Loud, still very loud

[NSR143]

I AM WRITING THIS IN UPPER CASE TO EXPRESS MY CASE REGARDING LOUD BIKES

THERE WAS AT MT WELLY... QUITE A LOT OF BIKES THAT WERE LOUD

PEOPLE TALK OF THIS AND THAT AND REVERSE CONES AND ANGULAR RECESSIVE ACOUSTIC MEGA HYPER GADGETS

ELLEN OF SHELRACING WENT AND BOUGHT A $70-80 PIPE OFF TRADE ME.. THAT'S ALL... AT IT WORKS PRETTY GOOD

HERE IS THE LINK TO THE PEOPLE THAT SELL THEM http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/parts-for-sale/exhaust/auction-536246474.htm

NO GUARANTEES ITS GOING TO WORK FOR EVERYONE.. BUT IT MIGHT SUIT WHAT YOU ARE DOING

EVEN SOME OF THE TWO STROKES WERE LOUD

I AM TRYING TO PROTECT YOUR SPORT

DON'T REPLY, DON'T HYPOTHESIZE, JUST FRIKEN DO SOMETHING

this is not everyone so don't get all sulky on me ok!

[quallman1234]

I AM WRITING THIS IN UPPER CASE TO EXPRESS MY CASE REGARDING LOUD BIKES

THERE WAS AT MT WELLY... QUITE A LOT OF BIKES THAT WERE LOUD

PEOPLE TALK OF THIS AND THAT AND REVERSE CONES AND ANGULAR RECESSIVE ACOUSTIC MEGA HYPER GADGETS

ELLEN OF SHELRACING WENT AND BOUGHT A $70-80 PIPE OFF TRADE ME.. THAT'S ALL... AT IT WORKS PRETTY GOOD

HERE IS THE LINK TO THE PEOPLE THAT SELL THEM http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/parts-for-sale/exhaust/auction-536246474.htm

NO GUARANTEES ITS GOING TO WORK FOR EVERYONE.. BUT IT MIGHT SUIT WHAT YOU ARE DOING

EVEN SOME OF THE TWO STROKES WERE LOUD

I AM TRYING TO PROTECT YOUR SPORT

DON'T REPLY, DON'T HYPOTHESIZE, JUST FRIKEN DO SOMETHING

this is not everyone so don't get all sulky on me ok!

People are lazy and think being just a little over the limit will be okay.

A harsh hand is what is needed. If it is too loud, you don't race. Help and support offered for the offender, perhaps with a spare bike to ride.
Simple, its the only way to make a difference. If its too loud, don't go to the track till its fixed.

Unsure about the endurance mufflers, have seen them destroy thereselves to bits, they throw the packing out the back. Maybe the new ones are okay.

[John_H]

I AM WRITING THIS IN UPPER CASE TO EXPRESS MY CASE REGARDING LOUD BIKES

THERE WAS AT MT WELLY... QUITE A LOT OF BIKES THAT WERE LOUD

PEOPLE TALK OF THIS AND THAT AND REVERSE CONES AND ANGULAR RECESSIVE ACOUSTIC MEGA HYPER GADGETS

ELLEN OF SHELRACING WENT AND BOUGHT A $70-80 PIPE OFF TRADE ME.. THAT'S ALL... AT IT WORKS PRETTY GOOD

HERE IS THE LINK TO THE PEOPLE THAT SELL THEM http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/parts-for-sale/exhaust/auction-536246474.htm

NO GUARANTEES ITS GOING TO WORK FOR EVERYONE.. BUT IT MIGHT SUIT WHAT YOU ARE DOING

EVEN SOME OF THE TWO STROKES WERE LOUD

I AM TRYING TO PROTECT YOUR SPORT

DON'T REPLY, DON'T HYPOTHESIZE, JUST FRIKEN DO SOMETHING

this is not everyone so don't get all sulky on me ok!


I have that pipe and it is definitely not quiet, it was frickin loud on my FXR. I have repacked it, sealed all the little leaks in it and now filled it with chicken wire.....and it is just about acceptable!

