The new iTunes [Archive] - Kiwi Biker forums

bogan

10th December 2012, 18:36

had to install it to find out "what chu on bout willis" (Not a small package either). I see they've changed the black note to a silver one, Looks like they've simplified the operation (made it smoother/faster), cover flow looks to be gone?, & the mini player seems pretty good
Looks to be a pretty good improvement over the last in all

Yeh, it looks like they've abandoned the wanky cover flow in favor of just thumnails for every album in the album browser. Having the 'whats next' pop out of the mini player is handy too. And having multiple columns for the song listing per album is better too. Seems they have focused on effective space utilisation; and just when I ordered a massive screen too :rolleyes:

Usarka

10th December 2012, 18:41

Is it made by a facist cunting corporation?

Hitcher

10th December 2012, 18:45

It's still way too hard. One has to download special software from Apple to run it. The update tool for this wants you then to download and install everything else Apple thinks makes good sense.

You can't run multiple accounts on one PC, it insists on classifying music into things called "genres". Fuck it. Buy an Android.

bogan

10th December 2012, 19:04

Is it made by a facist cunting corporation?

It's still way too hard. One has to download special software from Apple to run it. The update tool for this wants you then to download and install everything else Apple thinks makes good sense.

You can't run multiple accounts on one PC, it insists on classifying music into things called "genres". Fuck it. Buy an Android.

Oh look, its the wombles, they took longer than expected :lol:

The corporation is no more evil than any other, they are however much more successful than most.

Oh no! Not downloading special software to run a new program! Though I'm at a loss to think of an easier way to get new programs?

Its gotten just as easy to untick and exclude quicktime and any other products apple wants you to have. Much like unticking chrome when downloading things from google.

Pretty sure you can run multiple accounts if you have mutliple users on your PC.

Genres is actually a handy way of browsing your music types, and if you don't like it you don't click the little 40x16 pixel button.

...next?

The Lone Rider

15th December 2012, 19:45

Scuba_Steve

15th December 2012, 20:41

The Lone Rider

15th December 2012, 21:06

yep

Are you 100% sure? I dont wanna pay for an album and not fuckin be able to use it.

Scuba_Steve

15th December 2012, 21:29

Are you 100% sure? I dont wanna pay for an album and not fuckin be able to use it.

I won't say 100% simply because I've never brought from iTunes myself, I'll go with a 96%

But here is a Macworld article saying as much
(http://www.macworld.com/article/1138000/drm_faq.html)

And Apple itself also mentioning it (http://support.apple.com/kb/PH12304)

"All songs offered by the iTunes Store now come without DRM protection. These DRM-free songs, called iTunes Plus, have no usage restrictions and feature high-quality 256 kbps AAC encoding."

Sable

16th December 2012, 01:24

iTunes is a pile of steaming shit and the only reason you should use it is if you have to connect with an iPod or iPhone (more proprietary lockout shit).

madandy

16th December 2012, 07:21

iTunes is a pile of steaming shit and the only reason you should use it is if you have to connect with an iPod or iPhone (more proprietary lockout shit).

Care to reccommend better?
Have heard Spotify is pretty good.

bogan

16th December 2012, 08:42

Care to reccommend better?
Have heard Spotify is pretty good.

Not sure what the spotify client is like (or if they have one), they are a streaming music service you need to subscribe to so not all that comparable to itunes.
Seems to me like the two would work well in conjunction, listen to some albums on spotify, then buy them and keep them through itunes.

Usarka

16th December 2012, 09:12

Does anyone know if mp3s I pay for and download through itunes, can be played outside of the itunes software?

For instance, could I burn the downloaded album to CD? Or play the files in WinAmp? Or on my phone?

I would like to buy an album off there, but not if I can only play it via itunes software, or for a limited time outside of the itunes software.

Apart from the old DRM you need to be careful about what format it is in.

MP3 is fairly ubiquitous - it works on most devices. But some of the music on itunes is in apples proprietary format which won't work on a lot of non-apple gear.

As far as I can work out it's a lottery as to which format you get. And yes you can get programs to convert formats, but converting from one "lossy" format to another worsens the quality.

Fuck itunes.

Sable

16th December 2012, 09:31

The Lone Rider

16th December 2012, 09:33

Yeah I know about audio technology. Professional sound engineer for many years.

Just had no idea what I was getting if I purchased from itunes.

bogan

16th December 2012, 09:42

WinAmp is great for music, plays more or less every audio format under the sun, has a CD ripping module based on LAME and syncs with some iStuff. UI takes a little getting used to but other than that, brilliant.

So other than a few problems with the UI WinAmp is good? That was pretty much my evaluation of it the last itme I used it too. Since the UI is the only bit I deal with, that is kind of important to me, which is why I've gone with the better UI which is iTunes. An of course it also does all the other things I like suck as organising my library and syncing with my ipod, playing all the formats I can throw at it...

The funny thing I've noticed with the iHaters, they are just as mindless as the iFollowers when it comes to defending their position :laugh:

SMOKEU

16th December 2012, 10:10

Winamp is great, I like the old skool skin that they've been having for the past fuck knows how many years. It's a light program with a small footprint and no bloatware.

Music can be obtained here (http://thepiratebay.se/).

AllanB

16th December 2012, 17:03

I've had no issues with I-tunes song transfer to non Apple phones. I've my i-tunes set to convert to MP3.

What could be easier than fireing it up, searching for the song you want and then paying piss all for it?

SMOKEU

16th December 2012, 17:30

What could be easier than fireing it up, searching for the song you want and then paying piss all for it?

Downloading the free torrent, otherwise you have to work for your money (I'm assuming), which is a whole lot harder than torrenting. Also, it's too tedious to download a song or an album at a time, that's why all those free discographies are the way to go. Get hundreds of songs in one hit.

Sable

16th December 2012, 18:54

Taking a single song rather than an album as a whole? Plebes.

Headbanger

17th December 2012, 20:08

Care to reccommend better?

Copy/paste.

Select>play/play selection/add to playlist

Play all.

Surely you don't actually require mulitple layers of wankery and restrictions to get between you and your sub-standard audio tracks?

Headbanger

17th December 2012, 20:13

Yeah I know about audio technology. Professional sound engineer for many years.

Just had no idea what I was getting if I purchased from itunes.

Funny thing, My boss lost his laptop, work got him a new one, he installed itunes, plugged in his ipod, It gave notice that his ipod could only be synced to one PC at a time, then it " synced" to his new setup by wiping the entire contents of his iwank.

Laugh?

Oh yes I did, Thats what you get when you buy into the apple way,, Even funnier was that he was looking to get the songs that made up his playlist for his wedding, All gone now lad, start over.

Ispank was destroyed with a heavy hammer and remnants thrown in the wastebasket.

Usarka

17th December 2012, 20:28

Funny thing, My boss lost his laptop, work got him a new one, he installed itunes, plugged in his ipod, It gave notice that his ipod could only be synced to one PC at a time, then it " synced" to his new setup by wiping the entire contents of his iwank.

Laugh?

Oh yes I did, Thats what you get when you buy into the apple way,, Even funnier was that he was looking to get the songs that made up his playlist for his wedding, All gone now lad, start over.

Ispank was destroyed with a heavy hammer and remnants thrown in the wastebasket.

But apple is so awesome and i love it cause it's shiny and new and i have to buy a new one every 8 months else everyone thinks I'm stink!

Scuba_Steve

17th December 2012, 20:40

Funny thing, My boss lost his laptop, work got him a new one, he installed itunes, plugged in his ipod, It gave notice that his ipod could only be synced to one PC at a time, then it " synced" to his new setup by wiping the entire contents of his iwank.

Laugh?

Oh yes I did, Thats what you get when you buy into the apple way,, Even funnier was that he was looking to get the songs that made up his playlist for his wedding, All gone now lad, start over.

Ispank was destroyed with a heavy hammer and remnants thrown in the wastebasket.

Damm straight! we should blame Apple for a user so retarded they can't work out the message claiming everything on the iPod will be removed actually means EVERYTHING ON THE IPOD WILL BE REMOVED who would've thought ay?
While we're at it why don't we blame MS when upgrading OS's & choosing "clean install" instead of "upgrade" only to find none of our stuff left, after all the user's never to blame :rolleyes:

bogan

17th December 2012, 20:45

Funny thing, My boss lost his laptop, work got him a new one, he installed itunes, plugged in his ipod, It gave notice that his ipod could only be synced to one PC at a time, then it " synced" to his new setup by wiping the entire contents of his iwank.

Laugh?

Oh yes I did, Thats what you get when you buy into the apple way,, Even funnier was that he was looking to get the songs that made up his playlist for his wedding, All gone now lad, start over.

Ispank was destroyed with a heavy hammer and remnants thrown in the wastebasket.

Most of us learn the value of backing up computer files at some point...

Though that did used to be a known issue with the syncing software I believe they have it all fixed now. Those parts were designed to inhibit the sharing of music to people who had not purchased it, which is given less of an emphasis now... and they did put in warning messages...

Kendog

17th December 2012, 20:57

We swapped onto another computer recently and didn't lose all our songs in iTunes.
I guess we followed the onscreen prompts.

Headbanger

17th December 2012, 21:05

Damm straight! we should blame Apple for a user so retarded they can't work out the message claiming everything on the iPod will be removed actually means EVERYTHING ON THE IPOD WILL BE REMOVED who would've thought ay?
While we're at it why don't we blame MS when upgrading OS's & choosing "clean install" instead of "upgrade" only to find none of our stuff left, after all the user's never to blame :rolleyes:

He went with it as it was the only available option, so lets blame Apple for giving him one single useless cunt face option.

When you use Apple, then you are forced to do things the apple way, And when the apple way is retarded (as has long been the level of retard built into itunes) then who the fuck would you blame?...santa clause?

For the record, Plenty of third party recovery installs on Windows machines have only given the option for a format and install, and fuck yes, That's a shitbag move all of its own. Whose to blame?...the fucknut who green lighted the shit software.

Headbanger

17th December 2012, 21:10

Most of us learn the value of backing up computer files at some point...

Though that did used to be a known issue with the syncing software I believe they have it all fixed now. Those parts were designed to inhibit the sharing of music to people who had not purchased it, which is given less of an emphasis now... and they did put in warning messages...

how many levels of backup are acceptable to get around apples douchbaggery?

wait, it doesn't matter, the same process would have happened as soon as he tried to hook into any device that wasn't his missing laptop..

