"Improvements" making road more dangerous for motorcyclists?

[oneofsix]

Over the last few years a lot of work has been done on the Rimutaka hill road. Where it used to be ranked a medium risk road it is now a high risk road with a serious increase in motorcycle accidents being blamed as a main contributing factor. So much for their "improvements", guess the so called improvements were focused on truckies and not general road users.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/7987080/Rimutaka-road-one-of-NZs-riskiest

[F5 Dave]

Well I think the timeframe makes it hard to judge the changes in the road. Either way, the statistical numbers are so low (said without emotion of the subject matter) that it is drawing a long bow to make any sweeping conclusions. But I'm sure that people will do just that as they politicise the issue.

[duckonin]

Over the last few years a lot of work has been done on the Rimutaka hill road. Where it used to be ranked a medium risk road it is now a high risk road with a serious increase in motorcycle accidents being blamed as a main contributing factor. So much for their "improvements", guess the so called improvements were focused on truckies and not general road users.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/7987080/Rimutaka-road-one-of-NZs-riskiest

Improvements are good . Motorcyclists think so also, hence the reason the words 'Going for a BLAST over the Takas'. Blame the 'motorcyclist' not the road. Slow fucken down, would be a great start to decreasing motorcycle accidents.:yes:

[F5 Dave]

Or rather 'don't go on group rides' & 'learn to look where you want to go'. Perhaps even 'you want to overtake where??'

That said I've now become a law breaker since the continuous yellow lines got painted up there. Never-ever did I used to pass over yellow in last 25 years. But there are a few places for a bike which are safe & some people drive so slow that I'm held up in my Van full of dirtbikes. That move was silly & of course bikes will pass those people.

Expect speed cameras & a 70k limit soon.

[James Deuce]

The road was covered in crap, dug up, covered in gravel, turned to mud, got frozen a couple times, redirected randomly , had extremely steep temporary grades, had shit spilled on it, trucks and loaders would burst out of the scenery and this went on for a couple of years.

Of course the stats during that period make it look a bit riskier. I've had one accident in 25 years of riding/driving the hill and I came around a bend into a veritable lake of diesel and diesel-soaked clay at moderate speed and skated around a bit before toppling off. If I can see WTF is going on I generally don't fall off.

Bet the stats drop markedly on the South side over the next 2 years and increase on the North side. The Northern slopes have turned to crap. Bumpy, rippled, dirty, potholed and temporary repairs all add variability to potential available grip.

The biggest risk for me is some fuckwit riding much faster than me deciding to undertake me just as I'm committing to a bend. Happens three or four times a Summer and it scares the shit out of me every time. It's always an Aprilia rider too.

[F5 Dave]

I'm more scared of the ones coming the other way & you think "Impressive lean angle dude. But on the road when you're coming around an opposing corner, if you fall off you'll tangent into oncoming. You Dickhead". Hopefully into no one I like.

[Deano]

I can see TRTNR turning to custard.

In fact I'm surprised we haven't had a visit from the law at the Featherston pub yet this season. Maybe they're lulling us into a false sense of security.

[Paul in NZ]

I can see TRTNR turning to custard.
.

Don't turn to custard Deano - custard never solved anything....

Yeah - sorry but expect this as a warning of a muchly lowered speed limit. Remember the shock and awe campaign about the Paekak hill road and nex minute....

Pfft - I'm going to get a GN125 so I can still ride like hell over the hill... (arguably a step up from the Trophy)

[F5 Dave]

Don't turn to custard Deano - custard never solved anything....

What about an apple Danish? The pastry & apples needed a little something else:mellow:.


the chocolate helped but wasn't the full answer.


But then someone though -A-ha!

Not too much mind.

[MD]

Dear Santa,

Stop the trucks spilling fuel and crap
Target all vehicles that cut corners
Add some passing bays
Add a checked flag start finish line each side and it's sorted.

[Gremlin]

Pfft - I'm going to get a GN125 so I can still ride like hell over the hill... (arguably a step up from the Trophy)
Just walk...