[chrisc]

A few more recommendations for exhausts wouldn't go astray for the loud ones I'd think

[richban]

A few more recommendations for exhausts wouldn't go astray for the loud ones I'd think

Big volume is the key. Big sports bike mufflers are the shiz. Anything with lots of volume will work well and be quite. Some of the fastest FXR's are the quietest and they use big volume slip on cans. Small volume with very small trough pipes are very loud. Facing them down onto the track also is not a good idea I think it is illegal for road racing. And also creates more noise on certain lean angles.

[F5 Dave]

Those cans as shown appear on some of the loudest bikes in wgtn. they have waay too little volume. Some bikes get away with them, perhaps as they have little contributing inlet noise, perhaps as they feed through a long pipe, perhaps they don't rev very high.

Rich is onto it, & his bike appears to be quite quiet despite being fastest Diesel out there.



Oops we replied. But good call.

[TZ350]

Some of the fastest FXR's are the quietest

Maybe a good time to point out the big hp 2-strokes are very quiet too, so performance and good noise controll can be done.

[koba]

I'll try remember to buy some more pot scrubs and keep them in the van.

[chrisc]

Big volume is the key. Big sports bike mufflers are the shiz. Anything with lots of volume will work well and be quite. Some of the fastest FXR's are the quietest and they use big volume slip on cans. Small volume with very small trough pipes are very loud. Facing them down onto the track also is not a good idea I think it is illegal for road racing. And also creates more noise on certain lean angles.


Maybe a good time to point out the big hp 2-strokes are very quiet too, so performance and good noise controll can be done.

That's great to hear! Can anyone recommend specific after market mufflers or bikes which have a decent factory muffler to use? I suspect the answer is going to be: this is bucket racing, pick up anything as long as it's large volume/quiet but no harm in asking from a performance point of view.

[saxet]

Our race organiser and all round legend, Fishy, borrowed a deicible? meter and spoke to every one who was too loud, those of us who listened to him went and made our bikes quieter.
If you guys could do that people can't really complain if they get excluded next time.

Yeah I know some still will complain.
It's a case of actively trying to keep the noisedown, but you don't know how loud your bike is until it's actually measured.
In my case outright volume wasn't enough but volume combined with a small deflecter seems to have worked.

[AllanB]

At 47 I'm old school and expect to go to motor races and hear LOUD machines. RACING MACHINES.

Fucking Mandy Pambie tree hugging bum fucking homo loving society expecting EVERYTHING to be wrapped in cotton wool.

Ahhh I feel better.

[george formby]

At 47 I'm old school and expect to go to motor races and hear LOUD machines. RACING MACHINES.

Fucking Mandy Pambie tree hugging bum fucking homo loving society expecting EVERYTHING to be wrapped in cotton wool.

Ahhh I feel better.

That makes me feel better too. Ta.

A spectacle needs a sound track.

[Grumph]

At 47 I'm old school and expect to go to motor races and hear LOUD machines. RACING MACHINES.

Fucking Mandy Pambie tree hugging bum fucking homo loving society expecting EVERYTHING to be wrapped in cotton wool.

Ahhh I feel better.

well I'm sorry for you, young man...i go along for the racing - i'm long past the noise aspect. I have a hole in my hearing range thanks to years of unsilenced two strokes...Funnily enough it's the same frequency as the wife...

i grew up on unsilenced manx Nortons and similar - used on tracks that were miles away from civilisation - i at least realise things have changed.

[Bert]

At 47 I'm old school and expect to go to motor races and hear LOUD machines. RACING MACHINES.

Fucking Mandy Pambie tree hugging bum fucking homo loving society expecting EVERYTHING to be wrapped in cotton wool.

Ahhh I feel better.


That's really constructive SIR.
Given your the age of the generation that allowed the country to turn into a Mandy Pambie bla bla; did you stand up against it (did you submit on the RMA or local council bylaws) or bury your head in the sand like most of the people of your generation.... "she'll be right mate"...

This thread is about ensuring that riders meet the standards that have been forced on us (by the above). Its either comply or go home.
Anyone that arrives at a meeting and signs on the dotted line; signs to the fact that their machinery meets the prescribed requirements.
Event organisers are well within their rights to apply the rules and tell people to load up and maybe this should happen a bit more.
Up to now buckets have been quite loose, but given what we have seen in the HB area; I think we all have an obligation to sort out machinery to meet the rules (like it or not).
The last thing we need is noisy bikes that force closure of; or access to further tracks.

like it or not its the only way to ensure that the spectacle remains for people to view.