Your point fails. Why the hell would anyone want their audio files wrapped in apples layers of shit, there is no single benifit of doing so.

Next.

Headbanger

17th December 2012, 21:15

We swapped onto another computer recently and didn't lose all our songs in iTunes.
I guess we followed the onscreen prompts.

You feel the need to point out that you managed a simple operation without getting fucked over by apple?

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

bogan

17th December 2012, 21:31

how many levels of backup are acceptable to get around apples douchbaggery?

wait, it doesn't matter, the same process would have happened as soon as he tried to hook into any device that wasn't his missing laptop..

Your point fails. Why the hell would anyone want their audio files wrapped in apples layers of shit, there is no single benifit of doing so.

Next.

They were protecting the copyright of the music, I'm not sure that fits the douchbaggery label. Backup between two easily stealable devices is not enough levels, the real douchbags would love to steal both of them.

I realise protecting music from being copied in such a way is considered overkill by most. But at the time cloud computing wasn't mainstream, and neither was online music shops. The later may well have meant they had to implement overkill copy protection to set up the itunes store.

Funny thing is though, the thread title clearly state the new itunes, so banging on about their past failing is like despising windows 7 because 3.1 didn't have bluetooth.

Headbanger

17th December 2012, 21:39

They were protecting the copyright of the music, I'm not sure that fits the douchbaggery label.

Yeah, Your still suffering the same level of fail as before.

The point is that you are needlessly handing control of your files, on your hardware, to apple, and its now subject to whatever choices they make, not you.

Itunes has never been about making a good product or the end user, its always been about locking the content into apple devices, and the customers money into apple revenue streams.

And by doing so the use an incredible amount of resources to do something the os does natively, and cripple the most basic and worthwhile file handling systems.

And to top it off they install shittime, updaters, network services, start up items and all manner of other shit spread all over and into the OS that lowers the end users experience and which doesn't get removed via the uninstall process.

What the fuck are they and their fans smoking?

Program is and always has been pointless and utter shit. Even when the end user doesn't understand they have been fucked over.

Kendog

17th December 2012, 21:48

You feel the need to point out that you managed a simple operation without getting fucked over by apple?

:laugh::laugh::laugh:
You make me laugh.

bogan

17th December 2012, 21:51

Yeah, Your still suffering the same level of fail as before.

The point is that you are needlessly handing control of your files, on your hardware, to apple, and its now subject to whatever choices they make, not you.

Itunes has never been about making a good product or the end user, its always been about locking the content into apple devices, and the customers money into apple revenue streams.

And by doing so the use an incredible amount of resources to do something the os does natively, and cripple the most basic and worthwhile file handling systems.

And to top it off they install shittime, updaters, network services, start up and all manner of other shit that lowers the end users experience and which doesn't get removed via the uninstall process..

What the fuck are they and their fans smoking?

Program is and always has been pointless and utter shit. Even when the end user doesn't understand they have been fucked over.

I'll educate you a bit, as you still seem to be way back at itunes 5 or similar.

It organises all your audio files (in whatever format they were in, or that you choose) into any folder you specify on your computer. If you do not want it to organise the files you just untick a box, I think it asks you during the instal too. You can still copy the files to other device through windows explorer, or play them using a different program.

I've been on the same ipod for around 7 years now, some would consider that good value for money, and have bought albums through itunes cheaper than anywhere else, but more importantly, itunes actually caters to my apparently not popular in NZ music tastes. And if you're a pirater, you can do that and use those files in itunes too.

On older comps it does use lots of resources, but so do a lot of programs these days, thats why they make new comps.

Quicktime is gone from the installer now, startup services help it start up quicker, which as a music program I like it to start quickly. again, fuck all overhead for me cos I have comps less than 5 years old.

Its the audio player with the best user interface I've used, makes it easy and fast to find files, nice visuals with the album artworks etc, now a very nice 'playing next' playlist you can simply customise what songs are coming up.

If you want something hard to steal, with very very low computing overheads, but a somewhat slow and cumbersome user interface, they used to put music on these round discy things...

Edit, and all this without even mentioning (until now) the benefits of cloud music storage, which is arguably the best theft/fire etc loss prevention method.

Headbanger

17th December 2012, 22:03

I'll educate you a bit, .

Well, no, You failed miserably, The philosohy and nature of the program is as it always been, The fact they tweak it from time to time doesn't make the fact you "like the interface" an honest appraisal of its level or depth of shitiness.

Futhermore the reference to resources isn't in relation to hardware capability, But how many resources the app is using on any system to do fuck all of nothing apart from be a wanker.

That said, those silver spinning things are far better quality and value for money (even though they too are a massive rort) then the shit apple are selling you, how the fuck does that make you clever?

You buy something worse therefor mock that which is a better format?

oh right, its apple.

Im going to spin some vinyl.

Play it through my amp thats two decades old.

Powering a set of speakers that are nearly as tall as I am.

Fuck any shitty pathetic 7 year old ipod.

People need to know what they are buying into.

Fuck itunes, fuck it up the arse.

I have spoken.

bogan

17th December 2012, 22:18

Well, no, You failed miserably

Well, figured I would give it a shot. As I've said for many years now, the biggest impediment to learning is often the ego... funny how that can even get in the way of such simple things like software evaluation and selection. As I've also said for a while, the apple haters are often just a clueless as the apple fanboys.
You've proven me right twice in one evening, now that I have achieved my lofty goal for the day—of being correct on the internet—I can retire until the morrow.

Headbanger

18th December 2012, 00:36

SMOKEU

18th December 2012, 06:53

bogan

18th December 2012, 06:56

I didn't expect for a second that I'd change your view on a software suite that is to your liking, But I hope at the very least that people are slightly more informed about the nature of itunes.

As it is all files are cataloged, ordered and displayed by the OS to the users choosing, and can be played directly from their location in any media player, or you can have all the files referenced within any number of media players and linked to playlists of multiple formats, all without locking your media into Apple, all without having your ability to handle your media controlled by apple, all without unwanted and undesirable network services being installed and running in the background.

I find it hard to accept that anyone of intelligence would actively recommend itunes to anyone, (Apple twats obviously excluded, But their ego gets in the way and is directly manipulated by wanker marketing, delusion and bullshit)

How do you mean locking your media into apple? those days are done, sure the songs are downloaded in m4a format when an album is purchased, but they are useable by the other programs and can be referenced in any number of media players from the location apple puts them in.
And a lot of OS categorised stuff which is to the users choosing is a mess, with albums in the same folder as artists, in the same folder as individual songs; obviously a user fault, but one that itunes fixes easily provided the tags are present.

It seems you really only have two arguments, you don't like apple (which is actually just an opinion, not an argument), and that it uses system resources. Currently I have iTuneshelper, which is the startup helper, using 4meg of ram (0.03%) and 0% CPU. Now I started it up (in about 1 second, thanks itunes helper) the main process is using 61meg of ram (0.4%) and still 0% CPU. Interestingly, vlc is using 1% CPU and 17meg of ram (0.1%) to do the same task, it did shave about half a second off the startup time though. To put those numbers in perspective, the only time I'd want to free up those resources is during a benchmark test (and I still wouldn't bother stopping the startup service), and as the clocks are down to idle speed it won't be wasting power or causing component wear.

So yeh, it has the best UI, and no real-world downsides, it'd be stupid not to recomend it. Of course not everybody uses a media player the same way I do so its worth seeing if it has the device compatibility etc for what others want, just like choosing other things these days.

bogan

18th December 2012, 06:58

If people are too fucking retarded to copy and paste data to/from their computer/MP3 player, then they have no business using those devices in the first place. Trust iSheep to come up with the most complicated solution for the simplest tasks. Bloatware for the sake of it.

Hmmm, so plug in and walk away is now more complicated than plug-in, browse folders, copy files, make sure you're not making duplicates, walk away? :confused:

See my above post for the bloatwear issue...

SMOKEU

18th December 2012, 07:25

Hmmm, so plug in and walk away is now more complicated than plug-in, browse folders, copy files, make sure you're not making duplicates, walk away? :confused:

Pretty much. I just hold down ctrl, highlight which folders I want on my computer, hit ctrl + c and then ctrl + v to put them on the device. If someone is smart enough to post on an online forum, they're smart enough to copy and paste. Really, how hard is it?

I like to keep things simple as complicated shit is too trippy.

bogan

18th December 2012, 07:37

Pretty much. I just hold down ctrl, highlight which folders I want on my computer, hit ctrl + c and then ctrl + v to put them on the device. If someone is smart enough to post on an online forum, they're smart enough to copy and paste. Really, how hard is it?

I like to keep things simple as complicated shit is too trippy.

Of course it's simple, so why bother wasting time on it? It's much quicker and easier (you don't have to remember which albums are copied and which are not yet) to automate the process with iTunes. With all the hardware and software around to makes things easier and faster, I just don't see why you would want to do it the slow way?

Scuba_Steve

18th December 2012, 07:59

I didn't expect for a second that I'd change your view on a software suite that is to your liking, But I hope at the very least that people are slightly more informed about the nature of itunes.

I hope you don't think you're the one doing the informing??? Bogans at least pushing out some facts, all you're pushing is blind hatred and ignorance.

Headbanger

18th December 2012, 10:26

I hope you don't think you're the one doing the informing??? Bogans at least pushing out some facts, all you're pushing is blind hatred and ignorance.

Take from it what you will, there is no trace of hatred in my posts.

Apple fans can't see the program for what it is, They never have.

Carry on.

Headbanger

18th December 2012, 10:33

How do you mean locking your media into apple? those days are done,

Yeah, That ipod getting wiped due to license restrictions on non-apple sourced media was about 5 weeks ago.

:crazy:

bogan

18th December 2012, 10:51

Take from it what you will, there is no trace of hatred in my posts.

Apple fans can't see the program for what it is, They never have.

Carry on.

There's little trace of facts either, might be why you're having such difficulty explaining what is wrong with the program without resorting to the 'apple is shit' opinions.

Yeah, That ipod getting wiped due to license restrictions on non-apple sourced media was about 5 weeks ago.

:crazy:

Thats not actually license restriction, its the way the ipod was setup to sync with one computer automatically, and the user ignoring warning messages when it synced to a new (presumably empty) computer. It actually has nothing to do with your claims of itunes locking media into apple, especially considering even that feature is easily turned off and prompted about on setup.

Got any facts yet? while I could probably do this all day—using the time I've already saved due to my superior software choice for media organisation and portable device management—there might be more productive endeavors that should be given a higher priority...

Headbanger

18th December 2012, 11:25

There's little trace of facts either, might be why you're having such difficulty explaining what is wrong with the program without resorting to the 'apple is shit' opinions.

Thats not actually license restriction, its the way the ipod was setup to sync with one computer automatically, and the user ignoring warning messages when it synced to a new (presumably empty) computer. It actually has nothing to do with your claims of itunes locking media into apple, especially considering even that feature is easily turned off and prompted about on setup.

Got any facts yet? while I could probably do this all day—using the time I've already saved due to my superior software choice for media organisation and portable device management—there might be more productive endeavors that should be given a higher priority...

What that is, is a negative user experience, bought on by poor design and the apple mentality. pray tell what the options are in the event of losing access to the initial pc?

Now, Im not about to infect my pc with itunes just to see what backgound items and network services it installs against my wishes (and I wouldn't recommend anyone does s0), in order to have a bloated wanky interface laid get between me and my music files that insists on running just to make access to a portable device easier by crippling copy/paste.:eek5:

oh wait, thats its good points.

bogan

18th December 2012, 11:39

What that is, is a negative user experience, bought on by poor design and the apple mentality. pray tell what the options are in the event of losing access to the initial pc?

Well the obvious point is that you should back-up to something less stealable anyway. There are workarounds to get the music back off the device as well, not as easy as it should be, but it can be done. Also, if you've paid for the songs through iTunes store, they are linked to your account so you just download them again.

Now, Im not about to infect my pc with itunes just to see what backgound items and network services it installs against my wishes (and I wouldn't recommend anyone does s0), in order to have a bloated wanky interface laid get between me and my music files that insists on running just to make access to a portable device easier by crippling copy/paste.:eek5:

But you'll happily spread the word that those background services use up enough resources to.. um, do what exaclty? why should you care if it takes a tiny portion of RAM or CPU? It's there for the using.

oh wait, thats its good points.

Exactly, some people like that stuff, so again your arguments just boil down to the opinionated rubbish attempted to be passed off as fact. You seem to be making a habit of this...

Scuba_Steve

18th December 2012, 11:42

What that is, is a negative user experience, bought on by poor design and the apple mentality. pray tell what the options are in the event of losing access to the initial pc?

Now, Im not about to infect my pc with itunes just to see what backgound items and network services it installs against my wishes (and I wouldn't recommend anyone does s0), in order to have a bloated wanky interface laid get between me and my music files that insists on running just to make access to a portable device easier by crippling copy/paste.:eek5:

oh wait, thats its good points.

well in loss of initial PC if they're hell bent on keeping auto sync enabled, their option is to re-rip their CD's to iTunes & re-download any brought from the iTunes store, then everything is returned to previous state no harm no fowl.
If by "poor design" you mean it's not pirate friendly then yes, Apple don't really have any interest in assisting pirates, incase you haven't noticed they run a store which makes them money it's not in their interest to cannibalise their own profit is it? Just like any company. But even so re-pirate the songs just like before & everything goes back to as it was

And as you've proved you're just like a fanboy running on emotional rant with no real facts as you've admitted you don't even run it, but hey you've probably read fanboy/antiboy rants on the interwebs so you must be an expert right :rolleyes:

Headbanger

18th December 2012, 11:49

Cool, took you guys far too long to write your reply's btw, I haven't got all day....I can't say it was worth the wait.

That aside, against my better judgement I installed it. :weep: granted its not quite as ugly as past versions

During setup mdnsesponder otherwise known as bonjour installed and accessed my connection,nice
Apple mobile device installed and accessed my connections
Itunes helped done the same.
and finally itunes itself, which immediately tried to access my connection.

Under services we now have

Bonjour
mobile device
ipod service

Startup items

apsdaemon
itunes helper.

None of which are desirable to have running, and no doubt turning them off cripples itunes, for no reason except apple wants them running.

bogan

18th December 2012, 11:51

None of which are desirable to have running

Why not?

Was I quick enough that time?

Headbanger

18th December 2012, 12:03

Why not?

Was I quick enough that time?

Because none of them notified the user of what they were doing or what their purpose is, None of them are required for the operation of the program, and multiple items in startup/services can lead to poor performance and an unstable OS,causing a...wait for it,negative user experience.

Gremlin

18th December 2012, 12:06

Headbanger

18th December 2012, 12:09

Clearly you aren't "quite" the target market for Apple. You're meant to shut up, (unless saying they're awesome) and be happy it works.

Just wait till Apple thinks you should have Quicktime too. Of course, Apple knows what's best for you. :yes:

On a positive note, Apple now have a marketing portal on my pc and direct communication with my system, and I can playback media files in an otherwise pointless media player.

How did I ever get along without this before?

I supose I can load some media on my iphone while I have itunes installed (seeing as that uber device is incapable of copy/paste) and give it to the kids as a toy.

Pity I didnt image the system before infecting it, God knows what will be left behind by the apple uninstaller.

Scuba_Steve

18th December 2012, 12:12

Because none of them notified the user of what they were doing or what their purpose is, None of them are required the operation of the program, and multiple items in startup/services can lead to poor performance and an unstable OS,causing a...wait for it,negative user experience.

Yea because it's so common for all software vendors to name & explain every service installed with their software :facepalm:
Did you complain this much when Windows installed notepad, windows update, windows firewall, IE, Outlook, task manager etc all without your permission??? Or was that alright because they weren't Apple???

bogan

18th December 2012, 12:16

Because none of them notified the user of what they were doing or what their purpose is, None of them are required for the operation of the program, and multiple items in startup/services can lead to poor performance and an unstable OS,causing a...wait for it,negative user experience.

How much of the EULA did you read? If you're so pedantic as to care what all the services are about you might want to read that in its entirety.
95% of users won't care what the individual services are for, a legit program installed them and if the developer thought them necessary thats good enough for me (and the 95%).

A poor startup/services configuration can lead to poor performance, the chances of the few iTunes ones doing so on anything but an ancient computer seem very unlikey, and even then it will be a straw that broke the camels back situation.

Headbanger

18th December 2012, 12:19

Yea because it's so common for all software vendors to name & explain every service installed with their software :facepalm:
Did you complain this much when Windows installed notepad, windows update, windows firewall, IE, Outlook, task manager etc all without your permission??? Or was that alright because they weren't Apple???

Yeah, we were talking about itunes, remember?

For the record I disagree with any additional services or startup services being installed without user notification and permission and I disagree with software creators making them crucial for their programs to work, Its not done for the user, its done for the company behind the software.

What I really disagree with is network protocols being installed such as bonjour, which are not only useless for the majority of users but in the past has been left behind when the rest of the apple software is removed.

And its not because its apple, its because apple are doing it.

Headbanger

18th December 2012, 12:22

How much of the EULA did you read? If you're so pedantic as to care what all the services are about you might want to read that in its entirety.
95% of users won't care what the individual services are for, a legit program installed them and if the developer thought them necessary thats good enough for me (and the 95%).

A poor startup/services configuration can lead to poor performance, the chances of the few iTunes ones doing so on anything but an ancient computer seem very unlikey, and even then it will be a straw that broke the camels back situation.

It would be better to educate the 95 percent of users who don't understand background services and startup items.

Though then they probably wouldn't accept itunes would they. But thats what facts and education are for, to help people make informed choices.

bogan

18th December 2012, 12:32

It would be better to educate the 95 percent of users who don't understand background services and startup items.

Though then they probably wouldn't accept itunes would they. But thats what facts and education are for, to help people make informed choices.

You're really clutching at straws now, I happen to know quite a bit about computer, and guess what program I run. Tell the other 95% it runs a few background services that do not noticeable effect the running of their computer and see if they uninstall it.

See folks, this is how you demonstrate how good a product is, take a very dedicated hater of said product, and ask them to justify their negative opinions. When they all crumble away to opinions and minority case arguments, you know you have a great product :2thumbsup shit, in this case we even got the hater to use install the product :wings:

Headbanger

18th December 2012, 12:39

You're really clutching at straws now, I happen to know quite a bit about computer, and guess what program I run.

I have no idea what program you run, can't say I care. I also assumed a high level of computer knowledge, Thats not an issue.

Coming from a background where a considerable amount of my customers issues were caused by the unknown actions of programs installed in good faith I can say I'm disappointed but not surprised by your attitude. But that is the apple way, itunes is just an embodiment of that.

No need to tell the so called other "95 percent" that unknown,unwanted,undesirable background apps are actually good for them, Just fire up task manager and show them the amount of pointless services that are crippling their machine, then into the services cp or msconfig and kill them all off, There gratitude is obvious when the system is rebooted.

bogan

18th December 2012, 12:59

I have no idea what program you run, can't say I care. I also assumed a high level of computer knowledge, Thats not an issue.

Well there has been a few clues in the thread if you look closely :laugh:

Coming from a background where a considerable amount of my customers issues were caused by the unknown actions of programs installed in good faith I can say I'm disappointed but not surprised by your attitude. But that is the apple way, itunes is just an embodiment of that.

No need to tell the so called other "95 percent" that unknown,unwanted,undesirable background apps are actually good for them, Just fire up task manager and show them the amount of pointless services that are crippling their machine, then into the services cp or msconfig and kill them all off, There gratitude is obvious when the system is rebooted.

Computers are designed to run programs, services are designed to help those programs to run with efficiency. The windows desktop is nice and all, but not very productive if that is all you have on a computer. Disabling services is a band-aid solution at best, looks nice for the customer and they'll probably think you're a magician, but they'll be back in a while for the same job, but I guess that's good for you too. Program selection and control is far better, only keep the ones you will use often to minimise performance issues while maximising task efficiency. Don't forget that task efficiency is what a computer is all about, maybe your work scope is so narrow you don't deal with that aspect of the customers requires so much?
And of course the program number scale with hardware, supercomp and you'll be able to have piles of shit running, decrepit old comp and you might only be able to run one thing at a time, in which case iTunes probably isn't a good plan unless you're an amateur DJ.

Headbanger

18th December 2012, 13:07

bogan

18th December 2012, 13:30

Yeah,nah.

Education is the key.

Avoid crap like itunes and other bad offenders and the problem doesn't get so far out of hand.

No money in it for me anymore, But when asked I still show people what pointless rubbish is running,how to monitor it and give it a tweak.

and thanks for your insight :crazy: ....lmfao. Too funny.

Your just out of nappies right?

You're going around in circles and losing coherency again, so I'll redirect you to an earlier post...

See folks, this is how you demonstrate how good a product is, take a very dedicated hater of said product, and ask them to justify their negative opinions. When they all crumble away to opinions and minority case arguments, you know you have a great product :2thumbsup shit, in this case we even got the hater to use install the product :wings:

Headbanger

18th December 2012, 15:34

Just a fyi for windows users.

For a efficient and stable machine your best strategy is to have the maximum available resources for the programs you are actively using, having multiple items running in the background is pointless when a modern system can (when not bogged down with shit) open any app in a matter of seconds.

These background apps not only use up system resources but make use of your network connection as well, And unless actively monitored they will continue to expand in scope over the lifetime of the machine and each entry is taking a little bit more of your system resources away from where you need them.In the worst case you only need one to play up in a way that can make your system an unresponsive unstable pile of junk.

If you wanted to be blunt about it, the only 2 items that you actively need in there is your firewall and AV, and they generally only require a single entry each.

A quick ctrl-alt-del on the XP machine I am currently using shows 28 active processes, and thats including the fluff installed by itunes and my broswer, an unhealthy system will have 80+ and its performance will be significantly hampered.

Scuba_Steve

18th December 2012, 15:48

hey cool the search shows album art now too :2thumbsup

bogan

18th December 2012, 18:33

hey cool the search shows album art now too :2thumbsup

And you can add alubums or song to the playlist from the drop down autocomplete bit too!

A quick ctrl-alt-del on the XP machine I am currently using shows 28 active processes, and thats including the fluff installed by itunes and my browser, an unhealthy system will have 80+ and its performance will be significantly hampered.

:lol: 88 running at the moment, 2% CPU and 20% RAM (800meg is my browser cos I like tabs), this is just after getting 50+fps on far cry 3 with ultra settings and 2560x1440 display res. Match your software to your hardware, or vice-versa, assigning arbitrary numbers based on your seemingly old system is well and good if thats what other people run, but a lot of us run higher spec computers so we can do more with them. Comes back to task efficiency again, by all means kill processes that hamper efficiency, but if they don't I don't see any point of getting rid of them.

Headbanger

18th December 2012, 18:40

uh.....This isn't about the size of your e-penis lad, nor does your system have any bearing on best practice.

Keep on stroking it.

bogan

18th December 2012, 18:46

uh.....This isn't about the size of your e-penis lad, nor does your system have any bearing on best practice.

Keep on stroking it.

Ok then, here's a chance for you to contribute something, what is the best program to automatically clean up all these unwanted services and processes so my machine can run at best practice standards? Or do you expect everyone to go through and look up the names of each to figure out which program they belong to, and then figure out if they are needed or not. Because the later sounds like a waste of time if all it achieves is conforming to headbanger's idea of best practice.

Headbanger

18th December 2012, 19:01

Ok then, here's a chance for you to contribute something, what is the best program to automatically clean up all these unwanted services and processes so my machine can run at best practice standards? Or do you expect everyone to go through and look up the names of each to figure out which program they belong to, and then figure out if they are needed or not. Because the later sounds like a waste of time if all it achieves is conforming to headbanger's idea of best practice.

There is no such program to the best of my knowledge, though you can run a hijackthis scan and load the resulting log it into their analiser.Spybot will also show your startup items and some services in different colors to highlight if they are required,useless or nasty. Both these systems are far too cautious.

To do it properly requires a level of expertise, just about everything in there is recorgnisible by name if you know what the names refer to., what isn't can be researched, and the rest is probably nasty. Which is why I have stopped short of recommending everyone wade in there and starting fiddling, Ideally people would be educated from the get go and have the ability to monitor their startup items and services as part of their system routine.

If a comp came into my workshop that was barley working or unstable, I'd kill em all. Clean the system, Give it back to them, tell them to use it for a week and take note of anything that didn't work as expected, then I'd re-enable just those entries that related to apps they actually used. Funny enough no one was impressed when informed about how much junk apple was running on their system, especially when many people hadn't used itunes for months.

Of course part of this would be not recommending apps that drop 3 executables into start up and install a bunch of services. If every program done that then it wouldn't (and doesn't) take long for the shit to hit the fan.

Then again, It makes no difference to you, Your e-penis is huge,I wouldn't bother.

Back to the reference to OS, Later versions of Windows are generally running 50+ services at minimum.

bogan

18th December 2012, 19:18

There is no such program to the best of my knowledge, though you can run a hijackthis scan and load the resulting log it into their analiser.

Seems to me if it was as big of an issue as you say it is, there would be plenty of programs for that purpose. It would be piss-easy to maintain a list of service names and compile their purpose, the program identifies services that might not be required, tell the customer exactly what they are there for (could also give a score as to how much resources they use) and removes or keeps them at their discretion.
You can have that idea for free btw, with the massively crippling problem you should be able to make millions, right?

Then again, It makes no difference to you, Your e-penis is huge,I wouldn't bother.

The reason I mentioned my performance was to give you some insight as to the other end of the demographic from what you are used to seeing. And going by the prices of apple products, their users my be more up my end of the demographic than yours.

Headbanger

18th December 2012, 19:24

Seems to me if it was as big of an issue as you say it is, there would be plenty of programs for that purpose. It would be piss-easy to maintain a list of service names and compile their purpose, the program identifies services that might not be required, tell the customer exactly what they are there for (could also give a score as to how much resources they use) and removes or keeps them at their discretion.
You can have that idea for free btw, with the massively crippling problem you should be able to make millions, right?

The reason I mentioned my performance was to give you some insight as to the other end of the demographic from what you are used to seeing. And going by the prices of apple products, their users my be more up my end of the demographic than yours.

Seriously? You think your specs are something I'm unaware of?, are you smoking crack? or was I meant to flash my own e-penis back at you so you could decide if you were adressing an equal penis?

Sadly my opinion of you has plummeted from your last three or four delusional and naive posts.

Never fear, it will recover. But that shits just dumb.

bogan

18th December 2012, 19:39

Seriously? You think your specs are something I'm unaware of?, are you smoking crack? or was I meant to flash my own e-penis back at you so you could decide if you were adressing an equal penis?

Sadly my opinion of you has plummeted from your last three or four delusional and naive posts.

Never fear, it will recover. But that shits just dumb.

Either you're unaware or you're grossly exaggerating when you've said the 3 iTunes processes will hamper the performance of the computer.

While we're ad-hominiming, my opinion of you hasn't changed much, and no thats not a good thing. Its because you continue to focus on the small details and try to score internet points (which cannot even be redemed for pies) while failing to address the points I'm sure you're aware I'm making. All it says to me is that you simply don't have facts to support your biased opinions, and I'd bet thats what it looks like to anybody else who is still bothering to look in on this thread.

Headbanger

18th December 2012, 20:02

Either you're unaware or you're grossly exaggerating when you've said the 3 iTunes processes will hamper the performance of the computer.

While we're ad-hominiming, my opinion of you hasn't changed much, and no thats not a good thing. Its because you continue to focus on the small details and try to score internet points (which cannot even be redemed for pies) while failing to address the points I'm sure you're aware I'm making. All it says to me is that you simply don't have facts to support your biased opinions, and I'd bet thats what it looks like to anybody else who is still bothering to look in on this thread.

Personally all I get from you is your love of itunes + epenis makes you unable to comprehend the larger picture. Both the above quoted paragraphs are pure drivel. well, apart from my craving for internet points.

I'm still laughing that you thought to enlighten me via your fps......lmfao.

And you're arrogant enough to accuse me of being unable to be educated.

bogan

18th December 2012, 20:10

Personally all I get from you is your love of itunes + epenis makes you unable to comprehend the larger picture. Both the above quoted paragraphs are pure drivel. well, apart from my craving for internet points.

I'm still laughing that you thought to enlighten me via your fps......lmfao.

And you're arrogant enough to accuse me of being unable to be educated.

Exactly what I meant before, the main point of my previous post was the first line which you ignored. Simple question, do the itunes processes running on my computer hamper its performance in a way that detrimentally affects the user experience.

Headbanger

18th December 2012, 20:34

Exactly what I meant before, the main point of my previous post was the first line which you ignored. Simple question, do the itunes processes running on my computer hamper its performance in a way that detrimentally affects the user experience.

The bigger picture and the specifics have already been outlined to you numerous times, If it means nothing to you then its no skin off my nose.

Do I consider a small number of selected processes directly related to actively used applications is fine?

Sure do.

Do I consider apple to be bad offenders when it comes to loading simple apps with system and network hooks that can create a negative user experience?

Sure do.

Does the fact you referenced a gaming pc have any relevancy?

Sure doesn't.

madandy

18th December 2012, 20:37

I dont understand soe ofwat you guys are saying but I do(did) know how to reduce the unwanted crap running in the background on my PC...then I tried an Apple. I prefer it.

Isheep it may be but for a large number of people who actually prefer itunes to the other choices I find it faster and simpler than the alternatives.
I tried Torrents but theres heaps of different torrent sites with names that give no clue to the genres within. I am a musician and regularly jam with professionals and am happy to buy my music. I do not support pirate software on principal. I would not like my hard work to be supplied free without my consent...

Call me dumb or whatever...I'm good at what I do and computers are just a tool for me to access music, email a few forums, youtube etc and the Apple product is favoured by me, my wife, family and a LOT of friends...forevery bad point you come with, headbanger I have eperienced worse from PC.

Headbanger

18th December 2012, 20:54

Headbanger I have eperienced worse from PC.

Bear in mind that I consider itunes on an apple device to be a far better beast, apart from the copy/paste fiasco.

And I'm not defending PC centric apps that do the same crap on Windows machines as what apple does to them, all the main players are equally guilty of the same practices and should be condemned, and there is an unlimited amount of small nasty players directly messing with users using the same loopholes that MS leave there for their partners to use, to the detriment of millions of users.

Nothing apart from security apps should be able to be launched on startup or install services, and that should be regulated by MS and integrated at a kernal level.

In my opinion of course, Others feel that whatever some corperation feels like installing must be good. And then throw money at hardware.

bogan

18th December 2012, 20:57

The bigger picture and the specifics have already been outlined to you numerous times, If it means nothing to you then its no skin off my nose.

Do I consider a small number of selected processes directly related to actively used applications is fine?

Sure do.

Do I consider apple to be bad offenders when it comes to loading simple apps with system and network hooks that can create a negative user experience?

Sure do.

Does the fact you referenced a gaming pc have any relevancy?

Sure doesn't.

Of course it is, kind of how computers work after all.

Do I consider this a reason not to use any of their apps? (and this is the important bit)
Maybe if the negative user experience did actually occur (unlikely), and was annoying enough to outweigh the benefits (highly unlikely) then yes I would stop their process or uninstal the application. The computers I have seen in need of such a tune up can be tuned up quite adequately by removing just the unused processes, keeping apple's stuff still allows it to run fine. Maybe this is why your opinions are skewed? you remove apples stuff plus a whole lot more, so the effect is greater and instead of attributing part of the effect to its parts, you attribute the sum of the effect to the parts.

Do I understand why you dismiss my pc as irrelevant because it is gaming spec? Not at all, plenty of people have gaming spec computers which will handle iTunes just as well as mine, yet you have said the software is so rubbish nobody should use it.

Do I think your opinions are uninformed, well as a non-iTunes user with obvious anti-apple bias, very much so.

Do I know why I continue to post in this thread, not really; your circular and uninformed logic fails to amuse me anymore.

Will I post again, now that's a question I'll have to leave for later...

madandy

18th December 2012, 21:00

Now that I understand, and agree with.:yes:

Keppin yer 'puta in tip top working order is like maintaining a bike or tuning an engine...most just dont geddit or have the inclination. So they reluctantly pays the geek when the device starts to piss them off :angry:

Headbanger

18th December 2012, 21:15

Maybe this is why your opinions are skewed? you remove apples stuff plus a whole lot more, so the effect is greater and instead of attributing part of the effect to its parts, you attribute the sum of the effect to the parts.

Seems to me you know everything, understand nothing.

Are you so incapable of comprehending that which doesn't fit your established views that you make up the waffle as quoted above to fit?

The reason I dismissed your PC is because it has zero bearing on the practices of corporations and what the user needs to know about their system, Best practice on your bike is to check the oil, You wouldn't simply stop doing that because you bought a 2l engine.

imdying

19th December 2012, 09:12

I have an iPod, it's about 8 years old (first gen mini). It still works, although I have to bash it against the handbrake lever to make it play at times :wacko:

For me, iTunes lasted as long as it took to find an alternative that wasn't bloated to all heck. I hate to think what it has become today (download size?). Had a look at the latest version as the reviews were mixed, and it surprised me how unintuitive the user interface is. Apple converts generally suggest otherwise, but often the questions I get asked about it, relate to the most trivial functionality, things that no person should have to ask as it should be obvious. Mind you, if you want to buy something, the interface cossets you in that direction... one gets the feeling that that is their major driver.

I see they've followed Microsoft down the monochrome icons trail. Dumb arses. That goes against both companies UI design guidelines. The mind boggles.

The smart play lists are nice, but nothing you can't get elsewhere, and quite a lot less tuneable than something like Winamp.

I can't disagree about the number of bits of rubbish it installed... just to load songs on to an iPod. Not cool at all.

There's nothing fundamentally wrong with it (ok, maybe the interface, but you'd get used to that), it's just a poor offering from one of the worlds largest tech companies. You would think with their resources there would be far less hoops to jump through. It is definitely something I do not recommend to anyone, but I wouldn't recommend WMP either.

awa355

24th December 2012, 06:04

I have upgraded to the newer version of I tunes. When I go into my library, I get a pop up saying I cannot play previous downloads untill my pc is authorised, How do I do that? I cant find any prompt anywhere.

Edit; Got it :2thumbsup Gosh, sometimes, I'm so smart, I almost amaze myself.

The Lone Rider

26th December 2012, 20:42

Scuba_Steve

26th December 2012, 21:14

Just bought the album I was after off of CDbaby.com

No DRM.. can do what I want.

None of this maximum 5 authorization bullshit to listen to the mp3s I paid for.

Fuck iTunes and all the little bullshit programs it installs additionally.

Fuck Apple

I don't know much of anything about them but looking at their site & FAQ guess the album must not be a "mainstream" famous type which was lucky otherwise it looked like you wouldn't find it there, & you managed to get da exact same DRM as iTunes Store at a lower quality, congrats!... But hey fuck Apple & iTunes

ducatilover

26th December 2012, 21:59

So much e-knob!!!!!!!

I have seen the iTunes about to wipe your music thing myself, it flashed all these messages at me, I decided (first time I've used iTunes, a few weeks back) I probably don't know how to set it up.
It was an iPoddy thing not set up with the PC, so I suppose somebody with a bigger attention span would do it.

I just cancelled out of it and carried on my merry way. Not a huge issue... read the fucking warning things!

For what it's worth, the iTunes on here is using less resources than WMP (essentially the Megasoft equivalent?) and similar to VLC, but a bit more than Foobar2000. To a normal person, it's easy to use

And who the fuck can't disable start up services?

bogan

27th December 2012, 11:19

for those who think iTunes is unacceptable bloatware, try installing a canon Pixma printer :crazy:

Guess I have to throw it away now? :shifty: Pity as it seems like it will do a really nice job and the whole flat can print from it through the wifi...

And who the fuck can't disable start up services?

The same people who would benefit most from the easy to use software I guess ;) Think I'll install a few more things, then prune back some of my own startup items; actually, will try and find some software to do that for me.

Scuba_Steve

27th December 2012, 11:47

for those who think iTunes is unacceptable bloatware, try installing a canon Pixma printer :crazy:

I see your Canon printing software & raise you HP printing software.

Gremlin

27th December 2012, 14:09

I see your Canon printing software & raise you HP printing software.
Yeah, I'd say Canon is Ok, you can control the install if you wish very easily, but otherwise it's quite functional.

HP.... urgh.

On the plus side, we put in plenty of Canon printers, good stable machines for the most part, excellent drivers etc. HP screwed us around for a month with a printer lacking RDP printing, until we finally found out from the product manager at the distributor. HP denied any issue (which made us dig further into the problem - pointlessly). Canon's best seller is HP. :niceone:

Headbanger

27th December 2012, 14:25

Righto,

Following the natural progression of these things, I uninstalled itunes.

As expected from past experience the uninstall process isn't in the interest of the user.

itunes is listed as uninstalled, itunes helper is listed as uninstalled (though I doubt either have been uninstalled properly so they warrant further investigation)

However

apple application support
apple mobile device support
apple software update
and bonjour are all still installed.

Its not as bad as past installs, But its still the behavior of a bunch of fucktards, requiring the running of 4 uninstallers for one install. Unfortunately as far as apple is concerned this is par for the course.

System was rebooted and the registry scanned for redundant entries, 32 identified as relating to the itunes install that were left on machine and required manual deletion.

Quick check on system files identified a a dozen or so system folders left behind, Most were empty though the itunes folder and the apple computer folder in the application data directory both contained files that required manual deletion.

Irrespective of whether this is a result of poor programming or arrogant decision making (I'd say both), It is funny enough much improved over apples past performance.

That however isn't justification, I wouldn't recommend anyone infect their system with what I could only describe as utter shit unless that person was misinformed enough to purchase an itunes device, in which case, who cares, This is your only option. Even the alternatives require the apple software/services to be resident on the system and running in order to function. Certainly its not worth the sacrifice if all you are after is a media player.

I would recommend everyone else weigh up the pros and cons and then purchase an android device, You then have the choice as to whether or not you would like to use copy/paste or a more involved sync application, all without being forced into the apple system of wankery.

Headbanger

27th December 2012, 14:29

With printers (like all things) research before purchase is the key, specifically to identify if the required drivers are available to be installed separately from whatever bloated crap is supplied on the install cd, I personally never use the supplied cd. I have seen it cripple home and work pc's.

And again, In an attempt to ward of the douchebaggery, Spending 4 grand on hardware doesn't make this practice anymore welcome.

bogan

27th December 2012, 14:37

Yeah, I'd say Canon is Ok, you can control the install if you wish very easily, but otherwise it's quite functional.

HP.... urgh.

On the plus side, we put in plenty of Canon printers, good stable machines for the most part, excellent drivers etc. HP screwed us around for a month with a printer lacking RDP printing, until we finally found out from the product manager at the distributor. HP denied any issue (which made us dig further into the problem - pointlessly). Canon's best seller is HP. :niceone:

Well Canon commandeered a corner of the desktop for a row of icons, might be useful to those who do scanning and printing daily, but for my perhaps monthly use I'll get rid of them...

I would recommend everyone else weigh up the pros and cons and then purchase an android device, You then have the choice as to whether or not you would like to use copy/paste or a more involved sync application, all without being forced into the apple system of wankery.

Can you get iTunes to sync with android devices though?

With printers (like all things) research before purchase is the key, specifically to identify if the required drivers are available to be installed separately from whatever bloated crap is supplied on the install cd, I personally never use the supplied cd. I have seen it cripple home and work pc's.

And again, In an attempt to ward of the douchebaggery, Spending 4 grand on hardware doesn't make this practice anymore welcome.

Welcome, no; tolerable, completely. I'll choose the best device or software for the job, I won't avoid companies that produce bloatware just to send a message as you seem to be advocating.

Headbanger

27th December 2012, 14:41

bogan

27th December 2012, 14:46

The benefit of using an android device is to get away from apple software and systems, It is possible to get the two to communicate but its asshole process which apple actively work against.

Your best bet is to simply never to have had itunes installed.

To many of us, that is not a benefit. One day you might understand why this is, but I won't be holding my breath.

Headbanger

27th December 2012, 14:50

To many of us, that is not a benefit. One day you might understand why this is, but I won't be holding my breath.

Fine by me, I'm happy to put some real world information out there for anyone interested.

Some people just love Apple wankery.

Scuba_Steve

27th December 2012, 15:01

The benefit of using an android device is to get away from apple software and systems, It is possible to get the two to communicate but its asshole process which apple actively works against. But if the end user has a preference for itunes they should stick to an itunes device.

Your best bet is to simply never to have had itunes installed.

obviously when you mention "android device" you're not talking Samsung (there could be others as bad but I haven't tried others so can't comment there)
I must say your life must be pretty boring if you have the time & effort to research every device/software you're gonna hook upto your system to find out what comes with it.
Which also brings the point your system itself must be pretty barren & boring (lest of course you're a hypocrite) if infact you do reject software that behaves like Apples own. After all their not the 1st, they won't be the last & they are by far not the worst aside from that a major majority of software out there does something of the same

As for the stuff left behind by Apple I would expect no less. The stuff left isn't iTunes specific so removing them would be the equivalent of removing something like DirectX components every time you uninstall a game

Headbanger

27th December 2012, 15:09

Big Dave

27th December 2012, 15:13

http://www.comedy.co.uk/images/library/people/180x200/t/the_it_crowd_moss.jpg

bogan

27th December 2012, 15:19

Sorry chap, Information is an important tool, Wallowing in ignorance is nothing to crow about.

If your going to recommend something to other people then you owe to them to look deeper then the shiny surface.

There is no more justification for apple installing unwanted software on my system then there is for the likes of kazaa to do so, The fact that many companies have shitbag intentions doesn't give them all the right to be shitbags. Nor should the end user be the one to suffer for it. Your comparison to directx is pretty dumb.

When you say ignorance, wankery, and look deeper etc, you really mean agree with you? and use a derisive manor to try and appear more knowledgeable or something? cos I think both me and SS have looked as deep as you have, yet...

I think the comparison to DX is a good one, sure the services left behind are likely only used by other apple stuff, and not likely to be used again, but in essence it the same shared software method as DX uses.

Headbanger

27th December 2012, 15:27

bogan

27th December 2012, 15:40

Yeah, I don't actually place any value on either of you guys views on the subject at hand.

Your claim that directx and apple services are similar only reinforces that position.

One is a integral component of the OS that allows direct communication to the hardware for efficient performance (and any updates installed by games are provided by MS), the other is just unnecessary shit installed and left behind by a media player.

Not the function of it you muppet :facepalm: its the method of shared software that is the same. Must be bloody easy to get valued consensuses if you ignore those who disagree though, I'm sure more than a few software companies would be guilty of that :whistle:

Gremlin

27th December 2012, 15:42

Well Canon commandeered a corner of the desktop for a row of icons, might be useful to those who do scanning and printing daily, but for my perhaps monthly use I'll get rid of them...
Fair enough. Last MX model I installed it put a tool tray icon in the bottom right, and a whole column floating on the desktop. It can easily be hidden if you wish, made it easier for the home of users anyway...

Can you get iTunes to sync with android devices though?
Wrong question. iTunes reads a directory of music files. With apps like FolderSync you can sync SMB shares and directories (and a hell of a lot of other things) to directories on your Android, both ways, single way, etc.

The Lone Rider

27th December 2012, 17:49

I don't know much of anything about them

The one thing I agree with what you wrote. And Fuck iTunes & Apple.

The rest I don't have to agree or disagree with; it is simply just wrong.

ducatilover

27th December 2012, 19:22

Headbanger

27th December 2012, 19:25

Not the function of it you muppet :facepalm: its the method of shared software that is the same.

The nature of both are defined by their function, But never fear, I'll contextualize it further to aid your comprehension.

Consider the oil in your bike to be dirextX, Its there by design and a requirement for the correct operation of your motor, Lets say you decide to enhance the capabilities of your motorcycle by replacing a number of internal components. When this is done you upgrade to a newer version of oil that compliments the new configuration.

Now consider you send your bike in to get a new headlight (itunes) fitted, You get it back and discover it has also been fitted with a water softener and a big red 2m flag, You think fuck, thats not what I wanted but then discover your light won't function without them, so you hit the road only to then discover the new light does nothing the old light didn't do, it just looks slick and has strong marketing.

So, fuck that, You head back to the shop, tell them to get rid of that shit, You pick your bike up, ride off down the road, The old headlight has been refitted, but fuck in hell, they left the water softener, the big red flag and all the fittings for the shitty light you didn't want.

Customer service, Apple style.

bogan

27th December 2012, 19:26

Found the optimisation program I was looking for, Tune Up Utilities (http://www.tune-up.com/download/). Easy to use, can be told to start and stop programs and services as they are run or closed, big impact on program startup time though, so I've left iTunes ones going, adobe and chrome were classed as some of the worst offenders, the highest load one (mobo monitor) doesn't want to be stopped so I won't fuck with that. Can't say I can tell any difference except some of the taskbar stuff (all the printer bits and bobs) is gone, but this sort of thing is often cumulative, so worth keeping on top of it...

All in all it seems like a nice helpful program worth the 50USD asking price, though it does add its own service to the list :shifty: Nice to have the best of both worlds, with the recommended or desired programs available to run from the start menu but not using any resources otherwise, and the more important/useful ones selected to run all the time.

edit: funnily enough, the DLNA server/service is apparently impactless, must be some good coding there!

bogan

27th December 2012, 19:31

I see your small CPU friendly apple issues and raise you McCafee

And Vista

And the other million shit things out there

iTunes is not as heinous as it's being made out to be. I think Headbanger has something against the Apple products.

McCafee and Vista, shit bro, you must have started typing that post at lunch time :p

The nature of both are defined by their function, But never fear, I'll contextualize it further to aid your comprehension.

Consider the oil in your bike to be dirextX, Its there by design and a requirement for the correct operation of your motor, Lets say you decide to enhance the capabilities of your motorcycle by replacing a number of internal components. When this is done you upgrade to a newer version of oil that compliments the new configuration.

Now consider you send your bike in to get a new headlight (itunes) fitted, You get it back and discover it has also been fitted with a water softener and a big red 2m flag, You think fuck, thats not what I wanted but then discover your light won't function without them, so you hit the road only to then discover the new light does nothing the old light didn't do, it just looks slick and has strong marketing.

So, fuck that, You head back to the shop, tell them to get rid of that shit, You pick your bike up, ride off down the road, The old headlight has been refitted, but fuck in hell, they left the water softener, the big red flag and all the fittings for the shitty light you didn't want.

Customer service, Apple style.

See now you're making progress, we told you it was the same method.

ducatilover

27th December 2012, 19:42

McCafee and Vista, shit bro, you must have started typing that post at lunch time :p

I'm lucky, I've never had either. Just been the lucky guy getting rid of 'em :D
I'm happy with my set up, 75 sec from push of teh button to on the net, with a Vodem shit heap ;)

bogan

28th December 2012, 09:44

Tune up utilities have a half price xmas deal on atm if anybody else is interested. 25 bucks for 3 computers worth of tuning up!

Usarka

19th February 2013, 06:43

Scuba_Steve

19th February 2013, 07:09

I'm uninstalling iPubes as I write this. Never going to use this piece of shit again.

Fuck apple and fuck their anal-pus-sore m4a files. I don't want m4a apple proprietary shit, I want files that work on my other gear. And if you wank on about converting a lossy format to another lossy format you are lossy-in-the-brain.

Lick my balls apple.

You do understand m4a files are no more Apple's than mp3, Apple simply uses them they're not proprietary to them. But hey don't let that stop your anti-Apple rant

Kendog

19th February 2013, 12:58

I'm uninstalling iPubes as I write this. Never going to use this piece of shit again.

Fuck apple and fuck their anal-pus-sore m4a files. I don't want m4a apple proprietary shit, I want files that work on my other gear. And if you wank on about converting a lossy format to another lossy format you are lossy-in-the-brain.

Lick my balls apple.
I have no idea what an m4a is.
But I do know itunes music works perfectly on every device I use, so not sure what your problem is.

Headbanger

19th February 2013, 13:30

I have no idea what an m4a is.

Its an MP4, The use of the "a" is to signify that it is audio only.

Usarka

19th February 2013, 19:08

You do understand m4a files are no more Apple's than mp3, Apple simply uses them they're not proprietary to them. But hey don't let that stop your anti-Apple rant

Wow that magically made it work on my PS3 and my Pioneer MP3 car stereo. Oh, no it still doesn't. MP3 does, or much more preferably a lossless format would let me convert it so that it can without degrading the quality.

itunes has become a monopoly of online music sales. It sells music in a lossy format (ie. not full quality) that doesn't play on a number of common devices. And the vast majority of the time there is no other choice if you want to purchase online.

itunes and apple can stil lick my balls.

Scuba_Steve

19th February 2013, 19:46

Wow that magically made it work on my PS3 and my Pioneer MP3 car stereo. Oh, no it still doesn't. MP3 does, or much more preferably a lossless format would let me convert it so that it can without degrading the quality.

itunes has become a monopoly of online music sales. It sells music in a lossy format (ie. not full quality) that doesn't play on a number of common devices. And the vast majority of the time there is no other choice if you want to purchase online.

itunes and apple can stil lick my balls.

Never said it would "magically" fix things, I was simply pointing out it wasn't Apple.

I don't know what your problem is. I don't have a Pioneer MP3 head unit so I can't test on that, but I just went & purchased a song from iTunes, I then converted it to MP3 & I played both the MP3 & the original m4a versions on my PS3 with no trouble at all. They also play from my iPod (obviously) Galaxy Tab, Philips MP3 player & DVD player, every digital music playing device I have will play a song brought from iTunes in it's original m4a format, & if I had one that didn't I (like you) could simply convert the song into so it could play

SMOKEU

19th February 2013, 19:51

, but I just went & purchased a song from iTunes,

What, you paid for music?!?! That's like paying for water or air.

Scuba_Steve

19th February 2013, 19:58

What, you paid for music?!?! That's like paying for water or air.

paying for music is much more sensible than paying for water or air, yet people pay a fuck load for them too.
But no iTunes give away a free song every week from an unknown artist they're promoting I just grabbed that, I wasn't about to pay for a song just to try & replicate Usarka's problem

SMOKEU

19th February 2013, 20:05

But no iTunes give away a free song every week from an unknown artist they're promoting I just grabbed that, I wasn't about to pay for a song just to try & replicate Usarka's problem

Fair enough then.

Headbanger

19th February 2013, 22:27

if I had one that didn't I (like you) could simply convert the song into so it could play

I believe one of his points was that every time you compress a track by encoding it into another format you lose quality.

So they compress it before selling it (lowers the quality in the first instance) then you compress it again to a more usable format, You now have dog shit.

Personally I rip my own CD's (paying a premium for something of a lower quality of the original is a tad dumb) to an Mp3 player (Galaxy SII) and use an auxiliary cable to plug it into my amp and car stereo.

The ability to carry my music with me is a tradeoff in regards to quality, But my shelves of cd's are my shrine to all that is holy.

Headbanger

19th February 2013, 22:28

paying for music is much more sensible than paying for water or air, yet people pay a fuck load for them too.

You would need to be paying for muddy water.......

SMOKEU

19th February 2013, 22:37

I believe one of his points was that every time you compress a track by encoding it into another format you lose quality.

So they compress it before selling it (lowers the quality in the first instance) then you compress it again to a more usable format, You now have dog shit.

Personally I rip my own CD's (paying a premium for something of a lower quality of the original is a tad dumb) to an Mp3 player (Galaxy SII) and use an auxiliary cable to plug it into my amp and car stereo.

The ability to carry my music with me is a tradeoff in regards to quality, But my shelves of cd's are my shrine to all that is holy.

Realistically, how many people have a sound system that is good enough to differentiate between high bitrate MP3 (that in itself could spawn a whole thread) and CD quality? I'd much rather download music for free than pay an exorbitant cost of money (+ labour) for an indiscernible increase in audio quality.

Downloading individual tracks, or even albums is incredibly laborious as well. I'd much rather get a discography torrent to download overnight while I'm sleeping.

Big Dave

19th February 2013, 22:41

One day I hope you make something really cool Smokey - and every cunt steals it.

bogan

19th February 2013, 22:44

Realistically, how many people have a sound system that is good enough to differentiate between high bitrate MP3 (that in itself could spawn a whole thread) and CD quality?

And those that claim they do, would be very difficult to get to do a blind comparison test...

One day I hope you make something really cool Smokey - and every cunt steals it.

Well, you know that saying about monkeys and typewriters, just give him enough days...

Headbanger

19th February 2013, 22:54

Realistically, how many people have a sound system that is good enough to differentiate between high bitrate MP3 (that in itself could spawn a whole thread) and CD quality?.

Millions?

By all means suit yourself, I'll take the quality offering thanks.

SMOKEU

19th February 2013, 22:55

One day I hope you make something really cool Smokey - and every cunt steals it.

If I only make one thing, then how can multiple copies be stolen? You said "every cunt steals it", meaning there is more than one thief.

Unless it happens to be an intangible asset.

Headbanger

19th February 2013, 22:57

And those that claim they do, would be very difficult to get to do a blind comparison test...

Half the problem is everyone has different taste, expectations and ears.

I'd be more then happy to do a blind comparison test, It would be a bit of a hard case. Pity about the distance.

The day I plugged in my newly purchased amp and speakers was a sad sad day for me, I heard with clarity just how shit my digital audio collection actually was.

SMOKEU

19th February 2013, 22:57

Millions?

By all means suit yourself, I'll take the quality offering thanks.

The world has a population of over 1 billion, so "millions" isn't exactly a percentage that would be necesserily quantifiable.

Headbanger

19th February 2013, 23:05

The world has a population of over 1 billion, so "millions" isn't exactly a percentage that would be necesserily quantifiable.

Well, I've got two hi-fi set-ups, so thats a start, and Im sure millions of amps and speakers have been sold in the last thirty years.

So, Millions+my two.

I don't ask how many blu-ray players have been sold before sitting down in front of my 55" Lcd to watch a movie, I just enjoy the quality on offer, Others can watch their shitty torrent sourced shit with the audio coming through a plastic set of logitechs....

Scuba_Steve

20th February 2013, 07:28

I believe one of his points was that every time you compress a track by encoding it into another format you lose quality.

So they compress it before selling it (lowers the quality in the first instance) then you compress it again to a more usable format, You now have dog shit.

Personally I rip my own CD's (paying a premium for something of a lower quality of the original is a tad dumb) to an Mp3 player (Galaxy SII) and use an auxiliary cable to plug it into my amp and car stereo.

The ability to carry my music with me is a tradeoff in regards to quality, But my shelves of cd's are my shrine to all that is holy.

The avg person cannot distinguish say CD vs 256kbp AAC because the avg person does not have perfect hearing, very few actually do coming into adulthood most fuck that ability in their teens.
But I prefer to buy overpriced pieces of plastic when buying overpriced sound wave scripts too, because I like to see/hold something for my moneys

imdying

20th February 2013, 08:24

One day I hope you make something really cool Smokey - and every cunt steals it.If he price gouges, then he'll deserve it.

Realistically, how many people have a sound system that is good enough to differentiate between high bitrate MP3 (that in itself could spawn a whole thread) and CD quality? Anybody with a PC and a set of headphones. The clarity difference between a FLAC and 320kbps MP3 is huge. HUGE. I have the same track in both, both rips from the same CD, and I have never found anyone who couldn't tell the difference in a blind test.

Headbanger

20th February 2013, 10:33

The avg person cannot distinguish say CD vs 256kbp AAC because the avg person does not have perfect hearing, very few actually do coming into adulthood most fuck that ability in their teens.
But I prefer to buy overpriced pieces of plastic when buying overpriced sound wave scripts too, because I like to see/hold something for my moneys

pppffft, wank off.

You're the same person advocating those shitty plastic desktop speakers as a home theatre system, No need to claim you speak for the average person, You just accept shit or don't know any better.

Big Dave

20th February 2013, 10:37

Headbanger

20th February 2013, 10:46

The average person is satisfied with Mcdonalds, they have billions of sales to back this claim.

Or is just because low quality crap is easy to access, cheap, fills the hole, and an entire generation knows no better.

Its a damn shame really, That the quality of audio is being lowered in the studio to reflect the devices and supply methods, Its like taking the finest steak and turning it into shitty patties because that's what people have become accustomed to.

I'll assume that at some time the pendulum will swing back the other way, we already have enough bandwidth (in the world, not NZ) that there is no need to ruin audio for delivery, and if the market can be broken away from apple we can hopefully get good quality, and suitable pricing.

Big Dave

20th February 2013, 10:54

Count me as aware and don't care.

Headbanger

20th February 2013, 10:59

Count me as aware and don't care.

Then your motivation is....apathy?

Nice work:lol:

Anyhow, I'm not against anyone and everyone using whatever suits them best, But people are going to recognize the difference between a porterhouse steak and a sausage, even if the average man eats more sausage then steak.

bogan

20th February 2013, 10:59

Lets not forget how we got to mp3s, from CDs. So people aren't ignorant of the differences (or lack thereof) in quality, they just don't care.

Headbanger

20th February 2013, 11:10

There is a huge amount of ignorance, Just go and read the reviews at Amazon.

People, in their ignorance attempting to debate or judge albums based on compressed crap squeezed through tiny ear buds, Not understanding that what they are hearing is not the same material as the original audio release, wether that be LP or CD.

To combat this the fuckwits have lowered the quality before destribution and claim it to be "digitally remastered", Something a lot of people are ignorant of.

The last Metallica album is a prime example, as is the 30th anniversary edition of Screaming for Vengeance, what shows up as distinct distortion and audio corruption goes unnoticed when compression is further used.

Sure, Many people don't care, More power to them, I'll still take the quality offering.

imdying

20th February 2013, 11:10

It's actually a cunning plan... MP3s are such crap I only buy CDs now.

Did you offer a lossless format for your download Dave?

imdying

20th February 2013, 11:12

Lets not forget how we got to mp3s, from CDs.Digital space was expensive. Now it is not.

Scuba_Steve

20th February 2013, 11:21

pppffft, wank off.

You're the same person advocating those shitty plastic desktop speakers as a home theatre system, No need to claim you speak for the average person, You just accept shit or don't know any better.

I reckon you're probably one of these "audiophiles" that wank on about sound quality, must have best, everything else is shit, yet come a blind test probably can't tell the difference between coat hanger & monster cable

We've always believed that the perceived quality boost that comes from using high-end cables is really just a trick of the mind (read: justifying the ridiculous cost of premium cables to yourself) -- if you've dropped enough cash, you can probably hear anything you want. Still, our belief is one thing -- cold hard proof is another, and it looks like a group of 12 self-professed "audiophiles" recently couldn't tell the difference between Monster 1000 speaker cables and plain old coat hangers. Yeah, coat hangers. The group was A-Bing different cables, and unbeknownst to them, the engineer running the test swapped out a set of cables for coat hangers with soldered-on speaker connections. Not a single one was then able to tell the difference between the Monster Cable and the hangers, and all agreed that the hangers sounded excellent. No wonder Monster has to rig HD displays. Still, we bet people still fall for the hype -- oh hey, if you're looking for the ultimate in sound, we've got half a meter of oxygen-free, triple-wrapped double-insulated Sonically Shielded AmpliSized Egyptian Llama cable here that we'll part ways with for just a couple grand.

I like my Logitech's & like most adults my hearing isn't perfect so my "plastic desktop speakers" will probably sound exactly the same to me as your "uber awesomely overpriced platinum status" setup
Maybee you should go find one of those "Mosquito" systems, see if you can hear it. If not, maybee it's time to stop pissing away so much money on audio equip that would better spent on bikes

Big Dave

20th February 2013, 11:23

Then your motivation is....apathy?

Nice work:lol:

Discussion/mebate (that's a typo - but it works so well I'll leave it) - and noting that the convenience, portability and longevity of digital media is worth more to me than the difference in quality.
Not your assertion that I/we accept mediocrity by conditioning.

bogan

20th February 2013, 11:32

I reckon you're probably one of these "audiophiles" that wank on about sound quality, must have best, everything else is shit, yet come a blind test probably can't tell the difference between coat hanger & monster cable

Maybe that's cos they were playing MP3s :dodge:

HDMI cables are about the worst, 'buy these gold plated ones for a better signal' 'err, you realise its a digital signal right' :shutup:

Digital space was expensive. Now it is not.

