ACC training providers announced

[Pro Rider]

ACC Funding for motorcycle coaching programs - the successful providers are:
Pro Rider for Northland, Auckland & Waikato.
Roadsafe for Lower North Island/Top of South
Dan Ornsby Motorcycle training for Central/Lower South Island.

This means you have a chance to get some of your ACC levy money back in the form of national coaching from these 3 providers..... its the only way we have a chance of lowering the bike rego cost - by reducing the accident and injury rate in NZ. Get yourself booked into these programs that will be coming up in an area near you.... regardless of what level your riding is at - we can always benefit from honing our skills for safer riding on the road.

[MadDuck]

Is there an official link to this announcement?

I look forward to what "on road" training Pro Rider is going to provide.

[Haggis2]

Good news right there and get into some training peoples. Good luck wth rego costs coming back down though :brick:

[Pro Rider]

Is there an official link to this announcement?
It will be on the Rideforever website soon

I look forward to what "on road" training Pro Rider is going to provide.
Pro Rider uses a variety of venues and locations, including some very nice roads - theres a SmartRider course this Saturday in Auckland

[MadDuck]

Pro Rider uses a variety of venues and locations, including some very nice roads - theres a SmartRider course this Saturday in Auckland

Thanks for responding. I note however on the Pro Rider website:

"Prior Learning Requirement for SmartRider Day
You must have attended at least 1 SafeRider course prior to the SmartRider course"

This Saferider course is on a track is it not? I guess what I have a concern about is that the prerequesite for ACC funded "motorcycle" training takes place on a track which most insurance companies do not cover for even if it is closed.

[Tricia1000]

Where, when and how much. I might be keen..
Tricia
ACC Funding for motorcycle coaching programs - the successful providers are:
Pro Rider for Northland, Auckland & Waikato.
Roadsafe for Lower North Island/Top of South
Dan Ornsby Motorcycle training for Central/Lower South Island.

This means you have a chance to get some of your ACC levy money back in the form of national coaching from these 3 providers..... its the only way we have a chance of lowering the bike rego cost - by reducing the accident and injury rate in NZ. Get yourself booked into these programs that will be coming up in an area near you.... regardless of what level your riding is at - we can always benefit from honing our skills for safer riding on the road.

[bluninja]

I disagree slightly....if you don't practice what you've learnt/received regularly it won't stay forever.

I remember all the 'born again bikers' jumping back on bikes after a long absence, and they had lots of accidents. I'm sure some of them had really good training.

[Tricia1000]

I would like to book on to one of these courses. Can't find it on your website though.
How much will you get paid from ACC per customer? Is it the usual $100+GST?
What time is the course on Saturday, and where is the venue??
Tricia
Pro Rider uses a variety of venues and locations, including some very nice roads - theres a SmartRider course this Saturday in Auckland

[caspernz]

Thanks for responding. I note however on the Pro Rider website:

"Prior Learning Requirement for SmartRider Day
You must have attended at least 1 SafeRider course prior to the SmartRider course"

This Saferider course is on a track is it not? I guess what I have a concern about is that the prerequesite for ACC funded "motorcycle" training takes place on a track which most insurance companies do not cover for even if it is closed.

"Track day" coverage is troublesome, "training day" coverage on a track much easier to obtain, albeit with a bigger excess. If you're afraid of falling off on a track, rest assured you're gonna be at much bigger risk of this on the road :eek5:

Practising bike handling skills on a closed track is a safer proposition than trying it on the road, but hey what would I know, I've only done a few of these courses over the years...on bikes, in cars and even trucks...good informative fun :2thumbsup

[MadDuck]

If you're afraid of falling off on a track, rest assured you're gonna be at much bigger risk of this on the road :eek5

Not sure how you came to this conclusion as I never mention falling off at all or my fear of anything.

You have however confirmed what I was trying to say. If the insurance company wants a bigger excess for a "training" day then they see it as higher risk. To me it seems odd that ACC has gone down that road that is all. But it depends what they are trying to achieve and I dont know what that actually is which is why I ask the questions.

[caspernz]

You have however confirmed what I was trying to say. If the insurance company wants a bigger excess for a "training" day then they see it as higher risk.

Yeah well, I can see the irony in that bigger excess myself. The basic idea of training on a track is simple, controlled environment, everyone going the same direction etc. Then apply the finetuned bike control skills on public roads. Quite easy to see how ACC find this beneficial me thinks...:innocent:

[nzspokes]

its the only way we have a chance of lowering the bike rego cost

So you will reduce my rego if I come and do your course. Nice. I presume you give a refund on the $100 as the last acc course I did was very good and free.

[nzspokes]

Yeah well, I can see the irony in that bigger excess myself. The basic idea of training on a track is simple, controlled environment, everyone going the same direction etc. Then apply the finetuned bike control skills on public roads. Quite easy to see how ACC find this beneficial me thinks...:innocent:

From my understanding of what Maduck is saying is that to do the course you have to attend a paid for track day first.

Im suspicious.

[Usarka]

Yes you can do the ACC course but first you have to pay for training on a closed track at full price. I wonder if ACC know their providers are doing this....

If so, it's probably so they can turn around and say "we tried to help them but no one was interested in our training...."

[Highlander]

I have attended a couple of Training days held on tracks (two at Taupo, one at Hampton Downs). I am insured with AMI and have never had any issues with coverage, not that I have had to make a track related claim - possible that may change things. I have always called and spoken with the manager of the local branch and advised of the training day and checked I would be covered if it all goes wrong, never been any mention of higher excess for the day.

The thing I don't like about Track Training days is there is always some spastic twit determined to pass on the inside as you are tipping into a corner (usually the Hairpin). Freaks me out every time and is the reason I left the last day early. That is what is making me reluctant to do one of these courses.

What do you charge for a couple of hours one on one instruction on the road?

[James Deuce]

This means you have a chance to get some of your ACC levy money back in the form of national coaching from these 3 providers..... its the only way we have a chance of lowering the bike rego cost - by reducing the accident and injury rate in NZ.

umm, rubbish. Rego will never, ever be cheaper.

In regard to the second point, the accident and injury rate has never been lower per head of motorcycle riding capita and is trending downward.

IMO it is utter bullshit that track days give you any kind of training for road conditions. They're fun, and you do stuff with your bike you had no idea it or you were capable of, but it provides no help at all when you are faced with a speeding Police car running a red light at 5:30 am, before you've had your first coffee.

[HD'er]

Perhaps we should pen a letter to the ACC people, to tell them of the poor choices they have made with all out ACC money. I mean 3 trainers for the whole country?? two of those are track racers I heard. A friend of mine did a road riding course with Prorider, and said it was a joke.
I am going to send a email to Lindsay Johnston Lindsay Johnson MCIPS Senior Category Manager, Print and Logistics, ACC) ACC, Lindsay Johnson <Lindsay.Johnson@acc.co.nz> and ACC / Corporate Procurement / Level 11, Vogel Centre, 19 Aitken Street
PO Box 242 / Wellington 6011 / New Zealand / www.acc.co.nz, also
Sara Hay, Corporate Procurement Manager, on 04 816 5471 or 027 6866672.
this is our acc money, and I think they are wasting it. We deserve a say in this.
It's just stupid, having to do a track day, before a road riding day... and I don't fancy having to ride to welly to go to the other trainer.




Thanks for responding. I note however on the Pro Rider website:

"Prior Learning Requirement for SmartRider Day
You must have attended at least 1 SafeRider course prior to the SmartRider course"

This Saferider course is on a track is it not? I guess what I have a concern about is that the prerequesite for ACC funded "motorcycle" training takes place on a track which most insurance companies do not cover for even if it is closed.

[Qkkid]

Yes i agree, there is never meant to be a precursor to do a full price Track course (its all about grabbing the $$$$'s) to be able to gain access to do a free / subsidised course which is paid by ACC which is your money:yes:
So the more people who reply back to Lindsay johnson @acc.co.nz the better.
It was crazy that all the way from Waikato-Tauraunga up to Northland only one provider for that whole region ,people are going to miss out because of the travel/time of the people and the "Small minded short sightedness of ACC"
It should be free to all and accessed by every "Riding School" throughout the region:2thumbsup
However thats just my opinion;)


Perhaps we should pen a letter to the ACC people, to tell them of the poor choices they have made with all out ACC money. I mean 3 trainers for the whole country?? two of those are track racers I heard. A friend of mine did a road riding course with Prorider, and said it was a joke.
I am going to send a email to Lindsay Johnston Lindsay Johnson MCIPS Senior Category Manager, Print and Logistics, ACC) ACC, Lindsay Johnson <Lindsay.Johnson@acc.co.nz> and ACC / Corporate Procurement / Level 11, Vogel Centre, 19 Aitken Street
PO Box 242 / Wellington 6011 / New Zealand / www.acc.co.nz, also
Sara Hay, Corporate Procurement Manager, on 04 816 5471 or 027 6866672.
this is our acc money, and I think they are wasting it. We deserve a say in this.
It's just stupid, having to do a track day, before a road riding day... and I don't fancy having to ride to welly to go to the other trainer.




Thanks for responding. I note however on the Pro Rider website:

"Prior Learning Requirement for SmartRider Day
You must have attended at least 1 SafeRider course prior to the SmartRider course"

This Saferider course is on a track is it not? I guess what I have a concern about is that the prerequesite for ACC funded "motorcycle" training takes place on a track which most insurance companies do not cover for even if it is closed.

[MadDuck]

Perhaps we should pen a letter to the ACC people, to tell them of the poor choices they have made with all out ACC money. I mean 3 trainers for the whole country??

This is a great idea. I personally would wait until the "official" announcement has been made with specific details before doing this though.

[James Deuce]

Bearing in mind that any perceived backlash from motorcyclists complaining about being given training will be a very powerful PR tool for ACC.

[MadDuck]

Bearing in mind that any perceived backlash from motorcyclists complaining about being given training will be a very powerful PR tool for ACC.

We can't win really can we?

[James Deuce]

Not even with all the high profile charity work different motorcycle related organisations have done across the years behind us.

It's what I bleated about last time. We need to have a prepared PR campaign that is bubbling along in the public eye, all the time. Pushing the positive improvement in stats on a monthly basis, highlighting people commuting on two wheels (there's more and more of them all the time and many are riding scooters) discussing the self-accessed training programmes, talking about ratuscat's positive approach to modifying road-user behaviour from the perspective of a Police Officer, so that when we do suggest that the training suggested by ACC may not meet the needs of its biggest market, we look like we are making a positive critique and commenting on the desire to make this training more accessible, instead of whiny babies who were gifted an opportunity (yes, I know we paid for it - the "public" will never understand that) and then moaned that it isn't good enough.