We have a sound meter (we brought it to ensure all of our bikes were in prescribed limits; and its been calibrated against one of the local councils' units); I'll bring it to the next north island round.
I'd be happy to supply them at cost to others if anyone is interested.

[Grumph]

All MNZ clubs were supplied with a meter some years back. I'm sure any club in your area would cooperate by loaning theirs as noise problems at race venues affect all clubs.

[saxet]

While I do see the points AllenB and Gumph are getting at I work in an extremly safety concious enviroment. That is fuel stations and terminals.
Our company MUST comply or lose the contracts and we'll all need new jobs.
Unfortuantly buckets are in the same boat.
One of the things I love about racing is, once I've complied with the safety requirements I can then go and race like a lunatic.

One of my roles at work is to ensure our subcontractors comply with the safety regs and procedures. It's not much fun at times but if I don't do it they will also lose their contracts.

When all is said and done it's not a huge thing to keep the bikes quieter and we've found that if done well no power is lost and it's more of a drawcard for the public/spectators.

[bucketracer]

Maybe a good time to point out the big hp 2-strokes are very quiet too, so performance and good noise controll can be done.

What is the standard test method for sound levels at a race track???

I have heard different things like measuring at the fence, or at 45 deg and 25m behind the bike in question. I have also heard that at Kaitoki they hang the meter above the start finish line and catch the bikes going past on full song, that sounds like a good idea.

Is there a standard level and what are the parameters.

[bucketracer]

OK answered my own question.

10.6.3.1
274044
95dB ride by with the meter 30m from the track center line.

[Kickaha]

What is the standard test method for sound levels at a race track???

I have heard different things like measuring at the fence, or at 45 deg and 25m behind the bike in question. I have also heard that at Kaitoki they hang the meter above the start finish line and catch the bikes going past on full song, that sounds like a good idea.

Is there a standard level and what are the parameters.


Kart rules can be found at http://www.kartsport.org.nz, search noist testing section M and are different with two ways of measuring (cant cut and paste for some reason)

I would think if you're at a kart track their rules would apply

[bucketracer]

Kart rules can be found at http://www.kartsport.org.nz, search noist testing section M

I couldn't get the subsection M to print either, will try again later.


I would think if you're at a kart track their rules would apply

Sounds reasonable.

[Yow Ling]

Untill one or two offenders are told to put their bike on the trailer, the people that dont respect the rule arent really going to be bothered

[AllanB]

Actually I have written many a protest letter over the years regarding racling and noise regulations, vehicle noise regulations, fireworks, blablabla. Fuck me I even vote every election. Fat lot of good any of it does as I'm a hetrosexual, white guy who actually works for a living. And the harder I work the more tax I pay so laws and conditions I disagree with can be enforced to keep a vocal minority happy.

Suppose you will support compulsary wearing of high-vis riding gear too?

[AllanB]

The CHCH Kart track has been around for absolute decades - The council allowed subdivisions to be developed closer and closer to it - guess who complained and guess who had to change.

[saxet]

I know what you mean and I hate to think where it's all going to end but as youv'e found out fighting it just dosn't seem to work.

[Str8 Jacket]

Actually I have written many a protest letter over the years regarding racling and noise regulations, vehicle noise regulations, fireworks, blablabla. Fuck me I even vote every election. Fat lot of good any of it does as I'm a hetrosexual, white guy who actually works for a living. And the harder I work the more tax I pay so laws and conditions I disagree with can be enforced to keep a vocal minority happy.

Suppose you will support compulsary wearing of high-vis riding gear too?

What part of shut the fuck up or you'll get ALL OF US kicked of the tracks forever don't you understand?

[Maha]

At 47 I'm old school and expect to go to motor races and hear LOUD machines. RACING MACHINES.

Fucking Mandy Pambie tree hugging bum fucking homo loving society expecting EVERYTHING to be wrapped in cotton wool.

Ahhh I feel better.

Steel wool I think you'll find....:corn:

[bucketracer]

Ok I still cant print or copy a page of the Kart Sport rules.

http://www.kartsport.org.nz/rules/rules-and-notices

Anyway page 157 talks about noise measurement, methods and limits at Kart Tracks.


I would think if you're at a kart track their rules would apply

Sounds reasonable to me.

Basically the preferred Karting method is a 106.4dB limit with the meter suspended 1.8m above the drive line at a point on the track where the Karts are accelerating hard and alternatively a 88dB limit with the meter 15m to the side of the drive line.

Karts also have to have inlet mufflers that reduce induction noise.

I guess we have to figure out how our MNZ mandated 95dB limit fits into this.

Maybe use two meters one 1.8m above the track with a max limit of 106.4dB like the Karts and another for a 95dB limit placed 30m from the racing center line for MNZ and have bikes comply with both limits.


We have a sound meter (we brought it to ensure all of our bikes were in prescribed limits; and its been calibrated against one of the local councils' units); I'll bring it to the next north island round.

I'd be happy to supply them at cost to others if anyone is interested.

Bert how much did you pay for yours??

So there it is, easy to understand limits and how to measure them and cost price meters, so there are no excuses now because its easy for riders, teams or the organizers to implement if they want to.

[RDjase]

Ok I still cant print or copy a page of the Kart Sport rules.

http://www.kartsport.org.nz/rules/rules-and-notices

Anyway page 157 talks about noise measurement, methods and limits at Kart Tracks.



Sounds reasonable to me.

Basically the preferred Karting method is a 106.4dB limit with the meter suspended 1.8m above the drive line at a point on the track where the Karts are accelerating hard and alternatively a 88dB limit with the meter 15m to the side of the drive line.

Karts also have to have inlet mufflers that reduce induction noise.

I guess we have to figure out how our MNZ mandated 95dB limit fits into this.

Maybe use two meters one 1.8m above the track with a max limit of 106.4dB like the Karts and another for a 95dB limit placed 30m from the racing center line for MNZ and have bikes comply with both limits.



Bert how much did you pay for yours??

So there it is, easy to understand limits and how to measure them and cost price meters, so there are no excuses now because its easy for riders, teams or the organizers to implement if they want to.

http://www.jaycar.co.nz/productView.asp?ID=QM1599&keywords=sound&form=KEYWORD

Data logging sound meter,

Would be good to have a the track in various positions and see how the sound is affected by groups of bikes and bikes separatly

There are other sound meters at Jaycar starting from $47

http://www.jaycar.co.nz/productView.asp?ID=QM1591&keywords=sound&form=KEYWORD

$119

http://www.jaycar.co.nz/productView.asp?ID=QM1589&keywords=sound&form=KEYWORD

Dont know how good they are but its a start point to sort out the noise problem that WILL shut down more tracks if it isnt sorted !

[Bert]

...........

Bert how much did you pay for yours??

So there it is, easy to understand limits and how to measure them and cost price meters, so there are no excuses now because its easy for riders, teams or the organizers to implement if they want to.

About 35 bucks. The datalogging version is ~70 including shipping.
Calibration is a bit of an ass if it incorrect. You just have to except a correction factor or. Chuck in the bin

Jase has a valid point as multiple bikes (producing simpler frequencies will produce a loader sound). Thus while everyone should be under the maximum values all attempts should be made to get them as quite as possible.

[jasonu]

T


Up to now buckets have been quite loose, .

In the 90's at Mt Welli sound was a huge issue as we and the Kart club were trying for a new venue so it was not uncommon for noisy machines to be sent home. It was mostly new people that didn't know any better but they soon learnt.
It worked well, not sure what happened to this policy.

[jasonu]

What part of if the organisers don't take a firm hand to the noisy machines and prevent them from entering the track or the local council will shut the whole place down?

There, fixed.

[Str8 Jacket]

There, fixed.

Didn't need fixing. People need to take personal responsibility, or fuck off.

[Voltaire]

Same thing happened at the Classic meet at Puke in Feb, Council measured 'somewhere' on the track, a list was posted up and the ones that were over 95 Db were given the opportunity to reduce the noise, most complied, lots grumbled, some had to pack up.
Apparently some bikes went better ..... there was steel wool picked up off the track at the end of the meet.....
Testing can be a bit variable depending on wind, low cloud etc....but the Council I have been told will shut the meeting down.

[jasonu]

Didn't need fixing. People need to take personal responsibility, or fuck off.

