Colemans Suzuki misleading DR650 LAMS advertising - be warned

[Eddieb]

Beware any learner riders looking to by a new LAMS approved DR650 with extra's from Colemans.



"Comes with 18l fuel tank, Fat bars, bar risers, bash plate and FMF muffler ontop of a 24 month warranty, 12 month WOF, 6 month registration and a full tank of 98."

http://images.trademe.co.nz/photoserver/1/234510701_full.jpg
http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/dual-purpose/auction-517278607.htm

This bike as advertised is not LAMS approved due to the FMF muffler fitted. If you buy this and get pulled by the cops for any reason they could also nick you for riding a non-LAMS approved bike.

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/licence/getting/motorcycles/approved-motorcycles.html


The full lists of LAMS-approved and LAMS-prohibited motorcycles can be found below. The lists will be updated as new models are approved by the NZ Transport Agency.

Please note

Any motorcycle modified in a way that increases its power-to-weight ratio is no longer LAMS-compliant, regardless of whether it appears on the list.

If you are a rider on a learner or restricted motorcycle licence, it is your responsibility to ensure you are riding a LAMS-approved motorcycle, as produced by the manufacturer. If in doubt, seek confirmation from the manufacturer’s agent or dealership. If you are unsure who to contact, details for all major motorcycle importers are available on the Motor Industry Association website.

Failure to comply with the new rules may result in fines and demerit points.

[dino3310]

and if you have already purchased one of these un approved LAMS DR650's with all the mods i can give you a straight swap for a LAMS approved XR600 just to help you out:msn-wink:

[young1]

Good spotting!

[mossy1200]

Could it be that the weight of the bash plate offsets the lower muffler weight and the muffler creates more mid range power but not top end and it has been resurched and proven prior to being advertised as such.

Could a bike shop get it so wrong?

Maybe would be best ask them the questions.

[Akzle]

like fuck a cop's going to know.

[Padmei]

like fuck a cop's going to know.

Like a cops gonna give a rats arse.

[Waipukbiker]

Its like any law, its only as effective as to how well it gets policed. Anyway, as long as you are not a dumbarse on ya bike the cops arnt gunna pull you up to start with.

[bart]

Its like any law, its only as effective as to how well it gets policed. Anyway, as long as you are not a dumbarse on ya bike the cops arnt gunna pull you up to start with.

Good call.

I've got a stock DR650 exhaust sitting here doing nothing. If anyone's that worried, a cheap bottle of whiskey and its yours. :laugh:

[Eddieb]

Agreed to all of the above, but if it did happen and you got a fine and demerits for it you'd be pretty pissed given that it had been sold new by a Suzuki dealer as LAMS approved when it isn't.

While the risks may be low the advertising misrepresents what is being sold and of all people a manufacturer appointed dealer selling new bikes should be aware of this.

[mossy1200]

Ok

This is a dr650se
se for special edition
the extras are what makes it special edition

dr650se is on the list as approved.

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/licence/getting/motorcycles/approved-motorcycles.html#overview

Or does se stand for something else.
idd be telling plod se was the extras and have a copy of the list in my pocket.

[PeeJay]

Beware any learner riders looking to by a new LAMS approved DR650 with extra's from Colemans.


http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/dual-purpose/auction-517278607.htm

This bike as advertised is not LAMS approved due to the FMF muffler fitted. If you buy this and get pulled by the cops for any reason they could also nick you for riding a non-LAMS approved bike.

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/licence/getting/motorcycles/approved-motorcycles.html


18L of fuel is around 12kg
The extra weight should easily account for the imaginery gains from fitting the muffler

[Eddieb]

18L of fuel is around 12kg
The extra weight should easily account for the imaginery gains from fitting the muffler

If only it worked that way, but it doesn't.

[mossy1200]

18L of fuel is around 12kg
The extra weight should easily account for the imaginery gains from fitting the muffler


http://www.autobase.co.nz/motorbikes-for-sale/Suzuki/DR650/Motorbike---Dual-Purpose/1355444.htm

Freedoms add states lams and list extras but doesnt say that would take it out of lams list.


lams calculated on bike curb weight factory claimed with 10litres gas and 80kg rider weight

[Eddieb]

http://www.autobase.co.nz/motorbikes-for-sale/Suzuki/DR650/Motorbike---Dual-Purpose/1355444.htm

Freedoms add states lams and list extras but doesnt say that would take it out of lams list.


lams calculated on bike curb weight factory claimed with 10litres gas and 80kg rider weight

Freedoms extra's are IMS 18.5 litre Fuel tank, Sargent seat & Slipstreamer Spitfire windscreen. None of those would take the bikes out of LAMS compliance.

[bart]

18L of fuel is around 12kg
The extra weight should easily account for the imaginery gains from fitting the muffler

On this particular bike, the gains from replacing the shit stock muffler are far from imaginary.

[R650R]

Think I read somewhere any modification ends the lams status... but if its sold new with the extras it might be like the ltd edition yoshi suzukis, a loud pipe that is fitted as 'standard' equipment at first wof.
Bit like trucks, roof mounted spotlights are legit if fitted at first COF when new but you get pinged if you fit the same lights later.
As said above by others, 99% of those who buy one like that in ad won't end up getting pinged unless being silly.
The pipe lets the engine breath better but probably makes little measureable power gain on dyno by itself alone.

[mossy1200]

Freedoms extra's are IMS 18.5 litre Fuel tank, Sargent seat & Slipstreamer Spitfire windscreen. None of those would take the bikes out of LAMS compliance.

Yes but they do list the fmf as a extra that is avaliable.

If a part fitted for performance is fitted but the power to weight is still under 150/1000 is it compliant.
Its says no but it also says that you can prove that it still is acceptable.

The dealership must know that it still is. Or am I just to trusting?

Has anyone emailed Colemans to ask if its still lams with the fmf pipe?

[EJK]

Like a cops gonna give a rats arse.

But the insurance company will.

[mossy1200]

But the insurance company will.

Just like they cover bikes crashing on the track on training days.
Insurance wont be bothered by a pipe that was sold on the bike. They just increase the price of premiums to give a profit margin after calculated claims average. They never lose out in the long run and i couldnt see them chasing bike alterations on claims.

[pete-blen]

The LAMS law has no what ifs.. its pretty black & white...
Lams says No mods..
bike is no longer factroy spec...

If a LEARNER wants a moded bike... remeber we are talking learners..
I surpose one way around it for the cops is... IF they notice
any mods, is for them to require you have a dyno test done
at your exspence..

like rideing with no rego / WOF, roll the dice and see what happens..
boy racers get pulled in for checks on there moded cars... so why shouldn't
it be the same for a motor bike...

just play the game for 18 or 24 months and theres no issues..
It's not a life time...

[EJK]

Just like they cover bikes crashing on the track on training days.
Insurance wont be bothered by a pipe that was sold on the bike. They just increase the price of premiums to give a profit margin after calculated claims average. They never lose out in the long run and i couldnt see them chasing bike alterations on claims.

According to my understanding of insurance business, they will seep through any crack to make a scapegoat on the rider when it comes to making a claim.

No LAMS standard = no claim?

[Glowerss]

Yes but they do list the fmf as a extra that is avaliable.

If a part fitted for performance is fitted but the power to weight is still under 150/1000 is it compliant.
Its says no but it also says that you can prove that it still is acceptable.

The dealership must know that it still is. Or am I just to trusting?

Has anyone emailed Colemans to ask if its still lams with the fmf pipe?

As FJrider pointed out to me yesterday,

Any mods that increase power to weight ratio make it no longer LAMS complaint. This is completely and utterly irrevelent to if it pushes it outside the 150kw/tonne limit.

That's how the NZTA got away from having to figure out if the mods added HP or put out outside the limit or whatever. They'll take one look at that, go "that exhaust isn't standard" and write you a ticket if they're feeling anal. Not a damn thing you could do about it.