[FJRider]

It's a simple principle ...

When they "improve" a road ... most vehicles using it will travel at a higher speed. Higher average speeds will have a higher risk of damage/injury should a vehicle crash.

And I think there is an increase in the number of idiots on the road. Perhaps they should build a better class of idiot.

[bsasuper]

I drove it in my car not so long ago, I came around a corner and a gsxr1000 wanted to try splitting my grill in half, lucky i was quick on the brakes, I'm sure his leathers brushed the paintwork, VERY poor riding and I bet he didnt tell his mates about it at the pub .

[FJRider]

.... I bet he didnt tell his mates about it at the pub .

I bet he did ... but his version may have differed from yours ...

It's always the cage pilot at fault don't you know ... ;)

[neels]

If you improve the road, people go faster, and crash harder.

The perfect example is the other road mentioned in the article, heading south from aucks, they've spent millions on that road so now people stop thinking and the accident rate gets worse.

Bring back dodgy off camber corners, tight bends and no margin for error, then people think about what they're doing.

[Kickaha]

with a serious increase in motorcycle accidents being blamed as a main contributing factor.
They should stop riding like fucktards then

[MrKiwi]

Improvements are good . Motorcyclists think so also, hence the reason the words 'Going for a BLAST over the Takas'. Blame the 'motorcyclist' not the road. Slow fucken down, would be a great start to decreasing motorcycle accidents.:yes:

Yep generally I agree. Although one corner gets more wind interference than before, is much trickier than it used to be descending in the wet.

[bsasuper]

It's a simple principle ...

When they "improve" a road ... most vehicles using it will travel at a higher speed. Higher average speeds will have a higher risk of damage/injury should a vehicle crash.

And I think there is an increase in the number of idiots on the road. Perhaps they should build a better class of idiot.

Exactly, I live near a major cross roads/intersection, 100k limit, stop signs to give way to main road.Lots of crashes due to people not stopping at the stop signs, so what to they do?, they lower the speed limit coming up to the cross roads to 70k, the outcome?, people who go through the stop signs without stopping now know the cars are going slower so go through without stopping even closer to approaching vehicles:brick:

[duckonin]

Yep generally I agree. Although one corner gets more wind interference than before, is much trickier than it used to be descending in the wet.

Yep point taken. But the wind does not blow every day, nor does it rain every day.:yes: As you know this then u should have no problems at all. Years back when it was a 'cunt ' of a road there were beggar all accidents. The reason was as I said it was a 'cunt ' of a road. Most that drove across the Rimutakas where shit scared and keep to the left . But then cars were not that powerful, plus there were not that many bikes that went over there. A full head of steam took some working at in a car. I think from memory it was 15mins up the Featherstone side to kiosk, 25 mins down to Kaitoke.

[oneofsix]

Yep generally I agree. Although one corner gets more wind interference than before, is much trickier than it used to be descending in the wet.

Would that be Muldoon's corner?

Don't totally agree with F5 on group rides, that rather depends on the group and now you yourself behave in the group. I do worry about comments along the lines of how fast you can get to the top of the hill, yeah I know some groups of car drivers do the comparisons but they aren't getting the finger pointed at them.

Do vaguely agree with comments regarding the period covered and the road works being on going at the time.

Am also worried regarding the speed limits.

Have heard complaints from commuters about the removal of passing lanes on hill and the massive yellows, and this from cagers not bikers. Funny thing is one of the complaints was that the NZTA is meant to be increasing passing lanes and yet they rather removed so many from the hill.

[FJRider]

Have heard complaints from commuters about the removal of passing lanes on hill and the massive yellows, and this from cagers not bikers. Funny thing is one of the complaints was that the NZTA is meant to be increasing passing lanes and yet they rather removed so many from the hill.

If the passing lanes are too short ... they create issues at the end of them with merging traffic. Especially in high traffic flows ...

There are wider roads where such lanes were ... often with room for vehicles to pull over/stop to let traffic past. But few want to be any slower getting anywhere ... than they already are.

"Improved" roads mean higher speeds ... so less need for passing lanes. If you are in a hurry ... leave earlier ... problem sorted.

[BMWST?]

its debateable wether they have improved the road.All they have done is take out some very very sharp and narrow turns up near the top.According to google maps its only about 1,5 k of the road

[Magnum Noel]

Improvements are good . Motorcyclists think so also, hence the reason the words 'Going for a BLAST over the Takas'. Blame the 'motorcyclist' not the road. Slow fucken down, would be a great start to decreasing motorcycle accidents.:yes:

Here F"n Here!!

[98tls]

Interesting,spent 7 years living in the shithole thats Wellington back in late 80s/early 90s and remember the road well as i spent plenty of time going up and over it on 2 of Ducatis/Cagivas finest fuckups.Be intersting to see the stats on the bike accidents ie model by model.I very much doubt its got anything to do with the road "improvements".

[Hitcher]

The modifications on the Wellington side of the summit I still have not got used to, particularly when heading homewards. It's now a real wind funnel, the corners don't really have enough camber, what camber there is on a couple is hard to pick, and the descent in a couple of places is a bit exaggerated. The funny camber is also worth keeping an eye on during the ascent as well. I expected better. And for the cost they should have taken the summit S bend out while they were at it.

At least this summer I've got a motorcycle with a decent low beam headlight and there's no roadworks slime to obscure the road markings at night.

[98tls]

The modifications on the Wellington side of the summit I still have not got used to, particularly when heading homewards. It's now a real wind funnel, the corners don't really have enough camber, what camber there is on a couple is hard to pick, and the descent in a couple of places is a bit exaggerated. The funny camber is also worth keeping an eye on during the ascent as well. I expected better. And for the cost they should have taken the summit S bend out while they were at it.

Motorcycling today seems so complicated H,i just do it as ive always done and just ride the bloody thing with no expectations bar a good time.

[bsasuper]

Motorcycling today seems so complicated H,i just do it as ive always done and just ride the bloody thing with no expectations bar a good time.

I've got an old asphalt ironer if you want to borrow it hitcher:facepalm:

[oneofsix]

If the passing lanes are too short ... they create issues at the end of them with merging traffic. Especially in high traffic flows ...

There are wider roads where such lanes were ... often with room for vehicles to pull over/stop to let traffic past. But few want to be any slower getting anywhere ... than they already are.

"Improved" roads mean higher speeds ... so less need for passing lanes. If you are in a hurry ... leave earlier ... problem sorted.

Improved roads don't increase the speed of heavily laden trucks by much and leaving early generally doesn't bet them neither but even short passing lanes assisted in getting past them. But of course you know better than someone that commutes it every week.

[oneofsix]

They should stop riding like fucktards then

interesting how you think they now ride more like fuckards than they did before the "improvements".

[caspernz]

The Rimutaka Hill road is no big deal in my book. As both a trucker and a biker, I have to laugh at the savage grade change in the new section...WTF?? Then I read somewhere that this will be evened out in years to come...

Removing a few of the shorter passing lanes is in some ways a safety driven measure, not that I entirely agree with that PC thinking as it makes it ever harder for a loaded truck to let other traffic sneak by in a safe way.

That said, some of the commuters that run back and forth over the hill are just as suicidal as some of the bikers...:facepalm:

Overall, most of the regulars on the hill seem to do okay :scooter::woohoo:

[Kickaha]

interesting how you think they now ride more like fuckards than they did before the "improvements".

Good point but motorcyclists seen to like to blaming everything but their own stupidity and poor roadcraft

Without knowing how many motorcyclists were using the road in both of those periods those numbers don't really mean much anyway and did the extra crashes happen in the area the "improvements" were made?

[Ocean1]

Good point but motorcyclists seen to like to blaming everything but their own stupidity and poor roadcraft

Without knowing how many motorcyclists were using the road in both of those periods those numbers don't really mean much anyway and did the extra crashes happen in the area the "improvements" were made?

