you buy the current one on sale. Will also handle 2 up better than a 250 in reality.

Wrong CBR. They're talking about the new CBRs (confusing I know, nearly as bad as the bloody "ninja" moniker) Which are single cylinder fuel injected thingers. They actually produce a fair bit of torque very early in the rev range.

Strictly speaking the CBR would be a good bike to learn on, but you might find yourself tiring of it after awhile of doing of doing some serious motorway travel.

[Ocean1]

Forget how much money you have to spend and buy a second hand trailbike

Listen carefully to this dude.

I'll remind you about it when you learn your first painfull lesson on the road.

[Gremlin]

Get something naked. Not trying to be negative, but most learners drop/crash their bikes at some point. All those shiny fairings just make the lessons more expensive to learn.

[tnarg]

How about one of these-

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-477902878.htm

or

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-508178891.htm

Both LAMS bikes.

[mrcamel]

Ok so going to take heed if the advice and save the dosh for the 2nd bike and stick to a scorpio/gn250 for the first.

Have to say im quite anxiious about the comments reg WHEN i fall/drop rather then IF...lol...So yea will have to get the nice heavy gear first and find some vast public offroad places in auckland to give them a blast..any recomended public areas around aucks??

And so there are a bunch of each on trademe for around $2k...the scorpio looks a bit nicer/sportier compated to the gn250...what are the differences i should know of to decide? Any particular years of models to avoid?

[Glowerss]

Ok so going to take heed if the advice and save the dosh for the 2nd bike and stick to a scorpio/gn250 for the first.

Have to say im quite anxiious about the comments reg WHEN i fall/drop rather then IF...lol...So yea will have to get the nice heavy gear first and find some vast public offroad places in auckland to give them a blast..any recomended public areas around aucks??

And so there are a bunch of each on trademe for around $2k...the scorpio looks a bit nicer/sportier compated to the gn250...what are the differences i should know of to decide? Any particular years of models to avoid?

Scorpios have a bit more grunt to them (IMO anyway) and are just much newer. They are 4k brand new, and are cheap bikes so tend to depreciate quickly.

I had one for 3 months. The only downside to em is they fuckin leech moisture out of the air and make a willing and conscious effort to rust. So long as you CRC it liberally once or twice a month that shouldn't be a problem. Especially as we're coming up to summer. The ginny 250s will do the same shit.

The Chinese made gn250s do tend to fall apart a bit more if neglected. Moreso then the scorpio at any rate. However for the pennies you pay for em, you can beat them pretty badly for years and they'll tend to keep going. Both bikes will be largely bullet proof sort of draining em of oil and seizing the motor or something :laugh:

Basically, theres nothing in it really between the scorp and the ginny, other then you can find much newer/lower KM/better nic scorpios for the same price. Both bikes are great introductions to riding though. Can't really go wrong with either.

Get a test ride on both of em and buy whichever makes you happiest. Easy!

[mossy1200]

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/cruiser/auction-521407353.htm

Im not 100% sure why everyone is talking temp bike for 6months.
Summer will be over in 6 months time.

At 5 foot 10 and 80kg a gn250 or scorp will be learnt in a day and although they will be fine to run to work and back they wont do alot more.

[hellokitty]

Forget how much money you have to spend and buy a second hand trailbike,spend plenty of hours off road learning the basics,its cheap when you fall off,it doesnt hurt as much and you learn far more than wobbling about on road.No doubt not a popular option for the "i want it now" generation but you will be far better in the long run for doing it.


http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/cruiser/auction-521407353.htm

Im not 100% sure why everyone is talking temp bike for 6months.
Summer will be over in 6 months time.

At 5 foot 10 and 80kg a gn250 or scorp will be learnt in a day and although they will be fine to run to work and back they wont do alot more.

Get a road legal dirt bike, or a dual purpose bike. Easy to ride and fun. You are taller than me (I am 165cm) - a dirt bike will suit your height better. I outgrew my GN250 in weeks.

[Glowerss]

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/cruiser/auction-521407353.htm

Im not 100% sure why everyone is talking temp bike for 6months.
Summer will be over in 6 months time.

At 5 foot 10 and 80kg a gn250 or scorp will be learnt in a day and although they will be fine to run to work and back they wont do alot more.

Not 6 months, but for somebody who has never ridden anything before, I personally couldn't advise dropping $5,000+ on a bike that they have no idea if it suits them or not. My first bike was a Yamaha Scorpio. Paid 1700$ for it. Rode it for 3 months till I outgrew it. Sold it for .... $1800. A 120kg cheap as shit bike is going to do much more for learning and confidence then an expensive, big, heavy, very shiny cruiser for example :bleh:

Sides, what's 4 months? Learners have to be on their Ls for 6 months and their Rs for 18 months. That's two bloody years you're restricted. Like, whats the rush, man?


