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View Full Version : No wof with these cans, so?



98tls
7th January 2013, 18:41
Whats next?To be honest they were driving my old ears mad and wasnt surprised to get the "jeez its a bit loud mate" look from the local guy that has done my wofs for years,fair call though how some of the Harleys get a wof round heres beyond me.These are fine at idle etc but give it a handful and its annoying.Anyone had any dealings with the aftermarket shorties with DB killers fitted and if so do they work?Been scouring the net and theres some nice stuff made for the likes of Ducatis streetfighter that i could use as i am going to change the mid pipe anyway so diameter isnt a problem,would just get it made to suit thing is i dont want to go spending big $ to find the things are no quieter than what i have remembering that other countrys may not be as tense with there noise levels.Shame really as i had started to like the look of these old things.Basically my question is will purpose built short cans with these decibal killers fitted (they say there removable) be acceptable to the wof guy..and my old ears.Someone posted they had a use for whats on there now but cant remember who,if you see this thread sing out eh.

FJRider
7th January 2013, 18:53
Someone posted they had a use for whats on there now but cant remember who,if you see this thread sing out eh.

In this thread I think ...

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/148737-Anyone-using-these-shorties-or-similar

98tls
7th January 2013, 18:55
In this thread I think ...

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/148737-Anyone-using-these-shorties-or-similar

Cheers FJ.

mossy1200
7th January 2013, 19:02
I got some with the new yoshi pipes. I havent started the bike yet due to no ecu. Shop seems to think I wont need them in but I guess im going to find out tomorrow.

The Lone Rider
7th January 2013, 19:08
Can you get in the can?

If you can, stainless steel pot cleaners. Yes, serious.


I've turned my mufflers from "Fuck that for more than a spit around the block" to something much more comfortable, by putting two in each pipe (started with one, then went to two).

98tls
7th January 2013, 19:11
I got some with the new yoshi pipes. I havent started the bike yet due to no ecu. Shop seems to think I wont need them in but I guess im going to find out tomorrow.

Are they short cans mate?Considered cutting out a couple of mdf ovals drilling a hole in em and fitting them into the end of the cans to pass the wof but na am done with them there just to loud for my ears,10 years ago i probably wouldnt have cared but.

98tls
7th January 2013, 19:14
Can you get in the can?

If you can, stainless steel pot cleaners. Yes, serious.


I've turned my mufflers from "Fuck that for more than a spit around the block" to something much more comfortable, by putting two in each pipe (started with one, then went to two).

Yep easily,just drill out the rivets,i took 8cms off them awhile back hoping they wouldnt be toooo loud but :brick:i give up.So how do you keep said pot cleaners from exiting the cans?

Madness
7th January 2013, 19:18
So how do you keep said pot cleaners from exiting the cans?

Use a dish brush bro!

The Lone Rider
7th January 2013, 19:18
Yep easily,just drill out the rivets,i took 8cms off them awhile back hoping they wouldnt be toooo loud but :brick:i give up.So how do you keep said pot cleaners from exiting the cans?

Whats the inside of the cans like?

If I could have a look I'd have some ideas.

Depending on how the inside of the can is, most you need is a small vented plate tig welded to the inside. Least, you can shove it it and it stays (or attach with gardening wire).


Does the inside look like this, with a vented tube inside it, attached to the cover plate?


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bogan
7th January 2013, 19:21
Your pipe diameters should be governed by your engine, not what sounds good on other peoples engines, which probably sounds that little bit better because the pipe size is matched!

I would highly recommend non round (oval, square, triangular) section cans, the theory being the non uniform wave reflections dampen the high frequency extra good like. But I'm mainly going by my own muffler here, proper sized pipes, twin perf tube in an oval shorty can (again, properly sized); still get wood hearing that sometimes :whistle:

98tls
7th January 2013, 19:22
Whats the inside of the cans like?

If I could have a look I'd have some ideas.

