Red Flag Restarts?

[lostinflyz]

no wanting to start a shit fight, but we did have a minor kerfuffle on the superlite restart on the weekend. Overall was a good meet so im not bitching more just wondering the below?

I was under the impression anything goes after a red flag (i.e. suspension changes, tyre pressures, Reattaching bits...., fuel, warmers ect ect) but we were told nothing was allowed (after 1/2 the grid started adding fuel and twiddling spanners... :) ). Reading the rule 22.7.1 does this not apply to endurance races of 1 hour and over? or is it implied that it applies to these races by the supplementary regs, even if all the wording becomes pear-shaped?

Also when does a restart change from original grid positions to current race positions? I cant seem to find any reference in the rules....

anyway just figured it was worth a discussion as no one really seemed to know what was happening...

[Maido]

Read the sup regs before you sign them

http://www.mnz.co.nz/docs/entry-forms/nz-road-race-champs-round-2-entry-form-and-sup-regs.pdf?sfvrsn=2 its in there under red flag

[quickbuck]

Read the sup regs before you sign them

http://www.mnz.co.nz/docs/entry-forms/nz-road-race-champs-round-2-entry-form-and-sup-regs.pdf?sfvrsn=2 its in there under red flag

Can't give Rep again... etc...

[GD66]

Read the sup regs before you sign them

http://www.mnz.co.nz/docs/entry-forms/nz-road-race-champs-round-2-entry-form-and-sup-regs.pdf?sfvrsn=2 its in there under red flag


Clear enough. Stands and tyre warmers only, no fuel and no spanner work.
Once again, you as a rider have signed off on the entry form that you have read and agreed to race under the race rules and series supp regs, but have stated "I was under the impression anything goes after a red flag".


READ THE RULES, then there's no issue.

[FROSTY]

Hey maido Im not racing the nats so in no way does it affect me.Curiousity more than anything.I get the no adjustments to the bike bit That makes a lot of sense. But I just don't get the no gas bit. I apreciate that everyone is responsible for their own lives but with fuel loads being at apsolute minimum to run the warm up lap,race and out lap I would have thought some competitors would be out of fuel if theres a restart with extra warm up laps added.
Again --Im not doing the nats so not wanting to cause any issues-Just wondering.

[lostinflyz]

sorry my confusion stemmed from the reference to the endurance racing rule.

can anyone point out the grid change process to me?

[Maido]

Hey maido Im not racing the nats so in no way does it affect me.Curiousity more than anything.I get the no adjustments to the bike bit That makes a lot of sense. But I just don't get the no gas bit. I apreciate that everyone is responsible for their own lives but with fuel loads being at apsolute minimum to run the warm up lap,race and out lap I would have thought some competitors would be out of fuel if theres a restart with extra warm up laps added.
Again --Im not doing the nats so not wanting to cause any issues-Just wondering.

Good question, My personal opinion is that you should be able to refuel to allow you to make sure you don't conk out on the last lap, however the rules that we signed state that you cannot. I would suggest if you have the time and patience that you contact MNZ about it and maybe get it changed. Generally i would think most people carry enough fuel to make sure this base is covered. We burn anywhere from 350-500mls a lap, so that is really only 1 litre more for another warm up lap, which weight only about 750 grams so it isn't a major.

[budda]

sorry my confusion stemmed from the reference to the endurance racing rule.

can anyone point out the grid change process to me?

As Jeremy so aptly put it, READ the rules, its IN there ........... That poor bugger must have wasted a good 3 hours of HIS race weekend dealing with questions / queries from people who clearly hadnt read 'em, or certainly didnt understand what they'd read. Do the Riders Rep a favour Guys, have a read BEFORE you go to him, in most cases you'll save yourself the walk .............

[roogazza]

As Jeremy so aptly put it, READ the rules, its IN there ........... That poor bugger must have wasted a good 3 hours of HIS race weekend dealing with questions / queries from people who clearly hadnt read 'em, or certainly didnt understand what they'd read. Do the Riders Rep a favour Guys, have a read BEFORE you go to him, in most cases you'll save yourself the walk .............

