Good idea?

[Paul in NZ]

Scum Villages??? haha... Could work...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/netherlands/9719247/Amsterdam-to-create-scum-villages.html

[Edbear]

Recipe for disaster! What we need is a "Scum Squad" that goes in like the AOS and deals with the family/tenant, whatever and makes them learn to behave by making them clean the place up under supervision, take parenting, anger management and sobriety courses and how to get a job.

Wouldn't take long for word to spread and encourage others to do something.

[Paul in NZ]

I dunno - while a part of me thinks great chance to get rid of a few issues it also smacks of social engineering.

[SMOKEU]

That plan sounds great. Bring it on.

[Banditbandit]

Who decides? Huh? ... Major important question ..

If it was me I'd drop all the National Party members in one place, put them under police supervision and not let them vote .. (just an example - don't get all outraged on me ...) But seriously ..

What happens if the powers that want to be decide that all motorcyclists are scum and should be dropped in a village by themselves ??? (Yeah - I know - one close enough to, or including, Hampton Downs ...)

I'm sure we would all like to get rid of people into "scum villages" but we woud urgue for ever about who those "scum" are ...

[Grubber]

That plan sounds great. Bring it on.

Why doesn't that comment surprise me coming from you!

[Bikemad]

ummm.....don't we already have them in the likes of otara,manurewa,mangere etc etc............people already living in caravans and shit with pretty much constant police presence............just sayin:msn-wink:

[SMOKEU]

Why doesn't that comment surprise me coming from you!

I'm full of bright ideas.


Who decides? Huh? ... Major important question ..

I call shotgun.

[Banditbandit]

I'm full of bright ideas.

Well you're certainly full of something ...


I call shotgun.

Shotgun ???? Isn't that something to do with several people smoking the same joint? (Or am I just old?)

[SMOKEU]

Shotgun ???? Isn't that something to do with several people smoking the same joint? (Or am I just old?)

In this case I wasn't referring to buds. "Shotgun" (in this instance) refers to the fact that I was volunteering my services for the specified task(s).

[scumdog]

I'm full of bright ideas.


I call shotgun.

You want to ride in the front passenger seat??

[SMOKEU]

You want to ride in the front passenger seat??

Sure, why not.

[mashman]

It's a great idea. Housing estates have always been the way to go. It leaves the rest of us happier to live alongside those who don't enjoy having fun anymore.

[Road kill]

Recipe for disaster! What we need is a "Scum Squad" that goes in like the AOS and deals with the family/tenant, whatever and makes them learn to behave by making them clean the place up under supervision, take parenting, anger management and sobriety courses and how to get a job.

Wouldn't take long for word to spread and encourage others to do something.

We have that now.

Their called the police and their backed by a whole industry that proffits from victimising anybody they don't like.

Another country had the next step up the ladder for a while,,,they were called "The SS".

Smoku's old people used to force everybody they didn't like into camps as well,,,,we had protests against people like that during the early 80's.

Word spread and people "did something" allright.

Now an then a subject comes up that shows what some of the people on this site really are,,this has been one of them.

Talk about not learning from the past.

Sickening stuff.

[Nova.]

good idea indeed!
:devil2:
can i volunteer to sit in the watch tower?? do i get a gun!!??

[GSF]

If you pile all your shit in the same place it'll just stink worse than before.

Fixing a deeply ingrained social problem like this is probably just going to create an even bigger problem further down the line.

[Edbear]

We have that now.

Their called the police and their backed by a whole industry that proffits from victimising anybody they don't like.

Another country had the next step up the ladder for a while,,,they were called "The SS".

Smoku's old people used to force everybody they didn't like into camps as well,,,,we had protests against people like that during the early 80's.

Word spread and people "did something" allright.

Now an then a subject comes up that shows what some of the people on this site really are,,this has been one of them.

Talk about not learning from the past.

Sickening stuff.

My goodness you are precious aren't you? "profiting from victimising people they don't like"? Where is the profit? Why is holding to account people who disrupt the community, commit domestic violence, trash their house, intimidate their neighbours and generally make a nuisance of themselves, victimising them? Why do the Police get involved? Just because they have nothing better to do than drive around looking for people to "victimise"?

