Trials bike noob needs help

[Night Falcon]

I have been looking at getting into a bit of casual trials riding. I don't know much about trials bikes- in fact I've never even riden one - so don't really know where to start interms of what would suit me.

I'm currently keeping a close eye on TM looking at whats available and at what price. One brand that keeps popping up is "Other" Beta which when I google only comes up with Beta. I assume this is because the Other Beta is a chinesse knock off of the Beta trials bike? Any who....are there some experts out there that can help a noob out by pointing him in the right direction for a reliable bike with enough power to haul my 92kg, 184cm frame over the odd log and up some Hawke's Bay river banks?

[FJRider]

On Trademe .. a few other than Trials bikes came up too.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/CategoryAttributeSearchResults.aspx?search=1&cid=1255&sidebar=1&rptpath=0001-0026-&39=Dirt+bikes&40=&153=Trials&9=0&9=0&24=0&24=0&51=0&51=0&sidebarSearch_keypresses=12&sidebarSearch_suggested=0

[glukasil]

hi mate. if you dont want to spend much for your first bike , kawasaki 200/220 is your choice....
get 1992+ model for 1200+ . dont go for chinese bikes. :)

[ktm84mxc]

The reason Beta pops up in other is because it's not a well known brand in the US, the same would apply to Sherco, Fantic, Montessa etc .
A trials bike from the early 2000's will be 2.5-3.5g in good working order, stick to the known brands as above a 250-320cc is what you're after, for info ring the guys at Blenheim Trails center .
You could get an older twin shock model eg TY250, TLR200/250 as there is a club series just for these with the older Euro brands.

[Shorty_925]

I have been looking at getting into a bit of casual trials riding. I don't know much about trials bikes- in fact I've never even riden one - so don't really know where to start interms of what would suit me.

I'm currently keeping a close eye on TM looking at whats available and at what price. One brand that keeps popping up is "Other" Beta which when I google only comes up with Beta. I assume this is because the Other Beta is a chinesse knock off of the Beta trials bike? Any who....are there some experts out there that can help a noob out by pointing him in the right direction for a reliable bike with enough power to haul my 92kg, 184cm frame over the odd log and up some Hawke's Bay river banks?

Get in touch with someone at the HB club, they have trials meetings on once a month, last year Im pretty sure they had 'have a go day'.

The Beta importer is down in Kapiti : http://www.nztrials.co.nz/ John usually knows who selling which bike and how much etc.

Trials Centre in Blenhiem is good as well : http://www.trialsnz.com/

[Night Falcon]

Thanks for the info, it is very much appriciated. I didn't know there was an HB trials club but am keen to hook up with them even its just for some advice. Does anyone have a contact for them?

I think I know the guy from Blenhiem as I grew up there....as I recall he was an apprentice at Marlb Honda back in the day.

The 2-3K price range is about my budget but would spend more for the right bike. I'd like something post 2000 and preferably 4 stroke. I've looked at 250 trail bike but I imagine the gearing will be too high for the real slow speed work I'm looking to do. Have even considered a KTM SX125 which is light weight but might be a bit too tall in the gears and the power spread would be all wrong?

[Shorty_925]

Thanks for the info, it is very much appriciated. I didn't know there was an HB trials club but am keen to hook up with them even its just for some advice. Does anyone have a contact for them?

I think I know the guy from Blenhiem as I grew up there....as I recall he was an apprentice at Marlb Honda back in the day.

The 2-3K price range is about my budget but would spend more for the right bike. I'd like something post 2000 and preferably 4 stroke. I've looked at 250 trail bike but I imagine the gearing will be too high for the real slow speed work I'm looking to do. Have even considered a KTM SX125 which is light weight but might be a bit too tall in the gears and the power spread would be all wrong?

Here's the contact list for the Hawkes Bay motorcycle Club, they run Trials, Cross Country & MX events : http://hbmc.org.nz/?page_id=2

There's not too many 4 strokes in Trials, and the ones that are, are usually the newer bikes. The wheel base of the a MX or Enduro bike wouldnt help either. Only person Ive seen do a Trial on a non-Trials bike was Chris Birch a few years ago.

[pete-blen]

I think I know the guy from Blenhiem as I grew up there....as I recall he was an apprentice at Marlb Honda back in the day.


Brendon Wadsworth....

[Night Falcon]

Brendon Wadsworth....

I was thinking of Peter Grinter

[Crisis management]

The 2-3K price range is about my budget but would spend more for the right bike. I'd like something post 2000 and preferably 4 stroke. I've looked at 250 trail bike but I imagine the gearing will be too high for the real slow speed work I'm looking to do. Have even considered a KTM SX125 which is light weight but might be a bit too tall in the gears and the power spread would be all wrong?

Don't go the trail bike route if you want to learn trials, I sort of dabbled in that with the 200EXC and with my lack of skills was simply a recipe for entertaining others, sure, skilled tials riders can do wonderful things with trail bikes but it doesn't work the other way round, get a trials bike. The best thing you can do is get in touch with any local club, you need a venue and other enthusiasts to learn trials, it's too hard at (our) age to do it on your own, community helps.

Go for it, it will be a great help for all other styles of riding.... watching Chris Birch punt his 950 over a 1.5m diameter log was truly awe inspiring ( I tried to copy him on the 640.... best described as embarassing!)

[Night Falcon]

Don't go the trail bike route if you want to learn trials, I sort of dabbled in that with the 200EXC and with my lack of skills was simply a recipe for entertaining others, sure, skilled tials riders can do wonderful things with trail bikes but it doesn't work the other way round, get a trials bike. The best thing you can do is get in touch with any local club, you need a venue and other enthusiasts to learn trials, it's too hard at (our) age to do it on your own, community helps.

Go for it, it will be a great help for all other styles of riding.... watching Chris Birch punt his 950 over a 1.5m diameter log was truly awe inspiring ( I tried to copy him on the 640.... best described as embarassing!)

Cheers wise council indeed! I was ready to pull the trigger on a 2XX trail bike but went and sat on few at some bike shops in the weekend and realised I'd been there done that....besides the 690 can do most of what they offer and its not that much heavier.

I've wanted to try trials riding for as long as I can remember so will take the advice of the forum and go see the local lads for some tips. A test ride on a trials bike would be awsome.

[pete-blen]

I was thinking of Peter Grinter


Peter Grinter owns the Kawasaki / Suzuki shop...
Brendon Wadsworth has the Nelson Malb trials centre...

[george formby]

. A test ride on a trials bike would be awsome.

And an eye opener, I guarantee it.
I learned to ride on trials bikes but never competed, TY's, Bultacos, Montessa Cota. All twin shockers owned by me dad. I was fresh off the nipple and they were the only bikes I could get a foot down on. Spent many a happy afternoon having a lie down after trying to pull away with no clutch control.
I wouldn't worry too much about engine capacity, age or brand. Find a "good" bike, ready to ride & loved. Do a bit of research on spares availability & ease of maintenance before your spend. A 125 2t will tie you in knots regardless of your, er, stature. Their MAY be an air cooled mono shock Fantic coming up for sale local to me. Has new brakes (brembo's), new tires, freshly powder coated frame, ew bearings etc & a load of stuff from the UK to bring it up to scratch. Even has Steve Colleys signature on it somewhere. The owner is trying to get new decals for it before he sells it. It has a cracking motor, started second kick after being ignored for nearly 3 months. The MAY part...the owner is up & down like a whores draws when it comes to selling & replacing his bikes. Mainly because he invests so much in them.
Hope you find a good bike & I look forward to your comments when you stop watching & try doing.... :innocent: :laugh:

Not being cheeky, I'm looking for trials bike too & slightly:shit:about actually doing the bizz on it.

