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pritch
14th December 2012, 19:00
About fifty years ago now, a workmate, a former motorcyclist, (Vincent Comet among others) gave me some issues of the British “Motorcycle” magazine from the 1950s. One of them contained an item about an NZ motorcycle dealer (John Dale?) riding a 350 single (Matchless ?) from Wellington to Auckland on a single tank of gas, as a sort of publicity stunt. He got extraordinarily low fuel consumption figures, way over 100 miles per gallon. And those old Brit singles didn't even have a particularly large tank.

If the details seem vague, please understand, all this was a long time ago...

Until recently I hadn't read anything much about fuel economy in a long time, the last few decades have been all about horsepower, and the easiest way to get more power is to burn more fuel. Recently though, amid forecasts of diminishing oil supplies accompanied by predicted hugely escalating gas prices, there is renewed interest in fuel economy. This has lead Dorna to impose an arbitrary fuel limit on GP bikes in an effort to force manufacturers to develop more fuel efficient engines.

Apart from such PC silliness, some manufacturers have begun introducing fuel efficient bikes for their own reasons. The BMW 800 parallel twins reportedly give outstanding fuel consumption figures. The G650GS even more so, about 80mpg. The new KTM Duke is also capable of sipping fuel at an uncommonly miserly rate. Honda has entered the low consumption competition with the Honda NC700S for which the manufacturer also claims 80mpg.

The engine of the NC700S (670cc actually) is basically half a Honda Jazz car engine. This results in a red line under 6,500 revs. Riders harbouring fantasies of being the next Casey Stoner won't like this bike at all. But that's OK, they are not the intended market. Sharing parts with the Jazz engine though must help keep the price down. Honda have thought about this and there are other cost saving measures. The outside diameter of the rear (wavy) disc is less than the inside diameter of the front disc so that both can be cut from the same piece of steel. These things and whatever other measures they took mean the bike is intended to be keenly priced on the shop floor.

Honda describe the bike as a commuter. I haven't seen any on the road here but “BIKE“ magazine reports that they are selling in the UK, presumably to people who want a bike for that purpose. My daily commute is less than 5K but in a place like Auckland where many people have to rent or buy a house increasingly distant from their place of work, a bike like this would make sound financial sense. It could also be fun.

The fuel tank is under the seat, the filler cap accessed from under the pillion seat. What would normally be the fuel tank is a lockable storage compartment, big enough to fit a helmet and the small toolkit. I've seen that claim before, however, and not been able to fit my helmets. So I got my helmets out and tried them.

The Shoei XR1000 was an easy fit, and the slightly larger Arai Quantum/f fitted snugly. The AGV GP Tech was too big, but then the shape of the latter must make it one of the biggest helmets around. Still, the space is big enough to be useful. Not ever having had such a compartment available I'm not sure what you'd use it for. Sunglasses, hat, camera and lunch? A change of underwear, a toothbrush, and a set of tie downs? Lots of possibilities...

The low(ish) 790mm seat height means the bike is accessible to the slightly vertically challenged.
That and the narrow seat mean the rest of us get a really good foot plant.

On start up the 700 feels and sounds like a bike. A very quiet bike. Honda resisted the temptation to put balancers on the balancers, they intended that the power plant feel like a motor bike engine. It does.

Although modestly enough, it does pull from idle. That, with the suspension, more touring than sporting, make it a pleasure to ride around town. The low weight and low power mean that the frame is not stressed and the bike handles and steers nicely in town - and on the open road.

The first time I hit the open road speed limit, I also hit the rev limiter. That was the only time I did that though. You have to recalibrate your riding style, and your expectations. Short shift like a diesel car, or maybe a Harley. There's no point in wringing the Honda's neck – nothing much happens. Except, of course, that you will hit the rev limiter.

Although there are six gears, top gear functions as an overdrive. If you want to accelerate on the open road you pretty much have to change down. At 100kph in top the rev counter reads 3000RPM. That's about 1000RPM less than any bike I've owned in recent history. The 700 is supposed to be capable of 185kph, but it may take a while to get there. Still, the bike has no trouble keeping up with other traffic.