Get a road legal dirt bike, or a dual purpose bike. Easy to ride and fun. You are taller than me (I am 165cm) - a dirt bike will suit your height better. I outgrew my GN250 in weeks.

Or this. Just make sure to sit on one first, as some of em have pretty daunting seat heights.

[hellokitty]

Or this. Just make sure to sit on one first, as some of em have pretty daunting seat heights.

True - make sure you are comfortable swinging your leg that high to get on it! My old BMW650 was very tall, I was on tippy toes but I am quite agile and thought nothing of sticking my leg over my head to get on it! In fact this bike is on the LAMS list - would be a lovely bike to learn on, very easy to ride.

[Goblin]

Forget how much money you have to spend and buy a second hand trailbike,spend plenty of hours off road learning the basics,its cheap when you fall off,it doesnt hurt as much and you learn far more than wobbling about on road.No doubt not a popular option for the "i want it now" generation but you will be far better in the long run for doing it.

This is the best way to go for a learner bike. Off road will teach you more skills in an hour than any ginny or scorpy will in a month on road. They crash/drop well too..just pick it up and carry on.

[hellokitty]

This is the best way to go for a learner bike. Off road will teach you more skills in an hour than any ginny or scorpy will in a month on road. They crash/drop well too..just pick it up and carry on.

Is a safer way to learn - I spent a lot of time on my parent's huge lawn, learning how the bike reacts to my shifting weight, how far I could push it etc with a nice soft landing. Gravel was good too (gravel driveway not road) to get used to the bike moving underneath you. I learnt to ride before I went on the road. Then I could use my concentration on the other idiots on the road, not on trying to stay upright!

[mossy1200]

Not 6 months, but for somebody who has never ridden anything before, I personally couldn't advise dropping $5,000+ on a bike that they have no idea if it suits them or not. My first bike was a Yamaha Scorpio. Paid 1700$ for it. Rode it for 3 months till I outgrew it. Sold it for .... $1800. A 120kg cheap as shit bike is going to do much more for learning and confidence then an expensive, big, heavy, very shiny cruiser for example :bleh:

Sides, what's 4 months? Learners have to be on their Ls for 6 months and their Rs for 18 months. That's two bloody years you're restricted. Like, whats the rush, man?



Or this. Just make sure to sit on one first, as some of em have pretty daunting seat heights.



Maybe its just me because I am 6.4 and when I ride a gn250 im only comfy sitting on the rear seat. This leaves the bike very light at the front which is fine until you hit a bump leaning in a corner and risk losing the front end or riding in the wet its not ideal.

I had a xl185s first which was fine for size then a rg250f for a few weeks but it was 2 small. Rg400f within the first 6 months and still on learners.
There wasnt any fine for oversized bikes then. Just a license time extension which I never got due to never having the bike size checked by the popo back then.

I guess idd just have gone straight to a gs500f now on the lams list if I was starting out today.
I do agree with the going for a trail ride as i had already riden farm bikes before riding on the road.
Alot will depend on the rider attitude also. Young, dumb and fulla cum then perhaps slow is good.
Happy to not take risks and take your time and I wouldnt buy a little bike.

[Subike]

Happy to not take risks and take your time and I wouldnt buy a little bike.


this is an all good attitude to have before ever getting on a bike, but the twist of the wrist, the thrill of the open road, the adrenaline rush of the moment when you are young, tends to put caution to the wind, something small, gutless and slow is all you need if the above attitude is indeed there.

[mossy1200]

this is an all good attitude to have before ever getting on a bike, but the twist of the wrist, the thrill of the open road, the adrenaline rush of the moment when you are young, tends to put caution to the wind, something small, gutless and slow is all you need if the above attitude is indeed there.

Yes but alot of learner accidents will occur due to lack of respect of what they are riding.
An idiot rider will manage to fall off any bike they ride.
The dumber the rider the more likely they are to hp a ducati 649 lams bike.
Young guys with no brains love to hp things.

I think the mental state of the owner is the most likely cause of a learner rider falling off.

So the question we are asking is does mrcamel have the ability to control his actions?

[p.dath]

If money was no issue idd get a ducati monster 2012 lams but thats 17k

+1. The monster looks like like a real machine on paper.

I also like the new CBR250R.

[mrcamel]

Ok so i think i certainly would take things carefully given im a 33 yr old male...with a prev knee acl injury that im not interested in flaring up again!!

[mossy1200]

Ok so i think i certainly would take things carefully given im a 33 yr old male...with a prev knee acl injury that im not interested in flaring up again!!