[Night Falcon]

And an eye opener, I guarantee it.
I learned to ride on trials bikes but never competed, TY's, Bultacos, Montessa Cota. All twin shockers owned by me dad. I was fresh off the nipple and they were the only bikes I could get a foot down on. Spent many a happy afternoon having a lie down after trying to pull away with no clutch control.
I wouldn't worry too much about engine capacity, age or brand. Find a "good" bike, ready to ride & loved. Do a bit of research on spares availability & ease of maintenance before your spend. A 125 2t will tie you in knots regardless of your, er, stature. Their MAY be an air cooled mono shock Fantic coming up for sale local to me. Has new brakes (brembo's), new tires, freshly powder coated frame, ew bearings etc & a load of stuff from the UK to bring it up to scratch. Even has Steve Colleys signature on it somewhere. The owner is trying to get new decals for it before he sells it. It has a cracking motor, started second kick after being ignored for nearly 3 months. The MAY part...the owner is up & down like a whores draws when it comes to selling & replacing his bikes. Mainly because he invests so much in them.
Hope you find a good bike & I look forward to your comments when you stop watching & try doing.... :innocent: :laugh:

Not being cheeky, I'm looking for trials bike too & slightly:shit:about actually doing the bizz on it.

I'm ready to buy and ride...sooner the better. I predict a trials bike revival once my ride reports hit the interweb :scooter:

[Ocean1]

Their MAY be an air cooled mono shock Fantic coming up for sale local to me.

If that's a 305/307 I'll register my interest right now.

Doesn't have radial finz, perchance?

[george formby]

[QUOTE=george formby;1130494414] Their MAY be an air cooled mono shock Fantic coming up for sale local to me.[QUOTE]

If that's a 305/307 I'll register my interest right now.

Doesn't have radial finz, perchance?

If my mate is serious, no doubt he will ask me to post it here. He's a bit glacial making decisions. I'm trying to lead him towards a KTM Freeride, purely mercenary motives.

[F5 Dave]

. . .
The 2-3K price range is about my budget but would spend more for the right bike. I'd like something post 2000 and preferably 4 stroke. I've looked at 250 trail bike but I imagine the gearing will be too high for the real slow speed work I'm looking to do. . . .

ok here is my biased but searingly insightfull advice;

Trials bikes are almost like dirt bikes, old ones will require a heap of work & never be as good as something newer. You would be surprised at the difference between a pre 2000 & early 2000 bikes & again from say 2008 etc.

the slightly old ones hold their value but that is where I would look, over 5k. No chance of a 4 stroke, waste of time.

I went down the route of buying an old Beta 10 years ago & it was trouble. I spent time & money on it but I'm competent with a spanner. (It still goes to this day with a mate in possession.

Not because of the brand I'd happily buy a newer Beta. I then bought a GasGas 200 '00 & it was quantums better. Latter bikes I rode made similar advances, but the 200 I would recomend to anyone medium size or smaller, very easy to ride. Beta & Scorpa were great to ride.

[Night Falcon]

There a 2 08 Betas on TM one 2 stroke and one 4 stroke. I think either will fit the bill for what I'm looking for but which way to go? Pros and cons?

[F5 Dave]

Never any question in my mind. Why would anyone want a 4 stroke? Hmm maybe that is a question, but I'd buy the 2 stroke. 4s were brought in to appease emissions issues. 2s are easier to rebuild, lighter, more reliable & don't sound so dreadful.

[Night Falcon]

Never any question in my mind. Why would anyone want a 4 stroke? Hmm maybe that is a question, but I'd buy the 2 stroke. 4s were brought in to appease emissions issues. 2s are easier to rebuild, lighter, more reliable & don't sound so dreadful.

Thanks Dave, my preference for trail/adv riding is 4 stroke but realise I know zip about trials. What you say makes good horse sense to me. Couple more things to check out then it's time to pull the trigger :banana:

[Motu]

Modern trials bikes are a bit different to what I'm used to, but you need a 2 stroke, a 4 stroke isn't a starters bike. A 2 stroke trials bike takes advantage of the lack of engine braking, the engine braking of a 4 stroke is a big disadvantage. Throttle off and they stop.....!!!! , bugger. Weight goes on the front wheel....bugger. But they have traction, that's their good point. I've had a TLR200 Honda for about 12 years, although haven't ridden much the last couple of years. I like it because it needs an aggressive approach, although at my age I should be riding something that makes it easy for me, not extra work.

[Ocean1]

Why would anyone want a 4 stroke?

I'd buy the 4T, but I wouldn't be competing, I reckon it's a better trail/play bike. Be better still if you could get a longride kit.

[Night Falcon]

I'd buy the 4T, but I wouldn't be competing, I reckon it's a better trail/play bike. Be better still if you could get a longride kit.

Emailed the nz beta importer about the LR seat/tank combo, havn't herd back from them yet but definately want one. I'm looking at building it into a trials/adventure bike so no competiton stuff. sort of freeride styled but 1/2 the pruchase price and running costs. Not interested in speed; keeping it light and nimble with buckets of torque is my goal.

I'm sure either 4 or 2 stroke will be fine. don't mind sacrifing some weight for better reliability less maintenance. The problem is all the reviews are based on the bikes being used for trials competiton (go figure) so I'm not sure which is the best engine for my intended use....maybe the things that make a 4 stroke a poorer trials engine will make it a better tirals adventure bike?

[Shorty_925]

don't sound so dreadful.

Agree Dave, has to be one of the worse sounding motorcycles ever.

[Ocean1]

Emailed the nz beta importer about the LR seat/tank combo, havn't herd back from them yet but definately want one. I'm looking at building it into a trials/adventure bike so no competiton stuff. sort of freeride styled but 1/2 the pruchase price and running costs. Not interested in speed; keeping it light and nimble with buckets of torque is my goal.

I'm sure either 4 or 2 stroke will be fine. don't mind sacrifing some weight for better reliability less maintenance. The problem is all the reviews are based on the bikes being used for trials competiton (go figure) so I'm not sure which is the best engine for my intended use....maybe the things that make a 4 stroke a poorer trials engine will make it a better tirals adventure bike?

Did you track down an event, or talk to some local riders? It's very difficult to explain the difference but it's a large one, requires quite a different approach. 2 min on each would probably make the choice pretty obvious for you. Suggest you give John a ring to talk about those particular models, he'll give you the lowdown on care and feeding, and parts availability for the 4T, (the 2T won't be a problem).

Oh, neither will really compare with a freeride, but either will trailride OK, as long as you carry spare gas and don't flog them. Wouldn't be too hard to make a LR seat/tank either...

[ktm84mxc]

Sounds like you need a GasGas Pampera a Trials style bike with a larger tank and comfortable seat , it's a modern style TY.

[F5 Dave]

E. . .don't mind sacrifing some weight for better reliability less maintenance. . . .
Likely the wrong way around,. As with most modern 4 strokes the need to reduce weight & get power from revs has meant a plumet in reliability. Now I will put my hand up & say I haven't kept up with latest Trials but I'd place money on the 2 strokes being stone axe reliable & the 4s a bit dogey.

But give John (beta) a call on a telephone thing (after dinner, he has a day job) & he'll steer you right & talk the legs off you.


As for long ride, those tiny 3l tanks will last for ages, we've gone quite extensively into the Mungas & never hinted at running out. Have taken 1L camping ally flasks strapped on before, but never needed.

[Eddieb]

If you get one I could be keen on a trails trip through the 42nd or up Thompsons track at Te Aroha one day, it could be a laugh. I got a '94 ish Beta Techno 2t and although I've only ridden it a few times so far it's a barrel of fun.

[Night Falcon]

If you get one I could be keen on a trails trip through the 42nd or up Thompsons track at Te Aroha one day, it could be a laugh. I got a '94 ish Beta Techno 2t and although I've only ridden it a few times so far it's a barrel of fun.

perfect country for what i'm looking to do, might have to take ya up on that. I've watched a few videos of trials andventure style riding...those suckers can go almost anywhere plus it looked liked they were having a real blast. The attraction for me is high fun and lower injury risk; its a completely new (to me) style of riding that I could see taking off with lots of older riders (especially partially damaged ones). Should make for some interesting gopro footage fiquering out how to ride em!

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/bz6hrzh5euU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Katoomer]

I'm looking at getting into trials too. All good advice .Have talked to a few guys about 2 v 4 stroke. They all love their bikes either 2 or 4 stroke. The hours some of the bikes had done were huge. A Montesa 250 4 stroke with over 800 hrs on it with only a piston change done at 700hrs . A bit different to MX bikes.

Hope you don't have the trouble this guy had finding a bike

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=mzcS_OGovCg

[Eddieb]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/bz6hrzh5euU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Yeha that looks like a bit of me

[F5 Dave]

I hate you guys.




one day I'll have the money again.

[Eddieb]

Don't you still have a GasGas?

[F5 Dave]

I sold one of my GGs, the TXT trials, but still have An EC which is the enduro.

oh so you off to the Tron?

[Eddieb]

I sold one of my GGs, the TXT trials, but still have An EC which is the enduro.

oh so you off to the Tron?

I am, family stuff going on up there means I need to move up there for a few years.

[Night Falcon]

I'm looking at getting into trials too. All good advice .Have talked to a few guys about 2 v 4 stroke. They all love their bikes either 2 or 4 stroke. The hours some of the bikes had done were huge. A Montesa 250 4 stroke with over 800 hrs on it with only a piston change done at 700hrs . A bit different to MX bikes.

Hope you don't have the trouble this guy had finding a bike

Haw haw haw. Have found the bike I want and made an offer, just waiting to hear back from the owner. Hopefully its a goer. Hear is a photo shop of what I'm trying to acheive. Should weigh in at under 80kgs and have trials bike handling with trail bike comfort and heaps of range, plus i rekcon it will look waaaaaay cool!

280174

[NordieBoy]

Yeha that looks like a bit of me

That's what I'm really starting to enjoy doing on the TT...

But it's taller and 115kg...

Got trials tyres though. Almost as good as 705's :cool:

[Night Falcon]

I'm now offically a trials bike owner. thanks to everyone for the tips, you guys are real swell :2thumbsup

I'm hoping to have it delivered in time for a little excursion to Wiaroa next weekend. I expect i'm in for a bit of learning curve but should be a lot of fun learning new ways to fall off a motorcycle :facepalm:

Oh and for those interested heres a shot:




Cheers
NF

[NordieBoy]

It's just an old beater....


:dodge:

[Ocean1]

Looks mint, don't get it too dirty.

[Night Falcon]

It's just an old beater....


:dodge:

beater than nothing :shifty:

[Eddieb]

Nice, what is it exactly?

[NordieBoy]

Nice, what is it exactly?

Looks like a 2008 Beta Rev 3...

The guy is also selling an almost new Michelin Trials Light rear tyre for $120

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/parts-for-sale/tyres/auction-575556403.htm

[DR Girl]

I'm now offically a trials bike owner. thanks to everyone for the tips, you guys are real swell :2thumbsup

I'm hoping to have it delivered in time for a little excursion to Wiaroa next weekend. I expect i'm in for a bit of learning curve but should be a lot of fun learning new ways to fall off a motorcycle :facepalm:

Oh and for those interested heres a shot:




Cheers
NF

COOOOOL:woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:

Well done. Can't wait to see you on it next Sat. Would you like to throw that wee thing on our trailer ???? We have a large trailer with good tie down points. Have had on it my DR200, a XR200, a MX bike (RM250 ? ) & a XR100. Just my 200 & Ross's 250.

[george formby]

Congrats Night Falcon.

I'm keen as mustard to here how you go on the new bike. Will do wonders for your glutes & thighs.....

Keep the thread going with up dates pleeeeeeease.

[F5 Dave]

I'm now offically a trials bike owner. thanks to everyone for the tips, you guys are real swell :2thumbsup

I'm hoping to have it delivered in time for a little excursion to Wiaroa next weekend. I expect i'm in for a bit of learning curve but should be a lot of fun learning new ways to fall off a motorcycle :facepalm:

Oh and for those interested heres a shot:

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=280501&d=1364442949


Cheers
NF
hey you've been ripped off, there's no kickstarter;)

[Night Falcon]

Looks like a 2008 Beta Rev 3...

thats correct 250 two smoke....reliable handy we bike by all accounts, guess I'll find out though!


Congrats Night Falcon.

I'm keen as mustard to here how you go on the new bike. Will do wonders for your glutes & thighs.....

Keep the thread going with up dates pleeeeeeease.

will be my pleasure....I hope. Am taking her for its maiden (to me) voyage this weekend with gopro...watch this space


hey you've been ripped off, there's no kickstarter;)

these trials bikes are all wrong arn't they? kick starter and chain on the wrong sides, no seat, no tank, funny tires; why would anyone bother with them???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh1pSbu4a5g

[F5 Dave]

Yeah my old Beta aircooled was the same but with the added advantage of being a pig to kick over (GGs are RHS kicker but RH kickstand, had to be something odd). I've ridden later Betas & they start fine & are great bikes. Think you've made a good choice.

Just don't go putting 12psi in the tyres.

[Ocean1]

Just don't go putting 12psi in the tyres.

Never had them new fangled tubeless tyres, what'd ya reckon, about 8 for trail riding?

[F5 Dave]

3




. . . . . . .

[Ocean1]

3




. . . . . . .

Shit, I never went under 4 in competition.

[F5 Dave]

Depends what you call trail riding I guess, but I tended to ride short distances to places i'd ride & just run what I needed with no drama.

A mate was talking of using 2 & 1/2, heck I dunno I'm not an expert on latest tyres but 3 rear & 4 front worked fine for a knock around bike.

[Night Falcon]

Depends what you call trail riding I guess, but I tended to ride short distances to places i'd ride & just run what I needed with no drama.

A mate was talking of using 2 & 1/2, heck I dunno I'm not an expert on latest tyres but 3 rear & 4 front worked fine for a knock around bike.

:gob: it just don't seem right to run a tire at anything less that 18psi...got to find a way to change my mind set from trail to trial :wacko:

[NordieBoy]

:gob: it just don't seem right to run a tire at anything less that 18psi...got to find a way to change my mind set from trail to trial :wacko:

I get the shakes and sweats letting the MT43's down to 12f/8r on the 120kg TT350.

Shinko 705's (quite a bit lower profile than the MT43's) on the TT get let down to 14f/12r in the gnarly stuff.
On the DR, they get let down to 20f/18r.

[Motu]

I use 4 if traction is good, 3 if I'm looking for traction. If it's just trail riding it's whatever suits you - start at 8. But what's the point, you have a trials bike, use it as such.

[Ocean1]

Depends what you call trail riding I guess, but I tended to ride short distances to places i'd ride & just run what I needed with no drama.

A mate was talking of using 2 & 1/2, heck I dunno I'm not an expert on latest tyres but 3 rear & 4 front worked fine for a knock around bike.

I was thinking Maungatuks, slime and sharp rocks, I've trashed a Michelin and a brand new IRC pissing around up there so I'm probably a bit conservative.


I get the shakes and sweats letting the MT43's down to 12f/8r on the 120kg TT350.

Shinko 705's (quite a bit lower profile than the MT43's) on the TT get let down to 14f/12r in the gnarly stuff.
On the DR, they get let down to 20f/18r.

Have heard of them MT43s, are road legal?! Must have a much stiffer sidewall than a Michelin Comp rear, I'd roll the tyre off the rim cornering at anything like road speeds.

And that R3 Beta is about half the weight of the TT, makes a huge difference.

[NordieBoy]

Have heard of them MT43s, are road legal?! Must have a much stiffer sidewall than a Michelin Comp rear, I'd roll the tyre off the rim cornering at anything like road speeds.

And that R3 Beta is about half the weight of the TT, makes a huge difference.

Yep, road legal. Stiff sidewall and very high profile. As in 5cm taller than the 100/100 knobbly that was on it. Equal to 1 tooth on the front. Had to add 2 links to the chain to get it away from the front of the swingarm.

First trials rear I played with was an 803 that was a bit... dodgy... when cornering...

Next rear is going to be a lower profile road legal Mitas trials. They do 2 different ones and at a good price too.

[Ocean1]

Yep, road legal. Stiff sidewall and very high profile. As in 5cm taller than the 100/100 knobbly that was on it. Equal to 1 tooth on the front. Had to add 2 links to the chain to get it away from the front of the swingarm.

Sounds like what used to be called a trials universal. Perhaps in an ideal world not made from pertified chewing gum.


First trials rear I played with was an 803 that was a bit... dodgy... when cornering...

Same. S'not as if I need help with dodgy from a tyre, either.

Guess it's difficult to make a tyre that doesn't fold under at a brisk trot and still does this:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/UythUroeHbQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Motu]

The MT43 is not a trials universal, just slightly stiffer sidewalls and harder compound, but still in the spirit of comp trials tyre. IRC do a DOT of their comp tyre too. They used to use comp trials tyres for flattrack in NZ, still do in OZ, running somewhere between 8 and 12psi - I've used these things on a dirttrack, there is superb grip and crazy lean angles...you can push these tyres way beyond what you think is sane. I used to use comp trials tyres on the road, being young and living all facets of life over the edge, I found the trials tyres could be pushed to wheelspin and sideways on the seal with total confidence.

Aussies using trials tyres on the rear, we used them fron and rear in NZ - rear on the front. Remember, this is where Casey started.

280897

[Ocean1]

The MT43 is not a trials universal, just slightly stiffer sidewalls and harder compound, but still in the spirit of comp trials tyre. IRC do a DOT of their comp tyre too. They used to use comp trials tyres for flattrack in NZ, still do in OZ, running somewhere between 8 and 12psi - I've used these things on a dirttrack, there is superb grip and crazy lean angles...you can push these tyres way beyond what you think is sane. I used to use comp trials tyres on the road, being young and living all facets of life over the edge, I found the trials tyres could be pushed to wheelspin and sideways on the seal with total confidence.

A friend used Mich trials Comp Xply tyres on the his road legal EXC 400 until quite recently, same compounds as the radial and apparently they're still available. He was forever pissing around with pressures, though.

[Night Falcon]

picking up the bike on Friday and will be riding it on some pretty rugged farm land on Saturday with a bunch of chook chasers. The PO said the bike comes with its own tire guage - fancy that - so will get the opportunity to try out varying degrees of pressure. Think I'll start with 8 and see how she goes? Not likely to be taking on to harder obsticles on my first outing (as there will be too many cameras watching :facepalm:) it will mostly be "trial" and error getting it sorted....probably more error than trial :laugh:

[NordieBoy]

Yep, you want a gauge that's accurate at the lower pressures.

Tubeless or tubed?

[Night Falcon]

Yep, you want a gauge that's accurate at the lower pressures.

Tubeless or tubed?

less...which I understand is more :scratch: suppose they will have rim locks as standard? have to wouldn't they at those pressures, if you can call 4psi pressure!

[Ocean1]

less...which I understand is more :scratch: suppose they will have rim locks as standard? have to wouldn't they at those pressures, if you can call 4psi pressure!

No rim locks, they'd leak. They're just fucking tight on the beads, and the rims are sometimes knurled.

Edit: And the rim bead profile is different, the beads sit in a slight depression to prevent them collapsing inwards. Makes for a bitch of a job changing tyres in my limited experience.

[NordieBoy]

Edit: And the rim bead profile is different, the beads sit in a slight depression to prevent them collapsing inwards. Makes for a bitch of a job changing tyres in my limited experience.

I can't get them to seat properly on the TT rims.

The DR has the depressing depression on the rear rim too.

[Ocean1]

I can't get them to seat properly on the TT rims.

The DR has the depressing depression on the rear rim too.

I recall someone saying the tubes/tubeless trials tyre bead details are suficiently different that the two systems theoretically wern't interchangeable. Be nice to know from the source.

[F5 Dave]

Be conservative, run em at 4 (with a decent gauge), can always try lower later. Seriously you want them to work like they are designed to, might as well have some traction to burn, esp if you want to try going up or down some banks & surprise yourself with how much grip you can get.

I run my dirtbikes on 12psi (currently Mich S12s) only in very rocky conditions, mostly 10 or down to 8 if the track is slick & there isn't many rocks to give you compression punctures & obviously you pay for some decent thick as a Russian condom, tubes. But that is on a real dirtbike, not some heavy 4 stroke chuffer.:yes:

[Night Falcon]

Picked her up today looks even better in the flesh! The hand book says front tyre is tube and rear is tubless. recommended pressures are 5 front 4 rear PO ran it at 4 front 3 rear. its gonna take some getting used to riding a bike with flat tires :weird:

Went for a quick ride when i picked it up. was a bit strange taking off in first not having a seat to sit on but the gearing was just what I was looking/hoping for, turns on a dime and 72kg ringing wet :banana:


test ride at wairoa cancelled due to too wet....oh well least te farmers will be happy I spose!

[F5 Dave]

you'll get used to that quick. gear lever is out of the way so you set a gear for a section, but again you get used to it.

[Night Falcon]

first practice training....I'm hooked already and so are a few others I think!

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[ktm84mxc]

Epic now build a few seesaws and log piles and roll over dat Subaru , mono's and stopies next . 2lt of go juice goes a long way in a trials bike.

[Eddieb]

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[Night Falcon]

Went for a bit of a play this afternoon, had a couple of hickups but luckily not caught on film....bent clutch lever after attempting a steep climb :facepalm: and drowned it in a river :doh: still learning how light these bikes are and how this lack of weight can work against you in a swift current :brick: should be fine once I've flushed out the now pink oil from the crank, wrung out the air cleaner and cleaned out the carb....on the positive side atleast everything is easy to get at :cool:

Heres a few clips of the more sedate stuff

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[Motu]

You did a wheelie !!! I always wonder why road riders make such a big deal of it. Attack those banks a lot harder, use the momentum and flywheels to take you over the top.

[Night Falcon]

You did a wheelie !!! I always wonder why road riders make such a big deal of it. Attack those banks a lot harder, use the momentum and flywheels to take you over the top.

Thanks for the tip. am used to giving it death to get a 150kg 650 dual sport up steep hills but usually have a bit more run up. Lame wheelies are the only thing I can do to show off :facepalm:

[ktm84mxc]

You'll find body language and position will play a part in making the ride easier , most trials riders can bunny hop like a BMX/skateboarder so get practicing over kerbs etc.
had a mate who would wheelie his TL125 the length of Muriwai beach at low tide did it standing by weight transfer.

[Night Falcon]

Changed the oil and flushed the crank out with kero, put it all back together and new oil. started up fine but has a rattle coming fom the engine :gob: thought it might be the clutch so pulled it out and cleaned it up and put back together. took carb off and cleaned it out. Exhast still had some water in it but I think it's from the muffler packing. so will replace that. The air box took some removing as 2 of the screws were rusted tight so had to drill them out to remove it :angry2:. will be doing a mod to make sure that dosn't happen again!

I can't beleive there is anything serious gone wrong in the motor and don't think it has hydrauliced the engine? Anyway, wont know till the air box is fixed and shes all back together. The rattle sounds like shaking a stone in tin cup so don't know what thats about?? Once I get it back togheter I'll see if the clutch clean fixed the problem....other than that it migh be a trip to the shop. Any one have any ideas to ease my worried mind?

[NordieBoy]

Can you hydraulic a 2 stroke?

[gwynfryn]

If the gearbox had water in it the oil would go milky, i guess some water could come in through a breather hose . Are you sure its not pink because its automatic trans fluid.
How did you flush out the crankcase ? Did you tip it upside down?
Sure you are not getting the 2st 4st thing mixed up?

[ktm84mxc]

Yes you can hydraulic a 2 smoke have seen it on a PW80 when little Jonny filled the engine while washing it, kick start wouldn't move . Ask a jet ski mechanic about bent conrods and twisted/smashed pistons from drowned engines.
Have used ATF in my VMX KTM and the only way it would turn pink is with water, either through the breather or leaking water pump seal.

[Night Falcon]

If the gearbox had water in it the oil would go milky, i guess some water could come in through a breather hose . Are you sure its not pink because its automatic trans fluid.
How did you flush out the crankcase ? Did you tip it upside down?
Sure you are not getting the 2st 4st thing mixed up?

The replaced oil turned pink also so that explains it so maybe thats ok. Didn't tip it upside down, just put the bung in and put 1/2 ltr of kero in it, took plug out and kicked it over a few times, left it for 10mins and drained. seemed to clear it out ok. there was a small amount of metal filings on the magnetic sump plug but thats not uncommon..... but then could be something or nothing?




