GP 2012-2013; bringing it back north

[Bert]

There has been a few off forum discussions regarding the next GP and the situation with the new MNZ licences; and its potential impact on clubs willing to run the event.

I thought it timely to at least start a thread to stimulate people views on the topic (and/or time to plan the event).
Personally I'd be guttered if it is not run this summer (north or south); I enjoyed attending the events and meeting new faces.


So here's some questions to get things started:


I assume the old rules apply that the club that held the last event gets first rights to the next?
If so is PMCC going to hold the event? (If not then we need to get something sorted before all the clubs get tied up with Nationals).

Is the issue with requiring the full National licence going to put people off attending?
Given the successful nature of the event over previous years (and class for that matter); what support would MNZ offer up?

While it was fun being part of nationals last year (last round last year); is this the only option?



Lastly; Poor F5, flagged last year, travesty. Are there the numbers to sort this out???
if not (which would be a shocker) then maybe there is an opportunity for a b-grade (like pre 2000)...

I'm happy to try and find some time to help make it happen and I'm sure others are as well.

and the other point of the thread..... the trophy is in the south island; its just not right.... :bleh:


Proactive discussion not belligerent rubbish would be great. :msn-wink:

[crazy man]

first thing ..paying $200 for a MNZ licence would put me off going if the licence hits that high

[Dutchee]

There has been a few off forum discussions regarding the next GP and the situation with the new MNZ licences; and its potential impact on clubs willing to run the event.

I thought it timely to at least start a thread to stimulate people views on the topic (and/or time to plan the event).
Personally I'd be guttered if it is not run this summer (north or south); I enjoyed attending the events and meeting new faces.


So here's some questions to get things started:


I assume the old rules apply that the club that held the last event gets first rights to the next?
If so is PMCC going to hold the event? (If not then we need to get something sorted before all the clubs get tied up with Nationals).

Is the issue with requiring the full National licence going to put people off attending?
Given the successful nature of the event over previous years (and class for that matter); what support would MNZ offer up?

While it was fun being part of nationals last year (last round last year); is this the only option?



Lastly; Poor F5, flagged last year, travesty. Are there the numbers to sort this out???
if not (which would be a shocker) then maybe there is an opportunity for a b-grade (like pre 2000)...

I'm happy to try and find some time to help make it happen and I'm sure others are as well.

and the other point of the thread..... the trophy is in the south island; its just not right.... :bleh:


Proactive discussion not belligerent rubbish would be great. :msn-wink:
I think we have more than six riders at our meets up here these days in F5. we're having lots of fun, and there's a couple down south, so we should be able to get enough riders, so long as the fees aren't too up there and we're guaranteed to start.

I have a club licence and if I need a national one, I'm out. I'd rather just go to the North Island rounds and have a damned good time with cheaper track fees, but higher booze fees.

we run F5 with C grade, as there's not really enough riders to run C grade, so that could be an option, put slower riders in with us and we have to keep in mind we're on less powerful bikes (most of us) and get them in the corners, as on the straights they're gone.

[richban]

I will go wherever the GP is. Its been bloody great the last 4 times I have been. The numbers are always high despite the cost of some of the events. It has got to be a winner for a club to have 50 bikes in one class. And it is in the hands of the Southerners, but word on the street is Nick has moved to Auckland. hehe.

Anyway my pick is always Taupo B but whatever. Its cool how its just one race and it has so much drama every year.

Is there a way of creating a single event with support classes so as the track time is maxed. Last time I looked at track costs buckets would pay for the track, support classes would need to cover the rest of the running cost. That's based on 50 buckets at Taupo. Ruapuna B could be heaps cheaper.

[Henk]

been invloved in some off forum discusions on the same topic.
Consensus seems to be

National licence for one event will kill it for a lot of people
F5 although we have the numbers up here (Thought about running it at Mt Welly for shits and giggles) licence would again kill it for most
F5 got canned through lack of available track time this year, hell of a risk to take mailing in a cheque if you aren't doing it as a cross entry

The guys in with a chance of winning it will probably go anyway, the also rans like me will probably stay home, if iy runs with another meeting I think you'll probably get about 20 entries, the maxed out grids of the last couple of years may be a thing of the past unless the licence structure changes.

[F5 Dave]

I. . ., but word on the street is Nick has moved to Auckland. hehe.

. . .

Funny you should say that, I was talking to him this afternoon at Keith's send off & he said he didn't have a bike up here, but thought Mt wgtn would be good to try. Sounds like a good shoe in for a 2 hr partner if someone was enterprising they could ring him at Topmaq with enough time to get his leathers up from chch.

Ironic about the club license thing & how it affects the GP, btu I will always do them as long as they aren't too far away (Auckland would have to be a deal breaker these days despite I've done maybe 1/2 doz up there, maybe it was only 4 or 5).

Taupo is ideal, but back cct Manfield would be good.

Go the 50s, but I would say that wouldn't I?

[Grumph]

There are some answers....Down here in the South buckets have a very good working relationship with both CAMS and BEARS clubs and run as a support class at their meetings - on club licence. Where buckets are run on street circuits of course it's full licence...

I'd suggest first ask Billy if the GP title HAS to be run as part of a National round - personally, I'd doubt it.
Then establish a relationship with a club which runs club days on taupo or whichever track is deemed suitable for the GP...Most if not all clubs will welcome extra revenue to help pay for track hire etc...cynical but true.

Done right, you could have your existing series on Kart tracks and another on the big tracks - which would include the GP.

[Bert]

I'd suggest first ask Billy if the GP title HAS to be run as part of a National round - personally, I'd doubt it.