So you just answered the most important question. Buy what you want and bypass a temp bike if you trust your judgement and are prepaired to take your time riding less busy roads for the first few weeks.
I never started riding thinking im likely to fall off. I just tried my hardest not to by reducing risks.
Get some good gear and a reliable bike that will hold its value as much as possible.

New bikes drop 2 k almost instantly
Bikes 2 years old have taken the first big drop in value and may drop 500-1000 per year then drop even slower if looked after and havent gone over 40tho km.

[sinfull]

Back to ya car with ya ! Obvious troll !~

[Akzle]

...
Get a test ride on both of em and buy whichever makes you happiest. Easy!
<- this

So you just answered the most important question. Buy what you want and bypass a temp bike if you trust your judgement and are prepaired to take your time riding less busy roads for the first few weeks.
I never started riding thinking im likely to fall off. I just tried my hardest not to by reducing risks.
Get some good gear and a reliable bike that will hold its value as much as possible.<- and this.

[EJK]

Money no barrier? Then get a busa.

[Chris.k]

I'm currently in the same boat.
~$10k bike budget. ~$2.5k gear budget.
A couple of friends have said that I should look at getting a cheap beat up bike for a couple of months before spending $10k on a new bike.
I can see where they're coming from but I just don't see the point in spending more money on a stutter step to the same end when I could just skip it, go straight get a new bike and take the learning REALLY slow and easy to avoid any stupid mistakes like just dropping it or forgetting the kick stand or something.
Oh well, I'm going to buy all the gear first and take my time thinking about the bike. Probably just going to go straight for the Ninja 300 but will think about it for a couple of weeks while a source the gear I want.

[jrandom]

Scorpio.

But for fuck's sake throw away the stock tyres immediately and put Metzeler Lasertecs on.

[Glowerss]

Scorpio.

But for fuck's sake throw away the stock tyres immediately and put Metzeler Lasertecs on.

+1. If you're smart you can sell the thing for what you paid for it.

Anyway, maybe I'm just a poor person or something. But I could never justify spending $10,000 on something that I know I'll be ditching in 18 months. Especially since holy fuck look at the proper bikes you can get for that amount of cash. There are so many tasty bikes out there for $10k that spending it on a ninja 300 makes me just a little bit sad. Buy a GS500 for god's sake! Half the cash and (IMO) a better bike. Plus it has the added benefit of you not looking like just another muppet on a ninja :banana:

[jrandom]

Yes! I keep forgetting that GS500s are learner bikes now. They're awesome.

Of course they are fast enough that you're somewhat more likely to die on one than on a Scorpio. There is that to consider. And you'd still want to throw away whatever tyres are on it and fit Lasertecs.

The great thing about Scorpios is that they work brilliantly as an around-town second bike. They're just such a sweet ride, particularly with decent tyres and flat handlebars. I've had one in that role for the last few years. I highly recommend it.

There's a lot to be said for a learner bike that can be kept and still used after you get a 'big' bike. I find the Scorpio / big-bike combination works really well for me.

[jrandom]

And when it comes to buying a proper bike, for $14,000 you can get a brand new 2012 KTM 690 Duke when they arrive in December. I mean, holy fuck, why would you spend ten grand on a learner bike? Smash the licence classes out and then use the money to get something truly sweet.

[Ocean1]

And when it comes to buying a proper bike, for $14,000 you can get a brand new 2012 KTM 690 Duke when they arrive in December.

Yes. Cute, eh?

One of the new KTMs I'll be having a wee experimental trundle on in the new year.

[Glowerss]

And when it comes to buying a proper bike, for $14,000 you can get a brand new 2012 KTM 690 Duke when they arrive in December. I mean, holy fuck, why would you spend ten grand on a learner bike? Smash the licence classes out and then use the money to get something truly sweet.

Isn't there a duke 300 that's LAMS approved coming out soonerish? That would beat the shit out of a ninja 300. No idea when we're getting them, however.

[Drew]

Isn't there a duke 300 that's LAMS approved coming out soonerish? That would beat the shit out of a ninja 300. No idea when we're getting them, however.
Next month I think.

Great fun for a hooligan, but not as an only bike I wouldn't think.

[Ocean1]

Isn't there a duke 300 that's LAMS approved coming out soonerish? That would beat the shit out of a ninja 300. No idea when we're getting them, however.

Dunno about a Duke. There's the KTM 300 EXC. 'Bout 100KG. Around 60hp.

[Glowerss]

Next month I think.

Great fun for a hooligan, but not as an only bike I wouldn't think.

