LAMS logic

[mossy1200]

I dont understand why there isnt a massive attack on the lams bikes.

Remember when suzuki hit the market with rf900s at $9995.00 .
So many sold.

Why hasnt the like of Suzuki hit the market with gs500f lams for 8k

Lets say they did and had $1500 deposit and 24months interest free to match the learners period licence.
Lets say they put crash bungs on the frame front axel and swing arm as a lams addition.

Would they flood the market and create a market that trades in that bike at the suzuki dealership on a larger bike later.

It seems to me the lams bike specials are beyond the price a learner will pay.
Is 10k to much for a ninja 300 to sell in bulk.

$1500 deposit and $65 per week finance would suit alot of first time bike owners???

[Dave-]

I dont understand why there isnt a massive attack on the lams bikes.

Remember when suzuki hit the market with rf900s at $9995.00 .
So many sold.

Why hasnt the like of Suzuki hit the market with gs500f lams for 8k

Lets say they did and had $1500 deposit and 24months interest free to match the learners period licence.
Lets say they put crash bungs on the frame front axel and swing arm as a lams addition.

Would they flood the market and create a market that trades in that bike at the suzuki dealership on a larger bike later.

It seems to me the lams bike specials are beyond the price a learner will pay.
Is 10k to much for a ninja 300 to sell in bulk.

$1500 deposit and $65 per week finance would suit alot of first time bike owners???

Second hand market.

/thread

[mossy1200]

Second hand market.

/thread

2nd hand market isnt turning over new bike for suzuki nz. Its not doing alot for their bike dealerships either.
For every 2nd hand bike sold in a dealership its likely 3 are selling outside dealerships in the learners market.

[sil3nt]

Ninja 250 seems to have sold pretty well for close to 10 grand so I have little doubt they will have trouble moving the 300s.

The GS500F doesn't look as cool as the ninja 300 so kids aren't going to buy it. Stick monster energy stickers on any bike and watch it fly out the door. Sad but true.

[mossy1200]

Ninja 250 seems to have sold pretty well for close to 10 grand so I have little doubt they will have trouble moving the 300s.

The GS500F doesn't look as cool as the ninja 300 so kids aren't going to buy it. Stick monster energy stickers on any bike and watch it fly out the door. Sad but true.


True. Models are just an example but I dont think any manufacturer or NZ supplier has really gone out to attack the market in NZ yet.

[sleemanj]

Well, for a start, it's only been a few weeks since LAMs came in, so we have to give it a bit of time.

[haydes55]

Ninja 250 seems to have sold pretty well for close to 10 grand so I have little doubt they will have trouble moving the 300s.

The GS500F doesn't look as cool as the ninja 300 so kids aren't going to buy it. Stick monster energy stickers on any bike and watch it fly out the door. Sad but true.

That's why I bought my bike, covered in monster stickers. Funnily enough I was at the gym and parked my bike beside a scooter that was plastered in monster stickers, looked quite funny. I'm looking for a drz400sm at the moment, I want to turn it in to a Travis Pastrana replica. That'll make me happy in my pants.

[sil3nt]

That's why I bought my bike, covered in monster stickers. Funnily enough I was at the gym and parked my bike beside a scooter that was plastered in monster stickers, looked quite funny. I'm looking for a drz400sm at the moment, I want to turn it in to a Travis Pastrana replica. That'll make me happy in my pants.:facepalm:

[Glowerss]

True. Models are just an example but I dont think any manufacturer or NZ supplier has really gone out to attack the market in NZ yet.

I wonder if it's simply because most people (sellers and first time buyers alike) don't knows it exists. I've got a LAMS bike up for sale fairly cheap (2.5k) in fairly good nic. But because it's an odd capacity rating, no calls even in the month it's been up for sale.

Considering how most people shop on trademe first, and the CC ratings search bars are trademe are fuckin awful (seriously, why can i only search 250 500 750 ect?) dealerships would have to find a way to steer people away from automatically jumping onto trademe and searching for 250s.

It also doesn't help that theres a lot of really shit information about LAMS circulation. I've seen people on trademe with their 600 bandit/hornets or 400 GSXRs saying "I think it's LAMS approved!". Be a huge hassle for a lot of first time buys who just want something shiny that looks cool.

[mossy1200]

I wonder if it's simply because most people (sellers and first time buyers alike) don't knows it exists. I've got a LAMS bike up for sale fairly cheap (2.5k) in fairly good nic. But because it's an odd capacity rating, no calls even in the month it's been up for sale.

Considering how most people shop on trademe first, and the CC ratings search bars are trademe are fuckin awful (seriously, why can i only search 250 500 750 ect?) dealerships would have to find a way to steer people away from automatically jumping onto trademe and searching for 250s.

It also doesn't help that theres a lot of really shit information about LAMS circulation. I've seen people on trademe with their 600 bandit/hornets or 400 GSXRs saying "I think it's LAMS approved!". Be a huge hassle for a lot of first time buys who just want something shiny that looks cool.

You have the work LAMS in your auction becuase i didnt find yours searching Lams bikes.

[Glowerss]

You have the work LAMS in your auction becuase i didnt find yours searching Lams bikes.

Auction expired last night actually and I've been slack getting it back up today :laugh: But actually I didn't have LAMS in the title either. That would likely help, thanks for that sir:drinknsin

[mossy1200]

Auction expired last night actually and I've been slack getting it back up today :laugh: But actually I didn't have LAMS in the title either. That would likely help, thanks for that sir:drinknsin

Doesnt need be in title just in the text somewhere.
i just looked at LAMS as search word in price order and didnt see any Auck bikes around 2500 price so assumed you didnt have any mention of it.
LAMS in title would help but I dont think you can change title name even when relisting without paying for a new auction.
You can add a subtitle but I think they want $5 for that. Forkin Tardme.

