Which fork springs for a Bandit?

[nzspokes]

Im thinking of fitting stronger springs to me K1 Bandit 1200 as my love affair with pies is ongoing. Should I go for Racetech springs or progressive springs?

Progressive seem to have only one rate and Racetech have a few weights. 1.0 is what they recommend. Not sure which will work out better.

Probably will do oil and seals at the same time.

[mulletman]

Racetech springs , ive got .95s in the SV and im 98kgs, the progressive shit that was in the SV was utter rubbish, heaps of dive then a horrid bash near the end of the stroke, suspension adjustments wound in almost fully, harsh ride, FTS. Now my settings are backed off heaps so i have a much nicer ride wether going quick or cruising, replaced oil with a slightly higher rating - was assuming fact oil was 2.5w im using 5wt. Oil at 18000kms was grey murk.

Had a 07 GSX1400 and put .95s in that, not that much difference tbh, used 10wt oil, i think 5wt was oem on that.

[mulletman]

Maybe a good time to check steering head bearings as well, repack or replace, Mr Suzuki was a bit stingy in that dept.

[nzspokes]

Racetech springs , ive got .95s in the SV and im 98kgs, the progressive shit that was in the SV was utter rubbish, heaps of dive then a horrid bash near the end of the stroke, suspension adjustments wound in almost fully, harsh ride, FTS. Now my settings are backed off heaps so i have a much nicer ride wether going quick or cruising, replaced oil with a slightly higher rating - was assuming fact oil was 2.5w im using 5wt. Oil at 18000kms was grey murk.

Had a 07 GSX1400 and put .95s in that, not that much difference tbh, used 10wt oil, i think 5wt was oem on that.

Yeah I think Racetech will be the go. Will troll Ebay. 1.0 is what the racetech site recommends, guess the bandit is a heavier bike.

Will go up an oil weight.

[hayd3n]

Yeah I think Racetech will be the go. Will troll Ebay. 1.0 is what the racetech site recommends, guess the bandit is a heavier bike.

Will go up an oil weight.

buy local, they are not that dear and you get the help from the local suspension guru too

[roogazza]

Yeah I think Racetech will be the go. Will troll Ebay. 1.0 is what the racetech site recommends, guess the bandit is a heavier bike.

Will go up an oil weight.

All depends how fat you are. I used Racetech Progressives and an early gsxr1100 rear shock.
Oh and 10 wt in the forks. Big improvement at a good cost.
The rear shock was 25ml longer too, for faster steer and clearance.

[nzspokes]

All depends how fat you are. I used Racetech Progressives and an early gsxr1100 rear shock.
Oh and 10 wt in the forks. Big improvement at a good cost.
The rear shock was 25ml longer too, for faster steer and clearance.

Yeah mines got a busa rear shock so taller.

[nzspokes]

buy local, they are not that dear and you get the help from the local suspension guru too

I suspect they will be an epic amount more than from the US. Im not that rich.

[Robert Taylor]

I suspect they will be an epic amount more than from the US. Im not that rich.

$249.90 per pair gst incl, in stock in most rates. Given your geometry change with the rear shock that will also have some influence on the rate required. If they turn out to be not quite to your taste ( the maths isnt foolproof as it cannot calculate rider feel ) we exchange at no further cost excepting freight recoveries. Try that with those parasites from North Mexico.

[nzspokes]

Try that with those parasites from North Mexico.

About $180 landed from Holeshot Performance. Not sure where they are. US somewhere. May get some other toys at the same time.

[Madness]

There's just no helping some people.

[AllanB]

I looked off-shore initially - punched in the details in the calculator. I also contacted KSS and although slightly dearer Roberts gurantee of the correct spring rate or an exchange won the day (he ended up supplying Ohlins as they were cheaper than Racetech). The spring rate Robert recommended was lower than the on-line USA Racetech calculator.

The supplied units are spot on - any higher in spring rating would have been far to firm/harsh. I'm no expert but I suspect the Racetech calculator is for either smooth tracks or USA roads as opposed to our hole/bump infested goat tracks.

Money well spent and not regretted. Overall for a lously couple hundred it is the best value for money modification I have made to the bike.


Be warned though - the front end improved so much that I ended up ordering a new rear shock as the improved front highlighted the limitations of the rear!!!

Hmmm now I wonder what those gold valve thingies would do to my forks ..........

[Robert Taylor]

About $180 landed from Holeshot Performance. Not sure where they are. US somewhere. May get some other toys at the same time.

Yes, another kick in the teeth for NZ business and the ordinary everyday Kiwis who depend upon them for employment,. I guess there is no clearance charges and gst on that?
No wonder many small economies are going down the toilet.

[nzspokes]

I looked off-shore initially - punched in the details in the calculator. I also contacted KSS and although slightly dearer Roberts gurantee of the correct spring rate or an exchange won the day (he ended up supplying Ohlins as they were cheaper than Racetech). The spring rate Robert recommended was lower than the on-line USA Racetech calculator.

The supplied units are spot on - any higher in spring rating would have been far to firm/harsh. I'm no expert but I suspect the Racetech calculator is for either smooth tracks or USA roads as opposed to our hole/bump infested goat tracks.

Money well spent and not regretted. Overall for a lously couple hundred it is the best value for money modification I have made to the bike.


Be warned though - the front end improved so much that I ended up ordering a new rear shock as the improved front highlighted the limitations of the rear!!!

Hmmm now I wonder what those gold valve thingies would do to my forks ..........

Think my rear shock is fine. Ive been speaking with an owners forum in aussie and they run that rate springs with simular weight fatties on them. I will enjoy fitting them up and give the forks a birthday at the same time.

[rustic101]

Spokes

I've dealt with Dale personally and he stands behind everything he sells as have a number of Aus and other Kiwi Bandit owners. I have a few of his parts on my baby and a few more lined up after it comes out of warranty.

Not sure if you've had a good look at his site check out his project bandit, have a link to another of their teams sites somewhere. Dales a former racer and rider and really knows his shit and does not bull shit.

http://www.holeshot.com/

[nzspokes]

Spokes

I've dealt with Dale personally and he stands behind everything he sells as have a number of Aus and other Kiwi Bandit owners. I have a few of his parts on my baby and a few more lined up after it comes out of warranty.

Not sure if you've had a good look at his site check out his project bandit, have a link to another of their teams sites somewhere. Dales a former racer and rider and really knows his shit and does not bull shit.

http://www.holeshot.com/

Yeah ive read through what hes done and has for the Bandits. Ive only read good things about him. Mainly wanted to know if Progressive branded springs were better than Racetech or the other way around.

What do you think of the fork brace? Ive read good things about them. Think a stage 2 pod kit is in the future from him.

[nzspokes]

Maybe a good time to check steering head bearings as well, repack or replace, Mr Suzuki was a bit stingy in that dept.

Good point on that. Will probably order some new ones at the same time. Cant be that hard to do. :facepalm:

[Robert Taylor]

Good point on that. Will probably order some new ones at the same time. Cant be that hard to do. :facepalm:

Are you personally in an industry ( ANY industry of many ) that is exposed to trying to compete with offshore internet purchases that so often get through without clearance and gst charges?
More to the point do you actually care?

[Morcs]

Are you personally in an industry ( ANY industry of many ) that is exposed to trying to compete with offshore internet purchases that so often get through without clearance and gst charges?
More to the point do you actually care?

Its ok Robert, one day when most of the bike shops have closed, theyll be no local bike shops for these people to go to when their bike is broken, or they want to call and ask stupid questions before buying online.

[nzspokes]

Are you personally in an industry ( ANY industry of many ) that is exposed to trying to compete with offshore internet purchases that so often get through without clearance and gst charges?
More to the point do you actually care?

Yes my industry did go through it a few years back and the weak didn't make it.

[hayd3n]

at $250 for upgraded springs why would you buy over seas?? sounds pretty cheap to me (especially since you get local help and will swap them if you dont like them

[Madness]

Yes my industry did go through it a few years back and the weak didn't make it.

In other words the market for bicycles and associated equipment shrunk and some players with less capital went out of business. It's not a matter of weakness, it's the rapid decline of small business in New Zealand resulting in job losses, less choice in the local marketplace and ultimately increased fragility as a local economy and greater exposure to the global financial markets.

In answer to the second part of Roberts question I'd say no, you obviously don't give a fuck. I think with some of your posts like this one it's more a case of thinking you're having a good troll when in actuality you tend to make yourself look like a bit of a knob.

Enjoy your springs.

[wasiler]

Yes my industry did go through it a few years back and the weak didn't make it.

I have an idea, I will order these springs from the U.S. and put a mark up on them of 15%. I will then sell them to the guy that lives next to me and he will put a % mark up on them. I will instruct each individual to pass it door to door so each Kiwi in NZ can put a mark up on them and we will be helping everyone stay employed in NZ....Makes perfect sense. We will be helping all of NZ and probably be honored.

A lot of people don't understand the law of supply and demand. If the demand is not there, drop your price. If you can't compete, look for another business. By inflating the price so high you are actually hurting the NZ economy in the long run by not letting the currency be exchanged.

Why don't you just save yourself some time and mark it up to a million dollars than you can retire and not worry about it any more.

[Madness]

I have an idea, I will order these springs from the U.S. and put a mark up on them of 15%. I will then sell them to the guy that lives next to me and he will put a % mark up on them. I will instruct each individual to pass it door to door so each Kiwi in NZ can put a mark up on them and we will be helping everyone stay employed in NZ....Makes perfect sense. We will be helping all of NZ and probably be honored.

A lot of people don't understand the law of supply and demand. If the demand is not there, drop your price. If you can't compete, look for another business. By inflating the price so high you are actually hurting the NZ economy in the long run by not letting the currency be exchanged.