Depending on how the inside of the can is, most you need is a small vented plate tig welded to the inside. Least, you can shove it it and it stays (or attach with gardening wire).


Does the inside look like this, with a vented tube inside it, attached to the cover plate?


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Yep,i put new packing in when i cut them down in vain hope,the baffle tube just sits in there with the packing around it.

scumdog
7th January 2013, 19:23
Yep easily,just drill out the rivets,i took 8cms off them awhile back hoping they wouldnt be toooo loud but :brick:i give up.So how do you keep said pot cleaners from exiting the cans?

I suspect you would have to pack them around a central baffle tube, you can buy lengths from any decent muffler shop. (If your cans don't already have them...)

I tried using fine mesh (steel white-bait netting!) rolled up, tied with lacing wire and put it my cans - it made the noise more mellow but 100 or so km I had this long 'streamer' sticking out of the central hole in the can by about 500mm.:doh:

So next time I will do what I suggested to you...

The Lone Rider
7th January 2013, 19:25
Yep,i put new packing in when i cut them down in vain hope,the baffle tube just sits in there with the packing around it.

So the vented tube has that fibre glass like stuff wrapped around it?

Does the vented tube run straight through? Essentially a can, with a straight tube filled with holes down the middle?

98tls
7th January 2013, 19:29
Your pipe diameters should be governed by your engine, not what sounds good on other peoples engines, which probably sounds that little bit better because the pipe size is matched!

I would highly recommend non round (oval, square, triangular) section cans, the theory being the non uniform wave reflections dampen the high frequency extra good like. But I'm mainly going by my own muffler here, proper sized pipes, twin perf tube in an oval shorty can (again, properly sized); still get wood hearing that sometimes :whistle:

All fine b but am wanting to know if aftermarket shorties with db killers fitted will pass a wof here.The pipe diameter things been done to death on the TL site many times with varied results ie oversize headers etc but all i am after is finding some cans that are A short B will get me a wof and not drive me nuts after a few hours riding.

98tls
7th January 2013, 19:30
So the vented tube has that fibre glass like stuff wrapped around it?

Does the vented tube run straight through? Essentially a can, with a straight tube filled with holes down the middle?

Yep,xactly.

98tls
7th January 2013, 19:34
I suspect you would have to pack them around a central baffle tube, you can buy lengths from any decent muffler shop. (If your cans don't already have them...)

I tried using fine mesh (steel white-bait netting!) rolled up, tied with lacing wire and put it my cans - it made the noise more mellow but 100 or so km I had this long 'streamer' sticking out of the central hole in the can by about 500mm.:doh:

So next time I will do what I suggested to you...

So what your saying T is wrap the likes of what Lone riders suggesting around the baffle tube in place of the fibreglass exhaust packing,hard to believe its quiter than purpose made packing but its easy enough to give it a go.

The Lone Rider
7th January 2013, 19:35
Yep,xactly.

That'll be why it's fuckin loud.

Harley drag pipe baffles are similar, except instead of holes they have tabs that are folded down. It displaces the airflow from going right down the middle and out.


I'd try a pot scrubber over the end of the tube, held on with garden wire. The muffler packing I've seen is too dense to do that. That just leaves a question of if the gases start to blow a hole in the pot scrubber. Some other mesh material could be used to allow flow down the tube, and you just throw in pot scrubbers until it's sounding like you want.

Sounds cheapo, but it works. And nobody is gonna see the inside of the muffler once you get the end of that tube meshed.

Leave your current muffler packing on. You need to reduce flow down the middle of that tube.

mossy1200
7th January 2013, 19:38
Are they short cans mate?Considered cutting out a couple of mdf ovals drilling a hole in em and fitting them into the end of the cans to pass the wof but na am done with them there just to loud for my ears,10 years ago i probably wouldnt have cared but.

