Do speaker systems sound quality degrade over time?

[bogan]

Have a Sony 5.1 sound system which is about 9 years old now. I'm thinking the low end isn't what it used to be, does this happen? or has my bike just taught me what real low end sounds like?

Would look into upgrading if this was the case, maybe just the sub or the driver, dunno, need to figure out where the problem is first.

[bogan]

The other internet tells me it might be caps or the gain pot, the sub does have a gain pot on it so might be a good place to start yeh?

[madandy]

The cheap stuff does, yes. Foam surrounds fall apart, paper cones absorb moisture then dy over many cycles and degrade, voice coils get scratchy...
Of course it coud be your ears and brain...they change too :whistle:

[Scuba_Steve]

given the nature of speakers they do wear out, whether this is your problem or not is another story

[Geeen]

Tough question. Over time the rubber surrounds do break down, but this is speaker dependant. I've seen 20yo + speakers that are perfect and 5yo speakers that are rooted. The subs that come with those types of systems only ever have a mid bass bloom. Go to a decent hifi shop and listen to some proper subs. Or come for a wander to the waikato and have a listen to mine. It rolls off at 9 hertz.:cool::D

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[bogan]

Got some tone generator software to see if I could narrow it down a bit. Still seems good around the 40hz mark, but not very much between 100 and 200, which I think is where a lot of the low end in music is contained. Which probably suggests the sub speaker cone, rather than the gain pot, or caps on the amp right?

[Berries]

the other internet tells me it might be caps
CAPS ARE ALWAYS louder.

[FJRider]

Maybe ... it's your ears that are buggered. Now YOU are 9 years older ... some degradation is to be expected :pinch:

[SMOKEU]

Buy a decent ATX PSU with a single 12V rail. You want at least 50A going to the 12V rail, or more if you really hate your neighbours. Buy an appropriate car amp and sub, wire it all up and you've got an excellent bang for buck ratio compared to traditional home audio. That will keep you happy for a while.

[bogan]

Are there any visual signs to look for which signify speaker degradation?


Buy a decent ATX PSU with a single 12V rail. You want at least 50A going to the 12V rail, or more if you really hate your neighbours. Buy an appropriate car amp and sub, wire it all up and you've got an excellent bang for buck ratio compared to traditional home audio. That will keep you happy for a while.

Thing is, I already have traditional home audio, if its just the speaker, buying a new one will be much cheaper than car stuff, and give better results.

[Geeen]

Got some tone generator software to see if I could narrow it down a bit. Still seems good around the 40hz mark, but not very much between 100 and 200, which I think is where a lot of the low end in music is contained. Which probably suggests the sub speaker cone, rather than the gain pot, or caps on the amp right?

The 1 - 200hz range should be covered by your speakers, 40 - 50hz is usually the crossover point between sub and speakers. The sub should do everything from about 50hz down until it rolls off.
Try having a look through the setup menus on your amplifier to see what options it gives you

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[p.dath]

Have a Sony 5.1 sound system which is about 9 years old now. I'm thinking the low end isn't what it used to be, does this happen? or has my bike just taught me what real low end sounds like?

Would look into upgrading if this was the case, maybe just the sub or the driver, dunno, need to figure out where the problem is first.

+1 to everyone else. Now I know you are a very mechnically minded person. So consider what you know about movings parts, then then consider what happens to moving speaker cones after 9 years, and then there are the electronics (funnily enough, mechanical failure is one of the most common causes of electrical device failure, due to the slight flexing caused by electronic components heating and cooling as they are turned on and off).

And we know you know "dabble" in electrical engineering - the AMP is effectively a "high" current switching device.

[bogan]

The 1 - 200hz range should be covered by your speakers, 40 - 50hz is usually the crossover point between sub and speakers. The sub should do everything from about 50hz down until it rolls off.
Try having a look through the setup menus on your amplifier to see what options it gives you

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No setup menus or sub frequency cut-off options on the amp. The sub has never been a super low end unit, 30Hz is about as low as it goes. http://diagramas.diagramasde.com/audio/SS-WGV8.pdf found a service manual for the sub, checked the volume control on the circuit and its outputing the right voltage.


+1 to everyone else. Now I know you are a very mechnically minded person. So consider what you know about movings parts, then then consider what happens to moving speaker cones after 9 years, and then there are the electronics (funnily enough, mechanical failure is one of the most common causes of electrical device failure, due to the slight flexing caused by electronic components heating and cooling as they are turned on and off).

And we know you know "dabble" in electrical engineering - the AMP is effectively a "high" current switching device.

Can't see anything obviously wrong with the speaker. Would like to know which is the problem so I can fix just that part. Guess if its not obvious, I can just put it down to wear and tear and re-purpose the whole system, would still make a mean garage setup; might do well in the lounge also, but only stereo input rather than full surround sound.

The amp certainly is high current, I've not run it over 7/35 volumes for years though so I doubt its a TPD issue.

