Grid lock and bicycle lanes

[Petah]

Is it illegal to ride down a bicycle lane when traffic is grid locked?

On my normal commute to work traffic is grid locked from my driveway to the intersection (about 1200 meters). There is a bicycle lane with space for car parking the whole way. Near to the intersection it splits into 2 lanes, and the left lane is almost always empty. Is it illegal to ride down the left until it splits into 2 lanes?

[Subike]

I do it every day, albeit at a slow speed , about as fast as a push bike. I have passed police cars that have been in the traffic, and have not had them bother me. I will continue to do so untill spoken to and informed by a traffic enforcement office that it is wrong.

[FJRider]

It is for bicycles only ... anybody that uses it for motorised vehicular traffic use should be prepared for an infringement notice to that effect.

Should you (anybody) decide to ride in that "lane" ... good luck.

[arcane12]

It is for bicycles only ... anybody that uses it for motorised vehicular traffic use should be prepared for an infringement notice to that effect.

Should you (anybody) decide to ride in that "lane" ... good luck.

+1

A bicycle lane (and a centre median strip) can only be used for up to 50 metres when turning e.g.. a side road or parking space.

So an interesting point is that in theory a long line of cars in the bicycle lane waiting to turn are all breaking the law. I believe it is ignored in the interest of traffic flow? I guess a lesser of two evils?

[speights_bud]

As above, ride 50 metres, indicate left as though pulling over to park, change your mind, indicate right and repeat:rolleyes::sleep:

[Ender EnZed]

Is it illegal to ride down a bicycle lane when traffic is grid locked?


Yes.

Do it anyway. If you do it right and don't fuck anyone off then you'll probably get away with doing it everyday.

[Tigadee]

Cyclists seem to mind, they tell you off when they catch up to you at the red light.:weird:

[FJRider]

Cyclists seem to mind, they tell you off when they catch up to you at the red light.:weird:

Then point to the camera they have attached to their helmet.

[st00ji]

Cyclists seem to mind, they tell you off when they catch up to you at the red light.:weird:

just pretend you have earphones in and ignore them.

[Berries]

Cyclists seem to mind, they tell you off when they catch up to you at the red light.:weird:
There's your problem.


Part 3 Traffic Signs and Signals

3.14.2(a)

Cyclists riding fully within a marked cycle lane installed by the road controlling authority are exempt from complying with red traffic signals and any other road rules they deem to be beneath them unless they are witnessed carrying out such behaviour by an enforcement officer.

[rastuscat]

It's an offence to ride any motorised vehicle in a Special Vehicle Lane i.e. cycle lane. $150 infringement.

Truth is, most cops do nothing about it.

Truth also is, a cycle lane is a bloody dangerous place to ride a bike of any sort. Traffic turning through from the other direction, or turning left without looking, knock bike riders off all day, every day in this country. Our office alone sees at least 5 such crashes each week.

[Scuba_Steve]

Is it illegal to ride down a bicycle lane when traffic is grid locked?


Not officially illegal, doesn't say we can use them but nor does it say we cannot. however if a PIG needs his quota KPI & decides you're it, the "unbiased" judge will always side with them regardless of actual law (at-least at lower levels) & I don't think this ones been challenged at higher levels to have a "actual" answer


It's an offence to ride any motorised vehicle in a Special Vehicle Lane i.e. cycle lane. $150 infringement.

Truth is, most cops do nothing about it.

Truth also is, a cycle lane is a bloody dangerous place to ride a bike of any sort. Traffic turning through from the other direction, or turning left without looking, knock bike riders off all day, every day in this country. Our office alone sees at least 5 such crashes each week.

Showing your ignorance of the law again Mr R.Cat, motorised bikes are most certainly allowed to used special vehicle lanes, remembering bus & transit lanes too are "special vehicle lanes" and unless we are specifically excluded we are entitled to utilise said lanes

But you're right it is dangerous & I wouldn't bother using cycle lanes due to the danger of cars & the possibility of of meeting deadly peadlys (unless you're happy idling along at their speed)

[Swoop]

I use one in particular, regularly. Gridlocked traffic due to a very poorly sequenced intersection means a slow journey up the cycle-lane. If I want to sit in traffic I will take the car...
Always be careful for those who intend to turn left across your path!

[Tigadee]

just pretend you have earphones in and ignore them.

Nah, I just show them my fake handicap sticker and then point at my sunglasses and pull out my white walking stick. I do that when I park at handicap spots too.

They suddeny become very courteous and obliging... Good people these cyclists... :lol:

[rastuscat]

Showing your ignorance of the law again Mr R.Cat, motorised bikes are most certainly allowed to used special vehicle lanes, remembering bus & transit lanes too are "special vehicle lanes" and unless we are specifically excluded we are entitled to utilise said lanes

But you're right it is dangerous & I wouldn't bother using cycle lanes due to the danger of cars & the possibility of of meeting deadly peadlys (unless you're happy idling along at their speed)

I rushed the message this morning coz I was heading out the door on the way to work. I left out a minor detail.

Power assisted pedal cycles can use cycle lanes legally. Anything from a moped and upward can't.

D719 Unauthorised use of special vehicle lane
Land Transport Act 1998, s.40 & Offences & Penalties Regs 1999, r4 & 2.3(1)(f) Road User Rule 2004
Maximum fine = $1,000, Maximum prison = 0, Minimum disqualification = 0, Notice type = N/T
SP1 Being the driver of a vehicle on a road used a special vehicle lane reserved for a specific class or classes of vehicle other than the one being driven.

Just to clarify, motorcycle and mopeds can't legally use cycle lanes.

Happy to go into a whole long winded debate Skoober, but it's pointless.

[rastuscat]

For the record, I think the roads and cyclists would be safer without cycle lanes.

They cause cyclists to think they can cycle up the left of a line of stationary vehicles with the expectation that nobody will cross their path. How wrong can you be.

[arcane12]

And to mention one last thing, without going overboard on details, motorbikes can use transit lanes, but not bus only lanes (unless the lane is only restricted to buses during specific hours, outside of which it reverts to it's usual rules).

I can google it and post the exact wording (or you could do it yourself), but I looked it up recently (I wanted to know what the rules were for motorbikes and T2 and T3 lanes (I need to stop using parentheses, it's a curse)).