The acceleration is definitely not going to wrench your arms out of their sockets. The 700 is apparently rated at a modest 47HP. There are several new bikes around that level now, or with that power level as an option. This is apparently to meet a new licensing requirement in the EEC. Forty seven ponies doesn't sound like much, and these days it isn't, but when I started riding we'd have thought that was pretty flash; Manx Norton territory... We've come a long way.

Although it is primarily intended to be a commuter or utility bike, the Honda is nicely finished. The designers reportedly intended the bike to offer owners reasons to feel pride in their purchase. Some welcome sunshine revealed that the white paint is, in fact, a metal flake finish.

As I traversed a mixture of city streets, main highways, and country roads, I was thinking that although the stated purpose is commuting you could definitely tour the 700. Touring at a necessarily leisurely pace admittedly, but that way you get to see more. My only reservation in this regard came when I experienced numbness in my unmentionables in under thirty minutes. That's a first. It may only have been a one-off as it didn't happen again in the couple of hours I had the bike.

A bike deliberately designed for these straitened economic times? Whether the Honda NC700S is the beginning of a new direction, or another blind alley in the development of motorcycles only time will tell. If, however, you are looking for a sweet handling new bike that runs on the smell of the proverbial oily rag - and shouldn't require a second mortgage - check out the Honda NC700S.

Thanks to Craig at Energy Honda for the loan of the bike.

vifferman
14th December 2012, 21:08
There's been a bit of a bikers' renaissance at work, with three new bikes there since I started in January. Joining my VFR are a new CB250 (new biker) and the bikes of two returning bikers: a new Hyosung 650 and a new NC700X - the 'adventure' version, I guess. The X model is a nicer looking beastie than the S; not a true adventure bike, but the styling looks better than the rather anodyne S model. When he gets his Yoshi fitted next week, hopefully it will sound less anodyne as well.

Brian d marge
14th December 2012, 21:55
We have one at wakoshi Honda rrp 600k yen makes it cheap
But me and a Swedish designer were lamenting the "gandam" styling which will be ruin of Japanese companies ( designing for Japan and not the customer,,,,excl america)
Anyway , the old Brits have a combustion efficiency of around 16 %...( my Enfield) whli from memory the best was as merc at 33 ish %)
So be interested in this bike :-)

Stephen

nadroj
15th December 2012, 06:06
Not ever having had such a compartment available I'm not sure what you'd use it for. Sunglasses, hat, camera and lunch? A change of underwear, a toothbrush, and a set of tie downs? Lots of possibilities...


You could drop your balls in there. Closeing the lid to the compartment would act as a kind of seatbelt......

davereid
15th December 2012, 07:14
Sadly these bikes are $6995US in the USA, but Honda NZ want $12495NZ here, and right now the NZ dollar is $0.85 to the US, so work it out yourself.

And overseas ABS is standard.

You can't even get an ABS model here.

pritch
15th December 2012, 09:27
You could drop your balls in there. Closeing the lid to the compartment would act as a kind of seatbelt......

Nah. I read on KB that it's safer to just mount a towbar ball in the middle of the seat...

HenryDorsetCase
15th December 2012, 09:52
Sadly these bikes are $6995US in the USA, but Honda NZ want $12495NZ here, and right now the NZ dollar is $0.85 to the US, so work it out yourself.

And overseas ABS is standard.

You can't even get an ABS model here.

yet another fantastic win from Poo Wing.

nerrrd
6th December 2013, 22:55
Looks like there's a runout special on at the moment for these if anyone is interested, $9995 down from $11,995.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/tourers/auction-483203346.htm

I'm almost tempted only I'd rather have the x version.

Might be phasing them out for the CB500s. There's a slightly upgraded 750 version announced in europe for next year, but that'll probably have a higher starting price if they bring it in.

pritch
7th December 2013, 09:49
I prefer the X too but the bike advertised should have ABS which is why it was more expensive. I don't understand the "run out" comment, I think it is still a current model. The NZ price was out of whack with other countries though as BueWing were just too greedy. Again.

nerrrd
7th December 2013, 10:14
I prefer the X too but the bike advertised should have ABS which is why it was more expensive. I don't understand the "run out" comment, I think it is still a current model. The NZ price was out of whack with other countries though as BueWing were just too greedy. Again.

I'm just quoting the Botany Honda trademe ad: "Was 11995 run out pricing of $9995!"

Here's a link to a road test of the new upgraded NC750X (there's an S version as well):

http://youtu.be/jv2nO5kmVVY

ABS is supposed to be standard across the board on the upgraded bike (NZ wasn't the only place to get the non-ABS versions) so if we get them they'll have it, but Blue Wing will probably chuck another grand on for the privilege (and the extra 70cc) :niceone:.

Motu
7th December 2013, 10:55
an NZ motorcycle dealer (John Dale?) riding a 350 single (Matchless ?) from Wellington to Auckland on a single tank of gas, as a sort of publicity stunt. He got extraordinarily low fuel consumption figures, way over 100 miles per gallon. And those old Brit singles didn't even have a particularly large tank.

Getting 100mpg out of a British bike was normal - I used to get that out of my 650 Triton, with all the fruit like E3134 cams etc. High 90's out of most other twins. They weren't efficient by modern day standards, but how come with these high tech bikes we can't get fuel economy anywhere near that. My 650 BMW puts out 48hp, similar to a 650 Triumph, weighs a bit more, but won't get half the mpg. Blame the Yanks - it's all about emissions.

AllanB
7th December 2013, 11:03
the 750 should not cost any more - it will most likely just be larger pistons - they still have to have piston and the hols they run in so zero difference other than the original set -up and they probably nick that from a Jaz R model or something.

Fucking Blue Wing and their arse pricing.

Decades back a Kawa dealer was in Japan with Kawasaki and was asked why the BR250 was not selling well in NZ - he stated it was too expensive, the Kawa Japan man was confused as he new the factory had priced them very keen to sell. Turned out the NZ importer though the rrp was way too low for such a spiffy ride and loaded it up (fat profit to them). Backfired of course and a very good bike sat in showrooms.

nudemetalz
7th December 2013, 21:13
***


Decades back a Kawa dealer was in Japan with Kawasaki and was asked why the BR250 was not selling well in NZ - he stated it was too expensive, the Kawa Japan man was confused as he new the factory had priced them very keen to sell. Turned out the NZ importer though the rrp was way too low for such a spiffy ride and loaded it up (fat profit to them). Backfired of course and a very good bike sat in showrooms.

A friend had a BR250 back in the early 90s. Remembered riding it and thinking what a great wee bike it was. Shame they didn't sell well.

Larksea
10th February 2014, 10:47
seems like a great bike for what it is. economical commuter

my understanding is that the earlier model (2012? not sure) had a minor issue with the gearing ratio which meant you hit the rev limiter more than you would want to. But that's been sorted with the newer models.

From the reviews ive seen while it has adequate ponies, the low end torque is the talking point. Very good it seems.

I look at it and wonder why they did not drop it from 670cc to 660 or just under and have it also be a LAMS bike. maybe they just couldn't manage it with the 1/2 jaz engine.

forget that for 2014 though its now an NC750, I think they have added 75cc increased the power a bit and kept the fuel econ about the same.

Gremlin
10th February 2014, 10:59
I look at it and wonder why they did not drop it from 670cc to 660 or just under and have it also be a LAMS bike. maybe they just couldn't manage it with the 1/2 jaz engine.
Because our market barely registers a blip in Honda's global program.

They do have the CB500 range now, that is LAMS compliant.

pritch
10th February 2014, 11:36
I look at it and wonder why they did not drop it from 670cc to 660 or just under and have it also be a LAMS bike. maybe they just couldn't manage it with the 1/2 jaz engine.



Nobody makes bikes for the LAMS list. Everybody, though is making bikes for the EU regulations, and there is now a whole range of bikes around 48bhp or whatever is the limit set by the EU.

Just another instance of those who make the rules in this country charging full speed ahead up a blind alley.

HenryDorsetCase
10th February 2014, 12:48
Just another instance of those who make the rules in this country charging full speed ahead up a blind alley.But its for your SAFETY.

Surely you're in favour of safety? and kittens? Unless you're some sort of commie weirdo. ? because only a commie weirdo would be against safety and kittens.

its an election year so the motto is safer kittens for all.

