Electrical woes

[98tls]

Decided to give the TLS an oil change today so went for a ride to warm things up (ran fine) then dumped and replaced the oil,turned on the key,lights came on and am pretty sure the pump primed,just about to hit the starter when everything died,no lights/power whatsoever,checked all the fuses which were all fine.Never been to flash on things lecky and everyone i know that might be able to help is on holiday so whats next guys?

[FJRider]

Take a gander at the main fuse.

If that's ok ... check the manufacturer ... is it a suzuki .. ??

[98tls]

Take a gander at the main fuse.

If that's ok ... check the manufacturer ... is it a suzuki .. ??

"checked all the fuses".

[FJRider]

"checked all the fuses".

Check circuit diagram for a "fuseable link" ... a fuse that is more a wire than a fuse. But still a fuse. Usually on (or just off) the battery.

[98tls]

Check circuit diagram for a "fuseable link" ... a fuse that is more a wire than a fuse. But still a fuse. Usually on (or just off) the battery.

Will do............

[FJRider]

Will do............

Most battery manufacturers seldom guarantee their product beyond 12 months. Stick the jumper leads on across the terminals ... and see if you have some power. (lights up the dash)

Eliminate one problem before you start looking elsewhere.

[bogan]

One of the easier things to do, is play around with the key contacts. Not a definitive test, but short of a multimeter and circuit diagram fuse checking is about the only definitive test I can think of anyway.

Anyway, give the back of the ignition barrel a bit of a tap, and flick the key through its positions and see if anything lights up.

[Edbear]

Most battery manufacturers seldom guarantee their product beyond 12 months. Stick the jumper leads on across the terminals ... and see if you have some power. (lights up the dash)

Eliminate one problem before you start looking elsewhere.

Did someone mention "battery"? :whistle: :innocent:

[Zedder]

Did someone mention "battery"? :whistle: :innocent:

I didn't expect the Shorai Inquisition!

[FJRider]

Anyway, give the back of the ignition barrel a bit of a tap, and flick the key through its positions and see if anything lights up.

That is probably the only original part left on the whole bike .... :yes:

[Edbear]

I didn't expect the Shorai Inquisition!

Well, I'm inquisitive.... ;)

[Zedder]

Well, I'm inquisitive.... ;)

That's good Ed, however, the correct response was from a Monty Python sketch called "The Spanish Inquisition".

Please familiarise yourself with it for future reference.

[Edbear]

That's good Ed, however, the correct response was from a Monty Python sketch called "The Spanish Inquisition".

Please familiarise yourself with it for future reference.

Oh, but of course! :yes:

[Zedder]

Oh, but of course! :yes:

That's the spirit.

[98tls]

:brick:Had bloody visitors show up,fine i thought and stayed in the shed until her indoors came outdoors and gave me the "dont be so bloody rude" stare,more her friends than mine but it didnt ssm to matter so had to sit here pretending to be interested until finally they have fucked off.Didnt get much more done other than after reading a bit on the TL site about a few others problems and inspecting said lecky connections (which look fine).Batterys charging though i still doubt thats it,will find out in the morning,if so its a pretty catastrophic battery crash as i posted earlier it cranked fine prior to changing the oil.

[98tls]

Well, I'm inquisitive.... ;)

Have no fear Ed as it hasnt had the one i bought off you in it,if this ones naffed it will do though.

[paturoa]

Have you got a meter?

[98tls]

Have you got a meter?

Not myself mate but i can get one,as i posted earlier i am pretty good with things mechanical but naff with lecky,sure though i could do some basics if you tell me what to start with.

[bogan]

though i could do some basics if you tell me what to start with.

hmmm, well what size hammers have you got?

[paturoa]

Not myself mate but i can get one,as i posted earlier i am pretty good with things mechanical but naff with lecky,sure though i could do some basics if you tell me what to start with.

Cool. Get your self one and we can "talk" you thru it. Basically you set it to DC volts (eg 20) and start at the battery and work you way into the bike from there.

The meter should read high 12 volts from the terminals thru to the ignition switch etc. This isn't a fool proof method but generally works well when there is nothing happening. Have you got a circuit diagram or can find one on TL.net?

[Matt_TG]

Kill switch?


Speaking from experience.

[98tls]

Cool. Get your self one and we can "talk" you thru it. Basically you set it to DC volts (eg 20) and start at the battery and work you way into the bike from there.

The meter should read high 12 volts from the terminals thru to the ignition switch etc. This isn't a fool proof method but generally works well when there is nothing happening. Have you got a circuit diagram or can find one on TL.net?