Agreed Budda +1
Trouble is reading and spelling are becoming a dying art.

[ellipsis]

Agreed Budda +1
Trouble is reading and spelling are becoming a dying art.


...followed closely by personal responsibility...

[yungatart]

...followed closely by personal responsibility...

...and comprehension is well dead...

[roadracingoldfart]

...and comprehension is well dead...


Good Spulling is rear ass well. ;):nya:

[wayne]

3 laps race, then back a lap for red flag race stoppage ,
so hows that make 33% 2/10 = ?
half points for each part ?
not only riders who need to read the sub regs and rule book ?????????

[Paul Searancke]

3 laps race, then back a lap for red flag race stoppage ,
so hows that make 33% 2/10 = ?
half points for each part ?
not only riders who need to read the sub regs and rule book ?????????

Read rule 6.13b

[lostinflyz]

thanks paul, that was all i was looking for.

I apologize that i cannot recall line for line the 100+ pages of rules that apply at a road race meet.... I really struggle with the rule book trying to find information. Perhaps when i have been around long enough i will have seen it all and know the ins and outs of most situations.

As a point, i trusted the officials on the day as they have spent far more time than me generally in the sport and becoming familiar with the regulations and formalities of the rules than i am, as i am simply a rider, not an organizer, official or stewart. I didn't waste the officials or Riders rep time with a question that didn't need answering immediately. All i wanted to understand was what should have happened and what the specific wording of the rules are.

On the day there were many people (some official, many not) saying many different things at various points, and its good to know the rules were applied as they should have been. I would hate to be an official who didn't know the exact wording of a rule one day, as a rider i get this much shit for not knowing them all, god help them.

[Peter Smith]

I feel sorry for the marshals. Was racing at Manfield a few months ago when the race was red flagged (most riders had wets and the track was drying out). The Marshal tried to hold the bikes on the dummy grid and would not allow refuelling but was bullied into letting the riders return to their pits to refuel. Several returned with different tyre. Just saying, that’s all. :mellow:

[GD66]

thanks paul, that was all i was looking for.

I apologize that i cannot recall line for line the 100+ pages of rules that apply at a road race meet.... I really struggle with the rule book trying to find information. Perhaps when i have been around long enough i will have seen it all and know the ins and outs of most situations.

I would hate to be an official who didn't know the exact wording of a rule one day, as a rider i get this much shit for not knowing them all, god help them.

Flyz, no-one's giving you shit mate : there ARE a lot of rules to absorb, but the longer you go the more you will become familiar with them and the more apparent sense they'll make. In the meantime, you don't have to know all the rules at all, but it is pretty important to know where in the rule book the relevant rules can be found. I've been going to the bike racing for 50 years, have been a competitor in roadrace and mx for more than half that time, and I'm a clerk of course, a steward and a track inspector, and I sure as hell don't know them all. If you spend a couple of hours pre-season reading the GCRs, that's usually enough : but reading the supp regs thoroughly before you send off your entry form for each meeting is very important, because having some clarity avoids all the guesswork and confusion that can quickly arise in a situation such as you've outlined in your opening post, and you can let others stumble and argue while you calmly and quietly get on with your race programme. It's all part of getting your stuff together as your experience builds, after a while it becomes a breeze. Stick at it. :woohoo:

[budda]

Flyz, no-one's giving you shit mate : there ARE a lot of rules to absorb, but the longer you go the more you will become familiar with them and the more apparent sense they'll make. In the meantime, you don't have to know all the rules at all, but it is pretty important to know where in the rule book the relevant rules can be found. I've been going to the bike racing for 50 years, have been a competitor in roadrace and mx for more than half that time, and I'm a clerk of course, a steward and a track inspector, and I sure as hell don't know them all. If you spend a couple of hours pre-season reading the GCRs, that's usually enough : but reading the supp regs thoroughly before you send off your entry form for each meeting is very important, because having some clarity avoids all the guesswork and confusion that can quickly arise in a situation such as you've outlined in your opening post, and you can let others stumble and argue while you calmly and quietly get on with your race programme. It's all part of getting your stuff together as your experience builds, after a while it becomes a breeze. Stick at it. :woohoo:

Bullseye ..........