[bogan]

Maybe ... it's your ears that are buggered. Now YOU are 9 years older ... some degradation is to be expected :pinch:

Well it does sound pretty good underwater so you may be right. Just been pissing about with correcting it in software, the environment presets are actually pretty good, Asus audio drivers making it sound like a club all up in this bitch. Some of the environments are pretty good also, like auditorium and concert hall, others like sewer pipe and underwater also produce good sound, but I'm a little confused as to how the design team came up with them...

[Geeen]

If you want an easy check of you drivers GENTLY press the cone back into the surround, if you feel any rubbing or friction that driver is blown. Make sure you are GENTLE though. If you do have a blown driver scent audio in Auckland rebuild them. Then it becomes a cost issue. The other thing to check is the phasing on the sub. If your sub is out of phase your bass will disappear. On the sub should be a switch with 0 and 180 phase. Try the same track in both positions.

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[bogan]

If you want an easy check of you drivers GENTLY press the cone back into the surround, if you feel any rubbing or friction that driver is blown. Make sure you are GENTLE though. If you do have a blown driver scent audio in Auckland rebuild them. Then it becomes a cost issue. The other thing to check is the phasing on the sub. If your sub is out of phase your bass will disappear. On the sub should be a switch with 0 and 180 phase. Try the same track in both positions.

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No phasing switch, movement seems fine. Its a lot better with the software correction, so I think I'll leave it as is a while longer.

My next question though, is what's good for home theater sound? Are higher end ($800ish) HTiBs worth it for the audio? or are you paying mainly for fandangled bluray processing etc. The only high end features I want are wireless rear speakers and tallboy speakers so I don't have to make up stands for them, in addition to good sound quality of course.

[Geeen]

No phasing switch, movement seems fine. Its a lot better with the software correction, so I think I'll leave it as is a while longer.

My next question though, is what's good for home theater sound? Are higher end ($800ish) HTiBs worth it for the audio? or are you paying mainly for fandangled bluray processing etc. The only high end features I want are wireless rear speakers and tallboy speakers so I don't have to make up stands for them, in addition to good sound quality of course.

Most of the HT in a Box systems are much of a muchness in my experience. My only advice would be to seriously think about how important wireless rear speakers are. I haven't seen any that work reliably, most I've seen use a send/recieve unit that cuts out if you walk in front of it. Plus cable sounds better.

"Whats good for Home Theatre sound?" This depends on you budget, I had one customer whose HT has pushed over $2 million, and is still evolving..... For a decent kick arse setup I would be spending $2 - 4k ish. My 2 channel set up is a small house deposits worth (I love my Wife). Only you can decide what is the best bang for the bucks you are prepared (or allowed) to spend.

[Scuba_Steve]

If it helps I'm still happy with my Logitech Z-680's (modern ver Z906) But I'm no Audiophile, I was just after Good sound with a good punch at a good price in a 5.1 system, The Logitech filled all criteria. I would recommend to anyone wanting a good value/sound out of box setup.

[bogan]

Most of the HT in a Box systems are much of a muchness in my experience. My only advice would be to seriously think about how important wireless rear speakers are. I haven't seen any that work reliably, most I've seen use a send/recieve unit that cuts out if you walk in front of it. Plus cable sounds better.

"Whats good for Home Theatre sound?" This depends on you budget, I had one customer whose HT has pushed over $2 million, and is still evolving..... For a decent kick arse setup I would be spending $2 - 4k ish. My 2 channel set up is a small house deposits worth (I love my Wife). Only you can decide what is the best bang for the bucks you are prepared (or allowed) to spend.

Budget is sub 1k, can't spend more on the noise than I did on the TV. Good tips about the wireless rears, cutting out would be more annoying than routing a cable for sure.


If it helps I'm still happy with my Logitech Z-680's (modern ver Z906) But I'm no Audiophile, I was just after Good sound with a good punch at a good price in a 5.1 system, The Logitech filled all criteria. I would recommend to anyone wanting a good value/sound out of box setup.

That sounds like my situation and basically what I'm after. Guess it'll transfer nicely to my PC if I were to go with a more expensive kick arse setup at a later date.

[The Lone Rider]

1. Cones wear out over time, depending on how hard you drive them. To make them last, have slightly higher rated root mean square on the speakers to what the amp is going to put in them.

2. If you've moved the "sub" or any of the speakers, that will change the way it sounds to your ear as far as frequency response. Positioning of furniture changes it as well. Positioning and furniture will not change directionality of low frequencies, as the human ear does not experience the haas effect with very low frequencies (or at least the brain doesnt decode it).

3. Don't bother with a sine generator. It's a consumer system. It will not have a flat response, and most likely will have what we called a squashed McDonalds M when placed on a response chart. Unless you had a dbA reading across the spectrum from 9 years ago, you have nothing to compare it to now.

If you wanted to get carried away, get your hands on Smarlive and a reference microphone. That will tell you exactly what the speakers are doing. Both could probably be rented for a huge fee from a sound company.

4. Furniture, books etc effect the way it sounds. Put up new curtains? Filled up a bookcase?

5. Always keep subs on the floor. Porting needs to be unobstructed, and rear porting needs to have the sub placed in front of a wall with a little bit of space

6. Low end music content is from 100hz down. The main omph from a kick drum, for example, is about 50hz

7. If you are 40 years or older, 30hz.. or even 40hz and lower you probably wouldn't be able to audibly hear without significant gain added.

8. If the cone is damaged and becoming dislodged from the spider, you are likely to hear rattling. Run just the sub with the other speakers unplugged.

9. Any system can be made to sound reasonable, without spending a lot of money. Find a system that has an advertised response chart for each speaker. Then buy a 10 band graphic EQ (or 15, or 30) for each channel and gain full control of your sound. Then the question becomes more about the root mean square output.

10. You can also run dynamic compressors that will do two things - increase the overall loudness through the system (and reducing the dynamic range), and also allow you to set an absolute amplitude before being dynamically limited (thus saving you from damaging speakers).

[imdying]

Z680s are kick arse for gaming. The amount of bass is unbearable for anything else though unfortunately; in the end I used them on the lowest bass setting +1 (0 means it turns the sub off). I suspect they simply must have been faulty though, it was literally unbearable... but, it make explosions sound wonderful :)

Mine stopped working when the control box fell from the TV in the earthquake, but other than that never missed a beat. I'll reuse the satellites in the garage at some stage.

[Teflon]

Budget is sub 1k, can't spend more on the noise than I did on the TV. Good tips about the wireless rears, cutting out would be more annoying than routing a cable for sure.



That sounds like my situation and basically what I'm after. Guess it'll transfer nicely to my PC if I were to go with a more expensive kick arse setup at a later date.

For that amount I would go 2 channel... start with something like this:

Crown XL1000 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/CROWN-XLS-1000-DRIVECORE-AMPLIFIER-XLS1000-POWER-AMP-w-Macro-Tech-Knobs-/170963924670?pt=US_Pro_Audio_Amplifiers&hash=item27ce3e76be)

Nad or Rotel pre (http://www.trademe.co.nz/electronics-photography/home-audio/amplifiers-tuners/auction-548819013.htm)

Or buy a older mid to high end 7 channel receiver with pre outs for each channel.. just keep adding power amps for each channel until youre happy

I have very efficient speakers that takes fuck all to drive them... loud enough to keep my neighborhood in check... fuckers

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/1LrekXqOvfg?list=PLbbo9wL8Pb0yaH_xT_8e9QlVKQARZGR4 q" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Play that clip... if your house isn't shaking, then your system is lacking..

[bogan]

Think I'll go with the Logitech Z906, for the moment at least. Thanks for the tips though.

Funny that you posted that, I was just watching another vid with here in it not 15mins before

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The world needs more electric violinists!

[Teflon]

Nice... Time to switch over to the htpc i think.. She looks great on a large screen

[Headbanger]

I would recommend investing in an entry level amp, You can come in well under a grand if you shop smart and start off with just a pair of speakers, You can add the surround speakers as budget permits, if you even still want them after the step up.


I picked up this from jb hifi just before xmas for $220

http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/home-entertainment/1292557/yamaha-rx-v373



I wouldn't recommend anyone spend over $100 on any logitech speakers, They make reasonable speakers to sit beside your monitor but that's where the goodness ends, If the budget exceeds that amount then its better spent elsewhere.

[bogan]

I would recommend investing in an entry level amp, You can come in well under a grand if you shop smart and start off with just a pair of speakers, You can add the surround speakers as budget permits, if you even still want them after the step up.


I picked up this from jb hifi just before xmas for $220

http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/home-entertainment/1292557/yamaha-rx-v373



I wouldn't recommend anyone spend over $100 on any logitech speakers, They make reasonable speakers to sit beside your monitor but that's where the goodness ends, If the budget exceeds that amount then its better spent elsewhere.

If I could get it at that price it would be very tempting, but pricespy shows it as a $700 unit, and JB's site is fucking useless.

[Headbanger]

If I could get it at that price it would be very tempting, but pricespy shows it as a $700 unit, and JB's site is fucking useless.

Also,I picked mine up in Aussie,I don't know if NZ jb hifi carry the same lines. :wacko: So not really helpful at all.....

However if you are prepared to wait there are good deals from time to time, I bought a similar pioneer amp from HN a couple years back for $400.

Before that all my equipment came from trademe for a pittance, I picked up a few thousand dollars worth of gear for under $500, Seems a lot of good gear doesn't move due to the cost of putting the gear on a courier. Of course their is extra risk involved, But you can stipulate you want to hear it in action before purchase if you are picking it up.

[The Lone Rider]

You could also go to the library and look at consumer reports.

Or pay their little fee, and look up ratings & reviews on their website.


Hasn't let me down so far - my new heat pump picked using their website. Bloody good one to.