Why don't you just save yourself some time and mark it up to a million dollars than you can retire and not worry about it any more.

A lot of people don't understand economies of scale either. A lot of immigrants also haven't been here in recent times to see the decline in small town life in N.Z and the almost eradication of local, family-owned businesses in certain sectors of the market. However, quite obviously, in the eight months since emigrating from the U.S you've become an expert in small business in this country and perhaps we should all "honor" you for sharing your incredibly intelligent insights with us.

:not:

[Kickaha]

at $250 for upgraded springs why would you buy over seas?? sounds pretty cheap to me (especially since you get local help and will swap them if you dont like them

Because a lot of people are dumb and look at nothing but the dollar figure

[wasiler]

A lot of people don't understand economies of scale either. A lot of immigrants also haven't been here in recent times to see the decline in small town life in N.Z and the almost eradication of local, family-owned businesses in certain sectors of the market. However, quite obviously, in the eight months since emigrating from the U.S you've become an expert in small business in this country and perhaps we should all "honor" you for sharing your incredibly intelligent insights with us.

:not:

No expert in small business and I have not seen the decline in small business here. Just reciting what I thought was obvious. Some people can't seem to understand why small business is declining. I see you appear to have to correct idea on how to run a business. Yes, paying more for the same exact part makes perfect sense to me (sarcasm). Some people are dumb and just look at the dollar sign and ignore that the person buying the part worked long hard hours to get that dollar. Forget the fact that person buying that part may have a family, rent, car, payment, bills, pets etc. We must forget about that and think only about supporting a small business so you can continue providing a service that is not in demand. I guess we should all be "honored" for supporting your business at the expense of our work. :not:

Why don't you open up a company selling pet rocks. It will be a small business and I'm sure there are others out there that will buy your pet rocks just so they can support small business. I can pick up a rock off the ground but, supporting you with my hard earned money is much more important because it is a small business. I give you my money and you give me something worth a lot less. hahahaha You wonder why the decline in small town life?????? It is called progress.

In the end, you are hurting the NZ economy by providing a service that is not really needed. If you can't compete, close up shop or look for other ways you can. Overcharging is always bad business. The truth hurts but, times are changing and you can't stop progress.

Oh, one more bit of advice. One unsatisfied customer will drive away 10 more. When I have dealt with a local company and later found out I was charged double the price, I feel like I am be taken advantage of. Therefore, unless I need the part right then and there, I will go out of my way to buy elsewhere. If that means overseas, so be it.

[Madness]

No expert in small business and I have not seen the decline in small business here, therefore the rest of my post was actually pointless drivel spouted from a point of ignorance.

Now you're just being silly.

The point is that if someone wants to import a pair of springs for a bike at a cost of $180, subjecting themselves to possible additional costs and potential issues if the order is supplied incorrectly, compared to buying them locally for $250 complete with the ability to exchange at no extra cost and supporting a local business who specialises and supports local motorcycling - all for the sake of $70 - then some might think they're dumb.

If they can't afford the extra $70 then that's sad and I take my hat off to them for being able to maintain a road bike in this country whilst being so miserably poor. The cost of doing this is steadily increasing by the way as the retailers struggle to keep the doors open due partly to a lot of accessories (and springs too, it seems) now being imported privately, but that's quite obvioulsy their fault, innit?

Then there's the issue of importation of more worthless shit from the united states of america, such as Starbucks amongst other things (what next - pet rocks?). We don't need it and got along quite nicely without it, thanks.

:niceone:

[wasiler]

Now you're just being silly.

The point is that if someone wants to import a pair of springs for a bike at a cost of $180, subjecting themselves to possible additional costs and potential issues if the order is supplied incorrectly, compared to buying them locally for $250 complete with the ability to exchange at no extra cost and supporting a local business who specialises and supports local motorcycling - all for the sake of $70 - then some might think they're dumb.

If they can't afford the extra $70 then that's sad and I take my hat off for them being able to maintain a road bike in this country whilst being so miserably poor. The cost of doing this is steadily increasing by the way as the retailers struggle to keep the doors open due partly to a lot of accessories (and springs too, it seems) now being imported privately, but that's quite obvioulsy their fault, innit?

Then there's the issue of importation of more worthless shit from the united states of america, such as Starbucks and amongst other things (what next - pet rocks?). We don't need it and got along quite nicely without it, thanks.

:niceone:

Now you are being silly.
It is up to the buyer to decide if it is dumb or not to buy overseas. Some people on this site believe they should make that decision for other people. I am sure if they have lived in NZ long enough, they are well aware of the cost difference.

$250-$180 = $70 savings. Will you give me $70 since you can afford it. Otherwise, that is sad you are asking others to give it up but, you are not willing yourself.

If the person is looking to replace their springs, I would think they would have done their homework and understand what they are doing. If they make a mistake, then they can sell them on trademe for the price they purchased it. If they were dishonest, they could even get more because of the massive local mark-ups.

The local companies should support the motorcycling community by keeping their prices competitive. The lower the prices, the more motorcycles on the road. Also, the more profit. Everyone wins. When I see something I buy at retail on the other side of the earth for 50-70% of the local price, that is really messed up. Also makes it difficult for the motorcycling community

The only issue I see is the time frame. If I have the time and can order something from the other side of the earth for less, why not. You just need to do your homework before buying. So far, I have been happy with everything I have bought over seas and literally have saved thousands of dollars. When I go to visit the U.S., I am going to pack lite and bring back a bunch of goodies like a mule.

The shit value is up to the individual. I think Starbucks has better coffee than some of the local shops. I have also seen local coffee better than Starbucks. That is hit or miss. If NZ could produce competitive shit, then there would be no need to import. Instead, it seems the business is buying overseas and selling at a markup. Something anyone can do with the invention of the internet. In the U.S. they have a ton of stuff imported from China...why because they are producing it for less. Again, it is the law and supply curve. Where they intersect, you maximize profits with the least amount of work. The supply has increased due to the internet yet the NZ prices have remained high. No wonder nothing is being bought or sold.

[Madness]

Blah, blah, blah. Will you give me $70 since you can afford it.

No, fuck off you jewish cunt.

You really have no clue at all, do you? Still, your posts have reinforced my opinion of Americans as self-centred twats so thanks for that, if nothing else.

Brace yerself New Zealand. It won't be long with fuckwits like these around & there'll probably be only one or two bike shops in each of the main centres, offering a limited choice of biking related merchandise. Still, the Yanks will get richer, eh?

:facepalm:

[wasiler]

No, fuck off you jewish cunt.

You really have no clue at all, do you? Still, your posts have reinforced my opinion of Americans as self-centred twats so thanks for that, if nothing else.

Brace yerself New Zealand. It won't be long with fuckwits tike these around & there'll probably be only one or two bike shops in each of the main centres, offering a limited choice of biking related merchandise. Still, the Yanks will get richer, eh?

:facepalm:


WOW! an anti Semitic remark. Shows the caliber of person you are and your hatred toward others. Also, look who is the one moaning about someone else buying overseas. It is their choice, not yours. If you want to buy local, go for it. If the original poster wants to buy overseas, it is their choice. It appears you are the one that has no clue.

Well, good to see you are not self centered and willing to send me $70 since you are so generous and giving. I will even make you a deal, I will take your $70 and pass it along to the original poster (or send it directly to him) just to show how generous I am. I bet if you did that, he would buy the springs in NZ. I know I would. I love this business model.

Yes, New Zealand and the entire world is changing. It is probably a re-balancing of economic classes. This is mainly to the Chinese flooding the market with low priced goods. There is nothing you can do about it yet some people put their head in the sand thinking things will always be the same. I don't like it anymore than you do but, money talks. The faster NZ will change, the better off they will be in the long run. When you have these stubborn dummies that want to continue the same losing business model, you hurt the NZ economy in the long run. BE COMPETITIVE OR GET OUT.

There will always be motorbike shops in NZ. Probably just not as many and the ones that do survive will be streamlined and be competitive with world prices. You can face reality and adjust or you can continue down your path wondering why people are buying overseas :facepalm:. Just don't moan when others buy from overseas because it is quite clear the reason. I bought a set of leathers from Germany. Literally on the other side of the earth and save literally over $550-$600 dollars on one purchase. If I would have ran into you earlier, you could have given me the difference and I would have bought local NZ since you are not being self-centered and are so generous. Come on man, I'm in NZ now. Help me out, and send me a couple hundred. I promise I will use it only to buy local.

[nzspokes]

Because a lot of people are dumb and look at nothing but the dollar figure

Well the guy I got them from has other product that is bike model specific that I cant get here. I landed it all in just over a week. The springs were 40% cheaper than NZ landed.

Last motorcycle items I ordered locally from a dealer ship took 3 months to arrive. In saying that a motorcycle shop just round from work is great, fast for getting parts and knows his stuff. I buy from him al the time.

[Kickaha]

they could even get more because of the massive local mark-ups.
Just because the price here is more expensive doesn't mean the local mark up is massive

[Madness]

BE COMPETITIVE OR GET OUT.

My reference to you being a Jewish cunt has no bearing on your religious beliefs. It's actually a Kiwi-ism for having your hand out asking for something that you haven't earned. Not that you'll find that interesting as that would entail having an interest in understanding our culture, our society and our way of life.

Once again I'm afraid I'm going to have to say no to your silly requests. See I was born here and you were not, so maybe you should get out, back to your homeland where apparently progress is making all things better.

Incidentally, how many school shootings were there in the U.S this week? Perhaps the families of those killed in mass shootings should understand that life as it used to be, where kids were safe in their class rooms, is now a thing of the past and the loss of their childrens lives were just part of the cost of progress.

It's a nice day, I'm going for a ride. Just need to keep a lookout for clueless immigrants.

[wasiler]

Just because the price here is more expensive doesn't mean the local mark up is massive

Depends on the item. My leathers, I would say that is massive for something that is relatively small and shipping cost were about $30-40 dollars from Germany. Each item has to taken into consideration. You might find it cheaper in NZ. I have not found any but, if I do, then they get the business. If you are not in a Rush, then why not buy cheaper? $250/$180 = 1.39 or a 39% increase in cost. If you are fixing up an old bike or constantly swapping parts, that adds up. I am all for supporting NZ small business but, they need to support the customers too.

I'm am not worried about it because you can't change supply and demand. If you try, the economy will collapse like the Soviet Union did. Small business will adapt over time and it might be painful but they don't have any choice. It is going to happen. The sooner they come into line, the sooner the demand will rise and so will their profits.

look at it this way (any similarities in this hypothetical story is merely coincidental)
Let's say I sell springs. I have a set of springs I sell for let's say $250 dollars. Each spring costs me $150 dollars so I make $100 dollars profit on each set. At the end of the year let's say I sell 1 set so my annual profit is $100

The next year let's say I drop my price to $180 dollars. The demand will goes up and I end up selling 2 sets of springs in a year because people are buying local again. Again, the springs cost me $100 and I make a profit of $80 dollars on each set. Since I sold 2 sets...2*80 = $160. Thus more profit and more people riding. The year after that will probably increase because more and more people will be riding because things are more affordable.

I think it is crazy I can buy something at retail overseas and still save 40%. That is way out of line.

I am open for a debate if someone sees otherwise but, I truly believe this to be true unless someone can convince me otherwise. If you are not making a profit, you either need to add more selections/options to your inventory or get out of business. Just raising the price kills business.

[Madness]

No. Fucking. Idea.

Are you also a Ginga by any chance?

277146

[wasiler]

My reference to you being a Jewish cunt has no bearing on your religious beliefs. It's actually a Kiwi-ism for having your hand out asking for something that you haven't earned. Not that you'll find that interesting as that would entail having an interest in understanding our culture, our society and our way of life.

Once again I'm afraid I'm going to have to say no to your silly requests. See I was born here and you were not, so maybe you should get out, back to your homeland where apparently progress is making all things better.

Incidentally, how many school shootings were there in the U.S this week? Perhaps the families of those killed in mass shootings should understand that life as it used to be, where kids were safe in their class rooms, is now a thing of the past and the loss of their childrens lives were just part of the cost of progress.

It's a nice day, I'm going for a ride. Just need to keep a lookout for clueless immigrants.

My apologies and I do find the Kiwi's way of life fascinating. I am always looking to learn more. If that is part of your culture, give me a couple hundred you jew bastard. I have earned my cash just as you have and have worked very hard for it. You seem to think you are the only hard worker in NZ. Is that part of your society to ask for something you have not earned? You are asking the original poster to give an extra $70.

Yes, those school shootings are a problem in the U.S. and something I am not too proud of. That is a hurtful comment too considering young children have been killed. However, some people with little remorse use it as a weapon or tool to justify their failing argument. Hey, squirrel! Let me know what the next topic or shiny object is.

[wasiler]

No. Fucking. Idea.

Are you also a Ginga by any chance?

277146

Then enlighten me wise one. Your lack substance in your responses and personal attacks indicate you have "No. Fucking. Idea." (another Kiwi-ism I presume?). I have heard nothing out of you that can justify your view. Fucking. Nothing.

[Madness]

Then enlighten me wise one. Your lack substance in your responses and personal attacks indicate you have "No. Fucking. Idea." (another Kiwi-ism I presume?). I have heard nothing out of you that can justify your view. Fucking. Nothing.

There's not much point is there, I mean you're hardly going to listen whilst taking the position you so obviously have. Oh, you might want to remove that quoted image before you get an infraction. I'd hate for you to feel not welcome here.

277148


If you are not making a profit, you either need to add more selections/options to your inventory or get out of business. Just raising the price kills business.

It's hardly a level playing-field though, is it? You seem to have failed (in general) to take into account the cost of stocking a small inventory of a wide range of products, paying wages and rent. You see, some of us like to be able to walk into a shop and see the product, try it on before we buy it. That luxury will disappear if ingnorant cunts keep privately importing what is available locally for minimal benefit.


Yes, New Zealand and the entire world is changing. It is probably a re-balancing of economic classes. This is mainly to the Chinese flooding the market with low priced goods.

How do you think a country of 4 million people at the bottom of the world is going to fare in this global "re-balancing of economic classes"? The problem isn't with low priced goods from China, the problem is the ability of morons to privately import single items available locally whilst avoiding import duties and tarrifs.


The faster NZ will change, the better off they will be in the long run.

Yeah, see I disagree with that. Some of us quite like the way this country is, or at least used to be. Once again, if you don't like it, you could always fuck off home.

[wasiler]

Good luck on your venture.

[Robert Taylor]

Depends on the item. My leathers, I would say that is massive for something that is relatively small and shipping cost were about $30-40 dollars from Germany. Each item has to taken into consideration. You might find it cheaper in NZ. I have not found any but, if I do, then they get the business. If you are not in a Rush, then why not buy cheaper? $250/$180 = 1.39 or a 39% increase in cost. If you are fixing up an old bike or constantly swapping parts, that adds up. I am all for supporting NZ small business but, they need to support the customers too.

I'm am not worried about it because you can't change supply and demand. If you try, the economy will collapse like the Soviet Union did. Small business will adapt over time and it might be painful but they don't have any choice. It is going to happen. The sooner they come into line, the sooner the demand will rise and so will their profits.

look at it this way (any similarities in this hypothetical story is merely coincidental)
Let's say I sell springs. I have a set of springs I sell for let's say $250 dollars. Each spring costs me $150 dollars so I make $100 dollars profit on each set. At the end of the year let's say I sell 1 set so my annual profit is $100

The next year let's say I drop my price to $180 dollars. The demand will goes up and I end up selling 2 sets of springs in a year because people are buying local again. Again, the springs cost me $100 and I make a profit of $80 dollars on each set. Since I sold 2 sets...2*80 = $160. Thus more profit and more people riding. The year after that will probably increase because more and more people will be riding because things are more affordable.

I think it is crazy I can buy something at retail overseas and still save 40%. That is way out of line.

I am open for a debate if someone sees otherwise but, I truly believe this to be true unless someone can convince me otherwise. If you are not making a profit, you either need to add more selections/options to your inventory or get out of business. Just raising the price kills business.

No-one in business is in denial of many of your arguments, and like many small busineeses mine is adapting to the new realities. But what is totally unpalatable is that too many private imports dont attract clearance charges and gst on the value of the goods and all the charges. That is a totally unfair inequity that is helping to paralyse small business in NZ. ( Not just motorcycle businesses ) And evidence the rising unemployment queues, would you care to argue that the statsitics are in part being fueled by this inequity? And its not only NZ that is suffering from this, the situation over the ditch is even worse.

Bear in mind also that a lot of these US based companies work on very slender margins and high volume, unsustainable here, further fueled by the value of the greenback being down the toilet. The US may have saved us from annihilation just over 70 odd years ago but there is a lot about that country that is despicable. Remember they gave the world Lehman Brothers and casino banking.

[wasiler]

No-one in business is in denial of many of your arguments, and like many small busineeses mine is adapting to the new realities. But what is totally unpalatable is that too many private imports dont attract clearance charges and gst on the value of the goods and all the charges. That is a totally unfair inequity that is helping to paralyse small business in NZ. ( Not just motorcycle businesses ) And evidence the rising unemployment queues, would you care to argue that the statsitics are in part being fueled by this inequity? And its not only NZ that is suffering from this, the situation over the ditch is even worse.

Bear in mind also that a lot of these US based companies work on very slender margins and high volume, unsustainable here, further fueled by the value of the greenback being down the toilet. The US may have saved us from annihilation just over 70 odd years ago but there is a lot about that country that is despicable. Remember they gave the world Lehman Brothers and casino banking.

Thank you for having a reasonable discussion on this topic. You have brought up a lot of good points. I thought the same about it being unfair for customs fee to small biz. You guys should be given a discount to keep you competitive and keep the currency flowing.

What is stopping you from selling overseas? Maybe rent some warehouse space in a 3rd world country. The Philippines is in the region and people there make maybe $200 a month? Hire a handful of locals to drop ship but, keep your headquarters here. Christ, you have Kim Dotcom living here. You have the world at your fingertips. There is your volume. Use it. Quit thinking like a street vendor selling hot dogs.

Yes, everyone seemed to be on the U.S. gravy train when things were booming. Now it seems people are unhappy that they are no longer on the free ride. Funny, no one really complained before when the money was flowing. Who would have thought. The U.S. did a pretty good job I think for the past half a century. Will China surpass the U.S., who knows. Will another country lead the way? who knows. The U.S. is not out of the ball game yet. They still have a huge GDP and plenty of room for growth..If another country does surpass and financially lead, I am not sure trading will ever be as fair but, we will see. Maybe I'm wrong.

I was surprised..actually shocked I did not get pinged by customs on my shippment here. Keep in mind, cost of living here is high to begin with. That is where your govt is failing. They are making it to much of a burden on small business and the taxes are causing what I was told "the brain drain" for people. If you are small business, I would think they would give you guys a discount on importing goods. That would get the money circulating and keep you competitive with the rest of the world. Your NZ govt is too big for such a small country and too much is being spent. If it means rough roads, failing infrastructure, closing of public buildings, downsizing govt staff etc. so be it. That is the problem the U.S. is currently fighting. The govt is so bloated, it is not even funny. The waste is off the charts. Something has got to give sooner or later.

[Madness]

:facepalm:

[Robert Taylor]

Thank you for having a reasonable discussion on this topic. You have brought up a lot of good points. I thought the same about it being unfair for customs fee to small biz. You guys should be given a discount to keep you competitive and keep the currency flowing.

What is stopping you from selling overseas? Maybe rent some warehouse space in a 3rd world country. The Philippines is in the region and people there make maybe $200 a month? Hire a handful of locals to drop ship but, keep your headquarters here. Christ, you have Kim Dotcom living here. You have the world at your fingertips. There is your volume. Use it. Quit thinking like a street vendor selling hot dogs.

Yes, everyone seemed to be on the U.S. gravy train when things were booming. Now it seems people are unhappy that they are no longer on the free ride. Funny, no one really complained before when the money was flowing. Who would have thought. The U.S. did a pretty good job I think for the past half a century. Will China surpass the U.S., who knows. Will another country lead the way? who knows. The U.S. is not out of the ball game yet. They still have a huge GDP and plenty of room for growth..If another country does surpass and financially lead, I am not sure trading will ever be as fair but, we will see. Maybe I'm wrong.

I was surprised..actually shocked I did not get pinged by customs on my shippment here. Keep in mind, cost of living here is high to begin with. That is where your govt is failing. They are making it to much of a burden on small business and the taxes are causing what I was told "the brain drain" for people. If you are small business, I would think they would give you guys a discount on importing goods. That would get the money circulating and keep you competitive with the rest of the world. Your NZ govt is too big for such a small country and too much is being spent. If it means rough roads, failing infrastructure, closing of public buildings, downsizing govt staff etc. so be it. That is the problem the U.S. is currently fighting. The govt is so bloated, it is not even funny. The waste is off the charts. Something has got to give sooner or later.

I dont wish to sell overseas, I wish to serve the market here properly. Rather than engaging in dutch auction mentality.

Discounts on taxing imported goods? No, absolutely no. The failure to tax everything that is imported is something that needs addressing and the Government sure needs the revenue

[nzspokes]

Are you personally in an industry ( ANY industry of many ) that is exposed to trying to compete with offshore internet purchases that so often get through without clearance and gst charges?
More to the point do you actually care?

Could you get springs wound up locally to give more Kiwis work rather than buy offshore?

Just remembered back in the day I got springs done for my race car in Penrose.

[wasiler]

I dont wish to sell overseas, I wish to serve the market here properly. Rather than engaging in dutch auction mentality.

Discounts on taxing imported goods? No, absolutely no. The failure to tax everything that is imported is something that needs addressing and the Government sure needs the revenue

Well, I wish you the best of luck on your ideology. Until then, I will let the overseas companies properly serve me. There are many more that think the same as me and the number is just going to grow. The service I have seen here so far has been not that impressive and it costs more. Until you start listening to your customers, you may be in for some choppy water ahead. Otherwise, don't sit there and moan because you think it is unfair that the govt is not penalizing the customer which is also unfair. It sounds like to me you don't care what your customers pay as long as you are making the money. The soviet union had a similar system where everyone was guaranteed a job. How did that turn out?


NZspokes seems to have the right idea. Keep away from the name brand items such as apparel items and make a product that does not break, (such as springs). If it is too expensive, then congratulations, you have gone full circle. Then again, I don't know, maybe you can find some local Kiwis that will work for the same fees as workers in India or other Southeast Asia countries. yeah...

[Robert Taylor]

Could you get springs wound up locally to give more Kiwis work rather than buy offshore?

Just remembered back in the day I got springs done for my race car in Penrose.

There has never been any problem with the quality of work done by the local spring manufacturers. Unless someone can correct me the quality of the steel that many of these guys have used is not up to par.
Possibly also the pricing is something that can only be addressed by volume, something that we dont have a lot of in NZ.
But if I am wrong on that then please let me know

[Robert Taylor]

Well, I wish you the best of luck on your ideology. Until then, I will let the overseas companies properly serve me. There are many more that think the same as me and the number is just going to grow. The service I have seen here so far has been not that impressive and it costs more. Until you start listening to your customers, you may be in for some choppy water ahead. Otherwise, don't sit there and moan because you think it is unfair that the govt is not penalizing the customer which is also unfair. It sounds like to me you don't care what your customers pay as long as you are making the money. The soviet union had a similar system where everyone was guaranteed a job. How did that turn out?


NZspokes seems to have the right idea. Keep away from the name brand items such as apparel items and make a product that does not break, (such as springs). If it is too expensive, then congratulations, you have gone full circle. Then again, I don't know, maybe you can find some local Kiwis that will work for the same fees as workers in India or other Southeast Asia countries. yeah...

Now you have turned the argument into an unreasonable one! For myself I do listen to my customers and there are plenty on this forum who might concur that we have provided great service. We are meeting the new realities as much as is possible but no-one in business will knowingly try and bankrupt themselves to keep the market happy.

And what a ridiculous thing to say ''that the govt is not penalising the customer" If you buy something from a local retailer ( of any product ) you pay gst on the goods and the clearance charges accrued. WHY SHOULD YOU THEN NOT PAY GST ON THE GOODS YOU PRIVATELY IMPORTED??????!!!!! The obstacles to be able to run a business successfully in this country are huge and that is one inequity that retailers have a 200% legitimate right to complain about. Dont forget also that ordinary everyday people rely on such seemingly ''irrelevant'' people such as retailers.

The Government is missing out on a huge amount of revenue through this inability to tax all imports. It seems to be in the hard pile but it should be legislated for the banks to collect it on international transactions. That would also neatly nip in the bud all of the value declaration fraud that is going on.

Many private importers dont end up paying clearance charges and gst on entered goods, often goods beyond the threshold value where customs become interested. The wholesale and retail distribution chain does. WHO IS BEING PENALISED ?

The correct use of the Queens English is to use an s in penalise, not z

Its also being bandied about that 40000 people have lost their jobs in our manufacturing / export sector, because of our high exchange rate. Now I am not a socialist by any means ( far from it ) but it really concerns me that the Government is not listening. Now Im an importer so you cannot accuse in the line of self interest.

[kiwi cowboy]

There has never been any problem with the quality of work done by the local spring manufacturers. Unless someone can correct me the quality of the steel that many of these guys have used is not up to par.
Possibly also the pricing is something that can only be addressed by volume, something that we dont have a lot of in NZ.
But if I am wrong on that then please let me know

Interesting about what you say about the quality of steel the nz guys use as im looking to get a set wound for my 38ml forks off my 87 gsxr400 as i cant seem to be able to get any stiffer springs for it to race with.
Do you have any springs for that bike please or would i have to go local winding (suggestions of where)please

[pete-blen]

Interesting about what you say about the quality of steel the nz guys use as im looking to get a set wound for my 38ml forks off my 87 gsxr400 as i cant seem to be able to get any stiffer springs for it to race with.
Do you have any springs for that bike please or would i have to go local winding (suggestions of where)please

http://www.nzspringworks.co.nz/page192379.html

http://www.pontiacracing.net/js_coil_spring_rate.htm

[nzspokes]

http://www.nzspringworks.co.nz/page192379.html

http://www.pontiacracing.net/js_coil_spring_rate.htm

Brilliant, great post. Will try them if I need springs in future which I will for my XR.

Shame retailers in NZ don't support them. :facepalm:

Oh the irony........ :blink:

[Robert Taylor]

Brilliant, great post. Will try them if I need springs in future which I will for my XR.

Shame retailers in NZ don't support them. :facepalm:

Oh the irony........ :blink:

Given the reservations that I have expressed from previous experience of others thats understandable. But go ahead, if they work long term and dont ''sack out'' then I am all ears.

If they are more expensive than what you have imported already then I guess you will be in a quandry, especially as you will also be paying gst

[kiwi cowboy]

Given the reservations that I have expressed from previous experience of others thats understandable. But go ahead, if they work long term and dont ''sack out'' then I am all ears.

If they are more expensive than what you have imported already then I guess you will be in a quandry, especially as you will also be paying gst

well im going to give them a go seeing as springs arnt available i have no choice.

[Madness]

Brilliant, great post. Will try them if I need springs in future which I will for my XR.

Shame retailers in NZ don't support them. :facepalm:

Oh the irony........ :blink:

Perhaps it would have been intelligent to at least price a set of springs from them before making such a statement?

[Robert Taylor]

well im going to give them a go seeing as springs arnt available i have no choice.

Please let me know how they work and what the cost is

[Robert Taylor]

We have some other listings of fork springs that are in most cases listed at a higher price. ( Ohlins ) Why is this;

1) Superior grade silicon steel sourced from Germany or Sweden. No long term ''sacking out'' issues

2) The ''end conditions'' are very well processed. The very ends tuck round and touch the next coils, so that under tension they dont provide any unwanted progressivity. No sharp end eyes, nicely polished off

3) Tolerancing is very tight, you get the dimensioning and the rate as it is represented as. Many times we have tested aftermarket springs to find them up to a full rate increment out

4) And not unimportantly POLISHING FINISH. Thoroughbred aftermarket fork springs will have a very smooth polished finish. In most forks the spring is supported by the inner walls of the fork tube, to stop it barrelling sideways under compression. If the surface of the springs is rough ( evident on many aftermarket springs ) that creates unwanted friction. Also, any rough surfaces skidding against one another will remove small chards of wear particles that will find their way into the oil and into the valving stacks. Commonly you will see such chards embedded in the soft teflon coatings of fork bushings.

Cheap isnt always best

[kiwi cowboy]

Please let me know how they work and what the cost is

will see how they go.

Not sure where i will get them yet will have a talk to a few listed previously but i was fishing to see if you know of any springs suitable for the bike.

would look at emulators too.

[nzspokes]

By the way, my new springs are great. :woohoo:

[Robert Taylor]

will see how they go.

Not sure where i will get them yet will have a talk to a few listed previously but i was fishing to see if you know of any springs suitable for the bike.

would look at emulators too.

Sorry without sifting back through what is the make model and year again?And your height, weight and application? Often, in the absence of good research material / any direct listings we then ask the customer for the free length and outer diameter of the springs ( plus dimensions of any preload spacer tubes ) and then see if we can match anything.

[Robert Taylor]

By the way, my new springs are great. :woohoo:

Im sure they are, and Im also sure that you are laughing your head off that ( likely ) you paid no clearance and gst charges on them. Had you done the price disparity between buying them offshore and from a local supplier would be tiny. This is the exact problem that NZ retailers in general are so upset with the Government about, and rightly so. Its depriving these retailers of a chance to be competitive on price ( aside from majorly squeezed margins ) and its depriving the Government of much needed tax revenue that it would otherwise accrue. Its lengthening the unemployment queues and negatively impacting on YOUR standard of living.
But do you care about this big picture? I suspect I know the answer.

[Madness]

I suspect I know the answer.

Shortsighted \Short"sight`ed\, a.
1. Not able to see far; nearsighted; myopic. See Myopic,
and Myopia.

2. Fig.: Not able to look far into futurity; unable to
understand things deep; of limited intellect.

3. Having little regard for the future; heedless. --
Short"sight`ed*ly, adv. -- Short"sight`ed*ness, n.

[wasiler]

By the way, my new springs are great. :woohoo:

Hey, did you use the online Race Tech calculator for your weight and bike to determine the best spring rate? If so, I guess you checked your sag and was it closer to what you were looking for? I have a coworker/friend that is looking for stiffer springs on his Kawi. The zip tie on his forks has no room for error. He wants to bump it up a little. Those prices are pretty good too at Race Tech. You can't go wrong with that brand. I had several friends back in Vegas that used them on the racing circuit.

[Madness]

Do they offer a discount for being thick?

[wasiler]

Hey, did you use the online Race Tech calculator for your weight and bike to determine the best spring rate? If so, I guess you checked your sag and was it closer to what you were looking for? I have a coworker/friend that is looking for stiffer springs on his Kawi. The zip tie on his forks has no room for error. He wants to bump it up a little. Those prices are pretty good too at Race Tech. You can't go wrong with that brand. I had several friends back in Vegas that used them on the racing circuit.

Never mind my earlier post, it is just Hooke's law and they give the stock spring rate. I will just work from that information. Thanks for reminding me of this brand. I will pass along their website to him.

[nzspokes]

Hey, did you use the online Race Tech calculator for your weight and bike to determine the best spring rate? If so, I guess you checked your sag and was it closer to what you were looking for? I have a coworker/friend that is looking for stiffer springs on his Kawi. The zip tie on his forks has no room for error. He wants to bump it up a little. Those prices are pretty good too at Race Tech. You can't go wrong with that brand. I had several friends back in Vegas that used them on the racing circuit.

I did use that but spoke to Dale at Holeshot Performance who is a Bandit specialist. Both can back with the spring weight I got. Sag is perfect to what they say. He gave me some advice for other parts of the bike which has been bang on. Will be getting some other stuff from him as money allows.

Springs cost $135 plus freight, but that was in with other gear I got.

[wasiler]

I did use that but spoke to Dale at Holeshot Performance who is a Bandit specialist. Both can back with the spring weight I got. Sag is perfect to what they say. He gave me some advice for other parts of the bike which has been bang on. Will be getting some other stuff from him as money allows.

Springs cost $135 plus freight, but that was in with other gear I got.

Yeah, I know, very reasonable price. That is why I am passing along your thread. About how long did it take to get?

[nzspokes]

Yeah, I know, very reasonable price. That is why I am passing along your thread. About how long did it take to get?

7 working days.

[wasiler]

7 working days.

frack! that is better than I thought you were going to tell me. Thanks for the info and enjoy your new suspension.

[Robert Taylor]

What is really sad about all this:

1) Its clear that the Government is unwilling to tax everyone consistently, and therefore fairly. Businesses are always targeted for clearance and gst charges, not so too many private imports

2) Its hard to compete with companies that have massive buying power and very slender margins, sustainable only by big volume. Argue as much as you want about this.

3) Our dollar is clearly too strong against especially greenbacks, especially for the export sector. At 60 to 65 cents our export sector ( which incidentally is VERY important, the most important sector ) would be prospering.

Against those factors and a number of others its very simple for people to simplistically label NZ retailers as rip off merchants, when in fact the reason for such disparities are quite complex and very difficult to resolve.

Its also very clear that there is a hardcore level of people who dont care where they shop as long as its the cheapest deal, and it matters not to them how it negatively impacts on our fellow Kiwis.

Call me old fashioned, Id rather see our country prosper than propping up the US economy all the time while through the fault of Governments not accruing any tax revenue from it.

[pete-blen]

I understand where you are coming from Robert...But if theres a massive prise diffrents
you have to draw the line somewhere..

I have spent over $2000 on my XT660 from over seas... but every part I have got
is not available in NZ... I will buy in NZ if the part is stocked , But I draw the line at
around 50% more exspensive in NZ..
you have to remember the money dosn't just apair in our bank accounts..we do work for it...
the yanks ain't seen any of my $...
UK - Metal mule exhaust / AUS - bash plate x2 / Brazil - Gillimoto tank..
I would have sorced these in NZ but NO ONE has them... at times we are forced to
buy off shore...
I'm off the opinion for smaller cheaper bits if the part is no more than 50% dearer here.. buy it here..
but I wouldn't liked to have payed 50% more for the exhaust or tank in NZ...


Pete

[Viscount Montgomery]

Taylors arrogance is extreme, a scurrying middleman full of rhetoric, hanging around a biker site grasping at peoples wallets. A self righteous prat thru and thru. The fucking arrogance to label people buying online to save themselves a few bucks to pay bills or put some extra food in their cupboards as arseholes. What an ignorant jerk.

The same fucking arrogance to sit here with head up own arse labeling any backyard mechanics who work on their own bikes as idiots/morons. All the time sitting here on a high horse surrounded by phony, fawning, squid-riding, givi-wearing, ass-lick sycophantic cronies living in a little fantasy world of sticky rubber and fiddled suspension. Bitching that it's all so unfair on himself, wants others penalized and taxed even more, yet all the time this jackass doesn't even have his own product. What a tosser supreme.

This is the same piece of work who secretly colluded with racetech to halt their online sales to kiwis, then proceeded to sneakily monopolize the sale of racetech products at inflated prices all to himself without a word muttered about it. Shrewd and as slimy as they come. Always has an answer and an excuse. A national party toady who votes for, defends, apologizes and supports the likes of ratfink Key, slime-ball English and stinking dogshit weasel-turd N.smith. The same smirking elitist cunts with priorities totally totally fucking twisted who are fucking this country over like never before. Yet now suddenly these fucking creeps aren't the best thing since sliced bread? .. Oh the fucking irony of it all.

Yes the economy's lurching into epic-fail under our leadership so lets just give ourselves a pay-rise for christmas and we'll backdate the fucker a year with it. Fuck every other cunt, we need a new fleet of beemers to look the part again and we need a few more billion to pay fees to shifty dodging consultants for more phony bullshit advice guaranteed to fuck the country even more...

So lets just close a few more schools, hit small business with more rules, bills and cynical regulations, increase tax on gas again and get rid of a few more cops and nurses with it. We're ok ourselves with our own inflated salaries and perks Jack, so employment for the masses can now get fucked for the next few years or so. Don't worry, just put some more razor wire around your doors and windows to keep all the desperate scum out there at bay. Or move to Remuera, there's no crime or lowlife there.

End of the day all these creepy bastards are so full of shit, their main concern in this life is the size of their own private bank accounts

[Robert Taylor]

Taylors arrogance is extreme, a scurrying middleman full of rhetoric, hanging around a biker site grasping at peoples wallets. A self righteous prat thru and thru. The fucking arrogance to label people buying online to save themselves a few bucks to pay bills or put some extra food in their cupboards as arseholes. What an ignorant jerk.

The same fucking arrogance to sit here with head up own arse labeling any backyard mechanics who work on their own bikes as idiots/morons. All the time sitting here on a high horse surrounded by phony, fawning, squid-riding, givi-wearing, ass-lick sycophantic cronies living in a little fantasy world of sticky rubber and fiddled suspension. Bitching that it's all so unfair on himself, wants others penalized and taxed even more, yet all the time this jackass doesn't even have his own product. What a tosser supreme.

This is the same piece of work who secretly colluded with racetech to halt their online sales to kiwis, then proceeded to sneakily monopolize the sale of racetech products at inflated prices all to himself without a word muttered about it. Shrewd and as slimy as they come. Always has an answer and an excuse. A national party toady who votes for, defends, apologizes and supports the likes of ratfink Key, slime-ball English and stinking dogshit weasel-turd N.smith. The same smirking elitist cunts with priorities totally totally fucking twisted who are fucking this country over like never before. Yet now suddenly these fucking creeps aren't the best thing since sliced bread? .. Oh the fucking irony of it all.

Yes the economy's lurching into epic-fail under our leadership so lets just give ourselves a pay-rise for christmas and we'll backdate the fucker a year with it. Fuck every other cunt, we need a new fleet of beemers to look the part again and we need a few more billion to pay fees to shifty dodging consultants for more phony bullshit advice guaranteed to fuck the country even more...

So lets just close a few more schools, hit small business with more rules, bills and cynical regulations, increase tax on gas again and get rid of a few more cops and nurses with it. We're ok ourselves with our own inflated salaries and perks Jack, so employment for the masses can now get fucked for the next few years or so. Don't worry, just put some more razor wire around your doors and windows to keep all the desperate scum out there at bay. Or move to Remuera, there's no crime or lowlife there.

End of the day all these creepy bastards are so full of shit, their main concern in this life is the size of their own private bank accounts

THE SEWERS OF THE WORLD POUR FORTH THEIR FILTH............... There is nothing more creepy and GUTLESS than someone filthy of mouth and accusations hiding behind a forum name

[Robert Taylor]

Taylors arrogance is extreme, a scurrying middleman full of rhetoric, hanging around a biker site grasping at peoples wallets. A self righteous prat thru and thru. The fucking arrogance to label people buying online to save themselves a few bucks to pay bills or put some extra food in their cupboards as arseholes. What an ignorant jerk.

The same fucking arrogance to sit here with head up own arse labeling any backyard mechanics who work on their own bikes as idiots/morons. All the time sitting here on a high horse surrounded by phony, fawning, squid-riding, givi-wearing, ass-lick sycophantic cronies living in a little fantasy world of sticky rubber and fiddled suspension. Bitching that it's all so unfair on himself, wants others penalized and taxed even more, yet all the time this jackass doesn't even have his own product. What a tosser supreme.

This is the same piece of work who secretly colluded with racetech to halt their online sales to kiwis, then proceeded to sneakily monopolize the sale of racetech products at inflated prices all to himself without a word muttered about it. Shrewd and as slimy as they come. Always has an answer and an excuse. A national party toady who votes for, defends, apologizes and supports the likes of ratfink Key, slime-ball English and stinking dogshit weasel-turd N.smith. The same smirking elitist cunts with priorities totally totally fucking twisted who are fucking this country over like never before. Yet now suddenly these fucking creeps aren't the best thing since sliced bread? .. Oh the fucking irony of it all.

Yes the economy's lurching into epic-fail under our leadership so lets just give ourselves a pay-rise for christmas and we'll backdate the fucker a year with it. Fuck every other cunt, we need a new fleet of beemers to look the part again and we need a few more billion to pay fees to shifty dodging consultants for more phony bullshit advice guaranteed to fuck the country even more...

So lets just close a few more schools, hit small business with more rules, bills and cynical regulations, increase tax on gas again and get rid of a few more cops and nurses with it. We're ok ourselves with our own inflated salaries and perks Jack, so employment for the masses can now get fucked for the next few years or so. Don't worry, just put some more razor wire around your doors and windows to keep all the desperate scum out there at bay. Or move to Remuera, there's no crime or lowlife there.

End of the day all these creepy bastards are so full of shit, their main concern in this life is the size of their own private bank accounts

Its Race Tech policy not to sell worldwide direct to the public, that is why they have retailers. This is no different to most other manufacturers of a wide range of products. Manufacturers generally dont sell direct, they have a distribution chain to do that for them.

[Robert Taylor]

I understand where you are coming from Robert...But if theres a massive prise diffrents
you have to draw the line somewhere..

I have spent over $2000 on my XT660 from over seas... but every part I have got
is not available in NZ... I will buy in NZ if the part is stocked , But I draw the line at
around 50% more exspensive in NZ..
you have to remember the money dosn't just apair in our bank accounts..we do work for it...
the yanks ain't seen any of my $...
UK - Metal mule exhaust / AUS - bash plate x2 / Brazil - Gillimoto tank..
I would have sorced these in NZ but NO ONE has them... at times we are forced to
buy off shore...
I'm off the opinion for smaller cheaper bits if the part is no more than 50% dearer here.. buy it here..
but I wouldn't liked to have payed 50% more for the exhaust or tank in NZ...


Pete

Yes I totally accept what you are saying and indeed its gradually morphing into a situation where there will likely be no retailers inbetween.

This is not an easy situation, but I am trying to highlight what is an essentially ''false'' situation where no clearance charges and gst are paid. This widens the gap even further, placing small NZ businesses at a further disadvantage. No Governments seem prepared to tackle this inequity, not even my favoured National party.

Given that most tax collected comes from small NZ businesses ( as a whole ) I really wonder aloud how much of that tax take has been eroded given the internet revolution. No one of course likes taxes and personally I would be in favour of a flat consumption tax only. But of course we need to have ( reasonable )taxation to fund the social services we have all come to know and expect .

[nzspokes]

This is not an easy situation, but I am trying to highlight what is an essentially ''false'' situation where no clearance charges and gst are paid.

My understanding of why they dont try to collect GST on orders that attract less than $60 GST is that compliance would be higher than collection.

But would the clearence and gst charges account for the retail in NZ being 85% higher than the US retail?

[Robert Taylor]

My understanding of why they dont try to collect GST on orders that attract less than $60 GST is that compliance would be higher than collection.

But would the clearence and gst charges account for the retail in NZ being 85% higher than the US retail?

That is why NZ retailers are advocating that the banks collect clearance and gst at the point of monetary transaction. Whichever way, it isnt easy. 85% is a pretty wild generalisation and I guess that is seen on some products. But with many price parity is in fact very close. Where there is a disparity in fairness you have to factor in what clearance and gst would have cost you, because after all that is what the distribution chain is charged. Then the disparity narrows considerably.
As I also eluded to its slowly morphing into a situation where there will no longer exist a distributor margin and then a retailers margin, both of which are being squeezed to breaking point. There may only be one local source at a price that is competitive, you wont be able to ride around the corner to the local retailer.

[nzspokes]

$249.90 per pair gst incl

US retail at the time conversion rate, NZD $135.

[Robert Taylor]

us retail at the time conversion rate, nzd $135.

now factor in freight if it wasnt consolidated with other stuff, add clearance charges , port fees and then gst on top of it all.

[nzspokes]

now factor in freight if it wasnt consolidated with other stuff, add clearance charges , port fees and then gst on top of it all.

So you buy at US retail?

[wasiler]

Its Race Tech policy not to sell worldwide direct to the public, that is why they have retailers. This is no different to most other manufacturers of a wide range of products. Manufacturers generally dont sell direct, they have a distribution chain to do that for them.

I am a little confused by this statement. I went to the racetech website, they had a handy calculator to help pick your spring rate based on bike and weight, they have the option to purchase. Someone should let them know that their policy is not to sell to the public.

With these NZ prices, I think I might go in business for myself. Just get a customer request, order it in 7 days or just drop ship it directly to the customers' door. Hell, 30 minutes of my time to make $100 sounds like a pretty good rate. Anybody interested in some springs. I have a sale right now going on. $200 plus shipping. You would be doing the country a service by buying local. :laugh:

[hayd3n]

I am a little confused by this statement. I went to the racetech website, they had a handy calculator to help pick your spring rate based on bike and weight, they have the option to purchase. Someone should let them know that their policy is not to sell to the public.

With these NZ prices, I think I might go in business for myself. Just get a customer request, order it in 7 days or just drop ship it directly to the customers' door. Hell, 30 minutes of my time to make $100 sounds like a pretty good rate. Anybody interested in some springs. I have a sale right now going on. $200 plus shipping. You would be doing the country a service by buying local. :laugh:

what if i want to return them?
what if you send me the wrong ones?
what if you send them to the wrong place??
can you also advise me of the correct springs for racing? / and correct fork oil?
preload spacers?

[Robert Taylor]

I am a little confused by this statement. I went to the racetech website, they had a handy calculator to help pick your spring rate based on bike and weight, they have the option to purchase. Someone should let them know that their policy is not to sell to the public.

With these NZ prices, I think I might go in business for myself. Just get a customer request, order it in 7 days or just drop ship it directly to the customers' door. Hell, 30 minutes of my time to make $100 sounds like a pretty good rate. Anybody interested in some springs. I have a sale right now going on. $200 plus shipping. You would be doing the country a service by buying local. :laugh:

So what you are saying is that you would order each set individually and get them sent to a residential address thereby evading entry fees / port charges, clearance and gst on the declared value and all those charges? From time to time there are people doing just that sort of unethical business. I.e Not operating as a legitimate business, evading tax and being less than economical with the truth of what you are doing. And of course you will have a technical backup service and be fully knowledgable in all things suspension?

And if you had enquiries from dealers you would also build in a dealer margin????????????????????????????????????????????

Its little wonder that the rules of operating on Trade Me have been tightened up

[Madness]

277685

Oh, look!, that deer has no eyes.

[Robert Taylor]

So you buy at US retail?

Of course I dont and you would be surprised what the buy price is compared to US retail, its not that wonderful. One thing practically everyone has overlooked is that the US buy price that is stated is exempt of local US taxes. If you are a US customer purchasing within the US you will be paying freight, federal and state taxes ( consumption taxes effectively ) So if a domestic US buyer is paying tax on the goods why shouldnt an overseas buyer pay local taxes?

Anyway, you evaded my question about what the springs would cost with representative freight content, port fees, clearance and gst, because its clearly not important to you. But its deadly important to NZ retailers and the people they employ who are in part being crucified by this imbalance of private importers not being charged like they are.

Its great on this forum to have reasoned debate with people who will listen and see all sides of the story, but on the other hand there is just so much emotive nonsense on here ( evidence the gutless Viscount Montgomery, is he an opposition suspension guy? ) and people who havent got a good thing to say about NZ business. But are also not prepared to understand why the world trading situation is as it is

We have sold a few springs today including to dealers who for their work deserve a decent margin, and as part of jobs that we have done today. We have customers who we are very flexible on price with, as the situation requires. For the most part our customers are all very decent people and we respond in kind . Thats business, but if people come out all guns blazing and are abrasive then Im not going to go the extra mile.

I did a post in this thread about what to look for with springs, I forgot another point that I just realised today. Ohlins fork springs ( our most expensive for previously stated reasons ) are laser etched on their ends with the part number series and their rate. When you come across such springs at a later date and there is no documentation this information is invaluable and saves a lot of time. Most other springs are ink rated on their sides and that can rub off in short order.

And a word about spring rate calculators ( Race Tech etc ) Tongue in cheek they are not always gospel. They dont account for rider height ( and therefore implied leverage ) They dont account for rider preference ( not unimportant ) They dont account for tyres used and that can sometimes have a not insignificant effect ) They also dont account for how any extra loading is displaced . More than a few times we have adjusted spring rate from ''the reccommendation'' to make the customer happy.

But what would I know? Apparently all the info is on the net, its dead easy and anyone can do it....................

[wasiler]

what if i want to return them?
what if you send me the wrong ones?
what if you send them to the wrong place??
can you also advise me of the correct springs for racing? / and correct fork oil?
preload spacers?

I was being facetious. Seriously though, anyone that is interested in starting a business, this might be a good opportunity if you do your homework. I have a career I like and have no desire to get into this biz. If I was unsure and looking to start a biz, I would surely look into this. You can buy retail from overseas and sell it for a profit here. Go figure. Trademe could be your store which I am sure a lot of people are doing that right now.

If you buy the springs, you should have done enough research to understand, that has a lot to do with the rider, track, bike and other factors. The rest is up to the rider to experiment and don't be afraid to. Just don't go balls to the wall after a major change. Just keep a log of your settings and check your tires/times after each session...or go for a ride and see what you like if you're not into track. If it worse, go the other way. If it gets screwy, go back to your original settings and start over. I have got a spread sheet that I keep on my phone and computer with all of my settings (original, track and street). If I make a change, I record it. I use 2 different settings because the roads are crap out here and the track is rather smooth. If it rides better, I make a note of it. If it is worse, I go the other direction. You can also learn a lot by being able to read the tires. Again, check youtube or go to your local track day and talk to the guys. There are some super fast cats out there. They are always willing to help and very nice people to chat with. I can honestly say that I have gathered a lot more information from talking to people at the track than a 10 minute conversation with someone standing behind a counter. I have even got incorrect information from people in sales plenty of times. If you do take it to a shop and just take the first setting out of the shop and leave it because joe-blow said so, then you might be missing out on a lot more speed or comfort by not experimenting...whatever you're looking for.

Give a person a fish he will eat for a day.
Teach a person to fish he will eat for life.

[Robert Taylor]

Taylors arrogance is extreme, a scurrying middleman full of rhetoric, hanging around a biker site grasping at peoples wallets. A self righteous prat thru and thru. The fucking arrogance to label people buying online to save themselves a few bucks to pay bills or put some extra food in their cupboards as arseholes. What an ignorant jerk.

The same fucking arrogance to sit here with head up own arse labeling any backyard mechanics who work on their own bikes as idiots/morons. All the time sitting here on a high horse surrounded by phony, fawning, squid-riding, givi-wearing, ass-lick sycophantic cronies living in a little fantasy world of sticky rubber and fiddled suspension. Bitching that it's all so unfair on himself, wants others penalized and taxed even more, yet all the time this jackass doesn't even have his own product. What a tosser supreme.

This is the same piece of work who secretly colluded with racetech to halt their online sales to kiwis, then proceeded to sneakily monopolize the sale of racetech products at inflated prices all to himself without a word muttered about it. Shrewd and as slimy as they come. Always has an answer and an excuse. A national party toady who votes for, defends, apologizes and supports the likes of ratfink Key, slime-ball English and stinking dogshit weasel-turd N.smith. The same smirking elitist cunts with priorities totally totally fucking twisted who are fucking this country over like never before. Yet now suddenly these fucking creeps aren't the best thing since sliced bread? .. Oh the fucking irony of it all.

Yes the economy's lurching into epic-fail under our leadership so lets just give ourselves a pay-rise for christmas and we'll backdate the fucker a year with it. Fuck every other cunt, we need a new fleet of beemers to look the part again and we need a few more billion to pay fees to shifty dodging consultants for more phony bullshit advice guaranteed to fuck the country even more...

So lets just close a few more schools, hit small business with more rules, bills and cynical regulations, increase tax on gas again and get rid of a few more cops and nurses with it. We're ok ourselves with our own inflated salaries and perks Jack, so employment for the masses can now get fucked for the next few years or so. Don't worry, just put some more razor wire around your doors and windows to keep all the desperate scum out there at bay. Or move to Remuera, there's no crime or lowlife there.

End of the day all these creepy bastards are so full of shit, their main concern in this life is the size of their own private bank accounts

The sad thing is Kerry, I partially agree with some of your latter paragraphs, but not your delivery.

( Note that I have helped a lot of people on this forum for no commercial gain, and will happily continue to do so )

[wasiler]

A U.S. buyer only has to pay sales tax on the item if the item is sold is in the state they are are. Racetech is in Cali I believe, so Cali residents would have to pay taxes but not the rest of the U.S. I also did not have to pay taxes when I bought recently from Germany and saved over $550 dollars on one purchase.

[Robert Taylor]

I was being facetious. Seriously though, anyone that is interested in starting a business, this might be a good opportunity if you do your homework. I have a career I like and have no desire to get into this biz. If I was unsure and looking to start a biz, I would surely look into this. You can buy retail from overseas and sell it for a profit here. Go figure. Trademe could be your store which I am sure a lot of people are doing that right now.

If you buy the springs, you should have done enough research to understand, that has a lot to do with the rider, track, bike and other factors. The rest is up to the rider to experiment and don't be afraid to. Just don't go balls to the wall after a major change. Just keep a log of your settings and check your tires/times after each session...or go for a ride and see what you like if you're not into track. If it worse, go the other way. If it gets screwy, go back to your original settings and start over. I have got a spread sheet that I keep on my phone and computer with all of my settings (original, track and street). If I make a change, I record it. I use 2 different settings because the roads are crap out here and the track is rather smooth. If it rides better, I make a note of it. If it is worse, I go the other direction. You can also learn a lot by being able to read the tires. Again, check youtube or go to your local track day and talk to the guys. There are some super fast cats out there. They are always willing to help and very nice people to chat with. I can honestly say that I have gathered a lot more information from talking to people at the track than a 10 minute conversation with someone standing behind a counter. I have even got incorrect information from people in sales plenty of times. If you do take it to a shop and just take the first setting out of the shop and leave it because joe-blow said so, then you might be missing out on a lot more speed or comfort by not experimenting...whatever you're looking for.

Give a person a fish he will eat for a day.
Teach a person to fish he will eat for life.

Some very fair points in your second paragraph

[Robert Taylor]

A U.S. buyer only has to pay sales tax on the item if the item is sold is in the state they are are. Racetech is in Cali I believe, so Cali residents would have to pay taxes but not the rest of the U.S. I also did not have to pay taxes when I bought recently from Germany and saved over $550 dollars on one purchase.

No one is arguing when the price discrepancy is HUGE. Candidly, the other issue that is really challenging distributors worldwide is that there is also an expectation to build in a dealer margin. So you stop selling to dealers and have one price? Dealers themselves have to make a margin ( and a reasonable one ) to survive

[wasiler]

No one is arguing when the price discrepancy is HUGE. Candidly, the other issue that is really challenging distributors worldwide is that there is also an expectation to build in a dealer margin. So you stop selling to dealers and have one price? Dealers themselves have to make a margin ( and a reasonable one ) to survive

Just correcting what appears to be incorrect information. The law of supply and demand naturally takes care of the weaker businesses. Every company I would think would want to survive but, this is not a utopian society. I hope your company survives. In reality, I don't see any changes on the horizon.

[Robert Taylor]

Just correcting what appears to be incorrect information. The law of supply and demand naturally takes care of the weaker businesses. Every company I would think would want to survive but, this is not a utopian society. I hope your company survives. In reality, I don't see any changes on the horizon.

Yes I dont see any changes anytime soon. For the record we are doing ok, if not for the fact we work really hard at that being so. But for all businesses I think this inequity of who pays gst is unfair. If you get two identical packages sent at the same time, same supplier, same value goods close to ''the threshold of customs interest '' One is addressed to a residential address and one to a known business. Which of these two addresses is far more likely to be intercepted for clearance charges and gst?

[nzspokes]

Anyway, you evaded my question about what the springs would cost with representative freight content, port fees, clearance and gst, because its clearly not important to you. But its deadly important to NZ retailers and the people they employ who are in part being crucified by this imbalance of private importers not being charged like they are.


Cost me $330 and a bit of change for the springs, set of iridium plugs, timing advancer and a valve adjusting tool. That was landed into NZ so includes freight.

[Robert Taylor]

Cost me $330 and a bit of change for the springs, set of iridium plugs, timing advancer and a valve adjusting tool. That was landed into NZ so includes freight.

Thats not an answer to the very specific question that I forwarded. I give up, the issue that I have repeatedly highlighted is something that you and many others care nothing at all about, or its short and long term ramifications.Conversely, I for one will continue to care about the future of small NZ businesses and the people that they employ.

[Madness]

I give up.

Stupidity can't be cured unfortunately.

