Motobikes pay same toll as cars? How's that work?

[Tigadee]

I had to pay $2.20 on my motorbike, and it's $2.20 for a car too. Why is that? In other countries, motorbikes pay less or even not at all!

Do our two-wheeled vehicles wear out the roads as much as the four-wheeled variety? Do we influence traffic congestion as other vehicles do? We pollute less (carbon-wise, maybe not so audio-wise :laugh:), take up less space on the road, already pay high ACC fees/rego...

Very unfair, I feel...

[Drew]

I don't believe that motorcycles have a smaller carbon footprint. But that's got fuck all to do with the tolls I'd think.

[Tigadee]

Burn less = less carbon, no? :scratch:

[paturoa]

AA lobbied tptb that it was un-fair that bikes were free.

So tptb went out and spent a shed load of money to add new cameras to take photos from behind. They then had to spend another bunch of money to change and upgrade the number plate recognition and charging software to handle photos from both directions. Other costs included signage, web sites, media notifications etc etc etc.

I've just tried to find a media article that stated that the expectation was that it would NEVER break even, ie the NET additional revenue would never cover the costs (edit: I couldn't find it)

So well done AA you yet again have met my expectations. And to tptb, you are a bunch of retards!

[Drew]

Burn less = less carbon, no? :scratch:

Per person/engine capacity litre, lots of bikes use much much more fuel than cars. Depending on how the engine is used. Tyres is another biggie, bikes use more than cars, and the environmental impact of tyres is enormous.

I'm happy to be wrong, but all things considered, bikes are far from 'green' as far as I can see.

[Bald Eagle]

The same wonderful AA that have a seat on Motonz spending our $30 levy fund : tui ad anyone

[ellipsis]

Very unfair, I feel...



...if you dwell on the fair/ unfair parts to life...you are wasting what could be quality time...

[Akzle]

don't come north. =P

OR, go waiwera or 16. fuck the corporate world, and all that...

[Little Miss Trouble]

Fyi when the toll road was first introduced (and free for bikes) we did a experiment, one bike via Waiwera one via the toll road. Both arrived at the lights in Orewa at the same time, so going over the hill adds bigger all time and is much more interesting

[arcane12]

Yeah, no, motorbikes are not so good pollution wise. http://www.latimes.com/news/la-hy-throttle11-2008jun11,0,6054455.story
Also covered on Mythbusters, and we all trust the science that they do right?


However what does that have to do with tolls? Any enviromental damage a vehicle would do should be covered by feul taxes and licencing fees. That vehicle will be doing that on any road, more in fact if they take the free route as it would take longer, emit more gases, do more damage to the roads.

So the money is a convenience tax. And to recover some of the losses. Since you can get more people into a car, and it seems more often a car will have more than one person, should not cars pay more based on that fact?

[Tigadee]

...if you dwell on the fair/ unfair parts to life...you are wasting what could be quality time...

Fair enough! :bleh:

Well, it only took me two minutes to start this post...


Fyi when the toll road was first introduced (and free for bikes) we did a experiment, one bike via Waiwera one via the toll road. Both arrived at the lights in Orewa at the same time, so going over the hill adds bigger all time and is much more interesting

True of course, but I didn't have a choice as I had to follow my daughter's school bus and I didn't know the way to the destination. That'll learn me!


So the money is a convenience tax. And to recover some of the losses. Since you can get more people into a car, and it seems more often a car will have more than one person, should not cars pay more based on that fact?

Nek minit, TPTB raises the car toll to $4.40! :lol: Cagers say "Thanks a lot, Arcane12 and Tigadee! :angry2:"

[Gremlin]

Fyi when the toll road was first introduced (and free for bikes) we did a experiment, one bike via Waiwera one via the toll road. Both arrived at the lights in Orewa at the same time, so going over the hill adds bigger all time and is much more interesting
Guess it depends if you're going to Orewa or down the motorway. I guesstimated that for a motorway trip, Orewa added 3 minutes to a motorway trip (very unscientific). Depends if you get caught over the hills by a dawdling car as it's all yellow lined...

[Little Miss Trouble]

Guess it depends if you're going to Orewa or down the motorway. I guesstimated that for a motorway trip, Orewa added 3 minutes to a motorway trip (very unscientific). Depends if you get caught over the hills by a dawdling car as it's all yellow lined...
I don't remember there being yellow lines, are they new or have I been selectively colour blind?
Back when I rode around that area a lot I was living in the bays area and preferred East Coast Rd over the motorway anyway so it made sense to go that way

[BigAl]

Go to Tauranga instead, the toll road is free for motorcycles and push bikes.

[rastuscat]

Sometimes tolls are about cost recovery, sometimes they are about revenue streams.

Bikes don't wear the road out as much as cars, but get charged the same toll. In this case it's obvious that it's about the income stream.

Make the most of the old road, it's far nicer now that most cars take the new one. After all, isn't it what bikes are about?

[Tigadee]

True... And if any motorbikes should stray onto the toll road, well, tax the heck out of them (case in point)! :laugh:

[MrKiwi]

The same wonderful AA that have a seat on Motonz spending our $30 levy fund : tui ad anyone

except this AA member argued the opposite ie that motorbikes should be exempt the toll - I'm not always listened to!

[FJRider]

Toll roads ... ??? never heard of them ... :scratch:

[Daffyd]

Since you can get more people into a car, and it seems more often a car will have more than one person, should not cars pay more based on that fact?

I have vivid recollections of the last time I drove in Auckland of seeing prolly 80% of cars with just a driver.

[Drew]

I have vivid recollections of the last time I drove in Auckland of seeing prolly 80% of cars with just a driver.I don't think that's the case on the toll road in question. Less commuters and more travelers I imagine.

Only a guess though.

[caspernz]

Small piece of cardboard and duct tape...next question please? :innocent:

[nzspokes]

Im mainly surprised you rode far enough to find a road that has a toll. :nya:

So when ya coming out for a good weekend ride? I may do northern loop next weekend.:scooter:

[nzspokes]

Small piece of cardboard and duct tape...next question please? :innocent:

Thats the hard way, just wheelie through.

[Usarka]

I don't think that's the case on the toll road in question. Less commuters and more travelers I imagine.

Only a guess though.

Would be interesting to see some stats but I'd guess the other way around. Weekends and hols would see a lot of holidayers, but even then a lot of them still solo.

But the road still gets shitloads of traffic during the week with people working and commuting long distances.

[davereid]

Yeah, no, motorbikes are not so good pollution wise. http://www.latimes.com/news/la-hy-throttle11-2008jun11,0,6054455.story
Also covered on Mythbusters, and we all trust the science that they do right?

That article is complete crap. It keeps on re-surfacing but it has no basis in fact.

The reason for the "apparent" poor pollution figures from motorcycles is the lack of emission controls. An engine after all is just an engine, it the bits you hang off it like catalytic converters, fuel injection, exhaust gas re-circulation etc that changes the emission profile.

Many modern motorcycles have exactly the same set of emission controls as a car, my ER6F for example is sold with a catalytic converter. So if comparing vehicles with similar levels of emission control equipment the bike will win hands down every time.

But the authors of these articles like to compare a non emission controlled super bike with an emission controlled Nana car, no bias eh.


And the authors like to forget the other facts.....


(1) Much of a vehicles emissions are made before it even goes on the road, during the manufacturing process. So an 85 kg moped has already saved the planet compared to the 3000kg 4WD.

(2) Catalytic converters don't work until they are hot. So most of them don't work ever on that commute to work.

(3) Catalytic converters rob power - your engine must run fractionally off tune for them to work so engines produce less power and must be fed more fuel than standard motors.

(4) Catalytic converters have a limited life span, different manufacturers have different figures, but 5 to 7 years is a common estimate of life span. NZ has a fleet average age of 14 years. So most cars are just carting around 20kg of useless catalytic converter, and will be for 80% of their lives.

(5) Catalytic converters pump out carbon dioxide and water-vapour - the two worst greenhouses gasses. Reducing toxic pollutants has occured, but not at no cost.

The "bikes are worse polluters" things is a beat up by anti bike nuts, and needs to be firmly rebutted. Even Wellington City Council has tried it, its crap and needs to be put away.

[Usarka]

(1) Much of a vehicles emissions are made before it even goes on the road, during the manufacturing process. So an 85 kg moped has already saved the planet compared to the 3000kg 4WD.


But you'd get shitloads more mileage out of the 4wd.....

Most bikes are dead or written of by 70k (based on the tea leaves in the bottom of my mug)

[breakaway]

Do our two-wheeled vehicles wear out the roads as much as the four-wheeled variety?

This post sums it up nicely:


There's actually a very good reason why bikes shouldn't pay

Road tolls are not really to pay for the road (work out how long it would take at $2 minus collection costs).



They are actually a part of a recognised government strategy of road pricing, which in turn is part of a strategy of Travel Demand Management. (Google it)

This, in effect, says that we can't afford enough roads. So, the roads get congested . So, if we make using roads more expensive, then the demand will be reduced. Thus solving the congestion problem without the cost of new roads.

But- bikes don't contribute bugger all to the congestion. So why should we pay what is really a congestion tax, designed to mitigate the congestion we don't cause? Congestion is caused by cars and trucks. So cars and trucks should pay for it.

[MrKiwi]

That article is complete crap. It keeps on re-surfacing but it has no basis in fact.

The reason for the "apparent" poor pollution figures from motorcycles is the lack of emission controls. An engine after all is just an engine, it the bits you hang off it like catalytic converters, fuel injection, exhaust gas re-circulation etc that changes the emission profile...

...Many modern motorcycles have exactly the same set of emission controls as a car, my ER6F for example is sold with a catalytic converter. So if comparing vehicles with similar levels of emission control equipment the bike will win hands down every time.

The "bikes are worse polluters" things is a beat up by anti bike nuts, and needs to be firmly rebutted. Even Wellington City Council has tried it, its crap and needs to be put away.

Almost! It's not just them emissions control equipment, it is also the standard to which those controls are designed to.

At the time the transport rules governing emissions controls were bought in, it was to address poor ambient air quality in Auckland (its just you had to do all of NZ to control Auckland) where transport is a significant, but not the only, contributor to air quality. The big issues were with diesel vehicles, but the high number of petrol vehicles also poses a problem. Motorbikes are such a small proportion of the fleet that controls on them were deemed unnecessary - as a fleet their contribution to the overall ambient air quality is almost unmeasurable. The emission standards on new motorbikes are required to meet the standards of the markets they are manufactured in or where for the markets they are being sold in bulk into (ie mainly Europe).