No it doesn't need to be run as part of Nationals; that's just how it turned out this year.

Which was great fun but a few commented at the time regarding the cost....


I'm not trying to start a shit storm; I'm just trying to flush out the issues and make sure this event happens somewhere over summer.


I agree that Taupo is the best facility that I'm been to for a GP (and when part of the TSS it was a hoot). however Ruapuna B must follow closely as a secondary option..

Licences; you must hold a national licence to hold a national title.
I might be wrong; but it doesn't stop you racing in the event (only holding a club licence)....??... ---> I'll Email Billy on that.
but if ya in to win then National licence is a must...

The different in cost (club-national) is a night on the town (or three; if ya live in the sticks like Palmy) or no Christmas prezs for the kids (they wont thank you anyway)....
Technically it is $50 more than last year for the national licence; if one buys their club licence now for the north island series and the like (put the $50 saving away for later) and saves $10 a pay; one can upgrade early next year to a national licence for the GP (if you chose to do it; else you have the $$ for next year's one).
Its a false economy if you are thinking its a $100 different....
yes its $50 more than last year (and previous years); but if MNZ provides better support all round then its got to be good for the sport....

[richban]

It would be a shame if the event faded out. Especially with the growing numbers of new rides.

If the license thing is a major drag then we could just have a great event and call it the F4 F5 challenge. Main even is GP format. The thing I like is racing on a big track for a change. And also the event brings lots of people out of the woodwork. We do operate in a little sub culture that is good sometimes but bad others. Maybe the GP will need to push further away from the norm. If you won the non official GP you would still be the man or woman to beat. Who else cares except the racers?

Saying all that it would still be nice to have it as public record. Something to show the grandchildren.

[sidwyz]

The different in cost (club-national) is a night on the town (or three; if ya live in the sticks like Palmy) or no Christmas prezs for the kids (they wont thank you anyway)....
Technically it is $50 more than last year for the national licence; if one buys their club licence now for the north island series and the like (put the $50 saving away for later) and saves $10 a pay; one can upgrade early next year to a national licence for the GP (if you chose to do it; else you have the $$ for next year's one).
Its a false economy if you are thinking its a $100 different....
yes its $50 more than last year (and previous years); but if MNZ provides better support all round then its got to be good for the sport....

I had not thought of it like this!!
It is only $50 more,

I haven't renewed my licence yet but will be next week for a club licence (haven't been able to make any races this season yet)

But I am pissed that we have to pay $100 on top of club licence to race 1 race!!
But I will just piss and moan then pay the upgrade if we get a GP up and running.
No choice unless we do Rich's Idea, but I do like my MNZ nationals certificate and trophy to show the kids.

Maybe we could run our own nationals series running alongside other club meets, avoiding NZSBK nationals to keep cost down?

My preference would have to be Taupo track 2 as the last few years except 1, by far my favorite race of the year

I would put my hand up as an entry for F4 / F5 if held in the north island.

Bettter support from MNZ?? not sure we would get ANY benefit from them, so I cant see where the extra $50 would go? any ideas?

[Muzzab]

I took the $50 increase approach to the full licence, rather than seeing it as being $100 dearer than a club licence.
At that stage the only event I needed a full licence for was the Greymouth Street Races.
In fairness I must say that Greymouth is also the only event I don't need to travel to, so in fact even with the $50/$100 extra licence cost is the cheapest weekend for me all year.

Bucket numbers were down at the Greymouth Street Races, I don't really know how much of an impact the licence fee had. I only know of a couple of guys who said they only had a club licence so wouldn't be coming. I could easily name another 10 that usually go that were either at other events, moved away, recently had kids, overseas, retired from racing, or just not been seen racing at all in recent times.
So really hard to tell, general economic factors all part of it as well, the cost of a weekend away racing adds up.

Cheers
Muzza

[richban]

Bettter support from MNZ?? not sure we would get ANY benefit from them, so I cant see where the extra $50 would go? any ideas?


Maybe we could ask for a cash back deal for competitors that compete in the GP only. Or a special one even upgrade cost of 20 to 30 bucks to cover MNZ admin etc. There must be away to get it sorted. The same could be done for other classes that want to give a national event a go. National day license sort of thing only you need to have it in advance. So not a day license really but you know what I mean. The one nat event license could work. You would need to have competed in whatever amount of club events etc.

Any coms to MNZ have to come through a club as I understand.

[jasonu]

yes its $50 more than last year (and previous years); but if MNZ provides better support all round then its got to be good for the sport....

What could the 'better support' from MNZ entail?

[Billy]

No it doesn't need to be run as part of Nationals; that's just how it turned out this year.

Which was great fun but a few commented at the time regarding the cost....


I'm not trying to start a shit storm; I'm just trying to flush out the issues and make sure this event happens somewhere over summer.


I agree that Taupo is the best facility that I'm been to for a GP (and when part of the TSS it was a hoot). however Ruapuna B must follow closely as a secondary option..

Licences; you must hold a national licence to hold a national title.
I might be wrong; but it doesn't stop you racing in the event (only holding a club licence)....??... ---> I'll Email Billy on that.
but if ya in to win then National licence is a must...

The different in cost (club-national) is a night on the town (or three; if ya live in the sticks like Palmy) or no Christmas prezs for the kids (they wont thank you anyway)....
Technically it is $50 more than last year for the national licence; if one buys their club licence now for the north island series and the like (put the $50 saving away for later) and saves $10 a pay; one can upgrade early next year to a national licence for the GP (if you chose to do it; else you have the $$ for next year's one).
Its a false economy if you are thinking its a $100 different....
yes its $50 more than last year (and previous years); but if MNZ provides better support all round then its got to be good for the sport....