[nzspokes]

I give up

Good, because what I originally asked which spring set was better to which I found the answer. The rest was just boring. :yawn:

[Madness]

Good, because what I originally asked which spring set was better to which I found the answer. The rest was just boring. :yawn:

Acually the OP was boring. The thread got interesting in the middle there in the kind of way that a train smash is interesting. Now it's just sad & pathetic, a bit like watching a wild animal ignore its young & letting it starve to death.

[Robert Taylor]

Well guys, what are you going to do when the last shop that stocks motorcycle clothing and helmets closes? Where will you go locally to try on gear to confirm sizing? And then buy it off the net.............

[hayd3n]

+ if you take %15 gst off $249.95 they are pretty cheap really
and you get to support New Zealand
and %100 local support

[Madness]

Well guys, what are you going to do when the last shop that stocks motorcycle clothing and helmets closes? Where will you go locally to try on gear to confirm sizing? And then buy it off the net.............

And bicycle shops...

[tigertim20]

Its all good till you realise the wrong itme was sent, and you gotta pay return postage, wait four weeks till it gets there, then wait another 5 weeks for them to send it.

Or you get some chink saying me no send wong ting, you no fit well your fault bye

[Robert Taylor]

As this thread well proves there will always be those who will simplistically lambast retailers for being rip offs, much of it is unjustified and some doubtless is justified. This is irrespective of what the industry is and I have to wonder aloud how many of those throwing acid are themselves employed by ( and dependent for a living ) industries that are percieved as ripping people off. With another major Auckland dealer shutting its doors it just goes to prove that dealers just have to jump through too many hoops to try and make ends meet in a trading environment that doesnt ( fairly ) tax across the board and is essentially open slather.

I have to also wonder aloud how many on here that have decried ACC levies on motorcyclists ( and there are justifications for and against ) while at the same time have bought lots of stuff over the net from overseas companies and have rarely been intercepted for clearance and gst charges. In case we are inclined to forget the social services we are all used to including ACC are assisted in funding by the overall tax take. But also there are people out there who just cannot see the big picture beyond their own pocket and comfort zone. That is not to deride those who havent got a lot of expendable income, its just that the whole situation self perpetuates into a vicious cycle. And people wonder why real wage rates in NZ are pretty much suppressed, except if you are a politician or a high ranked council employee feeding off the public purse!

Anyway, some further comments about FORK SPRINGS, stuff that I personally take for granted but not everyone will be aware of:

1) As previously eluded to the Race Tech and other spring rate calculators are certainly not foolproof, especially for less common models. Today I recieved an order for a set of fork springs for an earlier model of Japanese bike. I entered the customer weight and application into the search function and got back complete garbage, approximately 2 half rates away from what I know from experience will work. Also, when selecting fork springs for bikes with old style damper rod forks ( that have abysmal low speed hydraulic control ) there is a tendency to err on the firmer side to compensate for the lack of damping. But if you do a complete job by fitting Race Tech emulators ( thereby sorting out 50% of the issue being damping related ) then you can afford to be not as aggressive with the spring selection. This is all about COMBINATIONS.

2) Most mainstream aftermarket springs are generic in length and they wont match the dimensions of the original fork springs. This means that you have to ( using blank preload tube supplied in the kit ) calculate the length required for cutting the new preload spacers and then cut them, SQUARELY. This ideally should be done with a lathe but of course not everyone has access to a lathe and I have to wonder how many self instals are not so good. In recognising our despicably abrasive friend Viscount Montgomerys ( Kerry somebodys? ) comments this is not to say that there will be plenty of people out there more than capable of doing an excellent job. But the whole point is this is not a straightforward ''throw them in deal'', it takes not insignificant time and it is very very easy to stuff up. BUT ALSO, having less lengths to make keeps the manufacturing costs down and therefore the end price to the consumer. For our own customers that need assistance with this we will often cut the preload spacer tubes ( at no further charge ), we are just a phone call away in real time and we have most stock that can most times be sent overnight / next working day.

3 ) Ohlins while likely not unique in this respect make a range of fork springs that are specific to many models that they list them for. it seems every single road bike takes a length spring totally specific to it and often the internal diameters are different at each end as well. If you fit mass market springs that are not matched in internal diameters installation will be that the spring doesnt centralise properly and will rub and make lots of noise. Not ideal. Ohlins fork springs are specific to each individual model and are dimensioned exactly the same as the originals so that they will assemble with the original preload spacers and centralisation / holding pieces. This saves a lot of work and if you are paying someone to instal its arguable that the extra you spent on them will be offset ( maybe more than offset ) by less labour content.( Assuming the installer is honest ) It makes the whole job a hell of a lot easier and there is no chance of stuffing up the preload calculation. For this reason of model specific sizing ( less volume for each production run ), extra processing of variant end diameters and all of the other aforementioned reasons in previous posts on this thread its then easy to understand why Ohlins fork springs are usually more expensive.
The negatives are that the range wont cover everything from year dot and that there arent rate options for more irregular weight loadings. For a small distributor in a very cost conscious market ( often totally blinkered by cost without understanding the full reasons why ) its also impossible to stock hundreds upon hundreds of listings, some with very very slow stock turn. Theres also some reticence to stock heavily when the imbalanced import tax situation means you are often in a dutch auction with some Yank company that is insulated by distance if something is not right. But for anything that isnt available immediately we can usually have here within a maximum of 3 weeks ex Stockholm, often faster. We still sell a good few of these model specific springs as there are still customers more preoccupied with quality rather than the lowest possible price being the only driving factor

4) I mentioned in a previous thread about how Ohlins fork springs are indelibly laser etched with their rate on their ends. And how this saves a lot of grief later on. And also how many aftermarket fork springs are ink marked for rate ( which can wear off quickly) or not at all. That becomes a real pain in the butt further down the track with say a subsequent owner, no easily accessible historical data etc etc.
WHAT TO DO? Calcualtion formulae, using spring dimensions is certainly not foolproof given end conditions and other factors, etc etc. Testing rear shock springs is easy enough with a professional digital spring rate tester, but measuring fork springs this way requires a different load cell and a means of positively supporting / centralising the long length of a fork spring while it is being tested. This without allowing the spring to barrell sideways while being placed under a testing load or to have excessive rubbing friction placed upon it, affecting the accuracy of reading.
We were so frustrated with the inadequacies of everything commercially available for testing fork springs and the poor repeatability that ( at not inconsiderable cost ) we built our own very quick and simple to use fork spring tester. This has a whole series of guide blocks to support a huge plethora of fork spring diameters and lengths. Moreover it is quick and accurate. So if someone has a set of fork springs that they are unsure what their rate is we can test. This is also very useful for shortening springs ( which increases their rate ) and then actually knowing 100% what the rate ends up at. No guesswork, just as with our suspension dyno.

The above is information and not intended solely for commercial gain. But we are here to serve the NZ market to the best our ability and we put our (modest)returns back into business investment and the LOCAL economy. I am happy to engage in positive questions / comments

[Robert Taylor]

And there is another factor worthy of consideration. Except in dirtbike applications where you will have up to around 300mm of travel you dont have to fill the forks up with really long fork springs. Consistent with having enough stroke integrity and therefore no coil bind at ''full closed ''there is a lot of merit in having the fork springs as short as possible, matched to much longer preload spacer tubes. This reduces weight but more importantly it reduces the length of rubbing friction where the inner walls of the fork tubes are used to support the fork springs.
Thoroughbred race forks/ cartridge kits of course have inner fluted spring guides ( usually made of nylon ) and the springs never get to touch the inner fork walls. But it is still a good mentality to minimise the length of the springs. Of course you pay more for such technology but not everything is about price.
Traxxion Dynamics have a good system with their omni springs, with the springs are supplied internal nylon spring guide kits. This makes the whole package more expensive, but this all works really well.
Another thing to consider is that apples for apples if you change to a firmer spring rate ( using the same spring manufacturer and series ) you raise the oil level in the fork and therefore seconday trapped air spring compression ratio. This because the heavier wire used in the firmer spring will displace more volume.

[Morcs]

A lot of people dont seem to understand the sheer costs of overheads of keeping a phyical business open when they make out that dealers are making heaps of money when stuff is quite a bit more expensive.
For an average dealership, probably paying 500k a year just on a lease and wagebill to have a shop with people in it.

[pete-blen]

And there is another factor worthy of consideration. Except in dirtbike applications where you will have up to around 300mm of travel you dont have to fill the forks up with really long fork springs. Consistent with having enough stroke integrity and therefore no coil bind at ''full closed ''there is a lot of merit in having the fork springs as short as possible, matched to much longer preload spacer tubes. This reduces weight but more importantly it reduces the length of rubbing friction where the inner walls of the fork tubes are used to support the fork springs.
Thoroughbred race forks/ cartridge kits of course have inner fluted spring guides ( usually made of nylon ) and the springs never get to touch the inner fork walls. But it is still a good mentality to minimise the length of the springs. Of course you pay more for such technology but not everything is about price.
Traxxion Dynamics have a good system with their omni springs, with the springs are supplied internal nylon spring guide kits. This makes the whole package more expensive, but this all works really well.
Another thing to consider is that apples for apples if you change to a firmer spring rate ( using the same spring manufacturer and series ) you raise the oil level in the fork and therefore seconday trapped air spring compression ratio. This because the heavier wire used in the firmer spring will displace more volume.

another fact with compression springs is as they compress the dia incresses as they try to un-wined...
So a tight/snug fit in the tube would not be a good idea...
have you ever measured the un-compressed & compressed Dia of a spring...

[Robert Taylor]

another fact with compression springs is as they compress the dia incresses as they try to un-wined...
So a tight/snug fit in the tube would not be a good idea...
Have you ever measured the un-compressed & compressed dia of a spring...

yes indeed, and not all spring brands are equal in that respect as well!