But for those that either don't know they are too loud or are too stupid or ignorant to do anything about it, the organisers must take charge don't you think?
In the past at Mt Welli, sometimes a noise meter was used in machine scrutineering. Too loud, fix it or fuck off until it is fixed.

[crazy man]

Same thing happened at the Classic meet at Puke in Feb, Council measured 'somewhere' on the track, a list was posted up and the ones that were over 95 Db were given the opportunity to reduce the noise, most complied, lots grumbled, some had to pack up.
Apparently some bikes went better ..... there was steel wool picked up off the track at the end of the meet.....
Testing can be a bit variable depending on wind, low cloud etc....but the Council I have been told will shut the meeting down.and l also know a muffer fell of after trying to fix it for the next day on a sidecar and somone was nealy killed because of it.

[crazy man]

dont think people have to be to nasty over it . we need a meter on had and any new comers get tested and if to loud ,told to get it fixed of the next meet . maybe a good idea if some guys carry muffers you can sell that you know will fix it for the next meeting . but guess if you turn up again and done nothing about it then come down hard on them

[jasonu]

dont think people have to be to nasty over it . we need a meter on had and any new comers get tested and if to loud ,told to get it fixed of the next meet . maybe a good idea if some guys carry muffers you can sell that you know will fix it for the next meeting . but guess if you turn up again and done nothing about it then come down hard on them

Yep that is a good policy.

[Str8 Jacket]

dont think people have to be to nasty over it . we need a meter on had and any new comers get tested and if to loud ,told to get it fixed of the next meet . maybe a good idea if some guys carry muffers you can sell that you know will fix it for the next meeting . but guess if you turn up again and done nothing about it then come down hard on them

Been tried year in and year out with the NI series. Until people were told to fix the prob or F-off no one made any effort and it looks like some people are still not listening. That's what ruins it for everyone and puts the organisers in a nasty position come race day...... Guess Steve is saying enough is enough now!

[jasonu]

Been tried year in and year out with the NI series. Until people were told to fix the prob or F-off no one made any effort and it looks like some people are still not listening. That's what ruins it for everyone and puts the organisers in a nasty position come race day...... Guess Steve is saying enough is enough now!

If that is the case then the offenders need to be sent home. As long as it is done fairly and consistantly and the testing is also consistant I don't see this as a nasty position for the organisers.

[crazy man]

dont know whats going to happen at manfeild ? was told its going to be 85 db ! which is 10 lease than kart tracks. l sore reading and most 4 stroke are only around 1 db under the 95 . hope l read that wrong for everyone's sake

[Grumph]

Doesn't surprise me - the place has been getting progressively more built up around since I first went there.

Talk to your speedway cam customers about tight noise regs - 92DB with a TQ or similar is easy to achieve.

[richban]

dont know whats going to happen at manfeild ? was told its going to be 85 db !


Is that written somewhere? If so it should be discussed now as there will be a lot of people traveling and to be told to go home would not be nice for them.

[F5 Dave]

There was talk of a Manfield day that was going to be that 'quiet', but was a previous date. I don't know if this NI round is also to this level.

There are only so many "Loud' days allowed for the track so when they get used up there are the quiet days left. Presumably training road vehicles would be no drama on these days.

[crazy man]

Is that written somewhere? If so it should be discussed now as there will be a lot of people traveling and to be told to go home would not be nice for them.l'm shore l sore skunk wright it somewhere but can't find it now . hope he had put some light on it or bert may know

[Shorty_925]

This is the sort of commitment needed.274123

[fi5hy]

This is the sort of commitment needed.274123

Is that a rocket up your bum or you just pleased to ride me?

[Yow Ling]

Honda leading by example


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=fvwp&NR=1&v=OyeId-mQjEQ

[Shorty_925]

Is that a rocket up your bum or you just pleased to ride me?

Not mine but the crasher in this : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdURYzHiyWQ&feature=share

Maybe he's trying to keep it out of the way for another bike flip... :shifty:

[grantnz]

Not mine but the crasher in this : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdURYzHiyWQ&feature=share

Maybe he's trying to keep it out of the way for another bike flip... :shifty:


Wait til I see you at Tokoroa Mr. Shorty. Keep looking over your shoulder, cause you won't hear me coming. And that thing does fire rockets. Ran it today along with a similar sized one on the FXR. Large volume certainly seems to work.

