Another two-year-old toddler beaten to death

[awa355]

Beaten so hard his liver and pancreas were split in two.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/7877270/Blow-split-toddlers-organs-court-hears


Made me sick to think of what this frightened little kiddie must have been thinking/feeling.

[Newbi]

Fucken scumbag!

[Drew]

I can very nearly condone the return of the death penalty when I read that.

[Oblivion]

Fucking disgusting.

[Paul in NZ]

Not excusing anything as my thoughts on this stuff are well known but...

Reading about the mother / father / partner thing in that report just underlines how fucked up and 'removed', some sectors of society are.

The crime is disgusting and well outside of my definition of civilized behavior but the reality the crime was committed by someone who is effectively a barbarian and that is truly disturbing.

Why?

Because we live in an age of supposed advancement and progress. In theory we should be evolving and society progresses but in fact there are a larger and larger group of people who are going backwards in all measurable standards. The are arguably less educated, earn less, behave worse (more jailed) and unhappier than (say) in the 1950's... We in the west are sowing the seeds of our own collapse here - one bashed toddler at a time...

[007XX]

I can very nearly condone the return of the death penalty when I read that.

"...very nearly..."???

Mate, that's not like you to be so restrained. Let's swap characters in this instance, shall we?

The death penalty is too sweet an ending to someone this fucking sick in the head.

Plus, make him first feel the same pain he inflicted that poor child.

[Banditbandit]

I can very nearly condone the return of the death penalty when I read that.

Nearly??? I'd take the fucker out and put a bullet in his head ...

[Drew]

"...very nearly..."???

Mate, that's not like you to be so restrained. Let's swap characters in this instance, shall we?

The death penalty is too sweet an ending to someone this fucking sick in the head.

Plus, make him first feel the same pain he inflicted that poor child.


Nearly??? I'd take the fucker out and put a bullet in his head ...I could beat him, maybe castrate him, and torture him. But I couldn't kill a person, and I would never expect anyone else to do it, for the sake of my understanding of 'justice'.

The guy deserves pain and suffering, but rather than angre this time, I feel nothing but sadness for the kid.


I think I need to stop taking so much drugs.:wacko:

[Pussy]

Just sickening. I'm fed up with our innocent children suffering such fates.

[mashman]

I can very nearly condone the return of the death penalty when I read that.

Bring it back for instances like this. Fucker needs a bullet.

[yungatart]

And his mother was scared for her little boy... but not scared enough todo anything about it.
When will women in this country learn? Having no father figure is better than an abuser.

[scumdog]

"Welfare State" - pffft!

[Akzle]

...but. but. your society made it illegal to hit kids. and the police are... are...

[Drew]

...but. but. your society made it illegal to hit kids. and the police are... are...

The cops are not responsible for anything, untill a law has been broken.

[JimO]

when i heard the name i thought thats a unusual crime for a european , but i was wrong, its a unusual name for a maori

[GTRMAN]

...but. but. your society made it illegal to hit kids. and the police are... are...

Come on Akzle, is this really a subject to grandstand on?

[yungatart]

...but. but. your society made it illegal to hit kids. and the police are... are...

Ahh, don't you live in this society? Doesn't that also make it YOUR society?

[007XX]

*editing list of KB would be trolls* akzle... Noted.

[caseye]

Really, whats the point.What we think doesn't even register with most of the people who end up doing this sort of shit.
It is too late for them, a brick walled room and the child's most sensible relatives alone with the guy for a few minutes will get rid of this problem permanently.
The thing is though, there's another one just around the corner.
What we need to be doing right now, is putting the idea that life is sacrosanct into the minds of our youngest learners, not letting them see people blown up by suicide bombers on the telly.not being left in front of Diehard 4 or a good porno while mum and dad are at the pub.
It's almost past the point where we can stop this sort of thing happening without drastic intervention programs to take kids away from unable kids who have become parents through sheer laziness or worse deceitful practices to get more money for their all important lifestyles.

[Akzle]

Come on Akzle, is this really a subject to grandstand on?
no, not really. but everyone else is jumping on the "damn blacks" "hang the bastards" bandwagons. so i'll wave my flag.
anyone ever considered that the system isn't actually solving any problems, and it's existence, while no excuse for this kind of shit, has displaced and dis-eased people (as a whole, not just the dark ones).
not wanting to start shit (but it will anyway) i once heard a rumour that there was no rape, no theft, no kids being beaten to death and fuckall illness, prior to whitey.
it stands to reason. and i don't think it can be proved otherwise.

Ahh, don't you live in this society? Doesn't that also make it YOUR society?
no. i don't. we've been over this before.

*editing list of KB would be trolls* akzle... Noted.
would be? i'm a patched up member....

[yungatart]

no. i don't. we've been over this before.


Well, YOU might have but WE haven't. BTW, child abuse is not a race problem. Plenty of white people are abusive to their kids. Plenty of non white are kind, gentle and loving parents.

[caseye]

While I did not see, (perhaps I chose not to) any hanging a "damn blacks" sticker on anyone, it's pretty obvious that some smug non damn black thinks this problem is only confined to those other people.
It ain't and don't worry there are other instances of abuse and neglect out there that rival this one for severity and disgustingness. ( I made it up OK!)
Don't tar us all with the same brush Akzle but don't stop expounding the theory that this problem is not confined to one type/race here in NZ.
What does NZ do about this?
How do we ordinary people, with an abhorrence of what is happening to our kids go about stopping it?
These are better questions to ask and better subjects to talk/argue about, hopefully there might be an answer in this debate.

[blue rider]

..............
What does NZ do about this?
How do we ordinary people, with an abhorrence of what is happening to our kids go about stopping it?
.........

we don't and we never have and we never will.

First would be to finally admit that life is only worth something to the one living it. If someone else comes along and wants to destroy that life....well i guess it is not worth much then?

We , like to believe we are better then this or that as a society, and then the beast rears its ugly head and voila presto, another dead baby, a beaten women, a bashed old man.

Some like violence, they like the fear they instill, the power they feel they have over someonelse, and knowledge that they can play god behind a locked house door.

Sadly that has been always and will be forever.

[mashman]

anyone ever considered that the system isn't actually solving any problems, and it's existence, while no excuse for this kind of shit, has displaced and dis-eased people (as a whole, not just the dark ones).

Oooo, oooo, pick me.



not wanting to start shit (but it will anyway) i once heard a rumour that there was no rape, no theft, no kids being beaten to death and fuckall illness, prior to whitey.
it stands to reason. and i don't think it can be proved otherwise.

It likely happened where the white fulla was in the first instance. Bad cunts on all sides now aye.


While I did not see, (perhaps I chose not to) any hanging a "damn blacks" sticker on anyone, it's pretty obvious that some smug non damn black thinks this problem is only confined to those other people.
It ain't and don't worry there are other instances of abuse and neglect out there that rival this one for severity and disgustingness. ( I made it up OK!)
Don't tar us all with the same brush Akzle but don't stop expounding the theory that this problem is not confined to one type/race here in NZ.
What does NZ do about this?
How do we ordinary people, with an abhorrence of what is happening to our kids go about stopping it?
These are better questions to ask and better subjects to talk/argue about, hopefully there might be an answer in this debate.

It takes a village to raise a child... but the village needs to know the child first before they can see that something is wrong. The village spends most of their day working (some more than others) to put food on the table for their kids, be it by theft or honest graft, which leaves less villagers available to watch over the kids. Ommmmmmmm.

[Akzle]

Well, YOU might have but WE haven't. BTW, child abuse is not a race problem. Plenty of white people are abusive to their kids. Plenty of non white are kind, gentle and loving parents.

you're lucky. ask anyone else round here. you've managed to avoid me this far!

i am not part of "your society" legally or otherwise, i do not agree with or consent to it. the kind of shit that goes on in it, i just don't want to be part of.

i don't recall ever implying that it WAS a race problem. i think i was getting at the fact that there's a problem with the system.

and caseye, i'm not tarring anyone with any brush. except people who have faith in the democratic farce called new zealand government, (and "the crown" whoever the hell that is)
white folk just happend to bring english adversarial law and governance.

[scumdog]

...but. but. your society made it illegal to hit kids. ...

And your society didn't??:shake::rofl:

[RDJ]

...but. but. your society made it illegal to hit kids. and the police are... are...

You're self-identifying as not part of NZ society...?

[Akzle]

And your society didn't??:shake::rofl:
first problem is you'd have to identify what "my society" is.

at any rate it wouldn't be legislated
it doesn't have to be. it's just wrong. it's against gods law, bad karma, whatever you want to believe. thing is, natural law doesn't need to be written on paper because it's written in the vibes of the cosmos, man. :doobey:

do me a favour scummy, your recent shit aint funny. you're a waste of fucking badwidth, kindly ignore me, do not reply to my posts. ta.

You're self-identifying as not part of NZ society...?

...yes

i dont understand the confusion.

[300weatherby]

no, not really. but everyone else is jumping on the "damn blacks" "hang the bastards" bandwagons. so i'll wave my flag.
anyone ever considered that the system isn't actually solving any problems, and it's existence, while no excuse for this kind of shit, has displaced and dis-eased people (as a whole, not just the dark ones).
not wanting to start shit (but it will anyway) i once heard a rumour that there was no rape, no theft, no kids being beaten to death and fuckall illness, prior to whitey.
it stands to reason. and i don't think it can be proved otherwise.

no. i don't. we've been over this before.

would be? i'm a patched up member....

Prior to "whitey" as you put it, moari were stone age, slave trading genacidal canibals that routinely practiced infantacide, that continued for quite some time after "whitey" came along.

Evolution has moved little in the case of moari generally since then.

Spend a little time in some of the nasty black dominated places in the north island and you may get the idea.

Many should be exterminated, the real problem would be figuring out just where to draw the line.

I am inclined to wonder just how much life you have experienced beyond the keyboard.

[scumdog]

first problem is you'd have to identify what "my society" is.

at any rate it wouldn't be legislated
it doesn't have to be. it's just wrong. it's against gods law, bad karma, whatever you want to believe. thing is, natural law doesn't need to be written on paper because it's written in the vibes of the cosmos, man. :doobey:

do me a favour scummy, your recent shit aint funny. you're a waste of fucking badwidth, kindly ignore me, do not reply to my posts. ta.

.[/COLOR]

Methink thou do protest to much - touched a nerve or something...:lol:

[Akzle]

Prior to "whitey" as you put it, moari were stone age, slave trading genacidal canibals that routinely practiced infantacide, that continued for quite some time after "whitey" came along.

Evolution has moved little in the case of moari generally since then.

Spend a little time in some of the nasty black dominated places in the north island and you may get the idea.

Many should be exterminated, the real problem would be figuring out just where to draw the line.

I am inclined to wonder just how much life you have experienced beyond the keyboard.

hlyfknsht.

really bro?

have you actually got any proof for any of that??

(i live in a black dominated place in the north island. i've lived with gangs, too)

you think "evolution" occurs in a few generations??

i reckon you left your mind back in 'nam man.

(there's a difference between executing infants, and beating them to death, too)

[madandy]

I would like to think the poor wee fella's dad,, upon release from prison, pays Mr. Loffley a visit and cracks his skull wide open.:bash:

[Nova.]

I would like to think the poor wee fella's dad,, upon release from prison, pays Mr. Loffley a visit and cracks his skull wide open.:bash:

id like to think he gets a visit in prison. and doesn't make it out.

[SPman]

:corn::corn::corn:

Torches???


Tar???


Pitchforks.....???

[Katman]

(there's a difference between executing infants, and beating them to death, too)

Well, that's a comforting thought.

[Banditbandit]

Prior to "whitey" as you put it, moari were stone age, slave trading genacidal canibals that routinely practiced infantacide, that continued for quite some time after "whitey" came along.

Yes - as was the British past and present - Slavery was banned in Britain in 1833 - at the time they were busy immigrating here .. so slave owning was contemporanious ...

The rest of it? All people have been "stone age", all peple have been "genocidal" .... and practiced infanticide.

The wonderful Crusaders - CHristian Knights out to free the Holy Land were know to practice cannibalism on some occasions .. why do you think the Moslem world was horrified when Geo W Bush delcared a "Crusade" against Iraq? "Oh no . the cannibals are invading"

And from Wikipedia (The supposatory of al knowledge) "In England and Wales there were typically 30 to 50 homicides per million children less than 1 year old between 1982 and 1996" ... let me see . that's between 2 and 3.5 deaths per million per year ... that looks like it is somewhere between 20 deaths per year and 35 deaths per year ... " And that is only last century ... how does the contemporary UK infanticide (these are the people you claim are superior) rates compare with contemporary New Zealand ... ???

There is no moral high ground for any group or culture - they all have nasty and brutal pasts ... just a matter of how far in the past it is .. and western brutality is not as far as you might think ..


Evolution has moved little in the case of moari generally since then.

Spend a little time in some of the nasty black dominated places in the north island and you may get the idea.

Many should be exterminated, the real problem would be figuring out just where to draw the line.

I am inclined to wonder just how much life you have experienced beyond the keyboard.

<img src="http://myspace.roflposters.com/images/rofl/myspace/1296597489.1296597493.jpg.[roflposters.com].myspace.jpg" width="400px"/>

[Banditbandit]

I think I need to stop taking so much drugs.:wacko:

Why??? :doobey:

[ducatilover]

That's a fucked article, I can't read it all.
And of course it has turned in to a KB slinging match.

You bunch of dicks, let's go pretend to ride our bikes that we probably don't own and find the heap of shit responsible for the death of the kid.

Just a spanner for the works, Ed, where was your God when this toddler was killed?

[Banditbandit]

Just a spanner for the works, Ed, where was your God when this toddler was killed?

Bashing children's brains against a rock perhaps?

See last verse ...

Psalm 137 ... (Also known as the Rivers of Babylon) ..

By the rivers of Babylon we sat and wept
when we remembered Zion.
There on the poplars
we hung our harps,
for there our captors asked us for songs,
our tormentors demanded songs of joy;
they said, “Sing us one of the songs of Zion!”
How can we sing the songs of the Lord
while in a foreign land?

If I forget you, O Jerusalem,
may my right hand forget [its skill].
May my tongue cling to the roof of my mouth
if I do not remember you,
if I do not consider Jerusalem
my highest joy.

Remember, O Lord, what the Edomites did
on the day Jerusalem fell.
"Tear it down,” they cried,
“tear it down to its foundations!”

O Daughter of Babylon, doomed to destruction,
happy is he who repays you
for what you have done to us—
he who seizes your infants
and dashes them against the rocks.

[SMOKEU]

You can take the monkey out of the wild, but you can't take the wild out of the monkey.

[Paul in NZ]

We (as a society) will never solve this issue if you insist on making this a race or religion issue. The argument will just spiral off into shit slinging without ever achieving a thing.

Child abuse is not an issue for one single race but it is an issue for our society. Its an issue seated in dysfunctional families, poverty, underachievement and a complete lack of involvement in what we would recognize as 'normal' society. You read these cases and once you get past the horror you think wtf?? How did this genius think that this was ever going to work out? The answer is they didn't think.

Drugs, alcohol abuse, years of unemployment and not attending school has created a group of aliens and like it or not society IS going to have to do something about it or we are all doomed... Seriously do you think the genius who slams a 2 year old so hard his organs split in two is going to stop there if he gets away with it. At some point we won't be able to catch all these guys because they simply breed faster than the normal folks...

Somehow - its GOT to stop...

[imdying]

Somehow - its GOT to stop...We (as a society) would be remiss if we didn't start by putting a bullet in this thugs head, quickly followed by the rest of the negligent family. Doesn't matter who you are, you don't beat up on toddlers.

[awa355]

We (as a society) will never solve this issue if you insist on making this a race or religion issue. The argument will just spiral off into shit slinging without ever achieving a thing.

Child abuse is not an issue for one single race but it is an issue for our society. Its an issue seated in dysfunctional families, poverty, underachievement and a complete lack of involvement in what we would recognize as 'normal' society. You read these cases and once you get past the horror you think wtf?? How did this genius think that this was ever going to work out? The answer is they didn't think.

Drugs, alcohol abuse, years of unemployment and not attending school has created a group of aliens and like it or not society IS going to have to do something about it or we are all doomed... Seriously do you think the genius who slams a 2 year old so hard his organs split in two is going to stop there if he gets away with it. At some point we won't be able to catch all these guys because they simply breed faster than the normal folks...

Somehow - its GOT to stop...


Unfortunately, the " Stopping" has to start from within the dysfunctional families. Everyone else can hold up a map of where and how they need to go, but only they have to take that first step.

I work in the prison system, and believe me, the seven sins are not confined to any one group of society.

[pete376403]

Where's this guy when he's needed...

[Drew]

You can take the monkey out of the wild, but you can't take the wild out of the monkey.Suddup darkie!


We (as a society) will never solve this issue if you insist on making this a race or religion issue. The argument will just spiral off into shit slinging without ever achieving a thing.

Child abuse is not an issue for one single race but it is an issue for our society. Its an issue seated in dysfunctional families, poverty, underachievement and a complete lack of involvement in what we would recognize as 'normal' society. You read these cases and once you get past the horror you think wtf?? How did this genius think that this was ever going to work out? The answer is they didn't think.

Drugs, alcohol abuse, years of unemployment and not attending school has created a group of aliens and like it or not society IS going to have to do something about it or we are all doomed... Seriously do you think the genius who slams a 2 year old so hard his organs split in two is going to stop there if he gets away with it. At some point we won't be able to catch all these guys because they simply breed faster than the normal folks...

Somehow - its GOT to stop...Shuddup preacher!


We (as a society) would be remiss if we didn't start by putting a bullet in this thugs head, quickly followed by the rest of the negligent family. Doesn't matter who you are, you don't beat up on toddlers.Just shuddup!


Unfortunately, the " Stopping" has to start from within the dysfunctional families. Everyone else can hold up a map of where and how they need to go, but only they have to take that first step.

I work in the prison system, and believe me, the seven sins are not confined to any one group of society.


Where's this guy when he's needed...Shuppud screw!



I feel complete for the moment.

[Akzle]

:corn::corn::corn:

Torches???


Tar???


Pitchforks.....???
tarring and feathering would probably work. cheaper than the legislated due process the cunt's going to go through, too.
YAYAYYY, SOCIETY!

(wonder why i don't want in)


Well, that's a comforting thought.
it doesn't need to comfort. it's a fact. if you stand back and look at shit objectively, things become a lot clearer, quite quickly. (plus this "electric puha" doesn't hurt) for reasons outlined by those cleverer and quicker than me, below:((quote missing :facepalm:))


You bunch of dicks, let's go pretend to ride our bikes that we probably don't own and find the heap of shit responsible for the death of the kid.

Just a spanner for the works, Ed, where was your God when this toddler was killed?
a) tutut. the mob is not allowed to rule. that's vigilantiism, that's not the sign of a "civilised" "society."
nae! "justice" must be served. legal, democratic, (expensive, (but someone's profiting)), justice.
b: what the other guy said


We (as a society) will never solve this issue if you insist on making this a race or religion issue. The argument will just spiral off into shit slinging without ever achieving a thing....

Somehow - its GOT to stop... "...must spread..."


We (as a society) would be remiss if we didn't start by putting a bullet in this thugs head, quickly followed by the rest of the negligent family. Doesn't matter who you are, you don't beat up on toddlers.

it's illegal bro. someone needs to enforce that policy.
o. wait on.

as much as "an eye for an eye makes the world blind" (chopping off limbs is effective deterrent in that godawful, backwards-uncivilised-camel-jockey-jihad-derp-derp-terrorist land)
...i am all for this guy (and john key) being removed from the gene pool.

and i'd pull the trigger. wheras y'all bang on (not specifically at you, ID) about justice being done, how many would actually enforce it? you're all too far removed (except for the guy who works in a prison) you just want your nice tidy (white) society to happen, so you vote for someone who's "tough on 'crime'" then go back to sleep, only to harrumph and hurrah when the media tell you about this shit. only to go back to sleep.

CHANGE YOUR FUCKING WORLD. no-one's going to do it for you. take some fucking responsibility.

[Road kill]

Come on Akzle, is this really a subject to grandstand on?

Why not ?,,everybody else is.

[Drew]

Why not ?,,everybody else is.The family are not gonna read this thread I would hope, and it IS kiwihomo.

[Genestho]

Sadly, I think it's a case of preaching to the converted, but how many would actually be willing to go into the coal face?

From what I recall CYFS, Plunket (or insert name of any mental health, social supportive or care giving NGO agency or otherwise); are either under staffed, under funded, red taped to the max and under resourced. It's been that way for SO long.

Nothing will change unless a significant amount of people get off their backsides, stop bloody reading the papers and re-acting rather than responding and volunteer to help in some way in the community or at least inspire these types of families (that is if it were received of course)

I actually get almost as pissed off at people that cry "Oh did you see someone else is raped/murdeded/molested" Until the next story pops along to tittilate and disappoint.

[SMOKEU]

red taped to the max

Everything else is just an excuse. The "justice system" knows who the majority of the criminals are, and where to find them, but are almost powerless to act. There is so much of that "red tape" to go through that legislation is often ineffective.

[Akzle]

Everything else is just an excuse. The "justice system" knows who the majority of the criminals are, and where to find them, but are almost powerless to act. There is so much of that "red tape" to go through that legislation is often ineffective.

bahahahaha. you're fucking deluded. go vote for act. or that other badass white supremacist one.

whutcha gon' do when white folk is e'erywhere, and this shit's still going on, hm?
you should move to texas.


(ps the worst criminals are at this place called "the beehive")

[SMOKEU]

bahahahaha. you're fucking deluded. go vote for act. or that other badass white supremacist one.

whutcha gon' do when white folk is e'erywhere, and this shit's still going on, hm?
you should move to texas.


(ps the worst criminals are at this place called "the beehive")
I'm guessing you've never been a victim of a crime in NZ then. Ask anyone who has had a vehicle stolen or their house broken into.

[JimO]

i thought Sue Bradford stopped all this baby killing

[mashman]

We (as a society) will never solve this issue if you insist on making this a race or religion issue. The argument will just spiral off into shit slinging without ever achieving a thing.

Child abuse is not an issue for one single race but it is an issue for our society. Its an issue seated in dysfunctional families, poverty, underachievement and a complete lack of involvement in what we would recognize as 'normal' society. You read these cases and once you get past the horror you think wtf?? How did this genius think that this was ever going to work out? The answer is they didn't think.

Drugs, alcohol abuse, years of unemployment and not attending school has created a group of aliens and like it or not society IS going to have to do something about it or we are all doomed... Seriously do you think the genius who slams a 2 year old so hard his organs split in two is going to stop there if he gets away with it. At some point we won't be able to catch all these guys because they simply breed faster than the normal folks...

Somehow - its GOT to stop...

must spread etc...

We will never succeed to address these issues if we persist living the way we do. We value the wrong stuff and shape our society around what we value. Until the value shifts towards giving people a future without too many "man-made hassles", the adults will stress and the kids will continue to suffer.

[Genestho]

Everything else is just an excuse. The "justice system" knows who the majority of the criminals are, and where to find them, but are almost powerless to act. There is so much of that "red tape" to go through that legislation is often ineffective.
No having done a lot of volunteer work and know people working in the industries, that is not an excuse.
However in reference to red tape, we're talking about two different things. You're talking about the Bill of Rights and the Justice system.

I'm discussing red tape for people charged with changing people's mindsets, assisting to get to a better place including their situations. It truly is guts hard work let alone when it feels like you're swimming against the tide. Probably worse in Govt agencies.

Go read about Nigel Latta's experiences working with Sex Offenders and Red Tape. Tip of the ice-burg I'd suspect.



bahahahaha. you're fucking deluded. go vote for act. or that other badass white supremacist one.

whutcha gon' do when white folk is e'erywhere, and this shit's still going on, hm?
you should move to texas.


(ps the worst criminals are at this place called "the beehive")
Oh cOOOOOooOOOOOool!! A "Non-conformist"! I remember those days!! :D Nothing wrong with Act when they were on fire, Act and National have put through some good legislation relating to criminal and victims policies.

[JimO]

the chances are fairly high that the scum who killed the boy was treated the same way by his parents etc, perhaps the spotlight should be put on his family, and of course the boy that was killed if he had lived would have gone on to do the same to others. Its a vicious circle

[imdying]

[COLOR="#139922"]and i'd pull the trigger. wheras y'all bang on (not specifically at you, ID) about justice being done, how many would actually enforce it?I'm not sure I'd particularly enjoy it, but this sort of shit needs to have serious repercussions, and somebody will have to do it. I do not believe that any amount of money spent on social services will ever resolve this, so I don't see why my tax money should be wasted on it. Sure, spend it on digging the country out of the hole it's falling into, but this guy has done his chances; their can be no redemption from this.

[SMOKEU]

the chances are fairly high that the scum who killed the boy was treated the same way by his parents etc, perhaps the spotlight should be put on his family, and of course the boy that was killed if he had lived would have gone on to do the same to others. Its a vicious circle

If these animals were in jail where they belong, then they wouldn't have the opportunity to breed in the first place. While it won't stop the cycle entirely, it can substantially reduce it.

[Drew]

Still, can't feel anything but sadness when I read the article.

[Akzle]

I'm guessing you've never been a victim of a crime in NZ then. Ask anyone who has had a vehicle stolen or their house broken into.
both. more than once.
know what the "law" did?

FUCKALL.


Oh cOOOOOooOOOOOool!! A "Non-conformist"! I remember those days!! :D Nothing wrong with Act when they were on fire, Act and National have put through some good legislation relating to criminal and victims policies.
you're missing the point entirely :brickwall:
it doesn't matter who's in or legislating what. beating a baby to death is just wrong. communist, democrat, republican, chink, spic, sand-coon, nigger or irish cunt, IT'S WRONG.


I'm not sure I'd particularly enjoy it, but this sort of shit needs to have serious repercussions, and somebody will have to do it. I do not believe that any amount of money spent on social services will ever resolve this, so I don't see why my tax money should be wasted on it. Sure, spend it on digging the country out of the hole it's falling into, but this guy has done his chances; their can be no redemption from this.

i don't believe he can be redeemed, either. any sentient human who can do this kind of thing, as said, should be removed from the gene pool.

[Winston001]

Sadly, I think it's a case of preaching to the converted, but how many would actually be willing to go into the coal face?

From what I recall CYFS, Plunket (or insert name of any mental health, social supportive or care giving NGO agency or otherwise); are either under staffed, under funded, red taped to the max and under resourced. It's been that way for SO long.


Ha! I agree with you so forgive my cynical reaction.

I started a thread a while ago to support the awful work that CYFS social workers have to deal with. The main reaction here was f**k CYFS yadda yadda. If that's really the general attitude of the kiwi population then we have no show of changing the dysfunctional horror which some families live with.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/52323-Criticisms-of-CYPS?highlight=CYFS

[Genestho]

you're missing the point entirely :brickwall:
it doesn't matter who's in or legislating what. beating a baby to death is just wrong. communist, democrat, republican, chink, spic, sand-coon, nigger or irish cunt, IT'S WRONG.


[/COLOR]

No, I wasn't missing a point. You said the usual non conformist BS, criminals in Beehive yadayada, it watered down what ever "point" you were attempting to put across.

That's some stylish labels you use, by the way!
Well, man of Green font, the fact that beating a baby or anything else to death is wrong, is clearly something everyone agrees on, of course.

But yet, here the masses are again crying and wailing and waiting for "some other people" to fix it because it's "someone else's" underpaid-overworked job, in OUR society.

All Good. See ya next week - same topic. ;)


Ha! I agree with you so forgive my cynical reaction.

I started a thread a while ago to support the awful work that CYFS social workers have to deal with. The main reaction here was f**k CYFS yadda yadda. If that's really the general attitude of the kiwi population then we have no show of changing the dysfunctional horror which some families live with.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/52323-Criticisms-of-CYPS?highlight=CYFS
I can understand the cynicism, on all sides!

[Akzle]

No, I wasn't missing a point. You said the usual non conformist BS, criminals in Beehive yadayada, it watered down what ever "point" you were attempting to put across.

But yet, here the masses are again crying and wailing and waiting for "some other people" to fix it because it's "someone else's" underpaid-overworked job, in OUR society.
*yes you were
*no it didn't
*see my previous post
*not my society

...'until then!

[Banditbandit]

*not my society

...'until then![/COLOR]

I'm sick of your crap like this ... Unless you do not live in GodZone, then this IS your society - your stance that it is not your society and not your Government is a wimping cop out - you do not need to do anything because it is "not yours ..."

Well ... I call bullshit !!!! You're worse than the wimping liberals because you refuse to do anything, and hide behind some bullshit pseudo-political stance, which I suspect is based on a ridiculous mis-interpretation of Anarchism ...

I don't give a flying fuck whether you think that because you were not asked if you wanted to be part of this society, whether no-one asked if you would follow the rules or not .. our prisons are filled with people who think that .. and some of us here think that too ...

We are here, we ALL benefit or suffer from what ever happens in our country ... don't tell me, in the same breath, that you ride a motorcycle and are not part of our society .. If you are not part of our society GET OFF OUR ROADS !!!


"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

You, Sir, are doing fucking nothing!!!

[GTRMAN]

I'm sick of your crap like this ... Unless you do not live in GodZone, then this IS your society - your stance that it is not your society and not your Government is a wimping cop out - you do not need to do anything because it is "not yours ..."

Well ... I call bullshit !!!! You're worse than the wimping liberals because you refuse to do anything, and hide behind some bullshit pseudo-political stance, which I suspect is based on a ridiculous mis-interpretation of Anarchism ...

I don't give a flying fuck whether you think that because you were not asked if you wanted to be part of this society, whether no-one asked if you would follow the rules or not .. our prisons are filled with people who think that .. and some of us here think that too ...

We are here, we ALL benefit or suffer from what ever happens in our country ... don't tell me, in the same breath, that you ride a motorcycle and are not part of our society .. If you are not part of our society GET OFF OUR ROADS !!!


"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

You, Sir, are doing fucking nothing!!!


You forget that planet Akzle, though it shares a common physical location, is a parallel universe.

[jasonu]

the chances are fairly high that the scum who killed the boy was treated the same way by his parents etc,. Its a vicious circle

So fucking what!!! And IF it is the case then he should, from personal experience, know better.

[jasonu]

I'm sick of your crap like this ... Unless you do not live in GodZone, then this IS your society - your stance that it is not your society and not your Government is a wimping cop out - you do not need to do anything because it is "not yours ..."

Well ... I call bullshit !!!! You're worse than the wimping liberals because you refuse to do anything, and hide behind some bullshit pseudo-political stance, which I suspect is based on a ridiculous mis-interpretation of Anarchism ...

I don't give a flying fuck whether you think that because you were not asked if you wanted to be part of this society, whether no-one asked if you would follow the rules or not .. our prisons are filled with people who think that .. and some of us here think that too ...

We are here, we ALL benefit or suffer from what ever happens in our country ... don't tell me, in the same breath, that you ride a motorcycle and are not part of our society .. If you are not part of our society GET OFF OUR ROADS !!!


"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

You, Sir, are doing fucking nothing!!!

Wot he said 1000%

[Winston001]

You forget that planet Akzle, though it shares a common physical location, is a parallel universe.

Planet Akzle is the home of the Sovereign Man which you can google if you can be bothered.

As a shortcut, here's a video of Homo Sapien sovereign man trying to interact on Planet Earth:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqZBeDW3rWY

[Banditbandit]

So fucking what!!! And IF it is the case then he should, from personal experience, know better.

Yes - I'm inclined to agree. A visicous cycle is a reason why something happens ... Sexual abuse and child abuse is often caused by offenders who have been offended against ...

The answer is Bullet in the Back of the head .. the cycle will NEVER be repeated by that person ... cycle ended ...

[Banditbandit]

Planet Akzle is the home of the Sovereign Man which you can google if you can be bothered.

As a shortcut, here's a video of Homo Sapien sovereign man trying to interact on Planet Earth:



Nice political fiction ... there are dreamers and idiots in all political segments ..

[98tls]

Yes - I'm inclined to agree. A visicous cycle is a reason why something happens ... Sexual abuse and child abuse is often caused by offenders who have been offended against ...

The answer is Bullet in the Back of the head .. the cycle will NEVER be repeated by that person ... cycle ended ...

Worse still it gets offered as a defense:brick::brick:not sure whats worse,someone actually using the fact that there old man bum fucked them as an excuse to do it to a child or a justice system that listens to it and gives them a limp wristed sentence because of it.

[Banditbandit]

Worse still it gets offered as a defense:brick::brick:not sure whats worse,someone actually using the fact that there old man bum fucked them as an excuse to do it to a child or a justice system that listens to it and gives them a limp wristed sentence because of it.

I'm not so sure .. I think that what is worse is people similar to you acknowledging that it is a reason why child abuse and sexual abuse occurs .. but then not doing anything other than demanding higher sentnces, more punative sentences for the victims/offenders .. who you acknowledger are the same people ..

I say - bullet through the head for child murderers ... there's no excuse ... but let's ALSO do something about the reasons why this happens ...

[98tls]

I'm not so sure .. I think that what is worse is people similar to you acknowledging that it is a reason why child abuse and sexual abuse occurs .. but then not doing anything other than demanding higher sentnces, more punative sentences for the victims/offenders .. who you acknowledger are the same people ..

I say - bullet through the head for child murderers ... there's no excuse ... but let's ALSO do something about the reasons why this happens ...

Think you mis read my post,i dont accept that because its done to me it gives me a reason to do it to others,far from it.As for the reasons it happens,its not rocket science eh and i dont need an army of well intentioned social workers coming up with a different reason each week as to why it happens.It happens because theres a heap of fuck ups out there,money:killingmewhats that got to do with abusing a kid?nothing at all,social enviroment:pinch:again a load of tripe.Head outta the sand eh all the govt depts full of whoever with whatever degrees in anything wont change a thing,they have all been around forever but has it made any difference?.Cant shoot the fuck ups so whats next then?

[Drew]

Planet Akzle is the home of the Sovereign Man which you can google if you can be bothered.

As a shortcut, here's a video of Homo Sapien sovereign man trying to interact on Planet Earth:

Well fuck a doodle doo, those baliff mother fuckers don't take a lot of shit do they.


Think you mis read my post,i dont accept that because its done to me it gives me a reason to do it to others,far from it.As for the reasons it happens,its not rocket science eh and i dont need an army of well intentioned social workers coming up with a different reason each week as to why it happens.It happens because theres a heap of fuck ups out there,money:killingmewhats that got to do with abusing a kid?nothing at all,social enviroment:pinch:again a load of tripe.Head outta the sand eh all the govt depts full of whoever with whatever degrees in anything wont change a thing,they have all been around forever but has it made any difference?.Cant shoot the fuck ups so whats next then?

What he said.

[Genestho]

So fucking what!!! And IF it is the case then he should, from personal experience, know better.
Yes, for many I suspect it really is that black and white and they go on to live productive lives and we never hear about them.

For some, they've been so mentally damaged and broken by what they've been through, they don't view the world the same as us any more, no longer by choice do they act.
Some aren't picked up on until it's far too late.

Some are like watching a ticking time bomb, sadly quite a few big institutions that housed these types were shut down, in favour of community housing.

Some are just down right evil, born evil, choose to be evil and live amongst us, which will have nothing to do with status, race nor anything else bandied about.

I know one thing for sure, the answers ain't on KB.

[Coolz]

We need one of those psychological torture camps like the one yanks throw terrorists into. A bit of intense therapy till they realise the fault lies with them and not society and when they stop feeling sorry for themselves and feel a genuine remorse for their victims then they will be ready to start their prison sentance.

[Akzle]

I'm sick of your crap like this ...

a) a society is legally defined. "new zealand is under the jurisdiction of crown legislation"
- i do not fit the legal definition. therefore, legally, i am not part of your society. and since you're a good law abiding cunt, that's the end of that.

b) i do not "do nothing"

c) i put it to you to provide an interpretation of anarchism, which, it so happens, isn't at all what i'm after or proponing.
c-i) your suspicion has completely missed the mark, but please, elaborate on "my misinterpretation of anarchism"

d) i'm actually fairly removed, by choice, from "what happens in YOUR country"
d-i) by what right do you claim this to be YOUR country?
d-ii) at what point in time was i consulted on how, where and when they build roads?
d-iii) would you prefer i took a tank everywhere, but instead of using roads, rolled over "private land"?
d-iv) again. seriously. who gave you this country? or the right to make decisions about it? who gave you the right to dictate how anyone ese should live?

e) : b)


You forget that planet Akzle, though it shares a common physical location, is a parallel universe.
see. this guy gets it.

[Drew]

they don't view the world the same as us any more, no longer by choice do they act.Right there luv, is where ya lost me.



I know one thing for sure, the answers ain't on KB.This is where ya won me back over.

[Genestho]

Right there luv, is where ya lost me.


This is where ya won me back over.
Mmmm it's interesting.
I read quite a bit of stuff; research, books and reports, have become privy to stuff, been through and seen stuff particularly in the social and welfare sector - both sides, and then of course the Justice sector - the more knowledge I glean, the more I understand, the less I know. Fiddle dee dee potayto's.

[Drew]

Mmmm it's interesting.
I read quite a bit of stuff; research, books and reports, have become privy to stuff, been through and seen stuff particularly in the social and welfare sector - both sides, and then of course the Justice sector - the more knowledge I glean, the more I understand, the less I know. Fiddle dee dee potayto's.

I'll debate the merits of your way in person some time, I cannot try and make a serious point on the internet. It goes against my religion.

[Edbear]

I'll debate the merits of your way in person some time, I cannot try and make a serious point on the internet. It goes against my religion.

It goes against the way of the internet, too...

[Banditbandit]

Worse still it gets offered as a defense:brick::brick:not sure whats worse,someone actually using the fact that there old man bum fucked them as an excuse to do it to a child or a justice system that listens to it and gives them a limp wristed sentence because of it.


Think you mis read my post,i dont accept that because its done to me it gives me a reason to do it to others,far from it.As for the reasons it happens,its not rocket science eh and i dont need an army of well intentioned social workers coming up with a different reason each week as to why it happens.It happens because theres a heap of fuck ups out there,money:killingmewhats that got to do with abusing a kid?nothing at all,social enviroment:pinch:again a load of tripe.Head outta the sand eh all the govt depts full of whoever with whatever degrees in anything wont change a thing,they have all been around forever but has it made any difference?.Cant shoot the fuck ups so whats next then?


We need one of those psychological torture camps like the one yanks throw terrorists into. A bit of intense therapy till they realise the fault lies with them and not society and when they stop feeling sorry for themselves and feel a genuine remorse for their victims then they will be ready to start their prison sentance.

OK .. you seem to accept that a persona who has been abused (sexually or physically) as a child is likely to become an abuser ...

I am sugesting that "it si societies fault" .. I am not sugegsting that it is the "social environment" ... I am suggesting adult personal responsibility ... but I am also sugegstign that we do something to stop the innocent victims becoming the abuser ...

So ... some innocent little boy of five years old goes to bed one night .. and his father arrives two hours later and sodomizes him ... through no actions of the child's - totally the father's fault.

This goes on at least once a week for three years, when at the age of eight years someone notices there is something wrong and there is an investigation ... and the father is proved to have raped his son for three years ... Now we take out the father and shoot him ...

What do we do with the innocent victim?

There is a good chance he will become an abuser ... we know that ... This has nothing do with money (No idea why you might suggest that 98tls) ... he is psychologically scared - etc etc ...

How do we deal with this boy? If we do nothing then abuse will continue - the innocent 5-year-old will grow up to be an abuser - at which point we shoot him - and leave his victin to become another abuser ... at eight-years-old we feel sorry for the abused child - at 25 we call him a perp and shoto him .. same person ...

And no, we do not subject him to aversion therapy - that's just another form of abuse and it does not work.

There is something wrong with doing it that way ...

I am not offering this to excuse the behaviour .. I am offering this as a way out of the trap - a trap that your violent solutions will not release ...

I agree that adult abusers should be shot - they are beyond help - it's too late for them ... the five-year-old boy about to be abused tonite by his father is not beyond help .. but he will be if nothing is done for him ...

[imdying]

How do we deal with this boy?Unfortunately we have to whack him too. It's not nice, but long term it's the safest solution... and here in NZ, we need the government to keep us safe.

[Banditbandit]

Unfortunately we have to whack him too. It's not nice, but long term it's the safest solution... and here in NZ, we need the government to keep us safe.

See ... I don't agree ... there are better solutions . and hitting an abused child just perpetrates the abuse .. the child leanrs it is all right to hit others ... and continues the abuse

[oneofsix]

See ... I don't agree ... there are better solutions . and hitting an abused child just perpetrates the abuse .. the child leanrs it is all right to hit others ... and continues the abuse

Are there better solutions? really? I do hope so but no one seems to have them even though a lot will tell you they exist. Do they cost too much or take society to actually care rather than being a lynch mob?

[Banditbandit]

Are there better solutions? really? I do hope so but no one seems to have them even though a lot will tell you they exist. Do they cost too much or take society to actually care rather than being a lynch mob?

Yeah .. they take society to actually care ... and I know . that's difficult for most people here ..

But people care about our child abuse rate ... to stop child abuse they need to care about the actual victims ... not just the statistics .. becuase it is the victims who generally become the abusers ... and as soon as you say that the fucktards says "stop making excuses .."

[oneofsix]

Yeah .. they take society to actually care ... and I know . that's difficult for most people here ..

But people care about our child abuse rate ... to stop child abuse they need to care about the actual victims ... not just the statistics .. becuase it is the victims who generally become the abusers ... and as soon as you say that the fucktards says "stop making excuses .."

Lots of individuals care but to get them together to care is the problem, especially in today's thinking that the govt takes the taxes for this, holds the purse strings and is governed by statistics. Also the individuals get fed conflicting information. Guess this why those that do something and succeed are held up as good citizens. Also you get the situation where those that would give a damn don't tend to circulate with these creeps that cause the problems and those that do circulate with them will not "nark"

[imdying]

Sorry, by 'whack' I meant exterminate.

[Banditbandit]

Sorry, by 'whack' I meant exterminate.

http://images.roflposters.com/images/rofl/thumbs/1296597489.1296597493.jpg.thumb.jpg

[imdying]

4,444,444. We already know that the downfall of humanity will be over populating ourselves. We know we can't fix the broken ones, so that only leaves one alternative. Or we could let them grow into offenders... but given that's what we do now, and it doesn't work, why not give my way a go?

[Banditbandit]

We know we can't fix the broken ones,

I don't agree .. there are some who can be fixed ... we have to at least try ..

There wil be several people here who have been "fixed" .. i.e. come from backgrounds that produce offenders but who have not become offenders ...

We have to try ... otherwise we wil never stop the offender/victim/offender/victim cycle - and we wil just contunually be killing off the victim/offenders ... Gas ovens anyone?

[imdying]

I don't agree .. there are some who can be fixed ... we have to at least try .. It's too dangerous to hope that they might be some of the few, thus safer for society as a whole if we cull them when we've got them identified.


We have to try ... otherwise we wil never stop the offender/victim/offender/victim cycle - and we wil just contunually be killing off the victim/offendersNo, we do not. I don't think we'll ever stop it, but we'll definitely thin the numbers. Yes it'll be a continuous cull, but if the alternative is a lottery as to whether past offenders will reoffend, or victims will become offenders themselves, that's probably not bad value for money. As evocative as 'gas oven' is, surely there are more efficient methods.

[jasonu]

Sorry, by 'whack' I meant exterminate.

You're being a retard

[Banditbandit]

You're being a retard

Unlikely .. more likely he's trolling ... he's good at that ...

[oneofsix]

You're being a retard

using his theory would could deal with those by shooting them too :yes:

This method works too; http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/7893752/Boy-killed-Nazi-father-to-stop-abuse

[Banditbandit]

using his theory would could deal with those by shooting them too :yes:

This method works too; http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/7893752/Boy-killed-Nazi-father-to-stop-abuse

Yes .. that stops the abuse ... but creates one 12 year old with a few issues ... I hope the poor little shit gets through it ... but other kids like this get pretty fucked up ...

[oneofsix]

Yes .. that stops the abuse ... but creates one 12 year old with a few issues ... I hope the poor little shit gets through it ... but other kids like this get pretty fucked up ...

yes or has he solved most of his issues. Perhaps he is on the road to recovery having recognized the abuse wasn't right and set out to stop it. Now "the system" can abuse him or help him.

[oldrider]

"Welfare State" - pffft!

This is a crime against "the child" and the "Welfare state" and we, the silent majority just stand back and wail on KB!

Nothing of any consequence will be done about it and the same outrage will be voiced about the next one ... probably within the week!

We could start by making Judges "really" accountable for their decisions! :brick:

[Akzle]

We could start by making Judges "really" accountable for their decisions! :brick:

no. :nono: we couldn't. the government represents you lot, ie makes decisions for you.
the court system is "an independant judiciary"
it's unconstitutional for you, (via your government), to make decisions concerning the actions/inactions of the court.

cool game huh?

don't forget to vote!

[oneofsix]

no. :nono: we couldn't. the government represents you lot, ie makes decisions for you.
the court system is "an independant judiciary"
it's unconstitutional for you, (via your government), to make decisions concerning the actions/inactions of the court.

cool game huh?

don't forget to vote!

like the govt you confuse their duty with ours. They do it because they want the power.

They are elected to represent us but we are still free to make our own decisions and that is very constitutional. It is unconstitutional for them not to represent our wishes.

However as to what is usual ...

[Winston001]

Nothing of any consequence will be done about it and the same outrage will be voiced about the next one ... probably within the week!


Dunno John, hopefully we are moving in the right direction. Paula Bennet has taken on the hard ask and proposed sharing of data for at risk children. That's been a big No No for decades and I expect Labour will be against it. Sharing data raises suspicions of Big Brother and State control - at least in some peoples minds.

And to be fair, we've seen some awful slippage of confidential information lately from ACC and the Ministry of Social Development.

Still, I think that risk is tiny and acceptable if social services, hospitals, doctors, and police can all link up to identify disfunctional families and their sad wee children. I'd add schools in there too - teachers daily see signs of abuse and neglect.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/7799937/Rescuing-vulnerable-kids-Bennetts-master-plan

[Ocean1]

Paula Bennet has taken on the hard ask and proposed sharing of data for at risk children.

Pretty much every health professional and social worker has been operating under compulsary disclosure protocols for the last decade. What's changing, and to what end?

[98tls]

OK .. you seem to accept that a persona who has been abused (sexually or physically) as a child is likely to become an abuser ...

I am sugesting that "it si societies fault" .. I am not sugegsting that it is the "social environment" ... I am suggesting adult personal responsibility ... but I am also sugegstign that we do something to stop the innocent victims becoming the abuser ...

So ... some innocent little boy of five years old goes to bed one night .. and his father arrives two hours later and sodomizes him ... through no actions of the child's - totally the father's fault.

This goes on at least once a week for three years, when at the age of eight years someone notices there is something wrong and there is an investigation ... and the father is proved to have raped his son for three years ... Now we take out the father and shoot him ...

What do we do with the innocent victim?

There is a good chance he will become an abuser ... we know that ... This has nothing do with money (No idea why you might suggest that 98tls) ... he is psychologically scared - etc etc ...

How do we deal with this boy? If we do nothing then abuse will continue - the innocent 5-year-old will grow up to be an abuser - at which point we shoot him - and leave his victin to become another abuser ... at eight-years-old we feel sorry for the abused child - at 25 we call him a perp and shoto him .. same person ...

And no, we do not subject him to aversion therapy - that's just another form of abuse and it does not work.

There is something wrong with doing it that way ...

I am not offering this to excuse the behaviour .. I am offering this as a way out of the trap - a trap that your violent solutions will not release ...

I agree that adult abusers should be shot - they are beyond help - it's too late for them ... the five-year-old boy about to be abused tonite by his father is not beyond help .. but he will be if nothing is done for him ...

Accept,:clap:Thats about it eh,NZs bird should be an Ostrich.Your posts are indeed interesting and well put,i wish you all the best in an obviously heartfelt quest but the sooner you start spitting the sand out of your eyes the better off.

[98tls]

Just a thought since your hell bent on the sins of the father shite,head down to your local courthouse on any given day and listen to "why are you appearing before me on your 18th drink driving conviction" the regular answer being "my father was an alcoholic".To say someone thats been abused is likely to be an abuser is :weird:howd you work that out?cause every shithead facing conviction for such a thing says to the army of otherwise unemployable social workers "my father did it to me",you accept that...:lol::lol:

[Drew]

Just a thought since your hell bent on the sins of the father shite,head down to your local courthouse on any given day and listen to "why are you appearing before me on your 18th drink driving conviction" the regular answer being "my father was an alcoholic".To say someone thats been abused is likely to be an abuser is :weird:howd you work that out?cause every shithead facing conviction for such a thing says to the army of otherwise unemployable social workers "my father did it to me",you accept that...:lol::lol:The drinking example you are giving, is completely different and you know it.

[98tls]

The drinking example you are giving, is completely different and you know it.

Actually i believe its not.Theres plenty out there that didnt have a fairytale childhood,so what?How anyone can suggest thats a reason for anything is part of the problem.Simple really.

[Drew]

Actually i believe its not.Theres plenty out there that didnt have a fairytale childhood,so what?How anyone can suggest thats a reason for anything is part of the problem.Simple really.

I agree, that going all cotton wool and cuddles isn't going to help. But a drink driver saying it's because his father was a drunk, is an excuse and the offender knows it.

But people that have been abused sexually, are ashamed of it to a degree you and I cannot imagine. It doesn't give them an out, or a reason to do the same to someone else of course. I'm just saying I've never heard of someone actually freely admitting it as an excuse either.

[98tls]

I agree, that going all cotton wool and cuddles isn't going to help. But a drink driver saying it's because his father was a drunk, is an excuse and the offender knows it.

But people that have been abused sexually, are ashamed of it to a degree you and I cannot imagine. It doesn't give them an out, or a reason to do the same to someone else of course. I'm just saying I've never heard of someone actually freely admitting it as an excuse either.

When you say "you and i cant imagine" it makes me think back,sorry fella i cant remember you being there.

[Drew]

When you say "you and i cant imagine" it makes me think back,sorry fella i cant remember you being there.Well, this is awkward!

[98tls]

Well, this is awkward!

Turn the light out.

[Winston001]

Pretty much every health professional and social worker has been operating under compulsary disclosure protocols for the last decade. What's changing, and to what end?

Dunno, its outside my knowledge. But Paula Bennett wouldn't be proposing it (and getting some stick) if it wasn't a new idea. I think at present Social Welfare are the only ones who receive the info, not other doctors, hospitals, and police. If a central data base is built up, those families who move around won't be able to hide their kids.

[Drew]

Turn the light out.Couldn't I just sit some place else on the bus?

[mashman]

Is it normal for kids to be abused? Society says no, some people beg to differ for what reason I have absolutely no idea. Is it the feeling of power? Is it just to get their rocks off? Is it normal? Perhaps all of the above and many many more. For every incident we hear about I dread to think about what those kids are going through that we don't hear about. After all, it isn't just the ones who get caught that are the abusers and/or the abused, so you can be fairly sure that some kids will grow up in a family situation where fuckin kids over in some way or another (in terms of how we perceive it) is a view that isn't necessarily shared by the kids. In fact it may seem perfectly normal to them as they are kids, they know no better. Add the threat of violence/emotional blackmail/love/denial etc... and it is quite possible to see how some individuals may well see these sorts of acts as acceptable behaviour and carry the "tradition" on into their lives. We call them abusers/thugs/deviants/pedophiles/uncle/dad/friend. Whether they know differently or not is very much up for debate, as are the reasons that they justify their behaviour. No doubt in plenty of cases they do know different and are potentially acting on some form of monkey see monkey do level... but I have no doubt that in too many cases they don't understand that it is wrong to mistreat kids/adults in such a way. There's no thick and fast rule that fits all and all we can do is keep our eyes and ears open for those who are being mistreated. I wish it would stop. I know I can't stop it. However I hope to hell that somebody tries someday. I hope to hell that we all start backing each other up to deal with these issues, coz that's what it's going to take to even make a dent in changing the behaviour of those who hurt kids. Saying that we disapprove and that it's just plain wrong doesn't work, neither does legislating against it, we have to be able to spot the trouble first.

[Genestho]

I remember being horrified at the fact one in four women have been molested or raped at sometime in their lives, the figure was high for guys too. That's reported figures FYI.
Now that I'm older, I'm not at all surprised at how many women I know have been raped or abused. Abuse is New Zealand's dirty little secret, only it's obviously not so secret. That is a lot of abusers. What we know is abuse of any kind flourishes where it's dark and when people turn away.

[James Deuce]

We call them abusers/thugs/deviants/pedophiles/uncle/dad/friend. Don't forget "Mum". Slightly more than 50% of all violent abuse visited on children in NZ is delivered by Mum. This is why I find the White Ribbon movement repulsive. Their public role models are reformed male criminals and they actively deny the above stat. Everyone needs to get with the programme. Child abuse is wrong. So is denying help to parents who have no social support structure and are suffering from their own forms of "abuse".

[gammaguy]

Until people who commit this crime against innocent children get life that means life nothing will change.

NZ is run by a bunch of llberal people isolated from the reality of what is out there.

Until there is systemic change led by a government brave enough to make the tough decisions nothing will change

[James Deuce]

Until people who commit this crime against innocent children get life that means life nothing will change.

NZ is run by a bunch of llberal people isolated from the reality of what is out there.

Until there is systemic change led by a government brave enough to make the tough decisions nothing will change

Rubbish. It's not who is running NZ that is causing the issue, and if we're so "liberal" why do we have the second highest rates of incarceration in the developed world? Because people are dicks. Not the Government, not your Mum & Dad, not welfare dependency. People are dicks.

[scumdog]

Rubbish. It's not who is running NZ that is causing the issue, and if we're so "liberal" why do we have the second highest rates of incarceration in the developed world? Because people are dicks. Not the Government, not your Mum & Dad, not welfare dependency. People are dicks.

True.
And one of the annoying things about my job is (apart from the odd judge) nobody tells them they're dicks to their face, they're all treated/spoken to as if they're 'normal' people...:weird:

[oneofsix]

Rubbish. It's not who is running NZ that is causing the issue, and if we're so "liberal" why do we have the second highest rates of incarceration in the developed world? Because people are dicks. Not the Government, not your Mum & Dad, not welfare dependency. People are dicks.

Because you mention NZ's incarceration rate presumably by people you therefore mean the people of NZ and I think you are wrong. The reason there is the anger of people like gammaguy, scummy, yourself and myself at this sort of stuff is that on the whole the people no longer accept it, never did at that level just some smart-arse lawyers were able to flim flam some dumb-arse judges into allowing the section 5?. There are some knuckle draggers, (and some of them wear business suits, live in flash houses and drive flash cars), amongst us that haven't caught up, often because they think they can excuse themselves from society through ignorance or arrogance.

[Akzle]

Until there is systemic change led by a government brave enough to make the tough decisions nothing will change

here's the problem. everyone's waiting to be led by the government.

well, it's worked so far innit?

[oneofsix]

here's the problem. everyone's waiting to be led by the government.

well, it's worked so far innit?

everyone??? but that would include you and please don't speak for me.

[Banditbandit]

Just a thought since your hell bent on the sins of the father shite,head down to your local courthouse on any given day and listen to "why are you appearing before me on your 18th drink driving conviction" the regular answer being "my father was an alcoholic".To say someone thats been abused is likely to be an abuser is :weird:howd you work that out?cause every shithead facing conviction for such a thing says to the army of otherwise unemployable social workers "my father did it to me",you accept that...:lol::lol:

Mate - I have sat in the court rooms of this country for so fucking long .. adn I am sick of the bukllshit - from both the offenders and the lawyers - prosecuting and defence .. all lawyers ..

I've heard it all .. and I am not caught uop in the bullshit the offenders put out there ... Shoot the fuckers ... the sooner the better ...

But unfortunately shooting the fuckers only stops that person committing crimes - to stop crimes occuring we need other measures ... Shooting the fuckers is an ambulance at the bottom of the cliff answer - it works for the immediate problem but does not solve much long term ...

[Banditbandit]

Dunno, its outside my knowledge. But Paula Bennett wouldn't be proposing it (and getting some stick) if it wasn't a new idea.

Yeah .. Naa bro .. Paula Bennett never had an original idea ... she's just pushing this bullshit because it sounds good .. but it has not worked in practice ...

[Banditbandit]

Until people who commit this crime against innocent children get life that means life nothing will change.



That's crap man .. The US has life sentences (and longer) and has one of the highest crime rates in the world .. the US has a death penalty for murder - that does not stop murders .. adn a high rate of them at that ...

Yes - it might stop the person sentenced to death from committing another murder - but there are plenty more people out there committing murders ..

Detterents only stop good people ... they don't stop crims.

[Paul in NZ]

Oh dear god....

The mother of a two-year-old allegedly murdered by her former partner has told a court she didn't get the toddler medical attention for four days, despite him having a broken arm.

Josephine Lawrence told the High Court at Auckland today she knew her son's arm was broken but was "wasted'' and didn't want the authorities to take her son away.

Ms Lawrence's former partner Joel Loffley is alleged to have murdered her son James Joseph Ruhe Lawrence - known as JJ - while he looked after him at their family home in the Auckland suburb of Orakei in November last year.

Loffley has denied the charge.

Under cross-examination from Loffley's lawyer Roger Chambers, Ms Lawrence told the court Loffley had suggested calling an ambulance when they found JJ with a broken arm.

"I said no, because I was too wasted and didn't want them to be taken off me at hospital.''

She said she took JJ to her local clinic when it reopened four days later.

Ms Lawrence also told the court her son was subjected to cannabis smoke through much of his life.

"Joel used to give him spots ... I probably would have blown smoke in his face but that's about it.''

She also confirmed she had smoked methamphetamine and taken ecstasy but said the drugs had come from Loffley.

Poor little bugger never stood a chance.... How many more like him are out there you have to wonder?? THIS is why pensioners get beaten up in home invasions....

sigh...

[oneofsix]

well now she has lost him for ever. But does show what happens when you get too punitive, she was afraid to involve authorities, even the ambos, in case big bad CYFS stepped in so instead of getting help she gets a trial. Don't feel sorry for her so much as the poor little kid that had to suffer and die because of this.

[GTRMAN]

well now she has lost him for ever. But does show what happens when you get too punitive, she was afraid to involve authorities, even the ambos, in case big bad CYFS stepped in so instead of getting help she gets a trial. Don't feel sorry for her so much as the poor little kid that had to suffer and die because of this.

If she was afraid that someone would take her child away, wouldn't that lead you to think maybe she knew there were problems with her parenting? She could have chosen to do something.... can someone explain how leaving a child with a broken arm because you are afraid of having the child taken away can in any way be considered a rational thought?

[Drew]

well now she has lost him for ever. But does show what happens when you get too punitive, she was afraid to involve authorities, even the ambos, in case big bad CYFS stepped in so instead of getting help she gets a trial. Don't feel sorry for her so much as the poor little kid that had to suffer and die because of this.Oh fuck off! Go easy on people, so they will admit their faults?

The people I want to share society with, (sorry Akzel, you can live next door and barter food with us though, have you considered declaring your land a republic?), are the ones who even though they're gonna have to pay for it, will admit their fuck ups. I make mistakes, I face them and any accusers head high, and move on. It's called life.

[Paul in NZ]

If she was afraid that someone would take her child away, wouldn't that lead you to think maybe she knew there were problems with her parenting? She could have chosen to do something.... can someone explain how leaving a child with a broken arm because you are afraid of having the child taken away can in any way be considered a rational thought?

Chances are she had elements of this in her own upbringing making this family a huge great snowball of pain and disaster rolling down the slopes of society.... The mess just getting bigger and more dangerous as time goes by....

[Banditbandit]

In my experience the best defence that we have against the crims is that the crims are pretty fucking DUMB. And I mean truly DUMB.

The above is a great example of just how DUMB.

[oneofsix]

If she was afraid that someone would take her child away, wouldn't that lead you to think maybe she knew there were problems with her parenting? She could have chosen to do something.... can someone explain how leaving a child with a broken arm because you are afraid of having the child taken away can in any way be considered a rational thought?

Yes but she still wanted to keep the kid. Like I said no sympathy for her. Understand I do, fucked up she is. Never said she was rational but then again what we humans call love is never thought of as rational and I bet she would have said she loved the kid :wacko:

Sooo when you try to use logical rational methods of dealing with these people you will fail because they aren't rational but instead have carzy emotional ties. Why the F would you stay with a guy that you are afraid will bet you if you take the kid to the bank with you? Got to be irrational, emotional crazy shit.