[mossy1200]

Mossy LAMS pick of the week

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-520986789.htm

I think they look every bit as good as a ninja 300 but that may be because im old.
What do the younger KB members think of them?

[FJRider]

True. Models are just an example but I dont think any manufacturer or NZ supplier has really gone out to attack the market in NZ yet.

There aren't the number of learner new bike buyers in NZ ... to justify a special model run.

[Ocean1]

What do the younger KB members think of them?

It's shit.

It's all covered in plastic, they've hidden the kickstart somewhere, there's no sign of a decompressor and it's got no advance adjuster.

[mossy1200]

It's shit.

It's all covered in plastic, they've hidden the kickstart somewhere, there's no sign of a decompressor and it's got no advance adjuster.

And lacking in Monster energy stickers?

[sleemanj]

What do the younger KB members think of them?

That it's too expensive for a second hand learners bike.

[Ocean1]

That it's too expensive for a second hand learners bike.

The sister in law's one sold first day at $5500, she's had to take the phone off the hook.

[FJRider]

Mossy LAMS pick of the week

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-520986789.htm

I think they look every bit as good as a ninja 300 but that may be because im old.
What do the younger KB members think of them?

My pick is this one ...

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-525476241.htm

This one would be well suitable for the altitude impaired (short) cruiser riders ...

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/classic-vintage/auction-518020879.htm

[mossy1200]

That it's too expensive for a second hand learners bike.

Cheaper than a evoIII

[mossy1200]

My pick is this one ...

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-525476241.htm

This one would be well suitable for the altitude impaired (short) cruiser riders ...

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/classic-vintage/auction-518020879.htm

Yes. So there is options 2nd hand but it doesnt look like any supplier is making a effort to sell bulk numbers of new bikes at good prices to capture the market and give their dealers a trade back option when those riders get their full license.

Lets say suzuki sells gs500fs at good price with special interest rates and dominates the new lams market. Those riders will have bikes worth 2/3 value when payed off to use as deposit or part payment on future bikes. If half return to same shop and get good trade in value then its protecting the shops and suzukis future. Is it fair to assume if the shop looked after them during the 2 years they would be biased to buying the next bike there also?

[GrayWolf]

It's shit.

It's all covered in plastic, they've hidden the kickstart somewhere, there's no sign of a decompressor and it's got no advance adjuster.

You forgot THE most important bit,, no electrics by Joe Lucas (THE prince of darkness):msn-wink:

[GrayWolf]

That it's too expensive for a second hand learners bike.

The GS500 has been around for some time, it's reliable and I would say one of, if not THE best option overall for LAMs, now if Suzook get their shit together!

[FJRider]

If half return to same shop and get good trade in value then its protecting the shops and suzukis future. Is it fair to assume if the shop looked after them during the 2 years they would be biased to buying the next bike there also?

The average punter would try to sell privately .... to avoid losing the dealers cut of the sale.

Dealer loyalty goes both ways ....

[mossy1200]

The GS500 has been around for some time, it's reliable and I would say one of, if not THE best option overall for LAMs, now if Suzook get their shit together!

Yes
Im saying dont design a new bike. Take what you have. Make it a profit but not to expensive. Load on a ogy nob extra kit and free helmet.
Run a low or no interest loan that matches a licence period in time and chuck in some advertising.

Is this going to sell bikes. I think yes it will.

[sleemanj]

My pick is this one ...

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-525476241.htm


At 48 thou k's, the thought of checking/adjusting 16 bucket-shim valves - which on the ZZR mean removing the cams to put in any new shims, and the issues that the ZZR has with 2nd gear going bad (not sure if it applies to the 400), and the fact that it seems to have had a bit of a quick tart-up with oil, filter, chain and sprocket, and the fact that it's green like kermit...

[Subike]

I think Mossy is on to sumthing here.
I bought a new small bike for 3 reasons,12mth wof
Im the only one who has thrashed it
warrentee of a new bike over the unseen things not disclosed by previous owner.
@$4460.00 inc onc, I considered it a good buy.
Ok, I expect to loose 50% of its value by the time Im ready to sell it, well aware of that, about $2k
but, have not had to repair anything yet, still on OMS tires (10k) and it goes everyday without fail.
I could have bought a second hand bike for around the same price, one of the more favored learners bikes,
And I also could have spent the same 2K I will loose on in depreciation for repairs tires and issues that were not first seen.
So to be able to buy a new bike on low deposit, as described by Mossey would have been an option I would have taken if it had been available
And a GS550 would be a very good buy, with the trade back option included.

[GrayWolf]

At 48 thou k's, the thought of checking/adjusting 16 bucket-shim valves - which on the ZZR mean removing the cams to put in any new shims, and the issues that the ZZR has with 2nd gear going bad (not sure if it applies to the 400), and the fact that it seems to have had a bit of a quick tart-up with oil, filter, chain and sprocket, and the fact that it's green like kermit...

really this is a 'bum steer' bit of information sleemanj, Yes ZZR's and historically FJ, XS 11/1200's have a similar 'problem', just like the ZZR1100 has an 'issue' with the 3rd cylinder. Yeh an ISSUE only when the bike has been regularly abused to buggery. The 2nd gear 'issue' is usually only apparent on bikes that have been thrashed consistently through the gears. There are thousands of high K's (150,000+)of both FJ/ZZR that never had a 2nd gear problem, just like the ZZR 3rd cylinder... known as an 'issue' if you constantly wheelie/wheel stand and/or dont change the oil regular. I've got a 70k+ FJ in the garage, a 50+k ZZR,........ no farkin worries on either score!

[JafaSaffer]

http://bit.ly/T6cG16

Ninja 300 is going to be a hard bike to beat for learners. Looks the part. And under 10k.

[Subike]

So if you are not in to sports bikes
and want to just relax back and cruise quietly
not look like a race bike rider, or someone entering the isle on man
what would you buy?

