Two motorcyclists dead - Wanaka region

[Stylo]

Damn ...

Two motorcyclists died after a crash with a car on the Lindis Pass in the South Island.

The two motorcycles struck the car about 2.15pm on Monday on the pass about 55km east of Wanaka.

Two people died while one person with serious injuries was being flown to Dunedin Hospital, police said.

It was not clear if anybody else was involved in the crash.
The pass, a stretch of State Highway 8 in North Otago which crosses the Southern Alps between Twizel and Wanaka, is expected to be closed until at least 7pm on Monday.

[Akzle]

highly unfortunate.
maybe rastus didn't write enough tickets this week.

[Brian d marge]

yes on stuff.co

had a look on google maps.

what can one say ,,,,,

sad all round

Stephen

[FJRider]

highly unfortunate.
maybe rastus didn't write enough tickets this week.

It's well outside his territory ...

With the Burt Munroe Challenge this past weekend ... all the roads are chocker with motorcycles ...

[Zamiam]

Never good :weep: is it just me or are there more bikers dying on our roads than ever before? If so is it that our roads are turning into patchwork quilts or just more riders therefore more accidents?

[FJRider]

The Lindis pass is the most direct route from Christchurch to Queenstown. A very busy road all year round. Most of the freight to Central comes over that pass. And hundreds of campervans per day too.

A dam good motorcycling road. The pass is about an hour and a half from my back door.

[Stylo]

The Lindis pass is the most direct route from Christchurch to Queenstown. A very busy road all year round. Most of the freight to Central comes over that pass. And hundreds of campervans per day too.

A dam good motorcycling road. The pass is about an hour and a half from my back door.

And about 5 hours from mine , an intersection collision from the flimsy feedback I've heard thus far.

[jellywrestler]

It's well outside his territory ...

With the Burt Munroe Challenge this past weekend ... all the roads are chocker with motorcycles ...

motorcycles are less than two meters long, that's a couple of hundred K's from invers, either there's nearly a million bikes out there or my maths says they ain't chocker with motorcyclists!

[FJRider]

motorcycles are less than two meters long, that's a couple of hundred K's from invers, either there's nearly a million bikes out there or my maths says they ain't chocker with motorcyclists!

I was in Cromwell today. Trust me (yeah right) ... the roads were chocker with motorcycles today. A virtual procession ...

[Brian d marge]

And about 5 hours from mine , an intersection collision from the flimsy feedback I've heard thus far.
without going into speculation blah blah
stuff gave the location as goobers? rd and yes it looks like a dricccceway intersection very near a corner ,,

must say beautiful scenery... looked lovely

must have been having a great ride !

Stephen

[JimO]

news said there may be a link to the Road Knights

[puddytat]

Another SMIDSY?

[FJRider]

without going into speculation blah blah
stuff gave the location as goobers? rd and yes it looks like a dricccceway intersection very near a corner ,,

must say beautiful scenery... looked lovely

must have been having a great ride !

Stephen

Goodger road actually. About a kilometer north or the Goodger rd intersection is a sharp right hand corner (going north) ... a 30 km corner that has already claimed a motorcyclists life. And bent a few bikes as well. One of three corners in the pass that need respect and care.

Location here ...

http://maps.google.co.nz/maps?q=Goodger+Road,+Lindis+Pass&hl=en&ll=-44.698891,169.49471&spn=0.016534,0.027595&sll=-45.23328,169.375837&sspn=0.065521,0.110378&oq=goodger+road&t=h&hnear=Goodger+Rd,+Lindis+Pass+9382&z=15

[FJRider]

Another SMIDSY?


Initial reports were the accident was near Goodger road. There i a dangerous corner just north of that that people take wide coming south. (a 30 km corner)

[newbould]

Never good :weep: is it just me or are there more bikers dying on our roads than ever before? If so is it that our roads are turning into patchwork quilts or just more riders therefore more accidents?

Part of the answer to your question here

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/road-deaths/toll.html

number of riders more difficlut to find.

[jim.cox]

Also in that area is a straight with a slight rise that breaks the line of sight. Tempting to overtake, but traveling north you cant see southbound vehicles :(

[FJRider]

must say beautiful scenery... looked lovely

must have been having a great ride !

Stephen

It is a great ride. Do it in summer. Snow and ice in the winter can ruin your day ...

[Berries]

Initial reports were the accident was near Goodger road. There i a dangerous corner just north of that that people take wide coming south. (a 30 km corner)
If you are thinking of Camp Creek it is a 45.

[FJRider]

If you are thinking of Camp Creek it is a 45.

You are correct. I was wrong there ... dam. (I hate that)

There used to be a cross on the armco on the northern end (river side) for years ... in memory of a biker that didn't make it around the corner.
The big red SLOW DOWN NOW signs still get missed being seen by some. Don't ask me how they can be ...

[Brian d marge]

news said there may be a link to the Road Knights

Why am I imagining things that really shouldn't be imagined

BTW is that the place , I read about a few years ago, the road dips and actually hides the oncoming car
You come steaming along , think the road is clear and whollop ,,,,,,

What ever happened , sad all round
Sad all round

In this case , if its not the car pulling out , and is the road , driving , this is a heads up I think

Stephen

[Berries]

Why am I imagining things that really shouldn't be imagined
That's what people do.


BTW is that the place , I read about a few years ago, the road dips and actually hides the oncoming car
You come steaming along , think the road is clear and whollop ,,,,,,
Not related at all but two people have now mentioned that bit of road. If someone can PM me the location I will pass it to the right man to get it looked at.

[BoristheBiter]

The big red SLOW DOWN NOW signs still get missed being seen by some. Don't ask me how they can be ...

I would say it's because 99% of the time they are complete bollocks.
There are so many signs telling you to slow down, numbered corners that can be safely taken at twice what they say that they just aren't taken seriously.

But then there are them that see it as a challenge.

[FJRider]

Why am I imagining things that really shouldn't be imagined

BTW is that the place , I read about a few years ago, the road dips and actually hides the oncoming car
You come steaming along , think the road is clear and whollop ,,,,,,

What ever happened , sad all round
Sad all round

In this case , if its not the car pulling out , and is the road , driving , this is a heads up I think

Stephen

With the high number of overseas tourists ... a few revert to driving on the right hand side of the road after a picnic stop.

[cave weta]

Gang related- Filthy Few

[FJRider]

I would say it's because 99% of the time they are complete bollocks.
There are so many signs telling you to slow down, numbered corners that can be safely taken at twice what they say that they just aren't taken seriously.

But then there are them that see it as a challenge.

If you get it right good. If the vehicle coming the other way gets it right ... even better. But no matter how good you are ... if that OTHER vehicle gets it wrong ... :(

[BoristheBiter]

If you get it right good. If the vehicle coming the other way gets it right ... even better. But no matter how good you are ... if that OTHER vehicle gets it wrong ... :(

Then signs are going to mean even less.