[suzuki21]

Bullseye ..........

There isnt 100 pages of rules to remember. If someone cant remember the relevant rules for their class I would say they are either retarded like Craig Shirrifs, cant read, have the memory of a goldfish, cant be fucked, ugly like Craig Shirrifs, or hope their mummy or daddy will buy their way out of trouble. If its too hard for people maybe they need to do something simple like knitting.

[jellywrestler]

There isnt 100 pages of rules to remember. If someone cant remember the relevant rules for their class I would say they are either retarded like Craig Shirrifs, cant read, have the memory of a goldfish, cant be fucked, ugly like Craig Shirrifs, or hope their mummy or daddy will buy their way out of trouble. If its too hard for people maybe they need to do something simple like knitting.
Think you'll find Craig Shirriffs knows the rule book back to front, even betterer than he knows the local pie shop menu in fact.

[steveyb]

Think you'll find Craig Shirriffs knows the rule book back to front, even betterer than he knows the local pie shop menu in fact.

Now I know you are on crack..........

[budda]

There isnt 100 pages of rules to remember. If someone cant remember the relevant rules for their class I would say they are either retarded like Craig Shirrifs, cant read, have the memory of a goldfish, cant be fucked, ugly like Craig Shirrifs, or hope their mummy or daddy will buy their way out of trouble. If its too hard for people maybe they need to do something simple like knitting.

Part of Racecraft is knowing your shit - flags, safety rules and the rules specific to your chosen Class. THEN you swot up on the Supps for whatever event you're about to enter. Pretty simple, thousands of munters like me have managed it, its NOT too much to expect

Maybe the Real problem is that the Stewards at Club level meetings have been soft-cocking the poor little new guys ....... the only reason us , ahem, "older" chaps can quote rules is that as young fellas we got sick of getting a reaming and then the "drive of shame" home.

The LAST thing most Stewards want is to spend a day of THEIR leisure time being a Policeman to the sort of dolphin-polishers you see on the TV "Road Cops" type programmes - dont know the rules, and dont give a shit about those they ARE aware of - and you and me let them work their fines off at $100 an HOUR doing SFA.

If we all take some personal responsibilty in the rules area, the only time you'll see a Steward is at Sign-In in the morning - rant over

[Biggles08]

Flyz, no-one's giving you shit mate : there ARE a lot of rules to absorb, but the longer you go the more you will become familiar with them and the more apparent sense they'll make. In the meantime, you don't have to know all the rules at all, but it is pretty important to know where in the rule book the relevant rules can be found. I've been going to the bike racing for 50 years, have been a competitor in roadrace and mx for more than half that time, and I'm a clerk of course, a steward and a track inspector, and I sure as hell don't know them all. If you spend a couple of hours pre-season reading the GCRs, that's usually enough : but reading the supp regs thoroughly before you send off your entry form for each meeting is very important, because having some clarity avoids all the guesswork and confusion that can quickly arise in a situation such as you've outlined in your opening post, and you can let others stumble and argue while you calmly and quietly get on with your race programme. It's all part of getting your stuff together as your experience builds, after a while it becomes a breeze. Stick at it. :woohoo:

Very good and well worded reply GD66! I for one appreciate the lack of attitude you have 'as an official' shown in your response...good stuff. All too often genuine questions from riders are too quickly shot down and belittled with undertones of arrogance and it is refreshing to read quality discussion on here for a change...have I accidentally wandered into another dimension...this is KB right?!?:confused: