Something's taken a shit and it sounds expensive

[Akzle]

yup. one of those.

bike started out not liking 5k RPM. i thought it was sick, parked it up last month, got into it today: syncd carbs and set valve clearances.

don't have 3/4" (which gook MF's idea was that?, the civilised world uses 13/16 or 5/8, since the fucken 60s assholes) wrench so haven't pulled or replaced plugs (now higher on my to-do list) and because i can't get them out yet, i cant tell you what they look like, or do a compression test.

so i took it for a skid to the corner shop (40kms) to make sure it go'd good. it dunnt. now it lacks power up to 4-5k, kindof feel like blown head gasket.

main Q: will shitty ignition cause this symptom? (do i need to start mentally preparing for a blown head gasket or rings?)

secondary Q: how fussy should i have been in doing valves. all of them spec'd, but might be difference of upto a thou, thou and a half, between any cylinders, should i have done em all to same numbers? intake is 4-6 thou, ex 7-9 thou.

tertiary Q: any one want a GSX750 for five bucks and a bag of chips?
(and a running bike)

[scumdog]

OK, now that you're off my ignore list...

Did this happen suddenly or has the rev-range slowly getting lower and lower fpr longer than you have mentioned??

And if your valves are set within factory specs you should be OK there - whe did you last check them?

Anything is possible but how is your fuel flow? - it would be what I would first check.

Then a comp. check.

But your symptoms are not specific enough to get you pointed in the right direction.

[jellywrestler]

Then a comp. check.

one needs to be able to take the plugs out for this...

[scumdog]

one needs to be able to take the plugs out for this...

Time he got the gorse out of his pocket and bought a plug socket, hell, how has he been doing it up 'til now??:eek5:

[Katman]

Take the tops of the carbs and check the diaphragms for splits.

[Akzle]

Did this happen suddenly or has the rev-range slowly getting lower and lower fpr longer than you have mentioned??

And if your valves are set within factory specs you should be OK there - whe did you last check them?

Anything is possible but how is your fuel flow? - it would be what I would first check.

Then a comp. check.

1 - <200km
2- yesterday, :facepalm:
3- fuel tap is fuckered, which is something i forgot to mentions, runs on res but not prime or ON
last time i checked (when it first started to hit at 5k - last month) there was fuel a plenty in the bowls. should probably check now. it never stalls or cuts out and will idle for days, so i dont think that is the problemo
just doesn't want to give me moar HPees.


Take the tops of the carbs and check the diaphragms for splits.
i should have when i had em off yesterday. do they go suddenly? does a vacuum leak cause shit like this?

as an aside, it was worse when the engine was warm, ie it was doing the 5k thing on the way to the shops, and started lacking big time about 10km from home, the last 4 was painful, over revving and clutch slipping (intentional) etc.

[98tls]

What about a bad coil,gets worse when hot.

[Akzle]

What about a bad coil,gets worse when hot.

haven't tested. (how would i? resistance?) plus - there's two coils (four cyls) how likely is having two shit at once?

will wait for payday and new-plugs it (plus buy a f*king 3/4" wrench ><)

[scumdog]

Still sounds like a lack of fuel situation to me Mr A.

I await the outcome - possibly with surprise!:gob:

[98tls]

haven't tested. (how would i? resistance?) plus - there's two coils (four cyls) how likely is having two shit at once?

will wait for payday and new-plugs it (plus buy a f*king 3/4" wrench ><)

Would only need 1 to be bad,if its as T reckons a fuel problem then you should be able to tell by looking at the plugs you take out ie rich or lean,plug leads are worth inspection to.

[kiwi cowboy]

haven't tested. (how would i? resistance?) plus - there's two coils (four cyls) how likely is having two shit at once?

will wait for payday and new-plugs it (plus buy a f*king 3/4" wrench ><)

You could also check your air filter.
If its realy gumed up it may be struggling for air at revs. (just a thought).

[ktm84mxc]

I'd be checking for rust in the tank blocking the fuel tap/filter , another cause can be the idle adjusters on the CV carbs.

[ducatilover]

I'm assuming you cleaned the carbs and there are no air leaks?
Katman's suggestion is good (as expected, he fondles bike apparently)
Is the carb bowl vent clear and routed correctly?
Are the intake rubbers seated correctly
Is the airbox sealed well?
What kind of chips do you want bro?

[Laava]

Coils on my gixxer were fucked. They tested good on a coil testing machine but when you test for continuity between both plug ends ( per coil) it had nada. This is when the windings have actually started to burn out but arcing between burnt ends inside the coil.
So do the continuity test, it is easy and quick.

[unstuck]

One of the pissed off natives has jammed a spud up your pipe.:Punk:

[Akzle]

You could also check your air filter.
If its realy gumed up it may be struggling for air at revs. (just a thought).
it's now struggling even <5k.
looked at the air filter, but seems a bitch to get out. might take up my wrecking bar.
got plug wrench today (7$ at supercheap - wtf china?!), will get into it in a few bourbons.


I'd be checking for rust in the tank blocking the fuel tap/filter , another cause can be the idle adjusters on the CV carbs.
air pilots are set to fuctory (/pre-fuct position)
it holds idle.
i got some fuel from caltex in auckland (is when this shit started) thought about breaking apart the fuel tap but really really don't want to again (new one 120$), odd, i could blow air through on both res and ON, but fuel wont come down when it's on ON. IDGAF about prime.

I'm assuming you cleaned the carbs and there are no air leaks?
Katman's suggestion is good (as expected, he fondles bike apparently)
Is the carb bowl vent clear and routed correctly?
Are the intake rubbers seated correctly
Is the airbox sealed well?
What kind of chips do you want bro?
1- yes i cleaned the carbs (ish) - blew out all passages, air leaks, not so sure. vents, huh? blew air through everything. was fairly rough n ready job as i didn't really expect there to be anything wrong with them (and i was doing it on the back of my ute)
2-boots airbox-carbs-block all look good and i screwed the fuck out of the hose clamps on em, spose i should try squirting some CRC around eh.
3- airbox is sealed as well as it's ever been
4- i like the old tomato munchos, i think they still sell them under a different name. and some kind of awesome bike, like a GNSX750 =)


One of the pissed off natives has jammed a spud up your pipe.:Punk:
i'm the most native cunt 'round here. and i'm pretty fucken white. (plus they's trumpets - it'd have to be a fair small potato, and i'd'a blasted it out by now.)


// another think: exhaust gaskets?

[ducatilover]

1- yes i cleaned the carbs (ish) - blew out all passages, air leaks, not so sure. vents, huh? blew air through everything. was fairly rough n ready job as i didn't really expect there to be anything wrong with them (and i was doing it on the back of my ute)
2-boots airbox-carbs-block all look good and i screwed the fuck out of the hose clamps on em, spose i should try squirting some CRC around eh.
3- airbox is sealed as well as it's ever been
4- i like the old tomato munchos, i think they still sell them under a different name. and some kind of awesome bike, like a GNSX750 =)


Hit it with a hammer mate
lol keep the fuck away from my GN, it's far cooler than you GSXteapot
I'll give you two bags o' crisps?

[Coolz]

Hunted around this arvo and found my 3/4 plug socket but I see you've got it sorted. There is a second hand tool shop in town opposite Placemakers. They buy and sell tools so you can often barter, swap tools.

I've got a compression gauge if you need one.

[Akzle]

Hunted around this arvo and found my 3/4 plug socket but I see you've got it sorted. There is a second hand tool shop in town opposite Placemakers. They buy and sell tools so you can often barter, swap tools.

I've got a compression gauge if you need one.

got a compression gauge. don't know if the stick is long enough to poke my holes (i have a bad feeling it isn't), but we'll find out. elsewise have a bin full of old airline fittings so i can probably sort something out. elsewise i'll contact you.
ta, tho.

@'cati-man - you're saying your mighty GN is only worth one bag of chips?! this is looking like chips + bike + cash my way.... (i'll throw in a hammer, too.)

[ducatilover]

got a compression gauge. don't know if the stick is long enough to poke my holes (i have a bad feeling it isn't), but we'll find out. elsewise have a bin full of old airline fittings so i can probably sort something out. elsewise i'll contact you.
ta, tho.

@'cati-man - you're saying your mighty GN is only worth one bag of chips?! this is looking like chips + bike + cash my way.... (i'll throw in a hammer, too.)
I'll throw a fuckin hammer... :devil2:

You can make yer own comp tester adapter by bashing the porcelain out the plug and fitting an airline fitting (lots of fitting, epilepsy?) :headbang:
Doug's hori tip for the day!

[fatboyzed]

Just A Guess
Maybe a delaminated fuel line IE the inner core has parted company from the outer core when it gets warm and you open the throttle it sucks the inner flat??
Had this problem with a power steer hose once.

[scumdog]

Jeeze Axzle, for a know-all cunt yer really draggin' the chain when it comes to getting your own problems sorted!!:bleh::devil2:

[awayatc]

Must be one of those suzuki Karma's maybe ..?

[FJRider]

Just A Guess
Maybe a delaminated fuel line IE the inner core has parted company from the outer core when it gets warm and you open the throttle it sucks the inner flat??
Had this problem with a power steer hose once.

He said the fuel tap is fucked. Only lets fuel flow on prime. May be just blocked ... either in the tap or the filter in the tank blocked.
As I understand ... the only sucking on that bikes fuel system .... is on the vacuum line .... as fuel is gravity fed.
As he didn't open up the airbox "because it looks like a bitch to get into" .. I'm guessing nobody else has for a while either. Airbox "sealed as good as its ever been" means it hasn't been opened much ... if at all. Even "sealed" ... it should let air in. No air getting in and the engine won't run. Some air getting in ... the engine will run .. but not rev. (which he has already mentioned.)
A regular run on a gravel road would account for a dirty air filter. And in summer would get dirty fast.

Filters and plugs are usually the first step for NOOB bikers ... unless you don't have the tools (or inclination) THEN ... you do the tricky stuff you DO have the tools for. (and then wonder why you didn't fix the problem)

[Captain_Salty]

Re only getting fuel on reserve, are you sure you have On and Reserve lines connected right on the fuel tap? I had the same problem after mixing them up :rolleyes: Don't know if that would have any affect on the power though

[FJRider]

Re only getting fuel on reserve, are you sure you have On and Reserve lines connected right on the fuel tap? I had the same problem after mixing them up :rolleyes: Don't know if that would have any affect on the power though

I had similar issues ... but the vacuum line was in the wrong place. Fuel/vacuum lines are usually different sizes.

[Akzle]

I'll throw a fuckin hammer... :devil2:

You can make yer own comp tester adapter by bashing the porcelain out the plug and fitting an airline fitting (lots of fitting, epilepsy?) :headbang:
Doug's hori tip for the day!

yesyes. (i did try it once for my little car (now dead) but didn't have the right size punch at the time, and not keen on fucking my twisties by trying to drill porcelain) the comp tester i have i a rubber tip push n hold jobby.


Just A Guess
Maybe a delaminated fuel line IE the inner core has parted company from the outer core when it gets warm and you open the throttle it sucks the inner flat??
Had this problem with a power steer hose once.
cheers for the input. i don't THINK so, but will check.


Re only getting fuel on reserve, are you sure you have On and Reserve lines connected right on the fuel tap? I had the same problem after mixing them up :rolleyes: Don't know if that would have any affect on the power though

there is only one pipe for ON/res, the other pipe is the prime which goes to #3 in front of the carb. i don't know what fucked my fuel tap. i'm blaming caltex. for now: fuel is getting through, which is the main thing


//updatey: so pulled the plugs - they don't look too bad (will post pics later for plug wizard to tell me i'm a fucking idiot) gaps looked big, but i didn't measure. dry brown bit of black type fouling.
they will be replaced next week anyway.
wondering, though, if i should run a hotter plug... :scratch:

bad feeling the head's coming off. who's good for gaskets?

[ducatilover]

I'd hazard a guess and say your rubber push in jobbie isn't long enough...

Err, the tester, that is.

[Akzle]

weeeeeeeeeel. we have problems.
1) compression gauge fits cyls 1&4, 2&3 are too well hidden and i've been rained off for now. will get a longer probe and confirm but round one looks like this:
#4: ~130lbs
#1: ~110lbs
#2,3: not enough, by the thumb of it.

didn't get to throw oil down 1 either, so can't tell whether head or rings. probably both.

SME bike my best bet?

2)plugs:
asides from being filthy:

-edit- gaps all ~.75, which seems right enough...

[Katman]

If you've taken the compression readings on a cold motor you can't really read much into those figures.

[ducatilover]

Nice plugs...
Katman is right (this is becoming an annoying pattern)

[Akzle]

If you've taken the compression readings on a cold motor you can't really read much into those figures.

there are two options: one - it has compressions; two - it does not has compressions. while i accept that it's normal to do it on a warm engine, if it doesn't has compressions on a cold one, it won't get them by being warm eh...

(plus using thumb to check compression on a warm engine is burny)

[unstuck]

Is that crud around the porcelaine on the plugs or blowby?

[FJRider]

Nice plugs...
Katman is right (this is becoming an annoying pattern)

There is medication that can help you with that (the greater the % of Alcohol the better it works). It wont stop him being right ... its just that you wont care as much.

[Katman]

there are two options: one - it has compressions; two - it does not has compressions. while i accept that it's normal to do it on a warm engine, if it doesn't has compressions on a cold one, it won't get them by being warm eh...


No kidding Einstein.

[carburator]

If you've taken the compression readings on a cold motor you can't really read much into those figures.

better question did he do it at WOT ( wide open throttle )
Those plugs are shot.. for readings fit a new set, try a couple of hard pulls shut the motor off then check.
idle tests are a waste of time..

[SNF]

I laughed when I saw your title, reminded me of mine. The problems are not funny, take a glance was going to see if my latest fix was the one. Can't now.....
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/155410-Something-has-taken-a-giant-shit-and-it-sounds-expensive

[Akzle]

I laughed when I saw your title, reminded me of mine. The problems are not funny,
wtf you talking about? the problems are hilarious.

Is that crud around the porcelaine on the plugs or blowby?
crud. like melted boot type crud. and road crud. it's a shit design, really, to hide the plugs in there. (OHC, right?)

[Akzle]

nice shiney new set of plugs, gapped right, put in, and.... :brick: no spark.

weheheheheheeeeelllllll. geniusus.
coil fucked looks like., here's how:

cap resistance values:
1: 9.76kR
2: 41.6kR
3: 10.28kR
4: 10.13kR

coil R values:
Spec: Primary 2-4R; Secondary 30-40kR

1,4 Primary: 4R
Secondary 35.6R
=OK
2,3 Primary 4R
Secondary 65kR, 15.98kR without caps, and 16.23R without HTs (just the coil, like)
=Fucked

Signal generator:
spec 135-200R
measured: 164R; 162R

so, from this, i can fairly safely conclude the coil is fucked. who sells em? -edit- :facepalm:
also, can anyone tell me, from that, why #2 cyl has raped so much?
also, can anyone tell me why one coil not sparking causes the other one not to, either?

:niceone: guys

[Akzle]

needs either x1 plug book, 10kR. or set of leads.

guesses?/ anyone got one in a box of shit under the bench?

[Akzle]

needs either x1 plug book, 10kR. or set of leads.

guesses?/ anyone got one in a box of shit under the bench?

[ducatilover]

I have one without plug caps somewhere, I'll measure the resistance tomorrow.
I might actually have four. Better check eh?

[Akzle]

I have one without plug caps somewhere, I'll measure the resistance tomorrow.
I might actually have four. Better check eh?

boots*

figuire i just need to replace the 47R cap with a spec one =9/10R then it all measures to spec...

[ducatilover]

I haven't got any spare boots that'll get up inside your bitch sorry, only got short ones. Fuck knows what I did with my spare ZZR coils

[Akzle]

*r0ar !!!1!
. .