Larksea
10th February 2014, 13:07
I don't know the exact details but I thought we (NZ) were not the only place to apply the lams specifications, I mean don't Australia use the same system?

yeah no big deal its not lams and there is the cb500, just a shame its so close 10cc too big... You would have to think it would help sales if it was LAMS

a quick look it seems lams does sit a little more restricted than the A2 category, the NC700 would probably fit that.

HenryDorsetCase
10th February 2014, 13:18
I don't know the exact details but I thought we (NZ) were not the only place to apply the lams specifications, I mean don't Australia use the same system?

yeah no big deal its not lams and there is the cb500, just a shame its so close 10cc too big... You would have to think it would help sales if it was LAMS

a quick look it seems lams does sit a little more restricted than the A2 category, the NC700 would probably fit that.

we use Australia's LAMS system actually. but yeah.

I think it should be compulsory for learners to have GSXR1000's.

If they live longer than six months, then they DESERVE to live. If not, well, fuck them.

nerrrd
10th February 2014, 21:25
Forget that for 2014 though its now an NC750, I think they have added 75cc increased the power a bit and kept the fuel econ about the same.


They do have the CB500 range now, that is LAMS compliant.

I tested both the NC700X and the CB500X before choosing to go with the latter when I recently upgraded my bike. I was most comfortable on the 700, but ended up going for the 500, basically because I was nearly as comfortable on that and it seemed a better value proposition - ABS, bigger fuel tank, NZ LAMS compliant, cheaper to register. On a side note, having the fuel filler under the pillion seat on the NC would be awkward for me as I use mine to carry items that won't fit anywhere else there (mainly a tent etc), and it would be a pain to have to remove it every time I filled up (although I probably could have figured something out).

If the 750 had been available at the time I probably would have gone for that (they offered me a 700X for the same price as the 500X but I just couldn't get over the fact that the 500 seemed better spec'd). They weren't able to say if the higher spec 750 was coming to NZ. If it does and I'm bored with the 500 by then (although I'm pretty happy with it so far) I might look at trading up, just 'cos I like the idea of the NC bikes - I'm a hard-core commuter :cool:

nerrrd
23rd April 2014, 19:51
They weren't able to say if the higher spec 750 was coming to NZ. If it does and I'm bored with the 500 by then (although I'm pretty happy with it so far) I might look at trading up, just 'cos I like the idea of the NC bikes - I'm a hard-core commuter :cool:

Quoting myself, I'll probably go blinder. Turns out the NC750X is coming, dammit.

http://www.hondamotorbikes.co.nz/bikes/road-bikes/adventure/2014-nc750x/

calfinm
24th April 2014, 15:14
Quoting myself, I'll probably go blinder. Turns out the NC750X is coming, dammit.

http://www.hondamotorbikes.co.nz/bikes/road-bikes/adventure/2014-nc750x/

I wouldn't be too fussed about that, by all accounts its not really any different in reality than the 700. If the 700 didn't float your boat before then the 750 wont either.
I test road both the CB500x and the NC700x back to back as well and almost got convinced on the 500 thanks to the livelier engine . Ended up going for the 700x and after a couple of rides to adapt to the motor knew I had made the right decision. Such an easy commuter, barely sniffs fuel, smooth, and whilst we are ripped off (as usual) by the import mafia here its still a cheap bike to purchase and maintain. niggles like the tank under the seat can be dealt with, having just done 3 weeks around the south island it wasn't as painful as I thought it would be.. coupled with I often filled up every second fill than some of the guys.

And..now I have the "Frunk" (front trunk) I cant understand how i lived without it, a dozen beer and a bottle of wine..no problem. No more shopping bags down the front of the jacket for me.

nerrrd
24th April 2014, 19:11
Ended up going for the 700x and after a couple of rides to adapt to the motor knew I had made the right decision.

Glad to hear you're so happy with yours :) not drastically unhappy with the wee CB, but I'm more of a pootler really, and while it will pootle, it's really much happier ridden in that 'livelier' manner (using my definition of 'lively' here, which is probably most people's definition of 'are we awake yet?'). I preferred the NC over the CB originally, just couldn't get past the extra 'value' in the 500.

