Piss poor online fitment guides

[Hitcher]

Tyre manufacturers' online fitment guides range from the very useful to the woeful.

Mrs H has recently changed tyres on her Suzuki Bandit GSF650K6 -- a model that Mr Suzuki sold tens of thousands of around the world.

According to Avon, this model motorcycle doesn't exist. A couple of other sites I've explored haven't updated their Suzuki model range since 2001.

The selected new rubber is Michelin Pilot Road 3s, 120/70 17" front and 160/60 17" rear. My reason for doing the fitment guide exploration is to see what operating pressures Mr Michelin recommends. It transpires that Mr Michelin cares not a jot what pressure should be used. Inflation optional. That aspect of tyre use and performance is not mentioned at all anywhere on the official Michelin fitment site -- for any choice of tyre and motorcycle.

As well as not taking much of an interest in the range of motorcycle models available, Mr Avon also has no interest in tyre pressures.

Same for Mr Dunlop. A long obsolete model range for Suzuki (Dunlop has never heard of a Boulevard nor a GSF650 Bandit) and no mention of tyre pressures.

Continental seem to care about bike models and fitment pressures. So too Metzeler/Pirelli (once you finally club to death the intrusive promo video Mr Metzeler demands you must watch).

All of the manufacturers who care to share recommend 36 front and 42 rear (what a lovely rhyming couplet). I am presuming that these pressures will work just fine for the Pilot Road 3, but Mr Michelin should really care enough to tell me this himself.

[Blackbird]

Recommended pressures are a bit of a minefield anyway Brett. Triumph recommend 42 psi rear and 38 psi front for the Triple. That might be alright for Merican lard arses in full touring mode but not for a lighter person who rides solo. The Triple weighs 169 kg dry and I weigh 80 kg. I run 38 rear "B" spec PR3 and 34-35 front. I'd imagine that Mrs H's wouldn't be too far from that.

[Hitcher]

My plan was to start her at 36/40 and experiment from there. That was the optimum pressure her previous several sets of Avon Storms and Storm 2 Ultras seemed to work best at.

[Hitcher]

Also remembering all of the fuss and bother KoroJ had with haemorrhaging Storm 2 Ultras on his ST1300, Mr Avon's response seemed to be that if the bike wasn't listed in their official fitment guide, then one fitted at one's own risk. If that's true, then Avon only manufactures tyres for a quite limited range of bikes.

[koba]

I've never understood the obsession that many have with exact tyre pressures.
I run the rear tyre on my VFR from 32 to 15 PSI, depending on how long it was since I last pumped it up.
It gets 'sqidgy' below 15psi and 'skatey' above 32 but I don't notice any difference between those numbers.
I've always been guided by my own experiences in such matters.

[Hitcher]

I've never understood the obsession that many have with exact tyre pressures.

Well, I'm a bit funny about tyres. I like them to handle optimally (particularly for predictable cornering and braking) and to wear well. Our pressures are checked prior to departure every time we go out. I allow a plus or minus 1 psi variation depending on ambient temperature. We experiment with our tyre pressures, using the manufacturer's recommendations as a guide. After several dozen sets worn, I reckon that most manufacturers generally seem to get their recommendations about right.

Other people may choose to be a bit more liberal, indeed cavalier. It's their money and their wellbeing that's at risk, so I'm comfortable for them to do what they may.

[Gremlin]

Often tyre manufacturers will refer you to the motorcycle manufacturer and use their recommended pressures.

For the most part, I'll run something similar to that, but will change as required, to suit my use. Most important thing in my opinion is checking the max PSI rating for the tyre and making sure I don't exceed that. Different tyres will want different pressures, different riding styles will also prefer different pressures, you just have to find what suits you.

Most common thing is a tyre that is very stiff will want less pressure and a softer tyre needs more pressure, as a general rule for road riding.

[Subike]

I've never understood the obsession that many have with exact tyre pressures.
I run the rear tyre on my VFR from 32 to 15 PSI, depending on how long it was since I last pumped it up.
It gets 'sqidgy' below 15psi and 'skatey' above 32 but I don't notice any difference between those numbers.
I've always been guided by my own experiences in such matters.

Fwark!!!!!

[Marmoot]

According to Avon, this model motorcycle doesn't exist. A couple of other sites I've explored haven't updated their Suzuki model range since 2001.

Have you tried calling up your local Avon lady?

[koba]

Other people may choose to be a bit more liberal, indeed cavalier.

I think we need a cavalier smiley.

[koba]

Fwark!!!!!

Fwark!!!!! what?

[koba]

OK, to be fair I do start to feel a change when it drops to around 18 psi but it only becomes bad enough to do something about at around 15.

[scumdog]

Fwark!!!!!