[FJRider]

They were part of a group. Harley Davidsons ... other members witnessed the accident ... but refused to comment.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/southland-times/news/8000522/Motorcyclists-die-in-Lindis-Pass-collision

[unstuck]

Gang related- Filthy Few

And? :wait:

[FJRider]

Then signs are going to mean even less.

Don't be that other driver then, and fuck up somebody elses day.

[BoristheBiter]

Don't be that other driver then, and fuck up somebody elses day.

Don't plan on it, but then who does?
but that wasn't my point.

[FJRider]

Don't plan on it, but then who does?
but that wasn't my point.

It was my point ...

I don't know many that do plan on it. But do find themselves that other driver.

You rely on other drivers to do it right to keep YOU safe ... and bitch if they don't.

[BoristheBiter]

It was my point ...

I don't know many that do plan on it. But do find themselves that other driver.

You rely on other drivers to do it right to keep YOU safe ... and bitch if they don't.

Then this discussion is pointless if we are talking about different things.

And i never rely on other road uses to keep me safe.

[skippa1]

Gang related- Filthy Few

and what?:blink:

[cave weta]

And? :wait:


and what?:blink:

And it may help to eliminate some riders that are not associated to them. One was from Tauranga

[sidecar bob]

And it may help to eliminate some riders that are not associated to them. One was from Tauranga

Nice chap too, senior member.

[Zamiam]

Part of the answer to your question here

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/road-deaths/toll.html

number of riders more difficlut to find.

Thanks - so up a bit but not as much as I thought. Maybe it's just that there has been a recent spate of them :-(

[Paul in NZ]

Ooooh crap.... Not good for anyone.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/8002471/Tourist-charged-over-Lindis-Pass-crash

I never like to see anyone hurt on the road but maybe this was definitely 'preventable'....

[Grumph]

Ooooh crap.... Not good for anyone.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/8002471/Tourist-charged-over-Lindis-Pass-crash

I never like to see anyone hurt on the road but maybe this was definitely 'preventable'....

It probably was "preventable" - But two points I'd make.

I was through the pass going South early Friday - good road but a lot of blind bits and some caution was definitely required.

late friday i was on SH1 going North and met a gang ride going South around Ranfurly....three abreast, outer man riding the center line in a show of strength....and intimidaton IMO....

Put these two points together and conect the dots. Preventable, yes, probable, maybe. I may be wrong of course....

[Bender]

From NZ Herald website:

Police have charged a 20-year-old woman visiting from China with two charges of careless driving causing death following yesterday's double fatal crash near Cromwell.

Grant John Roberts, 43, of Timaru, and Dennis Michael Pederson, 54, of Tauranga, died at the scene after a Nissan collided with the motorcyclists on Lindis Pass, 19km north of Tarras in Central Otago, about 2.16pm.

A 26-year-old Timaru woman, who was a pillion passenger, was airlifted to Dunedin Hospital by the Otago Regional Rescue helicopter and remains in a critical condition.

Alexandra Police Senior Sergeant Ian Kerrisk said a 20-year-old woman, a visiting Chinese national, has been charged with two charges of careless driving causing death relating to this crash. More charges are likely to follow.

[wysper]

Isn't english interesting.

Stuff has it like this 'died when their motorcycles collided with a southbound Nissan vehicle on State Highway 8'

So even though the driver of the car is being charged, the language of the story makes it appear to be the motorcyclists fault.

[BoristheBiter]

Isn't english interesting.

Stuff has it like this 'died when their motorcycles collided with a southbound Nissan vehicle on State Highway 8'

So even though the driver of the car is being charged, the language of the story makes it appear to be the motorcyclists fault.

It's from Stuff, what else do you expect? cutting edge journalism i think not.

[FJRider]

Isn't english interesting.

Stuff has it like this 'died when their motorcycles collided with a southbound Nissan vehicle on State Highway 8'

So even though the driver of the car is being charged, the language of the story makes it appear to be the motorcyclists fault.

The car driver being charged ... does not stop it from being a motorcycle accident.

[FJRider]

late friday i was on SH1 going North and met a gang ride going South around Ranfurly....three abreast, outer man riding the center line in a show of strength....and intimidaton IMO....



Ranfurly is nowhere near SH1 ...

[Pussy]

Nice chap too, senior member.

Yep! Deno was a good bloke.

[Stylo]

Ranfurly is nowhere near SH1 ...

What I find interesting and it annoys me a little, is that this thread was originally posted on the 'General Bike Ravings' thread by me , as it was correctly intended and , rightly so. Last evening around 6 pm . Two People were killed for crying out loud!

Within 15 minutes the thread was demoted down the ladder to this trivial platform at the bottom of the bucket along with 'Jokes and Humour' etc called the 'Rants and Raves' thread ,And here we are .

Like two people dead does'nt matter.

What's happenening to KB recently or, am I missing something ?

[Katman]

What I find interesting and it annoys me a little, is that this thread was originally posted on the 'General Bike Ravings' thread by me

What's happenening to KB recently or, am I missing something ?

Didn't you get the medal that's given to people who are first to report an accident?

[Genestho]

Didn't know Deno well, but the respect and genuine time out he took for me and mine meant a lot, seemed like a real good bloke.

A visiting asian lady took out an old friend of mine, my boss at the time near 20 years ago I was quite young.
He'd just picked up his new Triumph which was on the trailer, she came round the wrong side of the road killing both him and his dog, who was in the back and seriously injured a friend who was the passenger.

Seemed incredibly unfair then, as it does now.

I followed an asian for near 20 km's not long ago in her BMW somewhere from Whakatane to Tepuke, she was a psycho - drove into oncoming traffic and passed a car on a corner, then barrelled straight through a round about in Tepuke, stopping cars she should've been giving way to. I called it in.

Looking at the details and charges here, something should be in place to bloody test tourists for their understanding (or lack of) of our road rules!!!! I'll be asking my local MP about it!

RIP Deno and thoughts are with family and friends of all the riders involved.

[Stylo]

Didn't you get the medal that's given to people who are first to report an accident?

You've totally missed the point Katman ,

You're special , take care aye ?

[FJRider]

What I find interesting and it annoys me a little, is that this thread was originally posted on the 'General Bike Ravings' thread by me , as it was correctly intended and , rightly so. Last evening around 6 pm . Two People were killed for crying out loud!

Within 15 minutes the thread was demoted down the ladder to this trivial platform at the bottom of the bucket along with 'Jokes and Humour' etc called the 'Rants and Raves' thread ,And here we are .

Like two people dead does'nt matter.

What's happenening to KB recently or, am I missing something ?

What I find interesting ... is the member that a few posts ago ... said he didn't trust anybody to keep him safe on the roads. Did the guys involved in the accident trust other road users to keep them safe .. ??? I'm pretty sure they expected other vehicles to stay on their side of the road. Even if they themselves may have crossed the centerline ... if it suited. They all may have even been familiar with that road.
And I wonder if one rider would still be alive ... if they had at least a two second gap between motorcycles.
Site rules limit what you can say in such threads ... and some may see it as stupid ... or in poor taste to even start a thread on motorcyclist deaths.

Would any of the other riders in the group have learned anything ... that may prevent their deaths in the future .... and act on it .. ??
Or is it just a case of more (innocent) bikers are killed by a stupid (female) cage pilot ...

[jellywrestler]

Looking at the details and charges here, something should be in place to bloody test tourists for their understanding (or lack of) of our road rules!!!! I'll be asking my local MP about it!

At the very least access to that info on flights into our country. I went to Aussie a few years back and wasn't intending to drive, ended up in the hot seat and got a couple of whoas from my passenger over simple give way rules that were different than here then. If there'd been a brochure on the plane i certainly would've read it.
that would be a start...

[Katman]

You've totally missed the point Katman ,


I'm sorry, has this thread got special powers that can wind back time?

[FJRider]

You've totally missed the point Katman ,

You're special , take care aye ?

There was a point in your post ... ???

All the care in the world wont prevent idiots from doing their worst ... at the worst possible time.

Put yourself in either of those riders position ... and what would YOU have done differently to save YOUR own life .. ???

[Genestho]

At the very least access to that info on flights into our country. I went to Aussie a few years back and wasn't intending to drive, ended up in the hot seat and got a couple of whoas from my passenger over simple give way rules that were different than here then. If there'd been a brochure on the plane i certainly would've read it.
that would be a start...
Nice! :niceone: I totally agree, that would be a good place to start! It's incredible that we don't already! Seems so darn simple!

[Hitcher]

What I find interesting and it annoys me a little, is that this thread was originally posted on the 'General Bike Ravings' thread by me , as it was correctly intended and , rightly so. Last evening around 6 pm . Two People were killed for crying out loud!

Within 15 minutes the thread was demoted down the ladder to this trivial platform at the bottom of the bucket along with 'Jokes and Humour' etc called the 'Rants and Raves' thread ,And here we are .

Like two people dead does'nt matter.

What's happenening to KB recently or, am I missing something ?

"Biker Down" threads are moved to R&R by the Moderators. Why? Apart from the fact that they're usually about dead bikers, they contribute little to the biker community. At best they're speculative and non-constructive affairs that generally end in disagreement and tears before bedtime. In nearly all cases the facts of the accident are never revealled. Coroner's reports generally take some months to be made public. Most comments are generally along the lines of "RIP biker", "he died doing something he loved" or similar ways of boosting one's post count. Facebook seems to be the best place for kudos to be generated from "ZOMG Biker Down" threads. At least there posters can't "unlike" them and are generally ever-so-nice to each other.

[PrincessBandit]

At the very least access to that info on flights into our country. I went to Aussie a few years back and wasn't intending to drive, ended up in the hot seat and got a couple of whoas from my passenger over simple give way rules that were different than here then. If there'd been a brochure on the plane i certainly would've read it.
that would be a start...

Large reminders in rental cars would also be good. (I actually thought that was being done at one stage???) It's incredibly easy for tourists who normally drive on the other side to forget in a split second moment of concentration lapse. We'll be keeping our eyes peeled and ears open as per usual on our big trip in January since tourists and idiot road users will no doubt abound.

[FJRider]

Large reminders in rental cars would also be good.

New Zealand authorities paint little white arrows on the road to remind tourists which side they should be on ... and some still forget. And in "Pressure situations" .. they revert to their home rules on instinct. Happens quite frequently down this way ... with visitors going to/from Queenstown.

[Paul in NZ]

Large reminders in rental cars would also be good. (I actually thought that was being done at one stage???) It's incredibly easy for tourists who normally drive on the other side to forget in a split second moment of concentration lapse. We'll be keeping our eyes peeled and ears open as per usual on our big trip in January since tourists and idiot road users will no doubt abound.

Every proper rental car has a keep left sticker on the speedo and literature is available... Not sure about the renta dents.

That does not apply to the cheapie scored of trademe for a last trip around the south island before its passed onto some other foreign muggins to repeat.

[Edbear]

New Zealand authorities paint little white arrows on the road to remind tourists which side they should be on ... and some still forget. And in "Pressure situations" .. they revert to their home rules on instinct. Happens quite frequently down this way ... with visitors going to/from Queenstown.

That is the issue. People are conditioned to react a certain way and in an emergency will jerk the wheel to that side, or if concentration slips, either by distraction or fatigue or something else, they will drift back to "their" side of the road.

[Genestho]

That is the issue. People are conditioned to react a certain way and in an emergency will jerk the wheel to that side, or if concentration slips, either by distraction or fatigue or something else, they will drift back to "their" side of the road.
What about if they're driving with ignorance "careless driving causing death"? Jerking..the wheel isn't the issue.

I suppose we'll learn more as facts unfold.

FYI, I have sent my email to my local MP who is also Associate Transport Minister, I'm interested to see what's said, being that it will end up before courts I have mentioned this case but discussed the Tourism issue in general and a recent experience.

[Edbear]

What about if they're driving with ignorance "careless driving causing death"? Jerking..the wheel isn't the issue.

I suppose we'll learn more as facts unfold.

FYI, I have sent my email to my local MP who is also Associate Transport Minister, I'm interested to see what's said, being that it will end up before courts I have mentioned this case but discussed the Tourism issue in general and a recent experience.

True, as a previous poster said about following a certain lady in a BMW, however these types are usually residents of NZ rather than visitors.

We'll be interested to hear what response, if any, you get.

[Genestho]

True, as a previous poster said about following a certain lady in a BMW, however these types are usually residents of NZ rather than visitors.
Lol, That was me, you don't reckon you can hire BMW's? Good point though - who knows if she was a resident or not.

We'll be interested to hear what response, if any, you get.
Oh trust me, I will get a reply.. :)

[sidecar bob]

Oh trust me, I will get a reply.. :)

P.M.S.L. Im sure you will.

[RDJ]

Large reminders in rental cars would also be good. (I actually thought that was being done at one stage???) It's incredibly easy for tourists who normally drive on the other side to forget in a split second moment of concentration lapse. We'll be keeping our eyes peeled and ears open as per usual on our big trip in January since tourists and idiot road users will no doubt abound.

Whenever I ride in the US (the bike I store there has a pretty large / high screen as I do long touring rides incl rain) I stick a large fluoro orange arrow pointing to the right, just below my line of sight. Reminds me when I need reminding (highest-risk I'd forget is pulling out onto a 'country' / rural road with no dividers and no traffic...)

[Brian d marge]

With the high number of overseas tourists ... a few revert to driving on the right hand side of the road after a picnic stop.
Tis very easy to do
Ie been guilty a few time in France , riding along on the old triumph , only to realise Im on the wrong side of the road

yes, I think its about time the government starts to regulate people that come from countries that drive on the opposite side

they do here in Japan

Stephen

[NighthawkNZ]

I was in Cromwell today. Trust me (yeah right) ... the roads were chocker with motorcycles today. A virtual procession ...

Burt Monroe and the Magpie Madness ralll both on. As well as various other events...

[Berries]

Tis very easy to do
Ie been guilty a few time in France , riding along on the old triumph , only to realise Im on the wrong side of the road

yes, I think its about time the government starts to regulate people that come from countries that drive on the opposite side
How? You said you had done it yourself in France, so have I. You can't regulate instinct. You either ban people from driving who drive on the other side or accept the fact that in a country that relies so heavily on the tourist dollar that these things will happen. Perhaps the wrong thread for this discussion however.

[Daffyd]

That is the issue. People are conditioned to react a certain way and in an emergency will jerk the wheel to that side, or if concentration slips, either by distraction or fatigue or something else, they will drift back to "their" side of the road.

One reason I've been reluctant to ride/drive in the Philippines... I worry that my first instinct in a "situation" would be to swerve left into the oncoming traffic. 55 years of habit is very hard to break.

I will, however ride again. I will give myself more time to adjust to the local conditions first.

[blue rider]

:Oops:
How? You said you had done it yourself in France, so have I. You can't regulate instinct. You either ban people from driving who drive on the other side or accept the fact that in a country that relies so heavily on the tourist dollar that these things will happen. Perhaps the wrong thread for this discussion however.



Some time ago, i went to the AA and gave them my german driver license. I got a NZ lisences in return. No questions asked, no driver lessons taken, no nothing zilch nada etc.

I asked the Lady if she was joking, and her answer was " Germans in have much stronger testing and licensing rules then we have here in NZ, and the law states that you can just have your license replaced, so here you go stop bothering me".

Note: I have never driven a car in NZ (still haven't).
I went to do my basic handling skill test, did my L and was told I was now legal to ride on the road on a bike. WTF i ask, you are sure about that? and again i was told to just accept how stuff is done in NZ and enjoy my riding. :Punk:

I then took a riding course (i do like to stay alive), and the very first thing i did, after the little voice in my ear told me to turn right.........end up on the right side of the road. GO LEFT GO LEFT GO LEFT....lol

Phil, from riderskills, did ask: Why, Really Why, do you Germans do this all the time !.......Well I am german and we do drive on the other side, sorry :Oops:



No one should get a free license without any , any , testing of the road code, and some sort of practical driving test. Feel lucky, go do the test straight away, go on the incorrect side of the road....sorry sir or mam, please walk. But feel free to take some lessons and come back and try to pass your lisence again.

[swbarnett]

No one should get a free license without any , any , testing of the road code, and some sort of practical driving test.
When I got my Swiss driver's license I had to take a practical test. The tester quizzed me about the rules at the same time. It was pretty interesting considering that I spoke (and still do) almost no German.

The funny thing is, however, before I left NZ I went to the AA and got myself an international license. I was allowed to drive for 12 months on this with no testing whatsoever.

[blue rider]

.....stuff about switzerland and not speaking german....however

The funny thing is, however, before I left NZ I went to the AA and got myself an international license. I was allowed to drive for 12 months on this with no testing whatsoever.

thats the kiwi way, she'll be right mate.....etc etc, and if she's not right, oopps a daisy or two.

[Gremlin]

When I did the USA trip, I feared going on the wrong side of the road so much that I was walking on the wrong side of the footpath, walkways and deliberately walked around the city a bit to try and get used to being on the wrong side.

I had no issues with the side of road, actually finding it easy as you followed everyone else. The hardest was actually car parks, parking areas at motels etc where it was quieter and you slipped into auto mode more easily.

[FJRider]

Burt Monroe and the Magpie Madness ralll both on. As well as various other events...

I doubt if many from the Magpie (that finished Sunday) were heading north from Cromwell on Monday ...

[Brian d marge]

How? You said you had done it yourself in France, so have I. You can't regulate instinct. You either ban people from driving who drive on the other side or accept the fact that in a country that relies so heavily on the tourist dollar that these things will happen. Perhaps the wrong thread for this discussion however.

banned or restricted , ie have to have a native driver with them , or strict training , or NAILING them UP ...NAIL them up I say !!!

My little oopsie , 750 bonnie , long french road , night ,no one else , just trundling along humming a song , when I realised those "two moons were on my side of the road ,

missed by mm

so easily done

One assumes of course this was the reason , it could also be that our chums crossed the centre line . but speculation is just that

Stephen

[NighthawkNZ]

I doubt if many from the Magpie (that finished Sunday) were heading north from Cromwell on Monday ...

Never said they were from the Magpie, just commenting on how many bikers were on the road over the whole weekend... (including monday)

Heck I know of 10 bikers that were doing the SR Escapade in that region and on that day... and the Lindis was part of the route.

[Ocean1]

just commenting on how many bikers were on the road over the whole weekend...

I was one of them. Went north through the Lindis well before the incident in question, though.

I did have a related incident. Somewhere between Twizel and Fairlie there's a big sweeping lefthander at the top of a rise, there's a good wide shoulder on the left, I suspect it's supposed to be a slow vehicle lane but it's not really that wide, and I don't think it's marked as such.

Anyway, I crested the hill more or less smack in the middle of that "slow" lane, just in time to have a grey sedan appear, overtaking a line of cars coming the other way... in my lane. Couldn't believe it, looked at the lane markings again... sure enough, he'd just crested the top of a hill on a blind corner, on the wrong side of the road.

Thinking back, there wern't any yellow lines, perhaps the turn wans't that tight, but If I'd been in the correct lane I doubt I'd have tightened up enough to get under him, I'd be gone for all money. Luckily the 6 guys behind me had all also moved left into the inside lane.

[FJRider]

I was one of them. Went north through the Lindis well before the incident in question, though.



I'm glad the thread title isn't three motorcyclists dead then ... a good thing it wasn't a blue Nissan then. (maybe her brother though :pinch:)

[Paul in NZ]

This is getting serious...

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/8011099/Motorcyclists-injured-in-SH5-crash

Single bike accidents are bad enough

[Swoop]

With the "driving on the left" issue...

I noticed in Thailand that even though driving on the left hand side of the road, like we do here, the Thai drivers will use the lane furthest to the right on a multi-lane expressway.
Simply saying that it is people who arrive from a country that "drives on the other side" being a problem is a little erroneous.

We have shitty driving standards here.
Couple that with the fact that our police force doesn't give a crap about enforcing driving standards (running red lights, courtesy, tailgating, etc) unless there is pressure from above to "do something". The campaign for a weeks duration regarding cellphone use while driving, is a case in point.

Has anyone else noticed when Top Gear is out in the countryside reviewing a car, you occasionally see an arrow painted in the center of the lane which curves to the left as a simple reminder to do just that? A good wake-up call for all drivers, especially tourists.
The only signs I have seen here are those coming out of Auckland airport saying "remember to drive on the left".


I do like the idea of phamphlets being available on the aircraft arriving in NZ. It would be a start, but a multiple approoach to the entire problem involves all kiwi drivers as well as visitors to this country.

[BoristheBiter]

We have shitty driving standards here.
Couple that with the fact that our police force doesn't give a crap about enforcing driving standards (running red lights, courtesy, tailgating, etc) unless there is pressure from above to "do something". The campaign for a weeks duration regarding cellphone use while driving, is a case in point.