Zapf
24th April 2014, 23:40
Hello, fellow 700X owner here.

I got mine not long after they came out early last year and have put over 10'000k on mine in just over 3 months. They are fast enough for these speed restricted times, this is from the references of having had CBR's / GSXR's and Blackbirds in the past.

Yes it runs on a wiff of fuel, and can be ridden WOT with the focus more on riding well with good lines.

A small turbo will be useful on the 700 :)

tobbera
25th April 2014, 11:49
What kind of fuel economy are you getting? KTM Duke is mentioned in the original post. My Duke 200 takes 2.5L / 100 km when commuting between CBD and Takapuna in Auckland. 3.3L if I really gun it.

nerrrd
25th April 2014, 14:57
What kind of fuel economy are you getting? KTM Duke is mentioned in the original post. My Duke 200 takes 2.5L / 100 km when commuting between CBD and Takapuna in Auckland. 3.3L if I really gun it.

On the 500 the average consumption is currently reading 5.5L / 100km :weep: but I haven't reset it for ages (and did a day of low speed gravel riding a couple of weeks ago). From memory I think I was getting 3.5 just commuting (no motorways).

calfinm
26th April 2014, 14:20
What kind of fuel economy are you getting? KTM Duke is mentioned in the original post. My Duke 200 takes 2.5L / 100 km when commuting between CBD and Takapuna in Auckland. 3.3L if I really gun it.

My average on Fuelly is 3.2L. The best 2.6L , worst Ive managed 3.7L

vifferman
27th April 2014, 21:20
I should post a little update. The chap at work who has an NC700X bought it because he thought it might be bad to have another hoon bike, having written off a couple - one while wheelieing at speed. After having owned some impressive and quick bikes in the past, I was sure he'd be bored with the 700 after a short time, especially when he said he was thinking about Buells. Then one day, he said he'd yoinked the NC up on the rear wheel, just to see if he could, and a couple of days later, he said he'd ridden a wheelie about 1.5km down the road, and some guy had pulled up beside him, and said, "I saw your wheelie back there!", so of course he thought, "Uh-oh; a cop!", but the guy just said, "Great wheelie, Bro!"
After some time on the thing he seems to be quite settled on it, and the Yoshi gives it a very nice rumble, so it doesn't sound quite so anodyne.
I'll stick the the VFR though, thanks.

Erelyes
27th April 2014, 22:57
Quoting myself, I'll probably go blinder. Turns out the NC750X is coming, dammit.

Wonder if they'll bring the NC750S.

nerrrd
27th April 2014, 23:13
...and the Yoshi gives it a very nice rumble, so it doesn't sound quite so anodyne.

Reminds me of the course I did on the 500 with a Harley, a Vmax, a Victory and a GSXR1000 (I think), they laughed.

50Shades
15th February 2015, 10:36
I rode the CB500x, NC700 and the new NC750X, both the CB and 700 are at my price point ($9995)and I wished I had never riden the 750.
The bars on the 750 are higher and 50mm wider than the 700, also the seat is not as slippy which I like, so the 750 is now the pick of the bunch for me. Now that we are thinking more money is opens up other options....I'll end up at the MT-09 yet!! Bloody decisions decisions!

vifferman
15th February 2015, 11:59
Another update: the guy at work who owned the NC700X traded it on a KTM 690; I guess he got a bit bored with the mundanity of the NC....

pritch
17th February 2015, 07:51
Let's know how he likes the KTM?
TIA

vifferman
17th February 2015, 11:31
Let's know how he likes the KTM?
TIA
He loves it, especially the torque (pops it up on the back wheel just using a bit of throttle). He did mention the fuel economy being not as good :wacko:, and he misses being able to stick so much stuff in the 'tank', but overall he sounds pretty happy widdit. Of course, there are other differences: more vibration, a bit wider (at the 'bars) for 'filtering' through traffic, stuff like that. No regrets though.

Latest update - the Katoom apparently has the facility to load up to 9 maps on the ECU (I think it comes standard with 3), each selectable via a switch under the seat. At the moment it's running some fairly safe, vanilla map while it's being run in, but soon the beast will be unleashed...