Any reason why? Wouldn't normally think to put the words "LAMS Approved" and "hooligan bike" together (few exceptions on the list that probably shouldnt be) Can't find bugger all information about them that isn't from India. And Indians have fairly useless views on motorcycles. (Apparently the yamaha 150cc single cylinder bike puts the "pure" back in "pure performance". And the Honda 250 CBR is a super sport machine :killingme )

[Chris.k]

Can you guys show me some examples of the 'proper bikes' you can get for 10k?
And also maybe some alternative started bikes for around the 3-5k mark?
The reason I was thinking of the ninja 300 was that I thought it had a chance of holding my interest for more than just 18 months and, since they're so popular, that it would probably hold it's value relatively well.
I'm open to alternatives but spending ~5-6k on something that is 100% definitely going to just be a throwaway learner ride doesn't make much sense to me.
Open to all advice and info but I guess, at the end of the day, if it doesn't tickle my fancy, what's the point ya know?
I don't know..Kinda torn. That's why I'm reading this site ;)

[Akzle]

Apparently the yamaha 150cc single cylinder bike puts the "pure" back in "pure performance". And the Honda 250 CBR is a super sport machine

don't mock bro. this R srius factoids.

(what else can you put back together with wire nails and melted jandals, that'll carry a family of 7?)

[Akzle]

Open to all advice and info but I guess, at the end of the day, if it doesn't tickle my fancy, what's the point ya know?
I don't know..Kinda torn. That's why I'm reading this site ;)

you got it.
but you're an aucklander. the worst breed. :nono:

anyway. if you're really careful and lucky you won't put down your bike.
if you're a real motorcyclist, you will. whether you spent 2K or 20K.

find something you enjoy. and enjoy it. if 10k is your budget right now. find a bike that is <10k. if/when you get bored/drop it, make another decision at that point in time.

two wheels good. four wheels baaaaaad.

[Glowerss]

Can you guys show me some examples of the 'proper bikes' you can get for 10k?
And also maybe some alternative started bikes for around the 3-5k mark?
The reason I was thinking of the ninja 300 was that I thought it had a chance of holding my interest for more than just 18 months and, since they're so popular, that it would probably hold it's value relatively well.
I'm open to alternatives but spending ~5-6k on something that is 100% definitely going to just be a throwaway learner ride doesn't make much sense to me.
Open to all advice and info but I guess, at the end of the day, if it doesn't tickle my fancy, what's the point ya know?
I don't know..Kinda torn. That's why I'm reading this site ;)

By proper bikes we mean mean full sized bikes that you can't ride on your L n R's. Some example of fairly sensible but fun examples would be things like :
http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-469835392.htm
http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-460051965.htm
http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-471679612.htm

Anything like that which you can ride on your full will be so much better then your ninja 300 in every possible way. There is a HUGE range of choice out there for $10,000 or less. Don't fool yourself into thinking you'll keep the ninja300 forever. Some people do keep their 250s for longer then required, but that was when you could do the entire process in potentially 9 months. After 2 years, you'll want something bigger. Particularly if you want to do some sort of touring or country riding.

The 300 is also going to depreciate like a stone. It'll be 9k+ to buy new, and after 2 years of doing your L and R's (and possibly dropping it) I'd wager you'll be looking at 5-6k if you sell it on trademe. Less if you give it to a stealership. You will lose money on the 300.

Whereas something like this http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-522582665.htm will be 5.5k or 5k if you've got a silver tongue, and in 2 years you'll still be able to get 5k for it. You won't take anything near as big a hit as on the 300. It'll have more power then the 300, use less petrol, and with less eletronic wizardry to go wrong(its a 30 year old bike essentially). You won't have to go through the painful process of breaking it in the first 600 KMs while trying to learn to ride, and you wont have to spend the $$ on the expensive bunch of first services.

All of that said, if you really want the 300 mate, don't let me or anyone else talk you out of it. If that's what you want and you can afford it, fuck everyone else. Buy it! :headbang: At the end of the day it's about what you absolute love. If the 300 gives you a hardon, then go for it. You're right, no point if they don't tickle your fancy :) Just make sure you shop around a bit before dropping that sort of dosh on a bike you're going to flick off in 2 years.

[Drew]

Any reason why? Wouldn't normally think to put the words "LAMS Approved" and "hooligan bike" together (few exceptions on the list that probably shouldnt be) Can't find bugger all information about them that isn't from India. And Indians have fairly useless views on motorcycles. (Apparently the yamaha 150cc single cylinder bike puts the "pure" back in "pure performance". And the Honda 250 CBR is a super sport machine :killingme )Punchy as hell, stupid lean angles, backing it in serious, and wheelies like no tomorrow.

However, as a bike to ride to Aukland on from Wellington. Fuck that!

[jrandom]

However, as a bike to ride to Aukland on from Wellington. Fuck that!

Aye.

That's a job for a Scorpio.

[Drew]

Aye.

That's a job for a Scorpio.I nearly did that last weekend. Fuck I'm glad I didn't have to.