True, but also true is that most of us didn't go, 'well I'll take the quality loss for now because it is convenient and cheap', it was more, 'sounds the same, more convenient, sold!'

Headbanger

20th February 2013, 11:33

I reckon you're probably one of these "audiophiles" that wank on about sound quality, must have best, everything else is shit, yet come a blind test probably can't tell the difference between coat hanger & monster cable

I like my Logitech's & like most adults my hearing isn't perfect so my "plastic desktop speakers" will probably sound exactly the same to me as your ....

Your ignorance is fighting a battle with your delusion.

Neither of my audio systems are expensive, and I wish I could invite you around, I have my PC plugged into a set of logitechs, and into my amp. You can instantly swap between the two from the same source, or change the source.

The difference between the two systems is so profound that the only way you could claim them to sound exactly the same is.......well, you couldn't unless delusion was something you cling to.

Headbanger

20th February 2013, 11:37

Discussion/mebate (that's a typo - but it works so well I'll leave it) - and noting that the convenience, portability and longevity of digital media is worth more to me than the difference in quality.
Not your assertion that I/we accept mediocrity by conditioning.

So, why not also take quality?

When mp3's came about most of the world was on dialup. Hard-drives were of lower capacity and more expensive.

There is no reason to accept the limitations of what in our digital era is the distant past as the yard stick for our current or future era, especially when its applied to data that has no reason to be subject to this limiting factors.

Even more so when this data is being sold at a premium.

bogan

20th February 2013, 12:16

Well Canon commandeered a corner of the desktop for a row of icons, might be useful to those who do scanning and printing daily, but for my perhaps monthly use I'll get rid of them...

To recap, they are most useful for doing scanning and printing and other fancy things!

imdying

20th February 2013, 12:26

I reckon you're probably one of these "audiophiles" that wank on about sound quality, must have best, everything else is shit, yet come a blind test probably can't tell the difference between coat hanger & monster cableYou should give it a fair shot, I've not found anyone that can't tell the difference between a midi system and a hifi system. Hifi systems do not have to be expensive... sure if you want a multizone HDMI 3D switching beast it won't be cheap, but you don't need that. A quality secondhand amp, some speakers, and you're there for music. My hearing isn't the best (too much metal at high volume when I was younger), but even I can hear clarity.

HDMI cables are about the worst, 'buy these gold plated ones for a better signal' 'err, you realise its a digital signal right' :shutup:Digital signals are still subject to interference. You must have seen Freeview go block on occasions? For short runs the cable quality isn't very important on HDMI though.

True, but also true is that most of us didn't go, 'well I'll take the quality loss for now because it is convenient and cheap', it was more, 'sounds the same, more convenient, sold!'Sounds adequate was the thing... not sounds the same. But now we no longer need to put up with that.... haven't done for years.

imdying

20th February 2013, 12:27

Neither of my audio systems are expensive, and I wish I could invite you around, I have my PC plugged into a set of logitechs, and into my amp. You can instantly swap between the two from the same source, or change the source.

The difference between the two systems is so profound that the only way you could claim them to sound exactly the same is.......well, you couldn't unless delusion was something you cling to.I'd put money on it :yes:

bogan

20th February 2013, 12:35

Digital signals are still subject to interference. You must have seen Freeview go block on occasions? For short runs the cable quality isn't very important on HDMI though.

Sounds adequate was the thing... not sounds the same. But now we no longer need to put up with that.... haven't done for years.

Yeh I'm talking the $200 2m gold plated leads they try and sell, long runs I can understand.

Hmmm, fine, I'll go look for some flacs of the same albums I bought through istore.

ducatilover

20th February 2013, 12:39

What's the obsession with putting a lower case "i" in front of these technothings

Big Dave

20th February 2013, 12:41

What's the obsession with putting a lower case "i" in front of these technothings

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brand_management

imdying

20th February 2013, 12:41

Yeh I'm talking the $200 2m gold plated leads they try and sell, long runs I can understand.

Hmmm, fine, I'll go look for some flacs of the same albums I bought through istore.Oh, those are nothing... check out the wooden amplifier knobs!

http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/hoax/weblog/comments/4309/P20/

Ultimate face palm.

Stay away from the FLACs, going back is hard :laugh:

Getting a decent stereo after years of my trusty Z680s was really eye opening... there's all sorts of stuff in the music you hear that you've been missing. I've really enjoyed going back through my old CDs on it, Pink Floyd never sounded so good! Same with MP3=>FLAC, really does make it so much more enjoyable.

Headbanger

20th February 2013, 14:25

You should give it a fair shot, I've not found anyone that can't tell the difference between a midi system and a hifi system. Hifi systems do not have to be expensive... sure if you want a multizone HDMI 3D switching beast it won't be cheap, but you don't need that. A quality secondhand amp, some speakers, and you're there for music. My hearing isn't the best (too much metal at high volume when I was younger), but even I can hear clarity.
.

Exactly...All my gear is either second hand or if new then classed as entry level.Actually even the second hand gear is entry level.

My first purchase (approx 8 years ago)was an Onkyo amp and a set of infinity speakers for $400, The guy I purchased them off payed $2400, Still using the speakers and the amp died a year ago when I spilled my beer into it. Damn shame as that amp could have powered a train station....

As for hearing, I spent the first 5 years of my working life on a jackhammer, then operating plant (with even bigger hydraulic hammers and the stereo blaring over the top of it) and I've been listening to metal at ridicules levels my entire life....

Headbanger

20th February 2013, 14:33

Yeh I'm talking the $200 2m gold plated leads they try and sell, long runs I can understand.

Hmmm, fine, I'll go look for some flacs of the same albums I bought through istore.

Just be aware that cheap speakers will mask some of the difference, Thats not to say that they will improve the poor source, but instead cap the level of quality that is being delivered.

As an example my Sennheiser headphones offer far better clarity then my $30 TDK headphones, But being able to hear how shrill and thin the compressed music really is doesn't make for a grand experience, Its fine when I want to hear the detail in the music during a short period but it causes listening fatigue, It becomes hard to ignore, where as my TDK's just fart in my ears with an over emphasis on bass/low end.

imdying

20th February 2013, 14:41

I'd agree... a basic hifi amp is very cheap, so spend any extra $$$ on speakers. There are things that a small woofer simply can't physically do, so supplement it with a sub if that is prominent in your favourite genres.

ducatilover

20th February 2013, 15:04

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brand_management

:rolleyes: Don't give me a proper answer ya bleedin' Aussie

Big Dave

20th February 2013, 17:13

I only have prepper answers and never make misteaks.

Big Dave

20th February 2013, 22:37

If I only make one thing, then how can multiple copies be stolen?

The decision not to steal intellectual property is one that comes from within. It's called a moral compass.
Eventually successful people learn that it's more rewarding to be true to yourself than to take something just because you can.

imdying

21st February 2013, 09:29

oneofsix

21st February 2013, 09:42

The decision not to steal intellectual property is one that comes from within. It's called a moral compass.
Eventually successful people learn that it's more rewarding to be true to yourself than to take something just because you can.

Are you writing Tui ads? The music bosses charge you shit loads for something worth a few cents because they can, and that is still "to take something just because you can". Now people are taking back, i.e. saying you can't to the industry bosses, so the industry bosses are running around trying to patch laws etc using their excess profits to prop up their failing business model.

In movie industry they actually tried releasing a download for a current release but tried charging more to buy the downloadable. :facepalm:

Headbanger

21st February 2013, 10:30

http://www.cracked.com/article_20256_5-things-record-labels-dont-want-you-to-know-they-do.html

Big Dave

21st February 2013, 10:54

Swoop

21st February 2013, 10:58

The difference between the two systems is so profound that the only way you could claim them to sound exactly the same is.......well, you couldn't unless ...
You played Justin Bebo?
Equally shit through either system!:lol:

imdying

21st February 2013, 11:24

Big Dave

21st February 2013, 11:44

That's not true,

Yeah it is. In the long run.
Even moreso as self-publishing becomes the norm.

Scuba_Steve

21st February 2013, 12:05

That's not true, the artist doesn't get their money from album sales, they get it from their contract, and the recording companies screw them well before that.

This all depends on how their signed up.
But the common enemy to both artists & consumers alike is the publishers like you mention

oneofsix

21st February 2013, 12:29

Tui Ads.

Ahh. The evil publishing company justification. 'Let's steal from them because they deserve it.'

Somewhere at the end of the chain is an artist.
I'm an artist and stealing other people's work doesn't balance my book. Even if it's indirectly.

FWIW I think that the publishing industry's punitive measures against random individuals is much worse. But two wrongs - are both wrong.

"I guess I’m sort of sympathetic to your plight because you didn’t torrent the e-book and try to pass that off as brave reimagining of the content distribution paradigm." - http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/opinion/blogs/blunt-instrument/an-open-letter-to-the-shoplifter-caught-stealing-my-book-20130220-2erkt.html

Argh the artist of the prose. A different kettle of fish but look at the changes that has gone through since the scribe and the wax tablet but that world adapted.
Music and plays had a freer history than the word until the industry took over and once the industry took over they refuse to adapt or even allow fair use.
Funny how the USA industries didn't give a shit about anyone else's copywrites until they become dominant.

Headbanger

21st February 2013, 14:34

Yeah it is. In the long run.

For the vast majority of them it isn't true.

Until they have proven themselves capable of selling millions of albums and entering into a contract with some power to negotiate, they aren't going to see squidly shit of any album sales.

Big Dave

21st February 2013, 15:08

For the vast majority of them it isn't true.

Until they have proven themselves capable of selling millions of albums and entering into a contract with some power to negotiate, they aren't going to see squidly shit of any album sales.

I don't care if it's one tenth of fuck all. It's the principle - somewhere down the line an Artist gets diddled. Maybe on the next contract, maybe on the charts.
And maybe never because they were done anyway. Rail against the injustice of the system by all means. I don't want to actively participate in the diddlin'.
How many miniscules make a maxiscule? (enquiring minds want to know)!

I also read that it's the writers that take the hardest hit from diminished royalties. I wish I get royalties for something one day!

As to the evil publishing company? Well, I've never been to a big record company or corporation so I only know what I've read, but I've worked for some publishing houses first hand - some even published music - yet to meet anyone who would eat their own young.

http://www.artistshousemusic.org/videos/how+illegal+file+sharing+affects+recording+artists