[Usarka]

That plan sounds great. Bring it on.

Maybe you are scum but just don't know it.....

[Ocean1]

Scum Villages??? haha... Could work...

What? Consequences, now? For poor behaviour?

Never catch on.

[Kickaha]

Scum Villages??? haha... Could work...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/netherlands/9719247/Amsterdam-to-create-scum-villages.html

We already have one, it's called Auckland

[scumdog]

We have that now.

Their called the police and their backed by a whole industry that proffits from victimising anybody they don't like.

Another country had the next step up the ladder for a while,,,they were called "The SS".

Smoku's old people used to force everybody they didn't like into camps as well,,,,we had protests against people like that during the early 80's.

Word spread and people "did something" allright.

Now an then a subject comes up that shows what some of the people on this site really are,,this has been one of them.

Talk about not learning from the past.

Sickening stuff.

I have a tin-foil hat you can have for free - it might help...:shifty:

[scumdog]

Scum Villages??? haha... Could work...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/netherlands/9719247/Amsterdam-to-create-scum-villages.html


The only part that would worry me is that it might be ME that would be part of the team to 'supervise' them..I do enough of that already...

[Berries]

Burn them.



Or do what Kenny suggests -

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/dMHDBL7CNA4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[scissorhands]

Sounds expensive, thats coming from a Dutch national too, how much??

mental illness can be treated much better than most people think:weird:

[Brian d marge]

This is a better idea

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/qolk_rDA9xU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Stephen

[Paul in NZ]

We have that now.

Their called the police and their backed by a whole industry that proffits from victimising anybody they don't like.

Another country had the next step up the ladder for a while,,,they were called "The SS".

Smoku's old people used to force everybody they didn't like into camps as well,,,,we had protests against people like that during the early 80's.

Word spread and people "did something" allright.

Now an then a subject comes up that shows what some of the people on this site really are,,this has been one of them.

Talk about not learning from the past.

Sickening stuff.

Um - you really really need to get off your high horse and pull your head out of your arse. Discussing what has been suggested / posted onto the press isn't the same as suggesting its actually done. If it was done as suggested then yes - as I pointed out it smacks of social engineering.

However this 'idea' is driven by a problem which is increasingly causing great concern in some countries in Europe. Its not a new thing as there have been countless migrations over the years and historically they can have pretty dire implications for the original residents. if you don't think its a problem go live in some areas of the UK even. Its horrific for everyone. Then there are the broken families spewing out nonfunctional teens who literally have no idea on the basics of hygiene, banking, cooking, shopping or managing their money - usually they have a couple of kids in tow.

Get off your cloud and go spend some time volunteering with the likes of the Salvation Army who already do this kind of work. You would be astonished at the utter lack of ability of some to function and the need for someone to teach them the basic rules that we all live by and the skills needed to survive. Resourcing it properly might head off some of the issues with violence caused by the frustration this causes.

Remember too that this article has be translated into english so some of the wording is likely clumsy.

Topics like this are put up for discussion. A discussion usually has opposing opinions expressed in an attempt to find a workable middle ground, just calling people nazis for bringing the subject to light is pretty fuckin; jackbooted in itself you intolerant arse.

I'd like to know what your solution would be? Maybe just pretend it does not exist?

[James Deuce]

You bastard Paul, you know darn well I qualify. That's just mean! You didn't have to tell everyone!

[Paul in NZ]

You bastard Paul, you know darn well I qualify. That's just mean! You didn't have to tell everyone!

Well you are a bit anti social some days Jim and that last coffee you made me was horrible... Making horrible coffee is actually going to be a capital crime in my new society. Bugger the scum village - straight to the gallows...

Actually - I was hoping you would take the post of 'senior lecturer in resilience'. If it was a sport you would be a champion for sure...

[Banditbandit]

The only part that would worry me is that it might be ME that would be part of the team to 'supervise' them..I do enough of that already...

No No No .. On my scale - you're one of the villagers

[Banditbandit]

However this 'idea' is driven by a problem which is increasingly causing great concern in some countries in Europe. Its not a new thing as there have been countless migrations over the years and historically they can have pretty dire implications for the original residents.