[GTRMAN]

Yes but she still wanted to keep the kid. Like I said no sympathy for her. Understand I do, fucked up she is. Never said she was rational but then again what we humans call love is never thought of as rational and I bet she would have said she loved the kid :wacko:

Sooo when you try to use logical rational methods of dealing with these people you will fail because they aren't rational but instead have carzy emotional ties. Why the F would you stay with a guy that you are afraid will bet you if you take the kid to the bank with you? Got to be irrational, emotional crazy shit.


Big difference between 'want' and 'should' Who was looking out for the child?

[Drew]

Big difference between 'want' and 'should' Who was looking out for the child?Seriously though, your avatar is a shot from the movie 'Krull' aye?

I'm not obsessive compulsive, shit just bugs me sometimes.

[oneofsix]

Big difference between 'want' and 'should' Who was looking out for the child?

true. If she had taken him to the hospital then what? What happened when she took him to the medical centre 4 days later? That should have been an even bigger risk than taking him to the hospital immediately except of course she was no longer wasted but a 4 day old break in a small kid should have had alarm bells ringing loudly. I need medical person to refute that assumption I guess.

[Drew]

true. If she had taken him to the hospital then what? What happened when she took him to the medical centre 4 days later? That should have been an even bigger risk than taking him to the hospital immediately except of course she was no longer wasted but a 4 day old break in a small kid should have had alarm bells ringing loudly. I need medical person to refute that assumption I guess.
It's not uncommon for parents to genuinely not realise children have broken arms. The pain is quite bareable if there is no displacement in the bones, and even when there is, it aint that bad. Four days after the fact probably doesn't raise an eyebrow, provided the mother or father that brings the kid in, doesn't look strung out to fuck, and incapable of a coherant story.

So, we shant go blaming the health proffessionals, because a lot of them are fuckin near ready to go on a killing spree they're so frustrated with the system that ties their hands.

[azzanuts]

I hope that fucken punk gets fucked over by the screws. Better still, he should be delt with by the public. I'd be right at the front.

[yungatart]

true. If she had taken him to the hospital then what? What happened when she took him to the medical centre 4 days later? That should have been an even bigger risk than taking him to the hospital immediately except of course she was no longer wasted but a 4 day old break in a small kid should have had alarm bells ringing loudly. I need medical person to refute that assumption I guess.


It's not uncommon for parents to genuinely not realise children have broken arms. The pain is quite bareable if there is no displacement in the bones, and even when there is, it aint that bad. Four days after the fact probably doesn't raise an eyebrow, provided the mother or father that brings the kid in, doesn't look strung out to fuck, and incapable of a coherant story.

So, we shant go blaming the health proffessionals, because a lot of them are fuckin near ready to go on a killing spree they're so frustrated with the system that ties their hands.

One of my kids had a broken collar bone for three weeks or so before I did anything about it. He was a tough little nut. He only complained when it was bath time. Bath time was followed pretty quickly by bed time, silly me just thought he wanted to be outside enjoying daylight saving and playing in the sunshine.
The reality was, of course, that it hurt when he lifted up his arms to have his t shirt taken off...the rest of the time he coped with the pain, and never complained.

[98tls]

Rubbish. It's not who is running NZ that is causing the issue, and if we're so "liberal" why do we have the second highest rates of incarceration in the developed world? Because people are dicks. Not the Government, not your Mum & Dad, not welfare dependency. People are dicks.

Finally.......

[98tls]

Mate - I have sat in the court rooms of this country for so fucking long .. adn I am sick of the bukllshit - from both the offenders and the lawyers - prosecuting and defence .. all lawyers ..

I've heard it all .. and I am not caught uop in the bullshit the offenders put out there ... Shoot the fuckers ... the sooner the better ...

But unfortunately shooting the fuckers only stops that person committing crimes - to stop crimes occuring we need other measures ... Shooting the fuckers is an ambulance at the bottom of the cliff answer - it works for the immediate problem but does not solve much long term ...

Fair call.I to feel your pain.What next though?

[GTRMAN]

Seriously though, your avatar is a shot from the movie 'Krull' aye?

I'm not obsessive compulsive, shit just bugs me sometimes.


Nah Dude, Dune

[Kickaha]

Fair call.I to feel your pain.What next though?

We look at the families with at risk kids and shoot them to

[GTRMAN]

It's not uncommon for parents to genuinely not realise children have broken arms. The pain is quite bareable if there is no displacement in the bones, and even when there is, it aint that bad. Four days after the fact probably doesn't raise an eyebrow, provided the mother or father that brings the kid in, doesn't look strung out to fuck, and incapable of a coherant story.

So, we shant go blaming the health proffessionals, because a lot of them are fuckin near ready to go on a killing spree they're so frustrated with the system that ties their hands.

But in this instance she declined the calling of an ambulance, had to be bad enough to think about it. And the consequences...

[Drew]

We look at the families with at risk kids and shoot them to

I'll bring the beer... And coke for the fags.

[98tls]

We look at the families with at risk kids and shoot them to

Fire away mate,the way its going some genius in the future will come up with said option though once again late.

[GTRMAN]

I say throw more money at plunket, make it mandatory, up the required visit numbers, encourage good parenting from the get go. Catch problems before they get out of hand.

Might not work but it has to be worth a try...

[007XX]

Nah Dude, Dune

Drew, seriously?? The Atreides rule the Spice man, hence the blue eyes.

[James Deuce]

I say throw more money at plunket, make it mandatory, up the required visit numbers, encourage good parenting from the get go. Catch problems before they get out of hand.

Might not work but it has to be worth a try...

They are utterly useless when it comes to dealing with proper abuse and real medical issues, as well as utterly refusing to deal with special needs kids. It would require an organisational culture change to get Plunket to do what they were formed to do in the first place now.

[98tls]

I say throw more money at plunket, make it mandatory, up the required visit numbers, encourage good parenting from the get go. Catch problems before they get out of hand.

Might not work but it has to be worth a try...

Back in the day i remember Plunket showing up with little white pills.these days.....

[GTRMAN]

They are utterly useless when it comes to dealing with proper abuse and real medical issues, as well as utterly refusing to deal with special needs kids. It would require an organisational culture change to get Plunket to do what they were formed to do in the first place now.

Sure change culture, but if the mission is to support and encourage good parenting you are at least building a fence at the top of the cliff, rather than buying a bigger ambulance.

[Ocean1]

They are utterly useless when it comes to dealing with proper abuse and real medical issues, as well as utterly refusing to deal with special needs kids. It would require an organisational culture change to get Plunket to do what they were formed to do in the first place now.

Like, actually funding them?

Jeez, dude, pretty radical...

[GTRMAN]

Another idea (just to keep Drew happy)

Contraceptives in the water supply, no one is allowed the antidote until they can prove they are willing and capable to be a good parent...

[James Deuce]

Like, actually funding them?

Jeez, dude, pretty radical...
Nope, I'd like to see any public funding for Plunket stopped. They're a pointless middle-class institution that takes money from the health system and has no measurable outcome. Except what they tell you they did.

[James Deuce]

Another idea (just to keep Drew happy)

Contraceptives in the water supply, no one is allowed the antidote until they can prove they are willing and capable to be a good parent...
Fascist. Your definition of good parenting isn't the same as the rest of the world's.

[GTRMAN]

Fascist. Your definition of good parenting isn't the same as the rest of the world's.


Sweet as, you set the criteria then....

[Ocean1]

Nope, I'd like to see any public funding for Plunket stopped. They're a pointless middle-class institution that takes money from the health system and has no measurable outcome. Except what they tell you they did.

Chicken/Egg. I believe Plunket's public funding was pulled a decade ago, and more.

Before which you had the remains of skilled and functional service.

[Edbear]

Chicken/Egg. I believe Plunket's public funding was pulled a decade ago, and more.

Before which you had the remains of skilled and functional service.

Plunket services were good when our kids were little. The Plunket Nurse was helpful and caring.

[scumdog]

Fascist. Your definition of good parenting isn't the same as the rest of the world's.

When you're paying for bad parenting I guess you're entitled to call the shots...

[James Deuce]

Before which you had the remains of skilled and functional service.

Err, no, you had a philosophy of "well-child" support. There was very little in the way of skill or function, and Plunket hasn't had any real role except weighing, measuring and telling people they're doing it wrong since the '60s.

[GTRMAN]

Err, no, you had a philosophy of "well-child" support. There was very little in the way of skill or function, and Plunket hasn't had any real role except weighing, measuring and telling people they're doing it wrong since the '60s.


Then what ethos would you have it have?

Build it up dude, make it part of the solution rather than the problem

[98tls]

:nono::niceone:..........<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/QZZ_yYtGe5s" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>Tui ad possibly,christ it made me cringe then,its like a fucking comedy skit these days.

[mashman]

http://www.textually.org/ringtonia/archives/images/set3/77885-Zippo.jpg

[Ocean1]

Err, no, you had a philosophy of "well-child" support. There was very little in the way of skill or function, and Plunket hasn't had any real role except weighing, measuring and telling people they're doing it wrong since the '60s.

Hmmm. My experience of them was largely one of a helpfull and competent body of health professionals. No doubt the service varies with the local personnel.

[Road kill]

Another idea (just to keep Drew happy)

Contraceptives in the water supply, no one is allowed the antidote until they can prove they are willing and capable to be a good parent...

A black market in the antidote would develope an we'd see raids on gang houses for selling it to the pheasants on TV every thursday night on One

Plus other things, like state controlled breeding,,,that's some scary shit.

[GTRMAN]

A black market in the antidote would develope an we'd see raids on gang houses for selling it to the pheasants on TV every thursday night on One

Plus other things, like state controlled breeding,,,that's some scary shit.

Yeah I know, but Drew blinged me for being too sensible so thought I should throw out something a little less so.....:niceone:

[Winston001]

Err, no, you had a philosophy of "well-child" support. There was very little in the way of skill or function, and Plunket hasn't had any real role except weighing, measuring and telling people they're doing it wrong since the '60s.

Err...No.

Our first child was 7 weeks premature and after the month in hospital, Plunket was a lifeline for us. Phone help at 3 am.

[Drew]

Another idea (just to keep Drew happy)

Contraceptives in the water supply, no one is allowed the antidote until they can prove they are willing and capable to be a good parent...I like the idea. It'd never happen in my lifetime though.

It'd thin the herd a bit too, what with all the kids dying of aids because they use NO protection instead of teh woefully little that is in use now.

[Akzle]

I hope that fucken punk gets fucked over by the screws. Better still, he should be delt with by the public. I'd be right at the front.

i reckon. bring back the pillory and stiles. true democratic justice. by the people

[Drew]

i reckon. bring back the pillory and stiles. true democratic justice. by the people
That's not democracy bro, it's sport.

[Akzle]

Nope, I'd like to see any public funding for Plunket stopped. They're a pointless middle-class institution that takes money from the health system and has no measurable outcome. Except what they tell you they did.

funny story... had one of their "nurses" come round. saw a gun hanging on the wall, said "i don't like guns" i basically told her tough shit, STFU.

had a couple of cops turn up a day or two later "we hear you have guns in the house"
"you know i do, dipshits, tits or GTFO" (they GTFO). waste of my fucken time.

[Akzle]

oh, meanwhile the plunket b*tch watched the girl loose weight over a month or so until the point she was actually emaciated and we had to take her to hospital.

then when we took her out of hospital (cos they weren't doing fuckall) we were referred to CYFS (on the sly), for not following the doctor's reccomendation to keep her in hospital, while they weren't doing anything we couldn't at home.

so. no. my vote is un-plunket. and fuck the government.

[azzanuts]

That's not democracy bro, it's sport.

Nothing wrong with sports mate.

[GTRMAN]

funny story... had one of their "nurses" come round. saw a gun hanging on the wall, said "i don't like guns" i basically told her tough shit, STFU.

had a couple of cops turn up a day or two later "we hear you have guns in the house"
"you know i do, dipshits, tits or GTFO" (they GTFO). waste of my fucken time.

So are you admitting to having a firearms licence Akzle? Seems very conformist of you. little quote from the police website... "Safe firearms storage

Firearms must be stored in the manner set out in the Arms Regulations. All licence holders must install security at their home, regardless of whether or not they actually posess any firearms.
Security requirements are particularly strict for dealers and for licence holders who possess pistols, restricted weapons or military style semi-automatics (MSSAs).


You must never put a firearm where a child could reach it.
You must store firearms and ammunition separate or disable the firearms, or both.
You must keep your firearms unloaded and locked away in a cupboard or storeroom.



oh, meanwhile the plunket b*tch watched the girl loose weight over a month or so until the point she was actually emaciated and we had to take her to hospital.



then when we took her out of hospital (cos they weren't doing fuckall) we were referred to CYFS (on the sly), for not following the doctor's reccomendation to keep her in hospital, while they weren't doing anything we couldn't at home.

so. no. my vote is un-plunket. and fuck the government.

So did you take your child to the doctor of you own accord or just wait for the plunket nurse to tell you what to do?

[Banditbandit]

Seriously though, your avatar is a shot from the movie 'Krull' aye?




Nah Dude, Dune

It's from that really fucked up version of the story by David Lynch isn't it?

[GTRMAN]

It's from that really fucked up version of the story by David Lynch isn't it?

You say fucked up, I say classic... but yes.

[Banditbandit]

You say fucked up, I say classic... but yes.

Have you ever read the books?

[GTRMAN]

Have you ever read the books?


Yep, the movie, though very good in it's own right, doesn't really do justice to the depth and colour of the book series.

[Akzle]

So are you admitting to having a firearms licence Akzle? ...

You must never put a firearm where a child could reach it.
You must store firearms and ammunition separate or disable the firearms, or both.
You must keep your firearms unloaded and locked away in a cupboard or storeroom.


So did you take your child to the doctor of you own accord or just wait for the plunket nurse to tell you what to do?
1) no, this was years ago. they took the license when i split with the mother.. (court drama and all, despite having no grounds) it was after that i stopped spending money on licensing and put it towards guns and ammo.

(have had 3 AOS call outs since, and retained all my guns.)

2) it was in a gunrack on my lounge wall, where i like to keep my guns - handy.

3) your reading comprehension is a bit short today innit? i'm pretty sure i said "we" (that would be the mother and i) took her to hospital... and i thought i'd thrown in enough adjectives to convey that the plunket bitch was a useless one....

[Ocean1]

Yep, the movie, though very good in it's own right, doesn't really do justice to the depth and colour of the book series.

Man, that's a hell of an understatement.

[007XX]

Nope, I'd like to see any public funding for Plunket stopped. They're a pointless middle-class institution that takes money from the health system and has no measurable outcome. Except what they tell you they did.

Couldn't agree more. Most are bigoted halfwit who confuse young women no end. Their bully tactics in regards to the "breast is best" methodology are absolutely shocking for example.

When I had my son 15 years ago, I gave in to having one of those harridan come to visit me because, having no other female friend for guidance, I figured it was the right thing to do.

I fired that dried up old tart after she grabbed my boob to "make me express milk properly" and actually hurt me. I was livid! 20 years old only maybe, but not completely stupid.

Needless to say, I haven't bothered using Plunket with my baby girl 3 years ago. I'm happy to report both children are thriving too.

[Edbear]

Man, that's a hell of an understatement.

KB, the very definition of "understatement."

[Drew]

KB, the very definition of "underthought."Fixed that for ya....Ya fuckin churchy mother fucker!

It's been a while since you've been targeted. I though you might be feeling neglected.

[Edbear]

Fixed that for ya....Ya fuckin churchy mother fucker!

It's been a while since you've been targeted. I though you might be feeling neglected.