[Jantar]

So if you are not in to sports bikes
and want to just relax back and cruise quietly
not look like a race bike rider, or someone entering the isle on man
what would you buy?

A DL650 Wee Strom

[Glowerss]

A DL650 Wee Strom

No longer on the LAMS list.

[Jantar]

No longer on the LAMS list.

In that case how about a DR650?

[Ocean1]

Or a KTM 525...

Hey! I just realised, I own a bike on the LAMS approved list.
A beginers scooter. Shit, not having that, it's gota go!

[Subike]

so a Yamaha XVS650 would not also be a good choice in this same range?
Does not have to go fast around corners, or climb dirt tracks.
What other Bikes are in this same arena, Hoysung 650?

[JafaSaffer]

So if you are not in to sports bikes
and want to just relax back and cruise quietly
not look like a race bike rider, or someone entering the isle on man
what would you buy?

For non sporty bikes there are some nice options..

Ducati Monster 659 (LAMS Approved) but its quite pricey for a learner at $17 500 or A better option could well be the the 2012 BMW G650 2012 - also LAMS approved and selling new for $12 700 which includes ABS brakes and heated grips.

[Richard Mc F]

Ninja 250 seems to have sold pretty well for close to 10 grand so I have little doubt they will have trouble moving the 300s.

The GS500F doesn't look as cool as the ninja 300 so kids aren't going to buy it. Stick monster energy stickers on any bike and watch it fly out the door. Sad but true.

That Ninja name,I sell hondas, having a pint at yer local there wuz thisn new rider on a green ninja, costs more than tthe cbr250r honda so I asks why? " it's the ninja ting, it's cool":no:

[Ender EnZed]

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-520986789.htm

What do the younger KB members think of them?

I'd much rather have that in my driveway than the Ninja but I know it's a 500. It doesn't look as modern as the little Ninjas, but it's still just a bike with a fairing to most people.


So if you are not in to sports bikes
and want to just relax back and cruise quietly
not look like a race bike rider, or someone entering the isle on man
what would you buy?

A DR650.

If I was currently a L/R licence holder with a 250 and looking for a change I'd be pretty interested in a DRZ400SM.

[Ender EnZed]

What other Bikes are in this same arena, Hoysung 650?

Only the restricted ones. You can't just go on Trademe and buy one for any sort of sensible money to be spending on a first bike.

[Tigadee]

You have the work LAMS in your auction becuase i didnt find yours searching Lams bikes.

Ah! :psst: So if I put LAMS in the auction title for my Super Magna, that ought to sell!

Thanks! :2thumbsup

[ducatilover]

At 48 thou k's, the thought of checking/adjusting 16 bucket-shim valves - which on the ZZR mean removing the cams to put in any new shims, and the issues that the ZZR has with 2nd gear going bad (not sure if it applies to the 400), and the fact that it seems to have had a bit of a quick tart-up with oil, filter, chain and sprocket, and the fact that it's green like kermit...
So? The only reason you buy a ZZR400 is to put a 600 motor in, the only genuine bolt up 50hp upgrade I've seen.
FWIW, it's not exactly hard to do clearances on one and second gear never shat out (it's not actually the gear that fails) on the 400k, and was fixed by the 400n/600e models. My 600D has 74,000 on it and it's never jumped out of gear.


Personally, I agree with Mossy.
Bring the GS500n and GS500f back, oggy knobs etc and well under 10k (bike prices have become fucking retarded over the last few years...)
The GS would be my pick over the 300 Ninja all day, every day.
More torque, nicer motor in general.
Doesn't look stupid/tacky/like a 14 year old designed it.
Better value.
The asking price on the 300 is just stupid.
Even Hyosungdungs have rocketed in price since '04-'05! Whhhhyyyyy?

IMO Suzuki is the only decent bet to put a proper LAMS bike out there like the 500, at a reasonable price.

[ducatilover]

That Ninja name,I sell hondas, having a pint at yer local there wuz thisn new rider on a green ninja, costs more than tthe cbr250r honda so I asks why? " it's the ninja ting, it's cool":no:
Why? Because it's less shit.

[Banditbandit]

I dont understand why there isnt a massive attack on the lams bikes.

Remember when suzuki hit the market with rf900s at $9995.00 .
So many sold.

Why hasnt the like of Suzuki hit the market with gs500f lams for 8k

Lets say they did and had $1500 deposit and 24months interest free to match the learners period licence.
Lets say they put crash bungs on the frame front axel and swing arm as a lams addition.

Would they flood the market and create a market that trades in that bike at the suzuki dealership on a larger bike later.

It seems to me the lams bike specials are beyond the price a learner will pay.
Is 10k to much for a ninja 300 to sell in bulk.

$1500 deposit and $65 per week finance would suit alot of first time bike owners???


The GS500 has been around for some time, it's reliable and I would say one of, if not THE best option overall for LAMs, now if Suzook get their shit together!



Because, you bunch of ingorant dicks .. Suzuki has got it's shit together ... they didn't produce a GS500 LAMS because they made a GSX650F LAMS bike ... and it is just under 10 grand ...

Go here ...

http://www.bikepoint.com.au/reviews/2008/road/suzuki/gsx650f/suzuki-gsx650f-lams-14287

This apparently has 48 horses - compared with the standard 650 of around 75 horses ...

[ckai]

I wonder if it's simply because most people (sellers and first time buyers alike) don't knows it exists. I've got a LAMS bike up for sale fairly cheap (2.5k) in fairly good nic. But because it's an odd capacity rating, no calls even in the month it's been up for sale.

Yip. Unless you're quite a bit into the whole bike thing, i.e. read news and follow shit, you're not gonna have a clue. Had a look at a bike for mummy dearest and the sellers had no idea the rules were changing.

[Glowerss]

Because, you bunch of ingorant dicks .. Suzuki has got it's shit together ... they didn't produce a GS500 LAMS because they made a GSX650F LAMS bike ... and it is just under 10 grand ...

Go here ...

http://www.bikepoint.com.au/reviews/2008/road/suzuki/gsx650f/suzuki-gsx650f-lams-14287

This apparently has 48 horses - compared with the standard 650 of around 75 horses ...

Three points. A) That's $10,000 AUSD. Which means they'll charge $14,000 for it here (they already are. You can find em on trademe). Which is ludicrous. They'd have to sell those here for exactly the same amount to make it worthwhile, which they wont do.

B) Those things are fucking heavy. Like, bandit 1250 weight heavy. I think those things are 216kg DRY, and some 240kg ready to go. That's a fuckton of weight for somebody who has never ridden before. Especially with all that shiny plastic to tip over onto.

C) the GS500f is better then that in every concievable way. They'd be much cheaper to make/maintain, they're boatloads lighter, get way better fuel economy, look nearly as good, and actually they put out slightly more power then the gsx650f.

If suzuki was selling the GS500f for 7 or 8k new, which I can't see why they couldn't considering its been the same bike since like the mid 80s, I could see many of them selling. I remember reading somewhere that the gs500f is the most popular LAMS bike in aus by leaps and bounds. Not hard to see why.

[Morcs]

The price to pay for new.

I dont see anyone moaning about a brand new corolla costing like 30k...

GS500Fs are ghey. thats why.

Noobs should stick with 250s.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Ducati have done just that with that Monster.


Oh wait, its $17.5k.....

[Slicksta]

If suzuki had the gs out for that sort of money I might have gone for it. But as it stands they don't and i don't know if they will considering they don't import them to Australia. I would not discount the ninja 300 to much however got mine for 9.5k on the road is not to bad. Having ridden this and a gs500 i think the performance figures would not be to different.

[Oakie]

If suzuki had the gs out for that sort of money I might have gone for it. But as it stands they don't and i don't know if they will considering they don't import them to Australia. I would not discount the ninja 300 to much however got mine for 9.5k on the road is not to bad. Having ridden this and a gs500 i think the performance figures would not be to different.

Ninja 300 can be bought for US$4700 in the States. Thats about NZ $6700 I think. I make no point ... I'm just saying.
Couldn't find performance figures for it but guessing 40hp, give or take. GS500 at 52hp from memory. I'd have the GS but that's as much because I want an upright position to take the strain off my wrists. (Mum told me that wanking would make me go blind ... if she said it would prevent me riding a sports style bike I might have taken more notice of her.)

[ducatilover]

Ninja 300 can be bought for US$4700 in the States. Thats about NZ $6700 I think. I make no point ... I'm just saying.
Couldn't find performance figures for it but guessing 40hp, give or take. GS500 at 52hp from memory. I'd have the GS but that's as much because I want an upright position to take the strain off my wrists. (Mum told me that wanking would make me go blind ... if she said it would prevent me riding a sports style bike I might have taken more notice of her.)
I'll eat my gloves if it has 40hp. The ER4-n (we don't get that) has 42hp, and it's a 400.
There seems to be an obsession with low power outputs, fine on bigger engines when there's actually some torque (like the ER5/GS500 twins) I wouldn't even consider a "Ninja" now the ER5 is legal.

[Slicksta]

Ninja 300 can be bought for US$4700 in the States. Thats about NZ $6700 I think. I make no point ... I'm just saying.
Couldn't find performance figures for it but guessing 40hp, give or take. GS500 at 52hp from memory. I'd have the GS but that's as much because I want an upright position to take the strain off my wrists. (Mum told me that wanking would make me go blind ... if she said it would prevent me riding a sports style bike I might have taken more notice of her.)

The GS wet weight is around 199kgs and bhp (1997-2009 47bhp) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_GS500) that would make the power to weight 236 bhp per ton, the ninja 300 is 172 kgs and 39bhp (https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.346319052124132.81294.121259801296726&type=1) that makes the power to weight 227 bhp per ton.

Bugger all difference (sorry if my maths is shoddy)

Depends where you are in states as to price, they vary from state to state depending on taxes from $5200usd-$6500usd on the road and in europe they are around 5600 euro.

But yeah fairly light flickable revvy small bike with fuel injection and a slipper clutch count me in.

Still waiting on mine to come in to NZ :(.

[huff3r]

The GS wet weight is around 199kgs and bhp (1997-2009 47bhp) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_GS500) that would make the power to weight 236 bhp per ton, the ninja 300 is 172 kgs and 39bhp (https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.346319052124132.81294.121259801296726&type=1) that makes the power to weight 227 bhp per ton.

Bugger all difference (sorry if my maths is shoddy)

Depends where you are in states as to price, they vary from state to state depending on taxes from $5200usd-$6500usd on the road and in europe they are around 5600 euro.

But yeah fairly light flickable revvy small bike with fuel injection and a slipper clutch count me in.

Still waiting on mine to come in to NZ :(.


I'd rather have the heavy. I'm sick of being blown all over the show on my 250. Really should get my full haha.

[Slicksta]

I'd rather have the heavy. I'm sick of being blown all over the show on my 250. Really should get my full haha.

Just get fat it helps!

[ducatilover]

The GS wet weight is around 199kgs and bhp (1997-2009 47bhp) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_GS500) that would make the power to weight 236 bhp per ton, the ninja 300 is 172 kgs and 39bhp (https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.346319052124132.81294.121259801296726&type=1) that makes the power to weight 227 bhp per ton.

Bugger all difference (sorry if my maths is shoddy)

Depends where you are in states as to price, they vary from state to state depending on taxes from $5200usd-$6500usd on the road and in europe they are around 5600 euro.

But yeah fairly light flickable revvy small bike with fuel injection and a slipper clutch count me in.

Still waiting on mine to come in to NZ :(.
27NM? Is that all? That's low for a 300cc motor, my Spada was making 28nm at 8000rpm (thank you dyno) in standard form.
The GS makes 40nm, which is by my shit maths near 30% more torque.
Both are claimed 170 ish kg dry aren't they?


I just realised my GN will make moar torquez than both of them anyway. Ghey.

[Slicksta]

I'll eat my gloves if it has 40hp. The ER4-n (we don't get that) has 42hp, and it's a 400.
There seems to be an obsession with low power outputs, fine on bigger engines when there's actually some torque (like the ER5/GS500 twins) I wouldn't even consider a "Ninja" now the ER5 is legal.

Yeah 27 Nm of torque is not exactly for the ninja is not heaps my sv had 64 Nm. The GS has 40Nm but it depends on what you want in the bike.

[mossy1200]

Because, you bunch of ingorant dicks .. Suzuki has got it's shit together ... they didn't produce a GS500 LAMS because they made a GSX650F LAMS bike ... and it is just under 10 grand ...

Go here ...

http://www.bikepoint.com.au/reviews/2008/road/suzuki/gsx650f/suzuki-gsx650f-lams-14287

This apparently has 48 horses - compared with the standard 650 of around 75 horses ...

We dont live in Australia so the price is 11k plus onroad costs ex demo or 14500 2012 new . thats 3k up to 6.5k more than the thread content talks about.
They arnt offering special lams low deposit low or no interest loans or any carrots for new riders.
The thread is about the intent to hit the market hard by the suppliers, importers and distributers.

Guess your comment makes you an IGNORANT DICK as you like to call it.

[ducatilover]

Yeah 27 Nm of torque is not exactly for the ninja is not heaps my sv had 64 Nm. The GS has 40Nm but it depends on what you want in the bike.
My 5 million year old 600 makes a whopping 68nm :2thumbsup which is nothing.
Your last sentence is right.
I'd take the GS, actually, I'd take an ER-5, but whatever. The Ninja 250/300 just don't suit me, too tacky looking, not speccy enough for a new bike. To each their own eh?

[Slicksta]

27NM? Is that all? That's low for a 300cc motor, my Spada was making 28nm at 8000rpm (thank you dyno) in standard form.
The GS makes 40nm, which is by my shit maths near 30% more torque.
Both are claimed 170 ish kg dry aren't they?


I just realised my GN will make moar torquez than both of them anyway. Ghey.

No the Ninja is 172kgs wet and the GS is 199kg wet.

It all depends on how you want to ride having ridden both I prefered the ninja.

[ducatilover]

No the Ninja is 172kgs wet and the GS is 199kg wet.

It all depends on how you want to ride having ridden both I prefered the ninja.
Where did you get that number from? I recall the EX250/Ninja 250R being 170 dry.

[Slicksta]

Where did you get that number from? I recall the EX250/Ninja 250R being 170 dry.

http://www.kawasaki.co.nz/kawasaki_custom.cfm?modelcode=EX300ADF&do=specs link to dry weight oddly NZ only lists dry

http://www.kawasaki.ca/model/STREET-TOURING/1518/Ninja-300 where as canada lists wet

[mossy1200]

To make a gsx650l they needed it to be porky because the hp was to high. I think they picked the wrong bike for the job.

Its not just suzuki.

Its the lack of any distributer to get in there and say we have this market. This is our range of learner bikes and these are our special deals to attract people into buying a new bike rather than a 20 year old over priced 2nd hand one.

We (insert dealer here) have the ideal lams legal bikes at affordable prices with 24month warrenties and low or no interest finance so you dont need play lotto on a older bike that could poo itself next week.

[ducatilover]

http://www.kawasaki.co.nz/kawasaki_custom.cfm?modelcode=EX300ADF&do=specs link to dry weight oddly NZ only lists dry

http://www.kawasaki.ca/model/STREET-TOURING/1518/Ninja-300 where as canada lists wet
:2thumbsup Cool.
Well, it's a reasonably light bike.
Give me a ride on one? I'd be interested to see the difference over the 250R, which is positively uninspiring

[Slicksta]

If honda sleeved this http://www.honda-motorcycles.co.nz/BikeModel/428/nc700s and made a few non essentual cost cuts to it they should be able to get it under 10k

[ducatilover]

To make a gsx650l they needed it to be porky because the hp was to high. I think they picked the wrong bike for the job.

Its not just suzuki.

Its the lack of any distributer to get in there and say we have this market. This is our range of learner bikes and these are our special deals to attract people into buying a new bike rather than a 20 year old over priced 2nd hand one.

We (insert dealer here) have the ideal lams legal bikes at affordable prices with 24month warrenties and low or no interest finance so you dont need play lotto on a older bike that could poo itself next week.
Bring back the new GN250.
Put a set of BT45 or Sport Demons on them, sell them for 3.5k (which is more than they're worth incl. tyres)
Done, every learner sorted.

[Slicksta]

:2thumbsup Cool.
Well, it's a reasonably light bike.
Give me a ride on one? I'd be interested to see the difference over the 250R, which is positively uninspiring

Next time I am down your way you can take it for a spin!

[mossy1200]

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/cruiser/auction-517212429.htm

Theres Suzukis custom.

So add

LS650 with another 500 off that price 8250 1500 deposit 2 year warrenty 5% interest.
GSX500F for 8250 1500 deposit 2 year warrenty 5% interest
GSX650 lams 13000 3000 deposit 2 years warrenty 36months 5% interest
VL250 6700 1000 deposit 2 years warrenty 5% interest

Come on Suzuki NZ. Add a trail bike to that and hit the market with some advertising and take the market.

How about a lams TV advert and your bikes riding in their ideal areas and put in your finance deals. A few advertising billboards and some signs in the shop windows

SUZUKI WE HAVE STARTING OUT ON AN ADVENTURE ALL WRAPPED UP FOR YOU THIS SUMMER.

[Ender EnZed]

Come on Suzuki NZ. Add a trail bike to that and hit the market with some advertising and take the market.


http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/dual-purpose/auction-451916571.htm

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/dirt-bikes/auction-497945775.htm

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/dirt-bikes/auction-514824306.htm

[davereid]

If honda sleeved this http://www.honda-motorcycles.co.nz/BikeModel/428/nc700s and made a few non essentual cost cuts to it they should be able to get it under 10k

Honda NZ already make a fortune on those. They have a USA MRSP of $6995 and regularly sell under that.

And Honda NZ have already removed everything they can, including safety features - ABS is standard on these but is removed to inflate profits in NZ.

[Slicksta]

Honda NZ already make a fortune on those. They have a USA MRSP of $6995 and regularly sell under that.

And Honda NZ have already removed everything they can, including safety features - ABS is standard on these but is removed to inflate profits in NZ.

I know its unrealistic for Honda to drop
there margins but would make a good entry level bike bit heavy for me however as it stands they don't have much of an offering in this market.

[ducatilover]

I know its unrealistic for Honda to drop
there margins but would make a good entry level bike bit heavy for me however as it stands they don't have much of an offering in this market.
You could always go for a new CBR250R...


:girlfight::girlfight::girlfight:

[nerrrd]

In Honda's defence (even though I would want ABS thrown in too) I don't think we're the only market missing out. Also other similar bikes (like the er6-n or gladius 650) don't have ABS in NZ either. Seems to be becoming more of a standard feature in Australia, though, so maybe in time. Also they don't get the x version, only the s, but I digress.

The g650gs beemer looks like pretty good value (with rebates), if they've tidied up the low speed wobbles the engine on mine has it would be a great learner bike (except for the heavy to pick up, pricey to fix/service part).

[manxkiwi]

I've seen this GSXR600U in a couple of mags lately, in the LAMS list. Is it a restricted model? I'm guessing it must be? By the way, i haven't read every page of this thread, so please excuse if this has been covered.

Does anyone know anything about it? I think the current model is an L2?

[ducatilover]

I've seen this GSXR600U in a couple of mags lately, in the LAMS list. Is it a restricted model? I'm guessing it must be? By the way, i haven't read every page of this thread, so please excuse if this has been covered.

Does anyone know anything about it? I think the current model is an L2?
Never seen one here, in the ewww-kay they have 33hp. Usually an air restriction (26mm I/D washers on the intakes and fucked with injector timing and ign. timing.
I doubt we'll get it here, our market is too small and it'd be fucking expensive here too.

[GrayWolf]

Because, you bunch of ingorant dicks .. Suzuki has got it's shit together ... they didn't produce a GS500 LAMS because they made a GSX650F LAMS bike ... and it is just under 10 grand ...
.


Three points. A) That's $10,000 AUSD. Which means they'll charge $14,000 for it here (they already are. You can find em on trademe). Which is ludicrous. They'd have to sell those here for exactly the same amount to make it worthwhile, which they wont do.

B) Those things are fucking heavy. Like, bandit 1250 weight heavy. I think those things are 216kg DRY, and some 240kg ready to go. That's a fuckton of weight for somebody who has never ridden before. Especially with all that shiny plastic to tip over onto.

C) the GS500f is better then that in every concievable way. They'd be much cheaper to make/maintain, they're boatloads lighter, get way better fuel economy, look nearly as good, and actually they put out slightly more power then the gsx650f.

If suzuki was selling the GS500f for 7 or 8k new, which I can't see why they couldn't considering its been the same bike since like the mid 80s, I could see many of them selling. I remember reading somewhere that the gs500f is the most popular LAMS bike in aus by leaps and bounds. Not hard to see why.

Yup we really are the IGNORANT DICK, eh????
Thanks for the post Glowerss you saved me the job !!

[Ender EnZed]

I've seen this GSXR600U in a couple of mags lately, in the LAMS list.

It's about $18k worth of restrictors and plastic. I don't know if Suzuki NZ will sell you one but I'd hope not.

[manxkiwi]

It's about $18k worth of restrictors and plastic. I don't know if Suzuki NZ will sell you one but I'd hope not.

Thought as much. I'm not after one, just couldn't work out why it was in Kiwi mags as LAMS approved. I'm sure it still is (as was) easier to just get through your learners on a cheap wee thing. Then go for whatever you like, simple.

[Banditbandit]

The thread is about the intent to hit the market hard by the suppliers, importers and distributers.

Guess your comment makes you an IGNORANT DICK as you like to call it.

Yeah - I got that ... I was making the point that Suzuki has produced a LAMS bike - a detuned version of the 650 Bandit .. The GS500 is also on the LAMS list ... and it is NOT a detuned version ...

Other manufacturers, like Ducati (Monster Lite) have specifically targetted learners with purpose-built bikes ... and have other models which are learner approved

The complete list (to date) is here ... (and the ignorance comment was also aimed at the discussion around GS500 which should be a LAMS bike .. when it already is .. )

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/licence/getting/motorcycles/approved-motorcycles.html

I'll be there are a few people here who have got their licences and wilol be surprised and pissed off to learn they are still riding Learner Approved Motorcycles ( heh heh) ..

[Banditbandit]

To make a gsx650l they needed it to be porky because the hp was to high. I think they picked the wrong bike for the job.



Yes. I agree. Having ridden a 650 Bandit pretty much daily for 5 years I think it would be a bit on the heavy side at 48 horses ... at 75 horses it's fucking fun .. and things happen very quickly ... I would not recommend one to someone without a fair modicum of expereince.

[Glowerss]

Seems like Suzuki is way ahead of all of us. I was looking through trademe and spotted these.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/tourers/auction-528820008.htm

While they may not be a larger capacity bike, they look the fucking business. And with a parallel twin fuel injected motor at only 5.5k brand new, they're bloody spanking good value for money.