Fuck .. you don't have to go to Europe to see that ... It's happened here exactly as you describe and I'm glad that you recognise the issue !!!

I know this is an Aussie graphic .. but you'll get the point ...

<img src="http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/ozflea/BoatPeople1.jpg" width="400px"/>

[James Deuce]

Actually - I was hoping you would take the post of 'senior lecturer in resilience'. If it was a sport you would be a champion for sure...

I am a human cockroach, though most people probably leave "roach" off the end these days.

[Paul in NZ]

Fuck .. you don't have to go to Europe to see that ... It's happened here exactly as you describe and I'm glad that you recognise the issue !!!

I know this is an Aussie graphic .. but you'll get the point ...

<img src="http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/ozflea/BoatPeople1.jpg" width="400px"/>

exactly - if you had placed all of us in scum villages until we knew how to behave things would be very different...

But thats not quite what the original article was pointing out... so lets treat this as another surprising benefit...

[Paul in NZ]

This is an interesting take on the idea. Its driving home what I was thinking when I read it that the socialist democracies are suddenly coming up with some very right wing policies..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/dec/07/amsterdam-scum-villages-illiberal-europe

I don't think this is the issue though and the purpose of these posts is NOT to suggest that we should build ghettos but rather to spark discussion. I've been reading a bit around this and I am starting to agree with those that suggest this is a sign of a failing democracies. The problem being the democracy isnt so much a political system but a cultural one. Its based on habits, attitudes, divisions of power, belief in the law and an absence of corruption and while you can import these systems and set them up and you cannot impose alien cultures on people - they don't stick and the system fails.

In this case I'm 100% sure that these people are following a well worn path. Everyone from the Catholic Inquisitors to the Chinese Communists justified tyranny and cruelty because their end goals were so lofty and would make the world 'better'.

The democratic wests invasion of the world has generally made things better. People live longer and % wise less people are being killed than ever before even if the total numbers are up. However democracies up until now have sold the idea that this is to build a better world and that our children will be better off than we are. For the first time this is not going to happen.

To summarize. Growth in economic advantage terms for individuals is at best stagnant. Opportunities are limited and the current democratic system does not have the processes built in to cope. Immigration and changing population dynamics are undermining the cultural base of sustainable democracies leading to large parts of 'society' actually being out side of society.

The socialist left is drifting right as it hardens its attitudes or fails to convince people that its goal of a self governed utopia isnt going to happen any time soon and the right is happily drifting even more right but in less numbers.

Meanwhile the middle classes are being swamped and can't hold the upwardly mobile dream any longer. The small acts of kindness stop and we are screwed....

[mashman]

interesting post.

Meanwhile the middle classes are being swamped and can't hold the upwardly mobile dream any longer. The small acts of kindness stop and we are screwed....

or we change and actually make an effort. Ain't gonna happen where money is involved I'm afraid and that's a fact, not a theory.

[scumdog]

or we change and actually make an effort. Ain't gonna happen where money is involved I'm afraid and that's a fact, not a theory.

Money's got fuck all to do with it...$$$ or not a lot of society has lost it's 'nicer' side.

Even in poorer countries.

Why?

Don't ask me....a sign of the times.

[mashman]

Money's got fuck all to do with it...$$$ or not a lot of society has lost it's 'nicer' side.

Even in poorer countries.

Why?

Don't ask me....a sign of the times.

:killingme... hmmmmmm, you raise an excellent point. Tis just a shame that it's the penis sticking out from the top of your head.

I have answered the why... and for the second time today, please refer to my avatar for a further explanation of your post (only the first time was unexpected)

[scumdog]

:killingme... hmmmmmm, you raise an excellent point. Tis just a shame that it's the penis sticking out from the top of your head.

I have answered the why... and for the second time today, please refer to my avatar for a further explanation of your post (only the first time was unexpected)

Explain to my why, my eyes are open...

Only in the same number of words that I have failed to explain why.

(I haven't got 300 years to read the likely reply..)

[mashman]

Explain to my why, my eyes are open...

Only in the same number of words that I have failed to explain why.

(I haven't got 300 years to read the likely reply..)

:rofl: fair enough. We are protective of what we have "earned". If that is under constant threat, then people will react in a protective manner. The trust is lost. If there's trust there's less reason to be protective and people will become "nicer" again.

[Deano]

If being a 'scum' is genuinely a lifestyle choice, fuck em all!

[Brian d marge]

Money's got fuck all to do with it...$$$ or not a lot of society has lost it's 'nicer' side.

Even in poorer countries.

Why?

Don't ask me....a sign of the times.
Sorry but money and the Friedman economics has everything to do with it
Even down to impolite , bad driving etc
When you marginalise people , the ideas , rules which they the people justify their existence change
Examples , gangs , teens ,
Read
Five families , a case study ,,, where they studied marginalised people
You and others can dismiss it but that's exactly what is happening in NZ. , to a tee
A small group is doing well due to their ability to move large amounts of money around ,
A large chunk are middle class and are just OK ( people who had an education and had bought into the housing market pre 1980 ish )
And the rest marginalised
I'm on the train and have no access to my notes so can't tell you the ratios
It will only get worse until you start to address the following
Speculation on housing , basic education reversing the perceived social norms such as dietary ,work etc
Removal of taxes on fruit and vege and increasing it on processed )
Stop using the "Jewish" solution in order to promote an ideal ( the unemployed and single mothers are the reason NZ economy is struggling )
Sorry if this isn't very clear , its a complex thing to define clearly in a few words , I might spend a few moments to write it clearly then add to notes or cut and paste
Anyway the solution is already known ( and applied in some other country's ) trouble is it doesn't fit with the Americans foreign policy's
Stephen

[Ocean1]

:rofl: fair enough. We are protective of what we have "earned". If that is under constant threat, then people will react in a protective manner. The trust is lost. If there's trust there's less reason to be protective and people will become "nicer" again.

I'll "trust" people when they give me less reason to be protective of what I've earned. In the meantime if I find your fingers near my earnings I'll kick your arse. You might have noticed there's no funny dots an' shit arount the EARNED, that's because the word is being used correctly.


If being a 'scum' is genuinely a lifestyle choice, fuck em all!

I'd be happy to leave them to fuck themselves, as long as they leave my shit alone.

[mashman]

I'll "trust" people when they give me less reason to be protective of what I've earned. In the meantime if I find your fingers near my earnings I'll kick your arse. You might have noticed there's no funny dots an' shit arount the EARNED, that's because the word is being used correctly.

Thank you for illustrating my point.

[Ocean1]

Thank you for illustrating my point.

Pfft. If anyone actually agreed with you they wouldn't be wanting their own money let alone mine.

[mashman]

Pfft. If anyone actually agreed with you they wouldn't be wanting their own money let alone mine.

Again, thanks for proving my point. Would you still do what you do? or do you only do it for the money?

[scumdog]

NO money? = existing..

Money? = LIVING!

[mashman]

NO money? = existing..

Money? = LIVING!

Why?.......

Edit: I'd say that the exact opposite would be true.

[Ocean1]

Again, thanks for proving my point. Would you still do what you do? or do you only do it for the money?

You don't have a point, you have a blur.

The money I make represents the value others see in my work. I try to make sure they see lots of value, that way I get to spend a fair bit of time doing things that only I see much value in.

Much as I'd love to spend all my time doing worthless shit I'm not foolish enough to believe it's a viable career.

[scumdog]

Why?.......

Edit: I'd say that the exact opposite would be true.

Money - you have the option, exist or live.

No money and you don't have such a large range of options.

I've been on both sides of the fence - and I still don't have tons of $$$...but at least I have a window of living...

[mashman]

You don't have a point, you have a blur.

The money I make represents the value others see in my work. I try to make sure they see lots of value, that way I get to spend a fair bit of time doing things that only I see much value in.

Much as I'd love to spend all my time doing worthless shit I'm not foolish enough to believe it's a viable career.

ha... I have crystal clear vision tyvm.

Fair enough, the unreal world needs us to volunteer on such a basis :shifty:

Worthless? Like what? Aye, I guess we need to pay the bills.

[mashman]

Money - you have the option, exist or live.

No money and you don't have such a large range of options.

I've been on both sides of the fence - and I still don't have tons of $$$...but at least I have a window of living...

Fair enough, have been in the "hole" myself... but you're still looking at no money in the context of a financial system. If the financial system didn't exist, what would stop you from doing exactly the same things that you do now? Potentially more frequently too :yes:

[scumdog]

Fair enough, have been in the "hole" myself... but you're still looking at no money in the context of a financial system. If the financial system didn't exist, what would stop you from doing exactly the same things that you do now? Potentially more frequently too :yes:

Hmm, how else would I have my own house and land, overseas travel, classic cars and Harleys??
(I'm the kind of guy who stretches the budget paper thing, nothing left for friperies..)

My lowest ebb was $635 for a calender month when I had two small kids, a mrs and a mortgage, tough going.


And you want me to exist with ZERO $$?

[Deano]

Fair enough, have been in the "hole" myself... but you're still looking at no money in the context of a financial system. If the financial system didn't exist, what would stop you from doing exactly the same things that you do now? Potentially more frequently too :yes:

I too have been in a hole, no money, no prospects. Personally, much happier now I have dug myself out of that hole. Productive member of society and all that.

Own my home, no mortgage, I'm racing, kids have quad and MX bike. Fuck living in a hole of no education, no decent income, being negative about life.

What would stop me from doing all of these things....think I have summed it up already. I don't agree with fuck all that you say, but each to their own. Keep knocking the system Mashman, I don't agree with a lot of 'the system' but see how far it gets you.

[scumdog]

I too have been in a hole, no money, no prospects. Personally, much happier now I have dug myself out of that hole. Productive member of society and all that.

Own my home, no mortgage, I'm racing, kids have quad and MX bike. Fuck living in a hole of no education, no decent income, being negative about life.

But think of how much happier you would be if you you had no money....

[mashman]

Hmm, how else would I have my own house and land, overseas travel, classic cars and Harleys??
(I'm the kind of guy who stretches the budget paper thing, nothing left for friperies..)

My lowest ebb was $635 for a calender month when I had two small kids, a mrs and a mortgage, tough going.


And you want me to exist with ZERO $$?

Are people going to stop doing these things because money doesn't exist?

I guess my lowest ebb was scratching down the back of the sofa for the nappy money 1.20 pound, living on chip butties, walking to and from Uni (8 mile round trip) and not having smokes to accompany my journey, well none of my own. Amazing how far dog ends go :laugh:.

Live, LIVE on zero :). Your overseas travel will be covered. If you like classic cars etc... and someone is parting with one, it'll be obtained for free, same with the bikes etc... perhaps we'll swap them amongst ourselves :shit:. We did it hard, but it's getting harder and I see no reason for it to be so if the outcome is shit people. Not saying shit people won't exist, but there'll be less reasons for them to be shit and they'll be easier to spot and deal with.

[mashman]

I too have been in a hole, no money, no prospects. Personally, much happier now I have dug myself out of that hole. Productive member of society and all that.

Own my home, no mortgage, I'm racing, kids have quad and MX bike. Fuck living in a hole of no education, no decent income, being negative about life.

What would stop me from doing all of these things....think I have summed it up already. I don't agree with fuck all that you say, but each to their own. Keep knocking the system Mashman, I don't agree with a lot of 'the system' but see how far it gets you.

Fair point. Character building right? Reckon you would have turned out much differenter if you hadn't have had the hard bits? For me, on reflection, nah, fuckin painful and it needn't have been. I coulda fed my kid better, I coulda spent more time with him instead of studying and working to pay the bills and not having any time left.

Be great if everyone had the same choices, but they don't, not even close. Not bagging you having worked hard etc... but I'm certainly not going to pretend that everyone is as strong, as capable, as able, as driven etc... as you and the same opportunities are fewer and further between.

:rofl:@knocking the system. If it was a bike, it wouldn't have made it off the design table. It's FUBAR at best. But sure, fuckers deserve their position in life eh, it's the best that can be done, we'll get ours, fuck'em. Once upon a time I'd have agreed with you, but not no more. Each to their own.

[Deano]

Are people going to stop doing these things because money doesn't exist?