R77s . They do look short maybe 350 long.
I have the inserts at home. If mines warrent volume and same size you may have them. They look like a short pipe flanged slightly at the end. Let me know your pipe size.

scumdog
7th January 2013, 19:39
So what your saying T is wrap the likes of what Lone riders suggesting around the baffle tube in place of the fibreglass exhaust packing,hard to believe its quiter than purpose made packing but its easy enough to give it a go.


Yeah, worked for me (for a bit!) but no guarantees Mike!

Unbeleivable that it blew out the mesh in my mufflers - the exhaust was only going past the rolled up mesh, not through it.

bogan
7th January 2013, 19:43
All fine b but am wanting to know if aftermarket shorties with db killers fitted will pass a wof here.The pipe diameter things been done to death on the TL site many times with varied results ie oversize headers etc but all i am after is finding some cans that are A short B will get me a wof and not drive me nuts after a few hours riding.

I've heard db killers do get good results, and as I said, non-round cans will give a better result. As I don't own a TL, or even a firestorm (yet) I can't say exactly what it'd take, but going from what you have on atm, I'd think either of those features would make a noticeable difference, and likely get a wof, but to be sure you may as well look for both? Get the can's inner diameters as close as possible to the header diameter too.

98tls
7th January 2013, 19:45
That'll be why it's fuckin loud.

Harley drag pipe baffles are similar, except instead of holes they have tabs that are folded down. It displaces the airflow from going right down the middle and out.


I'd try a pot scrubber over the end of the tube, held on with garden wire. The muffler packing I've seen is too dense to do that. That just leaves a question of if the gases start to blow a hole in the pot scrubber. Some other mesh material could be used to allow flow down the tube, and you just throw in pot scrubbers until it's sounding like you want.

Sounds cheapo, but it works. And nobody is gonna see the inside of the muffler once you get the end of that tube meshed.

Leave your current muffler packing on. You need to reduce flow down the middle of that tube.

Gotcha,as you say sounds cheapo but its definately do-able,if it works all good,will let you know how it goes.

The Lone Rider
7th January 2013, 19:45
http://img.jpcycles.com/zoom/440-624_A.jpg

You'll have something like that attached to the end plate, inside the can.

Wrap the outer diameter with the muffler material, and find a way to reduce flow through the inside end. Stainless pot scrubbers. Mesh wire. Whatever. Hold it on with wire, cinched up using pliers to make it very tight (similar to how you would cinch up exhaust wrap)

http://a248.e.akamai.net/origin-cdn.volusion.com/pj29y.dw7dz/v/vspfiles/photos/30-0217-VT-2.jpg?1352893168

Harley drag pipe baffles for comparison.

They have square tabs punched in them, with the tabs directed downwards so the air flow down the middle gets displaced outward back into the exhaust - reducing noise by reducing direct flow out the pipe.

bogan
7th January 2013, 19:48
That'll be why it's fuckin loud.

Harley drag pipe baffles are similar, except instead of holes they have tabs that are folded down. It displaces the airflow from going right down the middle and out.


I'd try a pot scrubber over the end of the tube, held on with garden wire. The muffler packing I've seen is too dense to do that. That just leaves a question of if the gases start to blow a hole in the pot scrubber. Some other mesh material could be used to allow flow down the tube, and you just throw in pot scrubbers until it's sounding like you want.

Sounds cheapo, but it works. And nobody is gonna see the inside of the muffler once you get the end of that tube meshed.

Leave your current muffler packing on. You need to reduce flow down the middle of that tube.

Good thing the tech has come a long way outside of harley circles then ;) The idea in modern mufflers is to break up the sound waves through destructive interference and absorption while allowing the gases to exit without being impeded.

98tls
7th January 2013, 19:49
Yeah, worked for me (for a bit!) but no guarantees Mike!

Unbeleivable that it blew out the mesh in my mufflers - the exhaust was only going past the rolled up mesh, not through it.