And Fwark again!:eek5:

[speeding_ant]

Honda recommends 42 rear, 26 front for the Hornet. I find it feels best for me between 40-41 for the rear, 34-35 for the front. Anything less and it doesn't tip in well enough, anymore and it skates around a bit.

I'm running shinkos though. :rolleyes: Shows it does pay to follow closely to their recommended pressures though.

[Subike]

Honda recommends 42 rear, 26 front for the Hornet. I find it feels best for me between 40-41 for the rear, 34-35 for the front. Anything less and it doesn't tip in well enough, anymore and it skates around a bit.

I'm running shinkos though. :rolleyes: Shows it does pay to follow closely to their recommended pressures though.

I ran shinkos on my XS11, found that 38/32 gave me the best "feel". took a decent ride, and a few service station stops to work it out.
On my Keeway, I run 32/28 factory tires. any less or more in the front becomes very noticeable on open road corners. 2Lb difference changes the little bike from being fun to "fuck wheres a service station"

[nodrog]

You should try riding a 1000cc sportsbike with the recomended 42psi in the rear tyre. All its good for is for drawing 190 wide black lines everywhere.

[bungbung]

I think we need a cavalier smiley.

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[Morcs]

I Cringe when i hear people asking what pressure to run.

Should know that all modern radials in common sizes should be at say around 36psi - then the variation +/- comes in: Depends on the tyre, type of riding, type of load (are you a fat fecker) etc..

then chuck in personal preference as how you like it to feel.

[Blackbird]

I Cringe when i hear people asking what pressure to run.

Should know that all modern radials in common sizes should be at say around 36psi - then the variation +/- comes in: Depends on the tyre, type of riding, type of load (are you a fat fecker) etc..

then chuck in personal preference as how you like it to feel.

Well said!! :clap:

[aderino4]

I ran front 36 and Rear 0 a couple of times and the amount of grip is phenomenal; although the tyre wear is a lot quicker than normal.

[HenryDorsetCase]

You should try riding a 1000cc sportsbike with the recomended 42psi in the rear tyre. All its good for is for drawing 190 wide black lines everywhere.

pics are not loading for me.

[HenryDorsetCase]

On my Street Trupple R the recommended pressures are 36F and 42R, but I am fairly light so I run 32 or 34F and 38 or 40R. depending on how hot the day is.

I havent run it on a trackday yet but I anticipate that would be something like 30F 28R to start with then measure the hot temps after I finish a session.

By the way I always do them before I leave on a ride, with tyres cold (or as cold as they will get that day) and I use a hopefully accurate gauge called an Accu-Gauge. I dont own a compressor I use my bicycle track pump if I need to add air. 10pumps is about 1psi up.

[trumpy]

There has been a general "agreement" among tyre manufacturers in place for a while now to standardise pressures at 36/42. I suspect that this may be more about being part of protecting their arses in certain countries than about agreed performance parameters.
I have PR3's on my Speed Four and I started with the pressures in the handbook at 34/38 initially and then played with them up and down from there. In the end I settled on Triumph's pressures or 33/36 depending on the season. Good performance and comfort (36/42 was a bit hard on the kidneys on some of our bumpier roads) and on average for the PR2's and PR3"s about 15,000kms to 17,000kms (yes I'm a Nana rider....)

[Coldrider]

I run 42psi cold in the rear when i am doing a 600 to 1000k rideday, its is worth a few ks at the end of the tyre life, having said that the honda can leave black marks anyway, but is made up by the front tyre being lifted of the road. Manufacturers recommended pressures are most likely for the OEM spec tyres anyway, not the real McCoy.

[p.dath]

I don't see how a tyre manufacturer could recommend a tyre pressure. That's controlled more by the weight, load and expected application being placed onto the tyre - which only the bike manufacturer could know.

[Kickaha]

I don't see how a tyre manufacturer could recommend a tyre pressure. That's controlled more by the weight, load and expected application being placed onto the tyre - which only the bike manufacturer could know.

The only thing they normally put on the sidewall is a maximum pressure for the maximum load

[bogan]

I don't see how a tyre manufacturer could recommend a tyre pressure. That's controlled more by the weight, load and expected application being placed onto the tyre - which only the bike manufacturer could know.

Agree with the first bit, however I would say its something only the rider could know, but that both the bike and tyre manufacturer could guess at. Don't really see what the big deal is about some not providing that info, I think Hitcher should just be happy that some manufacturers do take the time to provide that information, and I doubt it would take much to find another bike on the list with similar power and weight to get a ballpark figure from anyway. Next thing you know he'll be complaining that they don't do the actual tyre fitting online too :whistle:

I run mine at 32 front and rear. Will get (if I haven't already) 10,000km+ out of the sport demons on there now. Probably don't check them as often as I should, so I shall now consider myself reminded.