Has anyone else noticed when Top Gear is out in the countryside reviewing a car, you occasionally see an arrow painted in the center of the lane which curves to the left as a simple reminder to do just that? A good wake-up call for all drivers, especially tourists.
The only signs I have seen here are those coming out of Auckland airport saying "remember to drive on the left".


I do like the idea of phamphlets being available on the aircraft arriving in NZ. It would be a start, but a multiple approoach to the entire problem involves all kiwi drivers as well as visitors to this country.

As much as i agree that there isn't enough enforcement towards bad driving, it is one of those things you have to see to issue an infringement notice.
Also when I started to drive my mates told me how bad my driving was, some wouldn't get in the car, so I changed. Now it is just ignored or whined about on forums.
I will tell anyone if I think they are driving/riding like a dick and expect other to do the same with me.

There are arrows on the road in quite a few places.

[swbarnett]

thats the kiwi way, she'll be right mate.....etc etc, and if she's not right, oopps a daisy or two.
Not just the Kiwi way. This is true for all countries that recognise an international license.

[Berries]

Simply saying that it is people who arrive from a country that "drives on the other side" being a problem is a little erroneous.
And although there are plenty of assumptions in this thread it hasn't actually been mentioned as one of the reasons behind the crash either.


Has anyone else noticed when Top Gear is out in the countryside reviewing a car, you occasionally see an arrow painted in the center of the lane which curves to the left as a simple reminder to do just that? A good wake-up call for all drivers, especially tourists.
Those markings are the equivalent of the five yellow stripes we have here before a solid yellow no overtaking line, ie a warning of the restriction about to start. I'd agree though that they do unwittingly provide that subtle reminder to keep left.

[Banditbandit]

I'd agree though that they do unwittingly provide that subtle reminder to keep left.

Only on Kiwi Biker could large white arrows painted on the road be called "subtle" ..

[jasonu]

:Oops:



Some time ago, i went to the AA and gave them my german driver license. I got a NZ lisences in return. No questions asked, no driver lessons taken, no nothing zilch nada etc.

I asked the Lady if she was joking, and her answer was " Germans in have much stronger testing and licensing rules then we have here in NZ, and the law states that you can just have your license replaced, so here you go stop bothering me".

Note: I have never driven a car in NZ (still haven't).
I went to do my basic handling skill test, did my L and was told I was now legal to ride on the road on a bike. WTF i ask, you are sure about that? and again i was told to just accept how stuff is done in NZ and enjoy my riding. :Punk:

I then took a riding course (i do like to stay alive), and the very first thing i did, after the little voice in my ear told me to turn right.........end up on the right side of the road. GO LEFT GO LEFT GO LEFT....lol

Phil, from riderskills, did ask: Why, Really Why, do you Germans do this all the time !.......Well I am german and we do drive on the other side, sorry :Oops:



No one should get a free license without any , any , testing of the road code, and some sort of practical driving test. Feel lucky, go do the test straight away, go on the incorrect side of the road....sorry sir or mam, please walk. But feel free to take some lessons and come back and try to pass your lisence again.

When I went fo my USA DL they told me if I was from Germany they would have forgone the test and just given me one as the Germans also drive on the wrong side of the road...
I do agree with you that no manner where you have come from you should do the local test.

[Maha]

:Oops:



Some time ago, i went to the AA and gave them my german driver license. I got a NZ lisences in return. No questions asked, no driver lessons taken, no nothing zilch nada etc.

I asked the Lady if she was joking, and her answer was " Germans in have much stronger testing and licensing rules then we have here in NZ, and the law states that you can just have your license replaced, so here you go stop bothering me".

Note: I have never driven a car in NZ (still haven't).
I went to do my basic handling skill test, did my L and was told I was now legal to ride on the road on a bike. WTF i ask, you are sure about that? and again i was told to just accept how stuff is done in NZ and enjoy my riding. :Punk:

I then took a riding course (i do like to stay alive), and the very first thing i did, after the little voice in my ear told me to turn right.........end up on the right side of the road. GO LEFT GO LEFT GO LEFT....lol

Phil, from riderskills, did ask: Why, Really Why, do you Germans do this all the time !.......Well I am german and we do drive on the other side, sorry :Oops:



No one should get a free license without any , any , testing of the road code, and some sort of practical driving test. Feel lucky, go do the test straight away, go on the incorrect side of the road....sorry sir or mam, please walk. But feel free to take some lessons and come back and try to pass your lisence again.

Yes, but oh what fun you had with your BHS iirc?....:shifty:

[tzrmike]

Habit of a lifetime is a hard thing to break.

While in Europe recently, if not using public transport, I walked. Took nearly three bloody weeks to stop looking right, left, right when crossing the road!

[pete376403]

With conventions like this, it becomes easier to understand the reasons behind the events.
Drive on the Right

Except for a brief period during the Cultural Revolution (1966–1976) when the government encouraged people to drive on the left (for symbolic/ideological reasons)[citation needed], the convention has been to drive on the right. In practice, however, driving to the left into oncoming traffic is not uncommon in China, nor is it as stigmatized and penalized as it is in other countries. This is especially true of bicyclists, electric bicycles, and motorcycles who—unless physically prevented by barriers—are almost equally likely to be found riding on the right, left or straight down the middle of lanes of traffic.

[edit] Right-of-way

Right-of-way (Simplified Chinese: 先行权, Pinyin: xiānxíngquán, Lit: “first go rights”) is defined as such in all Chinese dictionaries, however, most Chinese drivers’ understanding of this concept is markedly different from those in societies with a strong tradition of the rule of law. Compared to the western understanding of right-of-way, which refers to the legal right to proceed forward in a vehicle without fear of being found at fault for causing a collision, right-of-way in China means, for all intents and purposes, that the person who is in the way (first) has the right. In practice, this translates into motorists and cyclists turning or merging straight into the path of other traffic believing that the onus is on the other person to avoid a collision.

When the right-of-way is unclear (such as at unmarked intersections) it is common practice for drivers in many parts of the world to make eye contact with each other and use nods or hand gestures to either exert or defer right-of-way. The opposite applies in China, where people actively avoid eye contact, and in fact turn away from the person whose progress they are impeding so as to communicate their intention to proceed regardless.

(Wikipedia)

[scumdog]

Damn ...

Two motorcyclists died after a crash with a car on the Lindis Pass in the South Island.

The two motorcycles struck the car about 2.15pm on Monday on the pass about 55km east of Wanaka.

Two people died while one person with serious injuries was being flown to Dunedin Hospital, police said.

It was not clear if anybody else was involved in the crash.
The pass, a stretch of State Highway 8 in North Otago which crosses the Southern Alps between Twizel and Wanaka, is expected to be closed until at least 7pm on Monday.

And the day before that I passed the scene of two other motorbike crashes that had happened literally 2-3 minutes beforehand, this was while I was heading north from the Magpie Madness.

Both seemed to be the fault of the rider
One did (or attempted to do) a U-turn at the end of the passing lanes between Ashburton adn Chertsey, he got cleaned out by a van heading in the other direction (his lucky day, all the passengers were doctors)

The other appeared to be a case of two bikers travelling close together and at the rear of a well stretched out group.
Both of the riders APPEARED to have overcooked a moderate (for 100kph it would be moderate<_<) left-hand bend and ploughed into the side of a camper-van heading in the other direction.

I came around the same bend to find the camper-van imbeded into the bank to my left (ie wrong side of road for it) and bad crash damage to the drivers side behind the drivers-seat area.
And two bikes, two riders scattered along the road, all four not moving....

The front-runners of the group were waiting in Cheviot for the two involved in the crash to appear.

The whole group had overtaken me five or so minutes before.

'The jury is still out' as to whose fault this crash was but there's not much to indicate fault with the camper-van driver...

Just sayin'....

[blue rider]

Yes, but oh what fun you had with your BHS iirc?....:shifty:

id did :innocent: and i didn't hit anything! :woohoo:

[Maki]

I was one of them. Went north through the Lindis well before the incident in question, though.

I did have a related incident. Somewhere between Twizel and Fairlie there's a big sweeping lefthander at the top of a rise, there's a good wide shoulder on the left, I suspect it's supposed to be a slow vehicle lane but it's not really that wide, and I don't think it's marked as such.

Anyway, I crested the hill more or less smack in the middle of that "slow" lane, just in time to have a grey sedan appear, overtaking a line of cars coming the other way... in my lane. Couldn't believe it, looked at the lane markings again... sure enough, he'd just crested the top of a hill on a blind corner, on the wrong side of the road.

Thinking back, there wern't any yellow lines, perhaps the turn wans't that tight, but If I'd been in the correct lane I doubt I'd have tightened up enough to get under him, I'd be gone for all money. Luckily the 6 guys behind me had all also moved left into the inside lane.

I wonder when and if the police will start to come down on that kind of murderous behavior rather than chasing people who are going at a safe speed according to the conditions which happens to be a few k above the posted speed limit. Never I guess because it would be too hard.

I also wonder why no one has suggested the glaringly obvious solution to this "driving on the wrong side of the road" problem. Why don't all countries simply AGREE to drive either on the right or the left hand side of the road everywhere and there would never be any confusion? Of course that is too hard too because WE always know better than THEY do and WE ride on the right side and THEY ride on the wrong side.

[Ocean1]

Why don't all countries simply AGREE to drive either on the right or the left hand side of the road everywhere and there would never be any confusion?

Because using the side of the road you're not familliar with isn't really the primary cause of head-ons.

Not even for Chinese.

This is:


right-of-way in China means, for all intents and purposes, that the person who is in the way (first) has the right. In practice, this translates into motorists and cyclists turning or merging straight into the path of other traffic believing that the onus is on the other person to avoid a collision.

(Wikipedia)

Which is a perfectly valid traffic control protocol. In China. It's a real education to drive there, leave a space in front of you and someone will fill it every time. The problem here isn't them being unaccustomed to driving on the left, it's firstly that they're used to taking advantage of every single opportunity to advance in traffic whatever the local rules and secondly the fact that they very rarely drive at speed with traffic traveling the other way, so the consequenses of that behaviour aren't high over there.

Besides, I doubt the guy/girl that appeared on my side of the road at well over the limit was Chinese, the model and fettling were what you'd normally associate with a young kiwi.

I still find it hard to understand how anyone could put themselves in that position. I've very occasionally taken chances that have proved in hindsight to have been more risky that might have been prudent, perhaps resulting in less clearance between me and other traffic than I'm comfortable with. But I've got no idea at all what decision making procedures make someone suddenly decide to put themselves in an opposing lane on a blind corner, and yet I've seen it happen far more regularly over the last few years. What's changed?

[Jantar]

I came through the Lindis yesterday and the cause and results are pretty plain to see. It was on that tight corner just north of Goodgers. The car coming south has simply failed to take the bend, and crossed straight over the road. No hint of driving on the wrong side of the road, and even if no motorcycles had been there at that precise instant in time, she would still have crashed the car.

[scumdog]

I came through the Lindis yesterday and the cause and results are pretty plain to see. It was on that tight corner just north of Goodgers. The car coming south has simply failed to take the bend, and crossed straight over the road. No hint of driving on the wrong side of the road, and even if no motorcycles had been there at that precise instant in time, she would still have crashed the car.

Dont tell me speed was involved....:shifty:

[swbarnett]

Dont tell me speed was involved....:shifty:
Good chance they were driving too fast for the conditions. However, theres's also a good chance they were under the limit.

Speed may have been involved but it is most likely irrelevant. The primary problem seems to be a complete lack of ability when it comes to judging the tightness of corners.

[FJRider]

Good chance they were driving too fast for the conditions. However, theres's also a good chance they were under the limit.

Speed may have been involved but it is most likely irrelevant. The primary problem seems to be a complete lack of ability when it comes to judging the tightness of corners.

Who are you referring too ..??? The woman driver that has been charged ... or the motorcyclists ... ???

Anybody attempting to take that particular corner at (or near) the speed limit will end up parked on the armco ...

[Berries]

Anybody attempting to take that particular corner at (or near) the speed limit will end up parked on the armco ...
Jantar was a few km out with the location. The crash was south of Goodger Road on a 75km/h signed reverse curve not the really tight bend at Camp Creek.

[Jantar]

Jantar was a few km out with the location. The crash was south of Goodger Road on a 75km/h signed reverse curve not the really tight bend at Camp Creek.
Ok. In that case there has obviously been another serious crash at the tight bend near Goodgers sometime between Sunday and Friday involving a car and at least two motorcycles. Any details on that one?

[Berries]

I'm not arguing on here, but have a look at the photo in the online ODT. Link. (http://www.odt.co.nz/regions/central-otago/236688/two-killed-lindis-when-car-motorcycles-collide)

[jellywrestler]

Dont tell me speed was involved....:shifty:

and alcohol of course

[PrincessBandit]

And more motorcyclists killed today in separate accidents.

[Jantar]

I'm not arguing on here, but have a look at the photo in the online ODT. Link. (http://www.odt.co.nz/regions/central-otago/236688/two-killed-lindis-when-car-motorcycles-collide)

That is certainly NOT the Camp Creek bend, so another multiple vehicle accident in the last week. Maybe no serious injuries, but You can clearly see where a cay has failed to take the bend and skid marks from two bikes ending in fluids in 3 places on the road. Deritus on the road side suggests motorcycles were involved.

[FJRider]

Jantar was a few km out with the location. The crash was south of Goodger Road on a 75km/h signed reverse curve not the really tight bend at Camp Creek.

I had been told different to what Jantar stated ... but had no reason to argue it with him if he was through there. That corner is a local panel beaters favourite ... (as is the one way bridge over the Lindis river south of Tarris)

However ... The information I was given was ... the motorcyclists were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Traveling close together put more than one person involved. A two second gap with the rider in front of them may (would ..??) have saved one riders life.

The group trusted other road users to stay on their side of the road. One road user didn't stay on their side ... and two people died.

Those that like to ride closely together in a group ... might like to remember this accident. All the riders skill (or speed) had no effect on the end result.

