Next gen gaming consoles

[Scuba_Steve]

Well seems PC's might be about to take the back seat in GFX again for awhile if the WSJ (wall street journal) is to be believed. They reckon Sony's big announcement Feb 20th is the PS4, & it's to be released this year (expect xmas season). Other rumours also suggest MS is planning a xmas season release of their next console too

Is it true? guess we'll find out Feb 20th till then feel free to speculate

latest dev specs for the machine show
4x AMD64 dual-core CPU
ATI/AMD R10xx
8GB sys mem
2.2GB vid mem
Blu-ray
160GB HDD
4x USB 3.0
2x Etherweb
WLAN
HDMI
Optical
Uses PS3 controllers but will come with an upgraded PS4 controller with touchpad
There was apparently talk of removing the blu-ray drive & going digital only, but then they remembered the PSP-Go

As for the Xbox dev kit
AMD64 8core CPU
custom DX11.1 AMD/ATI GPU (supposedly less powerful then PS4's, at-least at dev kit level)
8GB sys mem
unknown vid mem (prob similar to PS4)
Blu-Ray
USB 3.0 (# of ports unknown)
1x etherweb
WLAN
Kinect
HDMI output & input
HDD (suggested 500GB on consumer models)

Being a Dev unit means specs can change wildly from release to consumer models, also means HDD is likely to be much bigger on consumer models & sys ram around half of that in Dev kit

[YellowDog]

It's the only way they can start getting profit out of tin.

Works for Apple, so why not :yes:

[steve_t]

Did they suggest an RRP?

[imdying]

It seems a bit more marginal this time... I already have a PC that exceeds those specs. Ok, that cost about $1600 to build (ok lies, $1800 including Windows), but I'm pretty sure my PS3 cost me $1000! Of course that ignores the fact that every PS4 will have the same specs, and the (positive) effect that has on development, but on the flip side they have always released PC games that choke systems far higher spec'd than my own. Give them 2 years to take the sting out of the pricing, and for the development houses to utilise the power, and we'll be cooking!

I do have some questions though.... Rockstar's announcement this week to push GTA5 back to September... related? If there's a PS4 version, I'll pay the horrific new adopter price for the PS4 no questions asked. What's the maximum texture size going to be... 4096 x 4096?

[bogan]

Have PCs ever taken the back seat performance wise?

Or do you mean per dollars? I used to think PS3 was expensive gaming, until I build a top teir gaming PC :innocent:

I do wonder what the extra power is going to get though, consoles are generally only hooked up to fullHD display, so uber GFX isn't needed with current gen games, unless they start making next gen games which use them for uber physics...

[SMOKEU]

More crappy console ports to look forward to.

[bogan]

More crappy console ports to look forward to.

That's what you get for not paying for PC games :bleh:

[steve_t]

Have PCs ever taken the back seat performance wise?

Or do you mean per dollars? I used to think PS3 was expensive gaming, until I build a top teir gaming PC :innocent:

I do wonder what the extra power is going to get though, consoles are generally only hooked up to fullHD display, so uber GFX isn't needed with current gen games, unless they start making next gen games which use them for uber physics...

If the lifespan of PS3 is anything to go by, they'll be future-proofing for 4K/UltraHD and perhaps beyond

[bogan]

If the lifespan of PS3 is anything to go by, they'll be future-proofing for 4K/UltraHD and perhaps beyond

True, guess its a chicken egg scenario too, no point developing next gen games without next gen consoles.

[SMOKEU]

That's what you get for not paying for PC games :bleh:

No, it's due to the increasing demand for consoles so the devs can't be fucked/won't release a proper PC version. Take a look at the NFS games, just as an example. The PC versions look horrible due to the shitty made for console graphics.

[bogan]

No, it's due to the increasing demand for consoles so the devs can't be fucked/won't release a proper PC version. Take a look at the NFS games, just as an example. The PC versions look horrible due to the shitty made for console graphics.

And demand is measured by what? Downloads of pirated copies? or game sales?

[steve_t]

True, guess its a chicken egg scenario too, no point developing next gen games without next gen consoles.

Oh, and how cool is the Sony SimulView?! No more splitscreen :yes: This is the only adaptation of 3D that I feel has any worth :corn:

[bogan]

Oh, and how cool is the Sony SimulView?! No more splitscreen :yes: This is the only adaptation of 3D that I feel has any worth :corn:

That is neat, hadn't heard of it before, but it makes perfect sense.

[SMOKEU]

And demand is measured by what? Downloads of pirated copies? or game sales?

Both. BTW, I do actually pay for some games since it's not always possible to play pirated games online without a genuine key.

[bogan]

Both. BTW, I do actually pay for some games since it's not always possible to play pirated games online without a genuine key.

No, not both, the devs measure demand by what they get paid for something (excluding some of the indie stuff of course). This is the reason crackers say if you like the game, buy it.

[Scuba_Steve]

Did they suggest an RRP?

No, 20th is Sony's announcement & there's been no official word it is a next gen release announcement. But given history (PS1, PS2, PS3) I think we can expect around $1k NZD @ release.




I do have some questions though.... Rockstar's announcement this week to push GTA5 back to September... related? If there's a PS4 version, I'll pay the horrific new adopter price for the PS4 no questions asked. What's the maximum texture size going to be... 4096 x 4096?

I'm wondering about the GTA thing too, could be to get a PS4 ver ready. Be good if they released the PS3 & PS4 ver on the same disc, save holding out till I can afford a PS4.



Have PCs ever taken the back seat performance wise?

Or do you mean per dollars? I used to think PS3 was expensive gaming, until I build a top teir gaming PC :innocent:

I do wonder what the extra power is going to get though, consoles are generally only hooked up to fullHD display, so uber GFX isn't needed with current gen games, unless they start making next gen games which use them for uber physics...

Yes every time a new console is released PC's take the backseat & they'll mostly stay there for the 1st 4yrs with a bit of leap frog here & there. It's usually at 4yrs that the Devs have maxed out the potential of the GFX chip whereas the PC can carry on buying upgraded GFX cards each year
GFX isn't just Res, I assume the increase in power will be to drive the split 3D systems, better more detailed texture, better physics, more variety of GFX (something the current consoles still best even the latest greatest PC GFX card on thanks to direct coding). But you are right this next gen should be able to stop trying to best the GFX & gen back to making games instead of "art"

[bogan]

Yes every time a new console is released PC's take the backseat & they'll mostly stay there for the 1st 4yrs with a bit of leap frog here & there. It's usually at 4yrs that the Devs have maxed out the potential of the GFX chip whereas the PC can carry on buying upgraded GFX cards each year
GFX isn't just Res, I assume the increase in power will be to drive the split 3D systems, better more detailed texture, better physics, more variety of GFX (something the current consoles still best even the latest greatest PC GFX card on thanks to direct coding). But you are right this next gen should be able to stop trying to best the GFX & gen back to making games instead of "art"

PCs in general take a backseat yes, but the available hardware for PCs will still outperform that used in next gen consoles, it's just not many people have it; hence my per price comment.

No its not just res, but in general everything scales with res, so you can put all the fancy FXAA and AO, particles etc, but unless its driving a big screen, even mainstream GFX like the 660 won't be too taxed. What do you mean by direct coding making the consoles still best? Console GFX simply does not outperform PC gfx. If anything consoles are what holding PCs back cos devs won't realise the full potential if they have to develop for console as well.

[Scuba_Steve]

PCs in general take a backseat yes, but the available hardware for PCs will still outperform that used in next gen consoles, it's just not many people have it; hence my per price comment.

No its not just res, but in general everything scales with res, so you can put all the fancy FXAA and AO, particles etc, but unless its driving a big screen, even mainstream GFX like the 660 won't be too taxed. What do you mean by direct coding making the consoles still best? Console GFX simply does not outperform PC gfx. If anything consoles are what holding PCs back cos devs won't realise the full potential if they have to develop for console as well.

price, consoles continually out perform, but in the 1st few years consoles play leapfrog with PC gfx too

direct coding to HW far outperforms having to go through API's just look at PC GFX cards they're probably round 50x more powerful than those in console by now but they're only pulling round 4x the performance.
What I meant with the 1 part where current consoles still outperform even the best PC GFX setup is current gen consoles can handle around 20,000 different "objects", even the best gaming PC's max out at 5,000 (or 2-3,000 without performance hit) hence why alot of bricks, grass, trees, people etc are just repeated & look the same (PC's can replicate the same object over & over far in excess of consoles). This is because they have to go though DirectX if they too could direct code then yes, they would far outperform consoles in variation as well, but given then choice people have in PC setups they can't direct code so performance takes a hit with API's.
As for "consoles holding back PC's" thats bullshit. The only ones holding back PC's is PC gamers like SMOKEU who doesn't like to pay for games & the majority of PC gamers who can't handle what PC's are capable of. Why on earth would you make a game only 5% of the PC gaming market is capable of running?

[bogan]

price, consoles continually out perform, but in the 1st few years consoles play leapfrog with PC gfx too

direct coding to HW far outperforms having to go through API's just look at PC GFX cards they're probably round 50x more powerful than those in console by now but they're only pulling round 4x the performance.
What I meant with the 1 part where current consoles still outperform even the best PC GFX setup is current gen consoles can handle around 20,000 different "objects", even the best gaming PC's max out at 5,000 (or 2-3,000 without performance hit) hence why alot of bricks, grass, trees, people etc are just repeated & look the same (PC's can replicate the same object over & over far in excess of consoles). This is because they have to go though DirectX if they too could direct code then yes, they would far outperform consoles in variation as well, but given then choice people have in PC setups they can't direct code so performance takes a hit with API's.
As for "consoles holding back PC's" thats bullshit. The only ones holding back PC's is PC gamers like SMOKEU who doesn't like to pay for games & the majority of PC gamers who can't handle what PC's are capable of. Why on earth would you make a game only 5% of the PC gaming market is capable of running?

Yeh, I'm still not seeing it happen even in the first few years. Direct coding is beneficial, but offset by production costs and TDP. Spend 4x as much on a computer, and it'll make up for a consoles specific purpose design, and then some. Here a comparison for Oblivion 3 months after PS3 was released http://www.gamespot.com/forums/topic/25373626/oblivion-pc-vs-ps3-vs-x360

Is 2-3,000 objects really not enough? Anyway, consoles look worse at lower resolutions than a PC is capable of. To conclude the 'current situation' http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-11-30-far-cry-3-triple-format-comparison-gallery those are screenshots from FC3 across xbox 360, pc, and ps3 at HD res. PC's look better, and can display at QHD with higher frame rates.

There's a number of reasons to why devs are developing for consoles instead of computers, then porting across; but the bottom line is if they were developing for better consoles, the ported product would be better too. Hence consoles holding PC games back.

[Scuba_Steve]

There's a number of reasons to why devs are developing for consoles instead of computers, then porting across; but the bottom line is if they were developing for better consoles, the ported product would be better too. Hence consoles holding PC games back.

That argument still doesn't fly, there are PC only games. They don't have all this fantastic GFX you reckon they would have, also PS3 Gen is the 1st Gen it was done console -> PC the rest was PC -> console
Hell about the only PC games to ever try & build "PC GFX" are Crysis & possibly Metro 2033.
Anyways if MS has their way you'll be gaming on an Xbox in the near future anyways, rumour has it they wanna kill PC gaming & absorb it into the Xbox (& make the Xbox upgradeable like a PC but with proprietary MS parts) With Windows becoming nothing more than a metro interface

[steve_t]

I've been waiting ages for PS4 but now wondering if it's worth waiting to see what Valve's Steam Box has to offer

[bogan]

That argument still doesn't fly, there are PC only games. They don't have all this fantastic GFX you reckon they would have, also PS3 Gen is the 1st Gen it was done console -> PC the rest was PC -> console
Hell about the only PC games to ever try & build "PC GFX" are Crysis & possibly Metro 2033.
Anyways if MS has their way you'll be gaming on an Xbox in the near future anyways, rumour has it they wanna kill PC gaming & absorb it into the Xbox (& make the Xbox upgradeable like a PC but with proprietary MS parts) With Windows becoming nothing more than a metro interface

There will always be a spectrum, look up some Crysis 3 videos if you want to see just how good PC games can be. With the industry standard essentially being console, its really only the best who push the envelope in the PC environment, like crysis and metro 2033. Put it this way, do you expect the quality of PC games to show the biggest increase in years once the next gen consoles come out, or stay much the same?

[Scuba_Steve]

I've been waiting ages for PS4 but now wondering if it's worth waiting to see what Valve's Steam Box has to offer

Yea I'm a bit confused about what they're trying to achieve there?
Are they just trying to give people a cheap setup box guaranteed to run games that pass a "steam cert" or something?
Then there's Ouya which seems to be doing just that with Android games.
I guess "casual gaming" is becoming where the moneys at in more recent times, but are these devices really filling any void, or just creating their own void to fill?

[SMOKEU]

As for "consoles holding back PC's" thats bullshit. The only ones holding back PC's is PC gamers like SMOKEU who doesn't like to pay for games & the majority of PC gamers who can't handle what PC's are capable of. Why on earth would you make a game only 5% of the PC gaming market is capable of running?

I have been bitterly disappointed with several modern games, up to the point I uninstall it after an hour at the most. With some games I'll download a torrent, try it out, and if I like it and the game has good multiplayer features (like BF3), then I'll happily pay for it.

My moderately overclocked single 2GB 6950 was released in December 2010, and yet it can handle all modern games at 1080p, although I do have to turn the graphics down to medium or medium - high settings on many games, so you don't need a super expensive system to handle modern games unless you want to play everything at 1080p+ with high graphics settings. Most desktops built in the past 2 years with a reasonable GPU can handle modern games.

[Akzle]

y'all realise pirating console games only requires a DL DVR drive and some linux awesome, eh?
else install linux to your console and rip them straight to the HDD.

[Headbanger]

Yes every time a new console is released PC's take the backseat & they'll mostly stay there for the 1st 4yrs with a bit of leap frog here & there.

Never happened, Even a modest gaming PC was running games at a higher resolution's then what the current generation of consoles run at on the day of their release. 720p upscaled is nothing to be proud of, Neither is the halving of the frames per second.

[Headbanger]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest your pc gets outperformed by a console because of all the shitty apple software you run......

[bogan]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest your pc gets outperformed by a console because of all the shitty apple software you run......

Can I go out on the other limb and say mine performs heaps better because of the awesome apple software I run then? :yawn:

[Scuba_Steve]

Never happened, Even a modest gaming PC was running games at a higher resolution's then what the current generation of consoles run at on the day of their release. 720p upscaled is nothing to be proud of, Neither is the halving of the frames per second.

Does happen, I saw my mate piss away a fuck load of moneys on the latest & greatest 8800GTX (round 1500$) & intel CPU (round $1k) just before the PS3 release, come forward a year he was due a replacement as they no-longer "cut the mustard"
But if we go back to PS1, no PC was capable of it's GFX. It took till round 3DFX Voodoo II -> III before PC's caught up with the PS1, but then PS1 did bring polygons to the table a whole new era of gaming.

And top end machines aren't "modest gaming PC's", you do understand (as I've mentioned before with PC gamers holding PC gaming back) most gamers aren't running particularly good specs, just look at Steam survey results. They show majority of gamers running dual core 2.3-2.7 CPUs, Intel G31/G33 GFX & 4-8Gb RAM with the most common dedicated GFX being 6100
Your "modest gaming PC's" account for around 10-20% of the PC gaming community

[imdying]

You mate could have used an 8800GTS (<$700) and the next CPU down (<$500) and have 95% of the result though.

The Steam stats are skewed by a large percentage of their users being stuck on the family white box; they're not gaming PCs perse.

The reality is, if you want the best graphics at the best frame rates, you're stuck on a PC. Have a look at Gran Turismo 5... it's a mostly detail-less world that allows very few cars on the track at once. GTA4 is another example... get a few explosions on the screen and it's goodbye frame rate, the number of NPC/vehicles on the screen is small, and that's at only 720p.

The best thing about consoles is you just pop the disc in and off you go (ok, except for the 200MB patch it wants to download, after another 100MB system patch, but for the most part it holds true).

[imdying]

Aside from historial trivia, none of that really matters in any case, this is what matters:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVX0OUO9ptU

4K live demo, hell yeah.

[Headbanger]

well, that was silly, at the time of the PS3 release in NZ the AMD dual core Athlons cpu's were kicking arse in gaming and in value for money. They could be had for a couple hundred dollars and paired up with a motherboard for an additional $80.

You can pick any year in the life span of any console, and PC's were running the same game at a higher resolution, higher detail, and with higher fps. Then as now you paid more for the extra perforance and capabilities, But that is how it should be. The difference between a good pc and a gaming PC is simply a video card, The difference between a shit PC and a gaming PC is a complete replacement.

If after a "year" they no longer cut the mustard thats is due to the expectations of the owner and the open ended design of the platform, not due to consoles.

Funny enough, My racing sim setup is still running a 4850, Damn nice mid-range card in 2008.

[Scuba_Steve]

You mate could have used an 8800GTS (<$700) and the next CPU down (<$500) and have 95% of the result though.

The Steam stats are skewed by a large percentage of their users being stuck on the family white box; they're not gaming PCs perse.

The reality is, if you want the best graphics at the best frame rates, you're stuck on a PC. Have a look at Gran Turismo 5... it's a mostly detail-less world that allows very few cars on the track at once. GTA4 is another example... get a few explosions on the screen and it's goodbye frame rate, the number of NPC/vehicles on the screen is small, and that's at only 720p.

The best thing about consoles is you just pop the disc in and off you go (ok, except for the 200MB patch it wants to download, after another 100MB system patch, but for the most part it holds true).

Yea he quickly learnt "latest & greatest" was a effort in futile.
You're right in a way about them not being "gaming PC's" but they are a majority of "gamer's PC's" & that's the thing, most PC gamer's don't have "gaming PC" specs.

End of day console have the price point & ease of use advantage, while PC's can have the GFX advantage & that's always going to be the case

[imdying]

You're right in a way about them not being "gaming PC's" but they are a majority of "gamer's PC's" & that's the thing, most PC gamer's don't have "gaming PC" specs.That would be the majority of Steam users, which is distinct from gamers. Many gamers do not use and have no interest in Steam. I've been a pc gamer for 25 years and I've only used it in the last 3 months. I can see why they avoid it though... what a steaming pile of poo. My first experience with it was pretty good, but pretty soon I found I would have been better off purchasing the real deal or ripping it off. Their stats show that the majority of their users pcs have discrete graphics though, surprisingly, even the laptops.

[bogan]

That would be the majority of Steam users, which is distinct from gamers. Many gamers do not use and have no interest in Steam. I've been a pc gamer for 25 years and I've only used it in the last 3 months. I can see why they avoid it though... what a steaming pile of poo. My first experience with it was pretty good, but pretty soon I found I would have been better off purchasing the real deal or ripping it off. Their stats show that the majority of their users pcs have discrete graphics though, surprisingly, even the laptops.

Seems like its the way PC gaming is going though, only got steam about 3 months ago too, and will probably get EA's version for this month... Not seeing any problem with it personally.

[imdying]

I'm a bit reluctant to buy games that don't actually work. Even less so when a ripped copy works just fine. The system itself seems to tick along ok though.

[bogan]

I'm a bit reluctant to buy games that don't actually work. Even less so when a ripped copy works just fine. The system itself seems to tick along ok though.

Yours don't work? I can see why that would be annoying, is it common for them not to work?

[Usarka]

The best thing about consoles is you just pop the disc in and off you go (ok, except for the 200MB patch it wants to download, after another 100MB system patch, but for the most part it holds true).

The best thing about consoles is being able to sit on the couch with the big tv and home theater setup.

[Akzle]

The best thing about consoles is being able to sit on the couch with the big tv and home theater setup.

there's this shit called wireless, the blacks invented it in rotorua about the 1700s. look it up.

((also, i'd expect any new gfx card to handle HDMI or the DVI thing, and your fancy teev, too. and if you don't have an awesome stereo/sound card, you're a poofter.))

[Headbanger]

Steam is better then it was a few years ago, Still a pain in the ring hole to have to run another layer of software just to run the game. The entire set it to run offline before attempting to run games offline is just fkn retarded.

The other issue is when the games don't work, You not only have that extra layer of software to cloud the issue but 2 companies involved.

[imdying]

Yours don't work? I can see why that would be annoying, is it common for them not to work?After the first failure (second game mind, first one was fine), I'm not prepared to spend any more money... cost enough in download cap.


The best thing about consoles is being able to sit on the couch with the big tv and home theater setup.But you can do that fine with a PC. Arguably much better too... you actually get 1080p from a PC in any game. PCs all have HDMI these days, so you just plug in a single cable and off it goes.

[imdying]

Steam is better then it was a few years ago, Still a pain in the ring hole to have to run another layer of software just to run the game. The entire set it to run offline before attempting to run games offline is just fkn retarded.

The other issue is when the games don't work, You not only have that extra layer of software to cloud the issue but 2 companies involved.

Try FarCry3... you get two layers of shite to wade through (Steam and uPlay).

[Headbanger]

The best thing about consoles is being able to sit on the couch with the big tv and home theater setup.

I've got my main PC not only running into a 32" lcd as a main monitor but running a HDMI cable into my amp, which then feeds the video into a 55" LCD in the lounge.Pretty sweet deal, especially with a wireless kb/mouse, and the ability for someone to be watching a blu-ray on the main TV while I play games on the monitor, all running from the single source.

Secondary PC is running a projector with a wall sized display, an amp, a big fuck off set of speakers, and a recliner for me to kick back in style.

Of course, I also have an Xbox shrine in the lounge, Its how I keep my kids off the PC's....

[Headbanger]

Try FarCry3... you get two layers of shite to wade through (Steam and uPlay).

I fired up a game the other day through steam, it then fired up windows live. Think it might have been Dirt 3.

Also I puchased Test Drive 2 through steam, 20Gb, fucker didn 't run, Blew my cap, twice, Funny enough my trial version runs sweet.

And shit like BF3 refusing to run single player untill it had downloading and installed 15GB's of shite and running/logging into origin.....fuck me dead.

[imdying]

I've got my main PC not only running into a 32" lcd as a main monitor but running a HDMI cable into my amp, which then feeds the video into a 55" LCD in the lounge.Pretty sweet deal, especially with a wireless kb/mouse, and the ability for someone to be watching a blu-ray on the main TV while I play games on the monitor, all running from the single source.

Secondary PC is running a projector with a wall sized display, an amp, a big fuck off set of speakers, and a recliner for me to kick back in style.

Of course, I also have an Xbox shrine in the lounge, Its how I keep my kids off the PC's....

Likewise, except I have it all running through a multizone AV receiver. Big screen, 1080p projector, PC, PS3, plus a number of other devices, all just a few clicks away (even the screen rolls down the wall by itself!). In Windows you just right click a song or movie and it plays to the currently selected screen, w00t!

[bogan]

DLNA is good for all that stuff. Can stream fullHD across the existing wirelss network, no need for super expensive long HDMI cables or fucking about with routing wires.

[Headbanger]

. In Windows you just right click a song or movie and it plays to the currently selected screen, w00t!

I've set mine up so windows media player defaults to the 55", VLC to the 32", So simple even Mrs Headbanger got it first time.

[imdying]

I don't fuck about with wires, I wired the whole thing up top to bottom with CAT6 when I moved in :D

[imdying]

I've set mine up so windows media player defaults to the 55", VLC to the 32", So simple even Mrs Headbanger got it first time.Good plan. My Mrs is smarter than me so I let her work out all the bells and whistles. So long as I can do it all the from the couch, I'm not too stressed!

[SMOKEU]

there's this shit called wireless, the blacks invented it in rotorua about the 1700s. look it up.


Is this wireless thing when some coons come up to your hose and thieve your wires for scrap metal?


cost enough in download cap.


Change to an ISP that doesn't charge extortion prices for small amounts of traffic then.

[imdying]

Change to an ISP that doesn't charge extortion prices for small amounts of traffic then.Are you getting 800GB or more every month? One of the prices you pay for that is on-peak GB are charged differently.

[SMOKEU]

Are you getting 800GB or more every month? One of the prices you pay for that is on-peak GB are charged differently.

I'm on a 300GB plan with Snap but data caps don't worry me since it's unmetered between 0100-0700 every day.

[imdying]

I'm on a 300GB plan with Snap but data caps don't worry me since it's unmetered between 0100-0700 every day.Yeah, well when you're hitting 800GB on a 40GB plan, you let me know... meanwhile, enjoy paying for that data.

[SMOKEU]

Yeah, well when you're hitting 800GB on a 40GB plan, you let me know... meanwhile, enjoy paying for that data.

A 300GB plan doesn't necessarily have to cost much more than a 40GB plan. It's just that most ISPs in NZ are a blatant con, but there are a few which have reasonable deals. The NZ public think that bandwidth is a very rare, precious resource which we must only use in moderation or it will run out. That's the excuse the ISPs have been using for years to rip ignorant fools off into paying exorbitant sums of money for plans with pathetically small data caps.

[Scuba_Steve]

But you can do that fine with a PC. Arguably much better too... you actually get 1080p from a PC in any game. PCs all have HDMI these days, so you just plug in a single cable and off it goes.

It's not the same as a console tho, console tends to be a "better experience", there's even a study out there to back it up (like going to the stadium vs watching on TV for sports)
Also some games lose what made them awesome when they "upgrade" silent hill is perfect case in point, that which made it scary is lost with enhanced GFX because they were playing to a limit & everything was built round that limit. Not everything is better "enhanced"


I don't fuck about with wires, I wired the whole thing up top to bottom with CAT6 when I moved in :D

Thats the way to do it :niceone:

[bogan]

It's not the same as a console tho, console tends to be a "better experience", there's even a study out there to back it up (like going to the stadium vs watching on TV for sports)
Also some games lose what made them awesome when they "upgrade" silent hill is perfect case in point, that which made it scary is lost with enhanced GFX because they were playing to a limit & everything was built round that limit. Not everything is better "enhanced"


Yeh I fucking love watching the crosshairs buzz all around the screen except onto the covenant's (halo enemies, not available on PC) heads, much better experience than actually being able to aim with a mouse. Where do you come up with this shit? :bleh:

[SMOKEU]

It's not the same as a console tho, console tends to be a "better experience", there's even a study out there to back it up (like going to the stadium vs watching on TV for sports)

I call bullshit. A PC can easily be connected to a TV via HDMI, and there are numerous gamepads available. MS has even released an XBOX360 kit for PC, which includes a wireless USB adapter and a normal XBOX360 controller connects to it. That can replicate the console experience quite nicely, but with the potential for much better graphics.

[Scuba_Steve]

Yeh I fucking love watching the crosshairs buzz all around the screen except onto the covenant's (halo enemies, not available on PC) heads, much better experience than actually being able to aim with a mouse. Where do you come up with this shit? :bleh:

So you suck at using a controller then I take it :Pokey:


I call bullshit. A PC can easily be connected to a TV via HDMI, and there are numerous gamepads available. MS has even released an XBOX360 kit for PC, which includes a wireless USB adapter and a normal XBOX360 controller connects to it. That can replicate the console experience quite nicely, but with the potential for much better graphics.

And a TV feed will show you more of the game then being at the stadium, but it's not the same is it?
I don't know what it is maybee like with silent hill it's the over "enhancing" of games that spoil it but it came out people had more fun playing consoles. People are also happier to watch someone play console than they are to watch someone play PC regardless of screen size (all tests were done on same screen & brainwaves monitored)

PC's can be good for the eyes tho, another study shows FPS games on PC can actually improve eye sight (so much for "you'll ruin your eyes") but the catch is, you must play on CRT

[steve_t]

PC's can be good for the eyes tho, another study shows FPS games on PC can actually improve eye sight (so much for "you'll ruin your eyes") but the catch is, you must play on CRT

Link to this study, please?

[bogan]

So you suck at using a controller then I take it :Pokey:



And a TV feed will show you more of the game then being at the stadium, but it's not the same is it?
I don't know what it is maybee like with silent hill it's the over "enhancing" of games that spoil it but it came out people had more fun playing consoles. People are also happier to watch someone play console than they are to watch someone play PC regardless of screen size (all tests were done on same screen & brainwaves monitored)

PC's can be good for the eyes tho, another study shows FPS games on PC can actually improve eye sight (so much for "you'll ruin your eyes") but the catch is, you must play on CRT

Is fine for racing games or rpg ones you don't need to aim (I use it on my computer as I prefer it for most of these) but FPS is way to difficult with rate aim control, so much so if I wanted to get into FPS on console I'd buy a mouse adapter for it (though these are tricky as a lot get caught by aimbot type detectors).

Not really an apt comparison, on one hand you have something on screen, the other is something irl; but in this case you have something on screen vs something on a higher definition screen with better graphics. Maybe TV vs Cinema is a better comparison?

[Headbanger]

It's not the same as a console tho, console tends to be a "better experience", there's even a study out there to back it up (like going to the stadium vs watching on TV for sports)
Also some games lose what made them awesome when they "upgrade" silent hill is perfect case in point, that which made it scary is lost with enhanced GFX because they were playing to a limit & everything was built round that limit. Not everything is better "enhanced"


Do you even believe your own bullshit?

Just for the record

enhanced-Intensify, increase, or further improve the quality, value, or extent of.

Even the English language is against you.

[Headbanger]

Is fine for racing games or

what?

Hell no, The only racing games that can compare across platforrms are the pure arcade titles, But only because the level of gameplay is set so low to accomodate the limitaions of a console and the target audience.

Anything with even a slight simulation bent is uncomparable, Not only due to the improved graphics,fps, and draw distance on the PC platform but also the amount of cpu work that goes into the physics.

And thats without even going into the control devices, which is like comparing a fork with a tower crane.

Thats not to say the likes of Forza and Gran Turismo aren't great games within their limitations, But the PC experience blows them away.

[Scuba_Steve]

Link to this study, please?

This isn't the one I was referencing but here's another study showing similar things
(http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2012/02/18/science-says-video-games-are-good-for-your-eyes.aspx)


Do you even believe your own bullshit?

Just for the record

enhanced-Intensify, increase, or further improve the quality, value, or extent of.

Even the English language is against you.

Sometimes with you I do believe Muldoon was right :facepalm:

[bogan]

what?


the xbox controller...

Fuckers don't make forza for the PC so I can't do much of a genre comparison.

[Scuba_Steve]

Thats not to say the likes of Forza and Gran Turismo aren't great games within their limitations, But the PC experience blows them away.

And what PC game is that then???


... Still waiting :wait:

[steve_t]

This isn't the one I was referencing but here's another study showing similar things
(http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2012/02/18/science-says-video-games-are-good-for-your-eyes.aspx)



Sometimes with you I do believe Muldoon was right :facepalm:

Oh yup. I was more interested in the "must be on CRT" part

[bogan]

And what PC game is that then???


... Still waiting :wait:

Need for... lol, that shit went downhill after the underground series, carbon I think had potential, but the last one had cutscenes when you had to do actions on foot ffs :facepalm:

The Dirt series are very good PC racing titles for PC, not much comparable in the road sims though.

[SMOKEU]

So you suck at using a controller then I take it :Pokey:



And a TV feed will show you more of the game then being at the stadium, but it's not the same is it?
I don't know what it is maybee like with silent hill it's the over "enhancing" of games that spoil it but it came out people had more fun playing consoles. People are also happier to watch someone play console than they are to watch someone play PC regardless of screen size (all tests were done on same screen & brainwaves monitored)

PC's can be good for the eyes tho, another study shows FPS games on PC can actually improve eye sight (so much for "you'll ruin your eyes") but the catch is, you must play on CRT

Again, I call bullshit. If you play the same game on a console vs a semi decent gaming computer (i7 with a 7850 or GTX660 or better) with a good 1080p monitor, the total experience is generally much better on the PC. Of course it's not fair to compare a 5 year old budget PC with a PS3/XBOX360, but I'm talking about a reasonably good computer.

For example, the console versions of BF3 have a much smaller player count and a smaller map size with significantly worse graphics than what you can get on a PC. A mate of mine has an XBOX360 with a 1080p TV, and he often comments how BF3 is much better on my 2 year old computer (which is nowhere near as good as a modern gaming rig).

I'm sure there are some games that are better on console than PC due to lazy programming and poor porting, but try a midrange gaming PC and compare that to a console. The PC wins almost every time.

[Scuba_Steve]

Oh yup. I was more interested in the "must be on CRT" part

Google can be really bad at finding studies... I can find the one referenced unfortunately, just many others saying FPS's improve eyesight.
But their explanation for it was the constant flickering of light keeps the eyes adjusting giving them a workout. They did however say LCD's were much better for you & your eyes if playing slow games or working

[Headbanger]

And what PC game is that then???


... Still waiting :wait:

ffs.

Take your pick, the scope is huge.

http://racesimcentral.com/
http://www.nogripracing.com/index.php
http://www.iracing.com/
http://ausfactor.com/

[Headbanger]

http://www.game-stockcar.com.br/en/index.html
http://www.rfactorcentral.com/
http://rfactor.net/web/rf2/
http://www.wrcthegame.com/
http://www.assettocorsa.net/?lang=en
http://game.raceroom.com/

[Headbanger]

the xbox controller...

Fuckers don't make forza for the PC so I can't do much of a genre comparison.

My bad, I was still on the platform discussion rather then the specific controllers.

I've got an Xbox controller for my PC, Used it for Mame, They are not even close to being usable on a precision racing game, No more then they are in a precision first person shooter.

[AllanB]

Meh, I can't keep up with my 10 year old on the PS3 so I won't be looking at upgrading anytime soon!

[SMOKEU]

My bad, I was still on the platform discussion rather then the specific controllers.

I've got an Xbox controller for my PC, Used it for Mame, They are not even close to being usable on a precision racing game, No more then they are in a precision first person shooter.

I still don't understand why people play FPS games with a console controller. It's just a complete waste of time. Mouse and keyboard FTW.

[Scuba_Steve]

I still don't understand why people play FPS games with a console controller. It's just a complete waste of time. Mouse and keyboard FTW.

because about the only game to allow keyboard/mouse on the console is UT3 (there is a couple others), so choice is fairly limited.

[steve_t]

I still don't understand why people play FPS games with a console controller. It's just a complete waste of time. Mouse and keyboard FTW.

Kinect style cameras will end those controllers

[Scuba_Steve]

Kinect style cameras will end those controllers

Mentioning Kinect, the camera part will have limited use for awhile yet I reckon. But rumours have it the mic will be integrated into the next xbox meaning we should see more voice features, used correctly it could make for some interesting & more immersive gaming

[Headbanger]

Personally I think the next logical step to take is to integrate the camera and microphone into the display, Then any system plugged into it can make use of it, and other apps can be run from the display itself such as video conferencing/Skype.

but then, I can also see consoles being integrated into the display unit as well, Making a worthy "smart tv" with a library of media and games delivered digitally.

I can't see cameras taking away the need for controllers entirely though, But that's for the kids to decide.

[bogan]

But that's for the kids to decide.

and perhaps a foregone conclusion if we let the fat ones decide :shutup:

[Scuba_Steve]

2013 should be an interesting year...
We should start to see if the WiiU s going anywhere
Possibility of PS4 & Xbox [next] releasing
Ouya releasing
SteamBox hitting stores

Not 100% that the latter 2 are actually filling a gap, seems they're more trying to create a gap to fill. Gonna be interesting to see what they do anyways.
Ouya appears to be catering to the casual gamer with a very low entry point, but with the way TV's are going lately I could actually see them being absorbed or licensed to TV manufactures to become one with the TV.

[imdying]

It's not the same as a console tho, console tends to be a "better experience", there's even a study out there to back it up (like going to the stadium vs watching on TV for sports)
Also some games lose what made them awesome when they "upgrade" silent hill is perfect case in point, that which made it scary is lost with enhanced GFX because they were playing to a limit & everything was built round that limit. Not everything is better "enhanced"I know what you're talking about, even if it seems counter-intuitive to some. Two other examples in the same vein are animated figures and robots. The more human-like we try to make either of those, the more they stand out as not being human at all. I'm not sure I agree with what that study found as it is counter to my own experience, but I expect inside the context of their study it worked out (maybe party gaming?).

Headbanger show us some pics of your racing sim. I ditched my G25, and I'm looking for one of those 'uprated' controllers to bolt a Momo too. Fanatec?

[imdying]

I agree on the mouse/controller thing though... there is no comparison, a mouse is the only way to play an FPS. Aim assist etc just destroy gaming. Halo I've never understood... it's just second rate crap. If it wasn't the best of a bad breed (i.e. controller based FPS for children) it wouldn't be as popular as it is IMO.

[bogan]

Halo I've never understood... it's just second rate crap. If it wasn't the best of a bad breed (i.e. controller based FPS for children) it wouldn't be as popular as it is IMO.

Yeh, but its a sci-fi epic (easy sale to me!), the gameplay (apart from ODST) is good console fps, but as you say, doesn't keep up with PC shooters.

[Scuba_Steve]

Halo I've never understood... it's just second rate crap. If it wasn't the best of a bad breed (i.e. controller based FPS for children) it wouldn't be as popular as it is IMO.

It's not the best of anything, it's popularity comes about through "fun" factor. The same way COD shot to the top, they're both arcade'y fun to play games not to be taken seriously.

[Headbanger]

Headbanger show us some pics of your racing sim. I ditched my G25, and I'm looking for one of those 'uprated' controllers to bolt a Momo too. Fanatec?

hmmm....I'm running a G27, and its merely bolted to a desk and plonked in front of a projector screen. Not really photo material.

[imdying]

Fair enough. That was my next choice, but my momo is soon to become redundant, and it's unlikely that I'll replace my current car with one without an airbag wheel, so I was hoping to repurpose it as a sim wheel.

[Headbanger]

I know what you're talking about, even if it seems counter-intuitive to some.

Meh, he used Silent Hill as his example, A game series that received overall positive reviews with special mention of the graphical advancement made with each release and generation of hardware.

The vast majority of people liked what they saw, The series was enhanced with the better technology. Suggesting that they should have built each game to the limitations of the PS1 is delusional.

The one big mis-step, a port to PC of one of the later titles without updating the textures or the control system. That I'm afraid is lack of enhancement, and rather then supporting a really dumb statement it just high lights the fact that we have to at times put up with some shitty low end console ports.

[imdying]

Porting can be tricky. For example, the texture sizes on a 360 are twice the size (dimensionally) of a PC (or PS3 as I understand it). Now that makes it sound like the 360 has better texture support, and technically they do, but the execution isn't the same so they're never actually used in that way. So when you port it from 360 to a PC, there can be quite a bit of art rework to do, as the alternative is to just reduce the texture size to suit the PC, which will make it actually look worse and waste all the extra power the PC has. Now that seems like a simple decision, but it doesn't account for release dates and how much money will it make them. There is a whole lot of little stuff like that which creates impediments in the porting process, which is one of the reasons why they're amalgamating their tools further and further, and thus hopefully the alignment of the PC and XBox software products.

Unfortunately, the effect of being slaved to a generic controller is well known, and the dumbing down of games is a direct result of that, and one of the key reasons why console games are more or less crap. In past iterations of consoles that has never been much of a problem as the target markets have been more or less separate.

If you accept that console gaming has basically dumbed down gaming, and stripped it of depth and quality, then I have bad news for you... it's going to get worse before it gets better, assuming it even does. Even once the devs get their filthy mitts on the next generation hardware, there's a gap of a few years whilst they work out the best way to eek maximum performance out of them... not only that, but you have a market that will quite happily buy simplified games such as Black Ops etc. To a PC gamer, such games are repugnant as they have been exposed to what can really be done when you're not tied to the generic controller medium and lack of RAM, but that's where the money is.

Battlefield is a good example of how badly console gaming can hurt PC gaming... BF3 is utter tosh when compared to something like even Desert Combat, which should be so inferior in every regard as not to be funny. Really, to call BF3 a 'Battlefield' game is almost insulting to the original developers at DICE... it's now just scripted rubbish console fodder and nothing else.

[imdying]

On occasions, consoles hit a home run... Golden Eye on the N64 makes a mockery of the rule that FPS' on consoles are crap. Ok that's not to say it wouldn't be better on a PC, but she's not bad for what she is.

[Headbanger]

Personally I consider the steam box will have an additional negative effect on PC gaming, As it will replicate what has happened with consoles. Game developers will build down to meet a lower level rather then use the capabilities inherent in the structure of the platform.

But now we won't even have bad ports, we will simply have bad pc games. Purpose built to run on shitty hardware.And even worse as steam is a starting point for a lot of smaller game devs with their green light system. they won't be able to strive to impress the high-end niche market and make a name for themselves.

[Headbanger]

I'm on my third xbox 360, and I have a half dozen other systems locked away in storage. Including an n64....

Anyway

I consider that its the perfect platform for some games, Burnout Paradise, Fight Night Champion for example, and my sons have a shitload of spiderman and lego games. I played the shit out of Forza 3, fuel and Pure, throw in a couple nfs games, Star wars unleashed, MX vs ATV....

damn, we have piles of games, And I paid for em all.:facepalm:


Good thing I threw out that pile of plastic guitars, drum kit and microphone....That shit will fuck you up.

[imdying]

Consoles definitely have the party (3-4 player) gaming sewn up... definitely one good use for a console controller!

[Headbanger]

This is an old pic of my projector setup, The wheel was mounted on an extending arm designed to hold a crt monitor, I had it bolted to a coffee table. Simply sit down in the lazyboy and then drag the wheel to any place and height that suits.

Now Im in a rental I don't have a permanent setup, in fact the powered projector screen I bought off ebay turned out to be so big I had to disasemble it,throw away the motorised component and cut the fabric down in size. Next purchase is a Full HD 3d projector and a video card to match.

277906

[Headbanger]

fuck, I can see the arse end of my speed triple in that pic.:mellow:

[Scuba_Steve]

If you accept that console gaming has basically dumbed down gaming, and stripped it of depth and quality, then I have bad news for you... it's going to get worse before it gets better, assuming it even does. Even once the devs get their filthy mitts on the next generation hardware, there's a gap of a few years whilst they work out the best way to eek maximum performance out of them... not only that, but you have a market that will quite happily buy simplified games such as Black Ops etc. To a PC gamer, such games are repugnant as they have been exposed to what can really be done when you're not tied to the generic controller medium and lack of RAM, but that's where the money is.

Battlefield is a good example of how badly console gaming can hurt PC gaming... BF3 is utter tosh when compared to something like even Desert Combat, which should be so inferior in every regard as not to be funny. Really, to call BF3 a 'Battlefield' game is almost insulting to the original developers at DICE... it's now just scripted rubbish console fodder and nothing else.

But consoles haven't "dumbed down" gaming at all, the publishers are the ones "dumbing down" gaming. We've got to a point where publishers think all games can be for everyone (all in the name of $$$ of-course) so all games must be made "accessible" to all. This is a result of "casual gamers" NOT console gamers, casual gamers are fast becoming the largest gaming community & publishers want to cash in as much as possible even if that means "selling out" & unfortunitly Devs don't get a choice.

Think you should check up on your BF3 talk, BF3 was built from ground for PC & ported to console

“Most games are actually still based on the same core idea that the consoles are your focus, the superior platform or something,” he said. “I don’t know why. That was the truth five years ago, but the world has moved on. PCs are way more powerful than the consoles today and there are actually almost zero games out there that actually use the benefits of this.

“So for our target of what we want to hit, we are now using the more powerful platform to try and prove what we see gaming being in the future rather than using the lowest common denominator, instead of developing it for the consoles and then just adding higher resolution textures and anti-aliasing for the PC version. We’re doing it the other way around, we start with the highest-end technology that we can come up with and then scale it back to the consoles.”

[bogan]

meh, 18 days and we will see what PC gfx are capable of; and we will probably see what our PC gfx are not capable of too :pinch:

http://s.pro-gmedia.com/videogamer/media/images/xbox360/crysis_3/screens/crysis_3_21.jpg

Point being, games that really pushed the mainstream to upper teir GFX range used to be the rule, now they are the exception.

[Headbanger]

Crysis 3 I assume?

I haven't got to Farcry 3 yet.


For some reason after running out of things to do I went back and started Skyrim from the beginning again....

[bogan]

Crysis 3 I assume?

I haven't got to Farcry 3 yet.


For some reason after running out of things to do I went back and started Skyrim from the beginning again....

haha, yeh that'll happen. Yes Crysis 3, hope its not the disappointment C2 was; though that's only due to comparing it to the original. FC3 has a fucked up storyline, but solid gameplay and graphics.

Does it show anything about the Console demographic, that we have talked more about PC games (despite having a thread for that already) than console ones? :lol:

[imdying]

But consoles haven't "dumbed down" gaming at all, the publishers are the ones "dumbing down" gaming. We've got to a point where publishers think all games can be for everyone (all in the name of $$$ of-course) so all games must be made "accessible" to all. This is a result of "casual gamers" NOT console gamers, casual gamers are fast becoming the largest gaming community & publishers want to cash in as much as possible even if that means "selling out" & unfortunitly Devs don't get a choice.Yep, follow the money... Of course, the rise of the casual gamer is a direct result of the availability of consoles, and now mobile phones.


Think you should check up on your BF3 talk, BF3 was built from ground for PC & ported to consoleIt was built on the PC with consoles in mind and then ported. That's the key... and I don't blame them... follow the money is just good business.


meh, 18 days and we will see what PC gfx are capable of; and we will probably see what our PC gfx are not capable of too :pinch:Minor problem, more power is only a quick trip to the shops away :D


Crysis 3 I assume?

I haven't got to Farcry 3 yet.At this point, don't bother, just wait the three weeks.

[bogan]

Minor problem, more power is only a quick trip to the shops away :D

yeh but the GFX card I have now cost as much as the new PS4 is likely too (see, we're still on topic :D), so I can't afford another one quite yet (though C3 is developed with SLI optimization). Especially since it offers no benefit to the main game I play, planetside 2 (does not even have multiple CPU thread optimization). Though it is on the buy list for work, as being able to develop dual GPU programs would be handy.

[imdying]

Sucks to be poor! :laugh:

To be honest, I'll just cope with whatever performance I get, I don't really care about gaming that much... maybe in the winter :)

[Scuba_Steve]

Yep, follow the money... Of course, the rise of the casual gamer is a direct result of the availability of consoles, and now mobile phones.
.

PC's are further up the casual gamer ladder than consoles, thanks to facebook games, farmville, crime scene investigator, mafia wars, bejewled & the likes. But mobile gaming is leading the casual gamer charge.

[bogan]

Sucks to be poor! :laugh:

To be honest, I'll just cope with whatever performance I get, I don't really care about gaming that much... maybe in the winter :)

Meh, I'm a glass (and in this case PCIE3 slots) half full guy, if I have one $900 card, it doesn't suck that much :woohoo:

I'll do the same I think, turn the settings right up and go oooohhhh pretty, then turn them down until I get a playable frame rate.

[Scuba_Steve]

latest rumors for the next xbox aint good...

the next Xbox will have an improved Kinect and an always-on internet connection to cut out the second-hand game market from the platform.

PC gamers for years have hated this kinda DRM douchebagary & MS is [supposedly] wanting to bring it to their console for all games. I can tell u which next gen console I won't even take a second glance at if they do.

[Headbanger]

I'm quite happy not to buy a "next generation" console, If anything I consider the so called extended cycle of the current crop has been good for the consumer, and the crap about requiring an always on connection (my xbox only ever goes online to purchase Trials games and DLC) is enough for me not to bother.

However, this seems to be the minority view, With PC games their is generally an outcry when invasive DRM is used and then instead of a backlash in sales..well Diablo 3 has sold 8 million.

http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/05/23/diablo-3-sells-6-3-million-3-5-million-in-first-day/


i was looking foward to the new Sim City untill DRM reared its ugly head.

http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/12/20/maxis-explains-the-use-of-simcity-always-online-drm/

http://savegameonline.com/c3-features/extensive-drm-restrictions-hurt-simcity

I won't buy it, it will sell millions, and the same shit will be integrated into further titles.

My other concern regarding consoles is the rumors of registering a game to a machine in order to kill off the second hand game market.

[Scuba_Steve]

However, this seems to be the minority view, With PC games their is generally an outcry when invasive DRM is used and then instead of a backlash in sales..well Diablo 3 has sold 8 million.

i was looking foward to the new Sim City untill DRM reared its ugly head.

I won't buy it, it will sell millions, and the same shit will be integrated into further titles.

My other concern regarding consoles is the rumors of registering a game to a machine in order to kill off the second hand game market.

PC gamers are the best at bitching no-doubt, & that bitching never translates to sales

I'm with you on Sim City, excited about it but upon hearing about DRM have sorta decided I'll wait a bit then offer to backup some other guys copy for him you know sorta round the time they managed to circumvent the DRM

Can't say the 2nd hand market affect me too much, I don't buy 2nd hand. But even tho I don't do 2nd hand, knowing how "reliable" DRM tends to be I can only see it fucking over the end user like always (hell DRM was the primary reason the old SNES cartridges were so temperamental)

If all the rumors round regrading "next gen" have substance to them, it's gonna be bad for all gamers PC & Console alike in fact more-so for PC because rumor says MS want to push them to xbox eventually & kill Windows gaming

... Linux to the rescue!

[Headbanger]

Yes well, The initial thrust of the first Xbox was meant to move games from PC to console (MS going as far as to shut down their own in house PC game development and kill off their line of PC game controllers), and while it did initially hit the numbers quite hard PC gaming is bigger then ever, as usual the people decide what suits them in the end, even with the massive loss taken by MS and Sony to move their hardware and expand their platform. I pretty sure MS are well aware that gaming is one of the major reasons people pick Windows over the competition.

Everything that MS primed the xbox to be as instead born fruit on the PC.

As for Simcity, the entire engine is built around the DRM and a live connection, It will be interesting to see if they do crack it, and if not we can expect a lot more games built around the technology.

Still, the people will decide, and it seems most of them are quite happy for their games to phone home.

I can see consoles dieing (Either by stock box PC's or being intergrated into the television) before PC games, and while I don't have the numbers on hand I did read that nvidia alone sell more game capable grapic chipsets yearly then the combined sales of consoles.

Its pretty obvious that the current model for consoles is a dead end, The massive losses, extended development cycle, attack on the used games market,and the low end hardware of the "next generation" says it all.

[SMOKEU]

Battlefield is a good example of how badly console gaming can hurt PC gaming... BF3 is utter tosh when compared to something like even Desert Combat, which should be so inferior in every regard as not to be funny. Really, to call BF3 a 'Battlefield' game is almost insulting to the original developers at DICE... it's now just scripted rubbish console fodder and nothing else.

Blasphemy! BF3 is the best FPS game evar!!!11

[Scuba_Steve]

I can see consoles dieing (Either by stock box PC's or being intergrated into the television) before PC games, and while I don't have the numbers on hand I did read that nvidia alone sell more game capable grapic chipsets yearly then the combined sales of consoles.

Its pretty obvious that the current model for consoles is a dead end, The massive losses, extended development cycle, attack on the used games market,and the low end hardware of the "next generation" says it all.


Gaming PC's are like records they'll always be round but will effectively become dead to all those not dedicated to them IMO, biggest threat to them is this new "cloud gaming" systems which even nvidia has moved to cash in on, followed by MS themselves.
I think gaming console will see a longer life than gaming PC's but I expect to also see a big rise in handhelds in the near future too, I think we've only got a gen or 2 before handhelds take the crown from home consoles as king

[bogan]

Gaming PC's are like records they'll always be round but will effectively become dead to all those not dedicated to them IMO, biggest threat to them is this new "cloud gaming" systems which even nvidia has moved to cash in on, followed by MS themselves.
I think gaming console will see a longer life than gaming PC's but I expect to also see a big rise in handhelds in the near future too, I think we've only got a gen or 2 before handhelds take the crown from home consoles as king

Cloud gaming is a long way off, and doesn't make sense to me anyway, why shift all the code execution away from the client PC, just putting extra load on the servers for the sake of DRM, and I'd bet at the expense of the user experience. Gaming PCs will always be around, until the lines between them and consoles are blurred out of existence. Its the way all electronics are going, TVs that can browse the internet, cellphone that you can watch movies on, laptops with a cell connection, consoles with media centers, computers with steam accounts and validation like the xbox live. How long until the hardware and DRM means you can just run anything on anything?

[Headbanger]

Granted everything gets superseded or reaches a dead end at some point, but 89 million PC's shipped last year.

As long as PC's exist, PC games will also. And no matter how you want to slice up the numbers (low end, high end, casual, whatever) they are the single biggest platform for gaming and are being used by 100's of millions of people, all without any companies having to lose 100's of millions to sustain the platform. 8 million sales of a single game demonstrates the folly of repeating the steam hardware survey.

[Scuba_Steve]

Cloud gaming is a long way off, and doesn't make sense to me anyway, why shift all the code execution away from the client PC, just putting extra load on the servers for the sake of DRM, and I'd bet at the expense of the user experience. Gaming PCs will always be around, until the lines between them and consoles are blurred out of existence. Its the way all electronics are going, TVs that can browse the internet, cellphone that you can watch movies on, laptops with a cell connection, consoles with media centers, computers with steam accounts and validation like the xbox live. How long until the hardware and DRM means you can just run anything on anything?

Cloud gaming's closer than you think, I expect it to be pretty common by 2020. The fact nvidia's started creating HW specifically for this area shows they think there's something to it too.
Currently OnLive has a $9.99 USD/mth deal at that price it's quite an attractive platform for many.
it's DRM for the publishers but convenience & savings for the end user. It allows people to play modern games at 2500$ gaming PC GFX on a 10yr old 200$ PC provided you have a 2Mbit interweb connection it's possibly a win win for both sides given that more & more games require always on interwebs anyways.

[bogan]

It allows people to play modern games at 2500$ gaming PC GFX on a 10yr old 200$ PC provided you have a 2Mbit interweb connection it's possibly a win win for both sides given that more & more games require always on interwebs anyways.

Got a link for those figures? Sounds a bit too good to be true.

[Headbanger]

It allows people to play modern games at 2500$ gaming PC GFX on a 10yr old 200$ PC provided you have a 2Mbit interweb connection


Even those championing games run from the "cloud" didn't believe anyone is that silly

http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/129440-cloud-gaming-is-the-future

From the above link



While no one is ever going to claim that the OnLive experience is as good as glorious can’t-hear-yourself-think-over-the-GPU-fan desktop and console gaming, for many gamers it is good enough. For hardcore gamers, OnLive’s 150-250ms latency and 720p resolution is akin to gouging your eyes out

And Nintendo dont agree with you at all, but what would they know?

http://au.gamespot.com/news/cloud-gaming-not-the-future-says-nintendo-6403414


Still, who knows?, Not me. The kids will decide the future.

[Headbanger]

Ouch



Cloud gaming service OnLive this week entered a form of bankruptcy (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2408632,00.asp) and layed off "over half" of its employees. The usual internet kerfuffle broke out, with accusations flying in all directions, as employees discovered that receiving company shares isn't much of a benefit if that company is broke and will never reach the IPO. During the explanations some interesting numbers emerged, like the company having 2 millions registered users and 8,000 servers (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2408632,00.asp), but people actually playing were only between 800 and 1,800 depending on the time of day.

Recent reviews (http://www.criticalgamer.co.uk/2012/02/22/onlive-review/) suggest that this might be due to OnLive only working well if you have a very good broadband connection to the internet of over 5 Mbps. Personally, I live in a densely populated country and have 30 Mbps VDSL (a technology in which broadband speed is not shared, thus doesn't diminish at peak time); but many people either have slower internet, or have cable internet, where your speed goes down when your neighbor starts surfing the internet. Other concerns cited by various reviewers were a limited library of games, and newer games being somewhat expensive. On the plus side the service enabled you to play PC games on a dedicated $99 microconsole, your iPad, your Mac, or even your smartphone.

http://tobolds.blogspot.com.au/2012/08/is-cloud-gaming-dead-or-onlive.html

[Scuba_Steve]

Got a link for those figures? Sounds a bit too good to be true.

nope thats sorta a "out of thin air" figures given the hype surrounding the service & the fact they were running crysis at max settings on 1st gen ipad when they where 1st showing themselves off
Best I can find is most games are 720p 60fps & you need a dual core CPU & 256MB GFX card capable of pixel shaders 2.0
There's footage of Gaikai running on Samsung smart TV's out there too incl witcher 2

[bogan]

nope thats sorta a "out of thin air" figures

thats alright, headbanger found some relevant ones...

[imdying]

It allows people to play modern games at 2500$ gaming PC GFX on a 10yr old 200$ PC provided you have a 2Mbit interweb connectionEven if you ignore latency issues, that is physically impossible. 1920 x 1080 x 24bit x 60fps is not going to fit down a 2mbit pipe, even if that pipe was constant rate and flawless, which it never ever can be. Sure you could super compress the arse out of it, but it won't be enough, and a 10 year old $200 PC isn't going to handle that. Then there's latency... it's already bad enough, and adding more processing to the pipeline is only going to make that significantly worse. Fine if you're playing Farmville or Civ 5 I suppose, but even in an RTS you'd notice it. Even if the average pipe here was 3 times fatter (which would take us up around 30mbps), that does not improve latency.

Samsung Smart TVs are utter shite... probably a fabulous example of why cloud computing rapes your customer experience :laugh:



I had another think about it the other night Steve; I think it would be safe to say that consoles have been good at injecting bigger money into gaming. Then I realised that no matter how I tried to spin that into a positive, all it really gave us was more douche baggery and lowest common denominator bullshit :(


/edit: It could be interesting if Sony put a 'PSCloud' box into evey local FTTD exchange, that would about all that could be done though, you can't cheat time.

[Headbanger]

I went away and contemplated the concept of "cloud" gaming, and the only conclusion I kept coming back to is its completely fucked in the head.

Clearly the cost of infrastructure can not be recouped, Even when working its a huge waste of resources, and it delivers a sub-standard gaming experience, which you can already get on the console of your choice, and the cost is higher then the shelf price of the games available.

So clearly doomed to fail no matter how much money is thrown at it, I wouldn't be surprised if Jenny Shipley is sitting on the board of directors.

[imdying]

The Sims 3 makes mega bucks, and it's not really latency sensitive, so that's an example of cloud gaming that would work.

But you know, I don't want shitty hardware defining what games we get. Cloud gaming would ruin everything from racing sims to first person shooters, as it's all compromise all the time. GTA4, can't go inside many buildings (not enough memory), GT5, only 16 cars on the track at once (not enough memory so they chose 'pretty' over it), first person shooters are retarded on consoles because they refuse to let you plug your mouse in.

Consoles are nothing but compromise after compromise so they can be cheap, and the gaming experience be damned. It's that desire to make as money as possible that will see your gaming raped and a cloud based service rammed up your anus some time soon. Sad but true.

[Scuba_Steve]

Even if you ignore latency issues, that is physically impossible. 1920 x 1080 x 24bit x 60fps is not going to fit down a 2mbit pipe, even if that pipe was constant rate and flawless, which it never ever can be. Sure you could super compress the arse out of it, but it won't be enough, and a 10 year old $200 PC isn't going to handle that. Then there's latency... it's already bad enough, and adding more processing to the pipeline is only going to make that significantly worse. Fine if you're playing Farmville or Civ 5 I suppose, but even in an RTS you'd notice it. Even if the average pipe here was 3 times fatter (which would take us up around 30mbps), that does not improve latency.

They're technically streaming you a movie not a game, as for latency nvidia's grid is promising latency on par with consoles (for anyone not aware wireless controllers have latency)
As for the 10yr old 200$ PC I should clarify I didn't mean 200$ 10yrs ago I meant a 10yr old PC worth 200$ today



I had another think about it the other night Steve; I think it would be safe to say that consoles have been good at injecting bigger money into gaming. Then I realised that no matter how I tried to spin that into a positive, all it really gave us was more douche baggery and lowest common denominator bullshit :(


Im not sure I get you there?


I went away and contemplated the concept of "cloud" gaming, and the only conclusion I kept coming back to is its completely fucked in the head.

Clearly the cost of infrastructure can not be recouped, Even when working its a huge waste of resources, and it delivers a sub-standard gaming experience, which you can already get on the console of your choice, and the cost is higher then the shelf price of the games available.

So clearly doomed to fail no matter how much money is thrown at it, I wouldn't be surprised if Jenny Shipley is sitting on the board of directors.

most PC gamers already have a "sub-standard" gaming experience at a much higher cost & restricted to 1 machine.
As for the infrastructure "doomed to fail" only time will tell, but while OnLive has already stumbled (as you pointed out) someone saw fit to bail them out, but also Gaikai is doing quite well for itself, tho their offering is much more broad & comes with additional revenue streams, it's not reliant just on gamers for income

[imdying]

They're technically streaming you a movie not a game, as for latency nvidia's grid is promising latency on par with consolesWhich isn't physically possible. Controller => Console => router => exchange => lots of hops go here => cloud => processing => and then back again. That's how many milliseconds (or even seconds) again? Nvidia are pretty tops technically, but they canny break the laws of physics captain!

/edit: There are some very interesting articles on the web about latency and hiding it in normal LAN/internet situations, written by people such as Carmark, worth having a read of. That's all 'happy days' scenarios too... your mum watches a kitten on youtube... there's your streamed game fucked.


most PC gamers already have a "sub-standard" gaming experience at a much higher cost & restricted to 1 machine.The experience they get is their choice, which is the way it should be. Cost is a strawman; the things you can do with the PC when you're done gaming are limitless and well worth the price of entry.

[Headbanger]

Consoles are nothing but compromise after compromise so they can be cheap, and the gaming experience be damned.

Ain't it crazy then that their losses are in the hundreds of millions of dollars?

Pretty sure the last article I read on gamespot the other day claimed the xbox had only just had its first year of breaking even........

They would be better off giving away video cards (7770 would be fine for the masses) and shifting their titles to the the PC

[Headbanger]

the things you can do with the PC when you're done gaming are limitless and well worth the price of entry.

Funny how this is always ignored by the other side of the discussion, I mentioned it earlier, the only difference beteen a good PC and a good gaming rig is the fitting of a suitable video card.

Sure, that doesn't include the top end gaming rigs, But a smart buyer will still have purchased a system with quality internal components and fantastic abilities for an excellent price that will last them for years, And all the dipshits go to Harvey Normans or dell and buy over priced low quality shit thats good for fuck all.

Then they see a console in action and wet themselves.

[imdying]

Ain t it crazy then that their losses are in the hundreds of millions of dollars?Don't be deceived, they use the model for hardware on purpose. Looking at the big picture, they make them plenty of dollars.

[Headbanger]

Don't be deceived, they use the model for hardware on purpose. Looking at the big picture, they make them plenty of dollars.

They are still losing money on the hardware, They only way they turn a dollar is to offset the software and lisencing against the hardware loss.

When they say they broke even, thats the entire division.

Granted they all speak with forked tongues, But if their is gain to be made by having their level of sucking published I don't know what it is.

[imdying]

No I think Microsoft broken even with the XBox a three or four years ago. Besides, you can't ignore the value of the brand.

[Headbanger]

This was the article/video, Granted there are no specific dates, and its almost a fluff piece.

http://au.ign.com/articles/2013/02/06/why-microsoft-got-into-the-console-business

[bogan]

Which isn't physically possible. Controller => Console => router => exchange => lots of hops go here => cloud => processing => and then back again. That's how many milliseconds (or even seconds) again? Nvidia are pretty tops technically, but they canny break the laws of physics captain!

Funnily enough, some online games are actually moving the other way to deal with latency. Planetside 2 has the client system models movements and actions from all players, and in the case of a hit, the client uploads the damage done; as opposed to the client uploading where their bullets are shot at, and the server figuring out if it does any damage (got no link to that data, but the user experience suggests that is how it is done, and that it works brilliantly but is very cpu intensive).

[Headbanger]

um....ok, I'd be happy with a billion per annum.

Microsoft Xbox No Longer A Money Pit, Now Making A Billion Annually

http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-01-28/tech/30063548_1_xbox-live-money-pit-kinect

seems the Kinect made some waves.


Estimated losses to date are 5.5 billion, Lmfao. So they need to sustain this for the next 6 years to really "break even".

[imdying]

Funnily enough, some online games are actually moving the other way to deal with latency. Planetside 2 has the client system models movements and actions from all players, and in the case of a hit, the client uploads the damage done; as opposed to the client uploading where their bullets are shot at, and the server figuring out if it does any damage (got no link to that data, but the user experience suggests that is how it is done, and that it works brilliantly but is very cpu intensive).Gee, that doesn't sound open to abuse now does it!



um....ok, I'd be happy with a billion per annum.

Microsoft Xbox No Longer A Money Pit, Now Making A Billion Annually

http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-01-28/tech/30063548_1_xbox-live-money-pit-kinect

seems the Kinect made some waves.


Estimated losses to date are 5.5 billion, Lmfao. So they need to sustain this for the next 6 years to really "break even".Yep, and they will, but even they don't it was money well spent to keep Sony in check :)

[bogan]

Gee, that doesn't sound open to abuse now does it!

Surprisingly it doesn't seem to be, they do client side file checks and boot you if any of them are modified; so far I've only been aimbot'd once, seen a large number of vehicle speedhacking, and a few invincible ones.

Regardless it shows that cloud gaming, or consoles won't be taking over anytime soon!

[Headbanger]

Yep, and they will, but even they don't it was money well spent to keep Sony in check :)

We will see, The landscape is going to change massivly with the new hardware coming out, Manufacturing costs will be different, The established market could shift anywhere, There are multiple unknown factors including world markets and design decisions.

Personally I don't consider it possible to maintain that income for much longer.

[Scuba_Steve]

Ain't it crazy then that their losses are in the hundreds of millions of dollars?

Pretty sure the last article I read on gamespot the other day claimed the xbox had only just had its first year of breaking even........

They would be better off giving away video cards (7770 would be fine for the masses) and shifting their titles to the the PC

Xbox division went "black" long ago, but they did have a $1bil fuckup with RROD
They all make $$$ of licencing not the HW (at-first), they all go "black" eventually & Nintendo this gen never went "red" so they were making double cash moneys from the start.
Windows 8 is set to have a licencing system too, cause obviously MS know how much cash moneys is to be made through such a system. So like I said don't expect the Windows gaming to continue as freely as it has, expect Linux to rise I reckon.

[imdying]

Linux? Without looking, I assume they occupy 1% of the desktop market still, like they have forever? She's a white elephant (in that context) that one. If we had a dollar for every time Linux had been tipped to be on the rise, we could all afford a copy of Windows :D

[Headbanger]

Xbox division went "black" long ago, .

By that you mean to say 6 years in the future providing incoming and outgoes stay on the same trajectory?

Or is that if you pretend the 5.5billion dollar loss doesn't exist?

[Headbanger]

Linux is a non-event, They haven't managed to capitalise on their strengths or the weaknesses of other platforms, after 2 decades of being championed and almost unlimited resources, they haven't advanced their cause at all.

If any new development makes headway, It may be based on Linux (android is an example) but it won't be packaged nor marketed as such, and I'd say it will be a stock box product.

[Headbanger]

Windows 8 is set to have a licencing system too, cause obviously MS know how much cash moneys is to be made through such a system. So like I said don't expect the Windows gaming to continue as freely as it has,

This might be silly as you haven't yet backed up anything that you have stated in this thread (and I'm pretty sure everything that has been contested has proven to be a load of rubbish) but do you by any chance have a link to something relevant or are you capable of expanding on that particular snippet?

[SMOKEU]

I think Linux will become much more popular in the coming years, as it's only been in the past few years that it's had a very nice, easy to use GUI (obviously it depends on the distro) and is no longer this very difficult to use OS that needs the CLI to do everything, or almost everything. The software support is getting better now, and Linux can easily replace Windows for the "average" person who just wants to surf the internet, VOIP, and do light office type work.

If more people start using it as an ordinary desktop OS then maybe the game developers will start to take notice. Maybe.

[Scuba_Steve]

Linux? Without looking, I assume they occupy 1% of the desktop market still, like they have forever? She's a white elephant (in that context) that one. If we had a dollar for every time Linux had been tipped to be on the rise, we could all afford a copy of Windows :D

Linux offers better FPS than Windows, Steam has started inroads others are currently running financial viability studies. Linux has always been on the rise, will this see it skyrocket? guess that depends on whether MS goes through with their plans



This might be silly as you haven't yet backed up anything that you have stated in this thread (and I'm pretty sure everything that has been contested has proven to be a load of rubbish) but do you by any chance have a link to something relevant or are you capable of expanding on that particular snippet?

"If Windows 8 succeeds we will have something worse than Apple on our hands. Another walled garden. It will be a safer place for consumers but a less exciting place for gamers. All Windows 8 apps will have to conform to guidelines and undergo a rigorous Apple-like certification process. The Windows 8 strategy is really the gentrification of the edgy but seedy part of technology land that grew out of the openess that was DOS and the IBM PC."

Have some links
link 1 (http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20121018/08270420750/windows-8s-arbitrary-app-certification-rules-could-block-skyrim-other-huge-games.shtml)
Link 2 (http://gamasutra.com/view/feature/179420/the_next_twenty_years_what_.php)

How have you not heard about MS's plans to restrict? at this stage it's restricted to just the Metro interface, but do you really expect MS to keep the desktop round???
I'm sure alot thought they'd keep DOS round too

[bogan]

Linux offers better FPS than Windows, Steam has started inroads others are currently running financial viability studies. Linux has always been on the rise, will this see it skyrocket? guess that depends on whether MS goes through with their plans

I think you mean has the potential to offer better fps than windows, shit doesn't run on linux, that counts as no fps.



How have you not heard about MS's plans to restrict? at this stage it's restricted to just the Metro interface, but do you really expect MS to keep the desktop round???
I'm sure alot thought they'd keep DOS round too

Meh, the sky is not falling yet, and unless they want to dick around their customers and force them to other platforms, I don't see it ever falling.

[Scuba_Steve]

Meh, the sky is not falling yet, and unless they want to dick around their customers and force them to other platforms, I don't see it ever falling.

Not familiar with MS's methods then ay? MS has almost never cared about the end user, they're in it for the moneys & the moneys only! till they get some competition they'll continue to screw their customers without care. Such is their business model.
Besides have you not seen who's in-charge lately? crazy man Balmer isn't the brightest of the bunch

[bogan]

Not familiar with MS's methods then ay? MS has almost never cared about the end user, they're in it for the moneys & the moneys only! till they get some competition they'll continue to screw their customers without care. Such is their business model.
Besides have you not seen who's in-charge lately? crazy man Balmer isn't the brightest of the bunch

:facepalm: And if they are in it for the money, do you think they will want to drive their customer to other OSs?

[SMOKEU]

I think you mean has the potential to offer better fps than windows, shit doesn't run on linux, that counts as no fps.


Unless you count WINE, in which case you suffer a major FPS decrease compared to native Windows.

[Scuba_Steve]

:facepalm: And if they are in it for the money, do you think they will want to drive their customer to other OSs?

The biggest customer push for Mac was Vista

[bogan]

The biggest customer push for Mac was Vista

Ah yes, so that would be the 2004 version then? http://mashable.com/2012/07/03/mac-vs-pc-sales/

[Headbanger]

Have some links
link 1 (http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20121018/08270420750/windows-8s-arbitrary-app-certification-rules-could-block-skyrim-other-huge-games.shtml)
Link 2 (http://gamasutra.com/view/feature/179420/the_next_twenty_years_what_.php)



2032?

ffs

:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

I fully expect Windows to be gone by 2032.

[Headbanger]

Some more comments from the interview with the ex-MS honcho have been used to fluff out an article at IGN...

http://au.ign.com/articles/2013/02/08/microsoft-insider-claims-it-should-refocus-on-pc



"Xbox does not fit into Microsoft’s portfolio," he claims. "If you talk about maybe the software for it and the services, okay, but making that hardware box? My God. There is no money there!
"Yes, maybe it attracted the younger generation who want a game console, but look at the graphical quality on all these games consoles today," he explained. "Compared with the graphic systems you can have on the PC, they’re awful, they’re just awful! They’re always a generation or two behind for the simple reason that they need to sell these boxes for 250 bucks."


Funny enough he thinks consoles are a dead end and a money pit.

Oh, and the graphics are shit.

[Scuba_Steve]

Some more comments from the interview with the ex-MS honcho have been used to fluff out an article at IGN...

Funny enough he thinks consoles are a dead end and a money pit.

Oh, and the graphics are shit.

IGN always a great source for truthful, unbiased, & untainted gaming news :facepalm:
As for "graphics are shit" I honestly aint seen much better from PC's, sure they're better but no where near enough for me to go "fuck yea I'm gonna go piss away a grand on a GFX card & get back into PC gaming"

[SMOKEU]

IGN always a great source for truthful, unbiased, & untainted gaming news :facepalm:
As for "graphics are shit" I honestly aint seen much better from PC's, sure they're better but no where near enough for me to go "fuck yea I'm gonna go piss away a grand on a GFX card & get back into PC gaming"

Compare a console with a high end gaming rig and the console always has shitty graphics. The difference is like night and day.

[Headbanger]

I don't have a high end gaming rig, and I can run Skyrim at 1080p with every single setting maxed out.

Load times are too quick to read the text on the loading screens, The games runs as smoooooooooooth as butter, and it looks fucking stunning.

If someone can't see the difference between this and the console version then they are either delusion, full of shit, or blind to the point they need glasses.

[Scuba_Steve]

Since this this turned into a next gen gaming thread... seems Crytek is headed "Free-To-Play" & within the next 5 years too so says CEO Cevat Yerli, of-course all based round their GFace service


"We decided five or six years ago that we want to marry the quality of triple-A games with the business model of free-to-play," Yerli says. "And at that time, we decided some other games, in some of our other studios, would head in this direction. But we kept pushing the quality bar higher on our console business, which is the main dominating business for the Western world, but we are observing, plainly - and we see this already with Warface - that the free-to-play market is on the rise. I think over the next two to three years, free-to-play is going to rival retail with quality games like Warface."
Crytek as a business will "transition from a developer to a service company" and will offer GFace to any developer that needs it, Yerli says.

[Headbanger]

PC's are always next generation......

Not only in hardware/performance but in marketing,distribution,development,communities, Mods and online play.

The free-to-play movement is just one example, and of course the other big one, community funded projects,bypassing the publishers entirely.

Most will still sell a line of retail games alongside a related free-to-play game, Though I'd expect support to wane for some projects quite shortly as they continue to price content in "free" games through the roof or offer "games" which are merely demos or bereft of worthy content.

[Scuba_Steve]

PC's are always next generation......


Think you mean PC's are ever evolving, not they're always next gen. Something cannot always be next gen.



The free-to-play movement is just one example, and of course the other big one, community funded projects,bypassing the publishers entirely


Kickstarter is a good idea, for all media!. Publishers are too demanding, restrictive & quite often moronic. So being able to bypass them can only be a good thing really... So long as we don't take a return to pumping out outter shit like what saw the great console crash of the 80's... ET anyone?

[BuzzardNZ]

I don't have a high end gaming rig, and I can run Skyrim at 1080p with every single setting maxed out.

Load times are too quick to read the text on the loading screens, The games runs as smoooooooooooth as butter, and it looks fucking stunning.

If someone can't see the difference between this and the console version then they are either delusion, full of shit, or blind to the point they need glasses.

The load times for Skyrim on the PS3 are what killed this game for me. On average 10 to 40 seconds :(

[Headbanger]

... So long as we don't take a return to pumping out outter shit

We already have that happening right now on the Android platform.

[Scuba_Steve]

The load times for Skyrim on the PS3 are what killed this game for me. On average 10 to 40 seconds :(

I miss load times, used to go make a coffee while my game was loading... it's all too fast for that now :wait:


We already have that happening right now on the Android platform.

touche

[BuzzardNZ]

I miss load times, used to go make a coffee while my game was loading... it's all too fast for that now :wait:



This is seriously how I'd play Skyrim:
1) install the disc in PS3.
2) Fill up sink and leave dirty dishes to soak a bit.
3) Play Skyrim
4) Open a door in Skyrim ( game loads ).
5) wash a dish.
6) Goto 3) Repeat until dishes done or totally pissed off with load times.

Thank goodness for Dark Souls, now that's a game they got right on the console but mucked it up for the PC.

[Scuba_Steve]

This is seriously how I'd play Skyrim:
1) install the disc in PS3.
2) Fill up sink and leave dirty dishes to soak a bit.
3) Play Skyrim
4) Open a door in Skyrim ( game loads ).
5) wash a dish.
6) Goto 3) Repeat until dishes done or totally pissed off with load times.

Thank goodness for Dark Souls, now that's a game they got right on the console but mucked it up for the PC.

Yea ok that's too much, I was talking more like old BF Nam, MoHAA etc where I could make me a drink or grab me a feed in-between matches as the maps loaded up

[Scuba_Steve]

Well true enough the Sony event today was PS4.
And it's confirmed it will be running modified x86 architecture (maybee you PC fanboys will start getting decent ports)
8GB of GDDR5 memory
CPU & GFX are both heavily modified PC type
it also rocks a 2nd chip exclusively to handle downloads/uploads as to not take away power from gaming and also to enable instant gaming i.e. start gaming as it still downloads
PS4 controller is still DualShock form factor but more rounded & rubberized & with addition of lightbar, share button & touchpad
There will however not be native backward compatibility (as somewhat expect given the new architecture) instead this will be the job of their Gaikai acquisition. It'll be cloud based backwards comparability
There will also be "save states" i.e. you can exit a game as said point & come back in at same point like mobile gaming
You can also share a game with a mate. If you're having trouble on a level you can send the save state through to a mate to play you through it remotely at their place on their PS4 (again Gaikai tech here)

Event still going so more to come but that's the main overview

[steve_t]

Well true enough the Sony event today was PS4.
And it's confirmed it will be running modified x86 architecture (maybee you PC fanboys will start getting decent ports)
8GB of GDDR5 memory
CPU & GFX are both heavily modified PC type
it also rocks a 2nd chip exclusively to handle downloads/uploads as to not take away power from gaming and also to enable instant gaming i.e. start gaming as it still downloads
PS4 controller is still DualShock form factor but more rounded & rubberized & with addition of lightbar, share button & touchpad
There will however not be native backward compatibility (as somewhat expect given the new architecture) instead this will be the job of their Gaikai acquisition. It'll be cloud based backwards comparability
There will also be "save states" i.e. you can exit a game as said point & come back in at same point like mobile gaming
You can also share a game with a mate. If you're having trouble on a level you can send the save state through to a mate to play you through it remotely at their place on their PS4 (again Gaikai tech here)

Event still going so more to come but that's the main overview

x86 architecture?! It's a frickin PC then. 8GB shared memory?

[bogan]

x86 architecture?! It's a frickin PC then. 8GB shared memory?

Just under 2 gflops on the GPU, in line with mid range tech (GTX 660); but thats ok cos superior architecture will get heaps more out of it, oh wait... :shifty:

[Scuba_Steve]

x86 architecture?! It's a frickin PC then. 8GB shared memory?

technically they've always been PC's, just now they're running x86 architecture
Yea "8GB GDDR5 unified memory"

[steve_t]

I wonder if it comes with Windows 8 :Pokey:

[imdying]

x86 architecture?! It's a frickin PC then. 8GB shared memory?No, if it was a PC you'd be able to do anything you want instead of only what Sony wants.

[Headbanger]

Super charged PC?

Even the hype this generation is a let down.

[bogan]

For those interested, here's The Abridged Playstation 4 Announcement

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/0rJDn0jRnUQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Headbanger]

We got nothing,wiggle wiggle wiggle yeah



wiggle wiggle wiggle yeah

..........

[imdying]

Same as always man... this is just the very first salvo in what will be a long protracted back and forth between them and Microsoft for a good couple of years.

Sony have nothing concrete yet (that they're willing to reveal at least), but they know the value of being first to market assuming they don't make a hash of it.

They still have time to concentrate their efforts on what the wider public pick up as oooh we like the sound of that. Expect a few more fishing expeditions from both camps over the next 6 months.

[Headbanger]

I look froward to the unveilings, the hardware, and the bullshit claims that console fans get sucked into.

What Im saying is that this time the bullshit is weak, sure its always weak but at least its usually also ridicules, Sony doing an unveiling without an unveiling, and then announcing what they didn't unveil is a small form factor PC with mid-rage specs...

Time for a stabbing me thinks.