Yeah, I was feeling a bit left out... I did get a red the other day from a "nobody important" for nothing in particular, so even that was a bit of a let down.

Maybe I should start a thread... :whistle:

[scumdog]

Fixed that for ya....Ya fuckin churchy mother fucker!

It's been a while since you've been targeted. I though you might be feeling neglected.

With you around THAT won't happen...:rolleyes:

[ducatilover]

Yeah, I was feeling a bit left out... I did get a red the other day from a "nobody important" for nothing in particular, so even that was a bit of a let down.

Maybe I should start a thread... :whistle:

With a poll!!!!

[Drew]

With you around THAT won't happen...:rolleyes:Man, I've upset you lately haven't I?

[scumdog]

Man, I've upset you lately haven't I?

Nah, not-even, I don't get upset - I get mildly irritated though, but only with the Akzle, Mashman CookMy Sock types.

You are, however giving the impression of being repetitively abrasive - but I guess that's you plan...

[FJRider]

Maybe I should start a thread... :whistle:

Waving threads are always popular ... ;)

[Edbear]

Man, I've upset you lately haven't I?

How unlike you..? :crazy:


With a poll!!!!

A pole waving thread! :2thumbsup

[Banditbandit]

A pole waving thread! :2thumbsup

Here's several Poles waving .. does it need a thread?

https://kurizogeorge.appspot.com/l1.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/FK.IrCxPmsV1wSTpRIdN0w--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTMxMA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en/blogs/sptusolyexperts/149496109-001.jpg

[Drew]

You are, however giving the impression of being repetitively abrasive - but I guess that's you plan...

I'm abraisive now, that I read my posts and take out most of the swearing, and genuinely try to be less abraisive?

Mutha fucka, I am a failure at everything! Bitch ex of mine was fuckin right all along...CUNT!

[schrodingers cat]

Contraceptives in the water supply,

What a great idea! I can't wait to grow my own big set of tits because of all the hormones.
If Homos ride Honda's, what do ladyboys have to ride?

[imdying]

Same as always... Italian bikes...

[Banditbandit]

If Homos ride Honda's, what do ladyboys have to ride?

Drag bikes of course ...

[azzanuts]

What a great idea! I can't wait to grow my own big set of tits because of all the hormones.
If Homos ride Honda's, what do ladyboys have to ride?

Ladyboys ride you and your mum

[schrodingers cat]

Ladyboys ride you and your mum

Aren't you in the wrong thread with your tricycle talk?
What do you ride again???

Dragbike. Lolz

[azzanuts]

Nah im in the right place, wots the matter little boy can you not read what bike I ride. HONDA and proud of it. Oh and its only tricycle talk at the mo cos I dont want your mum to fall of the back, I cant afford a bull dozer to move her outta the way of on coming traffic.
Aren't you in the wrong thread with your tricycle talk?
What do you ride again???

Dragbike. Lolz

[schrodingers cat]

No, I'm in the right place, whats the matter little boy? Can you not read what I ride? COCK and proud of it. Oh and its only tricycle talk at the moment because I don't want your mum to fall of the back. I cant afford a bulldozer to move her out of the way of on-coming traffic.

Fixed that for you. No, really, it was no problem.

Signed, Gilbert Grape

[azzanuts]

LOL it wasnt broken moron, but thanks none the less for your lame retarded effort just cos I have manners tho ok. Im just going to put your mums glass eye back in as I have just finished skull fucking the bitch.
Fixed that for you. No, really, it was no problem.

Signed, Gilbert Grape

[Banditbandit]

Nah im in the right place, wots the matter little boy can you not read what bike I ride. HONDA and proud of it. Oh and its only tricycle talk at the mo cos I dont want your mum to fall of the back, I cant afford a bull dozer to move her outta the way of on coming traffic.


LOL it wasnt broken moron, but thanks none the less for your lame retarded effort just cos I have manners tho ok. Im just going to put your mums glass eye back in as I have just finished skull fucking the bitch.

http://www.demotivationalposters.org/image/demotivational-poster/small/0811/your-prescription-medicine-chill-pill-flame-war-doris-funny-demotivational-poster-1227329366.jpg

[Edbear]

Sad how such a serious matter has been taken so far off topic and degenerated into a slanging match, but that is the way of some on KB.

The poor wee kid suffered a death that no sane person would wish upon any child and it is a reflection upon our society that this is so common. Everyone here abhors the act of so callous an individual and we should be reflecting on what we can possibly do, realistically, to help these poor kids born into such situations.

[Drew]

Sad how such a serious matter has been taken so far off topic and degenerated into a slanging match, but that is the way of some on KB.

The poor wee kid suffered a death that no sane person would wish upon any child and it is a reflection upon our society that this is so common. Everyone here abhors the act of so callous an individual and we should be reflecting on what we can possibly do, realistically, to help these poor kids born into such situations.Either start doing something about it yourself, and we'll get behind it if it's a good idea that'll get results.

Or hang around to be slagged...bitch.:yes:

[Akzle]

reflecting on what we can possibly do, realistically, to help these poor kids born into such situations.

dunno..
vote national, they're gonna get tough on it, and with plenty of cops out there to enforce the policy....

o. wait on....

you've got a problem ed. that problem is that you think these kids are born "into such situations", from your supremely white god-fearin point of view, i can only assume you to mean "such black situations" in which case you and smokey can get together, label it someone elses problem and start a witch hunt.

what needs to happen *in the real world* is a massive culture, attitude, governance, mentality shift. from "taking" to "giving" from "me" to "we".
the problem about "society" is that there isn't any. if you ask any ten men what their goals are, you'll probably get 15 answers.

if we start with the child, and, lets just hypothetically ascribe every child the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, then we need to build our SOCIETY in such a way as to achieve that. the current one isn't.


shuttup. go to work. pay your tax. your registration. your license. beg permission from the system for the miserable existence you call life. keep it going. for the kids

[Edbear]

dunno..
vote national, they're gonna get tough on it, and with plenty of cops out there to enforce the policy....

o. wait on....

you've got a problem ed. that problem is that you think these kids are born "into such situations", from your supremely white god-fearin point of view, i can only assume you to mean "such black situations" in which case you and smokey can get together, label it someone elses problem and start a witch hunt.

what needs to happen *in the real world* is a massive culture, attitude, governance, mentality shift. from "taking" to "giving" from "me" to "we".
the problem about "society" is that there isn't any. if you ask any ten men what their goals are, you'll probably get 15 answers.

if we start with the child, and, lets just hypothetically ascribe every child the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, then we need to build our SOCIETY in such a way as to achieve that. the current one isn't.


shuttup. go to work. pay your tax. your registration. your license. beg permission from the system for the miserable existence you call life. keep it going. for the kids

These kids are born into these situations, what other way is there?

You tend to make a lot of assumptions without any basis in either logic or fact. No wonder you are so screwed up.

[Edbear]

Either start doing something about it yourself, and we'll get behind it if it's a good idea that'll get results.

Or hang around to be slagged...bitch.:yes:

You mean like his nibs above?

He makes a factual point about society not being geared to protect children as it should be. All we can do is encourage neighbourliness and not blocking our ears to what goes on.

[mashman]

These kids are born into these situations, what other way is there?

You tend to make a lot of assumptions without any basis in either logic or fact. No wonder you are so screwed up.

There are other ways. Although that seems to depend on the amount of $$$ available to people in general. You can't be a vigilant neighbour if you're at work now can ya.

[Edbear]

There are other ways. Although that seems to depend on the amount of $$$ available to people in general. You can't be a vigilant neighbour if you're at work now can ya.

Most neighbours know what's going on and there are few reasons nothing is said or done. Fear of retaliation is probably the first reason but also common is a reluctance to get involved with Govt agencies due to a lack of confidence and trust in them.

I know personally, cases of abuse where the Police and the relevant Govt. agency acted entirely appropriately and handled the situation very well with empathy and discretion.

[mashman]

Most neighbours know what's going on and there are few reasons nothing is said or done. Fear of retaliation is probably the first reason but also common is a reluctance to get involved with Govt agencies due to a lack of confidence and trust in them.

I know personally, cases of abuse where the Police and the relevant Govt. agency acted entirely appropriately and handled the situation very well with empathy and discretion.

I have no doubts that there are plenty of reasons for people not interfering... and you're right that the trust just isn't there for pretty much all of those scenarios. This is where I agree with Akzle. It's going to take a shift in how we think to address these issues. To a degree the mob rule of the community (not violent mod rule though) should be sufficient to address the issue. Whilst that is will be seen as idyllic, it is something that once used to happen. Do you remember when the streets where abuzz with people chatting over the fence and kids playing in the street? The key was always the kids. We'd knock on our mates door and beg (put pressure) on his dad to let him out. Our parents knew that the father was old school, worked hard, enjoyed a drink and didn't need the hassle of wondering where his kids were. But it was us kids that got him out of the house, not the adults. There are many reasons for that not happening anymore and similar to the reasons that adults don't get involved. But if you laid your hands on another person's kids, you had the adults of the street to deal with. As you say, the trust is gone, but it'll return given the right circumstances.

We probably all know of cases where the authorities have done what we expect of them, but there are also instances where they haven't. Probably not through any real fault of their own, but the authorities can't, and shouldn't have to do everything. It takes a village to raise a kid, but the village has to know the kid first before it can have an affect. We need to move back towards having people in the streets chatting over the fence and that ain't gonna happen where they all have to put most of their energy into working hard to earn crust to provide for the kids.

[Akzle]

You mean like his nibs above?

He makes a factual point about society not being geared to protect children as it should be. All we can do is encourage neighbourliness and not blocking our ears to what goes on.


These kids are born into these situations, what other way is there?

You tend to make a lot of assumptions without any basis in either logic or fact. No wonder you are so screwed up.

1: what other way is there?
2: "all we can do is encourage..."

no son. it might be all YOU do, it's not all we CAN do.

society being geared to protect children?!?

what should they need protecting from?! they need to learn that the oven is hot and that gravity works every day of the week. the rest they can fairly safely work out for themselves. society shouldn't just be "protecting" children, it should be making people. i don't mean making citizens (perpetuating the cycle). i mean making well rounded, thinking individuals with a desire to improve shit.

these kids are born not into "these sitations" they're born into your society.
your move.

((and you call me screwed up :lol:))

[Edbear]

1: what other way is there?
2: "all we can do is encourage..."

no son. it might be all YOU do, it's not all we CAN do.

society being geared to protect children?!?

what should they need protecting from?! they need to learn that the oven is hot and that gravity works every day of the week. the rest they can fairly safely work out for themselves. society shouldn't just be "protecting" children, it should be making people. i don't mean making citizens (perpetuating the cycle). i mean making well rounded, thinking individuals with a desire to improve shit.

these kids are born not into "these sitations" they're born into your society.
your move.

((and you call me screwed up :lol:))

Like many who get it all screwed up and backwards you talk in terms of what "should be" and in ideals, ignoring the reality in front of your eyes. JJ was born into a situation that does in fact exist whether you want it to or not. The creep that killed him also actually exists. Society as we know it is a fact of life that we are subject to whether we want to delude ourselves otherwise or not.

But if it makes you feel better or superior carry on..

[Akzle]

you talk in terms of what "should be" and in ideals,
...ignoring the reality in front of your eyes. ...does in fact exist


so while everyone bemoans the society that really does exist, who's trying to make it something better?
infact, who, with this reality in front of their eyes (and as part of their society), is doing any more than moaning??
this one is already last month's news..."(oh but did you hear about the royals vist? WHO GIVE A FUCK?)
i don't know if the TAB are taking bets on how long it'll be before the next one...
wanna gamble, ed? i give it two months.

so you've got two months of reality to live ed. you've got two months to sort out your politicians, sort out your society, to prove me wrong, two months to save a kid's life...


it's no fucking ideal. my kids' wellbeing is highly ranking in my priorities. so too any other kids i encounter. all my tin foil hat preaching and moaning is with a view to changing society, to say nothing of what i do in reality.
plenty of people oppose it, their loss. plenty of people would rather keep their head down and moo than risk the government's stock-whips. that aint a fucking society. that's a fucking mess.

am i superior? probably. do i enjoy life more? definately! am i concerned about the economy: absolutely not. do i piss and moan about a child being beten to death in a society i'm not part of? no. do i want that society to change, so as not for more children beaten to death? yes.


...two months.

[PrincessBandit]

Wow, it's fascinating to see how this thread has developed.
While we're at it (being rather off-topic), my experiences of Plunket were great. It doesn't take much brain power to work out that in every profession there are wonderful people who work compassionately and common-sensibly (I think that's a word) and those who you just have to ask yourself what the heck they're doing in that particular profession.
Babies don't ask to be born, and they don't choose the environment into which they're born. The parents might not have necessarily chosen it either; I'm sure there are countless parents who would have preferred much nicer conditions to raise their offspring in. But there are many many good people who despite their difficult conditions still do the very best they can to bring their kids up in a safe, loving environment; sadly there are just as many who use their situation to make excuses for poor parenting where the victims end up being the ones who are simply incapable of saving themselves from it.

[frogfeaturesFZR]

Wow, it's fascinating to see how this thread has developed.
While we're at it (being rather off-topic), my experiences of Plunket were great. It doesn't take much brain power to work out that in every profession there are wonderful people who work compassionately and common-sensibly (I think that's a word) and those who you just have to ask yourself what the heck they're doing in that particular profession.
Babies don't ask to be born, and they don't choose the environment into which they're born. The parents might not have necessarily chosen it either; I'm sure there are countless parents who would have preferred much nicer conditions to raise their offspring in. But there are many many good people who despite their difficult conditions still do the very best they can to bring their kids up in a safe, loving environment; sadly there are just as many who use their situation to make excuses for poor parenting where the victims end up being the ones who are simply incapable of saving themselves from it.

Well said :yes:

[Edbear]

so while everyone bemoans the society that really does exist, who's trying to make it something better?
infact, who, with this reality in front of their eyes (and as part of their society), is doing any more than moaning??
this one is already last month's news..."(oh but did you hear about the royals vist? WHO GIVE A FUCK?)
i don't know if the TAB are taking bets on how long it'll be before the next one...
wanna gamble, ed? i give it two months.

so you've got two months of reality to live ed. you've got two months to sort out your politicians, sort out your society, to prove me wrong, two months to save a kid's life...


it's no fucking ideal. my kids' wellbeing is highly ranking in my priorities. so too any other kids i encounter. all my tin foil hat preaching and moaning is with a view to changing society, to say nothing of what i do in reality.
plenty of people oppose it, their loss. plenty of people would rather keep their head down and moo than risk the government's stock-whips. that aint a fucking society. that's a fucking mess.

am i superior? probably. do i enjoy life more? definately! am i concerned about the economy: absolutely not. do i piss and moan about a child being beten to death in a society i'm not part of? no. do i want that society to change, so as not for more children beaten to death? yes.


...two months.

Sadly it may well be sooner. Society is made up of people, many good, many bad and many in between. You change society by changing people's attitudes, and that gets to the heart of it. Government can merely legislate to try to control situations but that in itself is not enough to change people's hearts.

It is impractical, as you well know, for anyone to run around everywhere poking their nose into people's homes and intervening.

If you truly care about your children you have to have compassion and empathy, these qualities are inherent in loving parents, so you must also feel thus about others' children suffering?

We do what we can, and you don't know me or what I contribute to society, few on here do, (some think they do), but I am not one who stands back and wrings their hands but does nothing. However, as I said, unless you can change people from the inside, "society" will ever remain as it is and continue to get worse as it is.



Wow, it's fascinating to see how this thread has developed.
While we're at it (being rather off-topic), my experiences of Plunket were great. It doesn't take much brain power to work out that in every profession there are wonderful people who work compassionately and common-sensibly (I think that's a word) and those who you just have to ask yourself what the heck they're doing in that particular profession.
Babies don't ask to be born, and they don't choose the environment into which they're born. The parents might not have necessarily chosen it either; I'm sure there are countless parents who would have preferred much nicer conditions to raise their offspring in. But there are many many good people who despite their difficult conditions still do the very best they can to bring their kids up in a safe, loving environment; sadly there are just as many who use their situation to make excuses for poor parenting where the victims end up being the ones who are simply incapable of saving themselves from it.

As he said above, "Well said!"

[Genestho]

Wow, it's fascinating to see how this thread has developed.
While we're at it (being rather off-topic), my experiences of Plunket were great. It doesn't take much brain power to work out that in every profession there are wonderful people who work compassionately and common-sensibly (I think that's a word) and those who you just have to ask yourself what the heck they're doing in that particular profession.
Babies don't ask to be born, and they don't choose the environment into which they're born. The parents might not have necessarily chosen it either; I'm sure there are countless parents who would have preferred much nicer conditions to raise their offspring in. But there are many many good people who despite their difficult conditions still do the very best they can to bring their kids up in a safe, loving environment; sadly there are just as many who use their situation to make excuses for poor parenting where the victims end up being the ones who are simply incapable of saving themselves from it.

Well said. I too had a great experience with Plunket with both of my babies and then when I really really needed help they were there again.

I joined the committee when number one was born, which really was about networking, supporting each other (there was one lady with severe post natal depression and needed help) and fundraising, bit flippin annoying when the local treasurer stole $155.000, though!!

I couldn't agree with your statement more.

I have girlfriends who are solo mum's of no choice of their own, previously married whose men have up and left, leaving them as almost sole carer providing a loving and safe environment on one income, yet it seems - some couples that are killing their kids, wouldn't even know what that is.

Is a change in acceptance and thinking required? (I don't know, idealist? Just throwing it out there..)
I don't know what the answer is, wish I did.

[GTRMAN]

A High Court jury in Auckland has found Joel Loffley guilty of toddler JJ Lawrence's murder one year after the toddler's brutal death.

little comfort for JJ though...

So a question, should the mother be held accountable in any way?

[scumdog]

A High Court jury in Auckland has found Joel Loffley guilty of toddler JJ Lawrence's murder one year after the toddler's brutal death.

little comfort for JJ though...

So a question, should the mother be held accountable in any way?




At least the lying turd has been proved to be what he is: a lying bullying turd and waste of oxygen.

I await the punishment with trepidation though...

[Drew]

A High Court jury in Auckland has found Joel Loffley guilty of toddler JJ Lawrence's murder one year after the toddler's brutal death.

little comfort for JJ though...

So a question, should the mother be held accountable in any way?


Can...Open. Worms...EVERYWHERE!

If she knew that the guy was abusive to her son, (and I it's impossible that she didn't), then I believe she should be charged as an accessory.

I make no apology for a hard stance, because I am literally getting 'glassy eyed' thinking about the little bugger that died.

She is completely to blame, for putting her son in harms way. If she doesn't kill herself, she is morally bankrupt in my book!

[awa355]

Justice is half done.

[Laava]

Interesting that it is murder at this stage. No doubt it will be reduced to manslaughter on appeal.

[GTRMAN]

Can...Open. Worms...EVERYWHERE!

If she knew that the guy was abusive to her son, (and I it's impossible that she didn't), then I believe she should be charged as an accessory.

I make no apology for a hard stance, because I am literally getting 'glassy eyed' thinking about the little bugger that died.

She is completely to blame, for putting her son in harms way. If she doesn't kill herself, she is morally bankrupt in my book!

I think you and I agree Drew...... I'm scared.

[MIXONE]

At least the lying turd has been proved to be what he is: a lying bullying turd and waste of oxygen.

I await the punishment with trepidation though...

Life with a minimum of 14 years I reckon.Hopefully some inmate will change that to life...

[FJRider]

At least the lying turd has been proved to be what he is: a lying bullying turd and waste of oxygen.

I await the punishment with trepidation though...

The "General Population" will be waiting too ...

[Road kill]

I want NZ to bring back the death penalty.

I don't care how angry a guy get's,because some of us just do an know the feelings.

But anybody can control their actions even then,so hitting a kid like that was a chosen act as far as I'm concerned.

Bring back the Reaper.

[Drew]

I want NZ to bring back the death penalty.

I don't care how angry a guy get's,because some of us just do an know the feelings.

But anybody can control their actions even then,so hitting a kid like that was a chosen act as far as I'm concerned.

Bring back the Reaper.

This has been covered at length earlier in the thread.

[Akzle]

glad all the KB keyboard heros are fully appraised of the facts of the matter and thus able to deem the man guilty. shit. maybe you should all sign up to be cops...

[Drew]

glad all the KB keyboard heros are fully appraised of the facts of the matter and thus able to deem the man guilty. shit. maybe you should all sign up to be cops...The alternative to having faith in a guilty verdict in court, doesn't bare thinking about. So. He's fuckin guilty in my book!

[Edbear]

The alternative to having faith in a guilty verdict in court, doesn't bare thinking about. So. He's fuckin guilty in my book!

Maybe he missed the bit about a trial by jury, you know, where they got to hear all the facts and chewed them over for seven hours before unanimously agreeing he did it... :yes:

[Akzle]

The alternative to having faith in a guilty verdict in court, doesn't bare thinking about. So. He's fuckin guilty in my book!
sorry. i borrowed the Ministry Of Justice decision making apparatus for a really intense warhammer session.http://i00.i.aliimg.com/wsphoto/v0/675270256/Freeshipping-font-b-game-b-font-12-transparent-dice-d12-bosons-transparent-props-table-tape-font.jpg

Maybe he missed the bit about a trial by jury, you know, where they got to hear all the facts and chewed them over for seven hours before unanimously agreeing he did it... :yes:
no, jackass. i heard that. my problems with it are many.
first, i do not believe we have 12 omnipresent citizens, who have "all the facts" and if they had "all the facts" surely it would take them all of 30 seconds to make a decision as to whether those "facts" represent an infringement of crown legislation.

secondly, i trust the police and rate their competency at a level less than, or equal to zero, depending on the day. did they have enough "facts", where did they get them? did they make some up? are they going to sell them on trademe after the hearing?

thirdly, i can only assume the folk responsible for this now-dead child viewed the police in a similar, if more ignorant, fashion to me, and thus may not have appraised them of all the facts, again, assuming that them folk are omnipresent and do indeed have, all the facts.

fourthly, the entire fucking system is a joke.


your turn.
saved any kids lately, ed?

[Edbear]

sorry. i borrowed the Ministry Of Justice decision making apparatus for a really intense warhammer session.

[COLOR="#139922"]no, jackass. i heard that. my problems with it are many.
first, i do not believe we have 12 omnipresent citizens, who have "all the facts" and if they had "all the facts" surely it would take them all of 30 seconds to make a decision as to whether those "facts" represent an infringement of crown legislation.

secondly, i trust the police and rate their competency at a level less than, or equal to zero, depending on the day. did they have enough "facts", where did they get them? did they make some up? are they going to sell them on trademe after the hearing?

thirdly, i can only assume the folk responsible for this now-dead child viewed the police in a similar, if more ignorant, fashion to me, and thus may not have appraised them of all the facts, again, assuming that them folk are omnipresent and do indeed have, all the facts.

fourthly, the entire fucking system is a joke.


your turn.
saved any kids lately, ed?

Short answer is go and sit in court and follow the case personally then you don't have to make negative assumptions. Nothing like being there to get the full story.

[Drew]

Crown law my fuckin arse man. He killed a kid, pick a belief in which that isn't evil.

The police and your faith in their ability is no longer relevant. Once it gets to court the defence needs to provide little enough for reasonable doubt. That's not much compared to what the fuzz have to provide.

12 omnipresent? No. It only takes one to not believe the prosecution.

[Akzle]

Crown law my fuckin arse man. He killed a kid, pick a belief in which that isn't evil.

The police and your faith in their ability is no longer relevant. Once it gets to court the defence needs to provide little enough for reasonable doubt. That's not much compared to what the fuzz have to provide.

12 omnipresent? No. It only takes one to not believe the prosecution.

you assume he killed a kid.

i haven't seen any evidence either way. i assume, since y'all are on here banging on about it, neither have you.
further, i assume you have all bought a big slice of main-stream-media-pie.

i am not condoning beating children to death.

my faith in the police to gather enough, sufficient, relevant evidence is entirely applicable, since if they don't do a good job of it, the crown prosecution case is flawed from the get go, one way or the other. and we could end up with Bain II. type scenario. ie.

the 12 would need to be omnipresent to have "all the facts"

11/12 is a majority, 12/12 is unanimous, <10 is a hung jury.

sit in court ed? you are fucking deluded, or thick. i'm not sure if you've noticed, but i don't believe in the crown courts, why would i waste my time with that crap???

[Akzle]

12 omnipresent? No. It only takes one to not believe the prosecution.

and here's the other zing.
if i can convince a room full of people i can make an elephant disappear, can i make an elephant disappear?

that really is just fucking stupid. it's all about which clown can deliver the snazziest lines from the various acts. the only thing missing is big shoes, air horns and small tricycles. it's a GAME.

but since WE can deal with the FACT that he has been fond guilty, shall we take bets as to what his sentencing will be?

...i actually still have a stack of dice, so i can tell you with about as much certainty as they have...

[madandy]

Akzle, do you think the mother killed the boy withthe blunt force trauma to the abdomen during the 45 minutes the accused is said to have been absent from the victim?

It was one of two people...if the whanau know any different and dont speak up they're all culpable...so being mistrustful ofthe system aint helping anything anymore than buying into it lock, stock and all...

If the man is innocent he's bound to appeal right?

[scissorhands]

Appears to me, just viewing available photos, maybe the poor kid had a touch of aspergers syndrome.

[caseye]

Funnily enough Akzle, I don't disagree with your comments about our Police in this day and age, seems everywhere we look, they've fucked up big time and guilty barstards are walking free.
But, if it wasn't the mother who inflicted a blow so devastating that it killed a two year old child in less than 4 hours, who was it?
I've read and or heard little about this case, but given that it was one or the other and that as has been spoken of here recently if the mother didn't do it and if this devil didn't do it, then who the bloody hell did?
I'd be saying it was him.

You can opt out if you like, but having done so,you don't qualify to then be having an opinion either way.

Whats more if you truely believe that it was neither the mother or this prick, then instead of ranting at those here, perhaps you should be pointing out who it really was and making sure that those of us who do let the system do it's thing are appraised of the correct situation and let us deal with it by reporting the so far unknown assailant to the authorities.

I'm neither confused or disturbed by what you have to say and as per my opening statement I sometimes agree with you, but come on, if you think that simply calling everyone else names and saying you don't think that so an so did it, is going to cut it, you are sadly mistaken.
Come on Akzle, who did it?
Should they rot in hell?
I think so, don't you?
:angry2:

[RDJ]

Come on Akzle, who did it?
Should they rot in hell?
I think so, don't you?
:angry2:

I believe our fellow rider Akzle neither wishes to fish nor to cut bait.

[Drew]

and here's the other zing.
if i can convince a room full of people i can make an elephant disappear, can i make an elephant disappear?

that really is just fucking stupid. it's all about which clown can deliver the snazziest lines from the various acts. the only thing missing is big shoes, air horns and small tricycles. it's a GAME.

but since WE can deal with the FACT that he has been fond guilty, shall we take bets as to what his sentencing will be?

...i actually still have a stack of dice, so i can tell you with about as much certainty as they have...I believe 'innocent until proven quilty'. I'm quite passionate about it when any court case comes up in conversation.

I choose to be that way, for if I were to come up in court because the fuzz got overzealous and arrested me for something I didn't do, (it happens a lot I know, and when they get the bit between their teeth they can act like a pack of wolves), I want to think the system is on my side.


Appears to me, just viewing available photos, maybe the poor kid had a touch of aspergers syndrome.Really? I know two or three people with that particular affliction, and they look like anyone else wandering the streets, this might not be the norm of course, I only know the three.

Please elaborate as to how you can diagnose a mental disorder by looking at a still photo.

[scumdog]

---Quote (Originally by Akzle)---
"that really is just fucking stupid. it's all about which clown can deliver the snazziest lines from the various acts. the only thing missing is big shoes, air horns and small tricycles. it's a GAME."



C'mon man, quit messin' with th' establishment - you ain't part of it.

(Or are you actually doing something to rectify the problem you see?)

[Akzle]

Akzle, do you think the mother killed the boy

It was one of two people...

If the man is innocent he's bound to appeal right?

I DON'T KNOW who killed the kid. i've heard exactly beggar all about the case, and i'm keeping it that way. i have NO FAITH in the system to find and prove who the guilty party is. having been in our over-feminised court system, i know that being a male of a large stature instantly puts you on the back foot, because you're "intimidating" - you're guilty.
(how's the kahui case? how about nia glassie? (i know women DID get charged in that.. and walked with home D, if i recall))
the "justice system" was designed by men, for men, to specify dealings with men (which included the marriage / legal transfer of women). then some dump prick let women vote, and muck up politics. now it's a mess and we get shit like this going on.

if it was one of the two, surely the mother should at least be charged with failing in care of duty or something? maybe they should both be charged with murder one. maybe the entire whanau should be lined up against the wall and shot? would that appease your sense of justice?

karma is a bitch, and it's gonna get whodunnit. even if yer society doesn't

he will appeal anyway (although wasn't he charged at the highest level of court? giving no-one to appeal to. no recourse...)
not appealing would make him seem guiltier, which hurts his case. it also may find a technical flaw in the prosecution case, so he can walk entirely. or at least get a lesser sentence, bt again. sentencing is a game of dice.

(ps, he'll be on legal aid, the courts are all paid, the jurors, the prosecution, the police etc are all being paid tax money for this media spectacle. enjoy it, it aint coming cheap.)




But, if it wasn't the mother who inflicted a blow so devastating that it killed a two year old child in less than 4 hours, who was it?

You can opt out if you like, but having done so,you don't qualify to then be having an opinion either way.

Should they rot in hell?
I think so, don't you?

as above.

as for a man (judge) deciding how best to administer "justice" - that relies on guilt. which, instead relying on the presumption of innocence (or an admission), is automatically assumed, and reinforced by the court process (and the public media hype), rightly or wrongly. (bain, again) and that will affect everyone involved's life (except the judge and courts.. that machine will keep ticking over...) the guy in prison, his family outside, kids, friends, partners, whatever.

i don't really believe in prison, i don't believe in a punitive punishment system. (asides from ts he fact that it. just. doesn't. work) (("oh but it's the best system we've got"))
i'd like to see the pillory and gallows back, but again, the one there should be guilty.

as for who-ever's soul. i'd say it's a pretty dark place already, you may think i'm wimping out in calling karma, but don't get me wrong, if i knew who did it, i'd execute them. (but then I'm guilty, by crown law, ehh...). there's no excuse, and society and the gene pool would be best served by their death.

opting out gives me MORE of an opinion, because i'm not pretending to endorse the BS that is the system, i have no vested interest in it.

and i didn't quite mean to be so offensive/desparaging personally. i was thinking about appologising to ed. we'll see how it goes.


I believe our fellow rider Akzle neither wishes to fish nor to cut bait.
i love fishing.

I believe 'innocent until proven quilty'.

I choose to be that way, for if I were to come up in court because the fuzz got overzealous and arrested me for something I didn't do, I want to think the system is on my side.

so, what proof is there, or have you heard? that this guy is guilty.... being in court doesn't make you guilty, being charged doesn't make you guilty, being found guilty doesn't even make you guilty.

the system is not on your side. the system is 11 thousand pieces of legislation, some up to 3000 pages long, designed to confuse, misdirect, annoy and demoralise. that's why you need a law-yer (at 600$ an hour) to play the game for you. that's why you are the little guy dressed nicely and the judge sits up at the bank with a hammer, robes and a wig. (seriously folks, what's that shit about?!?! if it's not a game of dress ups...)
good deal huh?
the law society is a money generating machine (for those registered with it), unaccountable to the publicly elected government. run by this bullshit fictitious entity "the crown"


scum puppy. tits or GTFO my thread. homo.

[GTRMAN]

Since when has this been YOUR thread Akzle?

The offender was found GUILTY beyond a reasonable doubt, all your posturing about your perceived flaws in the legal system change nothing. Denial is pretty much endemic in our corrections system. strangely it is the admission of what has been done that is the beginning of turning their lives around.

You talk like someone who has spent some time in the dock and not gotten the desired outcome. Bitter, paranoid and delusional.

[PrincessBandit]

you assume he killed a kid.

i haven't seen any evidence either way. i assume, since y'all are on here banging on about it, neither have you.
further, i assume you have all bought a big slice of main-stream-media-pie.

i am not condoning beating children to death.

my faith in the police to gather enough, sufficient, relevant evidence is entirely applicable, since if they don't do a good job of it, the crown prosecution case is flawed from the get go, one way or the other. and we could end up with Bain II. type scenario. ie.

the 12 would need to be omnipresent to have "all the facts"

11/12 is a majority, 12/12 is unanimous, <10 is a hung jury.

sit in court ed? you are fucking deluded, or thick. i'm not sure if you've noticed, but i don't believe in the crown courts, why would i waste my time with that crap???

Hey at least any offender has a better chance of getting off when it only takes one person to consider them innocent (for whatever reason); if it was left to one person to decide their fate the odds lessen considerably. At least the jury are there to hear what is put before them in a court of law (and that does mean something to most people) rather than relying on media reports, or the almighty kiwibiker jury.

[caseye]

Well I'll be, good answer . I to would simply execute the "guilty" party for exactly the same reasons.
Your take on having an opinion because you have opted out intrigues me.
You are right about the game, it is not aligned to make anything fair or right for us this country's citizens, it is all about making the entire system pay and keep paying and if you can't pay you go down.
Unless of course you've committed multiple offences against society, have committed more crimes while on bail and have amassed a record longer than most peoples arm.
Then naturally you get a QC, legal aid and of course welfare.
Whats wrong with this scenario?
It only applies if you've let yourself go down the slippery slope and become a genuine menace to society, not about your colour, your upbringing, your circumstance, all about your personal attitude to life and others ability to be bullied, robbed , beaten or killed if it suits you.
Time these sorts were removed permanently.
But, who's going to do it?
Who is qualified to do it?
Ah, yes, that's right, our present society can't let an aggrieved relative take the necessary steps to help our collective society, that'd be stooping to their level, must be a better way? Not.
Time we let loose some of this countries most affected relatives, give them the facts, the means to do what they need to do and when it's done, make sure they're not intimidated by the usual rif raf, as happens now.
Maybe then our kids will have a chance of walking the streets in safety, cause right now even in broad daylight it is not safe because we've failed to send the message, fuck with us and we will bury you.
The collective we of course with the full sanctioning and support of the Police and the actual backing of the politicians and lastly the legal system, it is this particular institution that is failing us the most and in dazzlingly spectacular fashion.
Stupid decisions that allow innocent people to be murdered by animals that should never again see the light of day. Let out by people ( um judges are people?) who live in worlds so different from most of us that they really and truely don't know what happens to a neighbour who stands up to a gang member ( U no, the guy who's found dead in his car with shotgun blast to the head, for being a straight up guy) or what happens when you let a convicted, but not yet sentenced killer out on bail and he gets to close to his/her ( no sexism here) ex.
Dislike the Police for being under the direct thumb of the ruling party,( thanks comrade helen), dislike their hard nosed attitude to career crims and anything that looks like one, but don't blame them for letting these animals out to do their thing.
They'd throw away the key in a heart beat if they were allowed and most often they'd get it right.
We need to actively support them against the judicial system and their political masters to let them know that most of us want them out there between the animals and us and will go to their aid if they are attacked.
In return though we should have a perfect right to expect that they treat ordinary citizens with courtesy and respect, I've had many occasions where I've spoken with and or been spoken to by Police. Most have been amicable and friendly, some however were downright rude, overbearing and totally out of touch with reality, these ones need taking out as much as any of the crims they're there to protect against.

[scissorhands]

Really? I know two or three people with that particular affliction, and they look like anyone else wandering the streets, this might not be the norm of course, I only know the three.

Please elaborate as to how you can diagnose a mental disorder by looking at a still photo.

It takes a lot of practise and verification with personal questions afterwards.
Then once you establish a reasonable strike rate, one can be more sure of an initial appraisal with no questions.

I include borderline examples, which normally are dismissed

Certain visual markers are normally present with classic autism. Then there are non classic autisms, which are more difficult to perceive.

You need to understand that this has been a special interest of mine, for a few years, I can hyper-focus like no other if required.....picking pervasive development disorders is a hobby these last 3 years. Prior to this I have had a life long interest in personology and people typing

So, while at the old closed down Cannabis Club I would engage many punters. Also, I used to attend support group meetings at AutismNZ and also ADHD meetings at The ADHD Association. During these meetings I forego pussy riot motivations and concentrate more on listening and asking pertinent questions.

Some common visual markers are either Spock like eyebrows [downward slant near the nose] or short length eyebrows, ones that get thin [as you move outward] and peter out quickly. Compared to say an Indian or Mexican with bushy long eyebrows[opposite of autistic, normally ultra Nerotypical]

Then there is the shorter index finger, and hand shape in general. Feet, bone structure, eyes, expression.....

Many aspies and ADGHDers are of northern European origin, specifically the Germanic tribes, which includes Scandinavians, Russians and Germans. The French are kind of the opposite again, with their complicated systems of etiquette, Germans normally have poor social etiquette, no humour, uber practical....
Interestingly, socialism and Santa are a product of this region, as it excellence in design, military prowess [dont fuck with the Finns...], the manufacture of high quality goods, weapons, and lots of things high tech

So common surnames like Nelson, Nilson, Finlayson etc maybe even Lawrence too, being an old English surname. But often the 'son' on the end pricks my ears. The Scots have much Scandinavian blood, and their engineering is superb.

Its a little hit and miss. But generally certain genotypes [Germanic tribes] have autistic like sensibilities to begin with, which can emerge as a more pronounced amplified condition... now a disorder.... even if cross bred with normally non-autistic Polynesian genotypes.

It took me ages to find some Polynesian aspies or Arabs with aspergers or ADHD. They are very few. But, it can manifest out of the blue with no heritage of autistic relatives.... Possibly the few Samoans I met with the aspergers had a German relative fleeing after the war. But I believe Germans were involved in the Pacific well before WW1 or 2 and may have sown the seed in the 1800's

However early migrants to NZ during 1850's were probably unhappy at home, or the olds wanted the retards to fuck off out of their face.... many future migrants have weak family connections at home and are inclined to move and seek a better life.

In the 1800's USA east to west coast wagon trails transported those with gumption and bravery to cross the interior to a better life. ADHD features strongly amongst nomadic tribes[including Papua, Polynesia, though dark races are normally tribal with strong family bonds and interrelationships] Being restless and full of energy should really be an evolutionary strength..... but in an overly domesticated world where you have to sit still, face forward and obey, they suffer restlessness, so the doctors puts them on the crack[stimulant medication, god know why....]

I met so many ADHDers via the cannabis culture scene, so many. Cannabis appears to me to be a much better medication than crack stimulants.... Also I smoke with a group of borderline [like myself] aspies, 2 computer programmers, 2 aspie like students. All strong Germanic genetic links

Its often called the engineers disease. Think Burt Munroe, Nikola Tesla, many farmers on Country Calendar are borderline, Dan Carter[Carter being a cart man...] meaning ancestors were attracted to working with animals[bit like a old days truck driver]. Also the name Marshall and other families with links to military or in service of the lord of the land.....

Hawaii surfers family names also indicate a certain genotype. Names like Fuller, Alexander, Chapman, McIntosh, ... had upper middle class american ancestors escaping to a better life.

The propensity to drink and drugs amongst Russians, Scandinavians et al, may have a link in amplifying autistic difficulties, in a world with 90% plus equatorial genotypes.

Also if you go to an NA or AA meeting, many there are undiagnosed on the spectrum, working the 12 steps then often relapsing later, still unaware of offbeat their neurological heritage...

As stated this is a specialist area of mine... there will be many errors in these pioneered theories.

Bikers in general are well represented, especially with ADHD.
Horsemen from the past, their spawn will find pleasure riding at speed, and not conforming to the mob
Surfers too, very few Maori surf.... Why sit on your surfboard all day on your own when you can be huddled together warm with your tribe....

In the long winters of northern Europe, isolation and lack of intensive communities meant that socialising was not a function of normal daily life. Then, being able to hear a bear or wolf as it hunts you, means fine hearing, smell and sound senses will save your family line, an evolutionary strength.

Then put that same strength into a noisy equatorial type city with busy clamouring, and the strength become a weakness as you struggle to cope with the excessive stimulation, or the etiquettes common to most others of darker equatorial influences

When the Goths sacked Rome, it was the sparsely populated northerners sick and tired of excessive taxation.... I digress

Little JJ may have just been affected by cannabis in the photos, but a lack of eyebrows, sticky outy ears, his short finger, family name, and his expression of perplexed confusion which is apparent in ALL his on-line images, strongly indicates a condition of autism. Poor little guy. Having autism with that lot..... may be such a poor future, his death may have been more than what it appears.

Whew. Without the autistic genotype, inventions, science and engineering would suffer immensely.

[Edbear]

you assume he killed a kid.

i haven't seen any evidence either way. i assume, since y'all are on here banging on about it, neither have you.
further, i assume you have all bought a big slice of main-stream-media-pie.

i am not condoning beating children to death.

my faith in the police to gather enough, sufficient, relevant evidence is entirely applicable, since if they don't do a good job of it, the crown prosecution case is flawed from the get go, one way or the other. and we could end up with Bain II. type scenario. ie.

the 12 would need to be omnipresent to have "all the facts"

11/12 is a majority, 12/12 is unanimous, <10 is a hung jury.

sit in court ed? you are fucking deluded, or thick. i'm not sure if you've noticed, but i don't believe in the crown courts, why would i waste my time with that crap???


---Quote (Originally by Akzle)---
"that really is just fucking stupid. it's all about which clown can deliver the snazziest lines from the various acts. the only thing missing is big shoes, air horns and small tricycles. it's a GAME."



C'mon man, quit messin' with th' establishment - you ain't part of it.

(Or are you actually doing something to rectify the problem you see?)

Therein lies your problem, Axzle, you have strong opinions, not based upon personal knowledge coupled with a determination not to educate yourself by gaining said personal knowledge.

Unless you attend court yourself and hear and see how it is conducted, the evidence presented and how it is presented, you have no basis for your prejudice.

You also have no viable alternative to offer, which nullifies your credibility and causes people to dismiss your posts as invalid.

Criticism is given validity when it is logical, backed by facts and comes with reasonable argument on improving the case. Ideology is fine if it also addresses the reality of the situation and the practicalities of implementing the ideal.

We live in the real world whether you like it or not, so while you can claim a higher ground and pour scorn on others and the society you live in, you remain subject to it and will continue to use what you need and want to your advantage. You will also remain subject to the laws of the land in which you live whether you want to "recognise" them or not.

[Edbear]

It takes a lot of practise and verification with personal questions afterwards.
Then once you establish a reasonable strike rate, one can be more sure of an initial appraisal with no questions.

I include borderline examples, which normally are dismissed

Certain visual markers are normally present with classic autism. Then there are non classic autisms, which are more difficult to perceive.

You need to understand that this has been a special interest of mine, for a few years, I can hyper-focus like no other if required.....picking pervasive development disorders is a hobby these last 3 years. Prior to this I have had a life long interest in personology and people typing

So, while at the old closed down Cannabis Club I would engage many punters. Also, I used to attend support group meetings at AutismNZ and also ADHD meetings at The

(Huge snip!)

Whew. Without the autistic genotype, inventions, science and engineering would suffer immensely.

You keep smoking that weed, sonny... You'd get a big shock if you had to face reality... :yes:

[scissorhands]

WTF would you know. Your involved in a paedophile paradise of a religion and sell cheap Chinese shit with 1000% markup to your mates with no conscience


Therein lies your problem, Axzle, you have strong opinions, not based upon personal knowledge coupled with a determination not to educate yourself by gaining said personal knowledge.

Unless you attend court yourself and hear and see how it is conducted, the evidence presented and how it is presented, you have no basis for your prejudice.

You also have no viable alternative to offer, which nullifies your credibility and causes people to dismiss your posts as invalid.

Criticism is given validity when it is logical, backed by facts and comes with reasonable argument on improving the case. Ideology is fine if it also addresses the reality of the situation and the practicalities of implementing the ideal.

We live in the real world whether you like it or not, so while you can claim a higher ground and pour scorn on others and the society you live in, you remain subject to it and will continue to use what you need and want to your advantage. You will also remain subject to the laws of the land in which you live whether you want to "recognise" them or not.

You sound like the ultimate cocksucker



You dont get to be an old dog without sucking a few dicks?

[Edbear]

WTF would you know. Your involved in a paedophile paradise of a religion and sell cheap Chinese shit with 1000% markup to your mates with no conscience

You sound like the ultimate cocksucker

You dont get to be an old dog without sucking a few dicks?

Yup, factually incorrect on all counts as usual. :facepalm: Still, as long as your happy... :yes:

[GTRMAN]

WTF would you know. Your involved in a paedophile paradise of a religion and sell cheap Chinese shit with 1000% markup to your mates with no conscience



You sound like the ultimate cocksucker



You dont get to be an old dog without sucking a few dicks?

There is a difference between an interest, even a special one, and training and qualification. It is a dangerous path when the unqualified armchair psychologist starts making arbitrary diagnosis based on looking at photographs.

[scissorhands]

meh whatever
I can pick a retard at 100 meters

[Edbear]

There is a difference between an interest, even a special one, and training and qualification. It is a dangerous path when the unqualified armchair psychologist starts making arbitrary diagnosis based on looking at photographs.

"You must spread..."

Bang on the money. Unfortunately it is human nature to think we are "qualified" to speak on many subjects, no more so than on KB. ;)

Opinions are one thing, professional diagnosis is another and as long as we understand that and post accordingly we will avoid being called out on it.

My own study and research causes me to find error in his post and I could refer to qualified reference to back this up. However I doubt it would make any difference.