[jrandom]

I nearly did that last weekend. Fuck I'm glad I didn't have to.

Don't do it with the stock bars. Your tailbone will complain for a week afterwards. Flatter bars, and a Scorpio becomes an armchair.

Having to just hold a throttle wide open for hours can get old, though, I must admit. The secret is to find ways to make it interesting.

:doobey:

[Chris.k]

What about this, can they put a U on the end of this at a Suzuki service shop? ;)

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-525368593.htm

[Box of riddles]

DRZ400SM with a 440 bigbore kit.

[Road kill]

Honda VTR250,second hand cheap "after all you are going to drop it" far more pleasant to ride as a commuter than a CBR that you have to wring the guts out of just to sit on 100kph.

Scorpio if you don't mind cheap an ugly looking.

Trial bike if you want to look like an out of work student or an old fart looking for adventure and like strange handling on marginal off/on road tyres that were never designed for wet oily shitty AK city roads.

Unless your really boring your going to drop it so buy something that can take that without costing to much to fix,,,like a CB bloody R.

Don't take first bike advice from the sort of person that would buy a CB bloody R,,,their talking about themselves,,their not offering advice.

[sinfull]

.

Don't take first bike advice from the sort of person not offering advice. That's the bloody attitude !

[Coolz]

If I had sadlebags full of money and wanted a bike to learn on, I would buy a 741b army Indian.
Lams compliant
Very robust
Apppreciating asset
Go anywhere
Cooler than a kelvenator

[nzspokes]

Plus it has the added benefit of you not looking like just another muppet on a ninja :banana:

Funny you should say that, I saw a L plater on a Ninja yesterday morning going up Titirangi Rd swerving all over the road warming up his tyres. :brick:

Good laugh for the morning.

[nzspokes]

Oh, get a Busa.

[Maha]

Funny you should say that, I saw a L plater on a Ninja yesterday morning going up Titirangi Rd swerving all over the road warming up his tyres. :brick:

Good laugh for the morning.

Were you with us leaving Kaukop that day when that dude on the 250 did that, while dragging his front brake, and ended up having to pick his bike up off the road soon after?

[nzspokes]

Were you with us leaving Kaukop that day when that dude on the 250 did that, while dragging his front brake, and ended up having to pick his bike up off the road soon after?

No but i have heard of said incident.

[Tigadee]

Were you with us leaving Kaukop that day when that dude on the 250 did that, while dragging his front brake, and ended up having to pick his bike up off the road soon after?

Ouch! :facepalm:

[ducatilover]

'Zuki GS500f or N
Kawasaki GPZ500/EX500

Basically got it covered.
Why spend big money on a stupid overrated Ninja 300 or wheezy CBR250 single.

[Maha]

Ouch! :facepalm:

He had only been riding about 4 months at the time....monkey see monkey do?

[Tigadee]

He had only been riding about 4 months at the time....monkey see monkey do?

Me, do that (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/153909-I-found-one!?p=1130419588#post1130419588)? Shirley you jest... :innocent:

[Maha]

Me, do that (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/153909-I-found-one!?p=1130419588#post1130419588)? Shirley you jest... :innocent:

I saw that when posted, very very good points.
Talked of biker wasn't you was it?....I ask because, he also was not sure how to find his back to Massey ...from Kaukop :lol:

[Tigadee]

Talked of biker wasn't you was it?....I ask because, he also was not sure how to find his back to Massey ...from Kaukop :lol:

Heh! I haven't even been that far on a bike yet... :tugger:

I'm just happy pootling around town when I get the chance to, and getting to and fro work, enjoying being on two wheels... :innocent:

[Maha]

Heh! I haven't even been that far on a bike yet... :tugger:

I'm just happy pootling around town when I get the chance to, and getting to and fro work, enjoying being on two wheels... :innocent:

Come to think of it, a mate told me he saw said slalom dude fulla on a 600 (still on L plate) at nass one noight...and dropped that one also...:lol:

[@ndy]

10K for a first bike ?!? I am unashamedly jealous, my first bike was an Aprilia 50cc for 1k :lol:

[Akzle]

10K for a first bike ?!? I am unashamedly jealous, my first bike was an Aprilia 50cc for 1k :lol:

damski? is it fucked now? 80 kit.

[mrcamel]

This is the best way to go for a learner bike. Off road will teach you more skills in an hour than any ginny or scorpy will in a month on road. They crash/drop well too..just pick it up and carry on.


Thanks for all the constructive feedback guys!


before i buy the first bike i note with interest the point made that a few hours on an offroad bike will do a lot then a GN or scorpio. So i have decided that i will look around to see if there are any learner centres that offer just this once i have my L ......im thining to spend 3-4 weekends for a few hours hiring an offroad bike (once on learners) , and then buy the road bike...

