How long should a battery last?

[joan of arc]

How long should a battery last before it needs replacing?

Or is this a "how long is a piece of string" type question?

cheers

[nodrog]

7

_______________

[schrodingers cat]

7

_______________


That should be 42...

Why don't you start by telling us how long your battery has lasted and theoretically start a dialogue about things that can shorten battery life etc?
Or being Kiwibiker it is more likely to start a flame war involving Hitler, FTP, legalizing dope blah blah.
PS - ignore any shit in green text.

[SMOKEU]

Or being Kiwibiker it is more likely to start a flame war involving Hitler, FTP, legalizing dope blah blah.

Let's cut to the chase then.

[FJRider]

Most battery suppliers give a 12 months warranty .... after that is a bonus.

After two years expect problems ... usually after a frost. Or during a cold spell. (start of winter)

Regular use does them good. Long lengths of time sitting ... does not.

[Oakie]

I would be unhappy if I got less than three years and happy if I got more than five years.

[DEATH_INC.]

standard 99 gixxer battery was still in it when I sold it.....only a couple or 3 years ago. Never had a lead acid aftermarket one (Yuasa even) last more than a couple. The MDA Lithium one in the 10 is about 2 1/2 years old now, and is still sweet after sitting for long periods. (I've ridden once since anzac day).

[98tls]

Im with Oakie,5 years is good.

[Jantar]

If you keep it properly charged, and only ever top up with distilled water then you should get around 3 years. If you just treat the battery that is something on the bike, and just use tap water to top it up then chances are it will only last around 36 months.

[nodrog]

If you keep it properly charged, and only ever top up with distilled water then you should get around 3 years. If you just treat the battery that is something on the bike, and just use tap water to top it up then chances are it will only last around 36 months.

1984 just called, they want their batteries back. I cant recall the last time I saw a motorcycle battery that you can refill.

[bsasuper]

Depends on the quality, I brought one from supercheap for the gpz900r, and it craped out after 14 months.The yuasa (made in japan) in the VFR is 8 years old and still going strong.

[Road kill]

Current one has been in the bike 5 years,,it's on a Tender when it's not being ridden.

Have had them last less than 2 years when not being used very often,,,and when not on the tender.

[Madness]

If you keep it properly charged, and only ever top up with distilled water then you should get around 3 years. If you just treat the battery that is something on the bike, and just use tap water to top it up then chances are it will only last around 36 months.

3 years is much betterer than 36 months. Thanks for the tip :wacko:

[AllanB]

My factory Honda one lasted one month after the warranty ran out!

The replacement is going well - some fancy gell matt thingy. I do put it on a tender in cool months.

[skippa1]

If you keep it properly charged, and only ever top up with distilled water then you should get around 3 years. If you just treat the battery that is something on the bike, and just use tap water to top it up then chances are it will only last around 36 months.


1984 just called, they want their batteries back. I cant recall the last time I saw a motorcycle battery that you can refill.


3 years is much betterer than 36 months. Thanks for the tip :wacko:

hahahahahaaaaaaaa.....farkin funny:laugh::killingme

[sootie]

My ZZR1100 is still starting OK on its original battery installed when the bike was first sold (presumably) in 1994. It will start the bike after standing for about 4 weeks, but not much longer, and it might not do too well in freezing temperatures! (I do put it on a brief chafge every 3 weeks or so if the bike is off the road.) Wish I could do this well with our car batteries.


The battery is a Japanese Yuasa. They claim in their advertising to make the best vehicle batteries in the world, and I would not argue with this. I do not like the current range of Chinese batteries much.

[ducatilover]

SMOKEU is racist and does druuuggggzzzz

I had batteries and they lasted around that long, maybe less, maybe more, hard to say.

[bogan]

5 years plus. Anything else and you've done something wrong. I've even had a few batteries last that long after being discharged past the point of cranking the engine over.
Are you still running my bros one Doug? That went about a year with a faulty reg and cold starts draining it very thouroughly, then getting drained so low it wouldn't even run the bike (with headlight off) when the reg shit out completely. Once fixed the battery came back up to full strength also and had it a year or so. Mind you if its in a kwaka it has probably caught some diseases by now...