Righto,phone call has sorted a meter (bloke that could operate it is away on holiday).Will pick it up tommorow,cant do anything at the moment as ive put the battery on charge though as posted i doubt it the battery,hopefully i am wrong.Theres a few things i will try in the morning ie Bogans suggestion then get busy with the meter i guess if the battery is charged and fine.The TLs getting on some so no doubt its simply something simple has given up the ghost.Yep can get a diagram off TLZone.No rush so will post up my progress as i go,if your online can you check in at this thread if you have a minute to spare in case ive missed something.Thanks for your time to reply,as much as this kind of thing is annoying i love mucking around with bikes enough to find this interesting and will be habndy to pick up a few tips re the lecky side.(always avoided it like the plauge).What i am grateful for is that it just didnt die somewhere in the middle of nowhere eh,in the garage is just handy enough.

[98tls]

Kill switch?


Speaking from experience.

Being an old bugger ive fallen into that trap myself years back mate,somewhat red faced.Nope double checked that.

[paturoa]

I've got a booking with a chain saw tomorrow, love buring them fossile fuels!. But I will be watching when you come on line.

[paturoa]

Does the TL have the clutch cutout and side stand switches too?

Edit: do the idiot lights also come on?

[98tls]

I've got a booking with a chain saw tomorrow, love buring them fossile fuels!. But I will be watching when you come on line.

Have fun eh.Many thanks for your replys here,very helpful.

[98tls]

Does the TL have the clutch cutout and side stand switches too?

Edit: do the idiot lights also come on?

Yes it does,ive read of a few problems with the sidestand switch,i had mine on a paddock stand when it went poof.No lights anywhere mate,turn the key and nothing,no lights anywhere nor does the fuel pump prime etc.

[paturoa]

Yes it does,ive read of a few problems with the sidestand switch,i had mine on a paddock stand when it went poof.No lights anywhere mate,turn the key and nothing,no lights anywhere nor does the fuel pump prime etc.

Those are good symptoms to troublt shoot.

[98tls]

Those are good symptoms to troublt shoot.

Yep,the fact thats its a complete loss of everything may well be easier to sort than most,been doing a fair amout of searching ie TLZONE/PLANET etc and hope its not as hard to find as some of the threads ive read.

[Akzle]

autoranging pocket DMM: bout 25$ from jaycar.
i carry one with (it's a dick smith one, from back in the day when dick smith wasn't shit), does everything but current measurement. for which i have a handy dandy 200mv current shunt. (and three other multimeters to choose from)

OR
supercheap have 20$ jobbies with 10A range or te ware-whare have a 20A one for about 40$.
OR
jaycar have non contact clamp meters which will do some massive current range, bout 90$ though.

well worth les investment, i reckon.


no lights at all indicates mainest fuse or fusible link (if they have them on your bike?)
i know you checked, check again. check also the fuse box - is it rusty as shit? are the crimp lugs in the back of the harnesses all in good order?
also, an odd problem i had with my truck, but when the coil isn't connected to the dizzy, i get the same symptom (no electrical showing up)
-did you knock something (wire, plug, lead etc) off when doing your oil change?

[98tls]

autoranging pocket DMM: bout 25$ from jaycar.
i carry one with (it's a dick smith one, from back in the day when dick smith wasn't shit), does everything but current measurement. for which i have a handy dandy 200mv current shunt. (and three other multimeters to choose from)

OR
supercheap have 20$ jobbies with 10A range or te ware-whare have a 20A one for about 40$.
OR
jaycar have non contact clamp meters which will do some massive current range, bout 90$ though.

well worth les investment, i reckon.


no lights at all indicates mainest fuse or fusible link (if they have them on your bike?)
i know you checked, check again. check also the fuse box - is it rusty as shit? are the crimp lugs in the back of the harnesses all in good order?
also, an odd problem i had with my truck, but when the coil isn't connected to the dizzy, i get the same symptom (no electrical showing up)
-did you knock something (wire, plug, lead etc) off when doing your oil change?

Cheers,as you say to me anyway with very limited knowledge i am thinking the main fuse or thereabouts,did remove it and it was fine though just for the "you never know" thing i replaced it with the spare.The bikes old but well loved and has been to bits a few times and been put back together when mucking about though not so recently.Fuse box etc looks all good but will have another gander and maybe have a look at individual connectors etc.The fusible link thing i havent sorted yet ie wether it has any or not,will do.

[paturoa]

So for tomorrow.....

Given that you did an oil change makes me suspect the side stand circuit as that is in the general location.

