ACC pays out more than $11,000 for sunburn "injuries"

[Madness]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10862933

That's just stupid, innit?.

I mean, it's not like you can go out on a sunny day like we've had all this week to get burned and come back and say "bugger me the sun came out today & I really wasn't expecting it".

:facepalm:

[mashman]

Depends on whether you were expecting cloud or not innit

[Madness]

Depends on whether you were expecting cloud or not innit

So you blame Jim Hickey then?

[nakedsv]

Whats the bet half of them got drunk and passed out in the sun.:facepalm:
Always nice to see where my taxes get spent

[mashman]

So you blame Jim Hickey then?

What for? accept that some people may just be expecting cloud :laugh:

[PrincessBandit]

I thought you could still get burnt even if it was cloudy.

[nighthawk]

It does not surprise me that ACC would payout for sun burn or insect bites because that would suit their inane thinking process...ie that injury has a name therefore it fits our criteria and we will waste time and tax payer money on people who have limited intelligence or ar just taking the piss.......

Granted there are those who have the legitimate injuries as result of accidents etc but from our experience the thinking processes used by some at ACC is totally blizzare.

As a result of an unfortunate rupture of an old well documented injury last march Mrs NH has been unable to walk since and is so heavily medicated for intense pain that every day is a struggle.

We are not able to get home help,or any form of assistance as ACC took the mind set that it was a syndrome of the injury and we don't treat a syndrome.

Life for her has been sheer hell, it took a formal complaint to both the Human Rights Commission and the Office of the Ombudsman to get them to enter into dialog with us.

The staff handling our file took the stance that they would ignore the initial inquiries from the Ombudsman,until it was pointed out that their employment could well be jeopardised should they continue.
What should by their" own code of practice "should have taken 21 days is now 11months down the track and waiting.
ACC needs a total revamp both in its code of practice and the staff working for it, as for those who would waste tax payer monies on their own STUPIDITY, try taking some responsibility for your action.

[slofox]

I thought you could still get burnt even if it was cloudy.

You can...(DAMHIK :angry:)

[Akzle]

...should have taken 21 days is now 11months down the track and waiting.
...needs a total revamp both in its code of practice and the staff working for it,

...those who would waste tax payer monies on their own STUPIDITY, try taking some responsibility for your action.

so i see you've met the government

taking responsibility?!?! that's the anti-thesis of legislation (governance) in NZ.
if people took responsibility for their own shit, the government would disappear tomorow.

[nighthawk]

]so i see you've met the government[/I]



YES :yes:that I have and until yesterday when I gave notice, I worked for an under resourced an heavily regulated section of the public service which is constantly under the microscope:shit:

[Oblivion]

Some friends of ours went to Hawaii a month or two ago. Apparently they were in the sun every day, for more than 8 hours. No sunblock or hats. They got no sunburn. They arrived back here, and got sunburn within the week.

I know the ozone hole and all that stuff, but it makes you think how much harsher the sun here actually is.

[steve_t]

So, we know that there is a strong correlation between sunburn and skin cancer. If I file for a sunburn 'injury', would treatment for skin cancer be considered as 'continuing care'?

[Ocean1]

It does not surprise me that ACC would payout for sun burn or insect bites because that would suit their inane thinking process...ie that injury has a name therefore it fits our criteria and we will waste time and tax payer money on people who have limited intelligence or ar just taking the piss.......

Yeah, they've told me they're not covering the costs of either rotator cuff damage or a torn ACL in the last year, on the basis that they're not injuries, they're age related wear. :laugh:

[98tls]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10862933

That's just stupid, innit?.

I mean, it's not like you can go out on a sunny day like we've had all this week to get burned and come back and say "bugger me the sun came out today & I really wasn't expecting it".

:facepalm:

Stacies infatuation with that wine bottle was sooner or later destined to end in tears,taking it to the beach was simply stupid,even wine bottles need time out.

[SMOKEU]

Some friends of ours went to Hawaii a month or two ago. Apparently they were in the sun every day, for more than 8 hours. No sunblock or hats. They got no sunburn. They arrived back here, and got sunburn within the week.

I know the ozone hole and all that stuff, but it makes you think how much harsher the sun here actually is.

The sun in South Africa is nice, too. Instead of getting a burn after an hour you get a mild tan.

[mashman]

I thought you could still get burnt even if it was cloudy.

heh heh heh... I meant really cloudy :shifty:

[Usarka]

Most of these people would have had sunburn previously. I'm surprised ACC didn't decline them all saying it was a pre-existing condition....

[Madness]

I want to know what $11,000 worth of moisturiser looks like.

[mashman]

I want to know what $11,000 worth of moisturiser looks like.

50 visits to $234 hookers might answer that for ya.

[Brian d marge]

Those cheeky darkies ,,,,,,
Stephen

[Madness]

$234 hookers

You really need to shop around more.

[clonak]

I think we need to basicly scrap ACC, or atleast the option of private insurance, where if you do have private cover, you dont need to pay ACC levies and there for do not have to rely on them.
I was told awhile ago about a doco that was on, the guy that created the module for ACC didnt intend it to be a profitable organisation. Of course, the govt decided they needed to make money. Now paying out for sicknesses or injuries isnt going to make them money.

How can the people that work there actually sleep at night, knowing they are screwing hard working, tax paying kiwis over.... Iv seen too many people need their help but being refused. Makes you wonder why you bother paying the stupid levies.

[mashman]

You really need to shop around more.

heh... I couldn't manage 234 $50 hookers these days.

[328FTW]

They rang me the other day doing a survey. The basics of it was asking if I got burned in the weekend just gone and I said yeah I had. Woman on the other end jumped up and down with glee she'd got a burned person. Anyway the questions centred around how I got burned, what the weather was like etc.

Then when we had established I'd destroyed my racecar and was standing in the middle of a racetrack all day holding a flag she asks "would you support an extra $30 charge a year by the local council for them to put up extra shade area and plant trees for shelter". I said no and she wanted my reason for opposition. Maybe because it's a stupid solution and I'll spend my 30 bux on some small sunscreens to throw in my cars instead.

[Hitcher]

In the New Zealand armed farces, "sunburn" is on the list of self-inflicted wounds, which makes having it a punishable offence. ACC should adopt a similar policy.

[007XX]

In the New Zealand armed farces, "sunburn" is on the list of self-inflicted wounds, which makes having it a punishable offence. ACC should adopt a similar policy.

Aaaahh... Holding stupid actions committers responsible for their actions. Wouldn't that be grand?

I haven't had a sunburn in 20 odd years, and am so freakin white, I'm near enough transparent ( as those who've met me can attest to).

My wee girl is the same. I race around after her each morning to dowse her in the susnscreen she hates, but is still yet to know what a sunburn feels like.

ACC is an abberation and an insult to anyone who has to pay their stupid taxes. Shouldn't democracy allow us to vote them out of existence?
As another poster said... If one has private insurance, ACC should be made obsolete.

[Ocean1]

Aaaahh... Holding stupid actions committers responsible for their actions. Wouldn't that be grand?

I haven't had a sunburn in 20 odd years, and am so freakin white, I'm near enough transparent ( as those who've met me can attest to).

My wee girl is the same. I race around after her each morning to dowse her in the susnscreen she hates, but is still yet to know what a sunburn feels like.

ACC is an abberation and an insult to anyone who has to pay their stupid taxes. Shouldn't democracy allow us to vote them out of existence?
As another poster said... If one has private insurance, ACC should be made obsolete.


I'll just point out, here that New Zealand has better healthcare for it's dollar than any other country in the world.

That shouldn't stop us getting pissed at stupid policy, but let's keep it in perspective, eh? I wouldn't have the US's private health care transplanted here for all the tea in china.

[nakedsv]

So, we know that there is a strong correlation between sunburn and skin cancer. If I file for a sunburn 'injury', would treatment for skin cancer be considered as 'continuing care'?

It would be considered a complication from an accidentally injury and thus not covered by acc

[Mom]

Sadly, I have had to take a child to the doctor and claim ACC (just for the doctor visit I might add) for a sunburn injury.

You know how you expect people to share the same common sense rules as you do as far as, well lets just say, making sure your kids have sun block on before spending ALL day in the sun, especially when they are actually white as all get out? DONT!

I was so horrified at the state of the sunburn on this little girl I almost cried. She got up in the morning and asked me if she should have bubbles on her shoulders and arms! I have never seen blisters like that. Horrilbe time for her.
And it cost us a fotune in solarcaine spray, and other soothing things. Thankfully healed up no problems, and the said lovely girl never, ever ventures out in the sun without lathering herself up.

She is 16 now, and we just spent 10 days at the beach in dazzling sunshine and high temps. SHe spent most of everyday at the beach, in a bikini. Not a hint of sunburn to be seen.

Some parents are idiots!

[007XX]

I'll just point out, here that New Zealand has better healthcare for it's dollar than any other country in the world.

That shouldn't stop us getting pissed at stupid policy, but let's keep it in perspective, eh? I wouldn't have the US's private health care transplanted here for all the tea in china.

Where did I say our healthcare system was crap? :confused:

I said ACC is an idiot box. And that if someone caters for their own healthcare via private sustem, they shouldn't have to pay ACC.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but it seemed fairly logical and fair to me.

[Ocean1]

Where did I say our healthcare system was crap? :confused:

I said ACC is an idiot box. And that if someone caters for their own healthcare via private sustem, they shouldn't have to pay ACC.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but it seemed fairly logical and fair to me.

I didn't contradict you. However, if you costed the services ACC provide and then went shopping amongst private suppliers you wouldn't get half way through your list before you ran out of money. Even if you left out the cost of supplying services to idiots. Seriously.

[Mom]

I want to know what $11,000 worth of moisturiser looks like.

:lol: Sadly, sunburn that means it will not respond to moisturiser.

Anyone that has a sunburn injury, should not be covered by ACC! It is common sense shit. I sometimes/rarely get a bit pink :o

But, I have lived here long enough to respect the sun. I am brown as a berry, I have that skin type. I never sit/lay in the sun. My "tan" is a result of simply living in NZ, and taking a bit of care. I never used to, I am of the generation that coated themselves with baby oil and fryed ourselves. I hope I dont have to pay the penalty for that stupidity later.

[PrincessBandit]

.....

I haven't had a sunburn in 20 odd years, and am so freakin white, I'm near enough transparent ( as those who've met me can attest to).

My wee girl is the same. I race around after her each morning to dowse her in the susnscreen she hates, but is still yet to know what a sunburn feels like.

.

I've had several cases of bad sunburn over the years - usually on my nose and legs (of all places!) My arms go quite brown but my legs stay lily white. When I put my arm down against my leg they look like they belong to two different people. My legs are either white or burnt pink; they never seem to tan. Worst part of my body though is my nose and have the annual period of putting up with being called Rudolph. This happens even when i'm particularly careful to cover my nose :no:

[007XX]

I've had several cases of bad sunburn over the years - usually on my nose and legs (of all places!) My arms go quite brown but my legs stay lily white. When I put my arm down against my leg they look like they belong to two different people. My legs are either white or burnt pink; they never seem to tan. Worst part of my body though is my nose and have the annual period of putting up with being called Rudolph. This happens even when i'm particularly careful to cover my nose :no:

Damn, you poor thing! That would suck.

I obviously can't and do not want to tell you what to do, but personally, I just don't go out anymore without 50+ sunscreen on any skin thats likely to be exposed to the sun during the day.
I was burnt quite badly a few times as a kid, and so I'll probably face troubles later on anyway. But I just don't want to make it any worse if I can help it eh.

If you're at all interested, look up a product called Daylong in pharmacy. Its a once a day application sunscreen. Quite a bit more expensive, but I love it under makeup.

[Banditbandit]

50 visits to $234 hookers might answer that for ya.


You really need to shop around more.

Shit - that's cheap - 30 years ago two women I knew would not have got out of bed for less than $1,000 a night .. (well, they'd actually get INTO bed for that - but no less ...)

[Usarka]

I didn't contradict you. However, if you costed the services ACC provide and then went shopping amongst private suppliers you wouldn't get half way through your list before you ran out of money. Even if you left out the cost of supplying services to idiots. Seriously.

+1

Health insurance doesn't cover accidents - neither medical, liability, nor income (although it can "top up" ACC payments). If it did it for any of these it would be a lot more expensive.

[Madness]

$1,000 a night

So you couldn't hire them on a 7-minute interval basis then? It sounds pretty niche if that's the case.

[Usarka]

7 minutes?

Bloody hell. What do ya do with all that left over time?

[Madness]

7 minutes?

Bloody hell. What do ya do with all that left over time?

Toenail clipping, etc.

[Usarka]

Or applying ointment to the scabs that got rubbed off......

[Ocean1]

+1

Health insurance doesn't cover accidents - neither medical, liability, nor income (although it can "top up" ACC payments). If it did it for any of these it would be a lot more expensive.

Aye. Most Kiwis don't know how well our health system performs compared to other national systems. The comparitive data doesn't sell newspapers or soundbytes. The total US healtcare industry costs aprox 2.5 times what ours does, per capita, and supplies slightly more than half the value in terms of the quantity of comparable services supplied. The UK supplies more and arguably better services, but at significantly higher costs.

And ACC, with all of it's quirks is a large part of the reason why. Now, if the politicians stopped using individual services as vote tokens you might start to see some common sense in how each is funded.

[mashman]

Shit - that's cheap - 30 years ago two women I knew would not have got out of bed for less than $1,000 a night .. (well, they'd actually get INTO bed for that - but no less ...)

Did you have to kick your biotches out of bed to get to work then? What was your cut?

I just ain't that classy. Be great if I could get that on ACC... and if the missus ever found out I wonder if ACC would give me frequent visitor points.

[mashman]

And ACC, with all of it's quirks is a large part of the reason why. Now, if the politicians stopped using individual services as vote tokens you might start to see some common sense in how each is funded.

More details in regards to common sense please.

[Ocean1]

More details in regards to common sense please.

Start with a list of health interventions and their costs in one hand and a budget in the other.

Order interventions, (treatments, surgery etc) according to cost per quality unit (X relative improvement in health over Y time), best value at the top.

Start ticking from the top down until you run out of budget. That’s your list of publicly funded services, and that's roughly the model our funding was originally set up from.

Since then every fuckwit with an agenda has kicked and screamed about the lack of funding for a particular intervention juuust a little below the budget cut-off line. The local member goes to bat for his constituents, press calls alongside righteously indignant lobbyist and sick child, the crowd goes wild and there’s questions in the house. Ministers don’t like questions, calls for enquiry to stall further bad press. A year later the report falls onto the minister’s desk. He ignores it. Original crew discover report has been received and file a slew of OIRs. In the face of increasing pressure in election year the minister institutes a policy change and the intervention everyone’s bitching about gets funding approval.

Now, here's the question: Which previously funded intervention with a better claim to that funding has been flicked off the list in order for that to happen?

Repeat the rabble rousing a dozen times a year and what do you think that list would look like? All because it’s politically untenable to simply say: “I’m sorry, but we can’t afford the drug for that illness.”

[Banditbandit]

So you couldn't hire them on a 7-minute interval basis then? It sounds pretty niche if that's the case.

Fuck knows .. what do you think I am (well .. yeah ..) That as years ago ... the ones I did know who offered that services was pay for the action ... not the orgasm So .. hand job $25, blow job $35, full sex $60 ... I'll bet the price has gone up now ..


7 minutes?

Bloody hell. What do ya do with all that left over time?

Try to sleep while she talks?

[Banditbandit]

Did you have to kick your bitches out of bed to get to work then? What was your cut?



"You must spread ..." Naaa .. just at the time I had friends living in what you might call the underbelly ... pretty much lived there myself ...

[mashman]

Start with a list of health interventions and their costs in one hand and a budget in the other.

Order interventions, (treatments, surgery etc) according to cost per quality unit (X relative improvement in health over Y time), best value at the top.

Start ticking from the top down until you run out of budget. That’s your list of publicly funded services, and that's roughly the model our funding was originally set up from.

Since then every fuckwit with an agenda has kicked and screamed about the lack of funding for a particular intervention juuust a little below the budget cut-off line. The local member goes to bat for his constituents, press calls alongside righteously indignant lobbyist and sick child, the crowd goes wild and there’s questions in the house. Ministers don’t like questions, calls for enquiry to stall further bad press. A year later the report falls onto the minister’s desk. He ignores it. Original crew discover report has been received and file a slew of OIRs. In the face of increasing pressure in election year the minister institutes a policy change and the intervention everyone’s bitching about gets funding approval.

Now, here's the question: Which previously funded intervention with a better claim to that funding has been flicked off the list in order for that to happen?

Repeat the rabble rousing a dozen times a year and what do you think that list would look like? All because it’s politically untenable to simply say: “I’m sorry, but we can’t afford the drug for that illness.”

Ahhhhh yes, I remember you giving me a wee slap when I banged the Herceptin drum last year or the year before. Sometimes you do make sense :innocent:... and I often use that as an example when explaining NOW to people :yes:.

As you say, a politician can't just come out and say that there ain't enough cash, coz some bugga may realise that that means people get to die... and that doesn't seems to sit well with civilised folk. I understand the practicalities of the decisions that need to be made, but you can bet yer arse I'd be dancing up and down if it were one of mine.

Ta muchly for explanation.

[mashman]

"You must spread ..." Naaa .. just at the time I had friends living in what you might call the underbelly ... pretty much lived there myself ...

Where you the rent collector :blip:

[Ocean1]

Ahhhhh yes, I remember you giving me a wee slap when I banged the Herceptin drum last year or the year before.

Ah yes. Herceptin. It was already funded, for a different class of treatment, for a different group, under it's originally intended prescription regime. The original intended use was as an early intervention treatment, costing a few tens of thousands of dollars for a regular course with a history of moderate success. Enter a study that demonstrates that a very small percentage of more advanced cases benefited from massive doses of Herceptin. That class of intervention wasn't funded. Hence the uproar. Not fair: they're getting it and I'm not!

Remember the original funding model decision criteria involved a best-bang-for-your-buck element? The new treatment was successfull for very very few cases, and the treatment course was indeterminant. The cost of that course amounted to several hundred thousand dollars a year. I don't know where the money came from to fund that, but I look at the system's routine failure to supply services they should be and I can't help but wonder.

Nah, fuckit, I know full well why they decline treatments they're supposed to cover.

[mashman]

Nah, fuckit, I know full well why they decline treatments they're supposed to cover.

Well don't stop there FFS...

[Ocean1]

The list's too long, they've promised to deliver more than the budget can support.

Instead of saying clearly what they can do and getting it done they've now got to reduce spending across the whole list of services. The way that happens is the waiting list gets long enough that it's too late for enough people so that the demand fits the supply. They either die on the waiting list or they get sick enough that they fall into another category, usually a category that's far more expensive to treat, and for them the cycle starts again.

The overall upshot is that the budget is spent far less effectively than it should be, far more people are left without the care they need than would be the case if they refrained from using the health budget to buy votes.

And I don't know how you fix it, other than writing it down clearly, along with a few other agreed rules of governance as part of a proper constitution. One the ellected riffraff can't fuck with.

[mashman]

The list's too long, they've promised to deliver more than the budget can support.

Instead of saying clearly what they can do and getting it done they've now got to reduce spending across the whole list of services. The way that happens is the waiting list gets long enough that it's too late for enough people so that the demand fits the supply. They either die on the waiting list or they get sick enough that they fall into another category, usually a category that's far more expensive to treat, and for them the cycle starts again.

The overall upshot is that the budget is spent far less effectively than it should be, far more people are left without the care they need than would be the case if they refrained from using the health budget to buy votes.

And I don't know how you fix it, other than writing it down clearly, along with a few other agreed rules of governance as part of a proper constitution. One the ellected riffraff can't fuck with.

That or make the whole lot private eh. Decisions decisions... glad someone else gets to make them :facepalm:

I know how to fix it, amongst other things :shifty: :rofl:... aye, tis a tricky one. Perhaps it's time to start having laws that can only be changed by a democratic vote of the population, but even at that it's a serious can of worms given what popular opinion pushes as sense these days.