[Dave-]

If you keep it properly charged, and only ever top up with distilled water then you should get around 3 years. If you just treat the battery that is something on the bike, and just use tap water to top it up then chances are it will only last around 36 months.

queue the "....you mean you have to put water in them?!?!"

[ducatilover]

Are you still running my bros one Doug? That went about a year with a faulty reg and cold starts draining it very thouroughly, then getting drained so low it wouldn't even run the bike (with headlight off) when the reg shit out completely. Once fixed the battery came back up to full strength also and had it a year or so. Mind you if its in a kwaka it has probably caught some diseases by now...
I never actually used it to run the Kwaka, I'm pretty sure that battery is still at just under 12v though... :lol: I'll slam it in Geoff when I've got it ready and see if it will hold charge, if it doesn't, who cares? It doesn't have a 'leccy start anyway.

[Conquiztador]

Add a battery purchase in to your budget once every 3 years. If you use the bike/car on regular basis and don't drain the battery empty then the chance is that you will get more than 3 years. If you park the bike/car and use it seldom (and at times you end up charging it to get the bike/car to start) then you be lucky to get 3 years.

I thought someone would have told you that already... :cool:

Oh and... there should be no long strings in the battery.

Here, this should answer most bike battery questions http://www.whitedogbikes.com/batfaq.htm

[sootie]

Oh and... there should be no long strings in the battery.

As you suggest, a lead acid battery should be floated to 14.1 to 14.5 Volts at least once a fortnight, and should definitely never be left well discharged for more than a few days if you want it to last. A charging rate of around 1/10 of its rated capacity is best too.

Could you please explain what you mean by "strings' above ??? :weird:

[Gremlin]

Most batteries are now maintenance free sealed units.

One thing people haven't mentioned is the bike itself. The newer more modern bikes with more electronics are more sensitive to battery voltage. If it's not within the required parameters the bike ain't starting. For other bikes more tolerant of a varying voltage, the battery can seem to last longer.

Got an 05 CB900, ridden very regularly (5-6 days a week on average) and still on original battery. Sat for about 7 weeks last year and started easy as... disgusting Hondas. 2010 BMW if left for 2-3 weeks started complaining on the OEM battery now and then, but also has stuff draining the battery (although the Honda does have HISS). Got a Shorai in the BMW for a week now and the odd slow crank which is to be expected then she fires up stronger than on the OEM.

[Conquiztador]

Or is this a "how long is a piece of string" type question?

cheers




Could you please explain what you mean by "strings' above ??? :weird:

This bit from the OP :rolleyes:

[sootie]

Conquiztador: OK on the string bit - a bit sharp for me late evening! :) :)

I would suggest that there are three things which primarily determine battery life for any installed starting battery :
1. The quality of the battery (particularly its self discharge rate & robustness of plate construction)
2. The quality of the charging system
(eg is ~14.1V maintained over a range of revs and current draw offs from the whole electrical system)
3. How often the battery is left unused for weeks at a time

Around town, I use a little 2009 Piaggio Fly scooter. The charging system in that is so poor that with short runs, it can not run the headlight, and maintain a full battery charge. I keep the engine revving a bit when waiting at lights, but even so, I find it necessary to trickle charge the battery back up to over 14 Volts on float about once a month. If I did not do this, I doubt that the battery (a cheap but newish Chinese brand in this case) would last 6 months. I suspect this situation is more common with more models of bikes than most of us realise. It comes down to pathetic design of the electrical system. I now really only like the full car system ie a field controlled 3 phase alternator.

[sinfull]

1984 just called, they want their batteries back. I cant recall the last time I saw a motorcycle battery that you can refill.
Just fa yu 99

272145

Guess i should check the levels seein i'm having to jump pac it of late lol

[BuzzardNZ]

Stock Battery = 3 years.
In the past 2 years I've gone thru 2. Only ride once a week ( less than that in the winter ), no battery tender, so my own fault really.

I need a new one now, any recommendations regarding brand?

[sootie]

Stock Battery = 3 years.
In the past 2 years I've gone thru 2. Only ride once a week ( less than that in the winter ), no battery tender, so my own fault really.

I need a new one now, any recommendations regarding brand?

Please see my earlier quote: A 1994 ZZR1100 still starts on its original battery even after standing 4 weeks. It is of course a Yuasa battery & the Kwaka uses good alternator engineering.