[caspernz]

Don't feel special Hitch, I had the same drama when I first tried to get info from Mr Michelin when I started fitting Michelin rubber to my current toy. They basically said to stick with the bike manufacturers' recommended pressures. :brick:

Here's what I found for my GSX750F fitted with Michelin Pilot Road 3. Suzuki says 33psi front and 36 psi rear. Not a bad place to start but I found the front feeling on the soft side. Onto my second set of PR3s and I've worked out +2 for the front and +1 for the rear gives good wear and handling, wet or dry. BUT, I doubt your wife weighs as much as me....so it's down to personal choice, which is what you knew anyway me thinks? :2thumbsup

[TOTO]

36/40 is what we put. you are bang on the money.

[Hitcher]

which only the bike manufacturer could know.

And given that OEM rubber isn't generally available off the shelf, then fat lot of use that information is.

[george formby]

My plan was to start her at 36/40 and experiment from there. That was the optimum pressure her previous several sets of Avon Storms and Storm 2 Ultras seemed to work best at.

Where you getting these from? I've had a browse on the web to no avail & they are the tire du jour for TDM's at the mo, rated top of the heap for mileage, out right grip & wet grip. Good price in the UK too, not expecting that so far away from the factory, though.
I have been told that at the ideal pressure a tire will not fluctuate much more than 2 psi between hot & cold. I use that as my guide line now. You want to try finding info for dual porpoise tires......

[SMOKEU]

Is there any reason why the back tyre should have a higher pressure than the front? Does that apply to all different types of bikes?

[Hitcher]

Is there any reason why the back tyre should have a higher pressure than the front? Does that apply to all different types of bikes?

Rear tyres are usually larger and carry greater weight than does the front. Some bikes have equal pressures front and rear. I have yet to hear of one where the manufacturer recommends higher front pressure than rear.

[gammaguy]

Also remembering all of the fuss and bother KoroJ had with haemorrhaging Storm 2 Ultras on his ST1300, Mr Avon's response seemed to be that if the bike wasn't listed in their official fitment guide, then one fitted at one's own risk. If that's true, then Avon only manufactures tyres for a quite limited range of bikes.

the ST1300 are very hard on tyres< I serviced a bunch of them for a rental Co not that long ago...

We ended up using ONLY the Metzeler marathon steel belted radials,nothing else could handle the weight and power of MR Lard ass Honda 1300

[Hitcher]

We ended up using ONLY the Metzeler marathon steel belted radials,nothing else could handle the weight and power of MR Lard ass Honda 1300

Having once owned an ST1300, I can state that the Avon Storm suited it fabulously. Regrettably the Storm 2 Ultra wasn't superior to the model tyre it replaced. I suspect that some of the other stiffer carcass construction tyres, like the Conti Road Attack 2 GT could work quite well on the ST.

[actungbaby]

but Mr Michelin should really care enough to tell me this himself.[/QUOTE]

Maybe hes eating to many donuts hehe am looking more like him each year

And am not even french

[Banditbandit]

Also remembering all of the fuss and bother KoroJ had with haemorrhaging Storm 2 Ultras on his ST1300, Mr Avon's response seemed to be that if the bike wasn't listed in their official fitment guide, then one fitted at one's own risk. If that's true, then Avon only manufactures tyres for a quite limited range of bikes.

I just walked out and look at the recommendd tyre pressures on the swingarm of my GSF650 - it says 36/36 .. I did run Pilot Roads (the original, not 2s or 3s) at that (I currently run Conti Road Attacks at the manufacturers specifications of 38/42) ... and had no problems at with PRs 36/36. Have a play and see what she likes.


I've never understood the obsession that many have with exact tyre pressures.
I run the rear tyre on my VFR from 32 to 15 PSI, depending on how long it was since I last pumped it up.
It gets 'sqidgy' below 15psi and 'skatey' above 32 but I don't notice any difference between those numbers.
I've always been guided by my own experiences in such matters.


Fwark!!!!!


And Fwark again!:eek5:

Fwark is right ... Neither of my Bandits corners well at more than 4psi away from the recommendations - at five psi out the handling notciably changes .... I check my tyres every tank full ... I can't imagine trying to handle a bike at less than 20psi in tyres ... (I wonder if koba rides the VFR my GSF650 wasted a while ago ... the VFR couldn't handle the corners ..

[koba]

Fwark is right ... Neither of my Bandits corners well at more than 4psi away from the recommendations - at five psi out the handling notciably changes .... I check my tyres every tank full ... I can't imagine trying to handle a bike at less than 20psi in tyres ... (I wonder if koba rides the VFR my GSF650 wasted a while ago ... the VFR couldn't handle the corners ..

Haha! yeah, that must have been me.:facepalm: