'Merkin 'lections

[scumdog]

So, who voted for B.O.????

[merv]

Enough of them so it seems. Suppose you are a Ford man and didn't totally appreciate his bailout of GM and Chrysler?

[Kickaha]

They must put something in the water when the elections are on because a big percentage of the Merkin population seems to turn into rabid fanatics

[scumdog]

Enough of them so it seems. Suppose you are a Ford man and didn't totally appreciate his bailout of GM and Chrysler?

Dang tootin' right there Merv!:D

[sil3nt]

It's all bullshit anyway.

[skippa1]

So, who voted for B.O.????

isnt a merkin a pubic wig? Do we have to vote for them?

[scumdog]

isnt a merkin and pubic wig? Do we have to vote for them?

Dunno why.

Bit I'd vote for that one!:2thumbsup

[Madness]

I'm glad that other fella didn't get in. He's like a shifty version of Guy Smiley.

http://dailyhabitz.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Mitt_Romney_vs_Guy_Smiley.jpg

[SMOKEU]

I wanted Obama to win all along, otherwise I'd be called a racist if I thought otherwise.

[BoristheBiter]

I'm glad that other fella didn't get in. He's like a shifty version of Guy Smiley.



God no, Obama is SOOOO boring at least the other guy would have been fun to laugh at.
It's not like it will make any difference anyway

[pete376403]

Obama boring? maybe, but after reading this blog about what Romney stands for, I guess enough people considered boring was the lesser of the two evils.
By Robert Reich, Robert Reich's Blog
04 November 12
By now, in these last remaining days before the election of 2012, we have learned enough about the beliefs of the Republican presidential candidate to see them as a worldview all its own – a kind of creed that explains Mitt Romney. Those who say he has no principles are selling him short.
Despite its contradictions and ellipses, Romneyism has an internal coherence. It is different from conservatism, because it does not intend to conserve or protect any particular institutions or values. It is also distinct from Republicanism, in that it is not rooted in traditional small-town American values, nationalism, or states’ rights.
The ten guiding principles of Romneyism are:
1. Corporations are the basic units of society. Corporations are people, and the overriding purpose of an economy is to maximize corporate profits. When profits are maximized, the economy grows fastest. This growth benefits everyone in the form greater output, better products and services, and higher share prices.

2. Workers are a means to the goal of maximizing corporate profits. If workers do not contribute to that goal, they should be fired. If they cannot then find other work that helps maximize profits in another company, their wages must be too high, and they must therefore accept steadily lower wages until they find a job.

3. All factors of production – capital, physical plant and equipment, workers – are fungible and should be treated the same. Any that fail to deliver high competitive returns should be replaced or discarded. This keeps an economy efficient. Fairness is and should be irrelevant.

4. Pollution, unsafe products, unsafe working conditions, financial fraud, and other negative side effects of the pursuit of profits are the price society pays for profit-driven growth. They should not be used as excuses to constrain the pursuit of profits through regulation.

5. Individual worth depends on net worth — how much money one has made, and the value of the assets that money has been invested in. Any person with enough intelligence and ambition can make a fortune. Failure to do so is sign of moral and intellectual inferiority.

6. People who fail in the economy should not be coddled. They should not receive food stamps, Medicaid, or any other form of social subsidy. Coddling leads to a weaker society and a weaker economy.

7. Taxes are inherently bad because they constrain profit-making. It is the right and responsibility of individuals and corporations to exploit every tax loophole they (and their tax attorneys) can find in order to pay the lowest taxes possible.

8. Politics is a game whose only purpose is to win. Any means used to win the game is legitimate even if it involves lying and cheating, as long as it gains more supporters than it loses.

9. Democracy is dangerous because it is forever vulnerable to the votes of a majority intent on capturing the wealth of the successful minority, on whom the economy depends. The rich must therefore do whatever is necessary to prevent the majority from exercising its will, including spending large sums of money on lobbyists and political campaigns. The most virtuous among the rich will go a step further and run for president.

10. The three most important aspects of life are family, religion, and money. Patriotism is a matter of guarding our economy from unfair traders and undocumented immigrants, rather than joining together for the common good. We owe nothing to one another as citizens of the same society.

(john Key probably wishes he could get away with a manifesto along these lines)

[unstuck]

Nuke the fuckin lot of em.:devil2:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/3bZzM4s0Hgs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>:Punk::Punk:

[BoristheBiter]

some rantintg....

That was the rantings of some anti-capilest by the looks.
Spent as much time reading that as I did caring about who was going to win.


Nuke the fuckin lot of em.:devil2:

:Punk::Punk:

Now that is the correct answer:first:

[Paul in NZ]

The mere fact that a successful Mormon stood for the presidency of the USA and came within a whisker is a worry. By its nature this is a fundamentalist and expansionist religion dedicated to recruiting as many members as possible and it is NOT a religion of tolerance, arguably due to its history.

I'm sure that Mr Romney saw himself as a good man and given the scrutiny of the media its safe to assume there are no half eaten babies in his past but I could never get past his religion and the influence this moral compass would have over foreign policy decisions.

America is undergoing a great change. Its society is polarizing and its great middle class diminishing. Whether it becomes one of histories great democracies or collapses into tyranny is going to make interesting watching. Personally, I'd say give it another 50 years and watch out for another Caesar to appear on the scene and we will have the new Rome. (if China can be convinced to make the uniforms on tick)

[Tigadee]

http://s4.hubimg.com/u/2968435_f260.jpg
(if China can be convinced to make the uniforms on tick)

If they can make these, I'm sure they can make togas...

[Banditbandit]

I wanted Obama to win all along, otherwise I'd be called a racist if I thought otherwise.

:rofl:


God no, Obama is SOOOO boring at least the other guy would have been fun to laugh at.
It's not like it will make any difference anyway

The Afghanis and Iraqs who have been killed because of the actions of American presidents would not think it was funny ..

[BoristheBiter]

:rofl:



The Afghanis and Iraqs who have been killed because of the actions of American presidents would not think it was funny ..

All the innocents killed by afghanis/taliban would.

[Paul in NZ]

http://s4.hubimg.com/u/2968435_f260.jpg

If they can make these, I'm sure they can make togas...

Pfft - I think if that was what the Chinese army was really like I'd actually ask to be invaded... (ha ha - imagine if China sent that lot to Afghanistan as peace keepers. The old Mullahs and co would blow a blood vessels....

[oldrider]

USA presidential elections are just a circus of distraction, got nothing to do with the direction of real world politics! :sleep:

[ducatilover]

About all that can be drawn from this is: It never ceases to surprise how stupid people are.
'Merka is crap.

[Paul in NZ]

About all that can be drawn from this is: It never ceases to surprise how stupid people are.
'Merka is crap.


No its not actually... Once you go there you find 99% of merkins are bloody good buggers and its nothing like you would expect if your only source of information was the internet. Helpful, kind and decent to a fault. Yes - they have a few funny ideas and they have been sold a few bum steers (their medical system for one) BUT on the whole... I like them...

[Macontour]

No its not actually... Once you go there you find 99% of merkins are bloody good buggers and its nothing like you would expect if your only source of information was the internet. Helpful, kind and decent to a fault. Yes - they have a few funny ideas and they have been sold a few bum steers (their medical system for one) BUT on the whole... I like them...

I agree. I went there for 6 months in the late 80s, worked in a Summer Camp then travelled all over the show for 4 months. Didn't matter where I went, big city or small town in the middle of nowhere, the Americans I met were genuinely helpful, friendly people.

I walked on streets where I was the only white face and just got funny looks, I caught a Greyhound bus from Atlanta Georgia to Birmingham Alabama and was the only white person on the bus. When I asked the driver about the best place to get off, a bunch of people offered advice and made sure I got off at the right place as well as giving me good directions to where I was going.

I met a bunch of people at a Pancake Parlour who offered me a guided tour of their small town and even offered a bed for the night. Apart from getting pickpocketed in New York, I had no bad experiences and met many, many really friendly people.

Will return one day.

[skippa1]

No its not actually... Once you go there you find 99% of merkins are bloody good buggers and its nothing like you would expect if your only source of information was the internet. Helpful, kind and decent to a fault. Yes - they have a few funny ideas and they have been sold a few bum steers (their medical system for one) BUT on the whole... I like them...


I agree. I went there for 6 months in the late 80s, worked in a Summer Camp then travelled all over the show for 4 months. Didn't matter where I went, big city or small town in the middle of nowhere, the Americans I met were genuinely helpful, friendly people.

I walked on streets where I was the only white face and just got funny looks, I caught a Greyhound bus from Atlanta Georgia to Birmingham Alabama and was the only white person on the bus. When I asked the driver about the best place to get off, a bunch of people offered advice and made sure I got off at the right place as well as giving me good directions to where I was going.

I met a bunch of people at a Pancake Parlour who offered me a guided tour of their small town and even offered a bed for the night. Apart from getting pickpocketed in New York, I had no bad experiences and met many, many really friendly people.

Will return one day.

agreed. I have spent time in NY, Boston, New Hampshire, Florida and passed through LA, Texas and San Francisco and I can honestly say that the people I met were genuinely nice people. They are different, but we all are aye. The thing with mericans is that they are brought up to believe that the USA is the best place in the world. They truly believe it and are really patriotic because of it. This sometimes means that they come accross as arrogant but it only stems from the fact that they a believers in their country.

[BoristheBiter]

I like them...


I agree.

Will return one day.


agreed.

So what's the point?

Yep there are good and bad in every country still doesn't mean we should give a shit who they vote in.

[merv]

I like going there on holiday - just got back from Seattle area last month - loved every minute of it and always have. The place is struggling a bit financially at the moment but people are friendly and there's plenty of sightseeing to be done. Food isn't expensive either. Free wi-fi everywhere, much more prevalent than here. I've still got quite a few states to visit so I'll be back. Go the Democrats.

[skippa1]

So what's the point?

Yep there are good and bad in every country still doesn't mean we should give a shit who they vote in.

Fuck me....... if you dont give a shit who they voted in....why would you even open the thread or bother to comment? :blink:

[jrandom]

Yep, dunno about all the rest of yas, but I'm sure as hell thinking about moving to Colorado right now.

:doobey:

[ducatilover]

No its not actually... Once you go there you find 99% of merkins are bloody good buggers and its nothing like you would expect if your only source of information was the internet. Helpful, kind and decent to a fault. Yes - they have a few funny ideas and they have been sold a few bum steers (their medical system for one) BUT on the whole... I like them...

People are stupid Paul. Not just 'Merkins (I have a few very close mates who are from the big fat land, all clever chaps)

[Maha]

People are stupid Paul. Not just 'Merkins (I have a few very close mates who are from the big fat land, all clever chaps)

Which is why they left in the first place.....:lol:

[ducatilover]

Which is why they left in the first place.....:lol:

That's what I thought.
One bunch ffrom Florida think the people in NZ are far nicer.

Maybe everyone just wants to love another country?

[MisterD]

Yep, dunno about all the rest of yas, but I'm sure as hell thinking about moving to Colorado right now.

:doobey:

Just what Boulder needs, even more stoned snowboarders!

[jrandom]

Just what Boulder needs, even more stoned snowboarders!

Wazzat? There are stoned people in Boulder? That's shocking. I'm sure it makes it hard to find good engineers willing to move there... http://jobview.monster.com/Google-Inc-Software-Engineer-Job-Boulder-CO-US-115802475.aspx

[BoristheBiter]

Fuck me....... if you dont give a shit who they voted in....why would you even open the thread or bother to comment? :blink:

It's called an opinion. Most people have one, I decided to post mine.

[Banditbandit]

Must be time for some naked models here too

<img src="http://th00.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/f/2010/356/f/d/nude_male_model___standing_077_by_amdgfinearts-d35gfvh.jpg" width="400px"/>

[007XX]

agreed. I have spent time in NY, Boston, New Hampshire, Florida and passed through LA, Texas and San Francisco and I can honestly say that the people I met were genuinely nice people. They are different, but we all are aye. The thing with mericans is that they are brought up to believe that the USA is the best place in the world. They truly believe it and are really patriotic because of it. This sometimes means that they come accross as arrogant but it only stems from the fact that they a believers in their country.

You would find this also in France, England and these are the only ones I can say this for certain having visited them / had enough to do with.

I've met some amazing Americans through the years, and some real *insert debasing adjective here*.... But that goes for NZ too and whatever other countries I was lucky enough to visit.

I for one am glad Obama got in. A mormon in power? *shudder*

[007XX]

Must be time for some naked models here too

>

I strongly prefered your earlier efforts in that other thread...


You dirty, dirty scoundrel :spanking:

[oldrider]

No its not actually... Once you go there you find 99% of merkins are bloody good buggers and its nothing like you would expect if your only source of information was the internet. Helpful, kind and decent to a fault. Yes - they have a few funny ideas and they have been sold a few bum steers (their medical system for one) BUT on the whole... I like them...

True!
That was our experience too, further South, the nicer they are but this thread is about their recent elections, different thing all together! :corn:

[Banditbandit]

I strongly prefered your earlier efforts in that other thread...





Me too .. but I thought I'd better be non-sexist and cater to the ladies as well (sorry .. women as well) ... and not be ageist either ..

[007XX]

Me too .. but I thought I'd better be non-sexist and cater to the ladies as well (sorry .. women as well) ... and not be ageist either ..

How very politically correct of you :lol:

[scumdog]

No its not actually... Once you go there you find 99% of merkins are bloody good buggers and its nothing like you would expect if your only source of information was the internet. Helpful, kind and decent to a fault. Yes - they have a few funny ideas and they have been sold a few bum steers (their medical system for one) BUT on the whole... I like them...

Kinda sums up my expience too Paul - otherwise I wouldn't be doing those visits regularly.

And they are extra keen to help/provide good service or whatever once they find I'm from 'Noo Zeeelan'.

[jrandom]

further South, the nicer they are...

Maybe. In some ways. So long as you're not black, gay, or an atheist. Over the last wee while, I've discovered that all the Murkns I'm working with at the moment (power-plant-buildin' engineer types) vote Republican.

Given that I get my American political perspective from the likes of reddit.com, talking with them in person is a fairly severe culture shock.

It's interesting to note that they quickly run out of things to say, too. Their opinions really truly are actually quite uninformed and unethical.

I kinda like most of them on a personal level, but they've confirmed my internet-driven suspicion that the conservative Murkn demographic is a bunch of racist, bigoted, superstitious, uneducated-outside-of-what-they-do-for-a-living mouth-breathing knuckle-draggers.

[scumdog]

I kinda like most of them on a personal level, but they've confirmed my internet-driven suspicion that the conservative Murkn demographic is a bunch of racist, bigoted, superstitious, uneducated-outside-of-what-they-do-for-a-living mouth-breathing knuckle-draggers.

Did they originally come from New Zealand??:shifty:

[jrandom]

Did they originally come from New Zealand??

Yeah, your implication's a fair call. The locals are often just as bad in their own way. But they're what I'm used to, so they don't annoy me as much.

:sunny:

I guess you could say that all cunts are cunts, but some cunts are cunts.

[Swoop]

A mormon in power? *shudder*
America had one in power from 2001 - 2009.

Oh, hang on a second... bloody spelling!

[oldrider]

Tom Woods point of view, worth a listen IMO. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBCiMxuX9_g&feature=player_embedded&list=PLALopHfWkFlFXsDIlSx8KisqZM5OotGWq

[James Deuce]

I've been giggling at murkins insisting that Obama is a Communist, which is a fair indicator that the ones insisting that haven't read the Manifesto, at all.

Another irksome thing is our quaint notions that Democrats equate to Labour/Green types and Republicans are National-type people. The truth is that the Democrats are about where National is in the political spectrum and Republicans sit a lot further to the right than National, spanning ACT through to out and out Capitalist Dictator types, not benevolent ones either. Paul Ryan is a scary mofo and he'll be back. Which is not good news for America's rapidly expiring middle class.

I was chatting with Paul in NZ the other day and have followed up with a bit of light reading. He's quite right that in any other country the Republican Party would have fractured, probably about the time Newt Gingrich started ousting moderate Republicans from the Congressional and Senatorial power base and replacing them with the Tea Party crowd who are fundamentally aiming for something the Rockefeller's tried on in the 30s, a fascist coup with a military puppet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler), or at least an ignorant and biddable puppet at the head. Shame Sarah Palin was just so freaking dumb really.

[Big Dave]

The Right V The Further Right.

What about 'I'm going to get more AK47s before they are made illegal' on the Buell moan-fest.

[pzkpfw]

I've been giggling at murkins insisting that Obama is a Communist, which is a fair indicator that the ones insisting that haven't read the Manifesto, at all. ...

I've had the exact same thought. They make me laugh: when denouncing the Democrats with such hysterical propoganda that actual Soviet style communists would be impressed. (Not that I'm saying only "commies" have propoganda...)

[Edbear]

Dang tootin' right there Merv!:D

Ford was offered, turned it down, reckoned they didn't need it. :yes:

[Paul in NZ]

Speaking personally I breathed a sigh of relief... Just the tought of the tea party getting within a 100 miles of the reins of power sent a shudder through me...

A good friend of mine is a retired merkin engineer. A nicer man and wife you could not wish to meet BUT... They are the base on which the tea party surged into influence. White upper middle class, religious, just retired (not volunteerily) and watching their assets disapear in the global melt down they feel let down and betrayed. What they dont see is that was their people that caused this mess and profitted by it. They were not sold out by the lower classes but rather the master of the universe who have suffered not a jot in this mess - so they are angry and confused and are falling back into ulta conservatisim....

To escape they wanted to move here (dunedin actually which says something)

I've been sent the links, read the diatribes and sat in stunned disbelief...

America is a land of immigrants and immigrants change things because successful immigrants have a vitality natives never seem to have. America is changing and hopefull for the better BUT... Look out for the far right because they are tricky and if they can swing enough moderates their way we are all in trouble...

[oldrider]

Do Americans (or anyone else for that matter) actually know what they are voting for?

I found this interesting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Skw-0jv9kts&feature=related

[mashman]

Do Americans (or anyone else for that matter) actually know what they are voting for?

I found this interesting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Skw-0jv9kts&feature=related

Aye... Would the same policies have been implemented and signed by Romney if he had just had 4 years. Absofucknlutely. Hang on, that can't be right, coz that would mean the the president isn't in control of the country.

[Berries]

To escape they wanted to move here (dunedin actually which says something)
We need good hot dogs.





And rendition.

[oldrider]

Aye... Would the same policies have been implemented and signed by Romney if he had just had 4 years. Absofucknlutely. Hang on, that can't be right, coz that would mean the the president isn't in control of the country.

Would we be able to spot the difference? :oi-grr: It looks like the voters don't know the difference if that clip is actually true! :shifty:

[mashman]

Would we be able to spot the difference? :oi-grr: It looks like the voters don't know the difference if that clip is actually true! :shifty:

I certainly wouldn't. I was having a chat with a chum on the chooch the other day and she was trying to convince me that The Democrats and Republicans were different. She told me what their core policies were and when I asked why all bar one of them was law, she clammed. She's a smart smart girl, but it confirmed to me that the shiny baubles touted as ideology are just spin polished marbles of shit. I seems that the little things that crop up during a term aren't in any party manifesto (should we care to look in the first place). But hey, our representatives are doing what's best for everyone, not just the "lobby" groups.

Do you read the policy's of the main party's before an election? How many do ya reckon do? How many do you reckon did once upon a time are were sold the "ideology" and just accept whatever the party then decides to do? T'would seem a like supporting a football team, or a rugby team, or a brand of car etc... dare we change our allegiance or do we support them through thick and thin.

How many people here have been National/Labour/Green/ACT/Monster raving looney party since day 1? Is it a point of principle? Is it the belief in the core ideology? Meh... scratch that, as you were.

[Ocean1]

White upper middle class, religious, just retired (not volunteerily) and watching their assets disapear in the global melt down they feel let down and betrayed. What they dont see is that was their people that caused this mess and profitted by it. They were not sold out by the lower classes but rather the master of the universe who have suffered not a jot in this mess - so they are angry and confused and are falling back into ulta conservatisim....

I can sympathise with them. But, the mortgages that ended up on-sold on the sub-prime market like so many hot potatoes were invented by Republicans?

I know nothing, I'd just assumed that particular lolly scramble had democratic roots.

[James Deuce]

Thoroughly rooted in the Republican camp, leveraging on legislation and Federal institutions created by Roosevelt's Democratic Government.

http://www.sjsu.edu/faculty/watkins/subprime.htm

[Ocean1]

Thoroughly rooted in the Republican camp.

So, unlike here, for example, where such largess is far more likely to be the result of left-ish entities with questionable understanding of market cause/effect, in the US it was the rabid right who orchestrated legislation all but mandating dodgy loans? Presumably in order to provide a foundation on which selected 2nd and 3rd tier financial institutions could benefit from repeatedly short-selling, knowing that subsequent government would make good?

I've taken very little notice of the whole string of events, feel free to re-structure the above.

[sgtp]

some light reading on a rainy indoor day for wellingtonians: http://obamavoterfraud.blogspot.co.nz/

America chose to overlook obama's broken promises, gross incompetence, failed policies, and outright hypocrisy and instead see him as the best president we have ever been so lucky to be ruled by. These obama whackos drool over this guy either thinking his a hottie (he looks pretty effeminate to me, lol) or the second coming of Christ. With a loyal following like his, and the mainstream media in his back pocket, he is immune to all negative criticism. He constantly gets a free pass, something he has enjoyed through what little we know of his past (him? in Harvard? yeah right). When you add this up, and include his visions of fundamentally transforming America (Into what? the socialist wasteland of Europe?), I find this man to be extremely dangerous, and share the fear that is currently being felt by 50% of America right now.

[Ocean1]

Thoroughly rooted in the Republican camp, leveraging on legislation and Federal institutions created by Roosevelt's Democratic Government.

Hmmm. No convinced. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_Raines

Sounds like a thief of Democratic flavour.


Really just confirms my prejudice against allowing anyone to fuck with what should be natural markets. Every time there's a well-intentioned "adjustment", (not to mention downright criminal fingers in the till type activities) some very clever dickies find ways to maximise their take on the situation. And I can't really blame them, it would take a saint to ignore it.

[James Deuce]

So, unlike here, for example, where such largess is far more likely to be the result of left-ish entities with questionable understanding of market cause/effect, in the US it was the rabid right who orchestrated legislation all but mandating dodgy loans? Presumably in order to provide a foundation on which selected 2nd and 3rd tier financial institutions could benefit from repeatedly short-selling, knowing that subsequent government would make good?

I've taken very little notice of the whole string of events, feel free to re-structure the above.

Fundamentally yes, bearing in mind that the Republicans owned Congress and the Senate at the time Clinton was president, making it really hard to moderate the effects of a loosening fiscal policy at the time an Ayn Rand disciple was running the Federal Reserve. A combination of events and legislation meant that mortgage defaulters in the US could simply remove their stuff, lock the door and tell the bank, "Your Problem". This led to the AIG crisis which in turn pummeled our banks and insurance companies, forcing them to call in mortgages that weren't sub-prime, merely a bit risky.

So a fat American walked off his property and couple this with the illegal in NZ practice of mortgage brokers onselling mortgages to another finance institution with their mortgage business underwritten by Fanny Mae and someone in, for instance, New Zealand, lost their house as a direct result. DAMHIK.

[jrandom]

My understanding of the GFC and the subprime issue is that, simply, very high risk debt (that should probably not have been issued in the first place, but, greedy lenders were being given very cheap money by central banks and had to do something with it) was repackaged and on-sold multiple times, with the risk being obfuscated at every turn, not to mention the proceeds of the on-selling then being re-lended again to similar high-risk debtors.

The fundamental issue was the underlying assumption that property values would continue to go up and that the dodgy debt would keep working because of capital gains.

When the bubble burst, the chain collapsed and everyone realised that everybody's money had actually been spent on booze and hookers.

Now there's no money to do jack with, and economies have contracted.

It'll come right in due course but there's a lot of pain in the interim.

Anyway, governmental regulation could've avoided the GFC by:

- regulating money markets to disallow the kind of repackaging and on-selling debt and re-lending of the proceeds that was going on, which basically allowed all the actual liquidity in the economy to get spent on booze and hookers "because capital gains";

- disallowing lending to people who fundamentally couldn't pay it back in the first place.

That sort of thing.

The whole deal is a good example of how regulation of markets can be a good and necessary thing, mostly because people, left unchecked and given temptation, can often be kinda stupid and evil.

[Ocean1]

The whole deal is a good example of how regulation of markets can be a good and necessary thing, mostly because people, left unchecked and given temptation, can often be kinda stupid and evil.

Dunno, kind of seems to me that far from failing to interfere with the market the govt regulated the fuck out of the market, leading to:


lending to people who fundamentally couldn't pay it back in the first place.


And that keeping one's idealistic fantasies well seperate from the real world would have proven a better idea all round.

Except for the above mentioned fat Americans, of course.

[jrandom]

And that keeping one's idealistic fantasies well seperate from the real world would have proven a better idea all round.

I guess so. Dunno. I'm no expert on the topic.

I am very slightly enjoying my inner smugness over the fact that a lot of my acquaintances over the last ten years bought into the BECAUSE CAPITAL GAINS! mantra and hocked themselves up to the eyeballs to purchase residential property.

I was always pretty dubious about the wisdom of it, but attempting to be a naysayer never went down well. Because, you know - capital gains! *mumble mumble handwave-over-the-details*

Told ya so, guys.

[Ocean1]

I guess so. Dunno. I'm no expert on the topic.

I am very slightly enjoying my inner smugness over the fact that a lot of my acquaintances over the last ten years bought into the BECAUSE CAPITAL GAINS! mantra and hocked themselves up to the eyeballs to purchase residential property.

I was always pretty dubious about the wisdom of it, but attempting to be a naysayer never went down well. Because, you know - capital gains! *mumble mumble handwave-over-the-details*

Told ya so, guys.

No, me neither. I'm just sick of both sides fucking with what should be perfectly sensible negative feedback controls on all sorts of markets. In my purely unprofessional perusals of How Shit Works (tm) the only thing I'm moderately sure of is that any time you find an insulating layer between the dude paying for something and the dude benefiting from it you'll get grief.

Trouble is, of course the original fuckers always make sure that the fallout only ever falls upon those who can pay for it, leedingto ever more perverse distortions. Or, as uncle Oscar put it : "if it seems too good to be true then someone's trying to shaft you".

[mashman]

I still find it amusing that people believe that market crashes aren't intentional and that they are things that happen naturally. I may well be wrong, but looking at the historic federal reserve rates, when they go through a "sustained" period of decreasing interest rates, some form of recession takes place and historically the market rebounds as the interest rate starts rising again. Monetary policy I think the federal reserve call it. I guess we now know what happens as the rate keeps decreasing due to monetary policy exposing "brain fart bubbles". I hope the US fly off the fiscal cliff and come crashing down with an almighty boom.

[scumdog]

I hope the US fly off the fiscal cliff and come crashing down with an almighty boom.

Yep, and we'll be SO much better off for it, right?:rolleyes:

[mashman]

Yep, and we'll be SO much better off for it, right?:rolleyes:

heh... nope, we'll be up to our necks in shit, and some. Might even make you do some honest work.

[scumdog]

heh... nope, we'll be up to our necks in shit, and some. Might even make you do some honest work.

I've done my share of that sonny - and still do so! (amazing the people who tell me "don't know If I could ever do you job mate, buggered if I know how you do it" - so I guess I DO do some honest work.

[mashman]

I've done my share of that sonny - and still do so! (amazing the people who tell me "don't know If I could ever do you job mate, buggered if I know how you do it" - so I guess I DO do some honest work.

They probably say that coz they couldn't shaft people just because the letter of the law says so.

[mashman]

I've done my share of that sonny - and still do so! (amazing the people who tell me "don't know If I could ever do you job mate, buggered if I know how you do it" - so I guess I DO do some honest work.

They probably say that coz they couldn't shaft people just because the letter of the law says so, pops.

[Ocean1]

I still find it amusing that people believe that market crashes aren't intentional and that they are things that happen naturally.

You astonish me, there's a link between official cash rates and national economic health?

While your giggling explain what dastardly mechanism are at work, there dude, eh?

[scumdog]

They probably say that coz they couldn't shaft people just because the letter of the law says so, pops.

I ain't THAT thick ya need to tell me twice.

And next time somebody says as I said previously I'll ask them if mashman is right - 100 to 1 ya ain't, d'ya feel luck punk, do ya???

[mashman]

You astonish me, there's a link between official cash rates and national economic health?

While your giggling explain what dastardly mechanism are at work, there dude, eh?

:rofl: yup.

It's called Monetary Policy. It affects all sorts of things apparently, including inflation and the addition and removal of vast amount of money available to the economy. Given that the entire economy revolves around money, why would the people who control the economy allow it to fall into recession?


I ain't THAT thick ya need to tell me twice.

And next time somebody says as I said previously I'll ask them if mashman is right - 100 to 1 ya ain't, d'ya feel luck punk, do ya???

heh, haven't had a double post for a while...

Make my day.

[Ocean1]

Given that the entire economy revolves around money, why would the people who control the economy allow it to fall into recession?


Dunno. Maybe the economy falls into recession in spite of tweaks to monetory policy. P'raps making cash easier to borrow, for example doesn't stimulate spending enough once it becomes obvious that borrowing money in a contracting economy is a bad idea.

I guess in the long run fucking with controls on public money doesn't really change the behaviour of thse who have private money to spend. Or not.

[mashman]

Dunno. Maybe the economy falls into recession in spite of tweaks to monetory policy. P'raps making cash easier to borrow, for example doesn't stimulate spending enough once it becomes obvious that borrowing money in a contracting economy is a bad idea.

I guess in the long run fucking with controls on public money doesn't really change the behaviour of thse who have private money to spend. Or not.

That could well be the case, the correlation could just be coincidence :shifty: or it could be the fed trying to preempt and mitigate the rumour mill... who knows what those crazy cats get up to. According to them economics folks, easy money drives up inflation, which makes money less valuable, which in some strange circles probably makes it less attractive as it's cheap to borrow... then when rates rise again it becomes expensive to pay back (if you didn't/couldn't pay it back at the rate borrowed)... bummer for those holding mortgages I guess... which, unfortunately makes some form of perverse sense. Greenspan drops a smellier fart than usual and the world nearly collapses.

Tis only the plebs who have public money, joe bloggs, govts and the like :eek:... the private money holders are mainly asset based aren't they? Either way they command some impressive lines of credit. Wonder how Ellison is getting on with his island.

[oldrider]

Running a complete power system and grid would be similar to running the monetary system, if it isn't balanced it isn't going to work properly.

All man made and designed to serve the needs of mankind rather than the greed of mankind.

The faulty power system would be corrected very quickly but a faulty monetary system is dependant on getting the greedy "people" sorted.

The greedy people are protected by stupid politicians who have no idea about how either system works or why! :brick:

They can fool some of the people some of the time but in monetary matters they fool all of the people all of the time!

Give me control of the finances of the world, I care not who makes the laws: Lord Rothschild ... he knew exactly what he was saying and why!

They give us elections to occupy our minds on things that have no consequence, American presidential is the standard of stupidity desired! :moon:

[mashman]

Running a complete power system and grid would be similar to running the monetary system, if it isn't balanced it isn't going to work properly.

All man made and designed to serve the needs of mankind rather than the greed of mankind.

Aaaaaand like all systems, the best ones are simple and free :blip:

[scumdog]

Aaaaaand like all systems, the best ones are simple and free :blip:

You could build a hydro-electric scheme for no cost??:confused:

[oldrider]

You could build a hydro-electric scheme for no cost??:confused:

Eventually, if you use Social Credit it can be done but not on the current Social Debt system! :wait:

[mashman]

You could build a hydro-electric scheme for no cost??:confused:

I depends on who you elect :bleh:

[scumdog]

I depends on who you elect :bleh:

Tell me more - I would be interested in a political party that would do stuff for free, no money up front!

And have it done like right now.

[mashman]

Tell me more - I would be interested in a political party that would do stuff for free, no money up front!

And have it done like right now.

:killingme you're taunting me arentcha - any political party could do stuff for free if they chose to.

Nothing need change, completely as it is right now. You are perceived to have X amount of $$$, let that perception continue without the actual $$$ needing to be in your pocket or bank. NZ will still be generating wealth, however resources "produced" in NZ would be free. There would still be a GDP for the rest of the world to suckle upon and most of society's ills vanish. Et voila, free hydro-electric scheme... Perception is everything :yes:

[oldrider]

Tell me more - I would be interested in a political party that would do stuff for free, no money up front!

And have it done like right now.

The private banks do that now ... they honour their own cheques!

Ever see a bank without a building etc and all the facilities they need to work with and from?

Look up "Democrats for Social Credit" I think their Webb site will have it there in plain enough English.

[Oscar]

By its nature this is a fundamentalist and expansionist religion dedicated to recruiting as many members as possible and it is NOT a religion of tolerance, arguably due to its history.



The main religious groups in the US (and NZ for that matter) could be described thusly.

[Oscar]

The private banks do that now ... they honour their own cheques!

Ever see a bank without a building etc and all the facilities they need to work with and from?

Look up "Democrats for Social Credit" I think their Webb site will have it there in plain enough English.

Pray tell how one would run a bank without a building and all the facililities?
From a tent, with an abacus??

[Oscar]

..simple and free :blip:

Sums you up to a tee!

[Paul in NZ]

The main religious groups in the US (and NZ for that matter) could be described thusly.

Ha - yes, indeed, nearly all religions could be depending on where you sit.

In this case I'm more meaning that fundamentalism is the demand for a strict adherence to specific theological doctrines usually understood as a reaction against Modernist theology. (see link below) The Anglicans etc are all considering things like gay marriage and making accommodations and the Mormons are a wee way behind the current thinking on this stuff... Also many of the established churches are loosing ground in the white middle classes while the Mormons are still actively recruiting.

In the religious context 'fundamentalism' is a funny term. Originally it applied to Protestant Communities in the USA

see here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamentalism

Mormons have their own book and believe its for real. Its interesting to note that there has been a fair bit of revision of their systems though. Usually resulting in financial / membership gains and there are sects withing the Mormon world that reject this and are really quite stroppy about the whole deal.

The really right wing christian types in the USA kind regard the Mormons as a sect. Albeit a hard working, thrifty family values type sect that fits very well with the American ideal. Hence they can tolerate Mitt.

Had he been elected I think there would have been some really big social issues crop up that would distract the govt from solving the real issues of unemployment and a spluttering economy. Nothing like dragging up the abortion issue to scupper that for a few months.

[mashman]

Sums you up to a tee!

Coming from Sheeple that means absolutely nothing.

[Oscar]

Coming from Sheeple that means absolutely nothing.

Too many big words for you?

[Oscar]

Ha - yes, indeed, nearly all religions could be depending on where you sit.

In this case I'm more meaning that fundamentalism is the demand for a strict adherence to specific theological doctrines usually understood as a reaction against Modernist theology. (see link below) The Anglicans etc are all considering things like gay marriage and making accommodations and the Mormons are a wee way behind the current thinking on this stuff... Also many of the established churches are loosing ground in the white middle classes while the Mormons are still actively recruiting.

In the religious context 'fundamentalism' is a funny term. Originally it applied to Protestant Communities in the USA

see here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamentalism

Mormons have their own book and believe its for real. Its interesting to note that there has been a fair bit of revision of their systems though. Usually resulting in financial / membership gains and there are sects withing the Mormon world that reject this and are really quite stroppy about the whole deal.

The really right wing christian types in the USA kind regard the Mormons as a sect. Albeit a hard working, thrifty family values type sect that fits very well with the American ideal. Hence they can tolerate Mitt.

Had he been elected I think there would have been some really big social issues crop up that would distract the govt from solving the real issues of unemployment and a spluttering economy. Nothing like dragging up the abortion issue to scupper that for a few months.

I did find the Mormon scaremongering quite ironic considering what the Christian Right Wing has been up to in US over the last few decades. I haven’t seen any specific evidence of Romney’s religion being a problem (say like the footage of Palin having the demons cast out).

[Paul in NZ]

I did find the Mormon scaremongering quite ironic considering what the Christian Right Wing has been up to in US over the last few decades. I haven’t seen any specific evidence of Romney’s religion being a problem (say like the footage of Palin having the demons cast out).

Mormons by nature tend to be fairly right of center but not quite over the horizon and beyond the dungeons of the inquisition right.. But from where they stand you can get a good view of them... I have some considerable personal experience of Mormonism and to be fair they are adaptable (slightly) and reasonably good natured at the civilian level. The command level ones tend to be a bit 'sticky'...

The religion issue always haunts American Politics from the Catholic Kennedy's to who ever. Funnily enough the extreme right evangelical merkins didn't seem to have much of an issue with him as they respect people with a strong 'faith'. (as long as its a big brand christian one) I suspect he lost a lot of the middle ground moderates though and in that election it could be the difference between winning and loosing.

One of the things that would have changed once he was in power would be abortion reform. Its a very emotive issue and there would have been blood spilled (well - ok - MORE blood) over it. Then gay rights etc and there was a lot of potential for un needed distractions. But the real issue that I think killed the Republicans was immigration/race.

Romney won the votes of 59 percent of whites, 52 percent of men and 78 percent of white evangelicals.

Obama claimed 55 percent of women, 60 percent of voters under 30, 93 percent of African-Americans and more than 70 percent of Latinos and Asians.

Republicans won the white vote by 20 points and still lost!!!!

American has always been a land of immigrants but now the older waves are established and the newer ones are a different shade of pink so having a candidate that can span the changing demographic is essential. A rich Mormon is REALLY going to struggle to do that. Its only recently (1978) that in a letter, the first presidency of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints proclaimed that “all worthy male members of the Church may be ordained to the priesthood without regard for race or color.”

Men of African descent could now hold the priesthood, the power and authority exercised by all male members of the church in good standing. Such a statement was necessary, because until then, blacks were relegated to a very second-class status within the church.

Why was that important? Because in the great membership race in the Pacific the Mormons were getting their arses kicked by the competition. ie Black people in the USA didn't believe a word of it and still regard the church as essentially racist. Its still sexist (all MEN) and effectively its still racist so yes - he had a religion problem....

[oldrider]

Pray tell how one would run a bank without a building and all the facililities?
From a tent, with an abacus??

My point is that they end up with a paid up "asset" where any one else ends up with a debt loaded "liability"!

I.E. You only want one town hall but you borrow from the bank and end up paying for about three or four!

The banks float the loan, build, cancel the debt and are home free on only one transaction and only by book entry they end up with an asset.

[Oscar]

My point is that they end up with a paid up "asset" where any one else ends up with a debt loaded "liability"!

I.E. You only want one town hall but you borrow from the bank and end up paying for about three or four!

The banks float the loan, build, cancel the debt and are home free on only one transaction and only by book entry they end up with an asset.

I'm sorry to disabuse you of your hard earned prejudices’, but banks don't actually own that many buildings. You'll find they usually are only tenants and own the naming rights.

[Oscar]

Mormons by nature tend to be fairly right of center but not quite over the horizon and beyond the dungeons of the inquisition right.. But from where they stand you can get a good view of them... I have some considerable personal experience of Mormonism and to be fair they are adaptable (slightly) and reasonably good natured at the civilian level. The command level ones tend to be a bit 'sticky'...

The religion issue always haunts American Politics from the Catholic Kennedy's to who ever. Funnily enough the extreme right evangelical merkins didn't seem to have much of an issue with him as they respect people with a strong 'faith'. (as long as its a big brand christian one) I suspect he lost a lot of the middle ground moderates though and in that election it could be the difference between winning and loosing.

One of the things that would have changed once he was in power would be abortion reform. Its a very emotive issue and there would have been blood spilled (well - ok - MORE blood) over it. Then gay rights etc and there was a lot of potential for un needed distractions. But the real issue that I think killed the Republicans was immigration/race.

Romney won the votes of 59 percent of whites, 52 percent of men and 78 percent of white evangelicals.

Obama claimed 55 percent of women, 60 percent of voters under 30, 93 percent of African-Americans and more than 70 percent of Latinos and Asians.

Republicans won the white vote by 20 points and still lost!!!!

American has always been a land of immigrants but now the older waves are established and the newer ones are a different shade of pink so having a candidate that can span the changing demographic is essential. A rich Mormon is REALLY going to struggle to do that. Its only recently (1978) that in a letter, the first presidency of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints proclaimed that “all worthy male members of the Church may be ordained to the priesthood without regard for race or color.”

Men of African descent could now hold the priesthood, the power and authority exercised by all male members of the church in good standing. Such a statement was necessary, because until then, blacks were relegated to a very second-class status within the church.

Why was that important? Because in the great membership race in the Pacific the Mormons were getting their arses kicked by the competition. ie Black people in the USA didn't believe a word of it and still regard the church as essentially racist. Its still sexist (all MEN) and effectively its still racist so yes - he had a religion problem....


Interestly, some of the biggest critics of the Mormon Church decided that they had to vote for the white devil, as opposed to the black one...


Concerns that Mitt Romney's Mormonism would put off white evangelical voters did not bear out at the polls Tuesday.

Seventy-eight percent of white evangelical Christians went for Romney, according to exit poll results, up from 74 percent for the 2008 Republican presidential nominee, John McCain. White evangelical Christians made up 26 percent of the electorate this year, as they did in 2008.

http://www.columbiatribune.com/news/2012/nov/10/white-evangelicals-catholics-supported-romney/

http://www.christianpost.com/news/poll-white-evangelicals-who-say-mormons-not-christian-strongly-back-romney-74727/

These people still voted Republican, even though their Churches do not allow that Mormonism is Christianity.

[MisterD]

These people still voted Republican, even though their Churches do not allow that Mormonism is Christianity.

Yeah, but it sort of looks a bit like Christianity and most of those voters will be utterly convinced that Obama is either not America, or a Muslim, or both.

[oldrider]

I'm sorry to disabuse you of your hard earned prejudices’, but banks don't actually own that many buildings. You'll find they usually are only tenants and own the naming rights.

Probably true but it's just mind over matter to me .... I don't mind because it really doesn't matter! :no: you missed the point by miles! :confused:

[mashman]

Too many big words for you?

baaaaaaaaa

[Oscar]

Probably true but it's just mind over matter to me .... I don't mind because it really doesn't matter! :no: you missed the point by miles! :confused:

No I didn't, you were have a shot at the Banks owning lots o' property (and missed by miles).

[Oscar]

baaaaaaaaa

I see your vocabulary hasn't improved.
This is KiwiBiker you know, not www.conspiracywankers.com - you'll have to up yer game...

[Ocean1]

This is KiwiBiker you know, not www.conspiracywankers.com

I can see where he gets confused with that.

[mashman]

I see your vocabulary hasn't improved.
This is KiwiBiker you know, not www.conspiracywankers.com - you'll have to up yer game...

Another baaaaaa for you as you seem to have shot your bolt back in the 80's when you were a radical :killingme. Ooooo look, the price of bacon is going up I see.

[scumdog]

Another baaaaaa for you as you seem to have shot your bolt back in the 80's when you were a radical :killingme. Ooooo look, the price of bacon is going up I see.

Oh I hope not - I'm just about to tuck into a bacon-buttie!

[Oscar]

Another baaaaaa for you as you seem to have shot your bolt back in the 80's when you were a radical :killingme. Ooooo look, the price of bacon is going up I see.

I must say, you never let looking like a complete fuckwit get in the way of a lame catch phrase.
The whole sheeple thing was funny the first time.
























































Nah, actually it was always pretty lame.
Feel free to continue using it, though - it never hurts to remind us what a doofus you really are.

[mashman]

Oh I hope not - I'm just about to tuck into a bacon-buttie!

The alternative was you taking to the skies... and whilst I thought it amusing, I thought I'd go for shock an awe.


I must say, you never let looking like a complete idjut get in the way of a lame catch phrase.
The whole sheeple thing was funny the first time.


baaaaaaaaa

[Oscar]

baaaaaaaaa

Did your girlfriend tell you that?
She's obviously the brains of the outfit.