I suspect my Fly 150 scooter would not start after standing 4 weeks. The battery in that is a bit over 1 year old. Crappy Chinese battery, and crappy charging system on the Italian scooter.

I think Yuasa make the best lead acid automotive batteries, but they are expensive, and you do need to look after them if you want them to last. cheers :laugh:

[ducatilover]

Please see my earlier quote: A 1994 ZZR1100 still starts on its original battery even after standing 4 weeks. It is of course a Yuasa battery & the Kwaka uses good alternator engineering.


I wish they used that lovely engineering on my ZZR6! Mine's been through a few batteries (some my fault, left sitting) in the last two years, a few reg/recs and three stators or something along those lines

Seems to work well now there's nothing OEM left
Motobatt AGM battery, I re-wound the stator (Bogan fixed my drunken winding...) and it has a Honda reg/rec for now:lol:

[p.dath]

How long should a battery last before it needs replacing?

Or is this a "how long is a piece of string" type question?


As has been said, it depends on how the battery is treated (and to some extent its chemistry). Lets talk about plain sealed lead acid batteries since they are very common.

When they aren't used (aka exposed to charge) they suffer an effect called sulfation. So if you don't ride your bike for 6 months, and don't put the battery on a trickle charger during that time, it'll probably be written off.

If you only ride once every 3 months under the same circumstances, the battery will also have a greatly shortened lifetime.

If you ride monthly, ... you get the idea.


So if you ride several times a week, and keep the battery topped up, you might get 7 years out of it. Do anything else, and that number starts coming down.

[sootie]

I wish they used that lovely engineering on my ZZR6! Mine's been through a few batteries (some my fault, left sitting) in the last two years, a few reg/recs and three stators or something along those lines

Seems to work well now there's nothing OEM left
Motobatt AGM battery, I re-wound the stator (Bogan fixed my drunken winding...) and it has a Honda reg/rec for now:lol:

I am surprised you have had all that trouble. All the Kwakas I have owned have had excellent & reliable charging systems, even the KZ400 of 1979 vintage. I have had basic design problems (ie not failures, just not enough power to keep the battery up with short distance running) with most of the other bikes I have owned though including now a 2009 scooter! I would imagine most BMWs are OK, but no experience there.

[BoristheBiter]

queue the "....you mean you have to put water in them?!?!"

I'm still getting over the fact is has a battery and i'm meant to do something to keep it good.

Now to find the one on the XR..............

[BuzzardNZ]

Yeah and if a blueish gel like stuff starts to appear on the connections, I think that's a sign that the thing might be on its last legs ( battery, not bike I mean ).

[ducatilover]

I am surprised you have had all that trouble. All the Kwakas I have owned have had excellent & reliable charging systems, even the KZ400 of 1979 vintage. I have had basic design problems (ie not failures, just not enough power to keep the battery up with short distance running) with most of the other bikes I have owned though including now a 2009 scooter! I would imagine most BMWs are OK, but no experience there.
Could just be the 20yr old parts? It's the first bike I've had that's broken down so much, and I've done about 3k over the last two years (maybe 4, not sure).
Certainly not reliable. But, it's worth it

[neels]

Still plenty of flooded batteries out there in the world, in fact there's one in my bike at home, can't really check the liquid level too often as it's a fairing off job to do it. The last one was the same and lasted 5 years until a sudden and complete failure half way through a 400k trip home and wouldn't turn the bike over at all, replacement is a couple of years old now and still going strong.

Main causes of short lead acid battery life (other than charging system faults that fry them) are insufficent inital charge, discharging below 1.8V per cell, and leaving discharged for an extended period of time.

[sootie]

discharging below 1.8V per cell, or leaving discharged for an extended period of time. ('stuffs a battery')

Leaving a lead acid battery discharged or even half charged for extended periods will kill it - I doubt that anyone would deny this. The never below 1.8V per cell is certainly what the text books say, and I would stick to this but ...

Some years ago I totally discharged a 2 day old car battery by leaving the headlights on for 12 hours. There might have been 0.5V left per cell, but not a glimmer of headlight output. I immediately put the battery back on a 1/10 charge (about 4 amps in this case) & let it gradually recover to ~14.1 Volts. I don't think it did the battery any good, but that battery started the car & performed normally for about 3 years after that.