The whole licensing thing is really out of my domain and should be taken up with the board or office,

That said,If its a National championship at stake,Then of course you will need a National level licence.$50.00 extra in the grand scheme of things is nothing,It is after all a New Zealand title,Ask Dennis Charlett or Glen Williams or any of the others what theirs cost.

[Dutchee]

The whole licensing thing is really out of my domain and should be taken up with the board or office,

That said,If its a National championship at stake,Then of course you will need a National level licence.$50.00 extra in the grand scheme of things is nothing,It is after all a New Zealand title,Ask Dennis Charlett or Glen Williams or any of the others what theirs cost.

where does $50 come into it? a club licence is $100, a national one is $200. I know I suck at maths, but to me, that's a $100 difference.

Generally these races are about $150 to enter with transponder hire, I think.

for both Henk and myself to race, will cost $500, plus cross entries. That is upgrading the licences and entry fees for one class. spread over a year that's $10 a week, on top of our usual expenses.

that would be our race budget for the year, tyres, track fees etc.
accommodation and fuel doesn't come into it, as that's similar for any away meet. It's being able to justify an extra $440 for a weekend Ai find damned impossible to do.


The first GP I entered, my bike wasn't running right and I barely rode.

My 2nd I did a cross entry and hated F4, so ran one class.
Basically wasted the cross entry fee. F5 had a shorter race than f4 and I left there thinking I had not ridden enough.

I guess I won't be coming, so my argument is invalid. But if Henk talks the bank manager into letting him race, I'll have a book along with me and not feel I've been ripped off.

Dennis Charlett pays the same track fees as anyone else, and licence, unless he gets an Aussie one too. Difference is he races more than one race a year.

I happily buy my club licence, but for one race, an extra $100 is bullshit. I won't race anywhere else, I hate big tracks on buckets and won't race big bikes.

[gav]

All this talk of Ruapuna B track as an option is fine, but it's a real shame that when we run Battle of the Buckets and make it free entry for North Islanders, offer accomodation and pretty much roll out the red carpet for a great weekend of bucket racing, this year only 2 riders made it down. Great to see them, just a shame more weren't able to make the trip.

[crazy man]

All this talk of Ruapuna B track as an option is fine, but it's a real shame that when we run Battle of the Buckets and make it free entry for North Islanders, offer accomodation and pretty much roll out the red carpet for a great weekend of bucket racing, this year only 2 riders made it down. Great to see them, just a shame more weren't able to make the trip.free entry for North Islanders! let me know after the event

[Bert]

where does $50 come into it? a club licence is $100, a national one is $200. I know I suck at maths, but to me, that's a $100 difference.

Generally these races are about $150 to enter with transponder hire, I think.

for both Henk and myself to race, will cost $500, plus cross entries. That is upgrading the licences and entry fees for one class. spread over a year that's $10 a week, on top of our usual expenses.

that would be our race budget for the year, tyres, track fees etc.
accommodation and fuel doesn't come into it, as that's similar for any away meet. It's being able to justify an extra $440 for a weekend Ai find damned impossible to do.

......

No your maths doesn't suck in terms of the new scheme.
I was mearly comparing price to the old scheme (replaced this year). But I do agree that its a bit steep for one meeting...
but in reality for some it was really 150 bucks for one meeting (plus entry); given there is no need for a licence in welly. (and I didn't say I agree with that either)......

Personally I've carried my licence over most years so if I get a wim to go and race something in my shed I can (MX to sidecars); so I'm not the best to talk I spose...
I can only imagine the extra cost with two or three licences in one house (I don't as of yet have to support or fund another spouse or spawn for racing). I'm sure MNZ do a discount for families..
Though this year I didn't renew my fish and game licence ($150 to allow one to try and catch a trout) so I can't action that wim; the year before I didn't renew my summer golf another wim killer. All in aid of freeing up funds to get back racing..


But you have raised some very valid points; which I'm sure a lot of people are currently thinking.

How dose one justify the extra licence (50 or 100 depending on how you see it) + the cost of a meeting i.e. lots more $$ than the normal weekends F4/F5 racing all for a GP title.
This topic has come up quite a lot over the past few years; there is always going to be a debate around participation (which is the underlying culture of buckets) vs. winning the title (I'm guessing the point Billy made).

there is no answer for this other than running a separate event at a venue with less overall costs.
I know I'm not alone recalling the days of GP's on base that cost a sh!t load less than now; but that's how the cookie crumbles.


All this talk of Ruapuna B track as an option is fine, but it's a real shame that when we run Battle of the Buckets and make it free entry for North Islanders, offer accomodation and pretty much roll out the red carpet for a great weekend of bucket racing, this year only 2 riders made it down. Great to see them, just a shame more weren't able to make the trip.

It just turned out to be bad timing for us; next year I'm sure Team GPR will make the trip down... I mean Christ VIC club put on a van and no bugger took it up...



Maybe we could ask for a cash back deal for competitors that compete in the GP only. Or a special one even upgrade cost of 20 to 30 bucks to cover MNZ admin etc. There must be away to get it sorted. The same could be done for other classes that want to give a national event a go. National day license sort of thing only you need to have it in advance. So not a day license really but you know what I mean. The one nat event license could work. You would need to have competed in whatever amount of club events etc. Any coms to MNZ have to come through a club as I understand.

Rich; great thoughts about a rebate and/or one off national event license...... That is worthy of a follow up.
I'm not sure if one needs a national licence to race in a national round; look at taupo last summer (last round) it was part of the summer series as well; surely there were people racing on day licences in the other classes?? I'll go read the rule book seems as I brought it this year...

But licences were not the only point of this thread. We actually need a GP to have something to moan about $$

Hopefully a few club officials will make comment in due course.

[Grumph]

The whole licensing thing is really out of my domain and should be taken up with the board or office,

That said,If its a National championship at stake,Then of course you will need a National level licence.$50.00 extra in the grand scheme of things is nothing,It is after all a New Zealand title,Ask Dennis Charlett or Glen Williams or any of the others what theirs cost.

While I agree with you on the value of a national title I disagree re this particular event...

There is plenty of precedent existing for one off "grand prix" events in NZ which were not part of the National series...most recent may have been the "historic GP". Over the years there have been plenty of races named as GP's as stand alone events.
Some may say this devalues the true NZ GP titles....as a lot of those "GP's" have been in the NI where the real one has always been in the South, it appears that MNZ's attitude has been fairly permissive shall I say....
I suspect that if procedure is followed and a club applies for the "Bucket GP" title race and specifies that it will be at a club level meeting that that club will get the OK based on previous precedent.

[Billy]

While I agree with you on the value of a national title I disagree re this particular event...

There is plenty of precedent existing for one off "grand prix" events in NZ which were not part of the National series...most recent may have been the "historic GP". Over the years there have been plenty of races named as GP's as stand alone events.
Some may say this devalues the true NZ GP titles....as a lot of those "GP's" have been in the NI where the real one has always been in the South, it appears that MNZ's attitude has been fairly permissive shall I say....
I suspect that if procedure is followed and a club applies for the "Bucket GP" title race and specifies that it will be at a club level meeting that that club will get the OK based on previous precedent.

Nope,

The rules are quite clear,If its a National championship race,Then you require a National licence,

The one thing that has become obvious too me since taking on this job is,Everybody wants the rules enforced until theres something that affects them directly,Then theres some special reason why that particular rule shouldn't apply,If anybody's not happy with the rules the way they are,Then they are entitled to apply for a rulechange through the proper channels,Its called contributing to the advancement of the sport.

[richban]

The one thing that has become obvious too me since taking on this job is,Everybody wants the rules enforced until theres something that affects them directly,Then theres some special reason why that particular rule shouldn't apply,If anybody's not happy with the rules the way they are,Then they are entitled to apply for a rulechange through the proper channels,Its called contributing to the advancement of the sport.

Ha well said. So true. If there is a GP then I will update my licence to do it. Also plan on doing a nats round or two in the Development class on the bucket.

There maybe a rule change submitted for a one event championship licence soon. This would help with issues like the GP and also works for young riders wanting to do just there local round of the Nationals or a club racer wanting to do a single street race. To be fair on other licence holders I would suggest this upgrade is for one event only. Cost would be dependent on MNZ admin cost etc. Might work might not. I think it has merit for quite a few people not just cry baby bucket racers.

[speedpro]

Originally, way back, bucket racing was run without any "help" from MNZ. It was only because we lost the use of the airfields that we got all official and even then races were run at the Wiri container terminal for instance without official MNZ permits. GPs were run at Wigram, Woodbourne, and Ohakea. At Whenuapai we only ran the signature event, a 6-hour race, once. Generally accepted was that the Ohakea GP was the pinnacle event and rider turnout supported that view. Bucket racing has always been fairly independant thinking, you only need to check the bucket racing regulations to see that, and I see no reason why that couldn't continue. If we collectively decided that "our" GP was going to be at Taupo on a certain date then that should be good enough. It doesn't have to be official and MNZ doesn't have to agree and put the results into the records as a GP result. "We" however could still have appropriate trophies and certificates etc.

[Yow Ling]

Nope,

The rules are quite clear,If its a National championship race,Then you require a National licence,

The one thing that has become obvious too me since taking on this job is,Everybody wants the rules enforced until theres something that affects them directly,Then theres some special reason why that particular rule shouldn't apply,If anybody's not happy with the rules the way they are,Then they are entitled to apply for a rulechange through the proper channels,Its called contributing to the advancement of the sport.

There seems to be 2 issues here, 1 whether you need a national license, and 2 the new additional charges for the license.
I think the second had an effect on Greymouth entries and will probably affect the future GPs,
Given that Buckets attracts no attention from MNZ in the past, it really does feel like a tax grab for the national one and Working for families with the club one.
Personally I think the discount club licence is a flop and will adversely affect clubs like cams , Greymouth street races , nelson street race, maybe not so much the NI street races as they seem oversubscribed anyway.
There is a positive however in that it discourages the one race a year guys who can sometimes cause a bit of carnage.

So can a GP be run at a club meeting? anyone can enter but not all eligible for the title? A bit like running 2 classes in 1 race

[Buddha#81]

The rules are quite clear,If its a National championship race,Then you require a National licence,

The one thing that has become obvious too me since taking on this job is,Everybody wants the rules enforced until theres something that affects them directly,Then theres some special reason why that particular rule shouldn't apply,If anybody's not happy with the rules the way they are,Then they are entitled to apply for a rulechange through the proper channels,Its called contributing to the advancement of the sport.


Bang on Billy, I got the full Nat Licence to do Greymouth and Methven Street races thats $50 extra per meeting, some didnt and knocked the numbers a bit.