[Subike]

I went on a subsidized advanced open road course with mainland Riding here in Christchurch today.
Was it worth it? Yes because I learnt a couple of things. What the adhesion limits of my tires were under sever braking.
The road signs with recommended speeds for corners all say different things, and learning to read the signs makes my ride more comfortable.
How much more trust I can put into the front wheels grip on a down hill road, and why.
That I ride too close to the left of the road in open road areas, where I would have a low reaction time if an animal of any sort decided to cross in front of me.
I recommend doing any sort of training you can get, even learning one small thing, makes it worth it. So go for it if you can.

[caseye]

OK, so in a nut shell, we've had an announcement from one of the three accredited training providers.
We've had some dialogue with pro rider, right up to the point where MD asked some very good and enlightening questions.
Since then, NOTHING.
Telling us in one breath that we "should" make use of ACC's offer of training, but of course there's a fucking catch!
Got to do a closed course track training day that costs, um how much again?
Keep asking the questions MD, the FBMC Security detail will ride again at this rate.
:angry2:

[MadDuck]

I went on a subsidized advanced open road course with mainland Riding here in Christchurch today.
Was it worth it? Yes because I learnt a couple of things. The road signs with recommended speeds for corners all say different things, and learning to read the signs makes my ride more comfortable.


Was this training on the open road or on a track? I have never seen these "road signs" on Pukekohe, Hampton Downs, Taupo or Manfeild unless you are referring to the braking signs.

[Subike]

Was this training on the open road or on a track? I have never seen these "road signs" on Pukekohe, Hampton Downs, Taupo or Manfeild unless you are referring to the braking signs.

open road riding Mad Duck. ChCh to Akaroa and back.
But the provider of the training course has arranged evening track days latter this month on Ruapuna for $50, and if your insured with Vero, riding under the course providers flag, then your insurance is valid for the track time. Also when providing the certificate of attendance to Vero when paying your premium, you get the $50 back as a reduction on you next years premium. Win win in my book.

[Berries]

The road signs with recommended speeds for corners all say different things, and learning to read the signs makes my ride more comfortable.
Can you expand on that? You have obviously been riding for a few years, so what did you actually learn about those signs?

[Subike]

Can you expand on that? You have obviously been riding for a few years, so what did you actually learn about those signs?

look at the yellow signs, they indicate differing radius's of the corner, from a gentle left or right curve , to a tightening hair pin.
For example , approaching a right hand corner, and you see a left hand corner sigh just before it, with a 35kph posting. This means the right hander can be taken at 100k, but leads immediately into a 35k left hander. So you can position yourself on the road in the right place to brake and take the left hander at a safe speed, rather than have it just appear with a wtf moment.
Say you are approaching a left hander, and the sign shows an s bend @ 55k, but the first curve is to the right? What? The corner you are entering is ok at 100kph, but is followed immediately by a series of s bends starting with a right hander. Think about where you want to be on the road for that right hander as you negotiate the left hander. And your already prepared for the flip flop into the S's.
There are the signs that will indicate a blind intersecting road, on the inside of the bend. seeing this tells you not to close apex the corner in case a vehicle is comming out of that blind corner, which you will run into because neither of you will see each other. late apexing the corner, at such a speed you can see the intersecting road will give you the room to avoid any vehicle blindly entering your path.
On your next ride, take note of what these speed signs say , other than its a left or right hander at X recommended speed. You will soon see they give way more information about the corner than what you first might think.

[Berries]

Cheers, I actually misread what you said there for a minute but yes, you are correct.

For those others who might have misread what you said though, if it is a reverse curve and the second curve has the lower speed that lower speed will be the speed on the sign. Do not therefore assume you can take the first curve at normal road speed and set yourself up for the sharp one. The sign could be 35 for the second curve but the first curve is a 45. Hit that one at 110 and you'll be touching cloth. And possibly a well placed strainer post.

As always though, caveat emptor. There are signs out there that show the curve is left/right when in fact it is right /left, and some of the speeds shown are pretty dodgy, which is a problem if you double them when on the bike. I have heard that some do.

[Subike]

The sign could be 35 for the second curve but the first curve is a 45. Hit that one at 110 and you'll be touching cloth. And possibly a well placed strainer post. .

Yes, what you say make sense. I was thinking about this point when the tutor explained it to me, but although the first corner is not speed posted, the knowledge of the second corner can allow you to begin setting your road position and speed up in you mind before arriving at that point of action ,rather than arriving at the point of action, and then thinking about it. Something that i commonly see riders doing and ending up running wide over the center line or too fast and not tight enough, thus ending up in the dirt on the outside of the corner . That strainer post placed by the farmer to keep the fence in the right place for the farm becomes the stopper that hurts or that on coming vehicle has a bumper thats going to deform your front wheel as you cross the center line.

[Tricia1000]

Are you telling me that you were taught how to read the yellow warning signs? What about the times when there aren't any yellow signs. In my vicinity there was a 90 degree bend, no signs. I had a word with the council several times about it, and finally there were signs.

BUT, did your instructor teach you anything about how to really read a corner, using the LIMIT POINT, or VANISHING POINT or VISUAL POINT???????
If not, then you should be asking for your money back, because you were robbed.. That is the REAL way to read a corner..

Tricia1000
RoADA (Dip)
Consultant to NZTA


look at the yellow signs, they indicate differing radius's of the corner, from a gentle left or right curve , to a tightening hair pin.
For example , approaching a right hand corner, and you see a left hand corner sigh just before it, with a 35kph posting. This means the right hander can be taken at 100k, but leads immediately into a 35k left hander. So you can position yourself on the road in the right place to brake and take the left hander at a safe speed, rather than have it just appear with a wtf moment.
Say you are approaching a left hander, and the sign shows an s bend @ 55k, but the first curve is to the right? What? The corner you are entering is ok at 100kph, but is followed immediately by a series of s bends starting with a right hander. Think about where you want to be on the road for that right hander as you negotiate the left hander. And your already prepared for the flip flop into the S's.
There are the signs that will indicate a blind intersecting road, on the inside of the bend. seeing this tells you not to close apex the corner in case a vehicle is comming out of that blind corner, which you will run into because neither of you will see each other. late apexing the corner, at such a speed you can see the intersecting road will give you the room to avoid any vehicle blindly entering your path.
On your next ride, take note of what these speed signs say , other than its a left or right hander at X recommended speed. You will soon see they give way more information about the corner than what you first might think.

[nzspokes]

Its a shame this opportunity has been lost.

[Subike]

Are you telling me that you were taught how to read the yellow warning signs? What about the times when there aren't any yellow signs. In my vicinity there was a 90 degree bend, no signs. I had a word with the council several times about it, and finally there were signs.

BUT, did your instructor teach you anything about how to really read a corner, using the LIMIT POINT, or VANISHING POINT or VISUAL POINT???????
If not, then you should be asking for your money back, because you were robbed.. That is the REAL way to read a corner..

Tricia1000
RoADA (Dip)
Consultant to NZTA

Yes Trica1000, those points were covered, if I was to write up about all the things covered, then it would be at least a page long. Just posting about one item of information, in a way that others can understand what I'm saying, is a mission in its self, my comprehension skills etc, are not as good as others on this site. Even doing a blog would end up a quagmire of dribble you would need a month to understand.
A days worth of information transferred to these pages would become a book. So better to give enough information to get a person interested in doing a course themselves, rather than only half the information and confusing them even more.You only have to look at the Road Code to see that even that publication, holds but a smidgin of what you need to learn to be a safe driver/rider on the road.

[nzspokes]

Its a shame this opportunity has been lost.

Sorry I should say lost for Aucklanders.

[nzspokes]

Yes Trica1000, those points were covered, if I was to write up about all the things covered, then it would be at least a page long. Just posting about one item of information, in a way that others can understand what I'm saying, is a mission in its self, my comprehension skills etc, are not as good as others on this site. Even doing a blog would end up a quagmire of dribble you would need a month to understand.
A days worth of information transferred to these pages would become a book. So better to give enough information to get a person interested in doing a course themselves, rather than only half the information and confusing them even more.You only have to look at the Road Code to see that even that publication, holds but a smidgin of what you need to learn to be a safe driver/rider on the road.

I did 3 for the last confident courses with 2 providers. 2 of them cost me $50 a pop. 1 was free. All were great. None of them were taken as a track based system. They changed how I ride. :first:

[nzspokes]

Seems they dont wish to answer......

[nzspokes]

Seems they dont wish to answer......

And a little boy waits..........

[gunnyrob]

Well that "grinds my gears"!!!

I'm sure that the providers that have been selected are good at their jobs, but I am concerned about the other training providers that have been providing excellent training and have missed out on being able to qualify for funding.

Having done confident rider training with Phil at www.riderskills.co.nz, I managed to get quite a few of our air force riders through his programme with excellent feedback being received. As previously stated, track days are good for teaching some skills, but they do not equip you with the skills to avoid hazards on the street.

Nothing beats going out with an instructor on a one on one basis to get constructive critiques of your riding technique. This needs sorting:facepalm:

[ckai]

haha, had to laugh reading the first page of this thread. As soon as someone mentions something negative it all steam rolls.

Unfortunately I agree there's been no facts given though from the proper people so there's really no other view point. Maybe I can help though.


From my understanding of what Maduck is saying is that to do the course you have to attend a paid for track day first.

Im suspicious.

Just because something is held at a track doesn't mean it's a track day. There are advantages for doing road training at a track as opposed to on the road itself and vice versa. For new riders or unconfident riders, personally I think track based training is the only way to go. All these riders are in their own group and don't need to worry about anything or anybody else.

I haven't personally participated in Proriders training they do on the track but yesterday I personally witnessed it with my wife attending. I have done other courses by other providers and would have to say, this was the best in that category. This was her first training session with Prorider and was not a track day by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, they were told to go 100km/h (no faster than 120km/h) since it was road training and no point in going faster.


Yes you can do the ACC course but first you have to pay for training on a closed track at full price. I wonder if ACC know their providers are doing this....

If so, it's probably so they can turn around and say "we tried to help them but no one was interested in our training...."

ummm, couldn't be further from the truth and unsure where you got that idea from.


The thing I don't like about Track Training days is there is always some spastic twit determined to pass on the inside as you are tipping into a corner (usually the Hairpin). Freaks me out every time and is the reason I left the last day early. That is what is making me reluctant to do one of these courses.

This is an issue which I've been on the receiving end on and have also seen quite badly on one particularly training day my Dad was attending. This comes down to how the day is organized and how strict the organisers are.

From what I saw, I was quite impressed with how everyone rode at the Prorider day. It was obviously drummed into them in the classroom what was expected. Several times there was long queues of bikes going around since no one wanted to make stupid passes.

If some stupidity was present, it would have been interesting to see how it was handled.

I do think it seems silly of ACC to only have 3 providers of training for the whole of NZ. It would be interesting to know their logic behind it. If it's to do with anticipated numbers doing these courses and only larger training providers having the ability to handle it, then that makes sense.

Regarding track based training. It's not suited to everyone if the "environment" isn't right (case in point is my fathers session) but to dismiss it purely on assumption and hearsay is disappointing and a missed opportunity. If those riding adhere and understand the point of the training then it's one of the most beneficial effective forms of training you can do.

PS: I have nothing to do with Prorider or any training place. I just hate people getting the wrong idea and I feel strongly about everyone getting training in some form or another.

[MadDuck]

Unfortunately I agree there's been no facts given though from the proper people so there's really no other view point.

Which is why I asked the question. Even on their facebook page they offer no details. Not knowing the process I find it odd that they can win the ACC funding and have no programmes. None of my business I guess.


Just because something is held at a track doesn't mean it's a track day.

Problem is the insurance companies want a bigger excess for the day so "they" see it as higher risk.


I haven't personally participated in Proriders training they do on the track

I have and found it beneficial although once people got on the back straight of Pukekohe it was all on.....having said that I never felt uncomfortable. I have also attended the one on one training of an Auckland provider and found that to be far better for me on every level. Also no issue with insurance excess.


I do think it seems silly of ACC to only have 3 providers of training for the whole of NZ.

None Auckland based seems even sillier

[nzspokes]

Just because something is held at a track doesn't mean it's a track day. There are advantages for doing road training at a track as opposed to on the road itself and vice versa. For new riders or unconfident riders, personally I think track based training is the only way to go. All these riders are in their own group and don't need to worry about anything or anybody else.

Thanks for that but I dont want to do road training on the track. Same as when i do track days i dont do them on the road.

But it seems there is no information on how it works.

[tbs]

I'm not associated with Pro-Rider but I went to a training day at Puke shortly after buying my first bike and I was at the Track Day in the weekend that was run along side the Training Day at Taupo. I thought Taupo was an excellent venue with a good mix of different corners, and being the short Track 2 layout, not much opportunity to get a lot of speed up. As ckai mentioned the groups were well organized and well disciplined. It was all about learning basic machine control techniques.

There has been some grizzling about the requirement by Pro-Rider that you do their track based training before they take you out on the road for more situational awareness training. I strongly believe it is because they want to make sure your machine control is up to snuff before they have to deal with you out in the real world, and here's the kicker folks:

Some of you seasoned riders will have poor, nay, RUBBISH machine control!
I saw this with my own eyes at the Safe Rider day at Puke. And guess what? It's much easier to learn good habits from the get-go than to break well established bad ones. Machine control needs to come first, situational awareness second. You need to leave your egos behind and submit yourself to the training if you want to progress. All the situational awareness in the world won't save your ass if you can't make your bike do what you want it to do when you need it to.

I don't know why ACC won't fund this first track based session, and I think ProRider would do well pop by and explain it. But all this incessant whining about how you don't want to do any training on the track is just sooooo lame!

[tbs]

Seems they dont wish to answer......


And a little boy waits..........


Thanks for that but I dont want to do road training on the track. Same as when i do track days i dont do them on the road.

But it seems there is no information on how it works.

Go and ask Howard. He's one of Pro Rider's instructors.

[Usarka]

ummm, couldn't be further from the truth and unsure where you got that idea from.



From the Prorider website on the day I made the comment. It looks like they may have changed it which is good, but it clearly stated that there was a pre-requisite course you need to do before doing the ACC subsidised one.

I still think it's arse that the closest ACC training from our largest city is a 400km return trip. I accept this isn't proriders fault and I have no issues with them. But apart fromanything else it's hardly promoting safety getting all these noobs riding 200km, doing a days training, and then riding another 200km back home.

[tbs]

Well Puke and Hampton Downs are both inferior tracks from a training perspective. Also, Puke is closed for refurbishment and HD is really expensive to use. I believe they are trying to book a day at HD in January.

Actually I think go-kart tracks could be good for training purposes. It works for Buckets afterall.;

[nzspokes]

Go and ask Howard. He's one of Pro Rider's instructors.

Howards not involved with Sass anymore after there marriage split. Never see him.

[MadDuck]

and I think ProRider would do well pop by and explain it.

Considering they started this thread I think that would be a grand idea.


But all this incessant whining about how you don't want to do any training on the track is just sooooo lame!

I hardly think that asking for clarification is "incessant whining" or "lame". But then this is KiwiBiker.

[caseye]

What MD said, so there!
Come on pro? rider, come tell us whats going on.

[tbs]

Considering they started this thread I think that would be a grand idea.



I hardly think that asking for clarification is "incessant whining" or "lame". But then this is KiwiBiker.

Ok I might have carried over some annoyance from Mystic Eagle's 1st stuff-up thread at some of the 'you can't learn road craft on the track' proponents. I still maintain that basic machine control comes first and road craft second.



Howards not involved with Sass anymore after there marriage split. Never see him.

Oh bugger. I haven't been to SASS in over a year. I had no idea. That sucks.

[nzspokes]

Oh bugger. I haven't been to SASS in over a year. I had no idea. That sucks.

Yup, Jane's doing great work trying to keep Sass running. Pretty big commitment when going through a big break up. I was helping where I could but my partner had a big m/cycle crash and I cant attend at the moment. Hope to return next year.

[quickbuck]

Hi Folks,
Sorry for the wait.
Karel has been really busy with getting the whole ACC Funding thing off the ground, and probably forgot all about KB.
Sorry, but it is not a big blip on the radar.

Best to e-mail Karel@prorider.co.nz if you have any curly questions.

Other than that, click on the big logo in my signature and it will take you to the web site, and any course can be booked through there.

Due to the way the ACC funding works, and with ProRider getting their courses subsidised for people north of Turangi, we don't plan a course for Manfeild (or south of Turangi) any time soon.
However Hampton Downs and Taupo, and Auckland (Puke) are coming up.
If you are a resident of south of Turangi you will not get the ACC Subsidy.

It is still awesome value though.

Another way to keep in touch is through Face Book: http://www.facebook.com/ProRiderMotorcycleTraining


Look forward to seeing you sometime.

Aaron.

[nzspokes]

Hi Folks,
Sorry for the wait.
Karel has been really busy with getting the whole ACC Funding thing off the ground, and probably forgot all about KB.
Sorry, but it is not a big blip on the radar.

Best to e-mail Karel@prorider.co.nz if you have any curly questions.

Other than that, click on the big logo in my signature and it will take you to the web site, and any course can be booked through there.

Due to the way the ACC funding works, and with ProRider getting their courses subsidised for people north of Turangi, we don't plan a course for Manfeild (or south of Turangi) any time soon.
However Hampton Downs and Taupo, and Auckland (Puke) are coming up.
If you are a resident of south of Turangi you will not get the ACC Subsidy.

It is still awesome value though.

Another way to keep in touch is through Face Book: http://www.facebook.com/ProRiderMotorcycleTraining


Look forward to seeing you sometime.

Aaron.

Seems strange the biggest motorcycle website in NZ is not on there radar.

The question still stands, do you have to do track work to get the ACC funding.

Thanks for responding.

[quickbuck]

Seems strange the biggest motorcycle website in NZ is not on there radar.

The question still stands, do you have to do track work to get the ACC funding.

Thanks for responding.

Sorry nzspokes, I missed that question.

For ACC funding on a SafeRider course (ProRider Level 1) by default you have to do track work, as that is where level 1 courses are held.
There is no prerequisite course if that is what you mean?

You do not need a full leather suit to do the course. If you ride in Cordura, then wear that.
If you carry luggage all the time, feel free to bring that too.
Initially we will get you to remove it for some skills, however it can be a good lesson to put it on and feel the difference in your bikes handling with it loaded up.

ProRider do road based training. It just so happens the best place to carry out the skills, and have a class room type facility in the same location is a track.

KB may well be the biggest Bike web site in NZ, however bigger isn't always best.
Our own web site should be the first port of call, and all queries should really be directed through there.
Facebook is also a good way to keep up with what is going on, if you have an account.

Hope this answers your question, and provides you with more info.

cheers

[nzspokes]

Sorry nzspokes, I missed that question.

For ACC funding on a SafeRider course (ProRider Level 1) by default you have to do track work, as that is where level 1 courses are held.
There is no prerequisite course if that is what you mean?

You do not need a full leather suit to do the course. If you ride in Cordura, then wear that.
If you carry luggage all the time, feel free to bring that too.
Initially we will get you to remove it for some skills, however it can be a good lesson to put it on and feel the difference in your bikes handling with it loaded up.

ProRider do road based training. It just so happens the best place to carry out the skills, and have a class room type facility in the same location is a track.

KB may well be the biggest Bike web site in NZ, however bigger isn't always best.
Our own web site should be the first port of call, and all queries should really be directed through there.
Facebook is also a good way to keep up with what is going on, if you have an account.

Hope this answers your question, and provides you with more info.

cheers

Again, thanks for responding.

As for not being on the radar, they started this thread with an advert.

Can I ask what formal training have the trainers had? And by whom?

Is the required track work needed if I was a resident of say Christchurch? Is this an ACC prerequisite?

What we need to remember that this is not free or subsidised, its money taken from our regos. So we have a right to know where this money is going. By the very nature of it being track biased I firmly believe it will deter the very riders that need it.

[ckai]

Seems strange the biggest motorcycle website in NZ is not on there radar.




more to life than the internet as well ;-)




If you carry luggage all the time, feel free to bring that too.
Initially we will get you to remove it for some skills, however it can be a good lesson to put it on and feel the difference in your bikes handling with it loaded up.



This should be the biggest give away that the level 1 course is far from the "track day" perception that some have. Bloody good idea this actually.

Sent from one of those touch do-hickies

[quickbuck]

Again, thanks for responding.

As for not being on the radar, they started this thread with an advert.

Can I ask what formal training have the trainers had? And by whom?

Is the required track work needed if I was a resident of say Christchurch? Is this an ACC prerequisite?

What we need to remember that this is not free or subsidised, its money taken from our regos. So we have a right to know where this money is going. By the very nature of it being track biased I firmly believe it will deter the very riders that need it.

Firstly, this thread wasn't started as an advert. It was an announcement.
Advertising has to be paid for.....

As for formal training, most of the trainers have an "I" endorsement on their licence.
This is required to be an ACC funded Training Provider.
As the "I" endorsement is based on instruction in a car, most of the trainers have also done various levels of CSS.
I personally have also done military courses that have taught me how to teach.
Others have had many years of experience on how to coach in various areas.
From 20+ years of road riding to UK instructors, and Racers (not that we teach how to race in the first 2 levels).

If you were to be a resident of Christchurch, then contact Dan Ornsby (Motorcycle training for Central/Lower South Island), and ask him what he provides.
That is intellectual property, and I have no idea what his training package entails.
The ACC have no prerequisites, they contracted out the training to the providers who put forward a business case to provide the required training.
There was a lot of work done to ensure the training is at the correct level, and appropriate.
We (as training providers) now have to do performance measures to demonstrate the training has been effective on the day.


As for "Track Work" as you put it, get this clear:
We use a track to simulate a road that goes around in a short loop, nothing more nothing less.
It is in no way used to race on during the course.
The speeds are kept to road speeds, and the skills learnt are all for the road.

Tracks are very good at providing areas to host 30+ students/ bikes/ gear, class rooms, and areas for coffee and lunch breaks.
They also provide large car park type areas where slow speed handling is instructed.
It all comes at a cost though. Track hire is NOT cheap!

When you advance to level 2, if the course is small enough, then we just do the whole thing on a road.
It is purely a numbers thing.

You are correct, a component of our Licence Cost is indeed providing the funding for this.
It is $30/yr in fact. Yes you do have a right to know, and I can only help with what I know.
What i do know is the subsidy for one course is substantial! Like 3/4ths of it.
So obviously there is a huge portion of citizens who are not taking up the training offered.

I personally would love to know where the other $370 goes (for my 600).

Cheers

[Tricia1000]

I want to do the skilled rider/experienced course, but the first one available is in April. (Somewhere in Auckland). I can't book till I know where abouts the venue will be. Surely, with the huge numbers of riders that you should be putting through, then one course a month, won't really get enough people through.
The web page tells me that the first course suited to my needs (Experienced Rider) is 6th April 2013.

This appears to be the first Road riding course for experienced riders.
I did see a course on 2nd March for Experienced Riders, but it is being held at Taupo Motorsport Park……… Hmmmm a 4+ hour ride each way for me plus a full day riding!!!, I don't think that even my extended concentration abilities (Not to mention needing an Iron Butt) could cope with this!! BUT I DON'T WANT TO LEARN TO RIDE AT A TRACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Also, if I was living in Northland, would I have to ride 6 or so hours in each direction to avail of even the most basic course you offer?

With regard to the "i" endorsement, the Auckland motorcycle instructors did not get their "I" endorsement as a follow on from a car endorsement. When I got mine, I only wanted the "I" endorsement for class 6 (m/c). I can think of at least 4 Auckland Instructors who applied for the ACC subsidisation, and you state in your earlier post, that MOST of the Instructors are "I" endorsed. This means that some aren't. Does ACC know this?? Do the students know this???
Road riding, and dealing with the hazards as they come along, is completely different to everyone riding in the same direction....
Any more info on this, would be much appreciated.
Tricia1000
RoADA (Dip)
Consultant to NZTA


Firstly, this thread wasn't started as an advert. It was an announcement.
Advertising has to be paid for.....

As for formal training, most of the trainers have an "I" endorsement on their licence.
This is required to be an ACC funded Training Provider.
As the "I" endorsement is based on instruction in a car, most of the trainers have also done various levels of CSS.
I personally have also done military courses that have taught me how to teach.
Others have had many years of experience on how to coach in various areas.
From 20+ years of road riding to UK instructors, and Racers (not that we teach how to race in the first 2 levels).

If you were to be a resident of Christchurch, then contact Dan Ornsby (Motorcycle training for Central/Lower South Island), and ask him what he provides.
That is intellectual property, and I have no idea what his training package entails.
The ACC have no prerequisites, they contracted out the training to the providers who put forward a business case to provide the required training.
There was a lot of work done to ensure the training is at the correct level, and appropriate.
We (as training providers) now have to do performance measures to demonstrate the training has been effective on the day.


As for "Track Work" as you put it, get this clear:
We use a track to simulate a road that goes around in a short loop, nothing more nothing less.
It is in no way used to race on during the course.
The speeds are kept to road speeds, and the skills learnt are all for the road.

Tracks are very good at providing areas to host 30+ students/ bikes/ gear, class rooms, and areas for coffee and lunch breaks.
They also provide large car park type areas where slow speed handling is instructed.
It all comes at a cost though. Track hire is NOT cheap!

When you advance to level 2, if the course is small enough, then we just do the whole thing on a road.
It is purely a numbers thing.

You are correct, a component of our Licence Cost is indeed providing the funding for this.
It is $30/yr in fact. Yes you do have a right to know, and I can only help with what I know.
What i do know is the subsidy for one course is substantial! Like 3/4ths of it.
So obviously there is a huge portion of citizens who are not taking up the training offered.

I personally would love to know where the other $370 goes (for my 600).

Cheers

[nzspokes]

Firstly, this thread wasn't started as an advert. It was an announcement.
Advertising has to be paid for.....

As for formal training, most of the trainers have an "I" endorsement on their licence.
This is required to be an ACC funded Training Provider.
As the "I" endorsement is based on instruction in a car, most of the trainers have also done various levels of CSS.
I personally have also done military courses that have taught me how to teach.
Others have had many years of experience on how to coach in various areas.
From 20+ years of road riding to UK instructors, and Racers (not that we teach how to race in the first 2 levels).

If you were to be a resident of Christchurch, then contact Dan Ornsby (Motorcycle training for Central/Lower South Island), and ask him what he provides.
That is intellectual property, and I have no idea what his training package entails.
The ACC have no prerequisites, they contracted out the training to the providers who put forward a business case to provide the required training.
There was a lot of work done to ensure the training is at the correct level, and appropriate.
We (as training providers) now have to do performance measures to demonstrate the training has been effective on the day.


As for "Track Work" as you put it, get this clear:
We use a track to simulate a road that goes around in a short loop, nothing more nothing less.
It is in no way used to race on during the course.
The speeds are kept to road speeds, and the skills learnt are all for the road.

Tracks are very good at providing areas to host 30+ students/ bikes/ gear, class rooms, and areas for coffee and lunch breaks.
They also provide large car park type areas where slow speed handling is instructed.
It all comes at a cost though. Track hire is NOT cheap!

When you advance to level 2, if the course is small enough, then we just do the whole thing on a road.
It is purely a numbers thing.

You are correct, a component of our Licence Cost is indeed providing the funding for this.
It is $30/yr in fact. Yes you do have a right to know, and I can only help with what I know.
What i do know is the subsidy for one course is substantial! Like 3/4ths of it.
So obviously there is a huge portion of citizens who are not taking up the training offered.

I personally would love to know where the other $370 goes (for my 600).

Cheers

So you have an I endorsement is for motorcycles? And would it not be better for people to go direct to CSS rather learn from students of the course?

When is your next course at Pukekohe?

ACC could make an announcement, Prorider did an add.

[Tricia1000]

What i do know is the subsidy for one course is substantial! Like 3/4ths of it.
So obviously there is a huge portion of citizens who are not taking up the training offered.

And the reason for that could possibly lack of access;
Think about this:
I live in Whangaparaoa, so, Even for me pukekohe is a 1.5 hour ride in each direction, and Taupo is a 4 hour ride in each direction..
The north shore would near enough have the highest concentration per capita of people on small - medium sized m/c, and for someone really new to ride over the auckland harbour bridge will be quite enough to make them change their trousers. PDQ!!!!
So, if someone who has only ridden a few months, wants to do a safe rider course, they need to get themselves to either hampton downs, Waikato or Taupo motorsport park, which according to my google map is, from the north shore, 1 hour to Hampton downs (across the bridge, and on the motorway) IN EACH DIRECTION and to Taupo is 3 and a half hours in EACH direction.
I can't think of any novice rider, who could manage that!!!
If they were coming from Whangerei, then 2 hours, 45 minutes to Hampton Downs,each way, and over FIVE HOURS in each direction to Taupo Motorsport Park.

And then you say that not enough people are taking up the offer of "training" on a track.
Tricia1000
RoADA (Dip)
Consultant to NZTA

[quickbuck]

I want to do the skilled rider/experienced course, but the first one available is in April. (Somewhere in Auckland). I can't book till I know where abouts the venue will be. Surely, with the huge numbers of riders that you should be putting through, then one course a month, won't really get enough people through.
The web page tells me that the first course suited to my needs (Experienced Rider) is 6th April 2013.

This appears to be the first Road riding course for experienced riders.
I did see a course on 2nd March for Experienced Riders, but it is being held at Taupo Motorsport Park……… Hmmmm a 4+ hour ride each way for me plus a full day riding!!!, I don't think that even my extended concentration abilities (Not to mention needing an Iron Butt) could cope with this!! BUT I DON'T WANT TO LEARN TO RIDE AT A TRACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Also, if I was living in Northland, would I have to ride 6 or so hours in each direction to avail of even the most basic course you offer?

With regard to the "i" endorsement, the Auckland motorcycle instructors did not get their "I" endorsement as a follow on from a car endorsement. When I got mine, I only wanted the "I" endorsement for class 6 (m/c). I can think of at least 4 Auckland Instructors who applied for the ACC subsidisation, and you state in your earlier post, that MOST of the Instructors are "I" endorsed. This means that some aren't. Does ACC know this?? Do the students know this???
Road riding, and dealing with the hazards as they come along, is completely different to everyone riding in the same direction....
Any more info on this, would be much appreciated.
Tricia1000
RoADA (Dip)
Consultant to NZTA
Hi Trish,
That is a lot for me to answer, and to be totally honest you are best to e-mail Karel through the web site as some of your issues I can not answer.

Simply put re the I endorsement, you are correct, not all of the people at ProRider have it yet.

Some of us who help out in limited capacity do not have it. ACC do indeed know this. The students are advised of this in the intro.

As for the course you want to do, well I am sorry, but EVERYBODY starts at level 1.


Level 2 covers Hazards

Level 3 is for students who have done the first 2 levels and want to take their skills further...

As for travaling to Taupo, I'm sorry, but NZ isn't that big, and they do have accomidation there...
I travel up and back in a day, and I am as far away.

[quickbuck]

So you have an I endorsement is for motorcycles? And would it not be better for people to go direct to CSS rather learn from students of the course?

When is your next course at Pukekohe?

ACC could make an announcement, Prorider did an add.

You do not get an I endorsement from CSS!
You get it from an NZTA Provider.

Feel free and go and get your I endorsement, but for $3000 per year, what are you going to do with it?

[Tricia1000]

Apologies, but NOWHERE on the site does it say, everyone starts with a Level 1 course.... The site does say:

Theres a program suited to you!

Regardless of what type of bike you are riding

Cruiser
Tourer
Sports
Naked
Dual purpose
Adventure
there's a coaching program that can help you take your riding to another level. right there!! there is A COACHING PROGRAMME.
So, basically the ACC subsidy would cover us for the Level 1 course, and after that?? We have to pay the full money. That sounds like a big scam to me. You get paid for teaching the saferider newbie stuff, but I quote: SafeRider coaching program - Novice/Intermediate/Returning Riders . I don't actually fit in to that category... Nor the next one, but I would like to do the onroad experienced rider course.
AND, you might expect me to take instruction from someone who may or may not be a qualified instructor??

Tricia 1000
RoADA (Dip)
Consultant to NZTA


Hi Trish,
That is a lot for me to answer, and to be totally honest you are best to e-mail Karel through the web site as some of your issues I can not answer.

Simply put re the I endorsement, you are correct, not all of the people at ProRider have it yet.

Some of us who help out in limited capacity do not have it. ACC do indeed know this. The students are advised of this in the intro.

As for the course you want to do, well I am sorry, but EVERYBODY starts at level 1.


Level 2 covers Hazards

Level 3 is for students who have done the first 2 levels and want to take their skills further...

As for travaling to Taupo, I'm sorry, but NZ isn't that big, and they do have accomidation there...
I travel up and back in a day, and I am as far away.

[nzspokes]

You do not get an I endorsement from CSS!
You get it from an NZTA Provider.

Feel free and go and get your I endorsement, but for $3000 per year, what are you going to do with it?

I know where to get endorsements thanks. I meant you to answer the question.

Is your I endorsement for motorcycles? I don't need or want an I endorsement as that is not my career.

And when are you running a course in Auckland? If you don't run one in Auckland then the ACC funding is pointless. Those that need it wont be able to afford it.

[ckai]

Maybe those that have a gripe with regards to Proriders course availability and structure should direct them to ACC not Prorider? After all, it was ACC that approved Prorider not the other way around. I would imagine from what quickbuck said that Prorider, as well as all the other approved providers, provided ACC with appropriate course material, venues, structure, targets etc. ACC obviously were OK with this to give them funding.

So I say again, have an issue with the provider, it seems more logical to talk to ACC since they approved them and there course structure/content/venue's etc etc

[quickbuck]

Apologies, but NOWHERE on the site does it say, everyone starts with a Level 1 course.... The site does say:

Theres a program suited to you!

Regardless of what type of bike you are riding

Cruiser
Tourer
Sports
Naked
Dual purpose
Adventure
there's a coaching program that can help you take your riding to another level. right there!! there is A COACHING PROGRAMME.
So, basically the ACC subsidy would cover us for the Level 1 course, and after that?? We have to pay the full money. That sounds like a big scam to me. You get paid for teaching the saferider newbie stuff, but I quote: SafeRider coaching program - Novice/Intermediate/Returning Riders . I don't actually fit in to that category... Nor the next one, but I would like to do the onroad experienced rider course.
AND, you might expect me to take instruction from someone who may or may not be a qualified instructor??

Tricia 1000
RoADA (Dip)
Consultant to NZTA
Not a big scam at all.
Level 1 is the course that ACC have recognised as he course they provide funding for.

The content was carefully checked over by them, and they approved it.

Now, if you think you are better than that and could not gain anything more from it, I endorsement and all, well then well done, and best wishes to you.

If I wasn't part of the staff, me personally would have no issue in entering myself on a Level 1 course..... Yes, I have been riding for 35 years.... And done quite a few things in my time.
However there is always something to offer all experience levels.

That said, as I have said All along, Contact Karel via the Web Site and discuss your situation, and what you think is best.
I'm sure she will help you out.

This is KB, not www.prorider.co.nz

[nzspokes]

So I say again, have an issue with the provider, it seems more logical to talk to ACC since they approved them and there course structure/content/venue's etc etc

I now agree with you on that. I will be. This situation is laughable.

[quickbuck]

I know where to get endorsements thanks. I meant you to answer the question.

Is your I endorsement for motorcycles? I don't need or want an I endorsement as that is not my career.

And when are you running a course in Auckland? If you don't run one in Auckland then the ACC funding is pointless. Those that need it wont be able to afford it.
I endorsement works like this:
The Trainee has a licence. It has at least one class on it (1 to 6).
They do the I endorsement course through the Training Provider who come under NZTA.

Then they are allowed to instruct any of the classes of licence held.
So if you have a 1,2,4,6 and you do your I endorsement, you can go away and train people to drive anything fro a Smart Car to a 44 Tonne truck, and ride a motorcycle.
Simple?

Again, Have a look at the web site.
You can click on the big logo in my signature block or go to www.prorider.co.nz and find out when courses are run.

Or e-mail via the web site.

Remember this is Kiwibiker, not ProRider....

[nzspokes]

When are the Pukekohe dates?

[nzspokes]

Yes i agree, there is never meant to be a precursor to do a full price Track course (its all about grabbing the $$$$'s) to be able to gain access to do a free / subsidised course which is paid by ACC which is your money:yes:
So the more people who reply back to Lindsay johnson @acc.co.nz the better.


Qkkid, is that the e-mail address for him/her? Im pretty keen to get a contact at ACC about this.

[Tricia1000]

Contact at ACC:
Lindsay Johnston Lindsay Johnson MCIPS Senior Category Manager, Print and Logistics, ACC) ACC, Lindsay Johnson and ACC / Corporate Procurement / Level 11, Vogel Centre, 19 Aitken Street
PO Box 242 / Wellington 6011 / New Zealand / www.acc.co.nz, also
Sara Hay, Corporate Procurement Manager, on 04 816 5471 or 027 6866672.
or Dave Kielty on David.keilty@acc.co.nz

Tricia1000
RoADA (Dip)
Consultant to NZTA
P.S. My overseas qualifications were considered, and transferred as evidence enough for my "I" endorsement in New Zealand, so didn't need to go down the 4 weeks at the AA route.
QUOTE=nzspokes;1130459680]Qkkid, is that the e-mail address for him/her? Im pretty keen to get a contact at ACC about this.[/QUOTE]

[nzspokes]

Contact at ACC:
Lindsay Johnston Lindsay Johnson MCIPS Senior Category Manager, Print and Logistics, ACC) ACC, Lindsay Johnson and ACC / Corporate Procurement / Level 11, Vogel Centre, 19 Aitken Street
PO Box 242 / Wellington 6011 / New Zealand / www.acc.co.nz, also
Sara Hay, Corporate Procurement Manager, on 04 816 5471 or 027 6866672.
or Dave Kielty on David.keilty@acc.co.nz

Tricia1000
RoADA (Dip)
Consultant to NZTA
P.S. My overseas qualifications were considered, and transferred as evidence enough for my "I" endorsement in New Zealand, so didn't need to go down the 4 weeks at the AA route.
QUOTE=nzspokes;1130459680]Qkkid, is that the e-mail address for him/her? Im pretty keen to get a contact at ACC about this.[/QUOTE]

Thanks Tricia, I will be putting some questions to them next week and directing them to this thread.

[Tricia1000]

Absolutely, and I have already done the same. Waikato and Taupo are completely unattainable to novice or medium level students from Auckland, or any where further North than that.. I am quite used to spending the day on my bike, teaching, but even I would draw the line at a 5 hour ride in each direction, and a full days "training".... In fact it would be completely unsafe for anyone to consider doing that.........Please invite your contacts to raise these points with ACC.
Also, I don't know about others, but I would expect a road riding course to be held on the road.... or is that asking too much????
Tricia1000
RoADA (Dip)
Consultant to NZTA




Thanks Tricia, I will be putting some questions to them next week and directing them to this thread.[/QUOTE]

[Qkkid]

Qkkid, is that the e-mail address for him/her? Im pretty keen to get a contact at ACC about this.

Hi Rob yes it is the right email addy ,Tricia 1000 has given a reply with all the right details.
It is really sad for all the learner bikers , return bikers , and for those who just might want to do a course and actually might pick up on something they did not know maybe.......
ACC went about it the wrong way and are very short sighted, But what really do you expect after all its "ACC"
I wish Prorider all the best and hope they do there quotas.
For those who care you got to get in contact with Lindsay Johnston.If you feel strong enough about it.:yes:

[quickbuck]

I wish Prorider all the best and hope they do there quotas.

Well, thank you.

Now I know Trish has an issue with all the traveling time required to get to Taupo, but something to consider is look at the bigger picture.
One reason that Puke is so hard to get is that V8Supercar has invested a whole lot of money into revamping the place, and it is a little hard to get a training course in there at the moment.

In the future, it will be much easier I am sure.

I know there is a lot of realestate above Auckland too..... Just like there is a lot below Timaru for Dan Ornsby.
Bare with us, it is hoped to get these issues sorted in the near future.
It is a matter of getting the whole sausage machine started and self sustained.

By the way every course ProRider do I have to travel at least 3 hours.

[Tricia1000]

It isn't the travelling time for me. It is in the inaccessibility for the students that concerns me. I move my courses around depending on where the student lives, and their skill level. I don't insist that everyone comes to Whangaparaoa, because that suits me. I go over the bridge, or to the North shore, or to Warkworth. Prorider only seem to want to do the courses at Waikato area tracks... or so it seems. How about a course in North Auckland for a change??
Tricia1000
RoADA(Dip)
Consultant to NZTA


Well, thank you.

Now I know Trish has an issue with all the traveling time required to get to Taupo, but something to consider is look at the bigger picture.
One reason that Puke is so hard to get is that V8Supercar has invested a whole lot of money into revamping the place, and it is a little hard to get a training course in there at the moment.

In the future, it will be much easier I am sure.

I know there is a lot of realestate above Auckland too..... Just like there is a lot below Timaru for Dan Ornsby.
Bare with us, it is hoped to get these issues sorted in the near future.
It is a matter of getting the whole sausage machine started and self sustained.

By the way every course ProRider do I have to travel at least 3 hours.

[nzspokes]

Well, thank you.

Now I know Trish has an issue with all the traveling time required to get to Taupo, but something to consider is look at the bigger picture.
One reason that Puke is so hard to get is that V8Supercar has invested a whole lot of money into revamping the place, and it is a little hard to get a training course in there at the moment.

In the future, it will be much easier I am sure.

I know there is a lot of realestate above Auckland too..... Just like there is a lot below Timaru for Dan Ornsby.
Bare with us, it is hoped to get these issues sorted in the near future.
It is a matter of getting the whole sausage machine started and self sustained.

By the way every course ProRider do I have to travel at least 3 hours.

So you want a new rider on a ginny or a returning rider on an overpowered bike for there skill to ride down country for 4 hours?

Mate ya dreaming.

[bosslady]

The north shore would near enough have the highest concentration per capita of people on small - medium sized m/c, and for someone really new to ride over the auckland harbour bridge will be quite enough to make them change their trousers. PDQ!!!!
So, if someone who has only ridden a few months, wants to do a safe rider course, they need to get themselves to either hampton downs, Waikato or Taupo motorsport park, which according to my google map is, from the north shore, 1 hour to Hampton downs (across the bridge, and on the motorway) IN EACH DIRECTION and to Taupo is 3 and a half hours in EACH direction.
I can't think of any novice rider, who could manage that!!!
If they were coming from Whangerei, then 2 hours, 45 minutes to Hampton Downs,each way, and over FIVE HOURS in each direction to Taupo Motorsport Park.

And then you say that not enough people are taking up the offer of "training" on a track.
Tricia1000
RoADA (Dip)
Consultant to NZTA

Hmmm who can't ride over the harbour bridge and all the way to Hampton downs after a few months riding? riding to Hampton downs from the shore is totally achievable for a novice imo.

[nzspokes]

Hmmm who can't ride over the harbour bridge and all the way to Hampton downs after a few months riding? riding to Hampton downs from the shore is totally achievable for a novice imo.

They are run at Taupo. Bit further down the road.

[bosslady]

They are run at Taupo. Bit further down the road.

she mentioned the bridge and also Hampton downs. Bridge not a biggy nor is Hampton downs if you've been riding a few months. Anyway there would be nothing stopping someone from riding down the night before, stay at a backpackers, ride to course in morning, back packers again at night then ride back in the morning. Tiring, but achievable with a few stops there and back to rest and 're fuel. Totally inconvenient but an adventure eh!

Oh and I know were taupo is, lol ;) going down next week

[nzspokes]

she mentioned the bridge and also Hampton downs. Bridge not a biggy nor is Hampton downs if you've been riding a few months. Anyway there would be nothing stopping someone from riding down the night before, stay at a backpackers, ride to course in morning, back packers again at night then ride back in the morning. Tiring, but achievable with a few stops there and back to rest and 're fuel. Totally inconvenient but an adventure eh!

Oh and I know were taupo is, lol ;) going down next week

It used to be done in Auckland. And it ran well. I learnt alot from the 2 courses I did from 2 different providers.

[Tricia1000]

When riders are still in the early stages of riding, some take longer than others to achieve the same level. Some are naturals, and nothing fazes them. Others take quite some time, and for quite a lot of people that I know, they wouldn't contemplate crossing the bridge, without someone to be with them.

As regards staying two nights in a back packers, again, that may not work due to time/family constraints and / or financial constraints. So a "subsidised" course would then end up costing a couple of hundred dollars...
And if they are going to spend that sort of money, they would probably prefer to do a course closer to home.

Tricia1000
RoADA (Dip)
Consultant to NZTA


Hmmm who can't ride over the harbour bridge and all the way to Hampton downs after a few months riding? riding to Hampton downs from the shore is totally achievable for a novice imo.

[bosslady]

When riders are still in the early stages of riding, some take longer than others to achieve the same level. Some are naturals, and nothing fazes them. Others take quite some time, and for quite a lot of people that I know, they wouldn't contemplate crossing the bridge, without someone to be with them.

As regards staying two nights in a back packers, again, that may not work due to time/family constraints and / or financial constraints. So a "subsidised" course would then end up costing a couple of hundred dollars...
And if they are going to spend that sort of money, they would probably prefer to do a course closer to home.

Tricia1000
RoADA (Dip)
Consultant to NZTA

Fair enough re: your 2nd paragraph (sorry too hard to copy and paste on my tablet!)

And I dunno re: the bridge. I think I did that after a week, so cant imagine not doing it for months! but I'm in no way a natural and a lot fazes me so.. I don't get it I guess.

[Tricia1000]

Yep, I agree with that.... You are dreaming.......Perhaps you have most contact with people riding in the "sterile" environment of the track, but put novice people on the road, and it is a different story all together,..

Tricia1000
RoADA (Dip)
Consultant to NZTA

So you want a new rider on a ginny or a returning rider on an overpowered bike for there skill to ride down country for 4 hours?

Mate ya dreaming.

[quickbuck]

So you want a new rider on a ginny or a returning rider on an overpowered bike for there skill to ride down country for 4 hours?

Mate ya dreaming.

Really?
Last course we run at Taupo we had a guy on his 6L turn up from Wellington via the Forgotten Highway.
He went home some bizzar trek too... he was on a Hyosong GT250r.
I see your point though, But what did people do BEFORE advanced rider training courses were offered?
Many students actually trailer their bikes to courses if they are not so confident yet.

All that said, heck give us a chance!!!!
ProRider have only just got the rights to provide ACC funded courses in the area, it is still early days. I am sure Karel and the Admin team are working on other areas in the catchment to hoast courses.

[Movistar]

Problem is, ACC had already earmarked these providers before any other tenders were considered, and little consultation was given to the delivery structure. Go to http://www.rideforever.co.nz/training/ and book yourself in - see what kind of response you get (apart from an automated one), if any.

ACC really have no idea what is going on in the real world. Why not consult some actual motorcyclists to see what training would be relevant and how it should be delivered?

And what has happened with MOTONZ? Gareth Morgan is no longer chair (too busy hunting cats) and lets face it, this whole concept was put in place to dull the uproar of increased registration fees to an audible murmour. $30 from our registration goes to them (Motorcycle Safety Levy) to administer safety on our behalf - is this really still happening? Personally, I've had one update from them in the last few months regarding projects that are being undertaken, but once again, are they consulting the people that actually are paying for their existance?

[Tricia1000]

All relevant points and questions.

Tricia1000
RoADA (Dip)
Consultant to NZTA


Problem is, ACC had already earmarked these providers before any other tenders were considered, and little consultation was given to the delivery structure. Go to http://www.rideforever.co.nz/training/ and book yourself in - see what kind of response you get (apart from an automated one), if any.

ACC really have no idea what is going on in the real world. Why not consult some actual motorcyclists to see what training would be relevant and how it should be delivered?

And what has happened with MOTONZ? Gareth Morgan is no longer chair (too busy hunting cats) and lets face it, this whole concept was put in place to dull the uproar of increased registration fees to an audible murmour. $30 from our registration goes to them (Motorcycle Safety Levy) to administer safety on our behalf - is this really still happening? Personally, I've had one update from them in the last few months regarding projects that are being undertaken, but once again, are they consulting the people that actually are paying for their existance?

[Tricia1000]

Actually, the appropriate groups were notified back at the beginning of November, some almost 4 months ago. And still there doesn't seem to many courses available.

I will be interested in the 1st experienced rider course that will be held in Auckland.

As regards what bosslady said, and I quote:
"she mentioned the bridge and also Hampton downs. Bridge not a biggy nor is Hampton downs if you've been riding a few months. Anyway there would be nothing stopping someone from riding down the night before, stay at a backpackers, ride to course in morning, back packers again at night then ride back in the morning. Tiring, but achievable with a few stops there and back to rest and 're fuel. Totally inconvenient but an adventure eh!"

The whole idea of having subsidised training available, is so that it can be accessed by the majority of riders, at local areas, for very little money.
To stay over two nights, and to spend anywhere up to 6,7 or 8 hours riding in each way, isn't affordable to the normal joe bloggs on the street (or bike), plus the 3 days taken to get there and back.
Between the money spent on accommodation, and the fuel, and time, it would be cheaper to pay full price for a local course.

Plus, 80% of the course must be done ON ROAD!! That doesn't mean on a track!!

Tricia1000
RoADA (Dip)
Consultant to NZTA


QUOTEAll that said, heck give us a chance!!!!
ProRider have only just got the rights to provide ACC funded courses in the area, it is still early days. I am sure Karel and the Admin team are working on other areas in the catchment to hoast courses.[/QUOTE]

[bosslady]

Why do you keep re-quoting what I say all the time... kinda wierd. I say what I mean and I mean what I say...

[Movistar]

And what about 'Safer Journeys'? Have you taken the time to read what is in that (vastly overwritten document that must have cost the taxpayer an exorbitant amount of money to produce) about motorcycle rider training?

I can tell you the answer now. Nothing. Well, nothing of any significance. Apart from a tougher basic handling skills test, a competency based training and assessment course for newbie’s (which we are yet to see), and some awareness campaigns. LAMS is about the only thing I am aware of that has kicked in; but this doesn't actually teach you anything! Surely this is not rocket science?

At the bottom of the section on training there is a small caption that reads "Many local councils are providing motorcycle skills training and some have developed regional motorcycle strategies that focus on the motorcyclist and their skills."

Most of these are (were) running quite efficiently, were easily accessible, provided more than adequate tuition and relatively cheap to attend. All ACC had to do was to introduce some standard training by consulting previous attendees and the instructors, to come up with a standardised training delivery model that could be upgraded and cater for different abilities of rider. How much do you think that would of cost? Sod all.

But instead, they came up with a living document called Safer Journeys, which certainly has some value, but in reality is a whole bunch of could be's and should be's - no specifics at all. Why? Because nobody has actually taken the time to ask.

Soon, if we are following in Victoria's footsteps, which inevitably we are, we will all have to wear hi-vis vests or risk prosecution.
Funnily enough, MOTONZ is conducting some research into this, and a hi-vis vest may not be the most effective form of visibility. Get ready for Day Running Lights on your helmets people! (Not as silly as it sounds, though).

[FJRider]

ACC really have no idea what is going on in the real world. Why not consult some actual motorcyclists to see what training would be relevant and how it should be delivered?



You mean they have no idea what motorcycle injuries are being sustained in accidents. Or how they happened ... ??? AND ... no records (as opposed to statistics) to prove it ...

Or is it that "Actual motorcyclists" are not having accidents ... (the wannabe motorcyclists maybe)

Perhaps ... it is YOU that joined the "Real World" ... and saw how motorcyclists are injuring themselves ...

It is the motorcycle injuries that caused the ACC levy increase ... not the death rate.

[FJRider]

And I dunno re: the bridge. I think I did that after a week, so cant imagine not doing it for months! but I'm in no way a natural and a lot fazes me so.. I don't get it I guess.

Confidence does wonders ... as does risk assessment. Your progress from the time the L plate was bolted on the GN has been rapid. (Remember the speed some "milestones" were ticked .. ???)

OVER confidence can be a bigger problem (for a learner) ...

Unfamiliar problems faze all people ... and simple motorcycle problems to the inexperienced do seem insurmountable at times.

[Movistar]

You mean they have no idea what motorcycle injuries are being sustained in accidents. Or how they happened ... ??? AND ... no records (as opposed to statistics) to prove it ...

Or is it that "Actual motorcyclists" are not having accidents ... (the wannabe motorcyclists maybe)

Perhaps ... it is YOU that joined the "Real World" ... and saw how motorcyclists are injuring themselves ...

It is the motorcycle injuries that caused the ACC levy increase ... not the death rate.

I'm not quite sure I get what angle you're taking, but yes, records are sceptical, and can be interpreted in as many different ways as you like.
Agreed, recovery from injury is what costs the money. But I'm sure the prevention of accidents/incidents, or at least a decrease in the amount of accidents/incidents is the overall goal, that will inherently lead to less recovery from injury.
My main point is how do ACC propose to do that with the new structure they have implemented?

[FJRider]

I'm not quite sure I get what angle you're taking, but yes, records are sceptical, and can be interpreted in as many different ways as you like.
Agreed, recovery from injury is what costs the money. But I'm sure the prevention of accidents/incidents, or at least a decrease in the amount of accidents/incidents is the overall goal, that will inherently lead to less recovery from injury.
My main point is how do ACC propose to do that with the new structure they have implemented?

You don't know what angle .. (etc) ??? :blink:

ACC have medical records of all motorcycle injury accidents reported ... which doctors have to provide to ACC after the injuries are treated by the doctors. (who then claim costs from ACC)
ACC will have records showing ongoing (or any) compensation payments to those (supposedly) injured in "motorcycle" accidents. So they SHOULD have a better understanding where and when motorcyclists are injured than most of us.

If their records are incorrect ... it would be due to incorrect reporting of accidents. Hardly the fault then ... of ACC "getting it wrong" surely ... ??

If records are "skeptical" ... it would be because of incorrect/false claims as to actual cause of the accident. Not the fault of ACC as such then.

[Movistar]

You don't know what angle .. (etc) ??? :blink:

ACC have medical records of all motorcycle injury accidents reported ... which doctors have to provide to ACC after the injuries are treated by the doctors. (who then claim costs from ACC)
ACC will have records showing ongoing (or any) compensation payments to those (supposedly) injured in "motorcycle" accidents. So they SHOULD have a better understanding where and when motorcyclists are injured than most of us.

If their records are incorrect ... it would be due to incorrect reporting of accidents. Hardly the fault then ... of ACC "getting it wrong" surely ... ??

If records are "skeptical" ... it would be because of incorrect/false claims as to actual cause of the accident. Not the fault of ACC as such then.

Fair enough, I get that.
But would it not be a better use of resources to try and prevent the amount of claims from taking place?
Lets face it, we need ACC or something similar (that's a whole other argument!) and if they need to increase our registration fees to cover the cost of recovery, fine. Providing all the claims are legitimate and are occuring from road accidents.

But how about giving something back that is worthwhile.

For instance, if you attend an approved training day, you get reduced registration for a year. Yes, I know this is easy in principal but difficult in application, but it is achievable if you think it through. That's one suggestion, I'm sure there are many more.

It makes more riders contemplate training, and you get a kickback from attending. Some may even learn something...

I know it seems like I'm bagging ACC, but in reality it is more the thought process, or lack thereof that frustrates me.
The beauty of a large organisational structure.

[FJRider]

Fair enough, I get that.
But would it not be a better use of resources to try and prevent the amount of claims from taking place?

You mean rider training covering the issues that most of the injuries are caused by .. ???


Lets face it, we need ACC or something similar (that's a whole other argument!) and if they need to increase our registration fees to cover the cost of recovery, fine. Providing all the claims are legitimate and are occuring from road accidents.

But how about giving something back that is worthwhile.

mmmmmmm

Who do you propose gives back. Us ... or ACC .. ??? Accurate reporting needed as I said ...


For instance, if you attend an approved training day, you get reduced registration for a year. Yes, I know this is easy in principal but difficult in application, but it is achievable if you think it through. That's one suggestion, I'm sure there are many more.

People seldom learn from courses that they HAVE to attend. Be it for the purpose of safety or saving money. User pays ... do the course and your life (or some blood) may be saved.

You decide if it is worth the expense ...


It makes more riders contemplate training, and you get a kickback from attending. Some may even learn something...

See above ...


I know it seems like I'm bagging ACC, but in reality it is more the thought process, or lack thereof that frustrates me.
The beauty of a large organisational structure.

And the thought processes of some frustrate ME too ...

[Movistar]

You mean rider training covering the issues that most of the injuries are caused by .. ???



mmmmmmm

Who do you propose gives back. Us ... or ACC .. ??? Accurate reporting needed as I said ...



People seldom learn from courses that they HAVE to attend. Be it for the purpose of safety or saving money. User pays ... do the course and your life (or some blood) may be saved.

You decide if it is worth the expense ...



See above ...



And the thought processes of some frustrate ME too ...

Point 1 - Yes.
Point 2 - Us. We are paying a huge amount of registration fee so it would be nice to get some back.
Point 3 - Some training is better than no training at all. No one is being forced into attending. It's a matter of choice.
Point 4 - See above.
Point 5 - Ditto.

[nzspokes]

Problem is, ACC had already earmarked these providers before any other tenders were considered, and little consultation was given to the delivery structure. Go to http://www.rideforever.co.nz/training/ and book yourself in - see what kind of response you get (apart from an automated one), if any.

ACC really have no idea what is going on in the real world. Why not consult some actual motorcyclists to see what training would be relevant and how it should be delivered?

And what has happened with MOTONZ? Gareth Morgan is no longer chair (too busy hunting cats) and lets face it, this whole concept was put in place to dull the uproar of increased registration fees to an audible murmour. $30 from our registration goes to them (Motorcycle Safety Levy) to administer safety on our behalf - is this really still happening? Personally, I've had one update from them in the last few months regarding projects that are being undertaken, but once again, are they consulting the people that actually are paying for their existance?

Interesting to see South Island people get the proper course. Aucklanders have to go to the race track.

Its a shame such a good opportunity has been lost.

[Maha]

Its a shame this opportunity has been lost.




Its a shame such a good opportunity has been lost.

Has the opportunity things been found yet?

[FJRider]

Point 1 - Yes.
Point 2 - Us. We are paying a huge amount of registration fee so it would be nice to get some back.
Point 3 - Some training is better than no training at all. No one is being forced into attending. It's a matter of choice.
Point 4 - See above.
Point 5 - Ditto.

Point 1. Do you not believe ACC intend to provide courses that cover those issues .. ??

Point 2. A huge number of motorcycle riders are claiming compensation for injuries received while riding. Some of those will be for the rest of their lives. One of those is a Harley Rider that featured in the news recently ... for/after crashing while fleeing from Police. He was too badly injured to be charged by the Police.
Those that need it ... get it. If you don't need it ... why should you get some back, just because you want it .. ??
The Registration fee is small. The ACC levy included in the fee is due to the high likelyhood of us injuring ourselves. The high number of non road registered motorcycle accidents included in ACC statistics ... is not helping our cause either.

Point 3. To get a few months off their restricted license time ... would "encourage" attendance at such courses ... or for a reduction in insurance fees ....

Point 4. All the rider training courses being run aren't worth a dam ... if people can't or wont pay for the courses ...

Point 5. The attitude of some ... as to the value those courses would be to them ... needs to change.

[Blackbird]

Interesting to see South Island people get the proper course. Aucklanders have to go to the race track.

Its a shame such a good opportunity has been lost.

Hmmmm.... Are we judging mainly on price? Track-based training does have value, but it falls short on roadcraft - improving situational awareness on real roads is such an important part of raising survival skills. Whilst you might pay over $400 for an advanced roadcraft course from, for example, Philip McDaid or Tricia O'Connor in Auckland, you get one on one tuition for the day specifically aimed at improving your personal skill set. Guess it's a question of what you're prepared to pay for value and what skills you want to work on.

[nzspokes]

Hmmmm.... Are we judging mainly on price? Track-based training does have value, but it falls short on roadcraft - improving situational awareness on real roads is such an important part of raising survival skills. Whilst you might pay over $400 for an advanced roadcraft course from, for example, Philip McDaid or Tricia O'Connor in Auckland, you get one on one tuition for the day specifically aimed at improving your personal skill set. Guess it's a question of what you're prepared to pay for value and what skills you want to work on.

I would not recommend sending new or returning riders to Taupo to do a track course from Auckland. Yes price will be a big issue for people that need this. Cost of getting there, accomodation etc makes it expensive.

Where is if one of the other proffessional coaches can manage to run there courses in Auckland.

[Tricia1000]

80% of EACH "ACC subsidised" course, MUST TAKE PLACE ON THE ROAD!!!
So, the majority will be on the road.
the crap I was told before about needing to start at the bottom level, to work my way up, is crap!! We are all free to choose whichever course we wish to do.
It's the distance required to travel to access these courses, that I have the biggest issue with.

Tricia1000
RoADA (Dip)
Consultant to NZTA


Interesting to see South Island people get the proper course. Aucklanders have to go to the race track.

Its a shame such a good opportunity has been lost.

[Blackbird]

That's partially the point I'm making. There are trainers in the Auckland area who have a huge reputation for building real life roadcraft skills. Their one on one training will naturally cost a bit more than the subsidised skills, but may well be cheaper when you've factored in travelling and accommodation costs. The quality of their training is also based on reputable measurable standards. All I'm saying is that there are other options, it's a question of how much you're prepared to pay or looking at it another way, how much you value your life.

[Movistar]

Point 1. Do you not believe ACC intend to provide courses that cover those issues .. ??


I think the intention is there, I'm still not convinced of the execution of the courses...



Point 2. A huge number of motorcycle riders are claiming compensation for injuries received while riding. Some of those will be for the rest of their lives. One of those is a Harley Rider that featured in the news recently ... for/after crashing while fleeing from Police. He was too badly injured to be charged by the Police.
Those that need it ... get it. If you don't need it ... why should you get some back, just because you want it .. ??
The Registration fee is small. The ACC levy included in the fee is due to the high likelyhood of us injuring ourselves. The high number of non road registered motorcycle accidents included in ACC statistics ... is not helping our cause either.

Point 3. To get a few months off their restricted license time ... would "encourage" attendance at such courses ... or for a reduction in insurance fees ....

Point 4. All the rider training courses being run aren't worth a dam ... if people can't or wont pay for the courses ...

Point 5. The attitude of some ... as to the value those courses would be to them ... needs to change.



Agreed.




The ACC levy included in the fee is due to the high likelyhood of us injuring ourselves. The high number of non road registered motorcycle accidents included in ACC statistics ... is not helping our cause either.

Exactly.

[nzspokes]

That's partially the point I'm making. There are trainers in the Auckland area who have a huge reputation for building real life roadcraft skills. Their one on one training will naturally cost a bit more than the subsidised skills, but may well be cheaper when you've factored in travelling and accommodation costs. The quality of their training is also based on reputable measurable standards. All I'm saying is that there are other options, it's a question of how much you're prepared to pay or looking at it another way, how much you value your life.

Sorry, I missunderstood what you were saying. Yes i would agree on the other trainers. I have done a couple from other providers and they have been very good.

My concern is new and returning riders not getting quality training.

[Blackbird]

Sorry, I missunderstood what you were saying. Yes i would agree on the other trainers. I have done a couple from other providers and they have been very good.

My concern is new and returning riders not getting quality training.

Likewise :Punk:. Cost is always a valid issue, particularly for young riders who are just making their way in the world I guess. However, when you see the amount of money spent on farkles or even the cost of a bike in the first place, $400-500 on personalised training isn't outrageous considering the massive benefit - a point which you make from personal experience.

[FJRider]

Sorry I should say lost for Aucklanders.

So far ... only Aucklanders seem to think they are "Missing out" ... :killingme

Perhaps less "inconvenienced" than say South Island west coasters would be ... wouldn't you say .. ??? <_<

[caspernz]

Well I'm probably ignorant in saying this, but if a new or returning biker wants to do training, he or she will. Anyone who rides a bike because it supposedly is a cheap form of transport will end up on the bus (or in an ambulance) before too long. Weekend only riders, short on experience, how do you convince them to spend even more money on a hobby? Financial incentive ain't gonna do it...

The stuff I've seen bikers do over the years makes me wonder how their own stupidity hasn't killed them sooner. Like the clown I saw recently with a 5.5 inch rear rimmed roadbike, with a 150 section adventure bike tyre spooned onto it :facepalm: and I ain't friggin kidding!! And all that 'cause he couldn't afford a new road tyre when he got a puncture...:facepalm:

So can you see this clown spending money on any rider training? Yeah me neither...

[bosslady]

Likewise :Punk:. Cost is always a valid issue, particularly for young riders who are just making their way in the world I guess. However, when you see the amount of money spent on farkles or even the cost of a bike in the first place, $400-500 on personalised training isn't outrageous considering the massive benefit - a point which you make from personal experience.

Personally speaking, when I got a loan from the bank (not much, but I was too keen to wait whilst saving) I got enough for a bike, enough for quality gear and enough for a couple of private lessons (incl. bike) with an instructor (not cheap!) but I definitely don't imagine most newbies would factor the cost of training into how much they will spend on the initial outlay.

[Blackbird]

Personally speaking, when I got a loan from the bank (not much, but I was too keen to wait whilst saving) I got enough for a bike, enough for quality gear and enough for a couple of private lessons (incl. bike) with an instructor (not cheap!) but I definitely don't imagine most newbies would factor the cost of training into how much they will spend on the initial outlay.

Good for you :Punk:. You're quite right though. When I started riding, I didn't know what I didn't know and formal training wasn't even on the radar. Although I did a one day advanced course in 2003 (which helped a lot) it was only after joining the IAM that it became apparent how much more there was to learn!

[Movistar]

Well I'm probably ignorant in saying this, but if a new or returning biker wants to do training, he or she will. Anyone who rides a bike because it supposedly is a cheap form of transport will end up on the bus (or in an ambulance) before too long. Weekend only riders, short on experience, how do you convince them to spend even more money on a hobby? Financial incentive ain't gonna do it...

The stuff I've seen bikers do over the years makes me wonder how their own stupidity hasn't killed them sooner. Like the clown I saw recently with a 5.5 inch rear rimmed roadbike, with a 150 section adventure bike tyre spooned onto it :facepalm: and I ain't friggin kidding!! And all that 'cause he couldn't afford a new road tyre when he got a puncture...:facepalm:

So can you see this clown spending money on any rider training? Yeah me neither...

Totally agree with you. You're never going to get every motorcyclist to do even some form of training - only those that want to.
But the more carrots you can dangle, the more it may attract, whether that is a financial incentive or otherwise.

It's the old story, if we take the warning labels off everything, eventually the problem will sort itself out.

[FJRider]

Good for you :Punk:. You're quite right though. When I started riding, I didn't know what I didn't know and formal training wasn't even on the radar. Although I did a one day advanced course in 2003 (which helped a lot) it was only after joining the IAM that it became apparent how much more there was to learn!

When I started riding motorcycles ... the only bit of MY riding kit, that was manufactured for use on a motorcycle ... was my crash helmet. (a $5 job from a local second hand shop) I then bought a new visor for it. (another $8)

Two months on a learners ... (no L plate) then the 10 minute Full test.

[bluninja]

When I started riding motorcycles ... the only bit of MY riding kit, that was manufactured for use on a motorcycle ... was my crash helmet. (a $5 job from a local second hand shop) I then bought a new visor for it. (another $8)

Two months on a learners ... (no L plate) then the 10 minute Full test.

You were lucky....my second hand bell helmet was several sizes too large and had no visor...at 50mph it would start to rise off my head just held in place by the chin strap. I missed out on taking the 10 min round the block test in the uk.....it changed whilst I was out of the country...so had to do CBT and pursuit test.

Took my test, bought new sports tourer and rode it for a week before having 2 days private tuition to improve my riding. 6 months later an advanced riding course.

[nzspokes]

So far ... only Aucklanders seem to think they are "Missing out" ... :killingme

Perhaps less "inconvenienced" than say South Island west coasters would be ... wouldn't you say .. ??? <_<

Well nobody lives south of the Bombays do they? :blink:

But that's another example of how badly thought out the system is unless your SI guy moves around the island. At least he does it on the road.

[nzspokes]

You were lucky....my second hand bell helmet was several sizes too large and had no visor...at 50mph it would start to rise off my head just held in place by the chin strap. I missed out on taking the 10 min round the block test in the uk.....it changed whilst I was out of the country...so had to do CBT and pursuit test.

Took my test, bought new sports tourer and rode it for a week before having 2 days private tuition to improve my riding. 6 months later an advanced riding course.

I had to ride a 200 year old motorbike to school in the snow with just me undies on.........:laugh:

[FJRider]

Well nobody lives south of the Bombays do they? :blink:

Do the one's north of it have a life though ... <_<


But that's another example of how badly thought out the system is unless your SI guy moves around the island. At least he does it on the road.

Nowhere in the south island is more than a days ride away. I hadn't realised the north island was any different. :shifty:

[bluninja]

I had to ride a 200 year old motorbike to school in the snow with just me undies on.........:laugh:

Oooooooooh.....I used to dream of even touching a 200 year old motorbike. We just had fossilised bike parts held together with dried snot with melted tar from t'roads as fuel.

And now for something completey different...KB to put a thread back on topic?

So ACC training providers are announced.
People were asked to tender (or not) and the ACC chose some. Some people think they made the wrong choices.
Peeps are unahppy with the missed opportunities (as they see them) by ACC in subsidising training.
There is concerns at availability ofr training due to course location.
There is concern that road based training courses are being run on racetracks.
There is concern that the people that the training is aimed at (the people that cost ACC loads by crashing and surviving) will not take up any training without loads of incentives.
There are concerns that people still remember Monty Python sketches.

[Tricia1000]

But that's another example of how badly thought out the system is unless your SI guy moves around the island. At least he does it on the road.

As I mentioned. 80% of each course MUST BE CONDUCTED ON ROAD!!!! No buts, or maybes.:yes:
Tricia1000
RoADA (Dip)
Consultant to NZTA

[Tricia1000]

Don't forget Roadsafe in Wellington. They do their training on road. They have cover up to the Waikato (Not sure EXACTLY where the cut-off point is. They did ask me however, if I would do some training in Tauranga for them. Which I said I would do.


Well nobody lives south of the Bombays do they? :blink:

But that's another example of how badly thought out the system is unless your SI guy moves around the island. At least he does it on the road.

Tricia1000
RoADA (Dip)
Consultant to NZTA

[bosslady]

I attended one of these pro rider acc subsidised novice courses on Friday and it was great. I totally recommend this to any learner/novice and honestly for $20, you can't go wrong and everyone should be taking advantage of this! I did the one in Sth Auckland with Chris and he was a really great, knowledgeable guy we met at the autobahn cafe near BP Bombay although a couple of people accidentally went to the papakura one lol. I almost made the same mistake so maybe when you guys send out the email a week or whatever beforehand maybe you could write a note that it's not the papakura one? Anyway thanks a lot for this and also I am wondering if you offer some kind of other tuition because I want to grow my confidence riding on gravel?

[SNF]

Did a Pro rider event today, think it was called safe rider? Was fantastic, got heaps out of it wanted to work on cornering. I would do silly noob things like chop the throttle, get on the gas late etc. They showed which line to take, how to set up through the corner. Instead of worrying about cornering I dream of it lol. Also clocked up 4,000 km.

[raftn]

Did a Pro rider event today, think it was called safe rider? Was fantastic, got heaps out of it wanted to work on cornering. I would do silly noob things like chop the throttle, get on the gas late etc. They showed which line to take, how to set up through the corner. Instead of worrying about cornering I dream of it lol. Also clocked up 4,000 km.

The course was seven hours long..what else did you learn? Did you ride the same piece of road three times till you got it right, or were you taken off to other back rides to see if you new found skills were working for you?

[bosslady]

The course was seven hours long..what else did you learn? Did you ride the same piece of road three times till you got it right, or were you taken off to other back rides to see if you new found skills were working for you?

When I went we did some slow speed stuff in a car park, braking, u turns etc. Road positioning i.e. at roundabouts. We went through some of the same roundabouts a couple of times and then at the end of the day we went out to some obscure place to get some icecream.

[Tricia1000]

Was that 4000km in one day?

Tricia1000
RoADA (Dip)
Consultant to NZTA


Did a Pro rider event today, think it was called safe rider? Was fantastic, got heaps out of it wanted to work on cornering. I would do silly noob things like chop the throttle, get on the gas late etc. They showed which line to take, how to set up through the corner. Instead of worrying about cornering I dream of it lol. Also clocked up 4,000 km.

[bosslady]

Was that 4000km in one day?

Tricia1000
RoADA (Dip)
Consultant to NZTA

No. He means since he took up riding.

[starbug]

I attended one of these pro rider acc subsidised novice courses on Friday and it was great. I totally recommend this to any learner/novice and honestly for $20, you can't go wrong and everyone should be taking advantage of this! I did the one in Sth Auckland with Chris and he was a really great, knowledgeable guy we met at the autobahn cafe near BP Bombay although a couple of people accidentally went to the papakura one lol. I almost made the same mistake so maybe when you guys send out the email a week or whatever beforehand maybe you could write a note that it's not the papakura one? Anyway thanks a lot for this and also I am wondering if you offer some kind of other tuition because I want to grow my confidence riding on gravel?


did you know that he taught Angelina Jolie to ride? he does stunts and stuff for the movies too. you have been taught by one of the best riders/instructors around. i know, i used to work with him..... shame he had to move away from the HB.:scooter:

[starbug]

Was that 4000km in one day?

Tricia1000
RoADA (Dip)
Consultant to NZTA

:facepalm:

[bosslady]

did you know that he taught Angelina Jolie to ride? he does stunts and stuff for the movies too. you have been taught by one of the best riders/instructors around. i know, i used to work with him..... shame he had to move away from the HB.:scooter:


Are ya takin the piss? about the Angelina Jolie bit... I know he said he'd done stunts and was going to or had not long been back from some country that starts with N? obscure sounding one. Sounds like I am very lucky!

[starbug]

No I'm not joking! That was for the first tombraider film. He taught Matt Damon for Bourne films and a whole heap of others. Last time I spoke to him he was helping Tom hardy on the mad max in Africa somewhere.
He's a bit of a loon on a bike though ......

[Mrs Shrek]

Taken forever to find, but Dan Ornsby (www.rideforever.co.nz) covers the bottom of the Sth Island. He has also started a course in Central Otago, will be worth checking out