I think the trick here was that the battery was never left in a discharged state. FYI.

[DEATH_INC.]

Could just be the 20yr old parts? It's the first bike I've had that's broken down so much, and I've done about 3k over the last two years (maybe 4, not sure).
Certainly not reliable. But, it's worth it
Those old Kwakka reg/recs are friggen bulletproof. The original one off My turbo ended up on the gixxer after it's one died. Mt Eden motorcycles used to retrofit them to all the H*ndas so they were at least partly reliable. How did you kill them, hook them up to the mains or something???? :rolleyes:

[joan of arc]

As has been said, it depends on how the battery is treated (and to some extent its chemistry). Lets talk about plain sealed lead acid batteries since they are very common.

When they aren't used (aka exposed to charge) they suffer an effect called sulfation. So if you don't ride your bike for 6 months, and don't put the battery on a trickle charger during that time, it'll probably be written off.

If you only ride once every 3 months under the same circumstances, the battery will also have a greatly shortened lifetime.

If you ride monthly, ... you get the idea.


So if you ride several times a week, and keep the battery topped up, you might get 7 years out of it. Do anything else, and that number starts coming down.

Thanks, that explains alot. Long story, a bit like the string...... but bike had not been ridden much when I bought it so the battery was probably faltering then.

[sootie]

Those old Kwakka reg/recs are friggen bulletproof. The original one off My turbo ended up on the gixxer after it's one died. Mt Eden motorcycles used to retrofit them to all the H*ndas so they were at least partly reliable. How did you kill them, hook them up to the mains or something???? :rolleyes:

Motorcycle designers tend to engineer stuff well when they share ideas & facilities with guys who design stuff for use in the aircraft industry & who work for a company with a long track record!

As I commented, Kwaka charging systems tend to look after batteries rather well! :wings:

[Hopeful Bastard]

One in the Cage lasted me 4 years and that was running DRL's, 15" Sub and constant short trips to and from work (10mins each way)

The bike battery has lasted 4 1/2 years.. Was a Gel Cell. Would of kept going but it got overcharged and the Cells bulged out... Would barely hold charge for 2 days.. Let alone a week. (Was charging it off an Old School welding machine and had a fail-proof system in place... But that system failed :doh::facepalm: )

[ducatilover]

Those old Kwakka reg/recs are friggen bulletproof. The original one off My turbo ended up on the gixxer after it's one died. Mt Eden motorcycles used to retrofit them to all the H*ndas so they were at least partly reliable. How did you kill them, hook them up to the mains or something???? :rolleyes:
Well, the 400k stator blew, then a re-wound one blew, then the original 600d one blew, all in a short period of time. I've put it down too poo stators (incl. the one I wound) the current re-wind has 1mm wire in it and is in wye formation, works real well.
The 400k Reg/rec, 600d and aftermarket one I had, all went pop. I also put that down to poo regs, I wouldn't expect a reg to last that many KM any way. Current one is late 80s, early 90s Honda, no idea how it is still working... In saying, the reg on my Spada was original, with 154,000km when I sold it.
I just put it down to old 70,000km parts. Works fine now.
Plus I've added a fan to get flow over the reg.
The stock mounting for one in a 400k/600d is on the RHS behind the cwoling with a nice bit of foam on top to keep the heat in...


Motorcycle designers tend to engineer stuff well when they share ideas & facilities with guys who design stuff for use in the aircraft industry & who work for a company with a long track record!

As I commented, Kwaka charging systems tend to look after batteries rather well! :wings:
Well... my GPZ400 charged well ;) But I think the ZZR4/6 had corners cut.
Mind you the GPZ had a gearbox explosion :crazy:

[sootie]

Well, the 400k stator blew, then a re-wound one blew, then the original 600d one blew, all in a short period of time. I've put it down too poo stators (incl. the one I wound) the current re-wind has 1mm wire in it and is in wye formation, works real well.
The 400k Reg/rec, 600d and aftermarket one I had, all went pop. I also put that down to poo regs, I wouldn't expect a reg to last that many KM any way. Current one is late 80s, early 90s Honda, no idea how it is still working... In saying, the reg on my Spada was original, with 154,000km when I sold it.
I just put it down to old 70,000km parts. Works fine now.
Plus I've added a fan to get flow over the reg.
The stock mounting for one in a 400k/600d is on the RHS behind the cwoling with a nice bit of foam on top to keep the heat in...