[jellywrestler]

Those that like to ride closely together in a group ... might like to remember this accident. All the riders skill (or speed) had no effect on the end result.

ditto for todays accident in the NAKI

[chap]

R.I.P. Granny RKFFRK & Deano FFMC
Sadly missed never forgotten
Ride on

[skippa1]

R.I.P. Granny RKFFRK & Deano FFMC
Sadly missed never forgotten
Ride on

+1 what he said

[swbarnett]

Who are you referring too ..??? The woman driver that has been charged ... or the motorcyclists ... ???
From earlier comments it seems like the woman being charged is the obvious candidate.


Anybody attempting to take that particular corner at (or near) the speed limit will end up parked on the armco ...
Exactly my point. The speed limit is irrelevant in this situation. To say "speed was involved" is a tad simplistic.

[FJRider]

... Exactly my point. The speed limit is irrelevant in this situation. To say "speed was involved" is a tad simplistic.

Actually ... the corner that the accident actually happened ... can be taken at or above the speed limit. (on a motorbike anyway) With good visibility from either direction.The bikes would have had a good sweeping left-hander ... with little risk of crossing the centerline.

The bikes just arrived at the corner at the wrong time. Had they been traveling slower ...

And if they were over the speed limit ... would anything change. Would the woman face lesser charges ... ??? Would it really matter to anybody ... ???

[swbarnett]

And if they were over the speed limit ... would anything change. Would the woman face lesser charges ... ??? Would it really matter to anybody ... ???
If they were riding to the conditions it matters not what the speed limit was.

And, yes, I do consider traffic to be one of the conditions.

[Berries]

An update for those who still believe she was driving on the wrong side of the road - http://www.odt.co.nz/your-town/alexandra/238984/compassionate-response-after-drivers-guilty-plea. (http://www.odt.co.nz/your-town/alexandra/238984/compassionate-response-after-drivers-guilty-plea) Any driver could have made this mistake, many do.

[scumdog]

An update for those who still believe she was driving on the wrong side of the road - http://www.odt.co.nz/your-town/alexandra/238984/compassionate-response-after-drivers-guilty-plea. (http://www.odt.co.nz/your-town/alexandra/238984/compassionate-response-after-drivers-guilty-plea) Any driver could have made this mistake, many do.

Ya kinda killed the thread with that post Berries.

Too much truth & fact for K.B methinks...

[FJRider]

An update for those who still believe she was driving on the wrong side of the road .

Any driver could have made this mistake, many do.

That was all that was reported by the media. She was on the wrong side of the road when she was hit by two motorcycles. Did she not drive there ... ???

Any driver didn't ... she did.

[Coldrider]

That was all that was reported by the media. She was on the wrong side of the road when she was hit by two motorcycles. Did she not drive there ... ???

Any driver didn't ... she did.she had lost control.

[mashman]

An update for those who still believe she was driving on the wrong side of the road - http://www.odt.co.nz/your-town/alexandra/238984/compassionate-response-after-drivers-guilty-plea. (http://www.odt.co.nz/your-town/alexandra/238984/compassionate-response-after-drivers-guilty-plea) Any driver could have made this mistake, many do.

That was rather sad to read. Good on the bikers family's for not taking it out on the girl.

[FJRider]

she had lost control.

So it wasn't her fault then .. ???

[scumdog]

So it wasn't her fault then .. ???

Her level of carelessness was equal to the average Kiwis.

Only the motorbike riders were in the wrong place and out of luck that day.

Otherwise nobody would have died.

Or been badly hurt.

Some days are just plain bad days.

For somebody...

[Coldrider]

So it wasn't her fault then .. ???what the fuck is that?, she didn't deliberately drive there, she lost control, judges words. how much control she ever had is debatable, but stick to the facts, like all KB crash posts everthing is invented that isn't known, which fulls out all the crash posts.

[MadDuck]

That was rather sad to read. Good on the bikers family's for not taking it out on the girl.

Yeah was a sad read on so many levels


Some days are just plain bad days.

For somebody...

Yes. Some days they just are. No amount of chest beating and debating will fix it.

[MD]

So it wasn't her fault then .. ???

For a change I agree with you. I rode over the Lindis Pass a few weeks ago. Can't see any reason why, if she wasn't speeding (as implied in the News) or didn't have a mechanical failure that she "lost control"

You don't just lose control of a car and drift off the seal edge for no reason. The article stated she was a young inexperienced driver with no experience driving on NZ roads. So if she wasn't capable of driving, even at a slow pace on our roads, why did she attempt it?

[Deano]

For a change I agree with you. I rode over the Lindis Pass a few weeks ago. Can't see any reason why, if she wasn't speeding (as implied in the News) or didn't have a mechanical failure that she "lost control"

You don't just lose control of a car and drift off the seal edge for no reason. The article stated she was a young inexperienced driver with no experience driving on NZ roads. So if she wasn't capable of driving, even at a slow pace on our roads, why did she attempt it?

Some people just shouldn't drive ? Not everyone has the dexterity, spatial awareness, or concentration required, but society is too PC to admit that fact.

[FJRider]

what the fuck is that?, she didn't deliberately drive there, she lost control, judges words. how much control she ever had is debatable, but stick to the facts, like all KB crash posts everthing is invented that isn't known, which fulls out all the crash posts.

Which part of my posts were not fact, she was driving (alone) ... or does losing control mean no responsibility on her (or anybody in that situation) ... for her (their) part in the accident ... ??

One act of carelessness and two bikers died ... and its ok (hugs all round) because ... "Any driver could have done it" .. ??

And in another thread ... a biker slowing for a crest of a few hills get vilified for getting the rider following him ... angry.

KB logic ... eh .. !!!

[Coldrider]

Which part of my posts were not fact, she was driving (alone) ... or does losing control mean no responsibility on her (or anybody in that situation) ... for her (their) part in the accident ... ??

One act of carelessness and two bikers died ... and its ok (hugs all round) because ... "Any driver could have done it" .. ??

And in another thread ... a biker slowing for a crest of a few hills get vilified for getting the rider following him ... angry.

KB logic ... eh .. !!!Which part of my thread said it wasn't her fault, tosser?, she is charged with careless driving.

[Coldrider]

That was all that was reported by the media. She was on the wrong side of the road when she was hit by two motorcycles. Did she not drive there ... ???

Any driver didn't ... she did.she had lost control.

[FJRider]

The article stated she was a young inexperienced driver with no experience driving on NZ roads. So if she wasn't capable of driving, even at a slow pace on our roads, why did she attempt it?

She held a license that legally allowed her to hire ... and drive a car in New Zealand. Her great OE ..

[Coldrider]

She held a license that legally allowed her to hire ... and drive a car in New Zealand. Her great OE ..I've hosted, american, german and japanese students, all they want to do is get about and see as much as NZ as they can stuff into their eyeballs, via any means possible.

[FJRider]

Which part of my thread said it wasn't her fault, tosser?, she is charged with careless driving.