1) Set the meter to DC VOLTS (and select a voltage bigger than 12 if it isn't autoranging) Test the batt first and you should see near 13v if you've charged it over night. Put the probes on the meter battery terminals them selves. If it looks good then turn on the ignition key and the voltage should only drop a few tenths of a volt. Given that it is dead then prob no change.

Leave the key switched on if you see NO voltage change. If you smell the magic blue smoke that comes from electrical stuff then .... turn the key off and get the fire extinguisher?

2) Now test the voltage on the wiring itself attached to the battery, not the batt terminals themselves (to eliminate the terminals). Not the bolts either.
3) Then put the black lead somewhere on the engine and the voltage should be good from the postive side of the battery as well. (Testing the earth side of things).

Zooks normally have the main power head off from the battery in a big fat wire to a combo 30amp / starter relay. From that fuse it goes to the starter relay and the power circuit. The power circuit goes to the ignition switch, then to another fuse, then to the side stand relay, then to to kill switch, then to a common rail to the ECU and other stuff.

4) Take the plastic cover off the starter relay 30 amp fuse combo thing and you should see 2 metal bits on the top of the fuse. Using the meter black to earth test both sides of the fuse, you should see over 12v. Also test both sides of the relay. only one should show 12v.

It gets complicated from here.......

[98tls]

Partys over.1st pic is just after it went poof,second is admitting defeat,even a box of Bourbon for inspiration didnt help:scratch:Will resume in the morrow.Thanks for the help so far you lot.

[paturoa]

Did you check the tyre pressure?

[jellywrestler]

3) Then put the black lead somewhere on the engine and the voltage should be good from the postive side of the battery as well. (Testing the earth side of things).

may sound pedantic but this needs to be on a steel part, ie not paint as it wont register, and not the carb/injection bodies as they may well be rubber mounted....

[bogan]

Well, at least if all goes awry it'll still be a nice ornament :innocent:

+1 to paturoa's advice. If that doesn't work, find and post up a wiring diagram and someone here can talk you through the next bit I'm sure.

[paturoa]

may sound pedantic but this needs to be on a steel part, ie not paint as it wont register, and not the carb/injection bodies as they may well be rubber mounted....

Given the thickness of paint on zooks, it prob wouldn;t make much diff~?

[98tls]

So for tomorrow.....

Given that you did an oil change makes me suspect the side stand circuit as that is in the general location.

1) Set the meter to DC VOLTS (and select a voltage bigger than 12 if it isn't autoranging) Test the batt first and you should see near 13v if you've charged it over night. Put the probes on the meter battery terminals them selves. If it looks good then turn on the ignition key and the voltage should only drop a few tenths of a volt. Given that it is dead then prob no change.

Leave the key switched on if you see NO voltage change. If you smell the magic blue smoke that comes from electrical stuff then .... turn the key off and get the fire extinguisher?

2) Now test the voltage on the wiring itself attached to the battery, not the batt terminals themselves (to eliminate the terminals). Not the bolts either.
3) Then put the black lead somewhere on the engine and the voltage should be good from the postive side of the battery as well. (Testing the earth side of things).

Zooks normally have the main power head off from the battery in a big fat wire to a combo 30amp / starter relay. From that fuse it goes to the starter relay and the power circuit. The power circuit goes to the ignition switch, then to another fuse, then to the side stand relay, then to to kill switch, then to a common rail to the ECU and other stuff.

4) Take the plastic cover off the starter relay 30 amp fuse combo thing and you should see 2 metal bits on the top of the fuse. Using the meter black to earth test both sides of the fuse, you should see over 12v. Also test both sides of the relay. only one should show 12v.

It gets complicated from here.......

Cheers P,will do.Batterys indicating fully charged on the meter so will see what happens with that in the morrow.Very very helpful stuff thank you.

[98tls]

Did you check the tyre pressure?

No but just about everything else,the mrs just remarked "thank god its electrical or the thing would be in bits in the morning":yes:;)If it was mechanical i would simply buy some more bourbon and spend the night in the shed making it right,sparks n things scare me so i will await the meter thingy.:bye:

[FJRider]

No but just about everything else,the mrs just remarked "thank god its electrical or the thing would be in bits in the morning":yes:;)If it was mechanical i would simply buy some more bourbon and spend the night in the shed making it right,sparks n things scare me so i will await the meter thingy.:bye:

Have you tried this site .. ??

http://www.tlzone.net/forums/suzuki-tl1000r-tl1000s-forum/119489-wiring-diagram.html

[FJRider]

Looking at the diagram ... on/at the Starter relay (bottom right) shown to the left of the letter M (Main Fuse) is the symbol (I think) for a fusible link.

[bogan]

Looking at the diagram ... on/at the Starter relay (bottom right) shown to the left of the letter M (Main Fuse) is the symbol (I think) for a fusible link.