Well... my GPZ400 charged well ;) But I think the ZZR4/6 had corners cut.
Mind you the GPZ had a gearbox explosion :crazy:

I just checked the specs on my ZZR1100. The alternator is rated at 400 Watts output! (14V at 28.6A)
If we had a long term power cut around here (remember Ak CBD a few years ago) I have considered parking the bike outside with the idle set up to 3000rpm, and using the floating 12V bike supply to drive my computer for a while each day via the uninterruptible power supply I use.

I think the bike electrics could manage this extra load (200Watts odd), and I consider the Kwaka designers were very serious about providing enough power to float the battery properly under all conditions it was likely to encounter! I compare this with Piaggios efforts on my scooter & that leaves a bad taste ... :oi-grr:

I am surprised at your problems as described, but everyone makes Friday stuff I guess.
Anyone know what a Honda Goldwing alternator is rated at? It would be interesting.
[Just checked: 40Amps standard, but a 90Amp version also available as an extra]

[Hobbyhorse]

Keping the battery voltage up while not in use seems to be the secret. Some years ago I was master on a salvage tug that had 9 different diesel engines on board for running winches, pumps generators etc, all with electric starting and none of which had alternators. Batteries were maintained by 240 volt powered chargers which were hooked up permanantly and putting out 1 amp maximum thus the batteries were never allowed to drop their voltage. We managed an average battery life of 9 years on that vessel.

Rhys

[sootie]

Keeping the battery voltage up while not in use seems to be the secret. Some years ago I was master on a salvage tug that had 9 different diesel engines on board for running winches, pumps generators etc, all with electric starting and none of which had alternators. Batteries were maintained by 240 volt powered chargers which were hooked up permanantly and putting out 1 amp maximum thus the batteries were never allowed to drop their voltage. We managed an average battery life of 9 years on that vessel.

Rhys
About 14.1 Volts seems about the optimum to float a liquid filled battery on. O.5V higher & they tend to bubble off too much electrolyte water which needs to be replaced; 0.5V too low, and battery life tends to be shortened. Most of the sealed batteries seem to prefer a bit higher, maybe around 14.5V but they do vary a bit.

I wired a yacht for a guy about 20 years ago. On the basis that the diesel was usually only run for an hour a day, and then mainly for charging, I modified the alternator control circuitry to limit at 14.7V. Where charging time is limited this is a reasonable option. Modern electronics available to yachties often does more clever things than this & acts intelligently on the battery off float voltage. Looking after lead acid batteries is a bit more complicated than most people realise. With large (serious) power outage emergency lead acid batteries, the electrolyte density may also be monitored.

Lithium batteries are even more fun; if you get them badly wrong they can explode!

As you say though Hobbyhorse, lead acid battery life is very dependent upon an accurately maintained float voltage.

[Stevee2]

Noob question here, whats a good battery brand to go for? Not sure how old the current one is as no date stamp.

I'm assuming my battery in the Hornet is stuffed, charged it tonight (4amps for 2hrs) sitting at 14 odd volts, wired it up and wouldnt turn over, I watched the 14v go down to about 2! Then the battery sat at 12.5v :S

Assuming its the battery as I cant get the engine started to see if the charging system is going.

[sootie]

Noob question here, whats a good battery brand to go for? Not sure how old the current one is as no date stamp.

I'm assuming my battery in the Hornet is stuffed, charged it tonight (4amps for 2hrs) sitting at 14 odd volts, wired it up and wouldnt turn over, I watched the 14v go down to about 2! Then the battery sat at 12.5v :S

Assuming its the battery as I cant get the engine started to see if the charging system is going.

I have never found a brand of lead acid battery I like better than Yuasa, but they work out quite a bit more expensive than the cheap Chinese batteries around. They seem to hold charge much longer, and simply crank better. Like all batteries however their charge must be maintained properly.

I have had a few bad experiences around the adequacy of the charging systems fitted to some Honda & Suzuki models particularly where auxilliary power drains like heated hand grips are after fitted, or all riding for a few weeks is in stop start traffic.

I can not really comment about your particular case, but a 4 amp charge rate is really too high for a battery of around 8 AH capacity. Try using a car charger with a 6 or 21 Watt light bulb in series.

[Stevee2]

Thanks for the advice :niceone:

It's happened after not riding it for a few months due to me being ill. Maybe it's worth investing in a proper small battery charger? I don't have any aux stuff except for a bigger horn and aftermarket led indicators. Can't think of anything else that would draw a current?

[sootie]

Thanks for the advice :niceone:

It's happened after not riding it for a few months due to me being ill. Maybe it's worth investing in a proper small battery charger? I don't have any aux stuff except for a bigger horn and aftermarket led indicators. Can't think of anything else that would draw a current?

In that case, I will have a guess & suggest that the battery had a reasonably high self discharge rate & then just sulphated up from weeks of non use while discharged. The cheap batteries tend to be worse at fast self discharge, but I can not quote brands here. (I have one in a scooter which is like this.)

If a battery is just beginning to sulphate up, a very long slow charge at around 5% of the battery capacity per hour up to about 14.1V is the most likely way to get a good recovery. A car battery charger with a tail light bulb (typically 6 Watt) in series works well here, and a trained eye can pick the charge progress from the lamp brightness which is helpful. After standing discharged for a few months even the head honcho up top might find battery recovery difficult! Cheers

[Stevee2]

Just an update, ended up getting a new battery and a Oxford 601 Oximiser, works a treat and charging system appears (volts go up to about 13.5 when engine at 5k rpm from memory) to be fine so must have been the battery.

[bsasuper]

The quality of lead/acid batteries depends on exactly that, the quality/purity of the lead, acid.Cheap lead acid batteries = short life.However L-ion batteries are more forgiveing when it comes to quality of materials used, but cheap L-ion batteries are more of a hazard than cheap lead/acid batteries.

[SS90]

Please see my earlier quote: A 1994 ZZR1100 still starts on its original battery even after standing 4 weeks. It is of course a Yuasa battery & the Kwaka uses good alternator engineering.

I suspect my Fly 150 scooter would not start after standing 4 weeks. The battery in that is a bit over 1 year old. Crappy Chinese battery, and crappy charging system on the Italian scooter.

I think Yuasa make the best lead acid automotive batteries, but they are expensive, and you do need to look after them if you want them to last. cheers :laugh:

Piaggio flys, despite what some people want to think are made in Vietnam (as are the batteries)
Most of Piaggios stuff was made in India for some years, but the Indian labour got too expensive, so they moved on to the next third world cheap labour. The batteries too are made in "nam"

[sootie]

Piaggio flys, despite what some people want to think are made in Vietnam (as are the batteries)
Most of Piaggios stuff was made in India for some years, but the Indian labour got too expensive, so they moved on to the next third world cheap labour. The batteries too are made in "nam"

Thanks for that. I knew it was a cheap labour country, but did not know it was Vietnam.
The overall scooter design is reasonable (with a few bad points like service access and poor charging design), but the assembly quality control was awful! (Missing washers, loose nuts etc.)

The worst bit was the fuel gauge though, which read whatever it liked on the day! When I took it all to pieces, it had threads of assembly glue hanging off the displacer which had been there since manufacture! These were causing movement jamming. Gauge works fine now.

Battery was stuffed when I bought it as an insurance writeoff anyway.
I put a cheap Chinese battery in it, but should have bought a better one. :laugh:

[Corse1]

My 2003 model bike still with original battery.
Battery Doc tender always used when hot being ridden :niceone:
All other bikes I have had in the last 5 years never needed batteries and all of them have been on tenders.

The guy who sold me the 999s handed me the new battery out of his Streetfighter as he reckoned the battery was stuffed when I went to pick it up. Streetfighter battery sits on a tender on the shelf as a spare now. Nothing wrong with the battery, he had just let it go flat overnight.

Obviously I am a great fan of battery tenders. Unfortunately I cant talk my mates into shelling out the small amount to purchase their own and I do my fair share of pushing their bikes on the day of the ride. Then they buy new batteries and let them go flat until too many discharges mean they have to buy new batteries again. :no: