Track/race prepping a Daytona 675?

[tail_end_charlie]

So after it got knocked over and scratched up while parked in Tokoroa, fixed like new thanks to insurance (though it took 3 months), then crashed by the mechanic test riding it the day I was suppose to pick it up (car pulled out in front of him) I'm finally due to get my Daytona back. Unfortunately, its dinged, scratched, the rear subframe is twisted, and it's been de-reged. Since I've lost quite a bit of money on it already, I figure I might as well loose all the rest that I have and turn it into a track/race bike.

So I'm here looking for some advice on the do's and don'ts with the 675. I know there are some of you out there who race the Daytona's and I'm wanting to know if there are any tips that you could forward to me on necessary things to do.

What its got now:
-Suspension tweaked by Robert Taylor, disarmed most of the hydralic bumpstop on the forks, and Ohlins rear spring. Set up with the track in mind.
-PCIII with a big bore exhaust (not sure of the manufacture, but I do know that it says "Not for Road Use")
-Dunlop GP211 f & r
-GB Racing frame sliders, front axle sliders, and engine case covers
-Stock gearing

What I'm planning on doing:
-Track fairing set
-Replace the rear subframe with a straight OEM (or should I go for a aftermarket race subframe?)
-Remove the Exhaust valve and associated shit


Right now I'm looing at a budget track build, just enough to get it onto the track and run reliably. I may look at racing it in Clubman's sometime soon just to get my feet wet type of thing, but I'm not looking to do any power mods on it any time soon (the PCIII and slip-on were on it when I got it).

Also, if anyone needs some road gear for a 06-08 Daytona 675 like lights, fairings (right side fairing in mint condition, left side not so much ;)) or anything else drop me a PM and we'll talk. Otherwise it'll get thrown up on Trademe in the near future for more than what I'll ask of KBer's.

[steveyb]

Next steps:
Replace engine with Yamaha R6 engine.
Replace chassis with Yamaha R6 chassis.
Replace tank and fairings with Yamaha R6 fairings from Just Fairings or Race Supplies.
That should sort it out.

[tail_end_charlie]

Next steps:
Replace engine with Yamaha R6 engine.
Replace chassis with Yamaha R6 chassis.
Replace tank and fairings with Yamaha R6 fairings from Just Fairings or Race Supplies.
That should sort it out.

Replace a triple with a 4 cly?!?!!? Why on earth would I want to do that? :nono:

I hear the rumor mill says that Yamaha has seen the light and is building a new R6 and R1...................with a triple............................hmmmmmmmmmmmm. :bleh:

[manxkiwi]

They're prone to popping the oil cooler due to high oil pressure. There's a kit to lower the gearing of the pump. Terry Galway has a seemingly good fix, though it requires a few dollars. Have an adapter made to replace the stock oil cooler that sends the oil out into a K9 GSXR1000 oil cooler (conventional type). This fits well and seems to lower the pressure just nicely.

I'm still running a stock set up with regard to the oil cooler. I've actually not seen any of the early models 'blow' though. I wonder if the first batches had better quality coolers?

If it goes, it manifests as oil being pumped into the header tank until it overflows down the side of your bike! It doesn't seem to harm the motor as long as you cut it as soon as you notice it.

I'm not trying to put you off or anything, I totally love mine. Just saying to be aware that this could possibly happen at some point.

Get some pics up when you're ready and we might see you at a track sometime. Cheers.

[tail_end_charlie]

They're prone to popping the oil cooler due to high oil pressure. There's a kit to lower the gearing of the pump. Terry Galway has a seemingly good fix, though it requires a few dollars. Have an adapter made to replace the stock oil cooler that sends the oil out into a K9 GSXR1000 oil cooler (conventional type). This fits well and seems to lower the pressure just nicely.

I would assume that this happens because you're always in the upper rpm range and hence the spike in oil pressure because the pump is intended to operate at a slower avg rpm? And this would be for both a stock engine as well as a modded engine? (Mine is stock and remain so for the indefinate future, need to learn how to use the power available now rather than find more.)


I'm still running a stock set up with regard to the oil cooler. I've actually not seen any of the early models 'blow' though. I wonder if the first batches had better quality coolers?

I know they made a few minor engine mods on '09 and later bikes, so perhaps thats when the oil pressure problem reared it's head? I have seen some comments on the 675.forums about it, prolly ought to research there some more.


If it goes, it manifests as oil being pumped into the header tank until it overflows down the side of your bike! It doesn't seem to harm the motor as long as you cut it as soon as you notice it.

I'll keep that in mind.


I'm not trying to put you off or anything, I totally love mine. Just saying to be aware that this could possibly happen at some point.

Get some pics up when you're ready and we might see you at a track sometime. Cheers.

All good. I love the bike and the way it handles, sounds, feels, smells, looks at me................um well, ah, nm that last one. This year hasn't worked out too well for me making trackdays, but I'm sure once I get things sorted I'll be back out there.

[SWERVE]

in my limited ownwership and racing (of a great bike) i would say the following.
Check oil level every meeting as they DO use oil..... and run it up at the max mark. I used Maxima 5/30RR and had no issues
Do the Triumph sump gasket mod (it has an inbuilt baffle to prevent oil surge under brakes)
There is a oil relief valve mod too (from a Rocket 3 i think) although i never did this)
Invest in some larger rear sprockets...you will need them.
A good steering damper (the std one is useless)
*WARNING* if using Dunlop D211gp on the front move the front guard up about 5/10 mm as Dunlops grow na lot when hot and WILL foul the inside of front fender at high speed. But Dunlops work well on these bikes.
If you can afford it a fibreglass/kevlar tank from MUZZABIKES in ChCh as the tank always knocks the corner off when crashing (the Muzza tank doesnt hold fuel in the rear section)
The locki stops will dissappear when you crash (they are made of cheese!)
Buy or make a lock stop bracket that goes over the air intake (protects the intake snorkel too when crashing)
I dont recommend using frame slider knobs as the mounting points on frame arnt that strong.
DONT mean to sound like a doom n gloomer....... as it was the best bike i have owned...and woulnt hesitate on another if i ever do.

[1Triplered]

in my limited ownwership and racing (of a great bike) i would say the following.
Check oil level every meeting as they DO use oil..... and run it up at the max mark. I used Maxima 5/30RR and had no issues
Do the Triumph sump gasket mod (it has an inbuilt baffle to prevent oil surge under brakes)
There is a oil relief valve mod too (from a Rocket 3 i think) although i never did this)
Invest in some larger rear sprockets...you will need them.
A good steering damper (the std one is useless)
*WARNING* if using Dunlop D211gp on the front move the front guard up about 5/10 mm as Dunlops grow na lot when hot and WILL foul the inside of front fender at high speed. But Dunlops work well on these bikes.
If you can afford it a fibreglass/kevlar tank from MUZZABIKES in ChCh as the tank always knocks the corner off when crashing (the Muzza tank doesnt hold fuel in the rear section)
The locki stops will dissappear when you crash (they are made of cheese!)
Buy or make a lock stop bracket that goes over the air intake (protects the intake snorkel too when crashing)
I dont recommend using frame slider knobs as the mounting points on frame arnt that strong.
DONT mean to sound like a doom n gloomer....... as it was the best bike i have owned...and woulnt hesitate on another if i ever do.

As above , good idea to put a tether kill switch on as well for that peace of mind the bikes not running on its side starving of oil,(they do have tilt switch)
I have done the sump gasket to stop oil surge, mine is 06 as well I keep a close eye on the overflow bottle for any signs of the oil cooler
problem but been all good so far , I use the 09 dipstick for oil level which is more oil in the sump but do the sump gasket at the same time as the
new gasket will have the baffle to stop that oil surging away from the pickup and keep it from splashing up around the crank.

But yea as above will see you at the track mate.

[tail_end_charlie]

in my limited ownwership and racing (of a great bike) i would say the following.
Check oil level every meeting as they DO use oil..... and run it up at the max mark. I used Maxima 5/30RR and had no issues
Do the Triumph sump gasket mod (it has an inbuilt baffle to prevent oil surge under brakes)
There is a oil relief valve mod too (from a Rocket 3 i think) although i never did this)
Invest in some larger rear sprockets...you will need them.
A good steering damper (the std one is useless)
*WARNING* if using Dunlop D211gp on the front move the front guard up about 5/10 mm as Dunlops grow na lot when hot and WILL foul the inside of front fender at high speed. But Dunlops work well on these bikes.
If you can afford it a fibreglass/kevlar tank from MUZZABIKES in ChCh as the tank always knocks the corner off when crashing (the Muzza tank doesnt hold fuel in the rear section)
The locki stops will dissappear when you crash (they are made of cheese!)
Buy or make a lock stop bracket that goes over the air intake (protects the intake snorkel too when crashing)
I dont recommend using frame slider knobs as the mounting points on frame arnt that strong.
DONT mean to sound like a doom n gloomer....... as it was the best bike i have owned...and woulnt hesitate on another if i ever do.

All good mate, I'll listen to advice freely given. And every bike has it's faults, so I'm be glad to get info on the Daytona and do some preventive maintenance. :niceone:


As above , good idea to put a tether kill switch on as well for that peace of mind the bikes not running on its side starving of oil,(they do have tilt switch)
I have done the sump gasket to stop oil surge, mine is 06 as well I keep a close eye on the overflow bottle for any signs of the oil cooler
problem but been all good so far , I use the 09 dipstick for oil level which is more oil in the sump but do the sump gasket at the same time as the
new gasket will have the baffle to stop that oil surging away from the pickup and keep it from splashing up around the crank.

But yea as above will see you at the track mate.

Good stuff mate, looking at maybe doing Clubmans the last round of AMCC in april on the Daytona. You be back racing by then? :msn-wink:

[manxkiwi]

Very good points above. I have the lock stop saver and run the oil just over the max mark, Mobil 1 racing 4T. I think the crash bungs that mount across the two upper engine mounts are sound. As they go directly into the engine mounts where it's at its strongest. I got mine second hand and had been crashed a few times with no issues. Made new bungs at work. I've seen ones that only mount on one hole. These of course swing around in the event of an off and do more harm than good.

Have you had the reg/rect done under warranty? Good to get that done if you can.

I've put the header tank overflow into a bottle in the front of the fairing too. If you manage to glimpse it occasionally when on track you'll have an early warning of cooler failiure.

Cheers.

[wharfy]

WOT swerve said +
Mine (an 08) has done the heat exchanger - it is pretty spectacular - oil gets pumped into the cooling system at oil pressure levels which is considerably higher than the coolant pressure and LOTS of lovely puss coloured shit comes out of the coolant reservoir all over your leg and rear tyre !!!
Apparently the same heat exchanger is used on a number of European bikes (Aprillia, KTM) and a whole batch of them failed.
Some people have suggested that because race engines don't run the normal coolant conditioner (glycol based and NOT allowed in a race bike) that corrosion is the cause - I dunno ??
When the engine was pulled down to check it out there was no apparent damage and it has run OK since.

I've got :
the sump gasket with the baffle (for oil surge issue alternative is to put about 1 litre more oil in )
the race cam chain and manual adjuster (heavier chain - more reliable tension)
the race head gasket (steel for reliability more than performance)
Harris full exhaust system

I change the oil every ten hours (I have a wee hour meter )
New filter every second change - cheap insurance I reckon !!

Apart from the heat exchanger the only problems I've had have been due to my dodgy wiring (replaced key with switch) and I can't ride very well :)
House of custom did have some nice rear subframes about $1000 cheaper than Triumph ones !!
I've tested the GB engine case covers - they work great :)

I LOVE mine :love:

[manxkiwi]

I have done the sump gasket to stop oil surge, mine is 06 as well I keep a close eye on the overflow bottle for any signs of the oil cooler
problem but been all good so far , I use the 09 dipstick for oil level which is more oil in the sump but do the sump gasket at the same time as the
new gasket will have the baffle to stop that oil surging away from the pickup and keep it from splashing up around the crank.

But yea as above will see you at the track mate.


Do you (or anyone) have the part number for the baffled sump gasket?

Also, how much shorter is the 09 dipstick? Or how much above max would you run on an 06/07 dipstick?

Cheers.

[1Triplered]

Do you (or anyone) have the part number for the baffled sump gasket?

Also, how much shorter is the 09 dipstick? Or how much above max would you run on an 06/07 dipstick?

Cheers.

The bafffled sump gasket is a standard replacement for the old gasket , when you replace it you need to drop a bypass pipe which has a o ring at each end, I replaced them as well which you could get away with not doing but for the price and while you are there.

I had a scrounge around for the receipts but no luck for part numbers, price was only around $25-30 or something.

Basicly the full mark on the 06 dipstick is the min mark on the 09, the full mark on the 09 is around the top of the cross hatch on the 06,
Go to Triumph 675.net there is a good photo on there showing the difference , (oil level dipstick old and new)

[1Triplered]

"Good stuff mate, looking at maybe doing Clubmans the last round of AMCC in april on the Daytona. You be back racing by then? :msn-wink"


Yea got medical clearance couple of weeks ago so yep will be there have entered PMCC R2 at Taupo next weekend, Clubmans, looking forward to that.:yes:

[tail_end_charlie]

The baffled sump gasket is a standard replacement for the old gasket , when you replace it you need to drop a bypass pipe which has a o ring at each end, I replaced them as well which you could get away with not doing but for the price and while you are there.

I had a scrounge around for the receipts but no luck for part numbers, price was only around $25-30 or something.

Basicly the full mark on the 06 dipstick is the min mark on the 09, the full mark on the 09 is around the top of the cross hatch on the 06,
Go to Triumph 675.net there is a good photo on there showing the difference , (oil level dipstick old and new)

Sweet, I was about to ask if those sump gaskets were Triumph or aftermarket. I'll have to pick on up.


Yea got medical clearance couple of weeks ago so yep will be there have entered PMCC R2 at Taupo next weekend, Clubmans, looking forward to that.:yes:

Cool beans. I'm gonna come down for the Taupo round, won't have a bike, but have a look around and see what sort of time people are doing. I'll see ya then.

[SuperSonic]

I don't have a 675 but really like the look and sound of them, I have one question and i feel it is very import one.

You said that the bike was crashed by a mechanic into a car that pulled out in front of him?? THis then givening you a bent swing arm?? Right?

Question can you find someone to see if rest of bike bent or straight IE frame/chassis is straight. If frame is bent then I would not spend a sent on the bike adn use for spare parts.

If you like more info on my PM me

Sam

[300weatherby]

I don't have a 675 but really like the look and sound of them, I have one question and i feel it is very import one.

You said that the bike was crashed by a mechanic into a car that pulled out in front of him?? THis then givening you a bent swing arm?? Right?

Question can you find someone to see if rest of bike bent or straight IE frame/chassis is straight. If frame is bent then I would not spend a sent on the bike adn use for spare parts.

If you like more info on my PM me

Sam

Did you mean forks? swingarm is at the other end of the bike.......

[300weatherby]

Do you (or anyone) have the part number for the baffled sump gasket?

Also, how much shorter is the 09 dipstick? Or how much above max would you run on an 06/07 dipstick?

Cheers.

Might have been me you got your dual mount crash bungs from, can do a race sump baffle if you need, the Rocket3 oil pressure relief valve is good if you are not running the oil pump gearing kit.

Run a 15t front and work around 45/46 rear, try not to run 16/47-48 -49 as the chain pull angle adds complexity to already difficult geometry on a 675.

-On a strandard 675 run forks flush with triple clamps, use the softest rear spring you can that still allows correct sag numbers.
-On the front, run firmest springs that still give the correct sag numbers in tandem with lesser preload.
-On the front, with the bumpstops out, the standard valving up front is good enough for most track day/ club level riders, the mechanical bottom out is 17mm standard, get rid of that and run a reduced air gap, will cost a great deal less than Racetec/Ohlins valving, spend the dough on track time first.
Rear valving on standard shock is appalling, but changing out the spring is of huge benefit.

- Alternately, modify your triple clamps with 5mm offset to give the bike back trail and add stability, this will allow you to use rear ride height in tandem with fork through to get the geometry that suits the bike and track most ridden. (I run 8mm and can use lots of ride height without the bike being difficult on trail braking and unstable on hard exit )

The above gets around the need to change the swingarm pivots to gain sidegrip on exit.

[SuperSonic]

Did you mean forks? swingarm is at the other end of the bike.......



No I mean the whole bike needs to be check, but I am really talking about the main frame. As the swing arm is connected to the main frame. On these bikes that point is very weak, if under stress will/can cause the main frame to bend a bit or the joint of swing arm and main frame to bend. This then making the bike junk with a bent frame and un-tuneable really.

[tail_end_charlie]

I don't have a 675 but really like the look and sound of them, I have one question and i feel it is very import one.

You said that the bike was crashed by a mechanic into a car that pulled out in front of him?? THis then givening you a bent swing arm?? Right?

No. From what I can see from the damage on the bike, and from explanation from the shop as to how the crash occured, I don't see any damage to the swingarm.


Question can you find someone to see if rest of bike bent or straight IE frame/chassis is straight. If frame is bent then I would not spend a sent on the bike adn use for spare parts.

If you like more info on my PM me

Sam

There is some rubber marks on the bottom of the fork tube from where the car tire hit, and that is one thing that worries me. My plan is to take the forks out and send them down to Robert Taylor at KSS to check and make sure the forks are still straight and nothing has been bent. So long as they are good, I'll continue on with the project. The swingarm doesn't have any damage on it to indicate that it was hit hard on anything, so it should be alright. Looking at the back of the bike the rear subframe (seat assembly) is canted off to one side just a little bit. That should be the only 'structural' damage to the bike and the only reason that it was de-registered. From what I have heard/read the OEM rear subframe is a bit soft and does't take much of a fall to bend it. I still need to check and see that it hasn't twisted the mounting tabs on the bike frame, but I'm pretty sure that its all good.

Overall the crash was a bit more of a relatively low speed glancing blow off a car and the bike when down and scraped things up a bit. Other than the rear subframe I don't think there is any other serious damage to the bike, just cosmetic (going to get the forks checked just in case). I will, however, take a close look at it when I'm stipping it down to see if there is any areas of damage that didn't appear during the intial inspection.

[tail_end_charlie]

Might have been me you got your dual mount crash bungs from, can do a race sump baffle if you need, the Rocket3 oil pressure relief valve is good if you are not running the oil pump gearing kit.
Currently looking at doing the new sump baffle, not sure about the RIII mod yet, will look into it and see how much work/expense it is. I'll probably do it though.

Run a 15t front and work around 45/46 rear, try not to run 16/47-48 -49 as the chain pull angle adds complexity to already difficult geometry on a 675.
Running stock right now (16/47 I believe) so new sprockets are on the short list. Might as well go for a 520 chain as well, right?

-On a standard 675 run forks flush with triple clamps, use the softest rear spring you can that still allows correct sag numbers.
Right now they are at the stock setting in the triple clamps (bout 5mm proud). Replaced the rear spring with a softer Ohlins (9.5 I think?)with a lot of preload on it to get the correct sag.

-On the front, run firmest springs that still give the correct sag numbers in tandem with lesser preload.
Check. Standard springs with the preload wound almost all the way out gives me pretty good sag numbers. I'm around 70 kgs in full kit.

-On the front, with the bumpstops out, the standard valving up front is good enough for most track day/ club level riders, the mechanical bottom out is 17mm standard, get rid of that and run a reduced air gap, will cost a great deal less than Racetec/Ohlins valving, spend the dough on track time first.
Check. KSS removed something like 80% of the hydralic bottoming, but we left the standard pistons and valving un-modified. I might get them to modify them when I send the forks down to get checked out.

Rear valving on standard shock is appalling, but changing out the spring is of huge benefit.
Check. KSS modified the rear valving a little bit and am running it in conjunction with a softer spring.

- Alternately, modify your triple clamps with 5mm offset to give the bike back trail and add stability, this will allow you to use rear ride height in tandem with fork through to get the geometry that suits the bike and track most ridden. (I run 8mm and can use lots of ride height without the bike being difficult on trail braking and unstable on hard exit )

The above gets around the need to change the swingarm pivots to gain sidegrip on exit.

For now I'll hold off on that. Right now I'm not carrying enough cornerspeed, nor accelerating hard enough out of the corners to really test the sidegrip. Soon enough I'll have to find my big boy balls and push things a little harder to find any handling problems that arn't rider induced errors.

[SuperSonic]

No. From what I can see from the damage on the bike, and from explanation from the shop as to how the crash occured, I don't see any damage to the swingarm.



There is some rubber marks on the bottom of the fork tube from where the car tire hit, and that is one thing that worries me. My plan is to take the forks out and send them down to Robert Taylor at KSS to check and make sure the forks are still straight and nothing has been bent. So long as they are good, I'll continue on with the project. The swingarm doesn't have any damage on it to indicate that it was hit hard on anything, so it should be alright. Looking at the back of the bike the rear subframe (seat assembly) is canted off to one side just a little bit. That should be the only 'structural' damage to the bike and the only reason that it was de-registered. From what I have heard/read the OEM rear subframe is a bit soft and does't take much of a fall to bend it. I still need to check and see that it hasn't twisted the mounting tabs on the bike frame, but I'm pretty sure that its all good.

Overall the crash was a bit more of a relatively low speed glancing blow off a car and the bike when down and scraped things up a bit. Other than the rear subframe I don't think there is any other serious damage to the bike, just cosmetic (going to get the forks checked just in case). I will, however, take a close look at it when I'm stipping it down to see if there is any areas of damage that didn't appear during the intial inspection.

Hey, sorry miss understood the crash, great to hear that you are getting forks checked etc, and check steering bearings etc too while you are at it.

SOunds like you are all over it, great to read you are getting chassis and suspension sorted before the need to power up the bike.