Yes, yes they are. I call BS dude. How can you travel overseas with no money? No don't even try to answer that cause I call BS.

Try doing everything I have stated above without money. Unless you are a crim, or complete bludger, or both.

[mashman]

Yes, yes they are. I call BS dude. How can you travel overseas with no money? No don't even try to answer that cause I call BS.

Try doing everything I have stated above without money. Unless you are a crim, or complete bludger, or both.

Ya see, I'm not saying that NZ wouldn't still be earning money. So you can call BS, I have no issue with that.

[Deano]

Fair point. Character building right? Reckon you would have turned out much differenter if you hadn't have had the hard bits? For me, on reflection, nah, fuckin painful and it needn't have been. I coulda fed my kid better, I coulda spent more time with him instead of studying and working to pay the bills and not having any time left.

Be great if everyone had the same choices, but they don't, not even close. Not bagging you having worked hard etc... but I'm certainly not going to pretend that everyone is as strong, as capable, as able, as driven etc... as you and the same opportunities are fewer and further between.

:rofl:@knocking the system. If it was a bike, it wouldn't have made it off the design table. It's FUBAR at best. But sure, fuckers deserve their position in life eh, it's the best that can be done, we'll get ours, fuck'em. Once upon a time I'd have agreed with you, but not no more. Each to their own.

I have learnt from youthful mistakes and would be a lot better off now than we are now, had I made better choices when I was younger. Nuff said I think.

[scumdog]

Are people going to stop doing these things because money doesn't exist?


Live, LIVE on zero :). Your overseas travel will be covered. If you like classic cars etc... and someone is parting with one, it'll be obtained for free, same with the bikes etc... perhaps we'll swap them amongst ourselves :shit:. .

I tMAY work - but time is money and the time it would take for your idea to bear fruit woud be about 1000 years.

Money makes it happen while I am still living.

Materialistic?

Hell yeah!!

Who would 'benefit' if I wasn't so materialistic??




If it wasn't for people like me there would be nothing to compare to, we would all be equally 'poor'. (or 'rich' if you're mashman).

[mashman]

I have learnt from youthful mistakes and would be a lot better off now than we are now, had I made better choices when I was younger. Nuff said I think.

Fair enough, we've all got things we're not proud of under out belts... I doubt money existing or not would have mattered in that respect, which is kinda the point I was trying to make.

[mashman]

I tMAY work - but time is money and the time it would take for your idea to bear fruit woud be about 1000 years.

Money makes it happen while I am still living.

Materialistic?

Hell yeah!!

Who would 'benefit' if I wasn't so materialistic??

If it wasn't for people like me there would be nothing to compare to, we would all be equally 'poor'. (or 'rich' if you're mashman).

I reckon it'll take less than a generation. Quite possibly less than 10 years. Quite possibly even less. Ever hopeful maybe, but iffen we're going to do it, it would just be done and we'd have to live with it. If the rest of world see it working in NZ, you reckon they might just drop the way they're doing things and join in. If it would work that is :)

Very true. Not disputing that at all. Just concerned that it will continue that way and my kids end up in the shit because of someone else's bad investment.

heh...

Everyone and noone. It kinda depends on what you mean by materialistic.

:rofl: essentially yes. No poverty for starters, less crime and more time for scummy to do scummy stuff.

Off to airport to get Mum.

[Brian d marge]

Why?.......

Edit: I'd say that the exact opposite would be true.

Voltaire in his book " Candide" came to the very solution

Now all I need to do is get me go go Juice for the bike , from a " free" source preferably renewable

anyone willing to swap a dozen eggs for an old Lister diesel engine?

Stephen

[mashman]

Voltaire in his book " Candide" came to the very solution

Now all I need to do is get me go go Juice for the bike , from a " free" source preferably renewable

anyone willing to swap a dozen eggs for an old Lister diesel engine?

Stephen

If I was ever going to read, that sounds like it might be quite an interesting book.

I thought you'd be pissing liquid strong enough to run an engine after the last week :)

[Brian d marge]

If I was ever going to read, that sounds like it might be quite an interesting book.

I thought you'd be pissing liquid strong enough to run an engine after the last week :)

Have 2 more weeks to go...got very messy Sunday

Stephen