Why the fuck are Fuel Injected ninja 250s 8.5k+ brand new? :bash:

[mossy1200]

Seems like Suzuki is way ahead of all of us. I was looking through trademe and spotted these.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/tourers/auction-528820008.htm

While they may not be a larger capacity bike, they look the fucking business. And with a parallel twin fuel injected motor at only 5.5k brand new, they're bloody spanking good value for money.

Why the fuck are Fuel Injected ninja 250s 8.5k+ brand new? :bash:

Yeah if they added a gs500 at 8k to the learner list and run some advertising they could sell plenty of both bikes.

[ducatilover]

I saw the release for the Inazumanaumnuma thing a while back, all over it's a funky looking bike. Very well priced compared to the Kawaoverratedsaki 250/300 Nunjah.
The headlight is a bit fucked up looking though...

There's a nude single cyl CBR250 on the market overseas, not sure if we have them? The new CBR has a sexxxxy frame

[Glowerss]

I saw the release for the Inazumanaumnuma thing a while back, all over it's a funky looking bike. Very well priced compared to the Kawaoverratedsaki 250/300 Nunjah.
The headlight is a bit fucked up looking though...

There's a nude single cyl CBR250 on the market overseas, not sure if we have them? The new CBR has a sexxxxy frame

I just don't understand why the suzuki hardasfucktoremembername is a full 3-4k cheaper then the kwackas. It isn't as though the suzukis are lacking in the tech department. They have some really flash stuff on their 250 twins. Not sure why kawasaki continues to get away with blatantly stupid pricing.

[nerrrd]

Seems like Suzuki is way ahead of all of us. I was looking through trademe and spotted these.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/tourers/auction-528820008.htm

While they may not be a larger capacity bike, they look the fucking business. And with a parallel twin fuel injected motor at only 5.5k brand new, they're bloody spanking good value for money.

Why the fuck are Fuel Injected ninja 250s 8.5k+ brand new? :bash:

Holy moly, that is pretty good value alright. Makes the CBR single and Ninjas look waaaay overpriced. What's the catch, I wonder?

[FJRider]

Not sure why kawasaki continues to get away with blatantly stupid pricing.

Maybe it's the blatantly good build quality ... ;)

[Ender EnZed]

What's the catch, I wonder?

I think they're made in China. Still, at $3k less than the competition they look like excellent value for a new 250.

[ducatilover]

I just don't understand why the suzuki hardasfucktoremembername is a full 3-4k cheaper then the kwackas. It isn't as though the suzukis are lacking in the tech department. They have some really flash stuff on their 250 twins. Not sure why kawasaki continues to get away with blatantly stupid pricing.
Kawasaki seems to keep upping the prices on the smaller bikes, the GPZ/X/ZZR250 or whatever the fucked they called the old looking one was pretty well priced and was the EX250J/Ninja 250R thing when it came out, but they keep sneaking the price up
Same thing with the Hyoderp 250s, they were ceap when they came out and consistantly went up... or and the VTR250
The Kwaka has no advatnage in techy speccy crap, and it sure isn't worth a few grand more than the Suzuki whatthefuckdidyoucallit

Maybe it's the blatantly good build quality ... ;)

I'll blatantly deny that :bleh:

[Glowerss]

Maybe it's the blatantly good build quality ... ;)

I've got a ZZR250. The build quality doesn't seem to be any better or worse then any of the other Japanese bikes. Certainly not the better part of $4,000 better.

The suzuki dealerships, however, aren't doing themselves any favors listing them on trademe under the "tourer" category. Nobody fuckin looks for a "tourer" 250. Essentially thats the dealers going "Right, I've got 2 feet, I'll shoot that one".

Reckon they'd move a hell of a lot more out the door if they sat right in the middle price wise in the sports category of trademe in the midst of all the 4 year old 30k KM ninjas.

Slightly unrelated, but I wonder how those inazuma thingers go.They only have a 10k RPM redline vs the kwackas 13k. You have to rev the nuts off of the kwackas to get em goin. Would make for a nicer ride if they had more useable torque. Sounds like suzuki have gone that route.

[GSF]

It's about $18k worth of restrictors and plastic. I don't know if Suzuki NZ will sell you one but I'd hope not.

I saw it mentioned online and I asked the guys at Coleman's if they had heard of the GSX-R600U, they had never heard of it and thought I was a crazy man.

[ducatilover]

Would make for a nicer ride if they had more useable torque. Sounds like suzuki have gone that route.

It's a 250 twin, you have to rev fuck out of it either way

Buy a ZZR400 slam a 600 motor in it, flip it and die :2thumbsup LAMS win

[arcane12]

Just looking at the specs of the new Ninja 300, and they list it at 29 KW. The Inazuma doesn't list the power, but a google turned up 26 BHP (~19KW). And the suzuki is a heavier bike. But yeah a 250 'tourer'? Plus the stats don't really tell us how it really is on the road.

The other thing is it's no longer ~9 months to full, so any new biker, regardless of age, are looking at 2 years before they can buy a non-LAMS bike. Still starting out on a little nippy 250, and then after a few months going up to a bigger LAMS bike worked well for me.

[imdying]

If I was a learner, it'd be the SXV450 all day long... parts from AF1 and two fingers to the importers and hey ho off I go.

On that I could live without a sports bike thus avoiding the slow arse shit heaps that are every single 250 4 stroke ever made. RVF400 would be tempting mind...

[neels]

There are options appearing, suzuki seem to be doing a good trade in DR650's judging by the number of crates outside my local dealer when I went in the other day.

In terms of bang for your buck and if you don't mind sitting on a plank, if I was a learner I'd be going for a DRZ400E/SM, although at 48hp and 127kg I'm not sure how they make the list but all good can only increase the value of my 400E

[arcane12]

Well, the one that Suzuki has listed is 146kg (wet) and on wikipedia it's listed at 33.4 bhp so based on those stats it's legal. Assuming those stats are right, which is all that we can do.

To be LAMS legal it has to be 660 or under, 150kw/tonne, on the list, and not modified to increase power to weight. So by that it would seem if you modified something that has 90 kw/tonne to get 100kw/tonne out of it, it is no longer legal. :frown: I wonder if going on a diet is illegal? :whistle:

[Tigadee]

I wonder if going on a diet is illegal?

It should be, then more people would do it... :laugh:

[oneofsix]

I wonder if going on a diet is illegal? :whistle:

if it were they may then actually work :doh:

[Glowerss]

It's a shame this thing isn't made by somebody other then an unknown chinese brand

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-529206226.htm

Not too bad lookin. You'd sell heaps of those if somebody........reputable was makin it :bleh:

[arcane12]

That picture makes it look small, pity. I guess it's the angle. At 206kg I would think it's not a little bike.

A learner would have to also be sure to get the LAMS variant - the full power version is goes from 41.5KW to 52KW!

Imported by Truimph, so at least a little support?

[Ocean1]

Imported by Truimph, so at least a little support?

Indeed?

Talk to some Aprilia owners about Triumph NZ's support.

[GrayWolf]

It's a shame this thing isn't made by somebody other then an unknown chinese brand

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-529206226.htm

Not too bad lookin. You'd sell heaps of those if somebody........reputable was makin it :bleh:

I think motorcycle trader did a road test, on one a wee while ago.. I do remember reading it. I think they were pleased with it, some obviously tacky build quality was pointed out, but I seem to recall they liked the package overall.

[ducatilover]

It's a shame this thing isn't made by somebody other then an unknown chinese brand

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-529206226.htm

Not too bad lookin. You'd sell heaps of those if somebody........reputable was makin it :bleh:

The Chinese are starting to make some great looking bikes (there's countless models over there) and the best part is, they look better than the Jap ones.
Every new Jap bike is getting uglier and uglier.

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/firstrides/122_1210_cfmoto_650_nk/viewall.html
If I see one in a shop near me, I'll test ride. I'd love to see what it rides like now

[Subike]

The Chinese are starting to make some great looking bikes (there's countless models over there) and the best part is, they look better than the Jap ones.
Every new Jap bike is getting uglier and uglier.

They also seem to go as well as can be expected for what they are too, things don't seem to fall off like the rumors have it told.

[Oblivion]

That one does not look that bad. Obviously coming from China, it'll have the issue of having to prove its quality against the others in its market. But I would like to see where a bike like that gets to in a few years.

Resale on a bike like that might prove to be a bit of an issue. Just like the Daelim ones that have popped up.

[Subike]

That one does not look that bad. Obviously coming from China, it'll have the issue of having to prove its quality against the others in its market. But I would like to see where a bike like that gets to in a few years.

Resale on a bike like that might prove to be a bit of an issue. Just like the Daelim ones that have popped up.

Resale value?, Dont expect to get fuck all for mine by the time i'm finnished with it, for the price new, $4.500inc

2 - 3 years is all I expect it to live, . Enough time to pocket way some cash for another new bike.

I would treat the Chinese bikes as consumables, not long life friends like a Duke, Yammy Tumpy or Guzzi.

[mossy1200]

Resale value?, Dont expect to get fuck all for mine by the time i'm finnished with it, for the price new, $4.500inc

2 - 3 years is all I expect it to live, . Enough time to pocket way some cash for another new bike.

I would treat the Chinese bikes as consumables, not long life friends like a Duke, Yammy Tumpy or Guzzi.

Thats harsh

Idd say kept clean and looked after 80tho km. maybe a increased chance of a lemon but think of it this way. China most likely has more small bikes cruising around than you think. They most likely arnt to bad at making a 10 year consumable vehicle. Quality of chrome etc may be lower but price preportionable and silcon spray your chrome and should last long enough for you to get a 50% return on your money after a few years.
If you have transport on average thats only loses 15hundy, 2tho in 3 years your not doing that bad.

[ducatilover]

Thats harsh

Idd say kept clean and looked after 80tho km. maybe a increased chance of a lemon but think of it this way. China most likely has more small bikes cruising around than you think. They most likely arnt to bad at making a 10 year consumable vehicle. Quality of chrome etc may be lower but price preportionable and silcon spray your chrome and should last long enough for you to get a 50% return on your money after a few years.
If you have transport on average thats only loses 15hundy, 2tho in 3 years your not doing that bad.

Find some Chinese bike webistes and takle a stroll, they have more bikes available than we do
Many run engines that are "copies", often old tooling from other manufacturers (if people want to bitch about copied shit, go stare at some REPCO branded tools) and generally purchased, not nicked.

I'm dead keen to look over one of these CF motor machines.

[Ocean1]

China most likely has more small bikes cruising around than you think. They most likely arnt to bad at making a 10 year consumable vehicle.

It varies enormously from province to province, city to city. The only bikes I saw in Beijing were 250 police cruisers. Yamaha iirc. Lots more private stuff in Shanghai, including damn near every teenager on electric scooters, plugged in at a local cafe. Shanghai is wealthy, though, the vast majority of Chinese can't afford bikes, and their absence in some areas is so complete that it' almost a certainty there's local political rules in place forbiding them. Same with pushbikes now that I think about it.

Quality as we know it isn't a driving force in manufacturing in China. It's difficult to understand but price is absolutely evrything, and whereas in large factories it's cheaper to make quality parts than crap ones that's not true in small non-automates workshops. And that extra cost simply isn't viable for them, they'd lose the work. The upshot is that here's almost a default level of quality: that which will look OK and last long enough to clear the showroom floor.

I don't see their culture allowing the sort of kaizen driven transformation the Japanese made after the war.

[st00ji]

i'd give it a hoon.

the bike looks ok too