Your confusing yourself now ... that was MY question as to if she was at fault. (you haven't answered it yet)


what the fuck is that?, she didn't deliberately drive there, she lost control, judges words. how much control she ever had is debatable, but stick to the facts, like all KB crash posts everthing is invented that isn't known, which fulls out all the crash posts.

You seem to imply she wasn't at fault because she lost control. Or was it because it wasn't deliberate ... ???

So it WAS her fault then ... ??? And which fact(s) was I not sticking too .. ??? :scratch:

[Coldrider]

Your confusing yourself now ... that was MY question as to if she was at fault. (you haven't answered it yet)



You seem to imply she wasn't at fault because she lost control. Or was it because it wasn't deliberate ... ???

So it WAS her fault then ... ??? And which fact(s) was I not sticking too .. ??? :scratch:are you pissed. you said she had driven there, i said it was reported by the judge she had lost control at that point. as the district court has taken its case, it is about facts now, now KB shit you you are still spouting on this and every other crash thread.

[scumdog]

She slowly veered left without realising it, (well the scenery is pretty damned good) hit the gravel, over-reacted, swerved and crossed the road.

Two motorcyclist coming the other way at that point were hit by her car.

I think I have it right.

Oh, and she's sorry big-time.

[Brian d marge]

Well at the end of the day whether she meant it or not , she fked up and two possibly three bike had no escape route , whether through design of the road or their placement onn the road. Avoidable ? unavoidable ? I dont know ,
I for one will just be that extra bit more careful

Thats all

Stephen

[FJRider]

are you pissed. you said she had driven there, i said it was reported by the judge she had lost control at that point. as the district court has taken its case, it is about facts now, now KB shit you you are still spouting on this and every other crash thread.

I think it's you that's pissed ... try reading the post ... if you can read ...

My post you (miss)quoted ..


That was all that was reported by the media. She was on the wrong side of the road when she was hit by two motorcycles. Did she not drive there ... ???

Any driver didn't ... she did.

One person in the car ... in the driving seat ... makes her the driver. Or is it ... if you lose control ... you are no longer responsible for the result .. ??

[Coldrider]

Saw this one on you tube they other day, action at 1:15 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vP5cqzBkaAU

[scumdog]

Saw this one on you tube they other day, action at 1:15 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vP5cqzBkaAU

Yep, lack of attention paves the way to major fuckups eh!

SO preventable that crash...

[Coldrider]

Yep, lack of attention paves the way to major fuckups eh!

SO preventable that crash...what was he thinking ?

[Coldrider]

I think it's you that's pissed ... try reading the post ... if you can read ...

My post you (miss)quoted ..



One person in the car ... in the driving seat ... makes her the driver. Or is it ... if you lose control ... you are no longer responsible for the result .. ??I'm over it dot dot dot bro

[scumdog]

what was he thinking ?

'coon following too close was major problem - after Val ran up the arse of the other car.
Poor EK driver didn't have a shit-show.

[Coldrider]

'coon following too close was major problem - after Val ran up the arse of the other car.
Poor EK driver didn't have a shit-show.yep, a waste of precious metal.

[haydes55]

If you drink and drive which results in an accident which you are at fault for, will you be charged?
You would be making a judgement to drink knowing from the outright you would be driving drunk.
How is it that driving drunk is treated worse than driving underskilled? If you can't control a car to a level which you are 100%at control 100% of the time then you are operating a machine with the knowledge that your lack of skill could result in the death of an innocent person.
Drunk, high, stupid or tired, a conscious desicion to drive should be made knowing the risks of your actions. The risk of your actions could be other peoples lives. She took the same risk as the town drunk stumbling to his car after a night on the piss. And I bet there are hundreds of people who have driven greater distances drunk and had fewer crashes than this woman.

I won't operate the shotover jet boat, i wouldn't be in total control and my actions could result in other peoples deaths. Simple, I know it sounds harsh but she is a murderer, she deserves to be treated the same as anyone else who has gotten behind the wheel unable to safely operate the vehicle, drunk, sober or speeding. Doesn't matter.

[Madness]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11232604

[awa355]

The govt will be more concerned about the loss of tourism dollars from this dipstick chinese driver than it will be about two kiwis being taken out.

I cant see the police getting the laws to enable them to take this kind of driver off our roads. If they did, it could be the thin edge of the wedge to cull out other ' undesirables '.

The article refers to ' incompetent / inexperienced ' drivers. Its a bit hard to become experienced without going thru the inexp stage first. Incompetent however, can stay with some drivers all their lives.

Tourists should simply, not be allowed to drive off in a car as this woman did, with her driving background.

[skippa1]

Asian

woman

:facepalm:


Just sayin

[FJRider]

The govt will be more concerned about the loss of tourism dollars from this dipstick chinese driver than it will be about two kiwis being taken out.

You might want to check out the Annual road death toll in China. There will be no overseas concerns that a few New Zealanders died in a road accident. :wacko:


I cant see the police getting the laws to enable them to take this kind of driver off our roads. If they did, it could be the thin edge of the wedge to cull out other ' undesirables '.

Both foreign and local ... not necessarily a bad thing though ... ;)


The article refers to ' incompetent / inexperienced ' drivers. Its a bit hard to become experienced without going thru the inexp stage first. Incompetent however, can stay with some drivers all their lives.

With experience (usually) comes a degree of wisdom ... and hindsight is a wonderful thing. We should have it before we need it .... :innocent:


Tourists should simply, not be allowed to drive off in a car as this woman did, with her driving background.

SHE had a legal drivers license. Something many Kiwi drivers ON our roads do NOT have. :oi-grr:

[MD]

You just have to wonder at the level of her utter stupidity. Does she have a brain, a conscience? Her picture in the DomPost looked like zero remorse on her face at court.

No laws can ever account for someone so bloody stupid. A few hours driving experience only said to be under 40kph only and she goes to the other side of the world, buys a powerful car and drives all over the road at 100kpm (by eyewitness reports) until she kills. The Chinese use a bullet through the head for corruption. We use a bit of 'disqualified to drive for a while'. Which in this bitch's case means you can't go out and kill anyone else for the next few months.

If I sound upset I ride that road annually and I love it, and respect it. We all make a simple assumption that ever vehicle around us is driven by someone who can actually control their vehicle. This bitch couldn't control a car at the most basic level of a 12 y.o.

[IkieBikie]

We all make a simple assumption that ever vehicle around us is driven by someone who can actually control their vehicle.

Bad assumption - start thinking real

[MD]

Bad assumption - start thinking real

No it's common sense to expect others to be below average, make mistakes, not look etc. But there is a minimum expectation they can actually operate a car beyond that of child

[FJRider]

No it's common sense to expect others to be below average, make mistakes, not look etc. But there is a minimum expectation they can actually operate a car beyond that of child

It IS common sense to expect every other road user to operate their vehicles safely ...

To rely on that to happen at all times is NOT ...

To expect all other road users to ride/drive like idiots ... and you won't be surprised, and get caught out when you actually meet one. And you WILL meet one ... (or more)

Remember ... if you know YOU don't do it right all the time ... don't expect others will all the time either ...