[mossy1200]

Ok. So they say comes with fmf pipe.
If you have a learner/restricted they may say you will need run stock pipe unless offroad.

[Night Falcon]

I friend of mine just bought a DR (Private sale) with standard pipe, lms tank, bash plate, heated grips, and has been lowered...so lots of non stock items....dose this mean the bike is not LAMS approved?

[mossy1200]

I friend of mine just bought a DR (Private sale) with standard pipe, lms tank, bash plate, heated grips, and has been lowered...so lots of non stock items....dose this mean the bike is not LAMS approved?

The issue is for performance enhancing parts installed to increase the power of the bike.

Mufflers are the obvious add on as the can be seen and heard to be not standard.

[FJRider]

I friend of mine just bought a DR (Private sale) with standard pipe, lms tank, bash plate, heated grips, and has been lowered...so lots of non stock items....dose this mean the bike is not LAMS approved?

Increasing the weight (only) reduces the power/weight ratio. Nothing written is legislation forbidding that.

[FJRider]

Think I read somewhere any modification ends the lams status... but if its sold new with the extras it might be like the ltd edition yoshi suzukis, a loud pipe that is fitted as 'standard' equipment at first wof.
Bit like trucks, roof mounted spotlights are legit if fitted at first COF when new but you get pinged if you fit the same lights later.
As said above by others, 99% of those who buy one like that in ad won't end up getting pinged unless being silly.
The pipe lets the engine breath better but probably makes little measureable power gain on dyno by itself alone.

The "Yoshi suzuki's" aren't LAM's approved either.

It matters little who modified them ... If not fitted at the time of manufacture ...

[R650R]

According to my understanding of insurance business, they will seep through any crack to make a scapegoat on the rider when it comes to making a claim.

No LAMS standard = no claim?

Its all about the terms of the contract. They will ask has the vehicle been modified or have non standard parts in most policy disclosure documents anyway. The bite in the butt comes when you answer any of those questions fraudulantly. Be the same as someone crashing daddys falcon on a restricted license after 10pm etc. An insurance friend tells me they often can see people are BS in their claims in regards to speed or how it happened but they still have to payout unless they can prove you lied about how it happened.
I'm sure the insurance co's will be onto this and just charge a higher premium/excess and woe betide anyone that fails to declare the modifications.

[Waipukbiker]

Next thing they will be bringing in low volume certification requirements for bikes as required for vehicles as in, any mods that are done must be certified before a W.O.F. can be issued.

[NordieBoy]

like fuck a cop's going to know.

A cop at a checkpoint asked me what I thought of my seat as he couldn't stand his stock one.

[carburator]

at the end of the day the cop is going to ask for for your liscence and run your rego like a good little donut muncher..
He would not have a clue that its not stock or modded..its not like he's got a set of scales and a dyno in the boot of the
patrol car..

as long as you have the right liscence and the bike is on the list or a 250 he's not going to care one bit..

[FJRider]

at the end of the day the cop is going to ask for for your liscence and run your rego like a good little donut muncher..
He would not have a clue that its not stock or modded..its not like he's got a set of scales and a dyno in the boot of the
patrol car..

as long as you have the right liscence and the bike is on the list or a 250 he's not going to care one bit..

1. If he knows there is a list.
2. If he HAS copy of the list.
3. If he knows there are new laws.
4. If he cares there are new laws.
5. If the new laws are less important than the reason he stopped you in the first place.

[Eddieb]

at the end of the day the cop is going to ask for for your liscence and run your rego like a good little donut muncher..
He would not have a clue that its not stock or modded..its not like he's got a set of scales and a dyno in the boot of the
patrol car..

as long as you have the right liscence and the bike is on the list or a 250 he's not going to care one bit..

Those FMF pipes are pretty vocal. I think it would be plainly obviously that the bike was louder than standard, especially after the packing has started to blow out.

[NordieBoy]

Those FMF pipes are pretty vocal. I think it would be plainly obviously that the bike was louder than standard, especially after the packing has started to blow out.

Quick test for an FMF with the packing blown out is, are the cops ears bleeding?