Yes you can hydraulic a 2 smoke have seen it on a PW80 when little Jonny filled the engine while washing it, kick start wouldn't move . Ask a jet ski mechanic about bent conrods and twisted/smashed pistons from drowned engines.
Have used ATF in my VMX KTM and the only way it would turn pink is with water, either through the breather or leaking water pump seal.

I imagine if the engine had hydro'd it would be pretty apparant? It starts ok though just has this rattle sound? Its pretty easy bike to work on so am going over every nut and bolt to check tightness...and some were quite loose. Thought it might be a stone trapped between the alloy sump guard and engine but couldn't find anything.

[gwynfryn]

You are not flushing out the crankcase then, just the gearbox.

[Night Falcon]

You are not flushing out the crankcase then, just the gearbox.

cleaned out the crank tonight aided by a mate who was quite a good mechanic back in the day, even learnt a few tricks and got refresher course in 2T mechanics. put her back toghether and started 2nd kick :blip:. the rattle was still there but seemed to run fine. We had a good listen to the all parts of the engine using the tried and proven "screw driver stethoscope" method and couldn't find any obvious problems. My mate reckons it sounds like a normal rattly 2 smoker but I'm still not convinced theres not something amiss. Any way will test her out in the weekend; if she stops suddenly I'll know I was right :pinch:

[ktm84mxc]

Had a similar noise on my VMX KTM the rattle would rise when the engine was revved , turned out to be the needle bearing on the crank . It would start and run ok just an annoying rattle, was glad to find it in time the head was pock marked but ok a new piston and conrod kit good to go.

[Night Falcon]

Had a similar noise on my VMX KTM the rattle would rise when the engine was revved , turned out to be the needle bearing on the crank . It would start and run ok just an annoying rattle, was glad to find it in time the head was pock marked but ok a new piston and conrod kit good to go.

Yeah I reckon you might just have called it. Funny how your mind starts playing tricks trying to remember if it always sounded like that or not.....but I think definaetly not. On the plus side I almost enjoy working on it more than riding it so all good in the hood.....gasget set and new bearing and shes good to go!

Thanks for your comments

[Night Falcon]

Found the cause of my rattle, both main crank bearings are poked! Seems they are EXTREMELY sensative to any contact with moisture. Also discovered two fangs missing of the main gear next to the kick starter but managed to recover both wanderers.

My guess is the water in the crank case has hydroliced the engine forcing the teeth to sheer of the starter gear (weakest link) whilst being kicked in the guts by my size 10 alpine stars <_<

anywho...reasonably fun day in the garage pulling it to bits and straight forward to fix. Although there was zero play in the conrod bearings and barrel is fine I will replace both bearings, piston and rings while I'm at it.

[Ocean1]

Found the cause of my rattle, both main crank bearings are poked! Seems they are EXTREMELY sensative to any contact with moisture. Also discovered two fangs missing of the main gear next to the kick starter but managed to recover both wanderers.

My guess is the water in the crank case has hydroliced the engine forcing the teeth to sheer of the starter gear (weakest link) whilst being kicked in the guts by my size 10 alpine stars <_<

anywho...reasonably fun day in the garage pulling it to bits and straight forward to fix. Although there was zero play in the conrod bearings and barrel is fine I will replace both bearings, piston and rings while I'm at it.

I'm not sure that it's very likely you hydraulic'd it while kicking it.

Still, now you'll know it's right, eh?

[F5 Dave]

golly, heat treating must have been naff. Never ever seen teeth broken off gears like that.

C3 clearance on main bearings. heat cases to get them out, freezer bearings to get them in.

[Night Falcon]

I'm not sure that it's very likely you hydraulic'd it while kicking it.

Still, now you'll know it's right, eh?

yup, not too worried as least I now have a clean slate in terms of where the engine is at.


golly, heat treating must have been naff. Never ever seen teeth broken off gears like that.

C3 clearance on main bearings. heat cases to get them out, freezer bearings to get them in.

judging by the wear on the bearings and conrod I'm thinking this isn't the first time this bike has been immersed in H2o over its aledged 160hr life span <_<

[NordieBoy]

160 hrs?

Should be due for a cam chain and rings by now...

[pete-blen]

take the number off the bearings , looking at them it should be "62XX or 63XX"..Go get a couple of FAG bearings... NTN are middle of the road in quality...

[Sidey]

:gob: it just don't seem right to run a tire at anything less that 18psi...got to find a way to change my mind set from trail to trial :wacko:

The guy who always wins the President grade in North Island Champs runs a mousse in his rear and less than 1 psi. For mousseless types, 3 rear and 4 front is correct, put it up 1 psi for trailriding or 2 psi if you're going to go hard over rocky ground. You can go down to 2 psi rear for really muddy slippery conditions. I've been riding competition trials for 35 years, so this is good advice.

I think that's an 07 Rev-3. In the UK it's pronounced "better" because the importer won't use any other pronounciation, but in Italian it's "Bater" which isn't used much in English speaking countries except by Gasgas and Sherco riders.

Anyway, the 07 had the Mikuni carb, and came jetted a bit rich standard. Go to the TrialsAustralia webpage to get instructions on how to modify the carb to stop it leaking fuel all over the place. Set the float level a wee bit low too. Run an NGK 5 series plug, or 6 for harder trailriding. If you're just going to potter around on low throttle all day you can go to a 4 series. Yes, I know that's really warm, but it will make the bike run cleaner and you won't get overheating or "hole in the piston" problems if you do need to run it hard up a hill for a while. Run the gearbox and ignition breather tubes up under the tank or into the air cleaner area so they don't suck water in when you go into creeks.

Judging by your photo the bars are set a bit forward, this will make the front end heavier but pull your posture forward. You need to keep your spine vertical, and as soon as you start jumping over stuff or needing serious traction you'll be wanting a light front end anyway.

I hope you enjoy your trials bike as much as I've enjoyed the ten I've had!

Sidey.

[F5 Dave]

. . .. I've been riding competition trials for 35 years, so this is good advice.. . ..
I dunno, you sound kinda old.

Anyway Welcome to KB Mark, just as a heads up don't take much serious here, but good to have you here.

[Night Falcon]

The guy who always wins the President grade in North Island Champs runs a mousse in his rear and less than 1 psi. For mousseless types, 3 rear and 4 front is correct, put it up 1 psi for trailriding or 2 psi if you're going to go hard over rocky ground. You can go down to 2 psi rear for really muddy slippery conditions. I've been riding competition trials for 35 years, so this is good advice.

I think that's an 07 Rev-3. In the UK it's pronounced "better" because the importer won't use any other pronounciation, but in Italian it's "Bater" which isn't used much in English speaking countries except by Gasgas and Sherco riders.

Anyway, the 07 had the Mikuni carb, and came jetted a bit rich standard. Go to the TrialsAustralia webpage to get instructions on how to modify the carb to stop it leaking fuel all over the place. Set the float level a wee bit low too. Run an NGK 5 series plug, or 6 for harder trailriding. If you're just going to potter around on low throttle all day you can go to a 4 series. Yes, I know that's really warm, but it will make the bike run cleaner and you won't get overheating or "hole in the piston" problems if you do need to run it hard up a hill for a while. Run the gearbox and ignition breather tubes up under the tank or into the air cleaner area so they don't suck water in when you go into creeks.

Judging by your photo the bars are set a bit forward, this will make the front end heavier but pull your posture forward. You need to keep your spine vertical, and as soon as you start jumping over stuff or needing serious traction you'll be wanting a light front end anyway.

I hope you enjoy your trials bike as much as I've enjoyed the ten I've had!

Sidey.

Thanks for the tips Sidey :niceone: some really good advice in there. I have the engine in bits at the moment waiting for some new parts to arrive so In the mean time have been busy greasing and cleaning up the frame. Plan to fit a longrange tank/seat on it, barkbusters (already bent the clutch lever are a minor splill <_<) and will refit the head light.

You are right about the bars being too far forward, it feels way to heavy in the front especially for a learner trials rider so will be playing with the set up a bit. Might even fit some bar risers on it to make it a bit more comfy while standing.

Probably committing trials bike murder with my plans for her, but I think once I'm finished setting it up she will be a great trial adeventure machine! :yes: these things can go anywhere and I already have a new respect for trials riders skill sets!

thanks again for your advice and welcome to the forum

Love this bike, should have got one years ago, but better late than never.

[Sidey]

No worries mate.

The gearbox oil was probably ATF, plenty of trials riders use it to make the clutch grip better (Beta?). That's why it was pink, or red maybe. Perhaps you did have a little water in there, but now you rerouted the breather that's a thing of the past, right? The engine only has the oil you put into the petrol in it. To avoid hydraulic-ing the bike next time you drown it, push the kickstart really gently when you first restart. If it turns you're probably OK but give it a few gentle kicks before really prodding it. If it locks, get the spark plug out. If water comes out when you kick it, turn the bike upside down to drain the water. Fortunately they don't weigh too much! Turn the gas off, put it in 4th gear and turn the back wheel to get the engine turning over, the water will all come out. You need to clean the plug to get it to spark, so you have to take it out anyway. While it is upside-down the carb will drain too!

I'm sorry to hear about your bearing hassle. You've probably got it fixed by now but here's a few words of "wisdom" if you have the time!

I put SKF "E2" bearings in my old Rev-3, I had a 2008. That was the year they got the Keihin carb, makes a big difference. Anyway, the bearings are a low-friction alternative to standard ones. While I was in there I ported it a bit as well so maybe the results were not valid, but by crikey it went well after that. Smoother and torqueyer than a 270. Main bearings are the usual thing to replace in trials bikes, and usually after a drowning. You can also get bearings with silicon nitride balls. I think it's nitride, maybe carbide. Anyway, not steel. Shouldn't be affected by water as much, but of course they'll be twice the price. I've never done a big end or a little end on any of my bikes, and some of them were old when I got them. You can forget anything you used to "know" about pistons and rings from enduro or MX two-strokes. As long as you're happy with the power just leave it alone! The engines make little power, the compression ratio is low, so there's not much stress. Rings should last at least 2 years even with the hardest use.

When you are ready you really should check out a trial. Beware: it can be addictive. They have really easy sections for noobies and if you ask everyone will tell you what you need to do to get up that bank or over that log. There's this guy called Warren in HB. The banks and logs he can do will make your eyes bulge like Jim Carrey's but you'll find he's ready to help anyone. If you get a different opinion about anything believe Warren! The contacts are: Paul Simmonds Ph 836 5282 Warren Laugesen Ph 844 5070 / 021 2213596

Happy riding! ... Sidey

[Night Falcon]

No worries mate.

The gearbox oil was probably ATF, plenty of trials riders use it to make the clutch grip better (Beta?). That's why it was pink, or red maybe. Perhaps you did have a little water in there, but now you rerouted the breather that's a thing of the past, right? The engine only has the oil you put into the petrol in it. To avoid hydraulic-ing the bike next time you drown it, push the kickstart really gently when you first restart. If it turns you're probably OK but give it a few gentle kicks before really prodding it. If it locks, get the spark plug out. If water comes out when you kick it, turn the bike upside down to drain the water. Fortunately they don't weigh too much! Turn the gas off, put it in 4th gear and turn the back wheel to get the engine turning over, the water will all come out. You need to clean the plug to get it to spark, so you have to take it out anyway. While it is upside-down the carb will drain too!

I'm sorry to hear about your bearing hassle. You've probably got it fixed by now but here's a few words of "wisdom" if you have the time!

I put SKF "E2" bearings in my old Rev-3, I had a 2008. That was the year they got the Keihin carb, makes a big difference. Anyway, the bearings are a low-friction alternative to standard ones. While I was in there I ported it a bit as well so maybe the results were not valid, but by crikey it went well after that. Smoother and torqueyer than a 270. Main bearings are the usual thing to replace in trials bikes, and usually after a drowning. You can also get bearings with silicon nitride balls. I think it's nitride, maybe carbide. Anyway, not steel. Shouldn't be affected by water as much, but of course they'll be twice the price. I've never done a big end or a little end on any of my bikes, and some of them were old when I got them. You can forget anything you used to "know" about pistons and rings from enduro or MX two-strokes. As long as you're happy with the power just leave it alone! The engines make little power, the compression ratio is low, so there's not much stress. Rings should last at least 2 years even with the hardest use.

When you are ready you really should check out a trial. Beware: it can be addictive. They have really easy sections for noobies and if you ask everyone will tell you what you need to do to get up that bank or over that log. There's this guy called Warren in HB. The banks and logs he can do will make your eyes bulge like Jim Carrey's but you'll find he's ready to help anyone. If you get a different opinion about anything believe Warren! The contacts are: Paul Simmonds Ph 836 5282 Warren Laugesen Ph 844 5070 / 021 2213596

Happy riding! ... Sidey

Havn't got her back together yet as still waiting for parts so will check out the bearing options. The bike is an 08 (at least that what the PO sold it as). It had heaps of power but ran a bit rough on full throatle so I think it was in need of some tweaking in the carb. shouldn't be too hard to sort once its back together. Might print out your de-drowning method and keep on the bike....in plastic bag!

cheers

[Sidey]

Havn't got her back together yet as still waiting for parts so will check out the bearing options. The bike is an 08 (at least that what the PO sold it as). It had heaps of power but ran a bit rough on full throatle so I think it was in need of some tweaking in the carb. shouldn't be too hard to sort once its back together. Might print out your de-drowning method and keep on the bike....in plastic bag!

cheers

You are lucky, the 08 is the last of the Rev-3 model, therefore the good Keihin carb. No mods required. The Keihin is very sensitive to float level though. Set it at an angle of around 30 degrees so that the weight of the float doesn't push down the needle on it's spring and give you a false reading. You probably need a leaner main jet, and if the bike doesn't respond to the mixture screw probably a leaner pilot as well. You know you have the right pilot when it runs best 2 turns out. Tuning the pilot is unheard of in Enduro and MX but makes a difference to a trials bike. It should pull 3rd gear uphill from walking pace without blubbering or hesitating!

Sidey.

[Ocean1]

It should pull 3rd gear uphill from walking pace without blubbering or hesitating!

Unlike the rider, eh Mark?

[Night Falcon]

Still waiting to hear back from the dealer on where the parts are at....but I souldn't be impatient, its only been 2 weeks :angry2: is Poor service an oxymoron?

[F5 Dave]

Dealer? You are surely dealing with John the importer (Kapiti MC)? If not give him a call in the evening, he works a day job & isn't the most PC savy, but a more dedicated person to the marque you will not find.

[NordieBoy]

You should be out there doing this soon...
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[Sidey]

Still waiting to hear back from the dealer on where the parts are at....but I souldn't be impatient, its only been 2 weeks :angry2: is Poor service an oxymoron?

Hi Falcon. It's true that John isn't good with email and you need to ring him. But also his wife's mother died about 8 weeks ago and he had to make a short-notice trip to the UK and last week his sister died so he's doing it a bit tough at the moment, could be a little more distracted than usual. Sidey.

[Night Falcon]

Dealer? You are surely dealing with John the importer (Kapiti MC)? If not give him a call in the evening, he works a day job & isn't the most PC savy, but a more dedicated person to the marque you will not find.


Hi Falcon. It's true that John isn't good with email and you need to ring him. But also his wife's mother died about 8 weeks ago and he had to make a short-notice trip to the UK and last week his sister died so he's doing it a bit tough at the moment, could be a little more distracted than usual. Sidey.

Thats terrible! I can wait..John has there are far more important things than a broken bike to deal with.



You should be out there doing this soon...

:gob: not me...tooo cold :cold: and way tooo steep for this trial noob :baby:

[Night Falcon]

All parts have arrived :niceone: Hopefully have her back together on Saturday....ride on Sunday! :banana::banana:

[Night Falcon]

Engine back together and bike almost!

[Night Falcon]

Got the Rev3 back together, started 3rd kick, engine sounds sweat, not even a hint of the freaky rattle sound it previously had! took it for a quick test spin up the street - noticeable power increase and smoother power delivery. Have a mate who is looking at buying one as well, maybe we could hook up with these guys for a ride :no:


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[Night Falcon]

Went out for first decent ride after the engine rebuild - very impressed at what these bikes are capable of but theres a lot to learn, like how to bounce them to change direction, just cant seem to get the hang of that?

283273283274

[DR Girl]

A matching pair. . . . they look so cute together :msn-wink::cool:
Give it another a couple months you will be surprised how much you advance. Especially when you have Jim to out bounce :lol:

[Night Falcon]

A matching pair. . . . they look so cute together :msn-wink::cool:
Give it another a couple months you will be surprised how much you advance. Especially when you have Jim to out bounce :lol:

not quite a matching pair...Jim's is a 4 300cc 4 smoker....way cool bike.

[Sidey]

Went out for first decent ride after the engine rebuild - very impressed at what these bikes are capable of but theres a lot to learn, like how to bounce them to change direction, just cant seem to get the hang of that?

283273283274

Hi Falcon. You gotta get used to steering with your feet. Yup, push the bike around with your feet so that you can stay centred and keep your death grip on the bars light. Try pulling 3rd gear or 4th gear wheelies and waggle the bike around in the air while the wheel is up there. Only little to start with :baby:or you'll spear yourself into the ground and the bike will leap on you! Then ride in a straight line on flat ground but crank her over as far as you can without turning. Both sides, and then waggling from side to side. These are the baby exercises but if you can't do them you should ask why before going on to something harder! I take it you're already finding kerbs, bits of four by two and logs to ride along in order to practice holding a straight line. Yeah, of course you are. Silly me! :killingme

For the "floating turn", to get all technical on you, find a grassy uphill, not too steep, and start making up then down turns, using the feet to crank her over. When you're sick of that, start doing it with the front wheel in the air. Not too high to start! Find the balance place where you can keep the turn going. At first the bike will probably want to straighten out, then as you mess with it it will go all over the place. Keep practicing till you gain control. You're learning to direct the bike with your "body english" and balance, not by rubbing the front wheel on the ground. This is really handy when the traction is crap. You won't tuck under or highside any more. And when your front wheel is in the air you get most traction because all the weight is on the rear. Max traction happens when you first pull the wheel up. The weight transfer means you have more than the combined weight of your bike and you pushing into the ground. That's how the guys in the videos make the bike jump up big stuff. They generate max traction then pop the clutch on a revving engine.

Then learn the front wheel bounce, just little to start, and without moving to the side. One skill at a time, isolated. Then combine to get more complex stuff. Use the knees. The reason the seat is gone is to increase your ability to use the knees. Push into the forks with front brake on, bend your knees deep and forward, then snap the knees back as the forks extend. Not right back, no need to bugger your knees! Lift up with the hands but don't make the typical noob mistake of thinking it's all done with the arms and shoulders! When you're getting it up consistently (as the actress said to the bishop) experiment with being a bit off centre when you do it. Again, try to push with the feet not the hands. You have to put a bit of side force into the pegs to make the bike go to the side. Obviously I hope, by now. But you can also offcentre yourself (hips, not shoulders) and then pull the bike over with your arms so that it's back underneath you when it touches down, in order not to have to press the tyre sideways. This is harder but can be done when there's no traction.

When you can hop to the side and do a floating turn you can bounce turn to your heart's content by combining the techniques! Instead of touching down after hopping you let the clutch out and float turn out of there. There is also a rebound turn where you hit a rock, tree, policeman :Police: etc with the front wheel and use the rebound to generate a floating turn. This one is useful on the trail, and generally you pull a wheelie before bouncing in order to generate the fork compression that you just did (above) by hopping. The less that you smash the obstacle the less risk. The more you smash the more dramatic is the change in direction that you can generate. Again, start small and use a big soft obstacle like a dirt bank. Many trials riders have stifled their riding by going out and trying to do big stuff and not practicing technique. I'm as guilty as most! :devil2:

I always end up writing an essay in here! I hope you don't mind, and that it is some help. I like doing it because it makes me think about what the heck I'm doing. There's quite good riding info on the trialsaustralia website too, especially the advanced stuff like japzaps and splatters that you shouldn't even know about yet. Unless you are 18 and have been trialling since you were 6 I'd recommend you don't even bother trying. I can tell you from bitter experience that it's hard to teach an old dog new tricks. The double blip is essential though.

Cheers ... Sidey

[Night Falcon]

thanks Sidey....I/we have been lurking on heaps of "how to" type threads including video's but still can't get it so yours/any advice is very welcomed :2thumbsup

Was practicing the 3,4,5th gear wheelies yesterday (much easier with the handle bars set back a bit) and doing figure 8's on the side of a steep bank, weaving the bike between trees in tight circles so doing alot of what you suggest. Of course I've been trying the 4x2 thingy (note to self go buy some 4x2) so no worries there. Don't stop the essays on my account; I need al the help I can get! Theres a lot more happening than meets the eye when you watch the pro's manuovre their bikes around...that is for real :scratch:

[george formby]

Re the "front wheel bounce".... I'm guessing this is using suspension & body weight combined with a skerrick of throttle to lift the front?

I'm spending time with my G/F teaching her the same techniques being discussed here, but she could not lift the front for toffee. Timing sucked. Then while watching Tony Bou & chewing a bowl full of nails she noticed that it's a "double bounce" to get the front wheel up. Was news to me, I've never really thought about it. But she's right. When you watch it being done their is a bend of the legs to get the suspension moving followed by the proper bounce & wheelie. We realised that Jas had been bouncing the bike & applying throttle but their was not enough momentum as the forks unloaded to lift the front, do a pre load or double bounce & up it comes.

Just an observation we made. I'm happy to be pilloried by those who know what they are talking about.

[Eddieb]

I got mine out for a play today, loads of fun but I need a better area to use it in. You might have competition for lame wheelies


http://youtu.be/lLz36vL3gkM

[Night Falcon]

I got mine out for a play today, loads of fun but I need a better area to use it in. You might have competition for lame wheelies

I think its a tie on the lame wheelie front, but cool looking bike. Hope to get out on mine tomorrow afternoon for some more practice time if the its not to wet. I feel like I'm improving a bit with every outing so the more I ride the better. These bikes are so addictive...driving to Auckland last weekend I kept looking at the country side and thinking that'd be good spot to take the Rev3 :facepalm:

[Motu]

Yeah, I'm always doing that in a car, everything thing I look at is a trials section. Best way to learn is to get out there and enter a trial, playing around by yourself you won't learn much. Having a section set out by someone else (a trials rider) gets you attempting stuff you wouldn't think you could manage, and seeing and talking to other riders you learn how to walk a section and plan your moves. A play rider will always be a play rider.

[george formby]

I got mine out for a play today, loads of fun but I need a better area to use it in. You might have competition for lame wheelies


I see that your washing line is inappropriately positioned. I have the same problem, it's at the top of some steps I want to ride. Damned inconsiderate.

[Night Falcon]

Yeah, I'm always doing that in a car, everything thing I look at is a trials section. Best way to learn is to get out there and enter a trial, playing around by yourself you won't learn much. Having a section set out by someone else (a trials rider) gets you attempting stuff you wouldn't think you could manage, and seeing and talking to other riders you learn how to walk a section and plan your moves. A play rider will always be a play rider.

Definitely on the cards to catch up with someone who knows how to ride these things....but as I don't want to look like a complete noob :facepalm: am keen to get as much time on it as I can. Had some fun today trying to hop over logs and just playing around

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[Sidey]

Definitely on the cards to catch up with someone who knows how to ride these things....but as I don't want to look like a complete noob :facepalm: am keen to get as much time on it as I can. Had some fun today trying to hop over logs and just playing around

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Hi Falcon. You and EddieB are playing in some huge areas! You both need to go to a trial to see what ordinary blokes can do with these things. Believe me, you will find someone there who rides much better than you and is prepared to spend their valuable time helping you for free. Just wander up to them and ask. Don't envy Eddie, his techno is the model before yours. Technos were pre-2000, Rev3's started in 2000 with the upside-down fork model that caused Dougie Lampkin to go to Honda. Yours is betta! If the clothesline is in the way, bounce off it! Cheese Wayne, trials riding is about obstacles!

That log: lift your front wheel a bit earlier, so that it lands on the log. Then give a second blip of throttle. When you get the timing right you will be amazed at the way it leaps over that thing! You can get Ryan Young instruction videos from Brendon Wadsitworth (Marlborough Trials Centre) in Blenheim (he's the Sherco dealer, so don't tell John that I put you onto him!) or from Paul Arnott in Sydney (the Hell Team). Ryan is a yank, and they haven't won a world champs since Schrieber in 1981 (their only world champ). But Ryan is no fool, in spite of the Tenessee accent. If you go to Brendon or Paul's sites you might find some other things that can be got. Just maybe. Especially Paul's. You can get Trial Magazine there, or just order it direct from England. Welcome to our world! Paul sent me a rear tyre in the post, coiled in three. Steve Armisted uses his frequent flyer gold status to take his whole bike to England, in HAND LUGGAGE! He buys tyres and chains and other replaceables over there, but you gotta admire his attitude.

Eddie: Your bike is jetted too rich (it goes blah-bla-blah-blah) and you are using too much two-stroke oil (by the end of your video it was getting hazy from all the oil in the air! We love the smell of that stuff but do your neighbours?). If it's a good quality synthetic oil you can mix it 75:1 or even a bit leaner. That's 15 ml per litre of gas. Or less. Don't be tempted to add a bit more. Watch the world champs on youtube again. Do you see their bikes smoking? No. They do have brand new rings and pistons, mind you. Check your float level. Then move the needle at least one notch leaner (move the clip towards the blunt end of the needle). See if it's better. The smoother it is, the better. If it is, go one more. Repeat until it stops getting better, then go back to the previous setting. I don't care if you think that getting the carb out or turned to the side enough to get the needle out is too hard or not. I just don't care. Do what I say. You will thank me later.

About the wheelies: Yes, it's a double trouble thing. Whenever you are watching Bou, Raga, Fajardo and company do anything, watch the KNEES. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There is nothing in trials (or enduro or motocross) that is worse by using use more leg suspension. You get 180mm of rear suspension travel, but even ancient specimens such as Sidey can generate 400mm of leg movement!!!! Bou's bike is better than yours for sure (way, way better, believe me!) but the reason Honda have the world champs is not that. It's because they can afford to buy Bou. Period. Check out the diameter of his thighs. They are made of spring steel. It's not done with the arms, it's done with the legs and the hips. Like dancing.

Teeheehee. So; you thought that because trials is slow that it's for softies and old people? Well it is, just depends on what level you want to go to.

Bye for now ... Sidey

[Night Falcon]

Hi Sidey

I'm pretty knackered after 1/2 hours hooning on the Rev3 so I guess I must be soft or just old or maybe both :laugh: Take on board what your saying about the knees but in my case its more like knee as one doesn't work as well as it use to...motorcycle accident-don't ask :facepalm:

The log hopping is certainly a challenge when you aren't use to it. My biggest problem is getting past my brains reluctance to charge at a large stationary object without picturing me flying over the bars followed closely by a 70kg two stroke motorcycle waiting to turn me into a bike stand <_<. I did manage to overcome this terror to brave a couple of attempts at a half meter diameter log with what I would call a reasonable degree of success (I didn't end up as the feared bike stand).

In my mind I saw the front wheel lifting enough to allow the rear wheel an unimpeded opportunity to grip the said log coinciding with a blip on the throttle gracefully elevating bike and rider up and over the deceased tree to the amazement and jealous on looks of my fellow noob trials riding buddy. The reality was somewhat less dignified as I came to a complete halt as the bash plate wacked the log and Newton's 1st law of gravity tried to squash the wee fellas against the fuel tank :sick:

Undeterred and with a voice now akin to a boy soprano I gave it another crack and did manage to acquit myself a little better and even managed to get over the log....in a fashion. My giving up at that point had nothing to do with Jimmy laughing his head off at my lack of technique but rather that sagely voice in my head reminding me that discretion might be the better part of valour.

I have no illusions that becoming anything like a half competent trials rider will be easy, but at the very least it will be a lot of fun trying....which at the end of the day is the entire point of my buying a trials bike!

cheers
NF

[Ocean1]

The reality was somewhat less dignified as I came to a complete halt as the bash plate wacked the log and Newton's 1st law of gravity tried to squash the wee fellas against the fuel tank :sick:


Double blip.

Blip one: flex knees and lift the front wheel onto the log.
Blip two: pump the legs as the front touches and immediately lift the bike again.

Not a good example, but you get the timing idea...

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Next week: Splatter!

[F5 Dave]

wrt to oil my GG didn't smoke once warm at 50:1, but part of it is old bikes have a lot of residue in the muffler system & will smoke like a down town prozzie even without oil in the gas. The more you trail ride I'd tend to more oil. Trial competition has a while to build up reserves while idling. Either way if you get the jetting closer it will help a heap.

Repack the muffler & remove the primary muffler most trials bikes seem to have & give it a session with a gas torch to burn out old residue.

[Eddieb]

Eddie: Your bike is jetted too rich (it goes blah-bla-blah-blah) and you are using too much two-stroke oil (by the end of your video it was getting hazy from all the oil in the air! We love the smell of that stuff but do your neighbours?). If it's a good quality synthetic oil you can mix it 75:1 or even a bit leaner. That's 15 ml per litre of gas. Or less. Don't be tempted to add a bit more. Watch the world champs on youtube again. Do you see their bikes smoking? No. They do have brand new rings and pistons, mind you. Check your float level. Then move the needle at least one notch leaner (move the clip towards the blunt end of the needle). See if it's better. The smoother it is, the better. If it is, go one more. Repeat until it stops getting better, then go back to the previous setting. I don't care if you think that getting the carb out or turned to the side enough to get the needle out is too hard or not. I just don't care. Do what I say. You will thank me later.


Cheers Sidey, I found out just after this that I had forgotten to push the choke in after it had warmed up, it ran way better after that and pretty much stopped smoking, I probably contributed more oil in the pipe though. The Techno is still running on the tank of gas that was in it when I bought it so I have no idea what mixture is in it. I haven't had much opportunity to ride it much.

[Night Falcon]

New tank and seat arrived today. Will hopefully get a chance to try it out on the weekend

[Night Falcon]

more fun at the river

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[DR Girl]

AWESUM !!! You go boys :woohoo::wings::Punk::wari:

[george formby]

Am is just lovin this thread. :woohoo:

Am is also jealosus. Gonna be a while yet before we get a trials bike.

[Eddieb]

New tank and seat arrived today. Will hopefully get a chance to try it out on the weekend

Nice! should I ask what that set you back? Wonder if there's one available for my bike. Got a link for yours?

[Night Falcon]

Nice! should I ask what that set you back? Wonder if there's one available for my bike. Got a link for yours?

Seat cost $564.00 incl GST and freight. Got it though NZ Trials who are the beta Agent. Took a couple of months to arrive from Italy. The quality aint that flash but easy enough to sort out the few minor hassle's. Works really well for me as it gives me a chance to rest my dodgy leg in between falling off :facepalm: Plus the extra fuel range will come in handy for adventure trials riding expeditions in the summer

http://www.nztrials.co.nz/?page_id=296

[Night Falcon]

Finally a dry weekend so out for some more practicing..


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6uAsc4XoAc

[Sidey]

[QUOTE=Night Falcon;1130602735]Finally a dry weekend so out for some more practicing..

Hi Falcon. I don't think I saw you at the Hawkes Bay North Island champs 27/28 July. The weather was nice, it was trials bike heaven!

[Night Falcon]

[QUOTE=Night Falcon;1130602735]Finally a dry weekend so out for some more practicing..

Hi Falcon. I don't think I saw you at the Hawkes Bay North Island champs 27/28 July. The weather was nice, it was trials bike heaven!

Yeah I was really hacked off bout missing that but had other commitments.