KTM headshake

[KTM200/stevo0987]

I got a 2004 200exc about a month ago and ive got headshake about 7 times at about 80kmh and boy did i shit myself (not literily lol) ive taken it to the dome valley mx park twice and both times i get really bad headshake in the whoops,im about 55kg 15 years old, the front suspention is perfect it hasnt bottomed out yet which is good cos i do like to do jumps,the back suspention is nice but it has bottomed out 3-4 times but yea im sure you get the idea.i dont want to spend any money until i get my topend done then i will try get my suspention done for me..

[p.dath]

I'm a road rider myself, so don't have experience with your kind of bike, but that doesn't sound right to me.

[gspiggs]

sounds like steering head bearings shouldnt be too hard or expensive to replace

[BoristheBiter]

What he said.

Also are you pulling back on the bars or using the engine to lift the front out of the whoops?

And you didn't say what terrain you are riding.

[Hitcher]

I thought this was going to be another "waving" thread.

[noobi]

More than likely the springs are too light, and the shock is probably not set up as well as it could be. PDS KTMs are really picky about sag and spring set up. Even so, the pre 07 chassis favoured quick turning over high speed stability, so you may just have to live with the shake.

You can have the suspension resprung/revalved or both to suit your riding ability, which is not cheap. Or you can try playing with what you have and try to find a set up which minimised head shake.

A steering damper is another option, but they are more of a band aid for ill set up suspension, and they aren't cheap either.

Sorry to be such a sour puss, but I don't think you'll find a straight forward and simple solution to head shake at high speed.

[KTM200/stevo0987]

ok haha sorry, the terrain i ride in mostly is our farm witch i have a 70ft jump with almost a flatlanding it bottomed out the back 3 times and the front hardly moved and i ride on mx tracks alot and a few trailrides a month i would say, i can live with it but its just annoying and i cant ride my fastest because of it,

[KTM200/stevo0987]

What he said.

Also are you pulling back on the bars or using the engine to lift the front out of the whoops?

And you didn't say what terrain you are riding.

I tried doing that on the last 15 laps of the track and it seemed to get better but its still hanging around abit

[Ocean1]

Before you do anything set the front and rear sag to the book. Then spend some time getting the damping set up at least close. THEN if it's a bit twitchy drop the rear preload 5mm. Try again. If you want it yet more stable lower the forks in the clamps 5mm. Try some more.

[nzspokes]

Real man would be doubling and tripling the woops. Just sayin.

[ktm84mxc]

Ahhhh the dreaded KTM head shake myth or fact ?
It all comes down to set up the sag should be 95mm static sag 25mm, at 55kg your probably to light for the standard springs which are the norm for 65-70kg.
How do you have the bars set up ? if to far back it'll handle like a chopper, check the wheel bearings and steering head ones also. Try lowering the forks in the clamps just don't go above the caps.
Fit a new front tire a good one MS3,MT32,Geomax51 etc.
It's not a MX bike it's designed to cut a path through a forest so suspension is set up for that.

[KTM200/stevo0987]

Hmmmm so my bikes had a few cartwheel lessons around the paddock (my brother crashed it and was in hospital for a week)... since then i decided to start thinking,ok so first thing i did was drop the forks in the clamps as much as i could (so they were level)... i think im gonna need a stiffer rear spring, the back sits real high when no one is on the bike and i dont make much of a difference the compression is turned nearly all the way in (6 clicks back) mostly because its really soft and ive tried keeping my body weight on the back of the bike but still happens. its worse when i stand up when i sit down i dont get much but my back gets a beating... we were thinking about getting new triple clamps to change the rake and stuff... Any one know about suspension that could help? PLEASE!!!!! need it sorted before woodhill 2 man starts ;)

[KTM200/stevo0987]

Oh and if you watch this vid of me at the dome valley mx last week you will see alot of headshake!!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piv8ddJ9y3U

[BoristheBiter]

Oh and if you watch this vid of me at the dome valley mx last week you will see alot of headshake!!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piv8ddJ9y3U

The only real head shake i noticed was what the camera was mounted to.
How loose are the head bearings? if you have the bike on a stand (not the side one ) how free is the front end? like if you spin the bars does it hit the stops and bounce back or does it stop dead?

And it might have been the angle of the camera and shadow but it looked like your elbows are down.

I do just think the suspension is FUBAR. strip it, clean it and reset it. you might even find something else is wrong when you do.

Unless you really know what you are doing I would leave the position of the forks, rake angle etc to the experts.

[KTM200/stevo0987]

The only real head shake i noticed was what the camera was mounted to.
How loose are the head bearings? if you have the bike on a stand (not the side one ) how free is the front end? like if you spin the bars does it hit the stops and bounce back or does it stop dead?

And it might have been the angle of the camera and shadow but it looked like your elbows are down.

I do just think the suspension is FUBAR. strip it, clean it and reset it. you might even find something else is wrong when you do.

Unless you really know what you are doing I would leave the position of the forks, rake angle etc to the experts.

Thanks man i seen to ride in a "casual" position. When i spin the bars it hits the stop and bounces back...

[BoristheBiter]

Thanks man i seen to ride in a "casual" position. When i spin the bars it hits the stop and bounces back...

To me that is too loose. It should be free to move but should not that loose (this is why people go out and buy steering dampers).

try tightening the head stock up so that is just free enough to move but when you stop pushing on it it stops , not dead but quick enough.
I think the top steering head screw should be about 12Nm but i know mine is tighter than that.
just remember to loosen the top triple clamp while you are doing this.

[KTM200/stevo0987]

To me that is too loose. It should be free to move but should not that loose (this is why people go out and buy steering dampers).

try tightening the head stock up so that is just free enough to move but when you stop pushing on it it stops , not dead but quick enough.
I think the top steering head screw should be about 12Nm but i know mine is tighter than that.
just remember to loosen the top triple clamp while you are doing this.

Ya ok man ill try it :) would the compression be a factor on the front i know now that the forks feel harsh but are soft..

[BoristheBiter]

Ya ok man ill try it :) would the compression be a factor on the front i know now that the forks feel harsh but are soft..

When was the last time they were stripped/overhauled/had the oil change? if you are jumping they will get a harder workout.
Also see if both are working together as my old XR had a blockage in one rebound value so even though it felt like both worked correctly one was coming up faster.

If you have the manual reset all to factory settings (write down the old settings).

when you say harsh do you mean they rebound too fast?

[KTM200/stevo0987]

When was the last time they were stripped/overhauled/had the oil change? if you are jumping they will get a harder workout.
Also see if both are working together as my old XR had a blockage in one rebound value so even though it felt like both worked correctly one was coming up faster.

If you have the manual reset all to factory settings (write down the old settings).

when you say harsh do you mean they rebound too fast?

I dont really know what the rebound does... hehe i dont know much/anything about suspension.... we are trying to get one of the dude from kaiwaka suzuki to help us out with setting the sag and stuff like that....So you have a 350? id love one of those my dream bike is the 2013 xcf350 ;)

[BoristheBiter]

I dont really know what the rebound does... hehe i dont know much/anything about suspension.... we are trying to get one of the dude from kaiwaka suzuki to help us out with setting the sag and stuff like that....So you have a 350? id love one of those my dream bike is the 2013 xcf350 ;)

Compression The rate at which the suspension moves downwards.
Rebound The rate at which the suspension moves upwards.
Suspension Travel Travel is the distance moved up and down of the suspension.
Fork Height The amount that the fork is exposed above the top yoke.
Ride Height The distance between the rear axle and tailpiece.
Preload The amount of tension on the springs.
Sag Suspension movement when the bikes weight is lifted off of the suspension.
Loaded Sag The amount of suspension used with the rider sitting on the bike.

If you don't understand get someone to help you as you can really fuck it up.
look up with google and youtube as there is stacks of info.

Funny the 350xcf gets a better write up than the 450xcf, but if I could choose again i would have the 350excf sixdays, i'm old so the body doesn't like the jumps any more so i do more technical twisty stuff.

[KTM200/stevo0987]

Yea ive always thought 450s are to much... ive always thought that the 350 would be wonderful because of the weight and the power isnt loose like some 450s are... oh and i dont know if the forks/shock have had any work at all.. i got the bike with 93 hours from new a few months ago and now its got around 129hrs... i ride it everyday after school hahaha i love the bike its just the headshake that is the bad thing but it will get sorted over time... and the motor hasnt been opened yet but will in another 20 hours :)

[ktm84mxc]

Have known a leaking rear shock causing a vicious head shake , most notable coming down from speed. only real test is pull it out and give it a shake test if you hear sloshing time for rebuild.

[BoristheBiter]

Yea ive always thought 450s are to much... ive always thought that the 350 would be wonderful because of the weight and the power isnt loose like some 450s are... oh and i dont know if the forks/shock have had any work at all.. i got the bike with 93 hours from new a few months ago and now its got around 129hrs... i ride it everyday after school hahaha i love the bike its just the headshake that is the bad thing but it will get sorted over time... and the motor hasnt been opened yet but will in another 20 hours :)

Buy the sounds of it you are about to get a crash course in bike maintenance.

[KTM200/stevo0987]

Buy the sounds of it you are about to get a crash course in bike maintenance.

Yeap itl be a big spend in 20 hrs i can tell u now lol

[KTM200/stevo0987]

Yeap itl be a big spend in 20 hrs i can tell u now lol

Well so i just took it for a ride and before i rode it i turned the compression nearly all the way back lol and guess what no headshake... but wayyyyyy to soft so ill have to get the sag and stuff set and bla bla bla :) was riding so much faster knowing i wasnt going to be throwen off!!

[BoristheBiter]

Well so i just took it for a ride and before i rode it i turned the compression nearly all the way back lol and guess what no headshake... but wayyyyyy to soft so ill have to get the sag and stuff set and bla bla bla :) was riding so much faster knowing i wasnt going to be throwen off!!

Excellent, you are now on the road of trial and error.
Now buy yourself a book and write down the settings, where you rode, had it felt (pros and cons) so you will know what works and what doesn't.

Well done.

[KTM200/stevo0987]

Excellent, you are now on the road of trial and error.
Now buy yourself a book and write down the settings, where you rode, had it felt (pros and cons) so you will know what works and what doesn't.

Well done.

Yes i will do that... hehe i think it made the rear end sit lower when im on the bike witch is what i wanted it to do :)

[Jay GTI]

You may be onto something with that change. I know KTMs have a long history of headshake, mainly from poorly setup suspension and the PDS rear is notoriously sensitive to wrong settings. My bike has been reported to have headshake issues (have spoken to one guy who sold his after 3 months because he couldn't dial it out), the fix the racers used was a lowering link in the rear. I get a "free" lowering link by being too fat for the stock rear spring, so even at max preload the bike sits lower at the back than it should with me on it. Never had a hint of headshake. My mate has also had a complete suspension rebuild and set-up on his 07 250SXF, that has some mod done to the rear PDS shock to drop the rear and thus increase the rake angle, he reckons the front end now goes exactly where he wants, no hint of shakey shakey.

[KTM200/stevo0987]

You may be onto something with that change. I know KTMs have a long history of headshake, mainly from poorly setup suspension and the PDS rear is notoriously sensitive to wrong settings. My bike has been reported to have headshake issues (have spoken to one guy who sold his after 3 months because he couldn't dial it out), the fix the racers used was a lowering link in the rear. I get a "free" lowering link by being too fat for the stock rear spring, so even at max preload the bike sits lower at the back than it should with me on it. Never had a hint of headshake. My mate has also had a complete suspension rebuild and set-up on his 07 250SXF, that has some mod done to the rear PDS shock to drop the rear and thus increase the rake angle, he reckons the front end now goes exactly where he wants, no hint of shakey shakey.

I still get headshake but no where near as bad and i will never sell my 200 because of it...its a great bike even though its not the newest out there with people my age on brand spanking new bikes.. i worked my ass off for my bike and its not going to be ruined by headshake ;) hmm i wouldnt mind one of those 350s