Smart phones and racing

[Wingnut]

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2012/11/race-sense/

[schrodingers cat]

What would be far cooler would be to use the phone camera for an oncoming rider recognition app that would tell you if you should wave or not

[WRT]

Looks like it will be a good app when it's released, I wonder how much it will go for. I use Harry's Lap Timer Pro (http://www.gps-laptimer.de/Home.html) ($20) and Max Speed (http://on-core.com/maxspeed/index.php) (free, but pretty basic in functionality). Either of those will output a log to Google Earth, or can be used with programs like Dashware or Race Render to overlay data on your video footage.

For best results you really need an external GPS receiver, the inbuilt ones aren't really accurate enough to be reliable at higher speeds. I use a Dual Electronics XGPS which gives better accuracy but is only 1hz (meaning location/speed fixes are only recorded once a second).

[Dave-]

There's one called trackmaster on android which I tried, I didn't want to mount it on the bike so popped it in the pocket of my leathers.

on the back straight of ruapuna it lost satellite connectivity so used the accelerometers to compensate, and well I pasted through 2 walls onto the oval circuit then back through 2 walls to make the hairpin.

The other one that's quite interesting is building your own datalogger with an arduino or similar development board.

Is anyone in NZ racing actually using data though?

[steveyb]

The track mapping, lap-timing, speed-on-time-on-distance, acceleration (-ve and +ve) and video linking capabilities of the Q-Starz GPS loggers, or built-in OEM systems are definitely being used by several riders to improve their performances.
The information provided makes making improvements subtle, but improvements are certainly available with this type of gear.
Available from Biggles Racing.

[SWERVE]

Data aquisition is only as good as the person analysing it. Having spent many/many hours going through motorcycle data for my old drag race team (and studing the binary charts) it is a VERY valuable tool indeed.
Also stops the rider bullshitting to much

[schrodingers cat]

Sorry to say but 1Hz relegates it to 'toy' category.
For GPS you want 5Hz. Some of the smarter stuff now has clever gubbins inside to generate virtual 20Hz.

I play with cars a lot and at a high level. I own a whole bunch of data logging stuff (GPS based with video intergration)
I given up offering my gear and time (for free cause I'm curious) to bike guys cause no one ever chases me up to do it

Data allows gains in efficiency. It allows you to get more value from the mileage you do.
It generates questions which in turn drives development

And, if you knew much about the subject, a professional system can be had for the price of approx 4 tyres

[RDjase]

The track mapping, lap-timing, speed-on-time, acceleration (-ve and +ve) and video linking capabilities of the Q-Starz GPS loggers, or built-in OEM systems are definitely being used by several riders to improve their performances.
The information provided makes making improvements subtle, but improvements are certainly available with this type of gear.

+1 on the Q-Starz Steve !

Great tool, much prefer something designed to do one job well than some expensive (much more then a Q-Starz) phone that does lots of stuff averagely. 1Hz may be ok for running or cycling but rubbish at speed

BTW you cant play Angry Birds on a Q-Starz

[Dave-]

Sorry to say but 1Hz relegates it to 'toy' category.
For GPS you want 5Hz. Some of the smarter stuff now has clever gubbins inside to generate virtual 20Hz.


I'd argue 10Hz.

But the point is still the same.

The limiting factor is the clock speed of the average android phone, so yes while there are some grunty S2's and S3's out there, they cost almost as much as a Qstars or similar product, and do half a job.

edit: can anyone actually tell me who is using the data? I see lots of dataloggers in the paddock, but don't hear much torque (haha) about it.

[schrodingers cat]

I'd argue 10Hz.

But the point is still the same.

The limiting factor is the clock speed of the average android phone, so yes while there are some grunty S2's and S3's out there, they cost almost as much as a Qstars or similar product, and do half a job.

edit: can anyone actually tell me who is using the data? I see lots of dataloggers in the paddock, but don't hear much torque (haha) about it.


5 Hz is the update rate from the satellite.
It is useful for a speed trace because the speed is actual and unaffected by slip etc
As a raw trace its still pretty boxy but if you combine with accelerometers at min 50Hz it tidies up well.

I'd look at fuel pressure or water temp at 10Hz but not much else

[Kickaha]

I given up offering my gear and time (for free cause I'm curious) to bike guys cause no one ever chases me up to do it
What would you charge for your time and gear if someone wanted to run it?

[SWERVE]

I'd argue 10Hz.

edit: can anyone actually tell me who is using the data? I see lots of dataloggers in the paddock, but don't hear much torque (haha) about it.
Thats because the whole idea of data is to gain an advantage over the opposition.......... so shouting about it is not the thing to do.

[Biggles08]

I use and sell the qstarz Lt-q6000 via my webpage biggglesracingproducts.co.nz and it is a10htz unit. Basically it reviews it's position ten times every second which makes for very accurate data collected. this system also has a color screen to show Lap times and other on the fly information. it's excellent value at only $600 at the moment however, I am selling more of these units to car racers than motorcycle racers which I find interesting. We seem to be hell bent on still using beacons instead of gps for our lap times. These units, along with many other features have g force/ accelerometers inbuilt so give you far more info than a beacon unit ever could.
I am still getting my head around all the data it can provide and making some positive changes due to this abundance of information and I also agree that alot is in the analysing stage if you are to get the best from these types of units.

[steveyb]

edit: can anyone actually tell me who is using the data? I see lots of dataloggers in the paddock, but don't hear much torque (haha) about it.

We use the Q-Starz at Moto Academy NZ to help riders with their on-track efficiency.
It is a bit tough with young inexperienced riders, so we only use it at a basic level, but with my mate who is more experienced and races Honda Cup (used to race bikes), we found 1sec per lap at Manfeild by analysing his laps there.

[wharfy]

I used a Starlane GPS lap timer until I cooked it (put a fuse in the line to the battery if you have a hard wired unit !).
I didn't talk about it much 'cause it showed how slow I was going :)
One feature it did have that was VERY useful was the flashing indicator for best time for a section that session.

[Dave-]

so ive been told that you need a 2nd rider in your "team" to make the data work properly.

i realise in motorcycle racing your team mate is the first guy to beat, so that's a contradiction.

experienced guys, your thoughts?

[Biggles08]

so ive been told that you need a 2nd rider in your "team" to make the data work properly.

i realise in motorcycle racing your team mate is the first guy to beat, so that's a contradiction.

experienced guys, your thoughts?

I don't agree with that...I think whomever told you that was talking about MotoGP level evaluation where all the riders are on a similar level.

With the QSTARZ LT-Q6000 (and I'm sure other gps timers too) you can compare your best laps and sectors with each other (on your PC later when you are analyzing the laps with the software supplied). It also shows your combined theoretical "best lap" by taking each of your best sectors and putting them together to give your own personal theoretical 'best lap' which is a great place to start aiming for. Basically, you need to have data that is workable to make improvements for you...we all know what another riders best lap can be but it doesn't help you unless you know where you are fast and slow so you can improve on the slow sectors/corners.

Not sure that made sense to you but I know what I'm trying to say :-P

have a read of the features for yourself

http://www.bigglesracingproducts.co.nz/QSTARZ_10Hz_Lap_Timer__LT-Q6000/p1598068_7568037.aspx