Like Lone riders idea of keeping the fibreglass packing and fitting the pot scrubber things in the tube itself,what the hell its worth a go and its not like anyone cares what the inside of your cans look like.Be interesting to see if or how long it stays in there.

The Lone Rider
7th January 2013, 19:52
Like Lone riders idea of keeping the fibreglass packing and fitting the pot scrubber things in the tube itself,what the hell its worth a go and its not like anyone cares what the inside of your cans look like.Be interesting to see if or how long it stays in there.

Mine unraveled a little, and i just pulled the strands out. Eventually stopped. But yea, if not secured enough it will unravel and you'll have party streamers.

Should fit them over the end. Simply down the middle will make them blow out.

Over the end like cling wrap over a half used jar of pasta sauce.

98tls
7th January 2013, 20:03
Good thing the tech has come a long way outside of harley circles then ;) The idea in modern mufflers is to break up the sound waves through destructive interference and absorption while allowing the gases to exit without being impeded.

Then again b tech has given us such wonderful things as abs and traction control soon to be followed by a high pitched warning device to awaken the rider when out of boredom hes fallen zzzzzzzzz.Nothing wrong with pot scrubbers and wire from time to time;)

scumdog
7th January 2013, 20:05
....and wake us up when we forget we already posted something.:killingme

98tls
7th January 2013, 20:09
....and wake us up when we forget we already posted something.:killingme

That to:motu:smarty arse.;)

bogan
7th January 2013, 20:09
they do have their place, thing is its on the other side of the perf tube from the exhaust stream. A thin layer of steel wool is often used to stop the fiber strands from heading out the rear. Never hear of anyone putting it on the inside before, that shit be crazy.... and hazardous, take up the TEC spot on any rides with your mates, don't want them coping a steel flake in the eye if a visor is up (been there, done that, not recommended).

scumdog
7th January 2013, 20:11
they do have their place, thing is its on the other side of the perf tube from the exhaust stream. A thin layer of steel wool is often used to stop the fiber strands from heading out the rear. Never hear of anyone putting it on the inside before, that shit be crazy.... and hazardous, take up the TEC spot on any rides with your mates, don't want them coping a steel flake in the eye if a visor is up (been there, done that, not recommended).


I've already seen how far a home made 'muffling' system can be fired when the throttle is given a good blip...:pinch:

FJRider
7th January 2013, 20:17
I've already seen how far a home made 'muffling' system can be fired when the throttle is given a good blip...:pinch:

Not enough chicken netting then ... ;)

98tls
7th January 2013, 20:18
Guess another option its to fit an insert into the end of the can with a plate on the inside end and simply drill a hole in it,be interesting to see what happens peformance wise,the claims some of the aftermarket can makers make by simply fitting there product is at times nothing but a piss take i am sure.

skinman
7th January 2013, 21:07
I have straight pipes much like the Harleys run & have tried all sorts...Yep steel wool can really get some distance when launched out of a pipe. I put a more restrictive version of the baffle that Lone rider put up (see below) & put a restrictor on the end (at bottom) which gave an acceptable (to me) noise level

275851

275853

The Lone Rider
7th January 2013, 21:07
Could fabricate a vented cap to go on the inside end of the tube. Pretty easy to do on a lathe.

skinman
7th January 2013, 21:10
like the front portion of the top baffle in post above maybe?

GrayWolf
9th January 2013, 09:48
All fine b but am wanting to know if aftermarket shorties with db killers fitted will pass a wof here.The pipe diameter things been done to death on the TL site many times with varied results ie oversize headers etc but all i am after is finding some cans that are A short B will get me a wof and not drive me nuts after a few hours riding.

maybe chat to other TL owners, there may 'just' be one looking for loud pipes who has a set acceptable to your old ears?
I have a set of Staintune for the ZZR1100 which would have had DB killers with them originally, I believe they would get you through a WOF. Other option is European aftermarket pipes.... The noise restrictions in Europe are why bikes (standard exhaust) are so damn quiet now.