Haldanes is closed [Archive] - Kiwi Biker forums

Crasherfromwayback

1st February 2013, 18:45

Less new bike sales? Less servicing as a result? Or is it less accessory and parts sales due to online purchasing? Or just generally a combination of all 3.

Less new bike sales. The Japanese side of things is slow. I was chatting with the national dealer rep from Blue Wing the other day. He said their road bike dealers were all squealing too. Farm/quad bike dealers were going ok...as are Suzuki's. Service dept is busy as. Parts down a lil.

I needed a new chain and sprocket fitted. Called several bike shops around town got quoted at 250-350$

George at Motorcycle doctors said he'd do it for 90$. And he comes to you.

New bike prices here are also outrageous from my non native new zealander point of view :sweatdrop I wonder how many people are buying new vs used from trade me.

And George pays how much rent?

New bike prices here are actually quite ok.

clonak

1st February 2013, 19:00

That sucks. Going to have to travel further for a bike shop now. Not to mention the people out of a job, thats gotta hurt this early in the year. Im trying to find work and its not proving to be as easy as I thought....

A slightly easier car park to get in and out of wouldnt have gone a miss though. Saw a guy got wiped out in front of the shop the other day. Not sure if he was leaving there or what, didnt see it happen, just the pile of fairings in the midle of the road, and a car with a mashed up front end.

Glowerss

1st February 2013, 19:03

And George pays how much rent?

New bike prices here are actually quite ok.

I spose it's a matter of perspective or what you're used too. Bike prices here are 2-3x what I'm used too :facepalm:

Anyway I'm not saying George is better or the dealerships are charging too much or ripping people off or whatever else rubbish. I know that they have overheads.

Point was, there are a lot of dealerships out there, and when you can get servicing from somebody who not only comes to your house, but is well reputed and charges far less (due to less overhead and no extra staff ect whatever) it's going to make it hard for bike shops to compete.

I don't know what the shops can do about it. I suspect somebody far smarter then I will sort it out.

Crasherfromwayback

1st February 2013, 19:16

I spose it's a matter of perspective or what you're used too. Bike prices here are 2-3x what I'm used too :facepalm:

Point was, there are a lot of dealerships out there, and when you can get servicing from somebody who not only comes to your house, but is well reputed and charges far less (due to less overhead and no extra staff ect whatever) it's going to make it hard for bike shops to compete.

.

Where are you comparing prices to? The UK?

And I agree with what you're saying about the 'Georges' of NZ. I don't blame them one lil bit for doing their thing and earning money from doing so. I do wonder though...what will happen one day when 'George' makes a fuckup, that does thousands of dollars worth of damage to someones bike. Also...when there are only Georges left...best worry about who's going to do warranty work on your new bike etc etc.

I do believe there are too many motorcycle shops out there, and I'm sure you'll find only the best ones will survive. But it is a shame to see so many good ones go too.

Brian d marge

1st February 2013, 19:27

You will see a lot more of this , unfortuantly , until the business model is changed , motorcycling is entertainment , on par with the movies and the pub after work

Stephen

DMNTD

1st February 2013, 19:37

Haldane is shutting, email received today...

Jebus, effin not good! Have been through the same when Mt Eden closed down and it's fucking stressful for all involved, including suppliers.

aderino4

1st February 2013, 19:53

I know that this is unwanted news , however from the staff point of view there has been
even less information given.

They've also just received new shipment of Diavel on Wednesday. (According to the facebook page)
There is even a post on their facebook page as late as 3PM today.

It sounded weird almost like a stakeholder left with the money with very little or no notice.

I wonder if their Victory Motorcycle arm is still going or not.

Digitdion

1st February 2013, 19:55

It's not going to get any better when twats keep buying stuff on the net from overseas for small personal financial gains.

That's a stupid comment. There are so many reasons why Haldanes has had to close. And in this day and age most people or business's are into personal financial gains. Bike shops are like any other business. They need to adapt to changing times.

Road kill

1st February 2013, 20:00

Not good at all,those guys just seemed to be around for ever,,,bugger.

Motorcycles are a luxury today,,,more to come I'd say.:bye:

Madness

1st February 2013, 20:04

That's a stupid comment.

That's an ignorant response. Yes, there are many reasons why motorcycle shops are dropping like flies and I didn't suggest the trend to privately import stuff over the internet was the dominant factor, let alone the only one. The point is that people are too quick to buy stuff over the net without realising the net effect of that singular transaction on our economy. It's not just bike shops, it's fucking everything. We are importing fully fabricated steel beams for buildings from China, FFS.

Dumb fucks in this country need to realise that the small gain of say $50 to $100 they could make on privately importing shit is potentially going to cost them tenfold in taxes to pay the unemployment benefits of all the retail staff they themselves are doing out of a job.

The world is changing and if we blindly go along with it and all its temptations rather than thinking about our own circumstances here at the bottom of the planet then we're all royally fucked.

skippa1

1st February 2013, 20:07

They've also just received new shipment of Diavel on Wednesday. (According to the facebook page)
There is even a post on their facebook page as late as 3PM today.

It sounded weird almost like a stakeholder left with the money with very little or no notice.

I wonder if their Victory Motorcycle arm is still going or not.

Nah. I got the same email an it said that Victory will be appointing a new agent. Sucks.

Katman

1st February 2013, 20:39

George at Motorcycle doctors said he'd do it for 90$. And he comes to you.

With all due respect, George does the Warehouse's warranty work.

Digitdion

1st February 2013, 20:47

That's an ignorant response. Yes, there are many reasons why motorcycle shops are dropping like flies and I didn't suggest the trend to privately import stuff over the internet was the dominant factor, let alone the only one. The point is that people are too quick to buy stuff over the net without realising the net effect of that singular transaction on our economy. It's not just bike shops, it's fucking everything. We are importing fully fabricated steel beams for buildings from China, FFS.

Dumb fucks in this country need to realise that the small gain of say $50 to $100 they could make on privately importing shit is potentially going to cost them tenfold in taxes to pay the unemployment benefits of all the retail staff they themselves are doing out of a job.

The world is changing and if we blindly go along with it and all its temptations rather than thinking about our own circumstances here at the bottom of the planet then we're all royally fucked.

Good luck to you matey! I hope you practice what you preach. Personally after paying tax after tax in NZ, for me saving a hundy or two here and there is well worth it. Retail is about providing a product that people want to buy. To many bike shops I see around have very average product because they can not afford to stock it. Our problem is we are such a small market. Weather you like it or not the Internet is not going away. All retailers have to work out how to make it work.

Just because I own a bike, it does not mean I have to pay over the top prices for average service or product. It's time to stop blaming the Internet for bike shops going bust.

Madness

1st February 2013, 20:53

It's time to stop blaming the Internet for bike shops going bust.

It's not the internet, it's how we're using it. I've seen posts on here of people buying shit online only to find on recieving it that the exact item was available locally for the same price.

Again, it's not just bike shops but that just once again highlights the inability of some people to see the bigger picture.

To many bike shops I see around have very average product because they can not afford to stock it.

And you don't think that could be a sign of reduced cashflow, the beginning of the end. It won't just be the end for the bike shop but also an end to having choices and active competition in the marketplace.

Got kids? If so, good luck to them matey!

tri boy

1st February 2013, 21:01

With all due respect, George does the Warehouse's warranty work.

You still pissy about that:shit:
They picked him because he had better credentials than you.
get over it.

Madness

1st February 2013, 21:02

They picked him because he had better credentials than you.

Katman doesn't swallow? :gob:

Digitdion

1st February 2013, 21:15

Madness

1st February 2013, 21:20

None of your business if I have kids. Come on, get real.
Do you do your own bike maintanence? If you do you are a hypocrite. You should be taking your bike down to your local dealer instead of saving a few buck!

Can you enlighten me what the bloody big picture is?

In regards to having choices and active competition. As long as there is demand there will always be a market place. It's simple economics.

None of your business if I do my own maintenance. Come on, get real :facepalm:

The only thing that's simple here is people like you & your narrow-minded "all about me" mentality. There will always be demand, but will there won't always be retailers in this country offering us the convenience & choice we're all accustomed to. Do you think the bigger markets like the U.S are facing these same issues? I think not.

Time to stop denying it just so you feel better about having saved $100 on a pair of thermal underwear or summat at the expense of a New Zealanders job.

Matey.

Road kill

1st February 2013, 21:28

Madness

1st February 2013, 21:31

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:: laugh::no:

You disagree? What say you, Mr Truck Driver?

BMWST?

1st February 2013, 21:31

None of your business if I have kids. Come on, get real.
Do you do your own bike maintanence? If you do you are a hypocrite. You should be taking your bike down to your local dealer instead of saving a few buck!

Can you enlighten me what the bloody big picture is?

In regards to having choices and active competition. As long as there is demand there will always be a market place. It's simple economics.

we dont make a blip in any market.We could be gone from the face of the planet tomorrow and it wouldnt matter to the market.The only market that matters to us should be our own,cos at the end of the day thats the only market that cares about us.I hope you have a job that is based on shit that really matters cos in the not to distant future thats the only kind of job in NZ that will be left

Brian d marge

1st February 2013, 21:42

we dont make a blip in any market.We could be gone from the face of the planet tomorrow and it wouldnt matter to the market.The only market that matters to us should be our own,cos at the end of the day thats the only market that cares about us.I hope you have a job that is based on shit that really matters cos in the not to distant future thats the only kind of job in NZ that will be left

Oamaru the carpet factory has just gone tits up

quote from the mayor" people are buying the cheaper nylon carpets, which are cheaper and shoddier , Thats why the company was running at a loss)

right there is your answers

Stephen

breakaway

1st February 2013, 22:02

It's not going to get any better when twats keep buying stuff on the net from overseas for small personal financial gains.

Perhaps instead of complaining so much, they should investigate why their business model is failing and take steps to improve?

Madness

1st February 2013, 22:12

Perhaps instead of complaining so much, they should investigate why their business model is failing and take steps to improve it?

They are complaining? Where?

For those with limited intellect; I'd imagine it's pretty hard to come up with a strategy to combat international rivals who are often exempt from sales taxes & duties and operate in foreign markets up to 700 times the size of our own with the benefits that provides in terms of buying power, logistical efficiencies and ability to discount.

To suggest that retailers need to adapt to the market in this scenario is simply naive. You cunts that disagree can do what you like, obviously. It's going to be a sad day though when there's fuck all bike shops left and all you same cunts complain about having to order an oil filter from the U.S for anything that's not a GSXR/CBR/WTF.

Howie

1st February 2013, 22:35

It's not the internet, it's how we're using it. I've seen posts on here of people buying shit online only to find on recieving it that the exact item was available locally for the same price.

Again, it's not just bike shops but that just once again highlights the inability of some people to see the bigger picture.

The big picture is what most people see. Just like a Business most people have a fixed budget, and want to get the best return from that. You get price variations both on the internet, and between shops.

And you don't think that could be a sign of reduced cashflow, the beginning of the end. It won't just be the end for the bike shop but also an end to having choices and active competition in the marketplace.

Retail needs to adjust, and realise that internet buying is now part of the competition in the market place. Just as other industries have had to adjust to market changes

The only thing that's simple here is people like you & your narrow-minded "all about me" mentality. There will always be demand, but will there won't always be retailers in this country offering us the convenience & choice we're all accustomed to. Do you think the bigger markets like the U.S are facing these same issues? I think not.

Time to stop denying it just so you feel better about having saved $100 on a pair of thermal underwear or summat at the expense of a New Zealanders job.

So what would you recommend? A return to subsidised industries? and tariff's etc?

Oamaru the carpet factory has just gone tits up

quote from the mayor" people are buying the cheaper nylon carpets, which are cheaper and shoddier , Thats why the company was running at a loss)

right there is your answers

Stephen

Nope the real answer lies in answering the question of why are consumers buying the cheaper product.

My opinion is that the Low Wage economy that NZ has is a real problem in a country a small population base. It force's the average person to make choices based on price vs quality, and unfortunately more often than not price wins.

breakaway

1st February 2013, 22:39

Brian d marge

1st February 2013, 22:42

Nope the real answer lies in answering the question of why are consumers buying the cheaper product.

My opinion is that the Low Wage economy that NZ has is a real problem in a country a small population base. It force's the average person to make choices based on price vs quality, and unfortunately more often than not price wins.

you got it , the question is why are people buying cheaper carpets

hahahhaaa

oh thats right , its the free market

Stephen

Madness

1st February 2013, 22:46

The big picture is what most people see. Just like a Business most people have a fixed budget, and want to get the best return from that. You get price variations both on the internet, and between shops.
There's a lot of people on here who can't see past their own nose. Isn't it great that there's price variation between shops? That's called fair competition, usually played out on a level playing field. Enjoy it while it lasts.

Retail needs to adjust, and realise that internet buying is now part of the competition in the market place. Just as other industries have had to adjust to market changes
Haldanes adjusted today & the carpet mill in Oamaru earlier in the week. The thing is you can't adjust & survive when the playing field is cocked to the power of 700.

So what would you recommend? A return to subsidised industries? and tariff's etc?
We can't really do that now, can we? There's that thing called the WTO and all the trade agreements & treaties we've signed to over the years as we've "adjusted to the changing global economy". No, I'm suggesting that we could all just at least consider the impact to our fellow Kiwi of sending our discretionary income overseas, particularly when we might not have even given him a chance or flipped him off for the price of a cheezeburger.

My opinion is that the Low Wage economy that NZ has is a real problem in a country a small population base. It force's the average person to make choices based on price vs quality, and unfortunately more often than not price wins.
You're right. And slowly but surely we're collectively selling our arses off overseas, fork spring by fork spring. It's a cycle, a vortex and I reckon we're going to regret it.

Madness

1st February 2013, 22:50

With the advent of new technology, things change. Business models and small countries in the South Pacific will be left behind. We'll all soon be reminiscing of a bygone era when the grass was greener and think; "I wish I wasn't such a self-centred twat".

Where are all the people who had been working on an assembly line in a factory doing some menial task when they were replaced by a robotic arm? In a slum somewhere, addicted to crack cocaine & sucking cock every day to pay for it.

If we don't wake the fuck up, we're fucked. No amount of excuses is going to save this country.

Well said that man.

tnarg

1st February 2013, 23:13

It won't be long till the only bike you will be able to buy in Auckland will be Harley's and scooters.

breakaway

1st February 2013, 23:14

Well said that man.

More whinging huh?

Madness

1st February 2013, 23:16

More whinging huh?

Well that was a well thought out, intelligent response. Thanks for your input Cock.

Here, have a book.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41l4JinWugL._SS500_.jpg

Old Steve

1st February 2013, 23:44

New bike prices here are also outrageous

No, can't agree with that. "Outrageous" is the prices of bikes here in Australia. New prices are more in $A than the NZ price is in $NZ, and the Aussie dollar buys $NZ1.25 and there is only 10% GST here in Oz.

My 2010 Suzuki Boulevard M50 has just sold for $8500 in NZ, yet there are the same year same model bikes listed on the interweb for greater than $A9000 here in OZ.

Enjoy your Kiwi prices.

Madness

1st February 2013, 23:44

Lets not forget the cost of registration and insurance for bikes could be also playing a part in the demise of bike shops

Certainly, I had my bike on hold for the first time ever last winter because I couldn't afford the rego.

We as consumers don't have the ability to influence that though, do we? (perhaps not through a lack of trying). We do when it comes to buying parts, accessories & gear in terms of where our hard-earned dollars go.

george formby

2nd February 2013, 00:29

I had my bike on hold for the first time ever last winter because I couldn't afford the rego.

.

That sums it up.
Admittedly I live in a low population part of the country but the vast majority of the people I know are getting poorer. Employers or employees. Haldanes demise is sadly typical of the situation small to medium sized NZ business's are facing. People are on the bones of their arse so the cheapest option is the typical option. Whether it be at the mall rather than the high street shops or the internet rather than the local supplier, everything is budget. You can pay a few $$'s through paypal & have your own on line mechanic sort your problems out if you want to.
You can't hunt them down & kill them if they fuck up, though.
It's shite, even with the best intentions it's hard to support local business sometimes.
I dunno, slowly but surely we are becoming corporate cattle. Having to budget so much lessens our freedom of choice, quality & service.

GrayWolf

2nd February 2013, 01:03

With the advent of new technology, things change. Business models and people who refuse to are left behind, and are left clawing at straws reminiscing of a bygone era when the grass was greener.

Just like how people bitched when they had been working on an assembly line in a factory doing some menial task when they were replaced by a robotic arm.

If you can't adapt, you're fucked. No amount of excuses is going to save you.

You're right, the market did and has adapted to the demand.... over the last 100 years, motorcycles have gone from a 'novelty', The days of the brough superior, indian, and many small 'boutique' manufacturers. Two world wars where the motorcycle was a message runner machine. So there were large numbers of ex Govt machines available in an economy where people earned low wages compared to the purchase price of a 'horseless carriage'. The motorcycle became a serious cheap form of transport often with a Watsonian attached.
By the 1960's the rockers signified a change in attitude to bikes.. the cafe' racer.
In just a short period of time, probably around 10 years; the UJM style of bike was replaced by the early sprot bikes... We the customer, have instigated the demise of our own supply market. Motorcycles are a 'leisure' toy now. They spend the week in the garage for summer weekend 'jaunts', and hibernate out of summer weather.
The gear we now buy is for leisure use in the main, a bike which does heaven forbid, more than 5-6,000 km's a year is considered 'high usage'. The high reliability and often, longevity, of the modern engine has probably taken huge chunks from the spares/repairs market.
We're returning to almost the beginning again... boutique style manufacturers, and limited supply of the product.

Brian d marge

2nd February 2013, 01:18

You're right, the market did and has adapted to the demand.... over the last 100 years, motorcycles have gone from a 'novelty', The days of the brough superior, indian, and many small 'boutique' manufacturers. Two world wars where the motorcycle was a message runner machine. So there were large numbers of ex Govt machines available in an economy where people earned low wages compared to the purchase price of a 'horseless carriage'. The motorcycle became a serious cheap form of transport often with a Watsonian attached.
By the 1960's the rockers signified a change in attitude to bikes.. the cafe' racer.
In just a short period of time, probably around 10 years; the UJM style of bike was replaced by the early sprot bikes... We the customer, have instigated the demise of our own supply market. Motorcycles are a 'leisure' toy now. They spend the week in the garage for summer weekend 'jaunts', and hibernate out of summer weather.
The gear we now buy is for leisure use in the main, a bike which does heaven forbid, more than 5-6,000 km's a year is considered 'high usage'. The high reliability and often, longevity, of the modern engine has probably taken huge chunks from the spares/repairs market.
We're returning to almost the beginning again... boutique style manufacturers, and limited supply of the product.

and to add to that ( as Ive been saying all along ) , if the business model doesnt change you go belly up .
If I ran a bike shop, in NZ , I would be organising weekend "events " a few week night events and " oh btw " we aso sell and service bikes" ( paired down to the minimum ) ie make the money on the events and try to breakeven on the bikes

Also, how easy is it to buy a bike , I seem to remember in Aus ,you could almost walk in and walk out with a new bike, withthe repayments being very low ( that was a few years ago !!)

Stephen

gammaguy

2nd February 2013, 03:25

It's not going to get any better when twats keep buying stuff on the net from overseas for small personal financial gains.

Good one

Let's ignore the fact that motorcycles are more expensive than cars,the importers and some dealers are a lot less than proactive in some cases,and the accountants will tell you there are a million better investments than running a bike shop.

Fact is,the times are changing,and nz in real terms is poorer than it used to be

Luxury items like motorcycles will always be the first to suffer

skippa1

2nd February 2013, 06:46

Certainly, I had my bike on hold for the first time ever last winter because I couldn't afford the rego.

We as consumers don't have the ability to influence that though, do we? (perhaps not through a lack of trying). We do when it comes to buying parts, accessories & gear in terms of where our hard-earned dollars go.

I really agree with what you are saying, but where is the threshold of reasonableness? I went to Haldanes for a set of fly bars for my bike, they were $675 NZD. The same bars on line from a Victory dealer in the States were $150USD delivered to my door.
I discussed this with the parts guy and he agreed, Victory has been spoken to and they wont supply Haldanes with parts that are at competitive prices so that people would go to the dealer......as a dealer they have to suck it up. As a consumer, if I could get the same bars from Haldanes for 10-15% more than the Ebay price, I would do it.....but there is a line I draw whereby I am not going to devalue my own $ and work efforts by spending that HUGE difference solely to keep the dealer in business, or I will be out of the business of supporting myself.

I dont know what the answer is, I just know it isnt simple.

AD345

2nd February 2013, 07:40

This sucks. Heard about it yesterday afternoon. Just as I am due for tyres, warrant and service too - motherfucker

Once more unto the breach dear friends...

skippa1

2nd February 2013, 07:42

This sucks. Heard about it yesterday afternoon. Just as I am due for tyres, warrant and service too - motherfucker

Once more unto the breach dear friends...
Im heading there now, I dont know if the doors are shut but I need oild and filter so will try my luck???:mellow:

AD345

2nd February 2013, 07:43

Im heading there now, I dont know if the doors are shut but I need oild and filter so will try my luck???:mellow:

Good luck

They were pretty bare yesterday

Maha

2nd February 2013, 07:45

Why so much over thinking on the subject?

Simple equation really...sustained low bike sales = close the door.

Bikemad

2nd February 2013, 08:12

This sucks. Heard about it yesterday afternoon. Just as I am due for tyres, warrant and service too - motherfucker

Once more unto the breach dear friends...

give AJ a try...........workshop under motomail..............he is a good cat......reasonable pricing on his tyres etc

Madness

2nd February 2013, 08:46

I really agree with what you are saying, but where is the threshold of reasonableness? ...As a consumer, if I could get the same bars from Haldanes for 10-15% more than the Ebay price, I would do it.....but there is a line I draw whereby I am not going to devalue my own $ and work efforts by spending that HUGE difference solely to keep the dealer in business, or I will be out of the business of supporting myself.

I dont know what the answer is, I just know it isnt simple.

I think you answered your own question and that's IMHO a very fair approach to take. It's unfortunate that the disparity is so huge in some cases and no-one would be reasonable to ask that you'd fork out such huge amounts. It's the mentality of "fuckin dealerships are ripping us all off, I'll just go online for a fucking spark plug" that irks me as we're writing ourselves off as a country wihout giving it a fair go in too many instances.

2nd February 2013, 08:48

A bloody shame when any bike shop closes up.

The good old days will soon be gone when we could enjoy the simple fun day of wandering around all the local shops to admire the bikes, touch em, smell em, sit on em, test ride..and once in a while buy one. Back in my 70s school days it took a hell of the long time to get around all the shops scattered across Christchurch. Sadly it probably only takes an hour now.

I don't see any answer. I think our new prices are reasonable in global terms but cars just keep getting cheaper, pushing the bike into the luxury toy position. Then the economies of scales kick in for cars making their consumables cheaper. My car costs half what the bike costs for a service or tyres etc. I'm not complaining, it's just a shame it has come to that. It was easier for my generation to own a near new bike out of High School. Doubt that's the case now.

Hopefully bike shops can merge and survive. I know Honda was an arsehole for many years demanding their outlets only stock their brand. Reality final smacked them in the face. Unfortunately things like rental costs might force shops out of the CBDs which is also out of sight, out of mind of many prospective buyers.

We need to support our NZ shops folks. Another down side is that when on tour you have a bigger risk of not being able to find a bike shop to help out with an urgent tyre repair/replacement or breakdown. I don't know Haldanes but I gather they sold Ducati and Victory - one less port of call for those owners in need. Stinks.

Being on Owners forums I've noticed NZ is not alone in this. The Yanks seem to be losing bike shops at a rapid rate. It amazes me how far some of the MV owners must go to buy and get a service. Shit, too far for me.

I also think the manufacturers are offering us too much choice, too many models/variants. Great for us buyers but there must be a cost to the distributors and shops

roogazza

2nd February 2013, 09:06

Sad state of affairs MD. So glad we had the boom and best years.
I'm on bike number 50 and the way the value has gone out of it, it will probably be my last ?
I won't sell it I don't think, just hang it on the wall or turn it into a coffee table !! lol.

See you out early tomorrow huh ?

2nd February 2013, 09:23

DMNTD

2nd February 2013, 09:41

Good luck

They were pretty bare yesterday

They certainly aren't answering their phone.

Madness

2nd February 2013, 12:22

They certainly aren't answering their phone.

Caller I.D?

DMNTD

2nd February 2013, 12:39

Caller I.D?

Good point, I was using your phone

Madness

2nd February 2013, 12:40

Good point, I was using your phone

Damn, was it in your bedroom? I must have left it there when you were at work yesterday.

DMNTD

2nd February 2013, 12:42

Damn, was it in your bedroom? I must have left it there when you were at work yesterday.

Phew...no wonder my missus appreciates my adult size

Ocean1

2nd February 2013, 12:48

I think you answered your own question and that's IMHO a very fair approach to take. It's unfortunate that the disparity is so huge in some cases and no-one would be reasonable to ask that you'd fork out such huge amounts. It's the mentality of "fuckin dealerships are ripping us all off, I'll just go online for a fucking spark plug" that irks me as we're writing ourselves off as a country wihout giving it a fair go in too many instances.

Some of the massive variations in price are driven by what mass (auto) production has done for production costs and the change in marketing models. Couple of decades ago there was a direct link between the cost of production and the market price, that's not true anymore. Partly because of natural barriers to entering the manufacuting game, and partly due to the advanced protectionist practices of the big players in modern markets.

That plug you're taliking about probably cost less than 20c to make, certainly less than a dollar. Add multiple distribution and tax costs and it should be available to you for $2. That's a reality only if you can access the manufacturer or his immediate distribution network, otherwise the price is driven solely by what you're prepared to pay. If you want a "fair market price" you've first got to know what shit costs to make, then you might want to start dismantling the monopolies that siphon off massive profits while doing nothing to contribute to the product's value.

I've been associated with manufacturing all my adult life, it's an absolute bitch knowing roughly what everything you buy cost to make while peeling off ten times that from your wallet. I've given up hope we'll ever get to call the big distributor's bluff.

Madness

2nd February 2013, 12:50

Phew...no wonder my missus appreciates my adult size

Yeah, she mentioned that you're a tad self-conscious about that. Chin up, "big guy" :niceone:

Madness

2nd February 2013, 12:55

Some of the massive variations in price are driven by what mass (auto) production has done for production costs and the change in marketing models. Couple of decades ago there was a direct link between the cost of production and the market price, that's not true anymore. Partly because of natural barriers to entering the manufacuting game, and partly due to the advanced protectionist practices of the big players in modern markets.

That plug you're taliking about probably cost less than 20c to make, certainly less than a dollar. Add multiple distribution and tax costs and it should be available to you for $2. That's a reality only if you can access the manufacturer or his immediate distribution network, otherwise the price is driven solely by what you're prepared to pay. If you want a "fair market price" you've first got to know what shit costs to make, then you might want to start dismantling the monopolies that siphon off massive profits while doing nothing to contribute to the product's value.

I've been associated with manufacturing all my adult life, it's an absolute bitch knowing roughly what everything you buy cost to make while peeling off ten times that from your wallet. I've given up hope we'll ever get to call the big distributor's bluff.

You're absolutely correct.

As an aside, I worked for a multi-national tobacco company for a number of years. A pack of 20 cigarettes that retails for NZ $18.00 today costs around $0.35 to produce at the factory door. Quite un-related to the topic at hand but a startling situation, none the less.

skippa1

2nd February 2013, 13:17

Good luck

They were pretty bare yesterday

They were closed but I talked with the landlord. He tells me that someone involved with Triumph NZ is taking over the shop and it will be open for business later this week. I note that all the Victories are gone except for one clients bike and all the Victory clothing has gone too. It was a shock to staff and the landlord by the sounds....hope it gets up and running again this week.....I need oil and havent investigated any alternatives yet.....

PrincessBandit

2nd February 2013, 13:30

That's a real shame - got my bandit from them, also Balu's first Burgman. Unfortunately once Ramon left, we went to Colemans for our bike servicing.

I really liked the guys in Haldanes but I guess it's a sorry sign of the times. I wish them all well in whatever they do next. :bye:

Big Dave

2nd February 2013, 15:10

Bummer. My dealings with the guys there were always pleasant. It's a storied name in racing and sponsorship too.
Stressful times for them and their customers.

I can't believe the difference over this side of the ditch. Went looking for a spare part for my Helmet this morning and the bike shops and the whole Moss St precinct was humming - people and motorcycles everywhere. Some manufacturers having record - like 'best ever' - months.

Strange that it is so different. Other day-to-day doesn't seem so.

wysper

2nd February 2013, 15:36

You're absolutely correct.

As an aside, I worked for a multi-national tobacco company for a number of years. A pack of 20 cigarettes that retails for NZ $18.00 today costs around $0.35 to produce at the factory door. Quite un-related to the topic at hand but a startling situation, none the less.

I can see your point here. But on the other had, on that products journey to a much higher price (and I am not talking just ciggies here) it keeps many people in jobs.

Couriers, shipping compaines, advertising people, shop staff, importers, exporters and the list goes on.
So I would say it is a massive double edged sword. Chop out the myriad of middle men and sure the price is much cheaper but then the vast majority of your target market is unemployed and can't afford your widget. You have no back up if something happens to your widget. etc.

Just playing devils advocate here.

Crasherfromwayback

2nd February 2013, 15:37

I can't believe the difference over this side of the ditch. Went looking for a spare part for my Helmet this morning and the bike shops and the whole Moss St precinct was humming - people and motorcycles everywhere. Some manufacturers having record - like 'best ever' - months.

Strange that it is so different. Other day-to-day doesn't seem so.

Yeah we can only hope it eventually flows on over here. I enjoyed my time working in that area when I was over there.

Madness

2nd February 2013, 15:47

I can see your point here.

Yes, you can by the sounds of it. In this economic climate I'm quite happy to reasonably pay more locally than I could if I was to privately import because it's keeping the local market ticking over. Quite often buying locally also comes with additional benefits, including being covered by the Consumers Guarantee Act, being able to try items on/out before purchasing and having access to convenient exchange/swap should the need arise.

Again, for those who haven't read this thread in it's entirety, I'm not suggesting that this would have made a difference to Haldanes closing. It's simply an area we as consumers should be taking into consideration when buying bits for our bikes, etc. It's the thin end of the wedge but if we don't start supporting these businesses more they will soon all disappear.

I'm amazed at some of the responses in this thread to be honest. The general feeling out there suggests to me that retailers in this country are in for a tough ride ahead still and we're going to see a lot more closures & job losses this year. And some have the stupidity to label that progress.

:facepalm:

sugilite

2nd February 2013, 17:30

The only thing that's simple here is people like you & your narrow-minded "all about me" mentality.

Time to stop denying it just so you feel better about having saved $100 on a pair of thermal underwear or summat at the expense of a New Zealanders job.

Matey.

I recently replaced all my old riding gear, my gloves and boots had holes in them, a flogged out helmet, my 25 year old back protector had cloth that looked like pantyhose holding it together and leathers that were very very tired. I'm going racing again (on the cheap in posties class) and needed new gear. I got very high quality gear, in some cases (gloves/back chest protector) the very best and it was not $100 that I saved, it was well over $1500. So when I'm on a tight budget, my personal safety is most definitely all about me. I'll be buggered if I will compromise on safety so I can possibly lie in a hospital bed with a shredded body because all I could afford at NZ bike shops is the lowest quality safety kit. I make no apologies by making it all about me in this regard. I understand why your upset, this importation mentality (for everything) is a world wide phenomenon that will only change from a Worldwide catastrophic event, not from me or other individuals compromising on their safety in a vain attempt to keep shops with out dated business models afloat.

Ocean1

2nd February 2013, 17:32

I can see your point here. But on the other had, on that products journey to a much higher price (and I am not talking just ciggies here) it keeps many people in jobs.

Couriers, shipping compaines, advertising people, shop staff, importers, exporters and the list goes on.
So I would say it is a massive double edged sword. Chop out the myriad of middle men and sure the price is much cheaper but then the vast majority of your target market is unemployed and can't afford your widget. You have no back up if something happens to your widget. etc.

Just playing devils advocate here.

Good thing you're not doing it professionally.

The massive difference there is they're not actually doing anything to add value to the product. They're parasites. At least on the dole we could point at them and say: Oh look, a dole bludger!

Madness

2nd February 2013, 17:46

I recently replaced all my old riding gear... it was not $100 that I saved, it was well over $1500

And good on you for saving so much, honestly. You obviously did your research before buying and that kind of disparity makes buying from overseas to good to overlook. Did you end up paying duties & GST?

this importation mentality (for everything) is a world wide phenomenon that will only change from a Worldwide catastrophic event, not from me or other individuals compromising on their safety in a vain attempt to keep shops with out dated business models afloat.

I'm certainly not asking anyone to compromise their safety and it's not about outdated business models. If the bike shops in this country are operating out of an outdated business model perhaps they should all just close up shop on Monday & be done with it. That's in effect what you're saying.

My point is about the trend to buy offshore having a negative effect on the available choice and competition in the local market place. The global nature of this phenomenon will have a disproportionate effect on our own local markets due to our isolation and small size compared to the Americas, Europe, Asia & even Australia.

It doesn't have to black & white people.

sugilite

2nd February 2013, 18:16

Did you end up paying duties & GST?

I did do a lot of research 1st. No I did not pay any duty or GST. I worked out the flat rate shipping of approx $23 nzd was a lot cheaper than paying duty, so I made several orders 7 days apart. Worked a charm.

If the bike shops in this country are operating out of an outdated business model perhaps they should all just close up shop on Monday & be done with it. That's in effect what you're saying.

Yes, sadly that is what I'm saying. That is not what I would choose, it is just an unfortunate statement on the current state of how things are. Not every shop will close, as not everyone buys their stuff off the net, and a by product of it all will be bike prices and servicing prices may have to go up to compensate for the lost revenue on accessories. I don't profess to have the answer to it all. I run an online business and the irony is I cannot survive selling my product in NZ as they do not have the same appreciation for my line as what overseas people do. I totally depend on overseas sales. I too have had the problem where suddenly entire lines become cheaper elsewhere and I cannot compete. I do not blame my customers for not buying from me, I just take it on the chin and drop that line and move on, innovate and so on.

My point is about the trend to buy offshore having a negative effect on the available choice and competition in the local market place. The global nature of this phenomenon will have a disproportionate effect on our own local markets due to our isolation and small size compared to the Americas, Europe, Asia & even Australia.

I do not entirely agree here, buying online overseas in fact opened up entire ranges that have always been unavailable to me at NZ shops. Swings and round abouts and all that. The online world now enables me as a buyer to be on equal footing with American and European customers. That was just a dream 10 years ago.

On a human level, I so agree with near everything you have to say, this "disposable" way of living is not sustainable, but we as individuals have to live in this framework until something major happens. I recycle all I can, and support NZ business when it is not contrary to my safety, but that is just a small drop in a very large ocean.
btw, sorry bout the multi quote thing, but you made three very good points that I wanted to respond to in turn.

Madness

2nd February 2013, 18:27

...buying online overseas in fact opened up entire ranges that have always been unavailable to me at NZ shops. Swings and round abouts and all that. The online world now enables me as a buyer to be on equal footing with American and European customers. That was just a dream 10 years ago.

Great, innit? Pity it's going to cost Kiwi jobs ultimately. Swings & roundabouts though, eh?

On a human level, I so agree with near everything you have to say...

Which is cool, particularly in light of your own personal interest in the subject, which to some could be seen as a conflict of interest, perhaps?

sugilite

2nd February 2013, 18:32

Great, innit? Pity it's going to cost Kiwi jobs ultimately. Swings & roundabouts eh?

Yes, it is inevitable kiwi jobs will be lost. Kiwis will have to find other ways to make money in this ever changing World. This sort of thing has been happening for eons. Kick and scream all you like, it will not change anything.

Which is cool, particularly in light of your own personal interest in the subject, which to some could be seen as a conflict of interest, perhaps?

I have absolutely no idea what you are referring too here.

Madness

2nd February 2013, 18:41

I have absolutely no idea what you are referring too here.

You sell stuff online, presumably competing with rivals who operate under a more traditional out of date business model with staff, a shop that you can walk into IRL and the overheads that come with that. I'm not saying you're a bad man, just that you might not be so keen on people supporting traditional out of date local suppliers of the same product simply for the sake of preserving the health of our local economy. Again, I'm not suggesting a compromise on safety or spending what one cannot afford.

I know nothing of your business and the above is pure speculation. It is however a case of old Vs. new and some of us quite like the idea of bike shops being around in a year or two.

sugilite

2nd February 2013, 18:56

You sell stuff online, presumably competing with rivals who operate under a more traditional out of date business model with staff, a shop that you can walk into IRL and the overheads that come with that. I'm not saying you're a bad man, just that you might not be so keen on people supporting traditional out of date local suppliers of the same product simply for the sake of preserving the health of our local economy. Again, I'm not suggesting a compromise on safety or spending what one cannot afford.

I know nothing of your business and the above is pure speculation. It is however a case of old Vs. new and some of us quite like the idea of bike shops being around in a year or two.

Yeah, speculation is a bit pointless in this case lol. I sell crystals, rocks and minerals online, top end stuff you are unlikely to find in a shop. The majority of buyers would prefer to buy from a shop so they can pick up a specimen and examine it closely, rather than rely solely on photos. The only way they can these specialized items is pretty much through me, at a reasonable price I might add. I obtain these items myself through contacts I have built up painstakingly over the last 20 years. I'm regarded in several lines as being the worlds leading authority, even google agrees :laugh: So no, I are not doing anyone out of a job and nor do I have a conflict of interest. Buying a shoei helmet gives you 100's of outlets, try buying a rutilated kunzite specimen, or a ancient knowledge elestial crystal off anyone other than me may pose some severe problems. Many of the miners I support are family operations, and I pay them more than rip off middle men who look to exploit them. Oh, I also bring in a fair amount of US dollars to the country, not that they are worth that much these days!

jafar

2nd February 2013, 19:11

Sad to hear that another bike shop has closed, especially one as well known & respected as Haldanes,they seemed to have been around for ever. I too have memories of drooling over some of the bikes they had for sale over the years. always a good experience visiting the shop, even if it was only to 'have a look' . Good luck to Chris & the team in their future endeavours.

Brian d marge

2nd February 2013, 21:30

Yeah, speculation is a bit pointless in this case lol. I sell crystals, rocks and minerals online, top end stuff you are unlikely to find in a shop. The majority of buyers would prefer to buy from a shop so they can pick up a specimen and examine it closely, rather than rely solely on photos. The only way they can these specialized items is pretty much through me, at a reasonable price I might add. I obtain these items myself through contacts I have built up painstakingly over the last 20 years. I'm regarded in several lines as being the worlds leading authority, even google agrees :laugh: So no, I are not doing anyone out of a job and nor do I have a conflict of interest. Buying a shoei helmet gives you 100's of outlets, try buying a rutilated kunzite specimen, or a ancient knowledge elestial crystal off anyone other than me may pose some severe problems. Many of the miners I support are family operations, and I pay them more than rip off middle men who look to exploit them. Oh, I also bring in a fair amount of US dollars to the country, not that they are worth that much these days!
I've been looking for a source for crystals , a kilo of the amphetamine kind , if they are in stock
Stephen

PS my good friend also in the same line of work , gemview in chch , he does some amazing things with crystals polished stones ,,,,,,,,

Crasherfromwayback

2nd February 2013, 22:16

Dead meat...

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/vtJ2f8_lfn4?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

sugilite

2nd February 2013, 23:21

I've been looking for a source for crystals , a kilo of the amphetamine kind , if they are in stock
Stephen

PS my good friend also in the same line of work , gemview in chch , he does some amazing things with crystals polished stones ,,,,,,,,

Not my line lol
Yes, I'm very sure I bought my bowenite pendant off him, the rarest form of pounamu. Maori's call it tangiwai stone, the crying stone, the woman in particular that know of it really freak out on it. It is totally transparent and has blue as well as green. I had a fascinating talk with him. A very knowledgeable and talented man, great guy to boot.

trustme

3rd February 2013, 07:36

SMOKEU

3rd February 2013, 08:01

While it's sad to see shops go bust, it's no surprise that these things happen when the shops charge like a wounded bull for even small things compared to eBay.

nzspokes

3rd February 2013, 08:19

I'll just go online for a fucking spark plug

When you can buy a full set for the cost of one here it seems like a good idea to me. :woohoo:

BoristheBiter

3rd February 2013, 08:32

I have no real knowledge of the ins & outs of the mcycle retail business ,but when I went into Haldanes very recently for the first time in a couple of years I was surprised to see no Suzukis.
I wondered then how they would fare with 2 niche brands & no volume seller like the Suzukis should have been.

I think was was some bad blood over that as if your bike (suzuki) was under warranty and they did the service SNZ would not recognise it had been serviced.

Our two bikes were so we started taking them to Coleman's. But too slow and too expensive and not without errors has mad us look elsewhere without much sucess.
Luckily we have been dirt riding so they haven't needed a service in a while.

(to everyone)
But to the topic at hand, yes the bike shops need to change but they also need to make money or there is no reason to exist. you wouldn't go to work for free/cheap wages just to keep a business going so don't expect a bussiness just to operate to give you free gear/service/bikes.
The main problem is the bike market here is so small.

davereid

3rd February 2013, 08:35

It's not going to get any better when twats keep buying stuff on the net from overseas for small personal financial gains.

It would help if NZ could even start to be competitive.

The NC700 is $12500 in NZ with the ABS stripped off when its standard in most countries. In the USA the MSRP is $US6995, and no one ever pays MSRP.

I see after 40 odd years, Roger Hinton has closed Levin Motorcycles as well. He is another big loss to the industry.

BMWST?

3rd February 2013, 08:38

The main problem is the bike market here is so small.

and the importer s of the bikes themselves and the importers of the bike gear work on business models that dont allow the bike shops to get the best deals themselves .

Crasherfromwayback

3rd February 2013, 08:57

When you can buy a full set for the cost of one here it seems like a good idea to me. :woohoo:

Maybe. But don't going crying to us next time you need a bike repaired for an insurance claim and there are no shops around to do it!

Digitdion

3rd February 2013, 08:58

and the importer s of the bikes themselves and the importers of the bike gear work on business models that dont allow the bike shops to get the best deals themselves .

You have hit the nail on the head! In the future I can see 2 option s for a business model moving forward. Either the wholesaler goes, and the retailer gets there stuff direct from manufacturer.I doubt if this will happen.

Or the wholesalers bring them selves out of the shadows and start retailing. I would expect that this would only happen after most retailers have gone bust.

It's called evolution.

Ocean1

3rd February 2013, 09:13

It would help if NZ could even start to be competitive.

Tell me about it!

US RRP prices for the KTM 990 Adv and BMW 1200 GS are both under US$15k.

The 990 here is NZ$22500 and you'll struggle to find a GS for under NZ$30k.

And I can't see so called economies of scale having fuck all to do with it. A container full of either might cost an extra $1k to land here, that puts an extra $100 on each bike. No doubt there's differences in duty/tax, but none of that comes close to explaining it. Where does the rest come from?

Seriously, who's ripping off NZ, here? Because I see an issue here more important than any lack of support for local retailers, it's the standard of living for the whole country that's affected.

Katman

3rd February 2013, 09:30

Seriously, who's ripping off NZ, here?

It's certainly not the retailer.

Ocean1

3rd February 2013, 09:39

It's certainly not the retailer.

I think you're right. And what's more the retailer's are under far more pressure to compete, there's always another shop a couple of towns away at most, whereas the distributors have an effective monopoly. So, how much overall margin is there on, say a 1200 GS from the factory to the showroom here? Based on those US prices you'd have to say it's at least 100%. Now that pisses me off.

Zedder

3rd February 2013, 10:06

You have hit the nail on the head! In the future I can see 2 option s for a business model moving forward. Either the wholesaler goes, and the retailer gets there stuff direct from manufacturer.I doubt if this will happen.

Or the wholesalers bring them selves out of the shadows and start retailing. I would expect that this would only happen after most retailers have gone bust.

It's called evolution.

Yep, the wholesaler-turned-retailer has certainly been happening in other industries for a while so it could very well be applied to this case.

ktm84mxc

3rd February 2013, 10:20

I'd suggest if you wanted a BMW GS fly to the US buy one do a 3-4 wk tour and bring it back, you should be exempt from US duties as it will be exported etc.
The prices vary as it's economy of scale the US is the worlds biggest market and as such can dictate to the manufacturer the price its willing to pay.
The only shops that seem to be surviving are the rural ones maybe there over heads are way less, in the big city's it can cost 2.5-3 g a week just to keep the doors open let alone have staff on to meet the customers.
Economies follow a pattern first its walk, horse and dray, bicycle, motorbike, car for personal transport . A classic case is China .

trustme

3rd February 2013, 10:28

I've always thought that Cycletreads was really just Northern Accessories retail division. Whites sell on line through ' bits for bikes '. The wholesalers already deal direct.

trustme

3rd February 2013, 10:32

BMWST?

3rd February 2013, 10:40

I think you're right. And what's more the retailer's are under far more pressure to compete, there's always another shop a couple of towns away at most, whereas the distributors have an effective monopoly. So, how much overall margin is there on, say a 1200 GS from the factory to the showroom here? Based on those US prices you'd have to say it's at least 100%. Now that pisses me off.

i dont know .i doubt if bmw bikes come into NZ a container at a time.I also beleive that the price for a bike is set even before the bike is released to market Its alos hard to compare prices from market to market.For expample the super ten is cheaper than a 1200 gs in america but in britain a s10 is more expensive than a base model gs.Its also hard to say what a 1200 gs from market to market as they can have so many options.The retail price of every bike is way less in the US.I dont know what the reason is but i bet that motomart dont have a 100 percent margin in a new 1200gs.BMW bikes come under the umbrella of Aussie

scracha

3rd February 2013, 10:43

Yep, the wholesaler-turned-retailer has certainly been happening in other industries for a while so it could very well be applied to this case.

Like other industries, the small independent bike shops will have to change their business model or die. They'll still make their money on accessories, servicing and used bikes etc but sales of new bikes are pretty much a waste of time for the wee guys. Even servicing is going to as some brands of bike require so much investment in both knowledge and specialised tools to service them. The bike brands / wholesalers / disti's that don't accommodate their dealers needs (a.k.a. making money) will find their more intelligent dealers simply dropping them and/or parallel importing themselves.

Replace the word "bike" with quite a few other commodities at the moment and you'll get the idea. Want to have a vast array of items to choose from, you go to a pile em high style chain store. Want to get knowledgable advice and servicing, you go to a specialist. The specialist will simply charge you for their time. Good customers recognise repeated good service and many will still likely order their new shiny motorcycle from the local bike shop (even if it's not currently in stock) so long as the price is in the correct ballpark.

Don't expect to be able to pop into your local bike shop and test ride or buy the latest shiny motorcycle. I'd imagine sites like the following will become more common and dealers will simply be loaned the bikes for you to try out (and subsequently buy).
http://www.suzuki.co.nz/Motorcycle/Street/GSX1250FA/Test-Ride/

And yeah bar Suzuki (yuk :sick:)...NZ prices are generally shite. I'm surprised someone isn't parallel importing crate-loads of Yamahas and Hondas and setting up a channel with dealers not restricted by a franchise restriction.

sugilite

3rd February 2013, 11:07

I suspect the rural guys survive on the sale & service of quads to cocky's.

Yes they do totally make their $$ out of cocky atv sales and servicing. When we had a big drought here a few years back, the cocky's stopped bringing the quads in, it almost sent the 3 bike shops in dvke down.
They don't often have interesting road bikes though. I get my fix from going to the big bike shops in wellies. I think people are being a bit dramatic to say all the bike shops will close. For sure some will, but then the other remaining ones will pick up their business and eventually and equilibrium will be found. Thinking of no crasher bad coffees at Wellington Motorcycles sends a shiver down my spine, but there is no way Gary Gill would let that happen, he is to astute a business man.

Crasherfromwayback

3rd February 2013, 11:11

Thinking of no crasher bad coffees at Wellington Motorcycles sends a shiver down my spine, but there is no way Gary Gill would let that happen, he is to astute a business man to let that happen.

lol. Yeah can't see me or my coffees going anywhere anytime soon.

BMWST?

3rd February 2013, 11:15

Like other industries, the small independent bike shops will have to change their business model or die. They'll still make their money on accessories, servicing and used bikes etc but sales of new bikes are pretty much a waste of time for the wee guys. Even servicing is going to as some brands of bike require so much investment in both knowledge and specialised tools to service them. The bike brands / wholesalers / disti's that don't accommodate their dealers needs (a.k.a. making money) will find their more intelligent dealers simply dropping them and/or parallel importing themselves.

Replace the word "bike" with quite a few other commodities at the moment and you'll get the idea. Want to have a vast array of items to choose from, you go to a pile em high style chain store. Want to get knowledgable advice and servicing, you go to a specialist. The specialist will simply charge you for their time. Good customers recognise repeated good service and many will still likely order their new shiny motorcycle from the local bike shop (even if it's not currently in stock) so long as the price is in the correct ballpark.

Don't expect to be able to pop into your local bike shop and test ride or buy the latest shiny motorcycle. I'd imagine sites like the following will become more common and dealers will simply be loaned the bikes for you to try out (and subsequently buy).
http://www.suzuki.co.nz/Motorcycle/Street/GSX1250FA/Test-Ride/

And yeah bar Suzuki (yuk :sick:)...NZ prices are generally shite. I'm surprised someone isn't parallel importing crate-loads of Yamahas and Hondas and setting up a channel with dealers not restricted by a franchise restriction.

This is where the bike shops dont have a choice They simply cant get their bikes through any other channels.You might be able to buy some new Honda s say from a US dealer once,But i bet it wont happen a second time.And there is justification for it,the NZ distributors for each brand have a lot of investment in infrastructure alone.The ONLY similar industry i can think of would be boats/PWC....whats those industries like at the mo?
They probably cant get their gear anywhere else either as the NZ distributors have the sole rights to their brands in NZ

pritch

3rd February 2013, 11:32

These KB discussions can be entertaining but I can't seem to remember one that resulted in anybody changing their mind.

In 1960 there were, I think, three dealers in town here. Two were in the main street, one just a few yards away.
None were big. The smallest was the AJS/Matchless and later Suzuki dealer. It was pretty much a one-man band. The owner was the manager, the salesman, parts man, and mechanic, he probably did the bookwork too. There was usually also an apprentice. The other dealers would not have been much bigger.

Twenty years ago, other dealerships had sprung up but the Suzuki dealer (then also Ducati, BMW, and Husqvarna) still trading under the same name, employed the owners: husband and wife, an office girl, one or sometimes two salesmen, parts man, several mechanics and a gofer. At the time the thought occurred to me that business had better stay good. It didn't. That dealership has gone. So have some others.

The three surviving dealerships have quite large premises away from the main street. One has some 68 bikes on the floor.

In the rural areas I suspect that it is the farm bike sales that are keeping the dealerships ticking over. It certainly isn't road bike sales. The Honda dealers have my sympathy, tied as they are to an importer that refuses to import most of the road bike range.

So it may be that we are on our way back to the future; smaller and leaner. The slimmed down operations could probably move back to the main street too, God knows there are enough empty shops.

Seems like it isn't a great time to be in the industry which is a pity 'cause there are some good people in it. Here's hoping things look up in the near future.

Zedder

3rd February 2013, 11:33

Like other industries, the small independent bike shops will have to change their business model or die. They'll still make their money on accessories, servicing and used bikes etc but sales of new bikes are pretty much a waste of time for the wee guys. Even servicing is going to as some brands of bike require so much investment in both knowledge and specialised tools to service them. The bike brands / wholesalers / disti's that don't accommodate their dealers needs (a.k.a. making money) will find their more intelligent dealers simply dropping them and/or parallel importing themselves.

Replace the word "bike" with quite a few other commodities at the moment and you'll get the idea. Want to have a vast array of items to choose from, you go to a pile em high style chain store. Want to get knowledgable advice and servicing, you go to a specialist. The specialist will simply charge you for their time. Good customers recognise repeated good service and many will still likely order their new shiny motorcycle from the local bike shop (even if it's not currently in stock) so long as the price is in the correct ballpark.

Don't expect to be able to pop into your local bike shop and test ride or buy the latest shiny motorcycle. I'd imagine sites like the following will become more common and dealers will simply be loaned the bikes for you to try out (and subsequently buy).
http://www.suzuki.co.nz/Motorcycle/Street/GSX1250FA/Test-Ride/

And yeah bar Suzuki (yuk :sick:)...NZ prices are generally shite. I'm surprised someone isn't parallel importing crate-loads of Yamahas and Hondas and setting up a channel with dealers not restricted by a franchise restriction.

Even though these are used bikes, this is what I'm talking about as a possibility for NZ with new bikes:http://www.proud2ridemotorcycles.com/motorcycle-export

Ocean1

3rd February 2013, 11:46

i dont know .i doubt if bmw bikes come into NZ a container at a time.

How do they come in, then? It's almost certainly inside a container, so the cost of transport will be the same per bike whether the container's full of bikes or one bike and a thousand soft toys.

I also beleive that the price for a bike is set even before the bike is released to market

What's that got to do with the huge differences in prices across those markets?

Its alos hard to compare prices from market to market.For expample the super ten is cheaper than a 1200 gs in america but in britain a s10 is more expensive than a base model gs.

Yes. That's what I said, the prices are all over the place.

Its also hard to say what a 1200 gs from market to market as they can have so many options.

The prices I compared were essentiall the same basic bikes. Top of the line R1200 GS is similarly much dearer here.

The retail price of every bike is way less in the US.

Yeah, that's what I said. Why?

i bet that motomart dont have a 100 percent margin in a new 1200gs.BMW bikes come under the umbrella of Aussie

So who does have a margin of 100% on a new 1200 gs here? Someone, or a collection of someones does. You're suggesting the Aussies have something to do with it?

It's far too easy to wave it off as very complicated and to do with market forces we can't guess at and wouldn't understand. And there's certainly an element of size of the individual order and of the overall market in setting purchase price ex factory. But 140% to 200%? Fuck off, if I wanted one and couldn't go around the national distributor to the US or UK then I wouldn't be buying one on principle, even if I could afford it.

BoristheBiter

3rd February 2013, 13:18

and the importer s of the bikes themselves and the importers of the bike gear work on business models that dont allow the bike shops to get the best deals themselves .

Again, because we are so small the importers either have to "piggyback" off an Australian supplier so have two lots of import and freight hence the higher price of they do buy direct and have to pay higher as it isn't a large order.

All this talk of bike price difference is strange as when we were in Melbourne the price of KTM bikes where basically the same as here (but in $aus),
Also all the gear was the same as well just more choice.

SPman

3rd February 2013, 13:51

BMWST?

3rd February 2013, 13:53

How do they come in, then? It's almost certainly inside a container, so the cost of transport will be the same per bike whether the container's full of bikes or one bike and a thousand soft toys.

What's that got to do with the huge differences in prices across those markets?

Yes. That's what I said, the prices are all over the place.

The prices I compared were essentiall the same basic bikes. Top of the line R1200 GS is similarly much dearer here.

Yeah, that's what I said. Why?

So who does have a margin of 100% on a new 1200 gs here? Someone, or a collection of someones does. You're suggesting the Aussies have something to do with it?

It's far too easy to wave it off as very complicated and to do with market forces we can't guess at and wouldn't understand. And there's certainly an element of size of the individual order and of the overall market in setting purchase price ex factory. But 140% to 200%? Fuck off, if I wanted one and couldn't go around the national distributor to the US or UK then I wouldn't be buying one on principle, even if I could afford it.

I was trying to make some arguments,but i dont actually know WHY either

Crasherfromwayback

3rd February 2013, 14:13

and the whole feel of the place was bad......like a third world, low wage economy! .

That's bullshit. It is what you make it. NZ is a fucking awesome place to live.

BoristheBiter

3rd February 2013, 14:14

You don't think it's got anything to do with the NZ economy being totally fucked, a gov that can't be fucked doing anything about it and, luckily for the economy, 100,000
+ people have buggered off to Aus.? Imagine if they were all still in NZ and most were on the dole! More and more people have less and less money to get by on.......bike shops aren't the only businesses falling over, nasty though it may be. Richard was always good to deal with!
Had a cousin sell up in Perth and move back to NZ middle of last year. She'd lived and worked overseas for 20 odd yrs......after 6 months, she's packing up again and moving back to Oz - she was shocked at how bad it actually is there, now. Couldn't get a job, wages offered were crap, and the whole feel of the place was bad......like a third world, low wage economy! Family and country ties aren't enough to keep her there (she's Maori)....and it's going to get worse for most of you........

Prices in Aus - new are cheaper than NZ in aus dollars, but, in aus, we are paid in aus dollars, and normally more of them.......

Don't know what part of the workforce you or your cousin are in but are now back to above pre 2009 levels and it is getting better.
But I have heard of a few coming back here and lasting about 6 months as the can't be bothered with the laziness and whining of some people.
Guess it just comes down to whom you surround yourself with and how you look at life, I Listen to the fiance report in the morning on ZB and from since the downturn happened the report has said we don't have it bad here and most company's are still making a profit so it can't be that fucked.
Maybe you should stop believing all that Labour and the greens say, or the naysayers on KB.

So the way I look at it is I still have a choice of which bike I will get on today and where shall I go riding, and for how long It can't be that bad.
Besides ever paid for a track day in Aussie? now that's something that is way cheaper here.

Madness

3rd February 2013, 14:14

When you can buy a full set for the cost of one here it seems like a good idea to me. :woohoo:

Yeah we'll you've never struck me as being the sharpest tool in the shed so that comes as no surprise.

Zedder

3rd February 2013, 15:02

Don't know what part of the workforce you or your cousin are in but are now back to above pre 2009 levels and it is getting better.
But I have heard of a few coming back here and lasting about 6 months as the can't be bothered with the laziness and whining of some people.
Guess it just comes down to whom you surround yourself with and how you look at life, I Listen to the fiance report in the morning on ZB and from since the downturn happened the report has said we don't have it bad here and most company's are still making a profit so it can't be that fucked.
Maybe you should stop believing all that Labour and the greens say, or the naysayers on KB.

So the way I look at it is I still have a choice of which bike I will get on today and where shall I go riding, and for how long It can't be that bad.
Besides ever paid for a track day in Aussie? now that's something that is way cheaper here.

You and Crasher said it well. I've lived and worked in a few diverse countries and enjoyed them all, but for a country with fuck all people etc, NZ is doing alright and getting better as you wrote.

I didn't know there was a fiance report on ZB though, Kiwi girls should be very pleased about that...

gammaguy

3rd February 2013, 16:08

I did do a lot of research 1st. No I did not pay any duty or GST. I worked out the flat rate shipping of approx $23 nzd was a lot cheaper than paying duty, so I made several orders 7 days apart. Worked a charm.

Yes, sadly that is what I'm saying. That is not what I would choose, it is just an unfortunate statement on the current state of how things are. Not every shop will close, as not everyone buys their stuff off the net, and a by product of it all will be bike prices and servicing prices may have to go up to compensate for the lost revenue on accessories. I don't profess to have the answer to it all. I run an online business and the irony is I cannot survive selling my product in NZ as they do not have the same appreciation for my line as what overseas people do. I totally depend on overseas sales. I too have had the problem where suddenly entire lines become cheaper elsewhere and I cannot compete. I do not blame my customers for not buying from me, I just take it on the chin and drop that line and move on, innovate and so on.

I do not entirely agree here, buying online overseas in fact opened up entire ranges that have always been unavailable to me at NZ shops. Swings and round abouts and all that. The online world now enables me as a buyer to be on equal footing with American and European customers. That was just a dream 10 years ago.

On a human level, I so agree with near everything you have to say, this "disposable" way of living is not sustainable, but we as individuals have to live in this framework until something major happens. I recycle all I can, and support NZ business when it is not contrary to my safety, but that is just a small drop in a very large ocean.
btw, sorry bout the multi quote thing, but you made three very good points that I wanted to respond to in turn.

We are alike in many ways,being early adopters of the online business model

so much of my business now goes overseas,I moved there myself.....

If you.dont ride the train of progress,you get run over by it

In some ways it is sad to see haldanes go,but not totally surprising and they we're selling a luxury product in a country that has less purchasers of that product every day.

They all go to.Aussie...and in my case Singapore

gammaguy

3rd February 2013, 16:13

You have hit the nail on the head! In the future I can see 2 option s for a business model moving forward. Either the wholesaler goes, and the retailer gets there stuff direct from manufacturer.I doubt if this will happen.I

Or the wholesalers bring them selves out of the shadows and start retailing. I would expect that this would only happen after most retailers have gone bust.

It's called evolution.

Waahaaaahaaa

You don't think that's happened already?

Ask any dealer what they think.of the importers retailing in competition to them

Its happening in nz right now

Zedder

3rd February 2013, 16:35

Waahaaaahaaa

You don't think that's happened already?

Ask any dealer what they think.of the importers retailing in competition to them

Its happening in nz right now

Waahaaaahaa yourself. My understanding was Digidion, Scracha and me were writing about those in the industry needing to change business models as a whole. We wrote about possible end scenarios.

Has every dealer and wholesaler changed? No. Does every wholesaler also sell motorbikes? No.

The industry is obviously changing though.

scracha

3rd February 2013, 16:41

You and Crasher said it well. I've lived and worked in a few diverse countries and enjoyed them all, but for a country with fuck all people etc, NZ is doing alright and getting better as you wrote.

I didn't know there was a fiance report on ZB though, Kiwi girls should be very pleased about that...

Who can deny it's a low wage economy here? Most 40 somethings and above are quite settled but most young kiwi's are voting with their feet and not coming back. Head in the sand if you think NZ is getting better.

I wish I knew the answers.

Crasherfromwayback

3rd February 2013, 16:55

Who can deny it's a low wage economy here? Most 40 somethings and above are quite settled but most young kiwi's are voting with their feet and not coming back. Head in the sand if you think NZ is getting better.

I wish I knew the answers.

I didn't deny the low wage bit. What I do deny...is that NZ feels like a third world shithole (I know he didn't use that term). NZ is an incredible place to live. You don't have to earn millions to have a nice lifestyle. You can snowboard one day, swim in the sea the next. We have uncrowded roads to enjoy, a climate that's pretty bloody good and food/wine/beer second to none. Most of the world has been doing it tough in case you haven't noticed, and we're no different.

I know the answer. If you find living here so bad...fuck off.

gammaguy

3rd February 2013, 17:04

gammaguy

3rd February 2013, 17:07

Waahaaaahaa yourself. My understanding was Digidion, Scracha and me were writing about those in the industry needing to change business models as a whole. We wrote about possible end scenarios.

Has every dealer and wholesaler changed? No. Does every wholesaler also sell motorbikes? No.

The industry is obviously changing though.

I am currently in my third decade of working in the motorcycle industry

Clearly your insight into what is really going on is slightly less comprehensive

Zedder

3rd February 2013, 17:09

Who can deny it's a low wage economy here? Most 40 somethings and above are quite settled but most young kiwi's are voting with their feet and not coming back. Head in the sand if you think NZ is getting better.

I wish I knew the answers.

Sure, it's a bit of a low wage economy but let's face it, there's been a bit of a "financial crisis". Also a lot of young Kiwis head off overseas but many come back too.

NZ has actually bucked the global business confidence trend and is ahead of the UK, USA, China and Aussie. Not bad at all.

Money issues aside, we have a lower crime rate, better environment, better education etc. than a lot of so called developed countries.

Madness

3rd February 2013, 17:18

Zedder

3rd February 2013, 17:22

I am currently in my third decade of working in the motorcycle industry

Clearly your insight into what is really going on is slightly less comprehensive

Clearly you're an arrogant arsehole with a crap approach to discussion and I hope you don't treat your customers like you appear as here.

I certainly wouldn't buy off you.

Robert Taylor

3rd February 2013, 17:27

Maybe. But don't going crying to us next time you need a bike repaired for an insurance claim and there are no shops around to do it!

Or a place to go to establish sizing and fit for the motorcycle clothing you are going to buy online.................

Crasherfromwayback

3rd February 2013, 17:50

IM here for the money

If materialism is your main motivator its probably not for you but as far as different values go its hard to beat.

And fair enough too!

Agree 100% there too. But so many people here in NZ bite off way more than they can chew too. They want a flash house in a nice area...but waste money buying the latest 50" plasma TV etc...with Sky...drip up a new Falcon...a VW for the wife...over seas trips, they smoke $100.00 a week worth of tabacco, and drink more than that worth of piss etc etc. My parents were far from well off. But the saved hard out...missed out on all the nice things...and brought their first house in Wainuiomata. Paid it off...moved over the hill to a far nicer place. Paid that off...did likewise. They made it when mortages were 20 odd fucking %.

The major problems the peeps that moan about NZ have, is only a mirror glance away.

boman

3rd February 2013, 17:52

Digitdion

3rd February 2013, 18:02

Crasherfromwayback

3rd February 2013, 18:04

We have a great lifestyle here. Well, I know I do. But lifestyle does have a cost. It's a balancing act. .

We sure as hell do. And I work in the motorcycle industry to boot!

Ocean1

3rd February 2013, 18:06

...and brought their first house in Wainuiomata.

And will the yoof of today accept such massive sacrifices for the greater good?

Will they fuck.

Quite right too.

scumdog

3rd February 2013, 18:08

Or a place to go to establish sizing and fit for the motorcycle clothing you are going to buy online.................

My pet hate #12.

Something I would never do.

Digitdion

3rd February 2013, 18:15

Who can deny it's a low wage economy here? Most 40 somethings and above are quite settled but most young kiwi's are voting with their feet and not coming back. Head in the sand if you think NZ is getting better.

I wish I knew the answers.

Have not most young kiwi's headed over sea's in the past.
We are too small of an economy to affect or influence global economic trends. But we can adapt and make some coin off it moving forward.
We have had the Stone Age, the ice age, medieval times.
The commonwealth, Soviet and US superpowers controlling the world in a major way. Now we move into a time of more change. One of those big shifts is the Technology age. The Internet is a massive part of that when it comes to communication and Retail.
Embrace it, or become extinct.

Madness

3rd February 2013, 18:15

one has to find a niche.

Bollocks. Many successful businesses in this country are operating today after coming in after multiple players had already established. They are successful for many reasons including simply having a better product or by providing a better service. That's hardly a niche.

But lifestyle does have a cost. It's a balancing act.

Yes it is. It's balancing the expectation of being able to visit multiple bike shops to get the best deal versus shafting the lot of them by shopping overseas, often whilst also shafting the country by avoiding tax (the Gubbermints fault entirely, of course). We're getting that balance wrong and bike shops are continuing to drop like flies.

I'm glad that if nothing else, people are discussing this subject and plenty more appear to be reading and I'm sure it's provoking some thought amongst those capable of it. Still though, the Lesbian pics are still bringing in more green, go figure.

Woodman

3rd February 2013, 18:18

wasiler

3rd February 2013, 18:29

Ok, here is a question for all of you, in KB land.

I am after a Akrapovic exhaust system for my 675. Where in this country, is there someone interested enough to help me, can I purchase said exhaust. Full system, from Headers to Muffler. I asked 3 dealers to supply a price. As I was shopping on a Saturday.

After 1 month of waiting with still no answer, from either dealer. I asked a guy in America. Within an hour I had a price. On a weekend there. Saturday to be exact.

Now I still havn't purchased said exhaust. So if you supply me, with a New zealand agent. I will consider buying in New Zealand.
I want to purchase here.

But to put things into perspective. $3000.00NZ dollars for an Arrows System, off Amps. Or $1900.00 NZ overseas. Shipped.

I will not divulge how much The Akrapovic is. I am interested in what happens.

--------------------------------------------------
Don't know about a full exhaust but here is one that you might be able to compare.

Triumph Daytona 675 Slip-on Exhaust by Arrow (A9600199)
Trademe ---- $1189NZ
In the add it states the recommended NZ retail is $1399 (don't know if that is true)

http://www.motovationusa.com/mvstore/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=1239
$749.99 USD ---> $845.25NZD

================================================== ===============
A saving of 1189 - 845.25 = 343.75NZD ....... or ............ a 40% increase off trademe

================================================== ================
If we look at the recommended NZ retail
1399 - 845.25 = 553.75NZD savings ...........or............... a 65% increase from retail (not sure if that is really retail though.

That should give you an "eye deer" of how much it will cost if you use those percentages. It looks like an entrepreneur has gone into business for himself. I wonder why the shops are losing business. Even if that trademe guy was charged GST, with that kind of savings he can still undercut small business. Christ, he is buying at full retail price and can ship it and still make a profit.

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Digitdion

3rd February 2013, 18:31

Or a place to go to establish sizing and fit for the motorcycle clothing you are going to buy online.................

By the time that hAppens some one would have invented a scanning machine that will tell you precisely what size your need, and the fit will be spot on!
Gee when the model T was a best seller who would have thought where cars would end up. Cells phones used to be fucking huge in size just twenty odd years ago. Now I can buy anything online using my phone.
Wouldn't be interesting if there where Internet farming forums around back in the seventies. I wonder what would have been writing then after the Uk said to us thanks for coming!
Economic change is this country is not new.

SPman

3rd February 2013, 18:32

Don't know what part of the workforce you or your cousin are in but are now back to above pre 2009 levels and it is getting better. - not from all the people I hear from - mates, relatives, etc - and no, they aren't lazy whining cunts, either - most of them, like me, have a high work ethic - it's just the jobs /work are not there. - mainly construction/civil/engineering and assorted offshoots, related - tradesmen mainly
But I have heard of a few coming back here and lasting about 6 months as the can't be bothered with the laziness and whining of some people. - you'll always get lazy, whining people - even when times are good - that's nothing new
Guess it just comes down to whom you surround yourself with and how you look at life, - possibly I Listen to the fiance report in the morning on ZB and from since the downturn happened the report has said we don't have it bad here and most company's are still making a profit so it can't be that fucked.
Yep, some are making a profit, banks etc are making record profits - just like the US and UK - doesn't mean a lot down where it hurts, though. Depends what you are involved with. Here in WA, the mining boom is distorting the figures rather a lot - those involved in the mining sector are doing very nicely, a lot of others aren't. I see the richest 100 people in NZ have increased their wealth by 28% last year....yeah - times are tough for them and their hangers on - and that's who the finance reports are aimed at

Maybe you should stop believing all that Labour and the greens say, or the naysayers on KB. - I wouldn't believe much that Labour say, about as much as I'd believe National -and at least the Greens are saying something..... I prefer to find out what's actually going on from sources other than the MSM.

So the way I look at it is I still have a choice of which bike I will get on today and where shall I go riding, and for how long. It can't be that bad. Many people are still doing OK - that doesn't mean that things are overall, OK, or that most people are tickety boo

Besides ever paid for a track day in Aussie? now that's something that is way cheaper here. True - about $200 at Wanneroo Tracktime - a bit cheaper at Collie

NZ is an incredible place to live. etc etc etc
I fully agree - the place is great - I'm a 5th generation euro kiwi. I've done the surf in the morning, snowboard in the afternoon type thing, solitary bike rides up and down the length of the twisty country - It's still home, all my family and friends are still there - it's just that it could be so much better than what it's become the last 6-7 yrs, despite the Economic recession. You don't notice a lot of things about the country until you're outside, looking in.

If you find living here so bad...fuck off.
Oh dear, the exasperated retort of someone who knows they are wrong, but is pissed off about it so shoots the messenger - a common enough reaction.
I did fuck off, but, it wasn't about money (I was earning sufficient), or work (I had a job I enjoyed), or the politics, economy or anything else - it could be said to be the wiles of Eve!.........but.....that's another story.......

Zedder

3rd February 2013, 18:39

Another reason to shop for bike parts/accessories online is the convenience and the information you can get. I quite enjoy surfing for cool bits where I can look at pictures and read reviews etc. I very rarely compare prices.

Its a different shopping experience entirely than going into a bike shop taking up the salespersons time while they look through catalogues and there are other customers waiting to buy stuff when you are just browsing and maybe had no intention buying anything anyway.

Shame the shops are closing, but the market decides who stays and who goes in the long run.

Exactly, the market decides. Here's a couple of questions for bike shop staff: When was the last time (if any) a customer survey was carried out? Is there a written marketing plan in place?

I'm asking because it's obviously tough out there which makes it very important to have an insight into the minds of customers and what they want but also (and this really hurt) Katman red repped me and reckons I know nothing about the situation so this may help me.

Digitdion

3rd February 2013, 18:42

Bollocks. Many successful businesses in this country are operating today after coming in after multiple players had already established. They are successful for many reasons including simply having a better product or by providing a better service. That's hardly a niche.

Forgive me if I am mistaken. But that's what I thought a niche was. Doing something that others are not. Being unique!

Katman

3rd February 2013, 18:44

I'm asking because it's obviously tough out there which makes it very important to have an insight into the minds of customers and what they want but also (and this really hurt) Katman red repped me and reckons I know nothing about the situation so this may help me.

It gratifies me that I made you cry.

Crasherfromwayback

3rd February 2013, 18:44

And will the yoof of today accept such massive sacrifices for the greater good?

Nah. They'd rather wank on about how it's impossible to get ahead here in NZ. Wonder if they've checked out the price of real estate in Sydney...Melborne or London of late?

Ocean1

3rd February 2013, 18:47

Yep, some are making a profit, banks etc are making record profits - just like the US and UK - doesn't mean a lot down where it hurts, though. Depends what you are involved with. Here in WA, the mining boom is distorting the figures rather a lot - those involved in the mining sector are doing very nicely, a lot of others aren't.

Yes, I know WA is doing very well, and Queensland a little less so, but what some here don't get is that every other state is in recession ,(as in an ongoing contracting economy). If Au wasn't a republic Tasmania would be a basket case, and the rest not far behind.

I see the richest 100 people in NZ have increased their wealth by 28% last year....yeah - times are tough for them and their hangers on - and that's who the finance reports are aimed at

Where, exactly did you see that?

Shortie

3rd February 2013, 18:49

Most business's in Nz are going through some sort of evolution, customers are changing their methods, most are doing research online first before coming into the store - not necessarily expecting a better deal though.

One of our local motorbike shops has closed down just recently and I am left with a shop mainly setup for dirt bike riders, so the only way I can sit on a new road bike is to go to a bigger town.

I think his prices are a bit high for consumables compared to the Internet but you have support and experience there, you can't get that on the Internet.

All in all these shops will survive with competition all around them because their customers are loyal, and they adapt quickly.

Robert Taylor

3rd February 2013, 18:50

Robert Taylor

3rd February 2013, 18:52

My pet hate #12.

Something I would never do.

But plenty of people have no reticence in doing so, and no conscience

Madness

3rd February 2013, 18:54

Forgive me if I am mistaken.

Don't sweat the small stuff, Princess. This is the interwebs after all.

But that's what I thought a niche was. Doing something that others are not. Being unique!

McDonalds, Burger King, Wendy's, Carl's Jr. Are eny of them unique? No, they're not, they all offer a similar product at a similar price point. Maccas was here first and the others have since come to do what was already being done by the competition. The taste and quality of the food varies but that's about refining your offering to suit the market. If they wanted to be truly unique and cater to a niche, they'd be offering something along the lines of halal-vegan-virginal lesbian-GE free-burgers.

Crasherfromwayback

3rd February 2013, 18:55

Oh dear, the exasperated retort of someone who knows they are wrong, but is pissed off about it so shoots the messenger - a common enough reaction.
.

Why am I wrong? I love living here. I earn enough (but fuck all by some peoples standards) to live a comfortable fun life. I have some nice motorcycles and live in a nice apartment. I can buy beautiful fresh food of an incredible quality by walking 200m. Yes I pay $2.00 a litre for fuel to feed my thirsty/noisy V8 ute (that other countries wouldn't allow you to own/run), but I've seen it way dearer in Europe.

I can ride my (two stroke) dirtbikes on public beaches if I keep away from the crowds. I can walk the streets at any time of the day or night in total safety.

What's not to like? And I'll repeat what I said before...anyone that finds living here hard should simply fuck off. Saying that hardly makes my opinions wrong despite you thinking so.

Bikemad

3rd February 2013, 19:03

why is it we,as the greatest Dairy Nation on the planet as i am led to believe..............pay more for a litre of fucking milk,grown and processed here so to speak,than we do for a litre of gas,dug up ,refined then sent to our shores??????............somewhere in there is the answer why bike shops are going to be a thing of the past in my opinion

Digitdion

3rd February 2013, 19:03

Don't sweat the small stuff, Princess. This is the interwebs after all.

That's coming from someone who labeled everyone Twats who brought bike stuff off the Internet.
And also you still never answered the question I asked you many pages ago in this thread. Do you do any of your own maintenance on your motorbike? Because you are so passionate about supporting the industry!

Zedder

3rd February 2013, 19:07

It gratifies me that I made you cry.

Cry? Yes, I was crying with laughter Katman. Perhaps a class in sarcasm 101 might help you understand things most people take for granted.

Madness

3rd February 2013, 19:07

That's coming from someone who labeled everyone Twats who brought bike stuff off the Internet.
And also you still never answered the question I asked you many pages ago in this thread. Do you do any of your own maintenance on your motorbike? Because you are so passionate about supporting the industry!

Actually, I labelled people Twats for buying stuff over the internet for small personal financial gain. This last bit is important as it suggests that my stance is towards those who privately import product which is available locally all for just a small price difference in their favour, partly due to the avoidance of tax, and that reason alone.

No I don't, I hardly even wash the thing. My bike is for riding.

Twat.

Digitdion

3rd February 2013, 19:13

No I don't, I hardly even wash the thing. My bike is for riding.

Twat.

Back at you Twat! With a capital T. You must be a politician!

Madness

3rd February 2013, 19:18

Back at you Twat! With a capital T. You must be a politician!

I said it first so that makes you a big fatty nit-head :woohoo:

Crasher, go in & tell the boss he might as well shut up shop tomorrow. All hope is lost.

Crasherfromwayback

3rd February 2013, 19:24

Crasher, go in & tell the boss he might as well shut up shop tomorrow. All hope is lost.

Nah. He's like me. He doesn't mind getting out of bed every day to be surrounded by, and talk shit about nice motorcycles.:Punk:

boman

3rd February 2013, 19:42

I think the answer is simple in this case, everyman and his dog is making and selling pipes around the world. Its oversubscribed and always a dutch auction. Pipes are something that I would never entertain importing to resell, no margin worth getting out of bed for. There isnt really an Akrapovic distributor in NZ, just one that piggybacks onto the Aussie distributor, hence more cost. Look at Leo Vince, it came and went here, its a headache. Production schedules are decided months in advance and the more you buy the better the price. Relatively speaking there are no people in NZ! OH, AND YOU ALWAYS END UP WITH STOCK AND PARTS THAT YOU WILL DIE WITH, THAT DOESNT MAKE ECONOMIC SENSE

The point also, is that not many Bike shops, practice Customer services any more. Service almost seems to be a swear word. So why continue to support bad service? Would your business survive with bad service? if you ignored customers requests, no matter how ludicris, in your eyes they are?

At least a sod off, not interested, is communication. More than some businesses supply.

And where does that leave me? I have money to spend, but nothing to spend it on. Chances are that if I buy the System thats on Tard me, then I am supporting a foreign economy anyway?

I may as well buy it off TJ, and support a site sponsor, off another Forum...And another country

Robert Taylor

3rd February 2013, 19:45

The point also, is that not many Bike shops, practice Customer services any more. Service almost seems to be a swear word. So why continue to support bad service? Would your business survive with bad service? if you ignored customers requests, no matter how ludicris, in your eyes they are?

At least a sod off, not interested, is communication. More than some businesses supply.

And where does that leave me? I have money to spend, but nothing to spend it on. Chances are that if I buy the System thats on Tard me, then I am supporting a foreign economy anyway?

I may as well buy it off TJ, and support a site sponsor, off another Forum...And another country

Granted, in this case you have no option but to buy offshore

Madness

3rd February 2013, 19:48

And where does that leave me? I have money to spend, but nothing to spend it on. Chances are that if I buy the System thats on Tard me, then I am supporting a foreign economy anyway?

I may as well buy it off TJ, and support a site sponsor, off another Forum...And another country

Whilst the situation is obviously frustrating, your loyalty is to be applauded IMO.

BoristheBiter

3rd February 2013, 19:48

Have not most young kiwi's headed over sea's in the past.
We are too small of an economy to affect or influence global economic trends. But we can adapt and make some coin off it moving forward.
We have had the Stone Age, the ice age, medieval times.
The commonwealth, Soviet and US superpowers controlling the world in a major way. Now we move into a time of more change. One of those big shifts is the Technology age. The Internet is a massive part of that when it comes to communication and Retail.
Embrace it, or become extinct.

The thing most have missed is we have evolved as a country. we have stopped trying to be the cheapest and are trying to be the best. just take our wine and dairy products as an example. top prices are paid for our goods. this has been the downfall of our manufacturing market as imports are mass produced overseas so are made cheaper and to most cheaper is good, just look at the profit of the warehouse.

Another reason to shop for bike parts/accessories online is the convenience and the information you can get. I quite enjoy surfing for cool bits where I can look at pictures and read reviews etc. I very rarely compare prices.

Its a different shopping experience entirely than going into a bike shop taking up the salespersons time while they look through catalogues and there are other customers waiting to buy stuff when you are just browsing and maybe had no intention buying anything anyway.

Shame the shops are closing, but the market decides who stays and who goes in the long run.

And because of this shops don't carry stock so have to buy one off parts, at a higher price, so you go elsewhere and the shop closes down and when you come back for something else you wonder why they have gone bust.
Yes I love surfing the net to see what I can buy, yes I check the prices, but I always buy from a NZ retailer (except my helmet that they don't stock here).
Why? because I like to go in look around a shop find what I want with the knowlege that is something id wrong I can just take it back and get another one without having to send it back overseas.

not from all the people I hear from - mates, relatives, etc - and no, they aren't lazy whining cunts, either - most of them, like me, have a high work ethic - it's just the jobs /work are not there. - mainly construction/civil/engineering and assorted offshoots, related - tradesmen mainly

I would like to know what part of NZ you are talking about as I work/sell to the engineering/civil/construction areas and if those company's aren't doing well then we aren't and like I've said we are back to where we were. Yes we have changed our business model but not by a lot.

Crasherfromwayback

3rd February 2013, 19:49

Triumph Daytona 675 Slip-on Exhaust by Arrow (A9600199)
Trademe ---- $1189NZ

http://www.motovationusa.com/mvstore/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=1239
$749.99 USD ---> $845.25NZD

================================================== ===============
A saving of 1189 - 845.25 = 343.75NZD ....... or ............ a 40% increase off trademe

================================================== ================

That should give you an "eye deer" of how much it will cost if you use those percentages. It looks like an entrepreneur has gone into business for himself. I wonder why the shops are losing business. Even if that trademe guy was charged GST, with that kind of savings he can still undercut small business. Christ, he is buying at full retail price and can ship it and still make a profit.

.`

$845.00 + approx $100 worth of freight = $ 945.00. And 15% gst and pay for a customs broker and guess what? $1116.00 or there abouts.

Now add in the hassle if the system turns up damaged...congratulations!

Why don't you set yourself up in business importing motorcycle exhaust systems? You'd make a killing.

nzspokes

3rd February 2013, 19:53

Why don't you set yourself up in business importing motorcycle exhaust systems? You'd make a killing.

Be better with spark plugs, bigger market and less likely to be damaged. :laugh:

Madness

3rd February 2013, 19:54

$845.00 + approx $100 worth of freight = $ 945.00. And 15% gst and pay for a customs broker and guess what? $1116.00 or there abouts.

Now add in the hassle if the system turns up damaged...congratulations!

Why don't you set yourself up in business importing motorcycle exhaust systems? You'd make a killing.

I've found the opinions of immigrants from larger countries on this subject matter quite interesting. They seem to think we as a nation are all thick and it's such an easy task to cure all the disparities resulting from living in a remote, tiny country at the bottom of the planet. In my opinion they have the least clues of all on the subject and should be at the front of the queue when it comes to the "don't like it, fuck off" scenario.

Crasherfromwayback

3rd February 2013, 19:56

Be better with spark plugs, bigger market and less likely to be damaged. :laugh:

On the contrary. Porcelain is quite fragile.

nzspokes

3rd February 2013, 19:58

On the contrary. Porcelain is quite fragile.

Fair call, boat may hit a reef.

Madness

3rd February 2013, 19:59

Fair call, boat may hit a reef.

Stick to bicycles and nano-physics, much safer.

boman

3rd February 2013, 20:03

Whilst the situation is obviously frustrating, your loyalty is to be applauded IMO.

Thank you. I would rather keep my money in NZ. But it is proving harder and harder to do.

I actually nearly bought my Sv1000 off Haldanes. After twice, at two different times, having to approach the old guy who does the sales. And being treated like a leper both times,
I bought it off Scott at Mr Motorcycles. No hassle there. Couldnt be more helpful.

And again when my partner was looking for a new Ducati. Poor service. Same guy, same place. She ended up with a Suzuki, from Scott also.

And then when I was looking at upgrading my Sv. No customer service at all.

Whilst I feel bad for Chris Haldane. Bad staff I am sure, helped with its demise.

scracha

3rd February 2013, 20:04

I didn't deny the low wage bit. What I do deny...is that NZ feels like a third world shithole (I know he didn't use that term). NZ is an incredible place to live. You don't have to earn millions to have a nice lifestyle. You can snowboard one day, swim in the sea the next. We have uncrowded roads to enjoy, a climate that's pretty bloody good and food/wine/beer second to none. Most of the world has been doing it tough in case you haven't noticed, and we're no different.

Scenery, swimming, snow, beer and wine (if you're lucky enough to be able to afford them) ain't gonna pay your nor my pension when a huge chunk of NZ's best assets (it's young people) have fucked off.

I know the answer. If you find living here so bad...fuck off.

Record time for the typical redneck Kiwi response. Listen Crasher...I work like a bastard, I pay my taxes here and therefore I'm entitled to my opinion. I personally don't find living here so bad, I never said it was 3rd world (I say approaching 2nd world if it doesn't get its shit in order) and yes....many countries are worse off but to deny that NZ has problems and imply that it's some sort of utopia is disingenuous.

I'm lucky enough to have the option of fucking off. Most Kiwi's don't. However, I love NZ (warts and all) so I'd prefer folks discussed and hopefully found solutions to its problems as opposed to burying their head in the sand and denying them.

NZ should be making shit and investing in its own people instead of selling off its land and primary assets to pay for shit from Asia.

chur
Scracha

ps. I'm sorry but your beer is shite.

IM here for the money

But I go back to nz to ride and enjoy its beauty,catch up with friends and enjoy the lifestyle

So basically you're saying - "NZ is a beautiful place but I have to fuck off abroad to earn a shitload of money to actually enjoy the lifestye NZ offers"

NZ has actually bucked the global business confidence trend and is ahead of the UK, USA, China and Aussie. Not bad at all.

Money issues aside, we have a lower crime rate, better environment, better education etc. than a lot of so called developed countries.

You don't seriously believe that shit our state sponsored media spouts. Better environment and lower crime rate....don't make me laugh.

Tink

3rd February 2013, 20:10

Thank you. I would rather keep my money in NZ. But it is proving harder and harder to do.

I actually nearly bought my Sv1000 off Haldanes. After twice, at two different times, having to approach the old guy who does the sales. And being treated like a leper both times,
I bought it off Scott at Mr Motorcycles. No hassle there. Couldnt be more helpful.

And again when my partner was looking for a new Ducati. Poor service. Same guy, same place. She ended up with a Suzuki, from Scott also.

And then when I was looking at upgrading my Sv. No customer service at all.

Whilst I feel bad for Chris Haldane. Bad staff I am sure, helped with its demise.

OH FFS we went there twice, and never went back!:facepalm:

Madness

3rd February 2013, 20:11

Scenery, swimming, snow, beer and wine (if you're lucky enough to be able to afford them) ain't gonna pay your nor my pension when a huge chunk of NZ's best assets (it's young people) have fucked off.

No matter, for every bright young Kiwi that leaves we replace them with two Indians and a Yarpie.

I'm sorry but your beer is shite.

Who cares, our weed is world-class.

scracha

3rd February 2013, 20:13

Who cares, our weed is world-class.
My weed you mean :innocent:

Crasherfromwayback

3rd February 2013, 20:15

Scenery, swimming, snow, beer and wine (if you're lucky enough to be able to afford them) ain't gonna pay your nor my pension when a huge chunk of NZ's best assets (it's young people) have fucked off.

Record time for the typical redneck Kiwi response.

NZ should be making shit and investing in its own people instead of selling off its land and primary assets to pay for shit from Asia.

ps. I'm sorry but your beer is shite.

It's not at all difficult to afford such things. And I think you'll find a lot of the youngins that did fuck off...are coming home now. But young people doing OE's is hardly a new or NZ only thing. And pension? Fucking bludger. Safe for it yourself.

Why do you call me a redneck? Have you ever seen me make any sort of racist comment? If I have...I'll suck your cock. If not...you know the drill.

Now...we should be making shit? Oh we could...but seeing as you and other experts go on about our low wages...how could we 'make shit' paying what we do...and compete with 'shit' that's made in countries where they pay the workers a bowl of rice and $2.00 a week?

Beer? Hello...it's supposed to be cold. Also...a shitload of NZ beers have won awards in some of the worlds best comps.

Zedder

3rd February 2013, 20:22

You don't seriously believe that shit our state sponsored media spouts. Better environment and lower crime rate....don't make me laugh.

I certainly believe it as do many other people (interesting that Crasher said it also) but here's something else for you to trash. It's a bit old but you did ask and we are trying to explain things to you.

Crasherfromwayback

3rd February 2013, 20:29

Scenery, swimming, snow, beer and wine (if you're lucky enough to be able to afford them)

However, I love NZ (warts and all)

Better environment and lower crime rate....don't make me laugh.

So what the fuck is it you like about it here? Make up your mind please. And I say fuck of if you don't like it to anyone. I'm assuming you're an import? That's why you took my fuck off comment as me being a redneck yeah?

GrayWolf

3rd February 2013, 20:31

I didn't deny the low wage bit. What I do deny...is that NZ feels like a third world shithole (I know he didn't use that term). NZ is an incredible place to live. You don't have to earn millions to have a nice lifestyle. You can snowboard one day, swim in the sea the next. We have uncrowded roads to enjoy, a climate that's pretty bloody good and food/wine/beer second to none. Most of the world has been doing it tough in case you haven't noticed, and we're no different.

I know the answer. If you find living here so bad...fuck off.

I'd agree 110% with this,, I'm an 'import' of going on 22yrs... The UK which so many Kiwi's and Aussie's do the big OE to, is fucked.. it's become the 'resort' of the unemployed of Europe due to the agreements of the EEC and they can get the extremely good British Social services support (Dole etc). It's overpopulated, ruined industry (cars/b ikes heavy industry like ship building)... When I was a toolmaker, we were using still, equipment made in WW2 in the 1980's, good old British re-investment in the company. Massively high prices for housing compared to wages, yet in NZ house prices ARE bloody cheap, in fact the car prices compared against house prices are way higher as a percentage to the UK's. We as Crasher points out, can safely walk the streets at night, try being white and walk through Brixton at night in the 1980's. Mugging was so commonplace it didnt even make the 'front page section' of a newspaper, if reported was usually a small paragraph somewhere. Racism (Nat Front) skinheads. If you think that you are poor in NZ? Live in the UK and raise a family, buy a house (IF you can earn enough)......
You'll soon realise that in this case the grass in the other paddock (NZ) is bloody greener!!

scracha

3rd February 2013, 20:35

It's not at all difficult to afford such things.

If you have a JOB. Seen the unemployment stats for under 25's? Of course it's all their own fault and they're all lazy.

And I think you'll find a lot of the youngins that did fuck off...are coming home now. But young people doing OE's is hardly a new or NZ only thing.

I think you're talking shite about them coming home...the stats say otherwise. Young people not coming back from their OE is a new thing.

And pension? Fucking bludger. Safe for it yourself.

My point being who's gonna wipe you and the other pensioners arse? Seen the population demographics lately? Every pensioner could have a couple of mill in the pension fund but it ain't gonna do them much good if nobody else is left.

Now...we should be making shit? Oh we could...but seeing as you and other experts go on about our low wages...how could we 'make shit' paying what we do...and compete with 'shit' that's made in countries where they pay the workers a bowl of rice and $2.00 a week?

We shouldn't be aiming to compete by taking part in a race to the bottom. We should be upskilling our workers and giving them more knowledge. There's clever cunts in this country....we should be using them more.
Why when I phone up call centre do I often find their call-center in Australia? Are the wages cheaper there? Do they speak better English?
Why when I buy a motorcycle or car it is often made in Japan, Western Europe or the States? Are the wages cheaper there? Do they have more metal, oil and other raw materials to make them from than us?
Why is our state owned Telco infrastructure company not upskilling its own employees to lay fibre instead of importing workers from the Philippines & Malaysia?

Beer? Hello...it's supposed to be cold. Also...a shitload of NZ beers have won awards in some of the worlds best comps.
It's like Coca Cola.....you have it super cold to hide the shit taste

You can made stats and awards say anything. Did you know that a shitload of NZ beers have won fuck all

wasiler

3rd February 2013, 20:37

Be better with spark plugs, bigger market and less likely to be damaged. :laugh:

Good point, however, since I would be a local business, to hell with the double the price stuff. I am going to triple it so no one can buy the stuff and ask for people to support my biz

Robert Taylor

3rd February 2013, 20:46

I'd agree 110% with this,, I'm an 'import' of going on 22yrs... The UK which so many Kiwi's and Aussie's do the big OE to, is fucked.. it's become the 'resort' of the unemployed of Europe due to the agreements of the EEC and they can get the extremely good British Social services support (Dole etc). It's overpopulated, ruined industry (cars/b ikes heavy industry like ship building)... When I was a toolmaker, we were using still, equipment made in WW2 in the 1980's, good old British re-investment in the company. Massively high prices for housing compared to wages, yet in NZ house prices ARE bloody cheap, in fact the car prices compared against house prices are way higher as a percentage to the UK's. We as Crasher points out, can safely walk the streets at night, try being white and walk through Brixton at night in the 1980's. Mugging was so commonplace it didnt even make the 'front page section' of a newspaper, if reported was usually a small paragraph somewhere. Racism (Nat Front) skinheads. If you think that you are poor in NZ? Live in the UK and raise a family, buy a house (IF you can earn enough)......
You'll soon realise that in this case the grass in the other paddock (NZ) is bloody greener!!

Yes indeed the UK is knackered and probably now unfixable. The scary thing is it was on the right track until they elected Blair and that disaster of a chancellor of the exchequer. I saw Maggie on the Holmes eulogy on TV, bought a tear to my eye. I worked there in the early through mid 80s, got a job no problem because I was prepared to work. Loved the place.

Robert Taylor

3rd February 2013, 20:49

Good point, however, since I would be a local business, to hell with the double the price stuff. I am going to triple it so no one can buy the stuff and ask for people to support my biz

You are being ridiculous, if you think all retailers / distributors are tarred with the same brush you are very much mistaken. Thats what bugs me about the idiot element on this forum, its an ''us and them'' mentality. Many of us in the industry are meeting the new realities, if not on outright price but on added value and after sales service. Let me tell you that its no walk in the park.

scracha

3rd February 2013, 20:49

I certainly believe it as do many other people (interesting that Crasher said it also) but here's something else for you to trash. It's a bit old but you did ask and we are trying to explain things to you.
http://www.civitas.org.uk/crime/crime_stats_oecdjan2012.pdf
Swings, roundabouts and it is "recorded crime" so it might all be bollox.

Still wouldn't want to live in Mexico though.

I saw Maggie on the Holmes eulogy on TV, bought a tear to my eye. I worked there in the early through mid 80s, got a job no problem because I was prepared to work. Loved the place.
Now who's being ridiculous? Thatcher is the major reason the UK is fucked.

Many of us in the industry are meeting the new realities, if not on outright price but on added value and after sales service. Let me tell you that its no walk in the park.
That I would totally agree with

Ocean1

3rd February 2013, 20:56

Why is our state owned Telco infrastructure company not upskilling its own employees to lay fibre instead of importing workers from the Philippines & Malaysia?

Close to home, that one. The answer is they had a fairly good supply of Kiwi techs, they went out of their way to divide contracts geographically so that the Kiwis had to move to get work. At the same time they put undue pressure on wages and imported several hundred techs.

The details make for some sobering reading, but the upshot is you no longer have a good supply of Kiwi techs, they're all pumping gas, and most of the imports have gone back home.

Kiwi companies don't value their techies, they don't really know what they do.

BoristheBiter

3rd February 2013, 21:05

Now who's being ridiculous? Thatcher is the major reason the UK is fucked.

No Joining the EU is the reason.

AllanB

3rd February 2013, 21:17

Guess the Japanese need to start building interesting bikes again - too much ho-hum of the same thing for the past 4 -5 years. Build something exciting please.

sugilite

3rd February 2013, 21:20

Thank you. I would rather keep my money in NZ. But it is proving harder and harder to do.

I actually nearly bought my Sv1000 off Haldanes. After twice, at two different times, having to approach the old guy who does the sales. And being treated like a leper both times,
I bought it off Scott at Mr Motorcycles. No hassle there. Couldnt be more helpful.

And again when my partner was looking for a new Ducati. Poor service. Same guy, same place. She ended up with a Suzuki, from Scott also.

And then when I was looking at upgrading my Sv. No customer service at all.

Whilst I feel bad for Chris Haldane. Bad staff I am sure, helped with its demise.

NOOOOO, Haldanes closing down has nothing to do with their bad service to the point of losing out on up to 3 bike sales from you alone, or ignoring your request for a price on a pipe for your bike! No, it has everything to do with those dastardly accessory buying Neanderthals purchasing off the internet! <_<

BMWST?

3rd February 2013, 21:24

BMWST?

3rd February 2013, 21:27

Madness

3rd February 2013, 21:28

Coca Cola is cheaper than petrol, milk & bottled water.

wasiler

3rd February 2013, 21:31

You are being ridiculous, if you think all retailers / distributors are tarred with the same brush you are very much mistaken. Thats what bugs me about the idiot element on this forum, its an ''us and them'' mentality. Many of us in the industry are meeting the new realities, if not on outright price but on added value and after sales service. Let me tell you that its no walk in the park.

No, I am trying to make a point. Just some people are too thick to see it. The prices are too high. Do you think prices are going to go up because of the cheap labor in Asia? Because of the high prices, people are not buying local. This will not change as long as the same goods can be bought for less. Cash is going overseas and hurting the NZ economy. Even if the cash stayed inhouse at these higher prices, you would have a stagnant economy because less people would buy and little currency exchanged among kiwis. The sooner the prices drop, the sooner the currency will start to be exchanged and industry will start moving again. Now, you just can't drop prices because you have over head and costs to cover. That will come naturally and you will have little control over it. What gets me are those individuals that keep saying to buy local because they are helping the economy. You are not. You are trying to artificially inflate the price where the demand is not there...... Lassezi fare economics.... If you keep trying to delay the inevitable, you are just pissing in the wind and prolonging any type of recovery. The prices will drop no matter what you do. There are too many countries that are producing high tech stuff for peanuts. Look at any electronic device and see where it was made. As someone stated earlier, they probably were paid with a bowl of rice. I know you guys are trying to stay a float. If you sell a product that I consider is a reasonable price and good quality, I would purchase it. Otherwise, I have the option to take my business elsewhere. I would not want to be in your shoes because this is the contraction phase of the small shops and yes, some shops will close.

Madness

3rd February 2013, 21:37

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_0LsEtlzNZXY/SpDjSLWTRbI/AAAAAAAAA6o/bkO8wpdI9JM/s400/no+eye+deer.jpg

pete-blen

3rd February 2013, 21:38

sugilite

3rd February 2013, 21:42

On the contrary. Porcelain is quite fragile.
Yeah, Porcelain usually gets a shit of a time.:shifty:

Zedder

3rd February 2013, 21:42

[QUOTE=scracha;1130491991]http://www.civitas.org.uk/crime/crime_stats_oecdjan2012.pdf
Swings, roundabouts and it is "recorded crime" so it might all be bollox.

Still wouldn't want to live in Mexico though.

Interesting figures because NZ has been number 2 on the Global Peace Index for the last two years: http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/jun/12/global-peace-index-2012

There are 23 indicators ranging from safety and security in society to the extent of domestic and international conflict.

The guardian provided the most concise info by the way.

Crasherfromwayback

3rd February 2013, 21:47

bluebird

3rd February 2013, 22:17

one of the probs is young guys & good afordable cars....
When I started rideing in the mid 70s.. prob 50% of the young guys
bought motor bikes...as the cars were to exspensive and/or slow
unreliable crap.. but now for 5 grand they can pick up a good first car
& take there mates / GF around... I know heaps of under 25yo that have
never riden a motor bike & most lightly never will.. ( real motorbike..:scooter: don't count)
Those cheap Jap used import cars of the mid 80 is what started the demise
of the bike shops... later on the internet compounded it...

cure..get the young guys back onto bikes.... ain't that going to be easy?

PS..why would yer need a motorbike when yer can ride one on yer playstation or X box....:facepalm:

Scooter sales were up 30% last year, bike sales down 15%, all my sons 17-18 year old mates ride around on $1500 scooters, or in $3500 cars, for the price of a crappy bike you get a very tidy car. That is right about motorcycles now being a luxury sporting product, like jetskis. Sad that Haldanes has gone but my experience with them was not the best, like all extinction events, only the fittest survive. I do buy my extras and parts from my local dealer (Colmans) because I value having a local shop, but I like to service my own bike because I enjoy it.

Brian d marge

3rd February 2013, 23:57

Australians little rapers , followed closely by NZ ,,,,,,,Demark , closely followed by NZ for burglery ( tea leafs )

but if you come here to Japan , you will get a damn good thrashing eh wot!!!

Stephen

gammaguy

4th February 2013, 00:42

Clearly you're an arrogant arsehole with a crap approach to discussion and I hope you don't treat your customers like you appear as here.

I certainly wouldn't buy off you.

i will REALLY miss you,as you seem so nice

in my experience people start insulting others when they run out of anything intelligent to say,

some run out earlier than others

Gremlin

4th February 2013, 00:52

Keep the personal insults out of the thread, and try to keep it on some semblance of the topic.

Crasherfromwayback

4th February 2013, 06:04

Keep the personal insults out of the thread, .

Don't ruin it. Where's the fun in that!?

munster

4th February 2013, 06:14

and try to keep it on some semblance of the topic.

Is this still KiwiBiker? I can't recall many threads that have stayed on original topic for long.

Sorry to hear about Haldanes, I bought a bit of stuff off them when they were still a Suzuki dealer. Been in a few times to browse the Victory's.

When's the closing down sale?

pritch

4th February 2013, 06:32

We sure as hell do. And I work in the motorcycle industry to boot!

After reading all the comments on KB I was thinking you were some kind of barista.

SS90

4th February 2013, 06:47

That's bullshit. It is what you make it. NZ is a fucking awesome place to live.

True that.

I do cringe when I read people whinging about prices and industry in NZ, and I suspect most of then have never lived any reasonable tine anywhere else.

NZ is lucky to have (road) bike shops at all, it's less than 1% of the world market, and I assure you, Kiwis are more trouble than they are worth (financially speaking) when it comes to the world market.

That may sound harsh to some, but it is the reality.

More to come this year guys, you can quote me on that.

Crasherfromwayback

4th February 2013, 06:49

After reading all the comments on KB I was thinking you were some kind of barista.

That's my sideline business mate.

jellywrestler

4th February 2013, 06:50

Keep the personal insults out of the thread, and try to keep it on some semblance of the topic.

your mother swims out to troop ships

Crasherfromwayback

4th February 2013, 06:51

True that.

I do cringe when I read people whinging about prices and industry in NZ, and I suspect most of then have never lived any reasonable tine anywhere else.

More to come this year guys, you can quote me on that.

I worked in the industry in Brisbane for two years...and it's certainly no better over there. Just too fucking hot to ride mid summer. That's handy.

Yep I agree. Gonna be more shops go down yet.

BoristheBiter

4th February 2013, 07:36

seen the price of water lately?

It's free. it comes from the sky.
If you want to pay someone to put it in a nice plastic bottle then fine but the water is free.

Zedder

4th February 2013, 08:28

i will REALLY miss you,as you seem so nice

in my experience people start insulting others when they run out of anything intelligent to say,

some run out earlier than others

Judging by the comments I've received about you, I won't be the only one you miss.

Also, if you had anything intelligent to say you certainly didn't say it.

GrayWolf

4th February 2013, 08:28

Guess the Japanese need to start building interesting bikes again - too much ho-hum of the same thing for the past 4 -5 years. Build something exciting please.

They have/did....
Suzuki... The B King, Gladius,
Yamaha V max, MT-01

Four 'different' bikes both visually and performance wise..... none managed to capture large sales volumes, even the mighty V max only sells in small numbers each year.
Those of us who do subscribe to a slightly 'unusual' stlye of bike are always going to be 'oddities'... Classic example of this attitude to something 'different' has be perfectly displayed here in KB, whenever the Can Am is mentioned........
A product that immediately brings forth the 'open minded viewpoint' of the masses.

cooky1975

4th February 2013, 10:24

Hi Everyone Pass the word around Haldenes are closed. I had some parts coming for an iunsurance job - called my insurance guy he is going to order it through colemans. Went there this morning doors shuty. Another guy there he was miffed as he couldnt get at his bike. Pass the word around Haldenes in penrose is shut

Madness

4th February 2013, 10:54

Keep the personal insults out of the thread, and try to keep it on some semblance of the topic.

There has been some merging going on & the title of this thread has changed. It might be nice if Haldanes was spelled correctly.

Guess the Japanese need to start building interesting bikes again - too much ho-hum of the same thing for the past 4 -5 years. Build something exciting please.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/bikes/8245035/Honda-revives-the-monkey-bike

Headbanger

4th February 2013, 10:57

Keep the personal insults out of the thread, and try to keep it on some semblance of the topic.

You new around here?

Muhahahahahaha

In all seriousness, You tell them fuckers.

Zedder

4th February 2013, 11:10

There has been some merging going on & the title of this thread has changed. It might be nice if Haldanes was spelled correctly.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/bikes/8245035/Honda-revives-the-monkey-bike

Yes, it is rather disrespectful to the aforementioned (ex) establishment.

Also, thank you Mr Madness for the monkey bike article.

cooky1975

4th February 2013, 11:18

Yes, it is rather disrespectful to the aforementioned (ex) establishment.

Also, thank you Mr Madness for the monkey bike article.

Disrespectfull really - and those of us with property where is our respect ? Direspectfull really. I called the owner he asked me how i was i said yeah pretty F off to be fair . What they did how they did it - bloody terrible respect? respect what?

GrayWolf

4th February 2013, 11:31

After reading all the comments on KB I was thinking you were some kind of barista.

Yeh you're right, SOME KIND of Barista, just no one knows exactly WHAT kind of Barista.... :laugh::laugh:

Zedder

4th February 2013, 11:35

Disrespectfull really - and those of us with property where is our respect ? Direspectfull really. I called the owner he asked me how i was i said yeah pretty F off to be fair . What they did how they did it - bloody terrible respect? respect what?

Whoa there, I understand you're pissed off with the bike shop but there was no intention to get at you.

If you look at the previous threads about respect etc, it was about that and like others, who posted, a joke. I don't see you hassling Madness by the way.

Did you get your bike sorted?

cooky1975

4th February 2013, 11:47

Whoa there, I understand you're pissed off with the bike shop but there was no intention to get at you.

If you look at the previous threads about respect etc, it was about that and like others, who posted, a joke. I don't see you hassling Madness by the way.

Did you get your bike sorted?

yeah sorry there chief, bllody 5 days no smokes either lol. They going to send it to colemans

HenryDorsetCase

4th February 2013, 11:57

It's not going to get any better when twats keep buying stuff on the net from overseas for small personal financial gains.

a customer is never wrong to take a better deal. Its not our business to keep businesses afloat, it is the owners of said businesses whose job is to do that. Personally I am sick of whining, bitching and fucking negativity all the time.

While there are people riding motorbikes, there will be an industry there to sell and service them, and the bits that go with them.

My personal view is that the reason a ducati dealership fails (not sure if they had other brands) is because the products are way too common, and very expensive. The only people who can afford them are wealthy, and the wealthy want (for whatever reason) to buy Harleys. Thats a pretty broad brush, I'll acknowldege, but I am convinced of the principle.

HenryDorsetCase

4th February 2013, 12:05

It's not at all difficult to afford such things. And I think you'll find a lot of the youngins that did fuck off...are coming home now. But young people doing OE's is hardly a new or NZ only thing. And pension? Fucking bludger. Safe for it yourself.

Why do you call me a redneck? Have you ever seen me make any sort of racist comment? If I have...I'll suck your cock. If not...you know the drill.

Now...we should be making shit? Oh we could...but seeing as you and other experts go on about our low wages...how could we 'make shit' paying what we do...and compete with 'shit' that's made in countries where they pay the workers a bowl of rice and $2.00 a week?

Beer? Hello...it's supposed to be cold. Also...a shitload of NZ beers have won awards in some of the worlds best comps.

talking about manufacturing, I know someone who works in an engineering firm that you've never heard of: why? because they make things and export them into a very lucrative niche. Doing quite nicely thankyouverymuch.

a lot people (not you Pete) need to take a damn chill pill.

Zedder

4th February 2013, 12:12

yeah sorry there chief, bllody 5 days no smokes either lol. They going to send it to colemans

All good then.

cooky1975

4th February 2013, 12:24

All good then.

yep all good feel sorry for the other guys though with their bikes in there

Madness

4th February 2013, 12:29

Personally I am sick of whining, bitching and fucking negativity all the time.

Stay the fuck off KB then :facepalm:

While there are people riding motorbikes, there will be an industry there to sell and service them, and the bits that go with them.

Yes, probably a sum total of 1 or 2 bike shops in each main centre and maybe more in the provinces where quads & farm bikes will keep those smaller shops afloat. There will always be a plethora of options available on the internet which won't be much good for things like tyres. This spells out reduced choice, options & competition in the local market. Time to pull your head out of the sand perhaps?

boman

4th February 2013, 14:39

get cycle works to make you one..

Too late. Spent my $1295.00 off shore this morning.

Robert Taylor

4th February 2013, 16:54

a customer is never wrong to take a better deal. Its not our business to keep businesses afloat, it is the owners of said businesses whose job is to do that. Personally I am sick of whining, bitching and fucking negativity all the time.

While there are people riding motorbikes, there will be an industry there to sell and service them, and the bits that go with them.

My personal view is that the reason a ducati dealership fails (not sure if they had other brands) is because the products are way too common, and very expensive. The only people who can afford them are wealthy, and the wealthy want (for whatever reason) to buy Harleys. Thats a pretty broad brush, I'll acknowldege, but I am convinced of the principle.

Yes but its a legitimate complaint when clearly its a major inequity that so many imports are not accorded clearance charges and gst. And in part , local businesses are expected to compete when they pay all those charges, which have to be passed on.

BTW WE ARE DOING OKAY, BUT ITS THROUGH HARD WORK AND NOT EXPECTING THE WORLD TO OWE US A LIVING

scracha

4th February 2013, 17:21

There are 2 things that could make bikes come back big time. 1 is if petrol got dear enough

Many cars are far more fuel efficient than a lot of motorcycles. Factor in tyres too.

[QUOTE=scracha;1130491991]Interesting figures because NZ has been number 2 on the Global Peace Index for the last two years: http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/jun/12/global-peace-index-2012

There are 23 indicators ranging from safety and security in society to the extent of domestic and international conflict.

The guardian provided the most concise info by the way.
Global peace index isn't solely crime though. Factors like displaced people, military expenditure, military conflict etc are in there? I also see clear errors....there's no way the UK has twice the access to weapons that NZ has. Hell...outside of a clay pigeon range and the airports, I'd never seen a firearm in the UK.

Keep the personal insults out of the thread, and try to keep it on some semblance of the topic.
Ja Vol Mein Herr.

I do cringe when I read people whinging about prices and industry in NZ, and I suspect most of then have never lived any reasonable tine anywhere else.

I cringe when I hear people whinging about how wonderful NZ is, and I suspect most of them have never lived any reasonable time anywhere else.

Yes but its a legitimate complaint when clearly its a major inequity that so many imports are not accorded clearance charges and gst. And in part , local businesses are expected to compete when they pay all those charges, which have to be passed on.

Yeah it's totally stupid and unfair. It's like the government are inviting people to spend their money abroad. Bonkers.

Robert Taylor

4th February 2013, 17:42

No, I am trying to make a point. Just some people are too thick to see it. The prices are too high. Do you think prices are going to go up because of the cheap labor in Asia? Because of the high prices, people are not buying local. This will not change as long as the same goods can be bought for less. Cash is going overseas and hurting the NZ economy. Even if the cash stayed inhouse at these higher prices, you would have a stagnant economy because less people would buy and little currency exchanged among kiwis. The sooner the prices drop, the sooner the currency will start to be exchanged and industry will start moving again. Now, you just can't drop prices because you have over head and costs to cover. That will come naturally and you will have little control over it. What gets me are those individuals that keep saying to buy local because they are helping the economy. You are not. You are trying to artificially inflate the price where the demand is not there...... Lassezi fare economics.... If you keep trying to delay the inevitable, you are just pissing in the wind and prolonging any type of recovery. The prices will drop no matter what you do. There are too many countries that are producing high tech stuff for peanuts. Look at any electronic device and see where it was made. As someone stated earlier, they probably were paid with a bowl of rice. I know you guys are trying to stay a float. If you sell a product that I consider is a reasonable price and good quality, I would purchase it. Otherwise, I have the option to take my business elsewhere. I would not want to be in your shoes because this is the contraction phase of the small shops and yes, some shops will close.

Many fair points no argument. Much we havent got control of but the Government if it had any balls would tax business imports and private imports EQUALLY.
In actual fact we ( KSS ) are doing ok. To a large degree we are insulated because of the nature of our business, modifying suspension from revalves to rekitting to complete replacement. That requires and /or is in no small part assisted by a lot of experience, but also training. In our case much of it onsite at the Ohlins factory near Stockholm. It also requires a sizable investment in equipment and for our part we have invested heavily in suspension diagnostic equipment, where our competitors havent. But this is only indefinitely sustainable not only from what we charge out in parts and services but also healthy and ongoing sales of built up units.
I guess what I am trying to say is that a further long term ( or even short term ) roll on affect of current trading conditions is it can and will negatively impact on the ability and willingness of service providers to invest and keep reinvesting in the technology to perform those services to the best possible level. Theres always a lot of bemoaning on this forum about how far you have to travel to get good service, that situation is not going to get better, it will get worse. It all self perpetuates.

Zedder

4th February 2013, 17:56

[QUOTE=scracha;1130492602][QUOTE=Zedder;1130492035]

Global peace index isn't solely crime though. Factors like displaced people, military expenditure, military conflict etc are in there? I also see clear errors....there's no way the UK has twice the access to weapons that NZ has. Hell...outside of a clay pigeon range and the airports, I'd never seen a firearm in the UK.

Lol, just 'cos you've never seen a firearm in the UK apart from the clay pigeon range and the airport doesn't mean they don't exist.

Here's some civilian gun figures but feel free to click on the other headings: http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/united-kingdom

BoristheBiter

4th February 2013, 18:00

I cringe when I hear people whinging about how wonderful NZ is, and I suspect most of them have never lived any reasonable time anywhere else.

I think you will find that they are not whinging about how good NZ is just stating what they see as a fact.

I cringe when I here people that have lived overseas think they know what makes a country great. yes I have lived abroad for a few years, in different country's and even though there are some amazing places I wouldn't live anywhere else (at this point in time).

I don't know if you are an import (you sound like one) or not so i will phrase this question as this.

Why are you here in nz and what stops you from living somewhere else?

Indiana_Jones

4th February 2013, 18:15

It's not going to get any better when twats keep buying stuff on the net from overseas for small personal financial gains.

I needed new CV joints for my 'crab, $330 to get them rebuilt....each, $165 each (if I recall correctly) from the local NZ club.........or £25 each from the landcrab club. that wasn't a small personal financial gain.

If something is up to around $50 more locally, I'll go local, if not, I'll look elsewhere. Also depends how quickly I need it.

-Indy

Zedder

4th February 2013, 18:22

I think you will find that they are not whinging about how good NZ is just stating what they see as a fact.

I cringe when I here people that have lived overseas think they know what makes a country great. yes I have lived abroad for a few years, in different country's and even though there are some amazing places I wouldn't live anywhere else (at this point in time).

I don't know if you are an import (you sound like one) or not so i will phrase this question as this.

Why are you here in nz and what stops you from living somewhere else?

Hoi BTB, I didn't even post that comment, it was the other guy.

BoristheBiter

4th February 2013, 18:37

Hoi BTB, I didn't even post that comment, it was the other guy.

Sorry bout that, erased the wrong quote line. now it is correct.

Madness

4th February 2013, 18:38

I needed new CV joints for my 'crab, $330 to get them rebuilt....each, $165 each (if I recall correctly) from the local NZ club.........or £25 each from the landcrab club. that wasn't a small personal financial gain.

If something is up to around $50 more locally, I'll go local, if not, I'll look elsewhere. Also depends how quickly I need it.

-Indy

Two things come to mind from your post;

- A small personal financial gain is going to be determined by the person, innit. As I've posted before, I've read posts on here of Twats privately importing stuff only to later find that they could have bought it locally for either the same price or cheaper.

- You're a sick bastard for spending anything on a land crab except maybe a tip fee.

TheDoctor

4th February 2013, 18:40

Some more info for you...

My Friend spoke to the building manager - the store is all locked up (haldanes have been locked out due to non-payment of rent) - on friday Haldanes companys solicitor told all the staff there was no more money and there jobs were terminated (with no pay or back pay) GE finance has repossessed all it's stock (the under finance floor stock) and the Victories etc are gone. That's when the building managers got wind of it and changed the locks. Now Ian Beckhaus from Triumph NZ is in discussions with the solicitor to get back all the Ducatis and SYM's and Vespas or put in a manager to take over operations under another name. He said there was a "couple" of customers bikes in the workshop - so you should notify (via Ducati club etc) anyone who's left bike's there to get onto the haldanes company solicitor to regain possession of their bikes - Chris Haldane is not answering his mobile and had disconnected voice mail - so via the solicitor is the only path (i'll get you their number when I get it?)

avgas

4th February 2013, 19:34

Suzuki... The B King, Gladius,
Yamaha V max, MT-01
I'll bite...
B-King : Took 6 years, was first put into production by Lazareth by blatantly stealing Suzuki's concept then copying it with what he had (Busa's and know how). By the time Lazareth had enough back-orders for the next 10 years Suzuki noticed and (finally) went to production :facepalm:. When they did they took all the toys out of it (head-up display, supercharged motor) and even underpowered it in comparison to what the donor motor (busa) could do. Still a good bike - but one with clipped wings.

Gladius : They must have mis-interpreted the request for a "drag" bike. Also if the Gladius was an SV650 tailored for the masses.....what the hell was the SV650???

V-Max : Way back in the 1980's yamaha thought it would be a cool idea to make a super-fast cruiser bike. They tried it, it worked, became cult icon, then they stopped making it. Late 2000's they rekindle it, add a small amount of spice then say "done". Once again - Lazareth and many others have been reinventing VMAX's for years where Yamaha was asleep. So you would have thought that they would put more effort into the remake. I don't see them re-releasing XS1100's or TZ500's..........yet if they got the old bike and farted their creative talent on it again it would sell like hotcakes.

MT-01 : Great bike and concept. But what they don't tell you was they had a whole range. Look up MT-OS or MT-06 and drool. But turns out people didn't want a big cruiser. On the upside looking at their track-record, you will be able to buy a brand new one in 20 years, which will look just like it does now, when it becomes cool again.

Any other great designs you would like me to prod?

While I am at it here are some of the fallen japanese designs that were original and should have got pushed to production:
Yamaha MT-OS
Suzuki Stratosphere
Yamaha VMN1400r
Yamaha Tessaract

Probably 100's of others I have missed

Woodman

4th February 2013, 19:55

Many fair points no argument. Much we havent got control of but the Government if it had any balls would tax business imports and private imports EQUALLY.

They obviously have the means and knowhow because my last order (you don't wanna know what it was:facepalm:) I got deliverd to my work address, but before it got to me a letter came stating that I had to declare that it was for me personally and not a commercial resellable item. I had to write a wee paragraph saying what it was for and why I got it delivered to commercial premises etc before they released it and charged me GST etc. Presumably otherwise there would have been some commercial tax involved.

BTW I agree that private imported goods should be charged the same taxes etc as commercial goods. Its just fairer.

Indiana_Jones

4th February 2013, 20:08

Two things come to mind from your post;

- A small personal financial gain is going to be determined by the person, innit. As I've posted before, I've read posts on here of Twats privately importing stuff only to later find that they could have bought it locally for either the same price or cheaper.

- You're a sick bastard for spending anything on a land crab except maybe a tip fee.

-Exactly, someone would go through the hassle of ordering from overseas etc for the sake of $5, others would not.

-Nothing wrong with the mighty Landcrab lol, you're talking to a man who would do a full resto on a Princess if I had the space :p.

-Indy

GrayWolf

4th February 2013, 21:13

I'll bite...
B-King : Took 6 years, was first put into production by Lazareth by blatantly stealing Suzuki's concept then copying it with what he had (Busa's and know how). By the time Lazareth had enough back-orders for the next 10 years Suzuki noticed and (finally) went to production :facepalm:. When they did they took all the toys out of it (head-up display, supercharged motor) and even underpowered it in comparison to what the donor motor (busa) could do. Still a good bike - but one with clipped wings.

Gladius : They must have mis-interpreted the request for a "drag" bike. Also if the Gladius was an SV650 tailored for the masses.....what the hell was the SV650???

V-Max : Way back in the 1980's yamaha thought it would be a cool idea to make a super-fast cruiser bike. They tried it, it worked, became cult icon, then they stopped making it. Late 2000's they rekindle it, add a small amount of spice then say "done". Once again - Lazareth and many others have been reinventing VMAX's for years where Yamaha was asleep. So you would have thought that they would put more effort into the remake. I don't see them re-releasing XS1100's or TZ500's..........yet if they got the old bike and farted their creative talent on it again it would sell like hotcakes.

MT-01 : Great bike and concept. But what they don't tell you was they had a whole range. Look up MT-OS or MT-06 and drool. But turns out people didn't want a big cruiser. On the upside looking at their track-record, you will be able to buy a brand new one in 20 years, which will look just like it does now, when it becomes cool again.

Any other great designs you would like me to prod?

While I am at it here are some of the fallen japanese designs that were original and should have got pushed to production:
Yamaha MT-OS
Suzuki Stratosphere
Yamaha VMN1400r
Yamaha Tessaract

Probably 100's of others I have missed

Yup you're probably q110% correct,,, Suziki may have 'watered down' the B king concept from its origin, just like the 'concept MT-01' had LED lights, a 'side mounted shock' that finally found it's way into the MT-03 and an even more funky difital speedo/tacho unit. Yamaha had 3 stages of tuning available at a bloody ridiculous cost. The OS was not a yamaha original concept, it was a development from the MT.
For a manufacturer to make a bike they need to make it reliable, usable and serviceable AND affordable... the 'watered down' bike as you call it would have been in the hands of many who would not have the money to buy a production bike in the original form, so yup it was 'watered down'. And it would have to survive the 'plebeian' abuse most bikes are dished out, specials DO tend to be a little more looked after (Ferrari owner Vs Skyline GTS ownership).
Yamaha tried the Bulldog 1100 from the MT concept and it failed miserably, so in 2005 (6 yrs AFTER it's unveiling) we got the original bike, by then Buell etc had taken the market share. Had the MT been sold from 1999 when it was unveiled? and at a more 'reasonable' price, it's story may have been different, BTW the MT is NOT a cruiser, it may use a cruiser engine but is highly 'tweaked' from the donor bike's motor. it out torqued ANY of the 1000cc bracket sprot bikes when released, including the original 'busa, ZX-10, ZZR1200, B/bird, CBR's GSX's etc. nearest bike for performance comparison, is the XR1200 HD sporty... it was a flagship bike and build quality is extremely good... just never marketed into the USA for some strange reason, and as mentioned 'overpriced' by the time it was finally in production.
Honda produced the X-13 in the 90's... not a bad bike, but another 'risk design' that didnt really take off.
You can prod as many as you like, but the simple 'equation' is, the buying public in the main want 'rossirepwannabe' GSXCBRRRRRRR 1100 GGRT's Look at how quickly the 'speed hump' on one piece leathers took off.... concept bikes such as those we both mentioned just are not going to go 'mainstream'... hell we are only 'JUST' seeing a resurgence of the 'naked/UJM' style of bikes again.... just after bikes like the GS1400 went out of production.... but even these are being done with an 'aggressive' styling concept....

Brian d marge

4th February 2013, 21:49

-Exactly, someone would go through the hassle of ordering from overseas etc for the sake of $5, others would not.

-Nothing wrong with the mighty Landcrab lol, you're talking to a man who would do a full resto on a Princess if I had the space :p.

-Indy
Sickko

Stephen

avgas

5th February 2013, 06:10

In other news looks like US is finally getting SR400's after so many custom bike builders have been using 20 year old SR500's and making fortunes.
I wonder if that means that we will get new SR400's?

scracha

5th February 2013, 20:31

[QUOTE=scracha;1130492602][QUOTE=Zedder;1130492035]

Lol, just 'cos you've never seen a firearm in the UK apart from the clay pigeon range and the airport doesn't mean they don't exist.

Here's some civilian gun figures but feel free to click on the other headings: http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/united-kingdom

True....but the odd farmer or enthusiast aside, they're just a non entity in the UK. Since the Thomas Hamilton thing they're considered almost socially unacceptable. Lastly, unlike around here you don't find unlicensed gun owners as it's a mandatory 5 year prison sentence for owning an unlicensed gun. Also there's no such thing as private handgun ownership in the UK.

Seems a bit crazy sometimes....but there you go.
http://www.businessinsider.com/british-special-forces-soldier-jailed-over-possession-of-gifted-iraqi-firearm-2012-11

Anyways...Looking at the site you gave.

NZ - 5.25 Licensed firearm owners per 100 population
UK - 1.46 Licensed firearm owners per 100 population

NZ - 22.6 firearms per 100 people
UK - 6.7 firearms per 100 people

Can I just state for the record, that I'm not actually against gun ownership.

I cringe when I here people that have lived overseas think they know what makes a country great

That's a bit unfair. I merely stated that NZ has problems (as have other countries...many worse) as some people seem to bury their heads in some sort of ritualistic sand chanting "best country in the world" and telling people to "fuck off overseas" if they dare point out some problem areas that clearly need addressed. Be it myself, my bike, my house or my country; to not recognise I/they have problems and not try and fix me/them means that I don't care about myself/them. To not discuss improvements is just stupid.

My original post did say "I wish I knew the answers."

I don't know if you are an import (you sound like one) or not so i will phrase this question as this.
Why are you here in nz and what stops you from living somewhere else?
I am in NZ because I personally have a good lifestyle here and on balance, it's far better than anywhere else I've lived. I feel genuinely sympathtic to tho's who aren't as fortunate as me and clearly aren't getting their fair share of the kiwi pie. I worry about my economic future in this country. I worry about the direction this country is headed. I don't agree that things are improving. In short, I give a fuck. If I didn't give up a fuck I'd upsticks and head overseas again.

Brian d marge

5th February 2013, 21:41

I can certainly wade in on the godzone debate ,

ALL Countries say their own is the best , the Japanese for example ( on the quiet ) are a racist bunch Yellow? supremists ( nice though ) . Try critisizing japan and see how far you get ! ( esp when the word china is used in the sentence )

New Zealand though , IF YOU HAVE MONEY ( ie a steady income ) is a nice place to live , The restaurants are expensive , the beer is crap ( getting better with the advent of micro breweries ) , no people and the people are there are impolite and fat. ( sorry but true at least in churchur)

The driving is too fast and inconsiderate. The health service is actually ok, if you dont mind the wait. ( here in Japan its fast and kinda ok , Im not sure they could cure the simple cold though, but its cheap , oh so cheap)

Tax , OMG HOW MUCH !! DAMN , here I pay a flat tax of 5 % and a citizens tax of up to 20 , depending on earnings ( yes companies pay a lot )

Education , better here up to the age of 11 then it starts to go down hill , while NZ improves ( Uni in NZ is FAR better though TOO expensive)

So why would you live in NZ

Well you wouldnt if you want to get ahead, ( strangely ) I feel there is a cant do attitude I feel , but when I leave its a can do ? dont know why ,

BUT , now here the point , IF you wanted a good quality of life ( ie not worried about making money and just a small square of land and the kids to a local school , home by 4.30 dinner by 6 then shortland street, sat and sunday off with saturday at the footie or beach ......etc

New Zealand IS THE PLACE ( so is greece but there is a language barrier )

I have lived in ( for more than a year )

England , France , greece , and Japan ( 13 years and counting ) and of couse NZ ( 12 years both pre and post Rogernomics)

The grass IS greener tuther side of fence , Just depends on what you call green

Stephen

Oh ps, your internet is big suxy goat balls

Zedder

5th February 2013, 21:42

[QUOTE=scracha;1130493626][QUOTE=Zedder;1130492656][QUOTE=scracha;1130492602]

True....but the odd farmer or enthusiast aside, they're just a non entity in the UK. Since the Thomas Hamilton thing they're considered almost socially unacceptable. Lastly, unlike around here you don't find unlicensed gun owners as it's a mandatory 5 year prison sentence for owning an unlicensed gun. Also there's no such thing as private handgun ownership in the UK.

Seems a bit crazy sometimes....but there you go.
http://www.businessinsider.com/british-special-forces-soldier-jailed-over-possession-of-gifted-iraqi-firearm-2012-11

Anyways...Looking at the site you gave.

NZ - 5.25 Licensed firearm owners per 100 population
UK - 1.46 Licensed firearm owners per 100 population

NZ - 22.6 firearms per 100 people
UK - 6.7 firearms per 100 people

Can I just state for the record, that I'm not actually against gun ownership.

You didn't even read the info properly, the number of registered guns was 2,158,572 while the licensed owners were 861,958 and the estimated total number of guns was 4,060,000. That's hardly the "odd farmer and enthusiast aside". But hey, just keep getting off the subject.

scracha

5th February 2013, 22:03

You didn't even read the info properly, the number of registered guns was 2,158,572 while the licensed owners were 861,958 and the estimated total number of guns was 4,060,000. That's hardly the "odd farmer and enthusiast aside". But hey, just keep getting off the subject.

Yes, I did read the info..

In a country of 65 Million, 0.8 million licensed owners owning an estimated 4 million guns is indeed, the odd farmer and enthusiast. There's approx 0.6 million folk in the uk directly working on farms.

In a country of 4.4 Million, 0.23 million licensed (not to mention unlicensed) owners owning an estimated 1 million guns (no registration necessary so who actually knows) how many there are) is far more than the odd farmer and enthusiast. I have no idea how many people in NZ directly work on farms.

There are no off subject on Kiwibiker :yes:

mouldy

5th February 2013, 22:21

Not even overseas.

I needed a new chain and sprocket fitted. Called several bike shops around town got quoted at 250-350$

George at Motorcycle doctors said he'd do it for 90$. And he comes to you.

I've never had any dealings with Haldanes, and I hate to see people lose their jobs. But with price differences like that in servicing from a top chap like George, coupled with parts n bits being much cheaper from overseas, it's small wonder shops are starting to go under.

New bike prices here are also outrageous from my non native new zealander point of view :sweatdrop I wonder how many people are buying new vs used from trade me.

$90 for chain and sprockets is very suspicious , what brand are they ?

Zedder

6th February 2013, 15:21

Yes, I did read the info..

In a country of 65 Million, 0.8 million licensed owners owning an estimated 4 million guns is indeed, the odd farmer and enthusiast. There's approx 0.6 million folk in the uk directly working on farms.

In a country of 4.4 Million, 0.23 million licensed (not to mention unlicensed) owners owning an estimated 1 million guns (no registration necessary so who actually knows) how many there are) is far more than the odd farmer and enthusiast. I have no idea how many people in NZ directly work on farms.

There are no off subject on Kiwibiker :yes:

Got any data to support that? Hehe.

Maha

6th February 2013, 15:59

How did a thread about a bike shop closing get onto the subject of guns?

Madness

6th February 2013, 16:13

$90 for chain and sprockets is very suspicious , what brand are they ?

I got the impression that the $90 was to fit a supplied chain & sprockets bought from Ebay & imported without paying GST & Duties.

:innocent:

Indiana_Jones

6th February 2013, 16:15

How did a thread about a bike shop closing get onto the subject of guns?

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6f8pnFXq91rwb52ho1_1280.jpg

-Indy

Glowerss

6th February 2013, 16:37

I got the impression that the $90 was to fit a supplied chain & sprockets bought from Ebay & imported without paying GST & Duties.

:innocent:

The 90$ was to fit the chain and sprockets. The sprockets came from the last owner, no idea where he bought them, and the chain I bought from the chap who fitted them as he gave me a fairly reasonable price on an X ring chain.

Was going to buy the chain from whomever went to fit it, as 100$ isn't really enough to warrant worrying about.

But hey, don't let facts get in the way of you being a pretentious dick :bash: .

I can agree with personal items being charged duties and GST or whatever to keep things equal. Fully behind that. What I won't do is spend 2-3x the price on something simply because it's local.

Madness

6th February 2013, 19:24

But hey, don't let facts get in the way of you being a pretentious dick :bash:

And don't let being an overly serious gimp get in they way of having a laugh occasionally.

cc rider

7th February 2013, 15:57

Sorry to hear of closure. Was going to head down that way today when weta told me :(

We're (company) closing 1 of the stores. But are expanding the 2 closest stores. Go figure. And owners have axed management & IT positions & streamlined staff hours. There's an approx 30% drop in sales across the board over here. Am thankful that I don't now work for one of the smaller dealers. 5 shops closed last year that I know of around Melbourne.

We have a web store that sells from shop stock which is fine, but get dweebs in all the time trying to get fitted for gear then buy on internet. :bash:
Or buy from random internet sellers & want to return parts to our store... I don't think so... dicks

FROSTY

12th February 2013, 20:21

The 90$ was to fit the chain and sprockets. The sprockets came from the last owner, no idea where he bought them, and the chain I bought from the chap who fitted them as he gave me a fairly reasonable price on an X ring chain.
Was going to buy the chain from whomever went to fit it, as 100$ isn't really enough to warrant worrying about.
ut hey, don't let facts get in the way of you being a pretentious dick :bash: .

I can agree with personal items being charged duties and GST or whatever to keep things equal. Fully behind that. What I won't do is spend 2-3x the price on something simply because it's local.
hang on a mo dude -first you say $90 VS $350 now its $90 to FIT chain/sprockets with the price of the chain on top
At a guess the job cost you $190-$220 all up.
So yep you saved money but not as much as your OP suggested.

307a

12th February 2013, 21:56

They died when they left Mt Eden.

Moving to Penrose was suiside.

Glowerss

12th February 2013, 22:15

hang on a mo dude -first you say $90 VS $350 now its $90 to FIT chain/sprockets with the price of the chain on top
At a guess the job cost you $190-$220 all up.
So yep you saved money but not as much as your OP suggested.

The original quote from several shops was 300-350 just to FIT the chain/sprocket. That didn't include the chain. Several of them tried giving me some bullshit story of it's a "long and difficult job"

Moto doctors sold me a chain and fit it for 190$ all up. Took them 30 minutes from showing up at me house to leaving again.

It's a colossal difference.

Paul in NZ

13th February 2013, 06:55

Katman

13th February 2013, 07:30

The original quote from several shops was 300-350 just to FIT the chain/sprocket.

Bullshit..

PeeJay

13th February 2013, 08:32

The only truth is that nothing remains the same for ever. Shops have always come and gone.

When the once world dominating British Motorcycle industry shriveled and died a lot of old fashioned shops hung on and eventually closed. Some took on Japanese or European brands and trickled on while some became the big bright modern franchises and thrived. Even in the late 50's and early 60's the arrival of the cheap and reliable (relatively) car's like the Mini changed the industry for ever.

IMHO we are seeing another major sea change in the industry. Less people are buying large bikes and more people are buying scooters etc. Makers from China are gaining ground and nothing commercially exciting is coming from Japan. Shops cannot stop people comparing prices or shopping on the internet and neither can the manufacturers. Maybe its time for a new business model.

No matter what - life goes on...

Exactly, life goes on.
but some people have trouble dealing with change.
When I first started working as a bike mechanic in the 70's workshop work was dominated by British bikes, in as much as we were always rebuilding engines gearboxes etc.
The workshops I worked in always had 5-6 mechanics and we were flat out most of the time.
There were also a swag of indie workshops around 2,3,4 people servicing the industry.
90's onwards everything is so reliable that mechanics, sorry technicians, are mostly changing oils and fitting parts.
Look in any large dealership now and how many mechanics do they have . 2 ?
No one would be suggesting that bikes and cars should be made unreliable to keep kiwis in jobs fixing them. Or are they?

All the whinging and moaning from people about buying from the internet, they forget that the parts are imported whether you buy local or import yourself.
By buying local you are paying someone to import for you. If you are willing to pay someone to do it for you, great.
If you are happy doing it yourself thats great also.

I would have some sympathy for their position if the bits you (or an importer) were importing were being manufactured here and cheap imports bought about the demise of manufacturing in NZ.
Oh right, it already has, cars, clothing, whiteware, TV, radio, etc

FROSTY

13th February 2013, 08:43

The original quote from several shops was 300-350 just to FIT the chain/sprocket. That didn't include the chain. Several of them tried giving me some bullshit story of it's a "long and difficult job"

Moto doctors sold me a chain and fit it for 190$ all up. Took them 30 minutes from showing up at me house to leaving again.

It's a colossal difference.
Sorry mon I do not believe you. Which dealerships did you contact that said $350 to fit a chain and sprockets to a hornet 250?
ctreads quoted UNDER $300 .Botany Honda $350 Cyclespot Honda $340 That is for THEM to supply 2 sprockets and chain and fit it.
So when you add $80-$100 for 2 sprockets the the now $190 you have $290 The difference from treads price is now $10 and $50 at honda
Before comeing back with a kneejerk reaction please realise that some of us here actually work in the industry and know charge out rates for products and services.