I'd hazard a guess of yes in both cases. But as JD has already said the numbers are irrelevant, the hill road has been made of clay for the last couple of years.

[FJRider]

Improved roads don't increase the speed of heavily laden trucks by much and leaving early generally doesn't bet them neither but even short passing lanes assisted in getting past them. But of course you know better than someone that commutes it every week.

I commuted on it ... most days of the week ... on a bike (Benelli 650 twin) ... in the early eighties.

It seems to be "policy" on such winding hill roads to keep traffic flow consistent. Whatever that is on any day. It's thanks to idiots that such policy's are introduced.

The antics of some near the end of passing lanes ... leave little room for error. On the flat straight roads it's bad enough .. but on a winding hill road .... the accident rate potential is too high.

The Rimataka's is not the only hill to be treated as such. In the north or south island. Get over it .. get used to it. Such is policy ... and it wont change any day soon.

[MrKiwi]

Would that be Muldoon's corner?

Don't totally agree with F5 on group rides, that rather depends on the group and now you yourself behave in the group. I do worry about comments along the lines of how fast you can get to the top of the hill, yeah I know some groups of car drivers do the comparisons but they aren't getting the finger pointed at them.

Do vaguely agree with comments regarding the period covered and the road works being on going at the time.

Am also worried regarding the speed limits.

Have heard complaints from commuters about the removal of passing lanes on hill and the massive yellows, and this from cagers not bikers. Funny thing is one of the complaints was that the NZTA is meant to be increasing passing lanes and yet they rather removed so many from the hill.

Yes Muldoon's corner. Slopes away from the lean into the corner and then the wind bounces off the cut face of the hill. However, on a fine day the road is nicer to ride and I think the hill road, ridden properly, is generally a joy to ride - until, that is, you get stuck with cars in front of you and then a queue develops behind you. I sometimes pull over and let everyone go past rather than be caught in the middle of a slow moving tin train.

[oneofsix]

Yes Muldoon's corner. Slopes away from the lean into the corner and then the wind bounces off the cut face of the hill. However, on a fine day the road is nicer to ride and I think the hill road, ridden properly, is generally a joy to ride - until, that is, you get stuck with cars in front of you and then a queue develops behind you. I sometimes pull over and let everyone go past rather than be caught in the middle of a slow moving tin train.

Funny that the only corner that gave me real puker moments on a recent windy ride over that hill, that cutting seems to have created a bit of a tunnel effect. Agree its not nice feeling being the potential meat in a tin sandwich until there is a spot to pull off or occasionally they let you through.

[GrayWolf]

If you improve the road, people go faster, and crash harder.

The perfect example is the other road mentioned in the article, heading south from aucks, they've spent millions on that road so now people stop thinking and the accident rate gets worse.

Bring back dodgy off camber corners, tight bends and no margin for error, then people think about what they're doing.

Trouble is the 'improvements' do have just some of those things. They have 'improved' the ability to maintain a better velocity etc. However some of those corners and the story of the gixxer/car almost having a 'head on' is good example. The road is more open, easier to negotiate and that with a few 'off cambers' is a recipe for some nutter, car or bike to get it wrong.

[F5 Dave]

. . .
Don't totally agree with F5 on group rides, that rather depends on the group and now you yourself behave in the group. . . .

The problem with group rides is that it puts a bunch of males jockying for pecking order with riders they don't know. This sounds silly, we're all adults. Throttle goes both ways blah blah. But I've been on enough group rides where there have been crashes to make me avoid them. People go "I can keep up" or whatever it is that they are thinking.

Generally a few mates are ok as they aren't trying to prove anything (well after the first few rides).

I remember back a few years Trashie standing up in front of a large KB ride in the early days of KB & giving a lecture about how we don't want any crashes, ride at your own pace etc etc. Sage words. And totally wasted. 3 min latter Multistrada through the fence only part way up Takas, & after several waits on the ride (to sort the crashes out) I left, but not before I was passed by a GSXR400 who promptly didn't make the next corner.