[f2dz]

I doubt your insurance would cover you either if you somehow had an accident inside a cycle lane. What's wrong with riding down the right side of cars when it's gridlocked, within the lane, providng there's space? That's legal.

[willytheekid]

For the record, I think the roads and cyclists would be safer without cycle lanes.

They cause cyclists to think they can cycle up the left of a line of stationary vehicles with the expectation that nobody will cross their path. How wrong can you be.

+1 :yes:

As far as using bike lanes goes :crazy:
The results speak volumes!
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/136359-A-rant-How-NOT-to-filter-through-traffic-in-Ch-ch-rush-hour (this kid was DAMN lucky he got off so light)

And then theres my idiot work mate who just dosn't learn!
Last year on his scooter....speeding down the bike lane...and didn't even think about the turning traffic! = Hit a car turning through stationary traffic :pinch:
Last Month on his 1800cc cruiser...speeding down the bike lane...and once again!!...hit a car turining through stationary traffic :facepalm:
(as stated...he's an idiot!)
Three perfect examples of why using a bike lane AND riding down the left side of traffic may cost you MUCH more than a $1000 fine!

I use bus lanes...I freely admit that...but it is legal to do so in ChCh**, but Im DAMN cautious about it and ALWAYS slow right the fuck down when approaching a side road...I like being able to walk...and breath!

** I got stopped by an unmarked POPO car for cruising down a bus lane (well, a hand came out the window and gestured "please come see me for a "talk" lol)...pulled up beside him, and the officer said it was illegal, I replyed "no sir...it is legal", and pulled a piece of paper out of the tank bag with the ChCh council bus lane laws on it...officer read it, passed it to his mate, both laughed and said "Well, that clears that up eh...you have a nice day mate":yes:.
...POPO are just people too, they can't be expected to know EVERY tiny little detail of the law (Hell...I didnt even realise I could legally use certain marked bus lanes for YEARS!...hence the piece of paper)

Ride safe Kbers:love:

ps:...Rastus...are you EVER going to share with us what new toy you bought? (My $'s on another churman steed :laugh:)...this is after all, a biker site!...and we likes seeing shiny new bikes:drool: :laugh:

[JimO]

Cyclists seem to mind, they tell you off when they catch up to you at the red light.:weird:
when was the last time a cyclist stopped at a red light

[Akzle]

even on a motobike, i dislike cyclists with a passion.
fuck em and their lanes.

carry a 4 foot length of garden hose, in any vehicle. y'know.. for when they need it.
:spanking:

[strandedinnz]

even on a motobike, i dislike cyclists with a passion.
fuck em and their lanes.

carry a 4 foot length of garden hose, in any vehicle. y'know.. for when they need it.
:spanking:

You like giving them a surprise colonic irrigation ? ;)

[nzspokes]

Cyclists seem to mind, they tell you off when they catch up to you at the red light.:weird:

Maybe if you road faster them they do they wouldnt catch you.....

[imac]

when was the last time a cyclist stopped at a red light

I did this morning about 5 times :innocent:

[Scuba_Steve]

Just to clarify, motorcycle and mopeds can't legally use cycle lanes.

Happy to go into a whole long winded debate Skoober, but it's pointless.

no, no you are right. I just hadn't properly checked it out (never been of interest to me) but you are right... So best to just stick to Bus & Transit lanes if ya want to use "special lanes" :yes:

[Flip]

I rushed the message this morning coz I was heading out the door on the way to work. I left out a minor detail.

Power assisted pedal cycles can use cycle lanes legally. Anything from a moped and upward can't.

D719 Unauthorised use of special vehicle lane
Land Transport Act 1998, s.40 & Offences & Penalties Regs 1999, r4 & 2.3(1)(f) Road User Rule 2004
Maximum fine = $1,000, Maximum prison = 0, Minimum disqualification = 0, Notice type = N/T
SP1 Being the driver of a vehicle on a road used a special vehicle lane reserved for a specific class or classes of vehicle other than the one being driven.

Just to clarify, motorcycle and mopeds can't legally use cycle lanes.

Happy to go into a whole long winded debate Skoober, but it's pointless.

Well thats your interpretation of a traffic regulation.:Police:

[pritch]

Depends what I'm riding; the moped is completely different to the bike.

We don't get "gridlock" locally but if the traffic stops, on the moped, cycle lanes, footpaths, and driveways all come into play. Whatever it takes to keep moving.

One day I might get a fine but I've been doing it for years. And I won't write about the fine here and give y'all the satisfaction. :whistle:

[rastuscat]

no, no you are right. I just hadn't properly checked it out (never been of interest to me) but you are right... So best to just stick to Bus & Transit lanes if ya want to use "special lanes" :yes:

Cheers Skoober. Gonna print that post and frame it.

In Chur Chur the bus lanes are established under local body law I.e. the CCC. They allow buses, taxis, motorcycles and cycles. The cycle lanes only allow cyclists.

I understand the rules are different up North, it depends on what legislation established the lanes.

[rastuscat]

Well thats your interpretation of a traffic regulation.:Police:

Correct. What's yours?

[scumdog]

You like giving them a surprise colonic irrigation ? ;)

Nah, he's just a blow-hard-rebel-without-a-clue...<_<:rolleyes:

[imdying]

Always be careful for those who intend to turn left across your path!I don't find them much trouble, they're easy to spot. The ones noobs should watch for are people turning right across your path (i.e. through the line of traffic). Some nice person lets them run across the front of them, and all they see is a gap and off they go. They are not looking for you coming up the left hand side.

[Bassmatt]

Cheers Skoober. Gonna print that post and frame it.

In Chur Chur the bus lanes are established under local body law I.e. the CCC. They allow buses, taxis, motorcycles and cycles. The cycle lanes only allow cyclists.

I understand the rules are different up North, it depends on what legislation established the lanes.

Ok to use the bus lanes in Mt Maunganui/Tauranga too.
Unless they have changed the rules and I am not aware. If so I guess I'll find out sooner or later.:shutup:

[Petah]

Thanks for the replys, Ill remember to keep my speed around 20kph and keep and eye (or 3) out for cars crossing my path.


I doubt your insurance would cover you either if you somehow had an accident inside a cycle lane. What's wrong with riding down the right side of cars when it's gridlocked, within the lane, providng there's space? That's legal.

The right side has like 6 crossing medians along it, and I would have to cross back across 2 lanes when I got the the intersection to go left.

[imdying]

Thanks for the replys, Ill remember to keep my speed around 20kph and keep and eye (or 3) out for cars crossing my path.Think like a giraffe... you can see over the top. But having said that, cars can't change direction (lol, generally) without turning their front wheels, so keep a wandering eye on those too.

[arcane12]

An interesting (handed down) story(involving cages only):

In a similar gridlocked scenario (one lane that splits to two at the intersection) a kind person in the queue left a gap so someone on the other side of the road could turn into a driveway. As they turned in they were hit by a car undertaking the stopped traffic and then told by the officer that attended that they were in the wrong for turning in front of straight through traffic (even though that car was illegally undertaking).

I guess it was a case of who was more wrong, but still I would have thought the undertaker (not the wrestler) was more wrong.

And yes, in Hamilton I have seen many car use the cycle lane to undertake a long line of stopped traffic (eg. Peachgrove road undertaking from the railway line to turn left into Ruakura road). In most cases the roads are actually marked to show you where it is legal (or I guess recommended?) to move across the cycle lane to turn left. And you do see officers turning a blind eye when people do it in heavy traffic (usually safely).

Of course what a police officer does is no reflection of what you should do, otherwise I would stop indicating, speed to get back to the office at the end of the day, and tailgate (Serious Crash Unit car for the irony of that).

The good thing of rusg 'hour' in Hamilton is ytou can usually leave 5-10 minutes early and get clear roads. Not always the case around Te Rapa in the afternoon, but the ring road upgrades might help with that.

[rastuscat]

It's not illegal to go up the left of a stationary line of cars, whether you are in a car, on a motorbike or bicycle.

Thats why a car turning through a line of stationary cars is at fault if they hit the car, cycle or bike coning up the left. Coz they are turning and the other is going straight.

Sorry, but its the law.

[Berries]

Hamilton has got cars now?

Fuck off.

[madandy]

It's not illegal to go up the left of a stationary line of cars, whether you are in a car, on a motorbike or bicycle.

Thats why a car turning through a line of stationary cars is at fault if they hit the car, cycle or bike coning up the left. Coz they are turning and the other is going straight.

Sorry, but its the law.


Therein lies a problem. EG: when filtering through stationary traffic, doing so to the right of a lane has been explained as exceptable but down the left side of a lane, illegal as passing on the left is not permitted.

So is it ok to lane split on both sides of the line or just down the very left of the left lane?

I tell ya what gives me the shits, is
Eople coming down the left hand 'special lane' when I'm turning 20+ metres of truck n trailer left at an intersection...one day some ones gonna drive/ride under my trailer! :shit:

[arcane12]

Just to clarify my understanding:

Passing moving traffic on the left is illegal.

Passing stationary traffic on the left is ok.

You can drive in a cycle lane (I am ignoring other special lanes for now) no more than 50m to complete a turn.

So you can pass a line of stopped cars on the left if it does not involve travelling more than 50m in a cycle lane?

Considering how many cycle lanes there are around these days it sounds difficult for a car but maybe not as much for a bike.

I guess the answer don't act like a dick and you should be fine.

[DEATH_INC.]

Ride up the car parks rather than the cycle lane. easy. :shutup:

[Ender EnZed]

Just use the footpath. No one walks anywhere these days anyway.

[cheshirecat]

Therein lies a problem. EG: when filtering through stationary traffic, doing so to the right of a lane has been explained as exceptable but down the left side of a lane, illegal as passing on the left is not permitted.

So is it ok to lane split on both sides of the line or just down the very left of the left lane?

I tell ya what gives me the shits, is
Eople coming down the left hand 'special lane' when I'm turning 20+ metres of truck n trailer left at an intersection...one day some ones gonna drive/ride under my trailer! :shit:
I've seen the remains of a biker, well a leg showing from under the rear wheels of an artic and his Ninja in kit form 100 meters back down the road. He overtook me a couple of mins before at a rate of knots. I was London despatch riding then and learnt a bit, well you had to if you wanted survive the "gone by lunchtime" feature of the job. As pointed out earlier the inside route is the riskiest of all but risk is greatly minimised if speed is kept down, like real down. I used to get caught out occasionally but it was really a kerb clearance thing with the underside of the bike and dirty great wheel breaking potholes which seemed to appear overnight. Never understood why anyone would want to cycle to work.

I still find the road rules here a bit odd and at best badly written, perhaps originally designed for Big Ears and Noddy in Toyland. Out of interest I learnt to pick out right turning vehicles sometimes 100 meters ahead regardless of whether it was giving out signals or not. Never did any analysing what the 'signals' were but I know it took until Tuesday am or Monday pm to get my eye in after the weekends break from the job. Sometimes a flick of a shadow under a vehicle gave the game away for potential trouble. Anyway the best way as always was to keep the speed down, ride with absolute precision and keep an open minded awareness - oh and never ever assume.

I still get a kick riding through dense traffic, its a real skill to get right, but have to reign in the old habits unfortunately - at least I'm still alive which can't be said for some of my ex DR mates.

[sleemanj]

It would have to be tested in court, but such lanes are available to other traffic under certain circumstances.

We get this from the law... http://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2004/0427/latest/DLM303043.html

---
Part 2.3, subclause 3
(3)However, a driver may drive wholly or partly in a lane that is unavailable to the driver under subclause (1) or clause 4.6(2) to (4) if—
(a)it is impracticable to proceed otherwise because of—
(i)the size of the driver's vehicle; or
(ii)the size of the load on the driver's vehicle; or
(iii)a road obstruction; and
(b)driving in that lane can be done safely and without impeding other traffic.
---

As you can see, if the traffic jam can be considered a "road obstruction" and it would be safe and not impede traffic to do so, you could potentially use this rule to back up a claim that it is legal for you to use the cycle lane in that situation.

[aimee]

+1

A bicycle lane (and a centre median strip) can only be used for up to 50 metres when turning e.g.. a side road or parking space.

So an interesting point is that in theory a long line of cars in the bicycle lane waiting to turn are all breaking the law. I believe it is ignored in the interest of traffic flow? I guess a lesser of two evils?