And, do you come home to find the missus is pouring a nice hot plunger coffee for you...

[FJRider]

And, do you come home to find the missus is pouring a nice hot plunger coffee for you...

At worst ... it'll give the boyfriend time to hide ... :argh:

[talbertnz]

Ofcourse the cops will know or be able to find out if the bike is on the list.

The problem is Insurance. If on a LAMS License and you end up parking your Dr650 with the FMF into the boot of a LambPorscherarri good luck getting a pay out...

[FJRider]

Ofcourse the cops will know or be able to find out if the bike is on the list.

The problem is Insurance. If on a LAMS License and you end up parking your Dr650 with the FMF into the boot of a LambPorscherarri good luck getting a pay out...

No more serious than crashing your bike while you were speeding. Riding outside the conditions of your license is not a criminal offence. Unless it is specified in your insurance policy that you can't .... you will still be covered.

[scumdog]

at the end of the day the cop is going to ask for for your liscence and run your rego like a good little donut muncher..
He would not have a clue that its not stock or modded..its not like he's got a set of scales and a dyno in the boot of the
patrol car..

as long as you have the right liscence and the bike is on the list or a 250 he's not going to care one bit..


Yeah, right-on, you're never going to bump into a cop that knows anything about LAMS, modified motorbikes or anything like that eh...

"Do you feel lucky punk, do you?"

[mossy1200]

I think its cool that everyone that has a full licence is vocal about the outcome of a modified lams bike.

If you bought this bike the advice will be only use the pipe offroad or if you have a full licence.
Shop will give the bike to new owner with stock pipe on it if not on a full licence.
You will be handed the fmf pipe as a extra and what you do after with it isnt the shops problem.

[FJRider]

I think its cool that everyone that has a full licence is vocal about the outcome of a modified lams bike.

If you bought this bike the advice will be only use the pipe offroad or if you have a full licence.
Shop will give the bike to new owner with stock pipe on it if not on a full licence.
You will be handed the fmf pipe as a extra and what you do after with it isnt the shops problem.

It would depend on the legal advice given to the shop ... is the fmf exhaust a "modification" or "accessory" ... ????

If the fitting of that pipe is for reasons of longevity ... not in the search of more horsepower ... it may be deemed legal.

[mossy1200]

It would depend on the legal advice given to the shop ... is the fmf exhaust a "modification" or "accessory" ... ????

If the fitting of that pipe is for reasons of longevity ... not in the search of more horsepower ... it may be deemed legal.

Thats just opinions and if you get a ticket you would need defend yourself in court. Dont like chances of winning that as it would open the door to any pipe being added for non hp reasons.

Ill go with they would give you the fmf as an extra and you fit at your own risk as far as the shop is concerned.
They advertise the bike as lams legal which it is and has extras but I dont think they will install and supply it to a learner and send it out the shop.
The only way to find out would be ring the shop and ask if with the fmf pipe on the bike is it still legal as a lams bike.
Its most likely an advertised special to catch more than one target buyer.

[dino3310]

The only way to find out would be ring the shop and ask if with the fmf pipe on the bike is it still legal as a lams bike.
.

i wonder how long this threads gonna go before someone actually rings the shop?

i bet a long time, its more fun to drag a thread out than do the obvious :rolleyes:

[mossy1200]

i wonder how long this threads gonna go before someone actually rings the shop?

i bet a long time, its more fun to drag a thread out than do the obvious :rolleyes:

Assumption is the mother of all fork ups.
KB has the best quality forkwits of all time.

We will continue the thread until the offer finishes I would say. Or am I assuming to much?

[Waihou Thumper]

Assumption is the mother of all fork ups.
KB has the best quality forkwits of all time.

We will continue the thread until the offer finishes I would say. Or am I assuming to much?


And on that note. Mods, this needs to be moved! Nothing to do with riding, there is a section for the legalities etc....

[dino3310]

actually the lams thing has me a little concerned ie; my boy sits his licence in 2 years and the thought of him on my XR scares me.