All this shit about money is that, shit! We have the cheapest racing in the world, ask a Pom how much to do a track day in the UK, let alone race there. If you struggle to pay the extra for a full nat licence, i'd say flag racing, you are probally scrimping on important stuff like safety gear.
I'm a single dad of two boys and financially its hard work at times and I make other sacrifices to go racing and ride bikes. But I had two hours last night riding around Ruapuna with my oldest boy on his RS50 for free......yes free, Bang on Motorcycling Canterbury Inc and their training class.....we even had the likes of Dennis Charlett there giving out free advice to our Nick Cains of the future! Hehe and you wonder why the hoogies etc are fast, they all came through this system.

Where should the GP be? B track and run by Cams, you wouldnt get cheaper run, a better track and loads of track time but then we would get all ya NI guys will be moaning that the travel is too expensive.......Well Skunk and Dave came up with a solution last BOB and it was too hard then to fill the truck. It wouldnt matter if Billy made Licence's free for the F4 GP, it would fail on here before it got going,

[Bert]

Nope,

The rules are quite clear,If its a National championship race,Then you require a National licence,

Yip and its always been the case; I don't think that people really have an issue with this in essence (anyone that has attended a GP in the past has already been faced with this).
Yes there has been some realisation that the new scheme has increased cost for a one off event (to bucket only riders I'm sure will not be the only category), who's only national event is a one off race at the mercy of inclusion in other events (to keep costs at a respectable level); if the clubs can fine time to fit it in (or take the risk of running it at all).

And to shoot myself in the foot here; I actually supported the scheme change as it makes bloody good sense across the board of motorcycle racing.
Club level riders get a savings (bucket & trail riders riders might actually get licences...) and provide a safety net (MNZ) for those people running the events.
National series riders pay a little more for the privilege and the required effort for all involved behind the to make it happen (including support to clubs, promotion etc..)...



The one thing that has become obvious too me since taking on this job is,Everybody wants the rules enforced until theres something that affects them directly,Then theres some special reason why that particular rule shouldn't apply,If anybody's not happy with the rules the way they are,Then they are entitled to apply for a rulechange through the proper channels,Its called contributing to the advancement of the sport.

As I said at the start of this thread; proactive discussion to flush out the key issues of why this event may not happen, get them documented and attempt get some form of resolution through the correct channels (hopefully)...

[richban]

Where should the GP be? B track and run by Cams, you wouldnt get cheaper run, a better track and loads of track time but then we would get all ya NI guys will moan that the travel is too expensive.......Well Skunk and Dave came up with a solution last BOB and it was too hard then to fill the truck. It wouldnt matter if Billy made Licence's free for the F4 GP, it would fail on here before it got going,

Well there was that little issue before the event that tainted people's views off BOB a little. Best to keep that sort of shit off the web. Does not help promote events. Me I just could not make it due to injury and work. If the GP was in the south I would go. Can B track handle 60 bikes whats the limit for an event like that. Personally as I have said before there are 2 premier national Bucket events BOB and the GP. Makes sense to keep one in the south and one in the north. Obviously they need a little better coms and organization. Looks like BOB now has a sustainable model now. All we need now is one for the GP.

[Shorty_925]

And to shoot myself in the foot here; I actually supported the scheme change as it makes bloody good sense across the board of motorcycle racing.
Club level riders get a savings (bucket & trail riders riders might actually get licences...) and provide a safety net (MNZ) for those people running the events.


Trail riders wont, just look at how popular Epic Events run trail rides are, and their Taupo 4 hour. Theres plenty of other non-mnz events(dirt) out there and are run under private insurance and otheres that are not. Summer Cross anyone?

[F5 Dave]

My take is if we can get club level support we would be better running the GP at a semi stand alone event. Sort of like Taupo that Pacific ran GP before last.

They wibbled as teh event didn't make money, but on the other hand it didn't lose it (I believe). The idea of mixing in Motards & a track day was inspired.

The only problem is it rained. If it was dry & there was enough advertising (ie a decent post on KB general section for a starter), then there would have been considerably more takers.

The other thing I am against is transponders. Yeah they are cool & make organising much easier. but countless races have been held with some rider's missus doing the lap scoring & being given some bubbly & a cheer afterwards at prizegiving. This dramatically lowers costs for everyone involved. Gets us an event where we aren't the poor cousin & can actually get some track time.

Heck if we could do that sensibly the extra for a national license would be a far lesser issue.


The problem is we need a club ready to take that on. I'm not sure where Pacific is but I hear they lost money on the big event, or rather Taupo track didn't get any gate sales (no promotion) so it was a bit messy. With Roys hill out of action maybe there isn't the bucket force in the club.

Vic club, well it pretty much comes down to Skunk. You've never met a more dedicated volunteer, but he is running on very little spare time & frankly the fall out from the BOB drop out when he went to organise travel certainly didn't help. These people need our help, not just, oh yeah, I'll come & then pull out.

A 'B' track Manfield event like the on in Feb (sadly on a Sat) would be a good option.

[Grumph]

Nope,

The rules are quite clear,If its a National championship race,Then you require a National licence,

The one thing that has become obvious too me since taking on this job is,Everybody wants the rules enforced until theres something that affects them directly,Then theres some special reason why that particular rule shouldn't apply,If anybody's not happy with the rules the way they are,Then they are entitled to apply for a rulechange through the proper channels,Its called contributing to the advancement of the sport.

Still disagree with the first part of your reply....If the "bucket GP" is a national championship or part of one it's the first I've heard of it...

Does this mean that the winner of this race will receive official recognition from MNZ ?

The title "Grand Prix" has been attatched to races and events previously which are not and never have been part of a National championship and will be attatched again if someone sees advantage in so doing.

I was told recently down here in the SI that one of the distinctions - I don't know how many there are - that identifies a meeting where the full licence is required is an admission charge on the gate....Never heard of this happening at a bucket meeting...

[F5 Dave]

. . .
Does this mean that the winner of this race will receive official recognition from MNZ ?
...

Well to be fair most years I have, when I've won one, like a medal thingy, which is nice, Think I've had to hassle them for it in the past, I might be short one, but they've been pretty well organised in last 5 years or so.
but I did get a bit miffed that one year they sent out a MNZ year book to all holders & it contained all the national winners, including the 9-12yr old trailbike class, but of course Buckets were not included.

I didn't get one for the Open 50GP in Chch as there was a clash in rules & open to non national licence holders (ie day) so it wasn't recognised as a MNZ GP, but heck I've got the trophy so I know, that's all I cared about, but more importantly it was a fun days racing.

I did note with some amusment that in that list 5 out of 8 (or something like that) of the road race names listed were ex or current bucketeers.

[Henk]

The changes to the licencing system have had an impact. In the past a club licence was only valid for the club that you were a member of, as a result we had full licences so that we could go to the Roy's Hill, Kaitoke two day and NI away rounds, now the current club licence covers all of these. Although you are correct in saying that the full licence is only $50 more expensive than last year it still adds up to an extra $200 for us if we were both going to ride in the F4 and/or F5 GPs.
As for the argument of how much has it cost Dennis Charlett et al I find this meaningless in context. The guys that are in with a chance of winning will buy the full licence and turn up anyway, the other 75% of the field may or may not. The $500 (assuming no ferry trip) plus that it would cost us to race the GP goes a fair way towards heading to another away round that we will likely enjoy as much or more. Budget always comes in to the equation and with 5 NI away rounds on the calendar already another expensive weekend away will take some thinking about. Yes I know it is still lots cheaper than real bike racing but that is one of the reasons buckets is appealing. That and the fact that we have so many opportunities to race. 15 meetings for us with the AK club rounds and NI series. Squeezing another in has time considerations as well as cash.

[kel]

It doesn't have to be official and MNZ doesn't have to agree and put the results into the records as a GP result. "We" however could still have appropriate trophies and certificates etc.
simple as that :niceone:, as long as someone steps up to take charge

[Dutchee]

simple as that :niceone:, as long as someone steps up to take charge

Funny getting such an early start to bitch about cost, dont we usually wait for the event to be announced?
why not discuss it now before anyone starts planning something expecting it to be like previous years and then finding that a lot of us won't come because it's too expensive. Clear the air beforehand and work out whether it is feasible and if not, if there's some way to make it feasible.

[Buddha#81]

The changes to the licencing system have had an impact. In the past a club licence was only valid for the club that you were a member of, as a result we had full licences so that we could go to the Roy's Hill, Kaitoke two day and NI away rounds, now the current club licence covers all of these. Although you are correct in saying that the full licence is only $50 more expensive than last year it still adds up to an extra $200 for us if we were both going to ride in the F4 and/or F5 GPs.
As for the argument of how much has it cost Dennis Charlett et al I find this meaningless in context. The guys that are in with a chance of winning will buy the full licence and turn up anyway, the other 75% of the field may or may not. The $500 (assuming no ferry trip) plus that it would cost us to race the GP goes a fair way towards heading to another away round that we will likely enjoy as much or more. Budget always comes in to the equation and with 5 NI away rounds on the calendar already another expensive weekend away will take some thinking about. Yes I know it is still lots cheaper than real bike racing but that is one of the reasons buckets is appealing. That and the fact that we have so many opportunities to race. 15 meetings for us with the AK club rounds and NI series. Squeezing another in has time considerations as well as cash.

Sorry the Dennis/MCI thing was added just to show how blessed we are down here to have a club (more than one) that welcomes new riders and buckets and develops young and old alike.

I feel for ya Henk when there is two in the house that enjoys our sport, end of the day if you race a bucket in the south the entry is the same price if you have a superbike or F5, where we are lucky is we are treated the same because of it.

Simple fact is that Motorsport is expensive and to chase a title (or even compete in the same race) will cost in some way.

All other road race GP titles are run at the Ruapuna round of the Nats..........maybe they do the lot?

[richban]

why not discuss it now before anyone starts planning something expecting it to be like previous years and then finding that a lot of us won't come because it's too expensive. Clear the air beforehand and work out whether it is feasible and if not, if there's some way to make it feasible.


You may recall last year heaps of people bitched and moaned about the GP on KB. Still heaps turned up and had a ball. KB is not representative of all the racers in the north island.

The GP has been tagged onto other events for a while now.

If there was an annual 2 day event that was bucket focused at Taupo and included the GP but also gave track time to all levels of rider A, B, with support classes to help foot the bill. Ummm I think you would find there would be a massive field. Club licence for the event but a championship licence for the GP. Basically BOB up here.

I would put money on it being a hit. I may well do.

[Buddha#81]

You may recall last year heaps of people bitched and moaned about the GP on KB. Still heaps turned up and had a ball. KB is not representative of all the racers in the north island.

The GP has been tagged onto other events for a while now.

If there was an annual 2 day event that was bucket focused at Taupo and included the GP but also gave track time to all levels of rider A, B, with support classes to help foot the bill. Ummm I think you would find there would be a massive field. Club licence for the event but a championship licence for the GP. Basically BOB up here.

I would put money on it being a hit. I may well do.

Or we do it properly down here.......you know we can

[richban]

Or we do it properly down here.......you know we can

Yeah I know it would be good. But then there is no race up here for you boys to come up for. You have one you can't have 2.

[RDjase]

Is there a North Island Bucket round at Manfeild back track?

Could run it there, heaps cheaper to hire than Taupo and if its already on it would save everyone $ so they could upgrade there licence to race the GP

[RDjase]

At the Barry Sheene meeting at labour weekend there was a TT race for all classes as the last race on Monday, you HAD to have a full competion licence to race it, just like the F4 GP as it is officialy called. MNZ does not call it the Bucket GP

[Bert]

You may recall last year heaps of people bitched and moaned about the GP on KB. Still heaps turned up and had a ball. KB is not representative of all the racers in the north island.

The GP has been tagged onto other events for a while now.

If there was an annual 2 day event that was bucket focused at Taupo and included the GP but also gave track time to all levels of rider A, B, with support classes to help foot the bill. Ummm I think you would find there would be a massive field. Club licence for the event but a championship licence for the GP. Basically BOB up here.

I would put money on it being a hit. I may well do.


Or we do it properly down here.......you know we can

I Think Rich has hit the nail on the head; one event in each Island (with potential offset i.e. different times of the year); maybe working together in partnership?
Buddha yes you are right; you guys have a great model and fantastic support; but it would be a shame not to service the north islanders with a significant event to aim for.

[gav]

I do find it rather strange that Billy can be so forceful with the ruling regarding buckets and licences, yet when MNZ is approached for clarification for a ruling the road race commisioner mentions "spirit of the rules" and "self policing" ... :confused:

[Buddha#81]

I do find it rather strange that Billy can be so forceful with the ruling regarding buckets and licences, yet when MNZ is approached for clarification for a ruling the road race commisioner mentions "spirit of the rules" and "self policing" ... :confused:

I could be wrong but the previous RRC mentioned self policing and sprit of rules thing?........The small contact i have had with Billy he has some good ideas.

[Billy]

I could be wrong but the previous RRC mentioned self policing and sprit of rules thing?........The small contact i have had with Billy he has some good ideas.

Jeez mate,Don't steal Gavs thunder like that,That fact is I haven't enforced ANY rules whatsoever as yet,All I did was point out whats stated in the rules for all who can be arsed reading them,But no its much better to waste my time than for idiots to actually bother to read the M.O.M.S themselves,Despite the fact its part of the contract they entered into when applying for their licence.

Thanks for the support all the same,Its easy to see why people get pissed off and turn their back on certain factions.Bad luck doesn't just happen,Its generally a result of earlier actions.

[Bert]

Jeez mate,Don't steal Gavs thunder like that,That fact is I haven't enforced ANY rules whatsoever as yet,All I did was point out whats stated in the rules for all who can be arsed reading them,But no its much better to waste my time than for idiots to actually bother to read the M.O.M.S themselves,Despite the fact its part of the contract they entered into when applying for their licence.

Thanks for the support all the same,Its easy to see why people get pissed off and turn their back on certain factions.Bad luck doesn't just happen,Its generally a result of earlier actions.

Please Billy this is not the intent of this Thread at all (in terms of pissing anyone off and isolating F4 & F5 any further).
It's goal was to flush out the issues that have already discussed around the different places and attempt to seek out some form of solution.

I should have known better than to start something on here...

but i did ask at the start: "Proactive discussion not belligerent rubbish would be great".

[kel]

Thanks for the support all the same,Its easy to see why people get pissed off and turn their back on certain factions.Bad luck doesn't just happen,Its generally a result of earlier actions.

Take that ya dirt faction!

[Muzzab]

Please Billy this is not the intent of this Thread at all (in terms of pissing anyone off and isolating F4 & F5 any further).
It's goal was to flush out the issues that have already discussed around the different places and attempt to seek out some form of solution.

I should have known better than to start something on here...

but i did ask at the start: "Proactive discussion not belligerent rubbish would be great".


LoL......I hear ya Bert.........ya poke ya head up, with the best intentions......ducking down again........:msn-wink:

[fi5hy]

All the posts above are why I in Wellington by pass MNZ in the first place. If you want good fields of keen riders keep it fuckin easy!:weird: Cheap entry fees and NO MNZ LICENCE = LOTS OF PEOPLE riding.

[Muzzab]

All the posts above are why I in Wellington by pass MNZ in the first place. If you want good fields of keen riders keep it fuckin easy!:weird: Cheap entry fees and NO MNZ LICENCE = LOTS OF PEOPLE riding.

Makes sense, but unfortunately there's no other choice down here, I don't know of any bucket meetings at a place that doesn't require a MNZ day licence at $25 a pop on top of any entry fee ($40 - $80) if you don't have a club/full MNZ licence.

Bang for bucks you are probably much better off running at Kart tracks.

[all4A50s]

All the posts above are why I in Wellington by pass MNZ in the first place. If you want good fields of keen riders keep it fuckin easy!:weird: Cheap entry fees and NO MNZ LICENCE = LOTS OF PEOPLE riding.

Totally agree.

I've found Skunk's and Fysh's organized events at Kaitoke fantastic. Nice and relaxed with rules kept to.

Make it a like a club event, with mandatory club membership and if you don't have a race license, allow you to purchase a day license (like you could do for TRRS). Having to fork out $200 for your license for 1 event is a bit rich in my opinion.

And if at all possible Taupo.

[timg]

Well there was that little issue before the event that tainted people's views off BOB a little. Best to keep that sort of shit off the web. Does not help promote events. Hey don't worry Rich, I've quit racing and by the next BOB I'll have quit CAMS too so I won't be around to fuk it all up again, as apparantly I have done in the past.

[Skunk]

Totally agree.
I've found Skunk's and Fysh's organized events at Kaitoke fantastic. Nice and relaxed with rules kept to.Funny thing there: my events at Kaitoke ARE MNZ events. It's all in the attitude... You want to race but without any officialdom. But you want a title :weird:

I'm reluctant to organise a GP. How on earth can I guarantee any Aucklanders will travel past the Bombay Hills and Southerners will cross the micro-ditch? Meanwhile there are Wellington people without a licence (I can hear it now: 'It cost's too much').

I'd be happy to run several two-day events per year at Kaitoke. But they would be done with MNZ. And I won't do it if it's going to affect what Fish is doing. That would make it worth having a $100 licence. (That's right - $100 per year for $10000 dollars death cover and liability cover...)

If you want the GP (or something similar) I will do it. But not without MNZ behind me and some guarantees of support.

[Muzzab]

Funny thing there: my events at Kaitoke ARE MNZ events. It's all in the attitude... You want to race but without any officialdom. But you want a title :weird:

I'm reluctant to organise a GP. How on earth can I guarantee any Aucklanders will travel past the Bombay Hills and Southerners will cross the micro-ditch? Meanwhile there are Wellington people without a licence (I can hear it now: 'It cost's too much').

I'd be happy to run several two-day events per year at Kaitoke. But they would be done with MNZ. And I won't do it if it's going to affect what Fish is doing. That would make it worth having a $100 licence. (That's right - $100 per year for $10000 dollars death cover and liability cover...)

If you want the GP (or something similar) I will do it. But not without MNZ behind me and some guarantees of support.


I hear you mate, I'm treasurer for the Greymouth Street Races, you don't wanna guess how much that costs to run, and the worry about entries and gate numbers needed to fund it after you've already committed the $$. But it seems to come together. We do have a committee so it's not left just to one person. I hope everyone who races at the events you organise gives you the :2thumbsup
afterwards.

Cheers
Muzza

[fi5hy]

Funny thing there: my events at Kaitoke ARE MNZ events. It's all in the attitude... You want to race but without any officialdom. But you want a title :weird:



And you run a great event to Skunk:headbang:

[Dutchee]

And you run a great event to Skunk:headbang:
Ooh, that's so sweet hehe

as an outsider who has been to events run by both of you, all I can say is keep it up, shame we won't be back down for ages, but will have to try and make an event next year.

Run one a week before BOB, give us lots of notice and we'll try to make both events, plus have a road ride as well (and still go back to work wrecked after too much fun).

[TZ350]

Run one a week before BOB, give us lots of notice and we'll try to make both events, plus have a road ride as well (and still go back to work wrecked after too much fun).

The dream trip away would be a Kaitoki two day then next weekend BOB then the weekend after Greymouth.

[Grumph]

The dream trip away would be a Kaitoki two day then next weekend BOB then the weekend after Greymouth.

Nothing stopping you...there's free accomodation in ChCh and the coast is legendary for it's hospitality....

Just have to learn to ride underwater.....

[Bert]

Well things like this must help....

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/154296-My-Laps-transponders-available-from-AMCC?p=1130428710#post1130428710


Totally agree.......
Make it a like a club event, with mandatory club membership and if you don't have a race license, allow you to purchase a day license (like you could do for TRRS).
Having to fork out $200 for your license for 1 event is a bit rich in my opinion.
And if at all possible Taupo.

not to be belligerent;
but technically at TRRS you were not allowed to race in the GPs with the day license (the rules haven't changed).
but it was generally accepted by the people that had paid up, that the field would have a few people out there in that situation.
That's cause we are all a loving bunch that just enjoy racing so much (it does reflex this sports' community as a whole; its about the participation).



.........
If you want the GP (or something similar) I will do it. But not without MNZ behind me and some guarantees of support.

If that's a call for Help Skunk; I'm in. (You will here from us soon external of here).

[SHELRACING]

Shelracing had every intention last year to race in the GP at Taupo. Afterall Taupo is our nearest big track. However on applying for an MNZ License were told that we would have to pay $170 each for one day. Thats because you have to pay for 1 yrs license.

On top of the $170 entry fee ( we were coming with the big bikes too) this was just toooooo much for us to pay.
So we flagged it. Same will apply this year unless it it held elsewhere and the fees are a little less. We can do a trackday at Taupo for a lot less. Lets face it we are not in the running for trophys, we are happy to make up the numbers. We are there to enjoy the company and have a fun ride. But.... we do have a budget to stick too as well.

We dont care where it is held so long as it is run well and we get track time. All of the bucket meets we have been to have been fantastic. Kaitoke was great fun at Easter last year and we will be attending any Easter meet again. Auckland as always is run real well.
Ellen

[codgyoleracer]

first thing ..paying $200 for a MNZ licence would put me off going if the licence hits that high

Yeah, but we need to keep in mind that your a tight-arse........ :-)

[codgyoleracer]

Jeez mate,Don't steal Gavs thunder like that,That fact is I haven't enforced ANY rules whatsoever as yet,All I did was point out whats stated in the rules for all who can be arsed reading them,But no its much better to waste my time than for idiots to actually bother to read the M.O.M.S themselves,Despite the fact its part of the contract they entered into when applying for their licence.

Thanks for the support all the same,Its easy to see why people get pissed off and turn their back on certain factions.Bad luck doesn't just happen,Its generally a result of earlier actions.

Geez Billy , Youve turned all philisophical on us........

[Billy]

Geez Billy , Youve turned all philisophical on us........

Bwahahahahaha!!Must be cold and wet in Palmy today(WHAT a surprise) if your dredging KB for things to comment on,Maybe its time for a new project???

[codgyoleracer]

New project is how to get chrysler pt cruiser headlights workin.......