I rather think that cars aren't EVER supposed to be in bicycle lanes. They're for bicycles.

[rastuscat]

I rather think that cars aren't EVER supposed to be in bicycle lanes. They're for bicycles.

Dear God, where did you get THAT idea from?

[Akzle]

We get this from the law... http://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2004/0427/latest/DLM303043.html

thanks for that.

but it does give rise to an opportunity for me to be a pedant.
you get that from crown legislation, which has been given the defacto force of law, by the (mostly unknowing) consent of the subjects of the state.

legislation≠law

carry on.

[rastuscat]

thanks for that.

but it does give rise to an opportunity for me to be a pedant.
you get that from crown legislation, which has been given the defacto force of law, by the (mostly unknowing) consent of the subjects of the state.

legislation≠law

carry on.

Gosh. Pedant, pedant, Akzle is a pedant !!!!!!!!!!

Newsflash ends.

[Akzle]

Gosh. Pedant, pedant, Akzle is a pedant !!!!!!!!!!

Newsflash ends.

you need a hug, dontcha buddy?


((the devil is in the detail, rasty. take note and beware))

[scumdog]

Gosh. Pedant, pedant, Akzle is a pedant !!!!!!!!!!

Newsflash ends.

He likes messin' wif small children???:shit:

[crash99]

An interesting (handed down) story(involving cages only):

In a similar gridlocked scenario (one lane that splits to two at the intersection) a kind person in the queue left a gap so someone on the other side of the road could turn into a driveway. As they turned in they were hit by a car undertaking the stopped traffic and then told by the officer that attended that they were in the wrong for turning in front of straight through traffic (even though that car was illegally undertaking).

I guess it was a case of who was more wrong, but still I would have thought the undertaker (not the wrestler) was more wrong.

.

Nope.
Actual case (me): traffic stopped (heading up double lane into Pukerua Bay, Wellington). I was travelling up the inside of the left hand lane, towards a truck (stopped) just before an intersection leading off to my left. As I approached the truck (couldnt see right cos it was a bloody big truck) a car pulled across in front of said truck. I swerved, car braked, I brushed front of car and rode into intersection island. 1 written off 900 Hornet. My insurance company went along with the rode code which says there are only 3 instances where you may pass to the left of traffic:
1. When there is a formed lane
2. When directed to do so by a police orificer
3. When the trafic is stationary.
Point 3 applied. Ie, as has been said many, many times before - if the traffic is moving and you filter or whatever you want to call it to the left, to the right, you could be prosecuted. If you are travelling a lot faster than the traffic then it is more likely. Every day I filter at a speed relatively not too much faster than the traffic, and I pass many police cars, Highqway Patrol, whatever, and never get stopped.
Be sensible and you'll probably be ok. Act like a dumb ass and get treated like one. :bleh:

So, wrt the turning in front of stationary traffic - the person turning is definitely in teh wrong as the good orficer said - you turning, you give way.

[SMOKEU]

even on a motobike, i dislike cyclists with a passion.
fuck em and their lanes.

carry a 4 foot length of garden hose, in any vehicle. y'know.. for when they need it.
:spanking:

I'll happily stop cycling when you buy me a car or motorbike and pay for all the maintenance. Until then, I'm going to keep on cycling, otherwise I have to walk or catch a bus.

[willytheekid]

I watched a scooter rider get screamed at this morning on my way into work...and fair enough too!

Stupid bugger was tearing down the cycle lane (over took me an the rest of traffic as we crawled along @40ish)...pitty he didn't see the cyclist legally using the lane...it was damn close to being a meeting of handlebars! :shit::facepalm:
Cyclist caught up to him at the lights...and just friggin went him! :ouch:

Scooter guy even tried to get ME to stand up for em??:confused:...I just pointed to my HD camera and shook my head..."green light!!"...have fun with that!:finger:

....stay out of cycle lanes!


Ride safe over the holiday period KBers :love:....and "MERRY XMAS" to you all :msn-wink: (swear to god!!...If I get another lump of coal this year...:angry:)

[Bassmatt]

I'll happily stop cycling when you buy me a car or motorbike and pay for all the maintenance. Until then, I'm going to keep on cycling, otherwise I have to walk or catch a bus.

Get a job, bro.

[SMOKEU]

Get a job, bro.

I don't have time with my studies.

[Oakie]

Truth also is, a cycle lane is a bloody dangerous place to ride a bike of any sort. Traffic turning through from the other direction, or turning left without looking, knock bike riders off all day, every day in this country. Our office alone sees at least 5 such crashes each week.

Well you probably heard of this one too which a work colleague witnessed on Saturday just passed. It involved :
A: A nice red motorcycle
B: Papanui Road, Chch
C: Said bike using Bus Lane in the afternoon
D: Car going the opposite direction, wanting to turn right and being allowed to buy traffic in the opposing 'normal' lane
E: A sickening crunching sound
F: Rider doing a couple of cartwheels while flying though the air then having a wee lie-down at the end of his flight.

Outcome unknown. My colleague didn't observe the rider moving although plenty of pedestrians moved to help.

Just a point to those bikers in Chch who use the bus lanes as allowed by our enlightened city council. They are only bus lanes during the time the signs say they are. Usually 7am - 9am and perhaps 3pm - 6pm. Outside these times they are normal road and if a biker was to use them to pass another vehicle on the left, then this would be illegal.

[Akzle]

I'll happily stop cycling when you buy me a car or motorbike and pay for all the maintenance. Until then, I'm going to keep on cycling, otherwise I have to walk or catch a bus.

muahahaha. an african on a bike. what better fodder.you're lucky you're beond the reach of my bullbars. for now.

[FJRider]

Just a point to those bikers in Chch who use the bus lanes as allowed by our enlightened city council. They are only bus lanes during the time the signs say they are. Usually 7am - 9am and perhaps 3pm - 6pm. Outside these times they are normal road and if a biker was to use them to pass another vehicle on the left, then this would be illegal.

If the bus Lane is being used ... when it is lawfully allowed to be used ... then it is just a normal lane. As such ... passing another vehicle on the left IS allowed, when and where lanes are marked. Bus lanes are well marked.

[Subike]

If the bus Lane is being used ... when it is lawfully allowed to be used ... then it is just a normal lane. As such ... passing another vehicle on the left IS allowed, when and where lanes are marked. Bus lanes are well marked.

Sorry FJ,
Some of the CHCH bus lanes, when outside the hours, are parking spaces. Riccarton road for example. During rush hours the bus lanes operate for the transit of buses. Outside of those hours those lanes are marked car parks. So if you have a good motorcross/mountain bike then use the lanes. if you are clever. Use at you own risk any bus lane. Mind you riding a bike is a "use at your own risk " at anytime anywhere. Filtering or undertaking on bus lanes is not for those who have poor situational awareness. The risks involved are not governed by any laws, but governed by the impatience and carelessness of others. It may be legal in some places, but remember the law is there to be interpreted by each road user, and not all interpretations come inside the intent of the law. The challenge, is to win the dodgems ride in cities %100 of the time.

[Oakie]

If the bus Lane is being used ... when it is lawfully allowed to be used ... then it is just a normal lane. As such ... passing another vehicle on the left IS allowed, when and where lanes are marked. Bus lanes are well marked.

What Subike said. Most of those I can think of in Chch aren't actually lanes in their own right but are areas to the left of the actual single lane in the road. The only exception I can think of is the one that is on Colombo St at the Hereford St intersection.

[rok-the-boat]

I sometimes sneak up on the left of cars in the empty bicycle lane. I asked a bike cop a month or so ago and he said he could not see a problem with moving up to the lights if the traffic were stationary. He did add that he thought it would be dangerous if the traffic were moving. And, he added he did not know if it were legal or not. So, I asked another cop a couple of weeks back who I saw buying a snack in a dairy and got basically a similar answer.

But today - I moved up a few car lengths in a bicycle lane and then some geezer in a black Snazzy Holden type car followed me from then on about 1cm from my bumper for a km or so. At the next lights he lowered his window and started hurling abuse, that I shouldn't come up on him on the left. I didn't respond, since a car is bigger than a bike, and I might meet him again along that same road.

[rastuscat]

I do it every day, albeit at a slow speed , about as fast as a push bike. I have passed police cars that have been in the traffic, and have not had them bother me.

This is one of the things that causes the most nausea out there each day.

Just because a particular cop didn't chase you up doesn't mean it's legal. I mean, if that cop was a detective heading to interview a sexual abuse victim, do you really think he would have chased you for riding in a cycle lane? What if there's a sale at the donut shop that he wants to get to? What if he just can't be arsed?

The highway patrol used to have a motto of see something, do something. Trouble is, there are so many infringements happening every minute of every day, you just can't do something about everything you ever see.

Just out of interest, a cycle lane is actually a special vehicle lane. The offence is unauthorised use of a special vehicle lane.

My boss has one wall papered in complaints from cyclists bitching about people using motorcycles and mopeds in cycle lanes. The wall opposite is covered in letters from motorists bitching about cyclists.

[willytheekid]

...My boss has one wall papered in complaints from cyclists bitching about people using motorcycles and mopeds in cycle lanes. The wall opposite is covered in letters from motorists bitching about cyclists.

Morning Ras :D

...And yet your boss only seems interested in "targeting" motorcyclists...while cyclists are dying by the dozen on NZ roads!, and mostly due to there own poor actions and illegal road use!...so why is that? (to hard to write a ticket for?...to hard to catch??...to big of a job??...or is just not profitable enough to enforce ACTUAL ROAD SAFETY??):oi-grr:

...and why is it not LAW that cyclists must have the same vehical standards as ALL OTHER ROAD USERS...you know...such usefull things as...brake lights!, indicators!! and for fucks sake...MIRRORS!!!...It must be hard to stay alive when you travel around half blind!(And ALL of the above are available for cyclists...and cheap too!)

(I honestly cant EVER recall seing a popo pull a cyclist over for running lights and dangerous riding etc....ever!!)

Oh, and ps - •You must not drive in a cycle lane except for a maximum of 50 metres when entering or leaving side roads, driveways or parking spaces*

* I was turning into that road/driveway...50 meters ahead officer...Honest!:msn-wink: lol

[SMOKEU]

Morning Ras :D

...And yet your boss only seems interested in "targeting" motorcyclists...while cyclists are dying by the dozen on NZ roads!, and mostly due to there own poor actions and illegal road use!...so why is that? (to hard to write a ticket for?...to hard to catch??...to big of a job??...or is just not profitable enough to enforce ACTUAL ROAD SAFETY??):oi-grr:

...and why is it not LAW that cyclists must have the same vehical standards as ALL OTHER ROAD USERS...you know...such usefull things as...brake lights!, indicators!! and for fucks sake...MIRRORS!!!...It must be hard to stay alive when you travel around half blind!(And ALL of the above are available for cyclists...and cheap too!)

(I honestly cant EVER recall seing a popo pull a cyclist over for running lights and dangerous riding etc....ever!!)

Oh, and ps - •You must not drive in a cycle lane except for a maximum of 50 metres when entering or leaving side roads, driveways or parking spaces.

:msn-wink:

It's not cyclists that are the problem, it's cagers. Since drivers can't stop crashing into one another, and since they often fail to see something like a big truck or a train and drive right in front of it, that further proves my point. Once drivers stop slaughtering each other by the hundreds each year in NZ, then we can start looking at cyclists.

[nerrrd]

But today - I moved up a few car lengths in a bicycle lane and then some geezer in a black Snazzy Holden type car followed me from then on about 1cm from my bumper for a km or so. At the next lights he lowered his window and started hurling abuse, that I shouldn't come up on him on the left. I didn't respond, since a car is bigger than a bike, and I might meet him again along that same road.

Putting aside the issue of who's slaughtering whom on the roads, I think the real issue here is some guys can't handle being passed on the road, whether it's done legally or not.

I got passed by a guy on a scooter in the bus lane this morning...still feeling the burn.

[R650R]

This is one of the things that causes the most nausea out there each day.

Just because a particular cop didn't chase you up doesn't mean it's legal. I mean, if that cop was a detective heading to interview a sexual abuse victim, do you really think he would have chased you for riding in a cycle lane? What if there's a sale at the donut shop that he wants to get to? What if he just can't be arsed?

The highway patrol used to have a motto of see something, do something. Trouble is, there are so many infringements happening every minute of every day, you just can't do something about everything you ever see.

Just out of interest, a cycle lane is actually a special vehicle lane. The offence is unauthorised use of a special vehicle lane.

My boss has one wall papered in complaints from cyclists bitching about people using motorcycles and mopeds in cycle lanes. The wall opposite is covered in letters from motorists bitching about cyclists.

I often wonder how much police time is tied up/wasted by vexatious complaints by people against certain vehicle types, be interesting to see some stats about driving complaints with regards to actual outcomes vs original stories...
Worked with a guy once that kept on making the same illegal entry into his logbook after believing he was 'legal' as the cviu didn't ping him the last time... Same guy 100% believed our trailers on 17.5inch rims were impossible to roll over, what with being a mere 2cm lower than most other b-trains :facepalm:
It is a strange peculiarity of human behaviour how we pigeon hole someone based on what they are driving/riding at a particular moment in time...

[rastuscat]

Morning Ras :D

...And yet your boss only seems interested in "targeting" motorcyclists...while cyclists are dying by the dozen on NZ roads!, and mostly due to there own poor actions and illegal road use!...so why is that? (to hard to write a ticket for?...to hard to catch??...to big of a job??...or is just not profitable enough to enforce ACTUAL ROAD SAFETY??):oi-grr:

...and why is it not LAW that cyclists must have the same vehical standards as ALL OTHER ROAD USERS...you know...such usefull things as...brake lights!, indicators!! and for fucks sake...MIRRORS!!!...It must be hard to stay alive when you travel around half blind!(And ALL of the above are available for cyclists...and cheap too!)

(I honestly cant EVER recall seing a popo pull a cyclist over for running lights and dangerous riding etc....ever!!)

Oh, and ps - •You must not drive in a cycle lane except for a maximum of 50 metres when entering or leaving side roads, driveways or parking spaces*

* I was turning into that road/driveway...50 meters ahead officer...Honest!:msn-wink: lol

Hey Wheelie

You'd be surprised how many things happen that you didn't see.

Funny, just a note about enforcing cycle helmets. One of our guys decided to take on a personal crusade to ticket every cyclist he saw not wearing a cycle helmet. Now, if I stop someone I want to write a ticket for, I need their name and address etc. This cop has given up the crusade, as he had to arrest so many cyclists for not giving their name and address etc. Too bloody time consuming to be worth the effort.

Please don't think motorcyclists get targetted any worse than anyone else. In fact, I'd suggest that the number of motorcyclists getting tickets is disproportionately small compared to the number of motorcyclists breaking the rules. Just putting it out there.

[Scuba_Steve]

Hey Wheelie

You'd be surprised how many things happen that you didn't see.

Funny, just a note about enforcing cycle helmets. One of our guys decided to take on a personal crusade to ticket every cyclist he saw not wearing a cycle helmet. Now, if I stop someone I want to write a ticket for, I need their name and address etc. This cop has given up the crusade, as he had to arrest so many cyclists for not giving their name and address etc. Too bloody time consuming to be worth the effort.


So what you're saying is for justice to be done all bikers need to just run ;)



Please don't think motorcyclists get targetted any worse than anyone else. In fact, I'd suggest that the number of motorcyclists getting tickets is disproportionately small compared to the number of motorcyclists breaking the rules. Just putting it out there.

Theres probably not a single person in NZ that doesn't break the law on a daily basis

[willytheekid]

Hey Wheelie

You'd be surprised how many things happen that you didn't see.

Funny, just a note about enforcing cycle helmets. One of our guys decided to take on a personal crusade to ticket every cyclist he saw not wearing a cycle helmet. Now, if I stop someone I want to write a ticket for, I need their name and address etc. This cop has given up the crusade, as he had to arrest so many cyclists for not giving their name and address etc. Too bloody time consuming to be worth the effort.

Please don't think motorcyclists get targeted any worse than anyone else. In fact, I'd suggest that the number of motorcyclists getting tickets is disproportionately small compared to the number of motorcyclists breaking the rules. Just putting it out there.

Hay Ras :wavey:

As I said mate....I have NEVER! seen a cyclist stopped for a traffic infringement....EVER!!

And yet...every morning & afternoon on my daily trip into work, I witness at least one or two cyclists at the very least!, running lights, or veering out into traffic and generally placing themselves in harms way (you just have to watch the news to see they are getting bowled day after day and dying on NZ roads for silly mistakes etc)
And now you tell me that the perpetrators are so numerous!, AND have such a poor attitude towards police enforcing road safety...that they even refuse to give there NAME when caught risking there own lives!:crazy:

Sounds like you really do have a group of road users that have been left unchecked for a bit to long huh....shame its "to bloody time consuming to be worth the effort" reining them in to ensure road safety for all huh :facepalm: (Is you boss relying on Darwinism to fix the issue?)

Going by th above...if we all just started refusing to give our details...would you all just give up on traffic enforcement??:confused:

(If so...I guess I can just throw my wallet & license away, and just start popping those wheelie's right in front of you from now on huh :killingme)

As always Rastuscat, stay safe and keep up the great work....but please tell your boss to start reading that other side of his room...and at the very least spread the love aye (And yes...I'm aware of tickets per actual offense for us motorcyclist's...but hay!,Ive followed you through traffic remember, hence Ive witnessed even YOU! "getting away with it"* mate :nya:)

*Having a bit of controlled, safe, Fun! while riding....yet errring on the legal side of things...Mr filters through traffic like a greased..

[T.W.R]

I have NEVER! seen a cyclist stopped for a traffic infringement


Ha the old man had the honour of ticketing Tino Tabak for speeding down Ferry Rd one night in the late 60s :yes: Tino was heading home from a training ride & triggered the radar @ 35mph :yes: 1st time a cyclist had been done for speeding in ChCh and a national champ and international rep as well :2thumbsup

[Tink]

I can safely unsafely say, I am a motorcyclist that used to ride a un-motorized version of two wheels, and even today I find the arrogance of cyclists amazing... I was scared to ride my bi cycle on narrow roads, I know that the edge of the road is full of stones & glass, (if you paid road user taxes maybe that could be cleaned up, yes I nagged the powers that be to clean it up) I felt great on the bigger well spaced roads... If you are riding a bi cycle then ride it with courtesy to other road users, as I will have no hesitation in passing quite legally within the two white lines, I will not give way to arrogance... and I will beep the bike horn or car... and yes it has annoyed me on the bike and in the car. And now I no longer ride a bi cycle I think I can safely say all you road users are safe.:niceone:

As to the very 1st comment... I would do the cycle lane!

[Akzle]

I often wonder how much police time is tied up/wasted by vexatious complaints by people against certain vehicle types, be interesting to see some stats about driving complaints with regards to actual outcomes vs original stories...
Worked with a guy once that kept on making the same illegal entry into his logbook after believing he was 'legal' as the cviu didn't ping him the last time... Same guy 100% believed our trailers on 17.5inch rims were impossible to roll over, what with being a mere 2cm lower than most other b-trains :facepalm:
It is a strange peculiarity of human behaviour how we pigeon hole someone based on what they are driving/riding at a particular moment in time...

nono.
Theres 2 types of vehicles on the road, motorcycles, and obstacles.

[Akzle]

Going by th above...if we all just started refusing to give our details...would you all just give up on traffic enforcement??:confused:

(If so...I guess I can just throw my wallet & license away, and just start popping those wheelie's right in front of you from now on huh :killingme)



pretty much.
Capitus diminutio maxima.
Its not even YOUR name, nor 'license'.

[SMOKEU]

Hey Wheelie

You'd be surprised how many things happen that you didn't see.

Funny, just a note about enforcing cycle helmets. One of our guys decided to take on a personal crusade to ticket every cyclist he saw not wearing a cycle helmet. Now, if I stop someone I want to write a ticket for, I need their name and address etc. This cop has given up the crusade, as he had to arrest so many cyclists for not giving their name and address etc. Too bloody time consuming to be worth the effort.

Please don't think motorcyclists get targetted any worse than anyone else. In fact, I'd suggest that the number of motorcyclists getting tickets is disproportionately small compared to the number of motorcyclists breaking the rules. Just putting it out there.

If the cyclists refuse to give their name, address and DOB, then that's a whole different matter entirely and they should end up K9 and charged with failing to provide details, regardless if they're a cyclist or pedestrian or whatever. I don't personally have any problem with providing police with my details upon request.

[Akzle]

If the cyclists refuse to give their name, address and DOB, then that's a whole different matter entirely and they should end up K9 and charged with failing to provide details, regardless if they're a cyclist or pedestrian or whatever. I don't personally have any problem with providing police with my details upon request.

yeah, but to be fair, you are an ignorant motherfucker... And a cyclist at that.

[SMOKEU]

yeah, but to be fair, you are an ignorant motherfucker... And a cyclist at that.

By being a dick to the cops means that they're just going to create more trouble for you. Why not give them your details, and be on your merry way a few minutes later, rather than creating trouble just for the sake of it and having a court appearance over something entirely preventable?

I generally find that if I'm nice and polite to police that they return the favour. They have a shit job to do most of the time dealing with fuckwits all day, so a little courtesy goes a long way.

And I'm a cyclist because it's either that or walking, or taking a bus (which I can't afford). I don't really have a choice in the matter.

[Jeff Sichoe]

But using the cyclists as a test case, they banded together (unknowingly it would seem) and conspired to make the Police's job harder (by being difficult when it came to handing over I.D Cards / Personal Information) and the end result was that now the Police 'cant be bothered' following up that particular law.

So the moral of the story is to be a difficult cunt, tell your mates to be the same, and at the end of the day the Police will give up because that's what they seem to do?

[Akzle]

By being a dick to the cops means that they're just going to create more trouble for you. Why not give them your details, and be on your merry way a few minutes later, rather than creating trouble just for the sake of it and having a court appearance over something entirely preventable?

I generally find that if I'm nice and polite to police that they return the favour. They have a shit job to do most of the time dealing with fuckwits all day, so a little courtesy goes a long way.

And I'm a cyclist because it's either that or walking, or taking a bus (which I can't afford). I don't really have a choice in the matter.

the other guy has it.
i don't accept the jurisdiction of the cops, so i don't feel the civic duty to make their life easy. yes, there are cunts, but that speaks more to their own cuntery than mine, seeing as i live without doing harm, if they feel the need to waste their (and my) time and resources with no positive outcome for anyone......
better work stories!

[SMOKEU]

the other guy has it.
i don't accept the jurisdiction of the cops, so i don't feel the civic duty to make their life easy. yes, there are cunts, but that speaks more to their own cuntery than mine, seeing as i live without doing harm, if they feel the need to waste their (and my) time and resources with no positive outcome for anyone......
better work stories!

If you don't accept the jurisdiction of the NZ Police, then who would you call if some cunt rips your house off or nicks off with your ride, or rapes your ho?

[rok-the-boat]

If you don't accept the jurisdiction of the NZ Police, then who would you call if some cunt rips your house off or nicks off with your ride, or rapes your ho?

Someone robbed my neighbour's house a couple of years back. they called the cops but did they come? Nope. Two days later some cop representative appeared - told them to file a claim. Were they interested in taking fingerprints or asking lots of questions? Nope. Just file a claim. Freaking useless. The cops are just happy to sit in the cars, catching old grannies doing 31 in the 30 limit to help raise money and to boost their crime stats up.

[SMOKEU]

Someone robbed my neighbour's house a couple of years back. they called the cops but did they come? Nope. Two days later some cop representative appeared - told them to file a claim. Were they interested in taking fingerprints or asking lots of questions? Nope. Just file a claim. Freaking useless. The cops are just happy to sit in the cars, catching old grannies doing 31 in the 30 limit to help raise money and to boost their crime stats up.

Yup, and if you encounter an intruder in your house and hold them at gunpoint until the police arrive, then you're the criminal and the burglar is the victim!

[Akzle]

If you don't accept the jurisdiction of the NZ Police, then who would you call if some cunt rips your house off or nicks off with your ride, or rapes your ho?

i'm the only ho raper around here.
we've done this before, DO NO HARM. as soon as you're doing harm, you're smack bang under the jurisdiction of my 12ga, or the police, but i'm probably going to get there quicker.

similar stories to the above. police have never done anything for my benefit (nor anyone i know)
they're a fucking waste of your money.

[Mushu]

.....I generally find that if I'm nice and polite to police that they return the favour. They have a shit job to do most of the time dealing with fuckwits all day, so a little courtesy goes a long way......

I will admit that I am polite to the cops (the only time I ever address anyone as sir) but that is specifically to keep them from pushing me around to prove their authority.

But the shit job argument is no defense, there are far more people doing shit jobs than just the police. Try being an apprentice anything, or a plumber who literally works in shit, these people can't half ass their jobs cos they're shit, why should the cops be able to? And how many more jobs are there out there that allow you to put someone who gives you trouble in handcuffs.

Cops are very well paid as I understand. The police are trained (even during training they a very well paid) and can always leave and get another job.

[Hubris]

I'll bump this old tread, as I've just received an infraction for lane splitting on the left side of cars (ie the designated bicycle lane). As others have said, it makes sense from a traffic flow standpoint, it can be done safely without impacting cyclists, however it is a "Lane offence infringement" if they're enforcing things:(

[sleemanj]

I'll bump this old tread, as I've just received an infraction for lane splitting on the left side of cars (ie the designated bicycle lane). As others have said, it makes sense from a traffic flow standpoint, it can be done safely without impacting cyclists, however it is a "Lane offence infringement" if they're enforcing things:(

Jiminey, thread dredge enough to even wake me up from a zombie slumber.

If you want to try fighting it, back on page 3 I posted a snip from the law, you could try (rather in vain I suspect, but maybe worth a shot) to argue the normal lane was obstructed and your use of the lane was done in a safe manner, and then it wouldn't be an offence, or at least it would be a defence to the offence.

That's only gonna have any chance of success if the traffic was actually stopped and therefore blocking the lane.

[rastuscat]

Jiminey, thread dredge enough to even wake me up from a zombie slumber.

If you want to try fighting it, back on page 3 I posted a snip from the law, you could try (rather in vain I suspect, but maybe worth a shot) to argue the normal lane was obstructed and your use of the lane was done in a safe manner, and then it wouldn't be an offence, or at least it would be a defence to the offence.

That's only gonna have any chance of success if the traffic was actually stopped and therefore blocking the lane.

You've identified some wind to piss into.

[babysteps]

I was at a public event that you attended Rastus Cat. You were in uniform and the question of bike lanes was raised directly to you. Your reply was that it was acceptable as long as it was within 50mtrs of an intersection or traffic light.

Could you please clarify that.

[Akzle]

You've identified some wind to piss into.

you are just on top form recently there rastarse. new hooker or at the shop something?

[Berries]

I was at a public event that you attended Rastus Cat. You were in uniform and the question of bike lanes was raised directly to you. Your reply was that it was acceptable as long as it was within 50mtrs of an intersection or traffic light.

Could you please clarify that.
Rather than rely on an ex cop for legal information (no offence) why not read the Road User Rule and get to grips with what it says.

Try Section 2.3(4) for the 50m reference - http://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2004/0427/latest/DLM303043.html

[FJRider]

I'll bump this old tread, as I've just received an infraction for lane splitting on the left side of cars (ie the designated bicycle lane). As others have said, it makes sense from a traffic flow standpoint, it can be done safely without impacting cyclists, however it is a "Lane offence infringement" if they're enforcing things:(

Forget about whinging on here about technicalities of the law. Pay the fucking fine and shut the fuck up ... or join the big boys world in court.

[Akzle]

Forget about whinging on here about technicalities of the law. Pay the fucking fine and shut the fuck up ... or join the big boys world in court.

now that's a rather defeatist attitude...

[Voltaire]

now that's a rather defeatist attitude...

Its take the day off to be the guy who takes a knife to a gunfight or pay what....$150 and move on.....

Been there done that....its a waste of time.

I'm still bitter about the $60 for parking in a 'clearway' for a kabab, Neilson St Kababs are still boycotted.

[FJRider]

now that's a rather defeatist attitude...

You think he "might" lose in court .. ?? Personally ... I don't think he has an argument that will stand up in court.

He could however ... TAKE the issue to court and prove me wrong.

But the whinger that he is ... knows he'll lose.

And then ... get an even bigger fine.

[Hubris]

FJRider, do you have some history on which basis you're calling me a whinger (as the person who bumped this thread) or do you simply have a big mouth as overcompensation for something else being withered and non-functional?

[rastuscat]

I was at a public event that you attended Rastus Cat. You were in uniform and the question of bike lanes was raised directly to you. Your reply was that it was acceptable as long as it was within 50mtrs of an intersection or traffic light.

Could you please clarify that.

Almost correct.

Legally you can travel up to 50 metres in a cycle lane immediately prior to a left turn.

No, you can't hop in and out at 49 metre intervals.

[rastuscat]

you are just on top form recently there rastarse. new hooker or at the shop something?

Vote Rastuscat.

[FJRider]

Almost correct.

Legally you can travel up to 50 metres in a cycle lane immediately prior to a left turn.

No, you can't hop in and out at 49 metre intervals.

Assuming of course ... there are no cyclists in it at the time ... ;)

[rastuscat]

Assuming of course ... there are no cyclists in it at the time ... ;)

They get priority.

[FJRider]

FJRider, do you have some history on which basis you're calling me a whinger (as the person who bumped this thread) or do you simply have a big mouth as overcompensation for something else being withered and non-functional?

You started the history ...

After THIS post ... tell us again how you were lane splitting.


I'll bump this old tread, as I've just received an infraction for lane splitting on the left side of cars (ie the designated bicycle lane). As others have said, it makes sense from a traffic flow standpoint, it can be done safely without impacting cyclists, however it is a "Lane offence infringement" if they're enforcing things:(

But it wasn't "lane splitting" ... it was illegal overtaking. And you "bumped" an extinct thread to whinge. (is this the start of a trend for you) Too lazy to start a new one .. ???

Whatever way you try to justify it ... the overtake was still illegal.

Good luck in court ... :laugh:

[FJRider]

They get priority.

There will be a few that don't get that bit about cycle lanes. Dried blood is hard to get off the paintwork anyway ...

[Akzle]

Vote Rastuscat.

:rofl:
well now i wouldn't get carried away.. still vote ax.
you can be my minister of sensiblemotorcycling