[Shorty_925]

Keep looking over your shoulder, cause you won't hear me coming. And that thing does fire rockets. Ran it today along with a similar sized one on the FXR. Large volume certainly seems to work.

Glad you know your place on the track! :bleh:

[Henk]

Glad you know your place on the track! :bleh:

About to lap you?

[Shorty_925]

About to lap you?

only after you have been lapped Sir! :chase:

[Skunk]

l'm shore l sore skunk wright it somewhere but can't find it now . hope he had put some light on it or bert may knowThat level was for a previous date. The level at Manfeild is 72 or 75dB but that is measured at set points outside the track by the Council.
We will be running to the MNZ rule of 95dB MAXIMUM at 30m from track centreline. Once you sign that entry from you have agreed to meet this standard (and many other things...). Don't test me to see if I will send you home or not or you will find out why I win the 'Prick of the Week' award at work, every week, for the last SEVEN YEARS. :mellow:

[jasonu]

Don't test me to see if I will send you home or not or you will find out why I win the 'Prick of the Week' award at work, every week, for the last SEVEN YEARS. :mellow:

I thought Trustrum owned that one.

[F5 Dave]

nah you're thinking Dick of the week.


So this meet will be normal race bike level (which is less than several Mini mufflered buckets I noted this weekend.)

[grantnz]

This 'ere says you can not exceed the limit. MNZ levels 95 dbl for individual bikes mean diddly squat when the maximum level measured at the boundary by the Council is bugger all.



(5) Motorised Activities and Amplified Music (Special Purpose Zone: Regional Sports Park)
Rule 14.2.8.1 shall not apply to activities involving motorised activities or amplified music within the Special Purpose Zone: Regional Sports Park during the hours of 0900 – 2300 for up to 8 events in any calendar year for a maximum of 6 hours per event (including practices) During these times the noise level as measured within the notional boundary of any occupied residential building within the Plains zone and any occupied site zoned Residential or Deferred Residential shall not exceed the following levels:

If you start your chainsaw, while the Missus is mowing the lawn, after 12pm on a Sunday, and then one off your homekill cows farts, all at the same time, you are screwed.

[Kendog]

nah you're thinking Dick of the week.


So this meet will be normal race bike level (which is less than several Mini mufflered buckets I noted this weekend.)
I did notice a number of fxr's with tiny mufflers in b grade. I am hoping Andrew brings his sound meter for the 2 day and we do some testing.

[Bert]

I did note a couple of things up at Tokoroa (outside of my own bike being a little loud than I thought).

1. Air cooled Two strokes; just packing the stinger won't deal with all the noise issues (yes it helps); but a number of machines had a lot of fin ringing. What you may ask??.... the air cooled fins can produce a high frequency hum at high revs (something that even goKarts suffer); this is why most air cooled engines (read racing and some road bikes) have rubber bungs pressed in between the fins too dampen the harmonics (for some reason people have removed them)??? put them back...

2. Induction noise. If you don't like the original airbox, build a new one.
No airbox will allow all the induction noise to add to the problem and your likely to loose power due to lack of still air for the Carb; so its silly anyway...


little link to info on sound calculations etc.
http://www.nonoise.org/library/sndbasic/sndbasic.htm#4.3
(I used this a while back for a presentation at work as it is a recognised methodology)

[Rick 52]

Cheers Burt, I didn't know about the rubber fin thing ..I am going to build a air box ASAP as I get a lot of stand off air fuel mix and I think at Toke with it being so warm and a little higher that Mt Welly it was running rich and some oil could have run down the swing arm to my rear tyre..:gob:

[richban]

it was running rich and some oil could have run down the swing arm to my rear tyre..:gob:

Yeah when we were chatting about that there did seam a lot of slippery stuff around the rear tyre. :sweatdrop

[all4A50s]

Cheers Burt, I didn't know about the rubber fin thing ..I am going to build a air box ASAP as I get a lot of stand off air fuel mix and I think at Toke with it being so warm and a little higher that Mt Welly it was running rich and some oil could have run down the swing arm to my rear tyre..:gob:

For what its worth I'm trying out a Sports Pro pod filter. The one I have is 102mm long and fit onto a 43mm carb inlet.