And In terms of the road bike I have decided to look for a VTR250.

It is naked which you all seem to reccomend I will be glad to have got in case of any drops etc.... and is priced only at $3.5k so pretty reasonable i think?? and also is only $1k higher then the scorpios that i see on trademe with better looks and performance....

Still keen to hear if i should stay away from the VTR for any reason....and what places people know off that do offroad biking for learners.....and also if my approach isnt sound...

[mrcamel]

And I was looking at this VTR...

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-528460985.htm

[Akzle]

asides from being a honda...
just go and buy it bro. ride it home, by then, you'll be pro like everyone else round here

[Glowerss]

Nothing wrong with VTRs, they're pretty good learner bikes as well. That one comes pre crashed too! :lol: Just make sure to get somebody or something to have a look at it first!

[ducatilover]

asides from being a honda...
just go and buy it bro. ride it home, by then, you'll be pro like everyone else round here

Dick, we don't ride


The VTR are excellent bikes. Super reliable.
Early ones had no Tach, but you don't need one, it has 5 gears and a rev limiter...

[newhere]

*two bangs, single cylinders. - fine bikes, sometimes fussy and explode spectacularly, not the best to do yer lernin' on.

1- "something light" has little to do with "dropping and damaging" - all bikes are "light" if you're going forward fast enough :D

what you MAY be looking for, OP, is a "naked" or "streetfighter" or "dual purpose" type bike
(although motard is def. an option, i'd not reccomend them as either first, or typical road-use bike, being that's nots whats theys were designed for)
fairings, being the expensive plastic bits that you'll break /off when you put it down...

2- ABS is no compensation for riding like a dick. i don't even approve of it in cars.
learn to ride well and it's almost redundant. (it should be a tool in a good riders kit, not technology to be relied on to save you from your own stupidity - as it has become)

3- get some technical knowledge. chokes and carbs are awesome, and (usually) fixable roadside. anything that needs a USB port and thousands-dollars technical shit to program/diagnose is not ideal, and they'll charge you heaps $$ to do it at the shop. better to buy cheaper bike with easier to fix technology and spend the remainder of your money on beer and bitches.

4- most of todays 250s, particularly the fours, are suitable for motorway speeds. with LAMS you are not limited to 250. you're not particularly big, so 250 shouldn't be a problem, though.

suggest first port of call is to sit on some bikes, see how easy it is, how they feel. then lern to ride. then ride some bikes, see how they feel.
your first bike is not your last bike, you may be better advised to do your time on a 2k$ bike, spend more $ on gear, and upgrade once you've got some saddle time.

spending 10k$ on your fist bike to lowside it through an intersection... your choice
i'd love you to find one of the Duc 659s too.


Agree, sensible stuff, I would suggest getting your BH and learners before buying a bike, you might not want to go any further.

I expected to learn on my first bike, i think that is something to consider when buying the first bike, its a high possibly that the first bike will get dropped, not necessarily at speed, but if you are going to lay a bike down it might as well be your first one so I would suggest get a decent cheap one, less than $5k even for a pretty one. The learner bikes seem to hold their value pretty well, if looked after a little then you can get back what you pay.

If your dead keen to spend 10k ish I would recommend the honda VTR 250 - sounds bigger than a 250 and with a bit of a fairing looks bigger than it is, pretty sharp looking and it will cruise the motorway with your size just fine while being pretty economical.

[newhere]

I'm currently in the same boat.
~$10k bike budget. ~$2.5k gear budget.
A couple of friends have said that I should look at getting a cheap beat up bike for a couple of months before spending $10k on a new bike.
I can see where they're coming from but I just don't see the point in spending more money on a stutter step to the same end when I could just skip it, go straight get a new bike and take the learning REALLY slow and easy to avoid any stupid mistakes like just dropping it or forgetting the kick stand or something.
Oh well, I'm going to buy all the gear first and take my time thinking about the bike. Probably just going to go straight for the Ninja 300 but will think about it for a couple of weeks while a source the gear I want.

Funnily enough, going slow causes quite a few bike accidents....

my personal opinion is I would rather learn to ride slow on a 2K bike than a 10k bike - though I am very short so tip toe even on my very well lowered bike...:baby:

[newhere]

Were you with us leaving Kaukop that day when that dude on the 250 did that, while dragging his front brake, and ended up having to pick his bike up off the road soon after?

Me, me, me - happened right behind me, scared the fucking shit out of me, crunnnnnnccccccccchhhyyyyyyy metal sound look in mirror, bike sliding... that boy was warming his tires on extreme angles.....

[newhere]

Thanks for all the constructive feedback guys!


before i buy the first bike i note with interest the point made that a few hours on an offroad bike will do a lot then a GN or scorpio. So i have decided that i will look around to see if there are any learner centres that offer just this once i have my L ......im thining to spend 3-4 weekends for a few hours hiring an offroad bike (once on learners) , and then buy the road bike...

And In terms of the road bike I have decided to look for a VTR250.

It is naked which you all seem to reccomend I will be glad to have got in case of any drops etc.... and is priced only at $3.5k so pretty reasonable i think?? and also is only $1k higher then the scorpios that i see on trademe with better looks and performance....

Still keen to hear if i should stay away from the VTR for any reason....and what places people know off that do offroad biking for learners.....and also if my approach isnt sound...

Fuck, I should have read this thread backwards, I feel totally ripped off, you got to this conclusion without my belated recommendation! :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[Akzle]

Me, me, me - happened right behind me, scared the fucking shit out of me, crunnnnnnccccccccchhhyyyyyyy metal sound look in mirror, bike sliding... that boy was warming his tires on extreme angles.....

not as warm as he thought, huh

[The_Duke]

+1 on Honda VTR

A VT250 Spada or VT250F would be even better as they develop 40hp as opposed to 20 odd on the VTR... getting a touch long in the tooth but great little bikes.

Got my VT from Jono http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/116572-Returning-expatriate-needs-advice-for-VT250F-%28If-you-have-the-time-cheers!%29?highlight=vt250f for only $685.... 20,000 kms, 2 sets of tyres, 4 oil changes later and this bike is the best money I`ve ever spent.

[GrayWolf]

'Zuki GS500f or N
Kawasaki GPZ500/EX500

Basically got it covered.
Why spend big money on a stupid overrated Ninja 300 or wheezy CBR250 single.

Coz the CBR250 or da Nunja are da schizzzzzzz. all me mates wiv FSZRXPY250's tell me so, an thay mst be rite, thay RIDE 250's, u dunt!! :devil2:

[ducatilover]

Coz the CBR250 or da Nunja are da schizzzzzzz. all me mates wiv FSZRXPY250's tell me so, an thay mst be rite, thay RIDE 250's, u dunt!! :devil2:

Call me a dunt again bru and I'll push your shitty Kwasucky over! I could smash you on my ZXRBRFZGSXRRRRRRRRRRRRR250RRRRRRRRRRRR it goes to 19 on the thing man

[Svengaar]

Keeping the thread on track somewhat (even though the VTR conclusion has already been reached...) I'm kind of in the same boat as the OP. Thinking about getting the KTM Duke 200 though as I'm pretty damn small (65kgs 170cm).

Got my licence a few months back and have test ridden the CBR250 and the babyduke thus far. The CBR was fine but seemed to lack the excitment factor. The babyduke was a hell of a lot more fun (and looks bloody nice) although price wise it's getting up there with the Ninja300 especially if you replace the crappy stock tyres. The VTR is definitely a solid choice but thought I'd go for something a different to the usual noobbike.

Still need to test ride some more bikes before making a decision but was wondering what people think of the Duke?

[haydes55]

Keeping the thread on track somewhat (even though the VTR conclusion has already been reached...) I'm kind of in the same boat as the OP. Thinking about getting the KTM Duke 200 though as I'm pretty damn small (65kgs 170cm).

Got my licence a few months back and have test ridden the CBR250 and the babyduke thus far. The CBR was fine but seemed to lack the excitment factor. The babyduke was a hell of a lot more fun (and looks bloody nice) although price wise it's getting up there with the Ninja300 especially if you replace the crappy stock tyres. The VTR is definitely a solid choice but thought I'd go for something a different to the usual noobbike.

Still need to test ride some more bikes before making a decision but was wondering what people think of the Duke?

The Duke looks the sex. All reviews from it positive. However I wouldn't buy one at the moment because apparently they are making a bigger duke that still falls within the constraints of LAMs. Depends how long you want to wait.

[Drew]

The Duke looks the sex. All reviews from it positive. However I wouldn't buy one at the moment because apparently they are making a bigger duke that still falls within the constraints of LAMs. Depends how long you want to wait.390 Duke or some such. Bloody great hoons bike.

[nodrog]

Get something naked. Not trying to be negative, but most learners drop/crash their bikes at some point. All those shiny fairings just make the lessons more expensive to learn.


Get something naked. Not trying to be negative, but most learners drop/crash their bikes at some point. All those shiny fairings just make the lessons more expensive to learn.

I'm pretty sure engine cases and frames cost more than pieces of plastic.

BTW are you going to take all the doors and panels off your ute while you are learning to drive it?

[Subike]

I'm pretty sure engine cases and frames cost more than pieces of plastic.

BTW are you going to take all the doors and panels off your ute while you are learning to drive it?

I bet there are a few boy racer wannabees who wished they took the spoilers skirts and wings off of their lowered shit boxes before they learnt what a speed hump was for. Sorry your argument does not even come close to being relevant. As for engine cases and frames, most learner offs will be from low speed spills, most learner bikes might loose a bit of trim,. but most nakeds can be righted and ridden home minus the indicators a twisted set of bars and no foot pegs. A full faired sprot bike? A clip-on rammed into a tank, mashed in with the fairings, with no pegs or foot controls is a trailer job.

[nodrog]

I bet there are a few boy racer wannabees who wished they took the spoilers skirts and wings off of their lowered shit boxes before they learnt what a speed hump was for. Sorry your argument does not even come close to being relevant. As for engine cases and frames, most learner offs will be from low speed spills, most learner bikes might loose a bit of trim,. but most nakeds can be righted and ridden home minus the indicators a twisted set of bars and no foot pegs. A full faired sprot bike? A clip-on rammed into a tank, mashed in with the fairings, with no pegs or foot controls is a trailer job.

I see you is an expert, my apologies.

[Subike]

I see you is an expert, my apologies.

never been or wanna be an expert. You dont have to apologize for having an opinion.

[nodrog]

never been or wanna be an expert. You dont have to apologize for having an opinion.

ok, i'm sorry.

[Drew]

I see you is an expert, my apologies.


never been or wanna be an expert. You dont have to apologize for having an opinion.

Only a true expert, would be so humble.

[GrayWolf]

Only a true expert, would be so humble.

You could learn something there, Drew :laugh::laugh::laugh:

[Drew]

You could learn something there, Drew :laugh::laugh::laugh:I am a model of humility.

[nzmikey]

NA fuck the 250's ......... Be a Hero & go get a 2012 ZX10R Or the Gixxer Thou or the CBR Blade ... Why fuck around with the small bikes ... your a big lad & I am sure that you can handle it . :laugh:


:facepalm:

[Drew]

NA fuck the 250's ......... Be a Hero & go get a 2012 ZX10R Or the Gixxer Thou or the CBR Blade ... Why fuck around with the small bikes ... your a big lad & I am sure that you can handle it . :laugh:


:facepalm:Fuck that, get a Boss Hoss!

If you're going big, 350ci is about as good as motorcycling gets.

[Fast Eddie]

Fuck that, get a Boss Hoss!

If you're going big, 350ci is about as good as motorcycling gets.

not a fan of turbine engines?

http://www.redline.co.za/MTT%20Turbine%20Superbike.htm

[Fast Eddie]

I'm pretty damn small (65kgs 170cm).
you're not that small, don't be a pussy.


..most nakeds can be righted and ridden home minus the indicators a twisted set of bars and no foot pegs. A full faired sprot bike? A clip-on rammed into a tank, mashed in with the fairings, with no pegs or foot controls is a trailer job.

lol.. why can you ride a naked bike home with no foot controls but not a fully faired bike?

any smashed fairings can be ripped off and left on the side of the road easily.

a clip on rammed into the tank? if the crash was that bad im sure your big wide motoX style bars on a naked bike will be f*cked too. But at low speed the clip ons usually manage stay out of the way because they are so small and angled, many other things contact the ground first.

you'd be suprisd how well some fully faired bikes hold up in a crash.. I know I was :D

[Drew]

lol.. why can you ride a naked bike home with no foot controls but not a fully faired bike?

any smashed fairings can be ripped off and left on the side of the road easily.

a clip on rammed into the tank? if the crash was that bad im sure your big wide motoX style bars on a naked bike will be f*cked too. But at low speed the clip ons usually manage stay out of the way because they are so small and angled, many other things contact the ground first.

you'd be suprisd how well some fully faired bikes hold up in a crash.. I know I was :DI've told you before.

Don't try and educate anyone on Kiwicunts, about anything.

Everyone here knows everything, and those asking questions are doing it only for the entertainment of watching conflicting facts being presented.

[Akzle]

I've told you before.

Don't try and educate anyone on Kiwicunts, about anything.

Everyone here knows everything, and those asking questions are doing it only for the entertainment of watching conflicting facts being presented.

you're getting bitter in your old age.

[ducatilover]

lol.. why can you ride a naked bike home with no foot controls but not a fully faired bike?

any smashed fairings can be ripped off and left on the side of the road easily.

a clip on rammed into the tank? if the crash was that bad im sure your big wide motoX style bars on a naked bike will be f*cked too. But at low speed the clip ons usually manage stay out of the way because they are so small and angled, many other things contact the ground first.

you'd be suprisd how well some fully faired bikes hold up in a crash.. I know I was :D
Agree here

I have found it much better just to stay on the fucking bike anyway

[Drew]

you're getting bitter in your old age.
Who you calling old, hippy?!