That'll relate to that large size blade fuse he has already checked I would think (same symbol used for blade fuses as for fuseable links), which he has checked. Still one of the first places to stick the multimeter anyway. Or maybe he has some more 'friends' around :laugh:

Hard to read wiring diagram, couldn't you find a color coded one? :dodge:

[FJRider]

That'll relate to that large size blade fuse he has already checked I would think (same symbol used for blade fuses as for fuseable links), which he has checked. Still one of the first places to stick the multimeter anyway. Or maybe he has some more 'friends' around :laugh:

Hard to read wiring diagram, couldn't you find a color coded one? :dodge:

He may have checked the Fuse Box (shown on the diagram to the left of the horn) but may not be aware (Few would be) of the Main fuse on/at the starter relay.

I have no problem reading/following the diagram ...

[bogan]

He may have checked the Fuse Box (shown on the diagram to the left of the horn) but may not be aware (Few would be) of the Main fuse on/at the starter relay.

I have no problem reading/following the diagram ...

Just a problem reading/following the thread then? :laugh:


Cheers,as you say to me anyway with very limited knowledge i am thinking the main fuse or thereabouts,did remove it and it was fine though just for the "you never know" thing i replaced it with the spare.

[FJRider]

Just a problem reading/following the thread then? :laugh:

Ignition fuse is often believed to be main fuse. Time will tell ...

[BMWST?]

i am thinking a problem at the ign barrel itself

[nadroj]

Ignition fuse is often believed to be main fuse. Time will tell ...

Had the same problem with the Busa - the main fuse is well hidden behind and to one side of the battery.

[paturoa]

Had the same problem with the Busa - the main fuse is well hidden behind and to one side of the battery.

There are actualy 2 "main" fuses on the TL, like most modern zooks. The first is in a combo unit with the starter solenoid and the second is the Ingition fuse in the fuse block.

Edit: pic of the combo solenoid with its cover http://www.tlzone.net/forums/attachments/suzuki-tl1000r-tl1000s-forum/13367d1078262824-anyone-have-main-fuse-starter-solenoid-connector-ss.jpg

[hayd3n]

its farked m8 just chuck it in the harbour and claim insurance, what's the worst that could happen

[scumdog]

Yes it does,ive read of a few problems with the sidestand switch,i had mine on a paddock stand when it went poof.No lights anywhere mate,turn the key and nothing,no lights anywhere nor does the fuel pump prime etc.

Ya gotta watch them poofs Mike:whistle::laugh:

And without going over the whole thread...did you clean and check the battery lead connections at the terminals and check the frame end of the earth lead is making good contact too?

[FJRider]

Ya gotta watch them poofs Mike:whistle::laugh:

It's a suzuki ... not a honda.

[davereid]

Cheers P,will do.Batterys indicating fully charged on the meter so will see what happens with that in the morrow.Very very helpful stuff thank you.

Once you have used the voltmeter for establishing that the battery is OK, its best to put it away.

A simple test lamp is much better value, and its the tool you should choose first for a fault of this nature.

A volt meter measures electrical pressure. The better it is, the less "current" it needs to do its job.

A top spec volt meter will give you full battery voltage just by holding the pos lead in your left hand and touching the pos battery post with your right.

But your bike still wont go.

A test lamp draws half an amp or so. It will visually show whats going on.

Once you get used to it, and you can relate the "look" of the lamp to the voltage under test, you will be much better able to find your fault.

Watch an auto electrician. He will always use a good volt/amp/ohm meter. But his main tool is a test lamp.

[98tls]

Righto guys just got in,things didnt go as planned and after putting the supposedly charged battery in the Mrs decided we were doing family stuff which basically meant all day was wasted:brick:Anyways with the battery in i turn the key..still nothing/nought/nada signs of life,rechecked all the fuses,both in the box behind headlight and the 30 slightly forward of the battery,all fine.Didnt have any time to grab the meter.Weirdest of all when putting the car away in the shed not 5 minutes ago i walk past the bike and on a whim turn the key on,bloody headlight comes on,not very bright and only for a few seconds then fades to nothing,fuel pump didnt prime.So this means what?the batterys toast but if so why when i fitted it i got nothing then many hours later the headlight comes on.Will be well chuffed if its as simple as a buggered battery though as i posted well back will be surprised as its not that old.

[FJRider]

Put a battery in you know is good ... and go from there ... understanding electrics is like understanding women. (Electrics being more predictable) and sparks from seemingly nowhere and for no understandable reason ...

[bogan]

Sounds more like a dodgy connection if the charged battery didn't give life when it went in, but did a few hours later.

[98tls]

Sounds more like a dodgy connection if the charged battery didn't give life when it went in, but did a few hours later.

Weird eh,will do as fj says and tommorow get a battery i know is good and see what happens,ive cleaned all the connections around battery and starter relay,read on TL site guys having problems with the relay but mines clean as a whistle,cant understand the lights coming on at all,i just left the battery hooked up did nothing else until as i said turning the key many hours later.

[bogan]

Weird eh,will do as fj says and tommorow get a battery i know is good and see what happens,ive cleaned all the connections around battery and starter relay,read on TL site guys having problems with the relay but mines clean as a whistle,cant understand the lights coming on at all,i just left the battery hooked up did nothing else until as i said turning the key many hours later.

Yeh my money is still on the ignition contacts, would make sense as it was the only thing moved between not working then briefly working. Course each time it briefly works is probably destroying the contacts a bit more, if that is the case.

[FJRider]

Can you hook the charger to the battery with it on/connected to the bike ????

[98tls]

Can you hook the charger to the battery with it on/connected to the bike ????

Could do,yep.

[FJRider]

Could do,yep.

That should light up the lights with 12 V going in to the circuit.

[paturoa]

Weird eh,will do as fj says and tommorow get a battery i know is good and see what happens,ive cleaned all the connections around battery and starter relay,read on TL site guys having problems with the relay but mines clean as a whistle,cant understand the lights coming on at all,i just left the battery hooked up did nothing else until as i said turning the key many hours later.

hmmm,

Put the meter across the battery terminals note the voltage and turn the key on, what happens?

[98tls]

hmmm,

Put the meter across the battery terminals note the voltage and turn the key on, what happens?

Gidday P,as i posted the Mrs kind of got in the way of me getting anywhere with it and i didnt even have a chance to pick up the meter,am on pretty good terms with the bloke who owns the local Suzuki shop so will be on his doorstep 1st thing in the morning to "borrow" a battery,if it fires up then i guess its as simple as a naffed battery...isnt it?Will test the battery i have anyway.

[98tls]

If it is as simple as a naffed battery i will be a little pissed off,so certain was i that the battery should still be fine i started taking the thing to bits to get checking wiring...:oi-grr:;)

[FJRider]

Jumper leads .. without even trying to start it will tell you heaps ..

[98tls]

Ok got a meter on this thing,showed 12.4,the writing on the back (which i didnt bother reading until this morning) says it should be 12.8 or more.Was up at my mates place so couldnt test it on the bike,searched about for something to load test it with and we ended up using a Halogen bulb,it dropped to 8.3 so i guess its naffed eh.Very surprised i have to admit though the bike has sat around a lot in recent times.

[paturoa]

Batts are wierd when they go sad. It always seems to be gradual or quick, nothing in between.

[98tls]

Batts are wierd when they go sad. It always seems to be gradual or quick, nothing in between.

Ive never had one give up the ghost in such short time,be lucky if it was 2 years old hence my certainty it was something else.Never mind will go put the bike back together.Thanks to all for there time to offer advice.Happy new year to all.

[bogan]

That is quick! Not heard of one crap out with no warning like that before.

Time to give Ed a call, his battery tech is much better at sitting around for longer periods of time, among other benefits.

[paturoa]

What about one of them fancy smancy light weight batteries. Shoeri ?? that Edbear pushes, see post #13

[scumdog]

Ive never had one give up the ghost in such short time,be lucky if it was 2 years old hence my certainty it was something else.Never mind will go put the bike back together.Thanks to all for there time to offer advice.Happy new year to all.

Shoot, Mike, that IS a short life span!

C.B.s Sporty battery is its second one EVER - and it's a '97 bike! (From memory the original one was about 10 years old when we replaced it)

[98tls]

What about one of them fancy smancy light weight batteries. Shoeri ?? that Edbear pushes, see post #13

Hows that for service,complete with charger.

[98tls]

Shoot, Mike, that IS a short life span!

C.B.s Sporty battery is its second one EVER - and it's a '97 bike! (From memory the original one was about 10 years old when we replaced it)

Yea mate not long eh,to be fair the bikes sat around a lot,havent been to bugger all rallys in the last few years,short rides combined with a headlight you cant turn off might have something to do with it eh.

[Akzle]

It always seems to be gradual or quick, nothing in between.

uhh. what exactly is in between?
medium? extra medium?

[paturoa]

uhh. what exactly is in between?
medium? extra medium?

Somewhere between premature and tantric?

[Akzle]

Somewhere between premature and tantric?

five minutes and a bag of chips!